Model Boat Mayhem
The Shipyard ( Dry Dock ): Builds & Questions => Navy - Military - Battleships: => Topic started by: Yarpie on July 28, 2012, 08:41:27 pm
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Hi,
a colleague has decided to upgrade his 20 year old 1:72 scale battleship HMS BARHAM into a more suitable WWII display model of HMS RENOWN.
We had thought about the project nine months ago and reckoned it might just be feasible. We accepted that converting a battleship into a battlecruiser would be quite a challenge but nevertheless took up the cudgel last winter.
The project is currently 66% complete and we have diarised and photographed progress over the last nine months.
From the outset the conversion was quite a lot more complex than we anticipated but now that we are at the current stage, we reckon it will be a reasonable success.
Just want to know if there is any interest in following the progress of this conversion on this forum, and if so, we would be happy to share the conversion with you all. :-))
The images are of the model of BARHAM as she was last year, and of RENOWN as she appeared in 1942.
Please let us know of any interest and we'll get started.
Yarpie and Robbie.
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Well I'd like to see how you did it and how you get on ok2
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Hi Yarpie - it sounds like an interesting project and quite complicated - would like to see the metamorphasis on Mayhem -
would make a nice change from most of the standard warships we build.
Geoff
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I would love to see it.
Bob
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Yes please.
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i would love to see it too
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And it's a yes from me too.
Jimmy
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I'll make that deux points from Huyton :-))
Dave
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Yes please :-)) :-))
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Guys ..... thank you for your response. :-)) Especially the "groupies" from Huyton. O0
I'll take that as a "no" then. :embarrassed:
Well, our first consideration was to compare hull lengths and obviously a battlecruiser was longer than a battleship. Where each part of the hull joins (these models are 3 metres long) we faced a dilemma as to whether we would need to insert a distance piece of about 6" where the join is, or not.
HMS BARHAM's LOA was 640 feet which equals 106.7 inches represented in 1:72 scale. the hull was 116" long.
HMS RENOWN's LOA was 794 feet which equals 132.3 inches represented in 1:72 scale, 16" inches short.
The decision was made to accept the hull as it is and make the end product more or less 1:80 scale. This would fit in with the club's 1:72 WWII displays. Also, if the hull length was increased by 16" the whole perception of the model would change because the actual beam would not have changed.
We, (Robbie, the owner and original builder of the BARHAM model 20 years earlier) and myself (a friend and colleague) decided to go ahead with the project in the first week of December 2011.
Another of the primary movers in the project would be exactly where the hull join would appear on the new RENOWN, and this conveniently fell right where the external gash chutes were positioned, thereby hiding the join. So the runes looked good.
First job was to strip down BARHAM and save anything that would match the conversion, and also to remove all paint and protrusions.
Yarpie and Robbie.
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Nice to see the build being shown on the forum for the first time, I am mostly looking forward to the work of the Scotsman in the build...full steam ahead :-))
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That came out wrong! I am obviously looking forward to both your inputs into the build, its just that Robbie seemed to be getting so much out of the build, it would be nice to see why. Also, I know what it is like to work with a slave driver :}
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That came out wrong! I am obviously looking forward to both your inputs into the build, its just that Robbie seemed to be getting so much out of the build, it would be nice to see why. Also, I know what it is like to work with a slave driver :}
Many thanks kind sir! :-))
There are two schools of thought at present where Robbie (da owner) is concerned. He is delighted with progress at present (I think) and has resigned himself to be patient in order to get a reasonable result. Conversely, he thinks that, as we have not only taken on a conversion, but ultimately ended up with almost a complete build, why didn't we start with a new hull and keep the old BARHAM. %%
Yarpie (and da owner). ;)
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welcome back to the forum yarpie! what happened at the later stages of the rebuild you were doing on the Rodney/Nelson (sorry memory going,old age coming on!)
I followed it with great interest,and then lost touch.I would love to see more photos of that,and this conversion?
cheers,
Mick
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[quote author=Yarpie link=topic=38625.msg385381#msg385381 date=1343593558
Conversely, he thinks that, as we have not only taken on a conversion, but ultimately ended up with almost a complete build, why didn't we start with a new hull and keep the old BARHAM.
[/quote]
Funny that, when we 'converted' his old HMS Dolphin, a similar comment was made by my fellow re-builders %%
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unbuiltnautilus, it seems to be a common trait amongst muddlers then ................. %%
Yarpie.
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welcome back to the forum yarpie! what happened at the later stages of the rebuild you were doing on the Rodney/Nelson (sorry memory going,old age coming on!)
I followed it with great interest,and then lost touch.I would love to see more photos of that,and this conversion?
cheers,
Mick
Great to hear from you Mick. :-))
Yes, I interrupted my build blog on HMS RODNEY when I had my little "rebellion", but I'm happy to resume that one as well, once I manage to pick up the break-off point.
