Model Boat Mayhem
The Shipyard ( Dry Dock ): Builds & Questions => Pleasure boats, Sports, Race, Power and Leisure Boats: => Topic started by: TailUK on November 13, 2012, 10:28:11 am
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Has anyone else bought a VMB Company Wavemaster 25? I picked one up at Warwick at the weekend and need a content check. I've tried contacting the company but can't get hold of them.
Specifically I need to know if there should be 5 sheets of laser cut 3mm ply?
Many thanks.
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When I bought my Sea Scout from them, there was a sheet of paper enclosed, showing the different ply sheets that came with the kit, have you not got that? If not try giving them a ring, they usually answer, unless he's away at another show........
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Thanks Mike, There was no contents list and I've tried ringing them. I'm fairly certain one sheet of ply is missing but wanted to make sure.
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Mystery solved! VMB got back to me and is sending replacements! Good service!
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Great ! I've always found Ivan to be very helpful, so I'm glad that you're sorted and don't forget to put up some photos of the build ! :-)
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I meet Ivan at Warwick and have to say he is very helpfull (aided by the fair Marie) in fact I came away with a Sea Scout (well Steamboat Apprentice did) and a Sea Nymph and all the missing fittings (that have been knocked off over the past 40 years) for my fire boat, the 2 other members of my club also came away with their little projects.........
A big Wavemaster for me next........they really are great little kits and Ii wish them huge success, as with any luck we might now encourage some new model boaters. :-))
Now how do I get a steam plant in one {-) {-)
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So here we are "Kickin it,old school" I'm working on a 25 mm MDF build board and using medium viscosity Superglue for assembly.
More pics to follow.
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Hello TailUK, can you continue posting and let us know how you get on? I too bought the Wavemaster at Warwick (35" length) but am finishing off an MTB before I open or start the kit. Looks a nice model and hope all goes well with you. Regards, Tony.
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Not a problem! I hope to document the build right through. My initial impression of the kit is that the pieces are a reasonable fit but there is enough slack to give you problems so plenty of checking with the square as you fit them. Once fixed, however, I think it will give a simple but relatively strong structure. I'm held up at the moment until the missing pieces arrive but have fitted the keel doublers where possible and the stem blocks, which will hold the ply skins when they are fitted, of all the jobs that's the one I'm not looking forward to. The keel doublers need to sanded where they line up with the frames. I did this before gluing them as it gives a cleaner corner for the edge of the ply to fit into. I'll include a pic of that when I post the next lot of pictures.
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On my Sea Scout I soaked the skins in the bath for a while and then pinned them to the superstructure and allowed them to dry. They dried almost perfectly to the shape and were then easy to glue.....
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My initial impression of the kit is that the pieces are a reasonable fit but there is enough slack to give you problems so plenty of checking with the square as you fit them.
handy hint when making this kind of frame.... clamp a couple of lego bricks into the joins while the glue goes off keeps everything nice and square. Lego technic is very useful for this as it has holes in that can be used to screw them down to the building base
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I to brought one or 2 of these kits, this is my frist boat a Mr Tom :} :} Im really enjoying buliding it, the only thing i have found so far is that some steps of the build are missing from the insturctions, but even i worked out where and how to do them, so not a big issue.will try and put some pics up later :-) :-)
kelly
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handy hint when making this kind of frame.... clamp a couple of lego bricks into the joins while the glue goes off keeps everything nice and square. Lego technic is very useful for this as it has holes in that can be used to screw them down to the building base
i like that kind of thinking !!!!! ( he says thinking about his christmas bonus !!!!! {-) )
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I think I have more lego in my building box than the kids do :embarrassed:
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The missing bits showed up today and work started again. I finished fitting the keel doublers including K5 and 6 which are double doublers. K5 supports the keel where the gap for the prop tube is and K6 widens the keel to allow the rudder tube to be fitted.
(pic 004) I bevelled the doublers as I was fitting them (pic 002).
Included in the missing sheet was the K4 double but it isn't marked. It fits eithers side of the join in the keel. (pic 003)
Then I started fitting the deck stringers. (pic 005) This highlighted a small problem. The first frame (Bulkhead One) is fitted to the "breasthook" shown on the drawing as the "nose piece" The breasthook is wider than the cutouts for the stringers in B1! This doesn't allow the stringer to be run around the edge of the breasthook as shown in the drawing. The option would be to re-sand the breasthook until it's the same width as the top edge of B1 or what I did which was to the chamfer the end of the deck stringer until it lined up with the breasthook. This will allow the outer deck stringer to wrap right aroung to the stem. (pic006)
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Friday! The last pic for this week shows the deck and chine stringers in place. Once these are sanded or planed to shape the ply skins can be fitted. I may fit the stern tube and figure out the motor mount before that though.
