Model Boat Mayhem
The Shipyard ( Dry Dock ): Builds & Questions => Navy - Military - Battleships: => Topic started by: bikerdude999 on August 23, 2012, 06:27:24 pm
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Well inspired by the thread about the lindberg blue devil, I decided to dig out my I started Revell fletcher kit, which I'd previously bought all the bits for then decided it was too small for me to attempt to rc. So I started this week and here's some photos of where I'm at now.
I know the paint isn't 'correct' but I tried the recommended blue deck colour and thought it looked awful so I went for a nice shade of grey, you'll notice half the deck is still blue. I also expect people will tell me to paint before gluing together, and I'd agree when trying to get an accurate scale model, but sitting painting all the little bits still on the spruces drives me mad!
I need to cut down the rudder shaft to allow the deck to sit flush with the hull and the try and decide how I'm going to attach the decks, I looked at gluing them down and having removable superstructure but decided the access to the hull would then be too restricted.
Anyway here's my photos of work so far (don't expect a lot I've only spent 2 mornings on it so probably about 6 hours...)
(http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff42/bikerdude666/BE90F62C-B91B-4B72-A196-5B930EFFFB9F-2157-000003FBC783DC75-1.jpg)
(http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff42/bikerdude666/7C590513-8286-42FF-8299-1F2FB382BAE2-2157-000003FBBBE563B0.jpg)
(http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff42/bikerdude666/C55BA23B-FE78-46A1-A263-697450D0D9AB-2157-000003F9A7B1589D.jpg)
(http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff42/bikerdude666/53495E48-0F9F-4DE3-8AE0-F2998CC4C102-2157-000003F99BAAAAB8.jpg)
(http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff42/bikerdude666/3D38F471-28C5-4D65-9D97-650DD6B68C5D-2157-000003F99125837F.jpg)
Shafts, motors and couplings were from MMB (motors arent yet glued in place, and the shafts need sealing)
Custom split pack battery from component shop.
And the esc is unknown from somewhere I can't remember!
I know it looks a bit of a mess at the moment but I'll tidy the wires up, esc is in the fro section, battery receiver and motors will be in the middle, and a micro servo will be fitted just behind the rear bulkhead in the aft section. I hope to use the standard kit props.
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So what's wrong with that Biker? great stuff I reckon for a few hours matey. We are not all Leonardo da Vincies yah know haha
I bet she will end up great once in the water go for it and lets see some more work and pictures.
%%
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how good is the detail on this model mr dude999
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Im probably the wrong person to ask about thedestroyers think its quite good (especially as the kit was only £50 when I got it. It's got hull plating on it, alot of small fiddly bits to add the detail, I'll try and take some close up photos of it tomorrow. As for the accuracy of it I have no idea, I tend to accept that a relatively cheap plastic kit won't be 100% accurate.
Today's progress, not alot, sealed the shafts and rudder, found I haven't got any rod long enough to reach the servo, so will have to moun it further back. Motors are now glued in place. Still need to figure oh how to attach the decks securely and watertight, and need to find out what is best for gluing a plastic prop to a metal shaft? Any ideas?
(http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff42/bikerdude666/46224A3D-4ED8-416D-AA03-DA6D4AC0D869-2564-0000050ACB2D0B7C.jpg)
(http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff42/bikerdude666/72BFC819-BF03-4E20-9C51-BEE65918A1F9-2564-0000050AD14E83F7.jpg)
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When I was doing my Lindberg Minesweeper I felt deeply uncertain about the colours in the instructions and on the box, so I went webbing, and found http://www.steelnavy.com/usnchips.htm
http://www.researcheratlarge.com/Ships/S19-7/
http://usndazzle.com/1Web/Articles/Camo.html
Then it was just a case of sorting out which shades and tints were the ones for the job, getting a Humbrol sheet, picking the right numbers, trying them, then guessing again to get ones that still looked right after they came out of the tin.
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Thanks for those links, I'll bookmark them for future reference, but for this build I've gone for a selection of the greys I had in the paint drawer, with a splash of black here and there!