Obviously RODNEY is in the water now that the refit has been completed and she doesn't look too bad.
I may leave unbuiltnautilus to pass independent comment as he is a sage in all things model boating. ok2
Yarpie.
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I may leave unbuiltnautilus to pass independent comment as he is a sage in all things model boating. ok2
Yarpie.
A lone voice in the wilderness, cheers :-))
Yes, Rodney is an excellent job well done, Renown may well surpass it when it hits the water...
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Sorry to put you on the spot there unbuiltnautilus, but you are aware of the finished item and I respect your judgement above all else. :embarrassed:
Getting back to the RENOWN conversion, the first thing that struck us was the stempost shape. BARHAM (the model) had a straight stempost, whereas RENOWN had, noticeably, a hybrid bow, sort of a mix between 19th century and 20th century truncated ramming bow.
So this had to be sorted. Imagine the look on Robbie's face when I took a hacksaw and hacked three inches vertically off his bow. :o (No great shakes as he, bless him, is renowned for flattening his bow against the lakeside concrete). :D
I had an aluminium plate, 1/8th inch thick, which just fitted the bill. First thing was to cut out the stem post profile and pick a point some 3 inches away from where we wanted the bow to be. Then a line was drawn vertically down the bow and the hacksaw was produced. Yep, you read it correctly, a hacksaw. Neither of us is a 'chippy' but we can, as ex stokers, both claim to be 'hackers'. The plate was offered-up to where the bow used to be (image 1). It squeezed nicely into the recess lower down the hull, but tended naturally to swing to the left on the cable deck level, where the gap was much wider.
Two locating stops were cut out, both top (cable deck) and bottom of the hull (keel) to stop the plate moving any further aft as a result of a collision.
At this point Robbie correctly decided that the new plate needed some longitudinal strengthening otherwise the bow might shear off.
Four alumimium battens were then screwed securely to the plate at upper and lower levels and then passed into the hull. This would give further strength to the newly fashioned bow and could be back-filled with resin to solidify the new assembly. (image 2).
In both images, the hull is upside down.
Yarpie and Robbie.
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Once the plate and battens were held in position it was time to fibreglass them into the bow. Fore and aft alignment was critical.
The (blurred) :embarrassed: image shows the fibreglass applied to the plate. Once it has completely set, reprofiling can begin ......
(The hull section is lying on its port side in the image).
Yarpie and Robbie.
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glad im not the only person around here taking the saw to large models to modify them ! jon
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It's so therapeutic John, especially if it's somebody else's pride and joy. :D
Yarpie.
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The fibreglass has been sanded down and some P38 (car body filler) added to fill-in any imperfections.
In turn this has been sanded down giving the finish shown in the images, yellow = fibreglass; grey = P38.
RENOWN had a plate protruding at the base of the stem (under the curvature) which had two holes drilled in it, this allowed for the securing of the paravane cables.
At this point we are becoming slightly more confident of success .... ok2
Yarpie and Robbie.
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Great work on the re-shaped bow! :-))
Will you be creating Renowns destinctive torpedo bulges?
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i know what you mean , the model i cut in two belongs to my girlfreinds brother , which was a very sad looking coaster bought from fratton , which ive cut in half to enable him to transport it , just need to sort some form of seal between the two sections ? ? you bow conversion is looking good jon
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Great work on the re-shaped bow! :-))
Will you be creating Renowns destinctive torpedo bulges?
Thanks for that Eric. :-))
You've probably jumped the gun a bit, as that is the next consideration in the conversion. We actually did set about the distinctive anti-torpedo bulges and the armour plate (which, incidentally, added 4,000 tons to the actual ship).
More on that later. ;)
Yarpie and Robbie.
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i know what you mean , the model i cut in two belongs to my girlfreinds brother , which was a very sad looking coaster bought from fratton , which ive cut in half to enable him to transport it , just need to sort some form of seal between the two sections ? ? you bow conversion is looking good jon
Thanks Jon,
I'm sure that member of the local display team (especially Alan) would give you good advice on how to achieve the seal between both hull sections. There are various methods of achieving this, but central in all of them is a pair of very strong transverse bulkheads where both sections join. These should be substantial enough to take the various loads placed on them.
RENOWN; RODNEY and SS OHIO all have slightly differing methods of watertight coupling and each has its own merits.
Yarpie.
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Once the sanding is completed, it's time to add some grey primer to identify the slightest imperfections.
The bows are not completed yet as there is one more vital step to be carried out.
Yarpie and Robbie.
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The next vital step is to reinforce the bow longitudinally.
The four aluminium battens that were secured to the bow plate and extended aft are instrumental in this.