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Looking good ! :-)
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Got the stringers shaped and ready for the ply skins. I broke one of the stringer releasing it from the build board but it glued easily enough. Greaseproof paper on the board would probably have been a good idea. The spacer in the keel for the stern tube broke free so I fitted the tube to stabilise the keel. It was a 150mm tube but I shortened it a little.
I used a scrap of 1.5mm aero ply to make a template for the bottom skins (pic 008) I'd tried card but didn't have the best kind. (Cornflakes box) The template is almost right but I might re-do it and make sure it's spot on. I've deviated from the instructions at this point. They recommend that the side skins should be done first but I'm hoping it'll be easier to keep the keel stright by doing the bottom skins first.
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When preparing a building board it can help to rub over the areas where glued joints will be with a candle stub.
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Yesterday I re-cut the template for the bottom skins and made sure it fitted both sides. I called in to the local Maplin's and bought some of their cheapo G clamps on the way home. The chine stringer angles quite sharply towards the stem post so I prepped a couple of the G clamps ready for the gluing job. (pic 009)
I pre-bent the ply skins with a old guitar rib bender after cutting them to the template. The ply supplied in the kit bends easily and without cracking
This made it a lot easier to pull them round into shape. I used epoxy to glue them down and when I release it from the build board I'll go over the inside with medium viscosity superglue to re-inforce the glued joints. I glued the keel side and stringers and the edge of the frames and laid the skin in place, starting at the stern, lining up to pre determined marks I "G" clamped to the stringer and pinned the inside edge to the keel and keel doublers. (pic010) As far as I can tell the keel is fairly streight.
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Not a great deal done today, Removed the clamps and pins and took it off the build board, (pic 011) I sorted out the motor mount and rudder tube. (pic012) I did these before fitting the side skin for ease of access. Once the Epoxy finishing resin appears I'll coat the inside and fit the side skins.
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While I'm waiting for the stuff to finish the hull I started the superstructure. The laser cut parts fit fairly well and the cabin drops nicely into the cutouts on top of the frames. The cabin was assembled using superglue and pins into predrilled holes. The only difficulty was fitting "C3" which needed to be sanded to fit.
Once the servo mount and rudder arms are fitted I'll skin the remainder of the hull and fix the cabin and decks.
I decided on a colour scheme and skinned the cabin parts with red hardwood veneer about 0.5mm thick. I also skinned the transom. I stained the redwood "Deep Mahogany" I think it should look quite smart once it's clear coated. Cabin roofs will be white or off-white and the hull dark blue.
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Coming along nicely T uk, what size is the motor the esc and prop that you'll be using?
Regards, Tony.
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The motor is somewhere in the 500 range and the prop is a plastic 2 blade about 35mm. These were bought from VMB Co at the same time as the kit and the ones recommended for this kit. I'm arranging so i can upgrade the motor at a later date if the performence requires it.
The ESC is still in question I've got a Turnigy 30A esc but I think it only runs forward so might change it out for an Mtronic 15A Viper. We'll have to see how it goes.
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Tonight, one of the jobs I was apprehensive about. The cabin roofs. The parts supplied for the skins were fine but because I'd added a veneer the overhang was reduced, so I replaced the parts with spare Aeroply. The roof base was sanded to fit neatly into the opening and then attached to an MDF base with double sided tape to ensure it stayed flat. The ribs were superglued into place. I marked the centerline on the end ribs and on the underside of the skin, then dry fitted them (pic015)
Once I was happy with the fit I glued the skins in place with epoxy and clamped the edges. (pic016)
When the glue was set I cleaned off any excess glue and fitted the roof to the cabin sides allowing about 2mm all round. (pic017) I'll fit scrap wood bearers inside the cabin sides and use magnets to secure the roofs.
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its coming on and starting to look like a ship :-))
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A lunchtime's tinkering saw the battery box fitted and the servo mounted. (pics 018,019) The servo is mounted where it can reached by removing the rear cabin roof and despite being a little tight the battery can be changed. The rudder post will be inaccesible under the rear deck so the rudder arms will need to be soldered in place. (Next Job) Finally a general shot showing the painted cabin roofs (pic020) finished with sanding sealer, Halford's primer and satin white spray paint.
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Just a quick question.
I too have bought this kit on a wave of nostalgia, and note from your comments that you think it may require a motor upgrade?.
I also thought it may not give the performance I am hoping to get from this boat, and wondered wether anyone had done an upgrade and what they used. I'm no boy racer but I would like to get a near 60's/70's performance out of it, something near to the diesels I used to watch at Blackheath as a kid.
I still have an E.D. sea bee diesel engine that hasn't run for the last 40 or so years, that I'd like to install in one of the smaller kits if I can find someone to school me in these engines as I'm more of a sail man.
Please keep posting
Misog
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Is you ED Bee water-cooled ? If not sell it to a collector , or even it is , sell it to a collector and go electric. Just my opinion.