Madrob: I've tried to take some close up pictures of some of the detail on the hull, the props seem good, so I've used them, unfortunately my badly brushed painting covers up a lot of the detail on the decks etc.
anyway here's some more photos, not a huge amount of progress again, put it in the bath to test if it was watertight, and if I'd need any extra ballast, and the answers to both were no! It seemed to be leaking from around the starboard prop shaft, and along the centreline where the 2 halves of the hull join together. So I mixed up some epoxy resin and 'hopefully' sealed the hull properly now. I also used the resin to attach the kit props to the prop shafts, and had to make some crude supports for the prop shafts, to get the clearance for the props.
Re-jigged everything inside the hull a bit, it's a bit messy, could do with shortening some of the wires but I don't really want to as I know I'll be using these bits in other models aswell, so will need to keep the length.
The next problem is the strengthening pieces on the underside of the deck are sitting on top of the batteries and so won't allow the deck to sit properly, so I'll need to trim them a bit. Had to use the top of an old bottle of 'cherry coke' as a washer for the rudder tube.
Anyway here's some more photos:
(http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff42/bikerdude666/B9F60FE2-9C5A-4EAF-88F1-0118E9AE39D6-3819-00000725089247ED.jpg)
(http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff42/bikerdude666/DC9C689F-D242-4936-8397-6B2FA38C685D-3819-0000072540744BCF.jpg)
(http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff42/bikerdude666/7C30FB57-4A9B-401C-A790-DC7C0E0836AA-3819-0000072549D77DF3.jpg)
(http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff42/bikerdude666/A48D1389-AD61-437F-A1D4-4A04026264F2-3819-00000725516F6EF9.jpg)
(http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff42/bikerdude666/D27F534C-5295-4039-91AB-D198AB68E98D-3819-000007255782A19A.jpg)
(http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff42/bikerdude666/97471B7B-3D88-4BDC-8325-E42A2052F986-3819-000007255DC03A87.jpg)
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A quick update before I go off to work. The hull has now been painted, using a rattle can of 'Rover, Tempest Grey', a bit shiny, not a perfect match for the other colours, but to me, it looks ok, especially considering its such a small model you'll hardly see it much more than 10 feet away.
Had alot of problems with keeping the water out and with steering. To stop the leaking I used fibre glass resin in the bottom of the hull to seal all the little gaps, the front section has been filled with foam and the deck glued down to keep water out. The steering i sorted by pushing the prop shafts closer together, about 1/4 of an inch, and made a bigger rudder out of some bits i 'borrowed' from my last job. It seems to turn better, but I've only been able to test it in the bath so far, hope to take it to the lake at the weekend and give it a proper test.
I was originally going to brush paint the hull, so glued the front section of deck down, then decided to spray paint it, i tried to cover the superstructure to stop it from getting sprayed but it didn't work too well, as you'll see in the pics.
I've started to add some of the smaller detail parts from the kit, but had a bit much cider before assembling these pieces, so they're err.... not exactly right :embarrassed:
(http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff42/bikerdude666/05637CE9-611B-4961-B092-612009D80394-631-000000EF3BF75761.jpg)
(http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff42/bikerdude666/878FEFC1-C40C-4234-BEB3-8CFF4B7741F0-631-000000EF44DFA1F9.jpg)
(http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff42/bikerdude666/D207F1DE-7D97-47B7-932C-C9950B4C2BFE-631-000000EF3390DDFE.jpg)
(http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff42/bikerdude666/F0FB4887-DE58-49F0-AF3D-8AAC20FC42BE-631-000000EF4AC8395A.jpg)
(http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff42/bikerdude666/EA54BC55-056E-44B3-961A-FBEDD2D6C8C3-631-000000EF50CD658C.jpg)
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Looks like she is coming along nicely for you Bikerdude. I can't see any overspray looks like camouflage to me, did'nt they have cammo on em Hmmmm.