Once the outer skin of the bow had set, some fibreglass cloth was ripped into small patches and stuffed in the inner bow section and carefully rammed home around the aluminium battens.
Then a one pint mix of resin and hardener was poured into the upturned forward section so that it levelled-off around the battens. This was then tamped down, eliminating any air pockets.
Another one pint mix was prepared, poured and tamped down in the same fashion. The whole forward section was positioned bow downwards for the resin mix to set (48 hours) before any further movement.
We now have a new profiled bow which extends 6" back from the stem as a solid lump. Hopefully this will turn out to be as strong and resilient as the original moulding.
However, time will tell ................. %)
Yarpie and Robbie.
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The bow reprofiling is fully completed, and if we jump forward by about eight months ..... this is how it looks at present. :-)
Neither of us had attempted remedial work such as this before, so we just got our heads together and came up with a plan. To our benefit was the fact that there weren't too many brain cells interfering with each other, so we kept it simple. %)
Hope you like .
Yarpie and Robbie.
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looking good :-))
any more pics of her ?
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Thank you for that Stormbringer. :-))
Yes, there are plenty more images, but for the next phase, we'll have to go back to December last year and the construction of the anti-torpedo bulges and the armour plating. :-))
Yarpie and Robbie.
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Blimey, are you sure you didn't just photoshop half of the real ship into your back garden?
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Blimey, are you sure you didn't just photoshop half of the real ship into your back garden?
You don't think I'm computer savvy enough to do that do you, unbuiltnautilus?%%
No, the image is just to show how the stem looks now after it's rearrangement.
Soon to follow will be our amateurish attempts to create the anti torpedo bulges and armour plating.
Again, we came up with a cunning plan (Baldric), and followed it through.
The proof of the pudding will be whether it holds or not when first lowering the hull into the water. We anticipate some very odd stresses and strains on the assembly, even some we didn't cater for. {:-{
But more of that in the next posting.
Yarpie and Robbie.
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is that the short version ?
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Yes Jon, this is her as a result of the Washington Treaty which limited all battleships to a certain tonnage. :-)
Much easier for parking and she had the biggest transom in the world. O0
Yarpie and Robbie.
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Work on the anti torpedo bulges and armour belt.
As can be seen from the image, the model of BARHAM had some rudimentary armour plating fitted. This had to be rmoved as close inspection of the armour belt revealed that over the course of 20 years water had crept in and the dreaded rot had set into the wood.
A whole new bulge had to be created, not only down the proscribed length of the hull, but separated where both sections of hull joined together.
Firstly we fixed some planking in position slightly shy of the final depth of the bulges and short of the extreme length. These were screwed and glued to the hull sides.
Then down to th local DIY depot and get some 5/16" quarter round wood lengths.
This would be firmly fixed to the underside of the bulge outline and extend to the leading edge of the armour belt. It would be 1/8" proud of the existing woodwork where the lower edge of a sheet of pre-shaped laminate would locate. This was glued and pinned. Later it was spray varnished to protect against decay.
Once set, the laminate was bent over the bulge outline and the upper edge was glued and tacked along the edge of the armour belt......... leaving enough spare to trim off...........
Note that at this stage the new shelter deck forward had been modified and fixed in place.
Yarpie and Robbie.
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The bulge on the starboard side, forward section nearly completed.
All that neeeds to be done now is to extend the bulge by another three inches or so in order to fair-in the addition properly.
The new shelter deck is shown, which was built around, and supported by, the old casement gun arrangement from the BARHAM. This helps to bolster the new vertical extension to the ships side by means of dummy internal bulkheads.
Thanks for your interest in this project and do feel free to comment at any stage. ;)
Yarpie and Robbie.
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so much easier to work on one half at a time ! the conversion is looking good
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The bulges are now being created for the aft section. The method is exactly the same but care has to be taken to get the lining-up exactly right.
First image shows the Admirable Robbie posing by his "Command".
The second image shows the outer "skin" flapping at the deck level. The upper edge is left unsecure until the lower edge is completely set, then it will be bent over ensuring it follows exactly the contour of the forward section then glued and pinned in place.
Image #3 shows the skin pinned at the lower edge (just above the two yellow handles).
Image four is a close-up of how its done.
Yarpie and Robbie.
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http://www.portsmouthnews.tv/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=7230:ships-renown-and-rodney-set-sail-once-again&catid=34:front-page-news
You cannot hide the maiden voyage from us :-)
Excellent finish, looks great on the water and apologies for spoiling the surprise for everyone else :-))
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Thanks for posting the link u-b-n. :-))
It wasn't until I created a new thread that I noticed you'd beaten me to it. (Oh what I'd give to be your age again). %%
C'est la vie. %)
Yarpie.
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awesome :-))