Hope you Lake test works out for you matey all the good kluck numbers from me here in Aussie, I have had to completely redo my inside of the Lindberg Kit as it appears that the little motor supplied decided to smoke it out on me haha I thought it might so have added 2 motors and single rudder to mine now.
Got the turrets to turn seperately now so Group one is front 2 turrets plus forward torpedoe tube and Group 2 is the Aft section of the weapons.
Gotta get used to using the 4 channels however as front guns are up and down on my TX and rear is Sideways like lucky I'm not dixlexic yet haha.
Gives us the report on your Submarine matey look forward to it. %%
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how good is the detail on this model mr dude999
Plenty of reviews online about this kit. A vast improvement over the Lindberg Blue Devil but then again this is 21st century manufacture; the Blue Devil is a product of its age (1960's when everything was a bit primitive). A few errors and omissions but they can be fixed if you're mad enough...
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I have got a brief video of a test run, but I don't have the space on my laptop to download it from the camera and then upload it to youtube. I'll have a look at what I can delete to make space tomorrow.
Anyway the quick test run showed a few problems:
A: It worked fine for around 5 Min's, and then randomly went into full astern halfway across the lake, I regained control, brought it back in and put the TX/RX in my other model, and sent that out, and had no such problems, so put it back in the destroyer and within 2 minutes it was going full astern across the lake again!
B: performance wasn't that impressive, but that could be due to discharged batteries, I thought they had been charged, but maybe not.
C: the single rudder really doesn't give very good maneuverability (sp?) having a turning circle of around 5-6 foot!
On the plus side, despite the rear deck being awash whilst going backwards there wasn't a single drop of water inside the hull, despite having nothing to try and stop water getting in, no mods at all to the deck, just push fit on! It also seemed very stable, despite being quite blowy, it didn't roll too much!
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Hey Biker,
Did the kit come with twin rudders? How long did the ship measure out at?
Sounds as though she will be aok once you sort out your problems
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No this kit is of the earlier 'fletchers', so comes with the original single rudder, I made up a bigger rudder than was supplied in the hope it would help the turning circle but alas not. Don't think it's big enough to get 2 workin rudders on there but I'll have to see what can be done.
From memory the kit is 77cm long, but I'll have a check when I get home.
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your throttle probs sound like a reciever problem might be the discharger battery I had a simular thing with one of mine working great all day but when batt was very low lost steering and boat went full astern fresh battery sorted it.
if you have space try m troniks mixer and 2 10 amp esc with sort the handling with single rudder
looks nice btw
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What kind of ESC is fitted? If it is one that uses a relay for reverse, is the relay operated for forward? A low battery can prevent the relay operating, so all you get is reverse. For long run times, its always best to arrange things so that forward doesn't need the relay operated, as the relay can take almost as much current as the motors in a small installation like this.
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Hey Biker,
Did the kit come with twin rudders? How long did the ship measure out at?
Sounds as though she will be aok once you sort out your problems
Just had a look, the kit is 79.7cm
your throttle probs sound like a reciever problem might be the discharger battery I had a simular thing with one of mine working great all day but when batt was very low lost steering and boat went full astern fresh battery sorted it.
if you have space try m troniks mixer and 2 10 amp esc with sort the handling with single rudder
looks nice btw
I'll recharge the battery, and hopefully give it another this Sunday, unfortunately there's no room inside for a mixer unit and 2 ESC's, it's a bit of a squeeze as it is lol
What kind of ESC is fitted? If it is one that uses a relay for reverse, is the relay operated for forward? A low battery can prevent the relay operating, so all you get is reverse. For long run times, its always best to arrange things so that forward doesn't need the relay operated, as the relay can take almost as much current as the motors in a small installation like this.
It's fitted with an Mtroniks viper marine 20 ESC. After the first run and reversing across the lake, I swapped the wires round in the connector between the motors and ESC, (and also switched the propshafts over) but still had the same problem.
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No this kit is of the earlier 'fletchers', so comes with the original single rudder, I made up a bigger rudder than was supplied in the hope it would help the turning circle but alas not. Don't think it's big enough to get 2 workin rudders on there but I'll have to see what can be done.
From memory the kit is 77cm long, but I'll have a check when I get home.
All the Fletchers had a single rudder and were notorious for their poor turning circle, even being out -turned by Missouri class battleships.
After WW2 they were given a larger rudder which helped.
Sumners and Gearings had twin rudders.
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Just managed to clear some space and download the video from Sunday, unfortunately my wife-to-be's camera skills are quite awful...... admittedly she had to look after our son at the same time, but there isn't a single clear, decent, steady shot of the destroyer..... think I'll try doing it myself next time!
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It's fitted with an Mtroniks viper marine 20 ESC. After the first run and reversing across the lake, I swapped the wires round in the connector between the motors and ESC, (and also switched the propshafts over) but still had the same problem.
That eliminates any relay questions then. Sounds like the signal loss/failsafe causing the RX to tell its (assumed aircraft) ESC to go to minimum speed, which on a boat ESC is flat out reverse. That could be either the transmitter not transmitting, or the receiver not receiving, or both doing their best and the signal just not getting there.
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Could it be just a simple case of being a 2.4Ghz TX/RX combo, in such a small model, the receiver is probably below the waterline so signal being blocked? So either try and find a way of getting the aerial to come out the deck or try and some crystals for my old futaba 40Mhz set...
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Many have been lead to believe the last 4 Fletchers in the class were given twin rudders sort of as a test bed for the Sumner class but there's no real evidence to support that claim and I am not an adherent of that theory either. I too had heard that an Iowa class had turned inside of some destroyers within its own battlegroup, much to the astonishment of the "Tin Can" skippers. So a five foot turning circle is on par with the performance of the real thing. Amazing. We can scale the vessel but we cannot scale the water and yet we get similar results...
The ACTion Electronics mixers cannot be fitted to the 1/144 Fletcher? Is the hull too slender?
All the Fletchers had a single rudder and were notorious for their poor turning circle, even being out -turned by Missouri class battleships.
After WW2 they were given a larger rudder which helped.
Sumners and Gearings had twin rudders.
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Just had another look at the Mtroniks site, I was thinking of something else, the mixer is much smaller than I thought, so coupled with 2 of the microvipers it may just squeeze in! If I was to go down that route actually the mixer receiver and servo could sit in the aft section, with the ESC's in the middle with the motors.
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yes the mixers and the 10amp ESC's are only 25mm square I'll be using them in a 1/32 LCA my sons wanting to build.
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Yes, and Malcolm (?) shoe-horned them into the Lindberg Minesweeper which is only 17 inches long. I think they'll fit fine.
Then, get yourself (at least) a 4 channel radio, using both sticks for throttles and with rudder control as well, you can have full control; Differential plus rudder. The full sized vessels had individual control of port and starboard engines, so why not you?
This is a daring build bikerdude999; takes some testicular fortitude. :-))
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Yes, and Malcolm (?) shoe-horned them into the Lindberg Minesweeper which is only 17 inches long. I think they'll fit fine.
Then, get yourself (at least) a 4 channel radio, using both sticks for throttles and with rudder control as well, you can have full control; Differential plus rudder. The full sized vessels had individual control of port and starboard engines, so why not you?
This is a daring build bikerdude999; takes some testicular fortitude. :-))
The ESCs that I used were actually a pair of Picos from Action, with a pair of his small motors, but the principle is still true. Initially I had a mixer and rudder control, but the servo died so I left the rudder as a trim tab, removed the mixer and tank steer. Setting the left stick (unsprung) then matching the thrust on the right stick does seem to work well. I would have just used a pair of butchered servos, but Daves motors offered longer shafts for easier coupling, the ESCs have a deadband, and they were easier to site in the hull.
To avoid the failsafe, with a single ESC, using an unaffected channel might be simplest (probably right stick?). Using tank steering, should the failsafe kick in, it just turns on the spot.
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Sat here bored reading through old posts, I came across this thread and realised I'd never updated further!
So around the end of September (I think) my gf was going flying and I got her to drop me off at the lake with a selection of boats. One of which was this destroyer. The boat proved again to be underpowered, and still awful steering so definitely needs a mixer or independent control of the motors. However that was the least of my problems, the lake was suffering a bit from weed at the time, and the props on this model being so small, took no time to weed up and stop. Unfortunately the model was in the middle of the lake at the time and it was an unusually calm day so no breeze to bring my model back to the side. I had to put in my Flower Class Corvette to try and rescue the destroyer, the flower class having a 45mm 3 blade brass prop, doesn't get weeded up, tends to cut the weed to shreds. But the weed was so thick on the surface, that it made it incredibly difficult to push the destroyer back in. I eventually managed to get it back to the edge of the lake, after about 1 hour of nudging, smashing into and some swearing...
When I took the model out the lake a long string of weed about 18 inches long was attached to each prop, I cleared this off but unfortunately the motors must have been working hard for a few mins before being completely stopped, and had burned out. I was pretty annoyed and when I got home the model went on it's stand on the kitchen side, and has stayed there since, still with the nasty weedy mess stuck to the hull.
Starting to want to get it working again now though, so am on the lookout for some suitable motors, with a bit more power and speed in them, and possibly some bigger props, though I'm not sure they'll fit, and would need to be M2 shafts. Got a lot of boats on the go at the moment though so not sure when I'll get this done.
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Haaa! I had wondered what had happened to your progress but at the same time, your thread had been pushed down the listing and so out of sight is out of mind.
Sad to hear your motors "kicked the bucket." I'm no expert on nomenclature but are/were your motors 280's? Cannot imagine they were underpowered so was there any binding or drag in the drivetrain (shafts, couplers, prop struts)? I think it important to have motors that provide more than scale speed if needed to escape the danger of various obstacles, high waves, water beasts and so forth.
I think you need a 'sea' with no seaweed.
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Hi, the props turned freely, and I can't remember where I got the motors now, but they were sold as 'micro-motors' and the sales description said suitable for plastic conversions, but they just never seemed to have the power. I think I've got some graupner speed 300's lurking somewhere, but I'm moving house at the moment so obviously everything I want is in an unknown box! If I've not got motors I'll probably buy some speed 300's or similar, as long as they're rated for at least 7.2v and have another go.
Definite need to get new props now though, whilst transporting the model the kit props snapped some blades!
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Bump/BTT.
So, did you replace the props and motors? Since Glen made such an impact with his aftermarket props from Prop Shop (on his Lindberg Fletcher build), why not use a suitably sized set from them?
A thing I find very useful is a cradle/tote for transporting boats to and from the lake. Something that lets the rudder and props not have to support the weight of the model but hang freely in the air. Doesn't have to be elaborate and can even be a modified cardboard box.
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Been very gradually moving house over the last month, and still tryin to sort out everything in the new place, I did find the spare graupner motors I've got, a couple of speed 300's, 7.2v and on the box it says something about 1.41amps max. Having difficulty removing the old props, the kits props had no thread and as such were glued to the shafts, and are proving tricky to remove, I've got a couple of 3 blade props that I'll try.
As for the cradle, I've 'liberated' some rubber straps from work and got some off cuts of ply to try and make a stand for transporting. I've got 3 nearly ready to sail boats at the moment and am having trouble to find time to do any of them! Still need to look into getting a mixer and a couple of micro esc's.
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The props, if as supplied, will probably be the right size and shape. When I did my Lindberg tug many years ago, I used the kit prop but found that it was more inclined to act as a sideways paddle. Since I, too, had epoxied it to the shaft, I wound up re-profiling the edges the hard way - in situ, using a sanding stick. Took time, but the results were worth the effort.
On my Tuna boat, I just used the kit prop, but a few years down the line I managed to break it and replaced it with a home made one according to the tugboatjoe method, soldered to the shaft. Something like a Fletcher, with its higher performance, does deserve better, though.
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So true. On the Fletcher I am soon to introduce to the Forum my props are the cheap 2 blade props. She fairly moves along however so performance is not an issue. I will leave it at that as its what is seen on top of the water people see. I will go into correct scale on my next Fletcher build.