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Just a quick question.
I too have bought this kit on a wave of nostalgia, and note from your comments that you think it may require a motor upgrade?.
I also thought it may not give the performance I am hoping to get from this boat, and wondered wether anyone had done an upgrade and what they used. I'm no boy racer but I would like to get a near 60's/70's performance out of it, something near to the diesels I used to watch at Blackheath as a kid.
I still have an E.D. sea bee diesel engine that hasn't run for the last 40 or so years, that I'd like to install in one of the smaller kits if I can find someone to school me in these engines as I'm more of a sail man.
Please keep posting
Misog
I'd agree with Arrow5. Many park lakes and club waters don't allow IC boats so you might want to check you could sail an IC boat locally before you decide. I saw one of VMB's boats at Warwick that had been fitted with a brushless motor and I'm sure you could get IC performance from the right brushless motor.
Mine own model is progressing slowly as we are still pretty busy at work but I hope to have it on the water by the end of the week if only to check the trim (pic to follow) I've been contenting myself with fitting out the "gubbins" and gloss coating the hardwood cabin sides.
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I'd agree with Arrow5. Many park lakes and club waters don't allow IC boats so you might want to check you could sail an IC boat locally before you decide. I saw one of VMB's boats at Warwick that had been fitted with a brushless motor and I'm sure you could get IC performance from the right brushless motor.
Mine own model is progressing slowly as we are still pretty busy at work but I hope to have it on the water by the end of the week if only to check the trim (pic to follow) I've been contenting myself with fitting out the "gubbins" and gloss coating the hardwood cabin sides.
There are waters where I live that allow IC and I understand where you're coming from, just thought it might be nice to match the old engine with the sort of model it was intended for and see how it went as I've never managed to run it before.
Looking forward to seeing more pictures as mine not yet started.
Is you ED Bee water-cooled ? If not sell it to a collector , or even it is , sell it to a collector and go electric. Just my opinion.
Sure is
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There are waters where I live that allow IC and I understand where you're coming from, just thought it might be nice to match the old engine with the sort of model it was intended for and see how it went as I've never managed to run it before.
Looking forward to seeing more pictures as mine not yet started.Sure is
I can dig that! The watercooled E.D.Bee does seem to be a bit of a rare bird though. Have you got the 25" or the 34" wavemaster? The smaller one like mine should be suitable for the 1 cc engine. If it were my job to do I think I'd start with an engine stand an get the engine running with it watercooling and then look to see how that needs to be fitted into the boat. There's more than enough room in the wavemaster to fit engine, watercooling and fuel tank as well as the radio gear. If you have an interest in classic model boats check out;
http://vintagemodelpoweboat.forumotion.co.uk/ (http://vintagemodelpoweboat.forumotion.co.uk/) and http://froggyt996.wix.com/vintage-model-power-boat/hammersmith#!__home-page (http://froggyt996.wix.com/vintage-model-power-boat/hammersmith#!__home-page)
You'll probably find better advice on IC engines there too.
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Even a 25" would be(e) better with a 1 1/2CC CI engine to get it onto the plane and do you really want the three day Castor stink? {-)
On a more serious note, see the comment re oil soak in the 46" Fire tender restoration.
Regards Ian.
(An I LURV Diesels)
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I can dig that! The watercooled E.D.Bee does seem to be a bit of a rare bird though. Have you got the 25" or the 34" wavemaster? The smaller one like mine should be suitable for the 1 cc engine. If it were my job to do I think I'd start with an engine stand an get the engine running with it watercooling and then look to see how that needs to be fitted into the boat. There's more than enough room in the wavemaster to fit engine, watercooling and fuel tank as well as the radio gear. If you have an interest in classic model boats check out;
http://vintagemodelpoweboat.forumotion.co.uk/ (http://vintagemodelpoweboat.forumotion.co.uk/) and http://froggyt996.wix.com/vintage-model-power-boat/hammersmith#!__home-page (http://froggyt996.wix.com/vintage-model-power-boat/hammersmith#!__home-page)
You'll probably find better advice on IC engines there too.
I have the 25 hence the comment that I'd like to match the engine to a suitable model as mine is 0.46cc. Nothing against electric though but not knowledgable about brushless stuff.
Thanks for the pointers though, I'll follow up on those.
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as mine is 0.46cc.
????
ED Bee is 1CC ED Baby is 0.46
Regards Ian.
If you "Bing" or "Google" ED Baby, you will be directed to the Motor Boys site and see the Aero version of your engine. The Bee never had a screw on barrel.
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????
ED Bee is 1CC ED Baby is 0.46
Regards Ian.
Mines a baby then. I bought it second hand as a sea bee from a model shop in lewisham out of my paper round money in the late sixties.
You learn something every day, I still like it though and hope to see it run one day.
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Looking back over the days since my last picture post I realised I've actually acheived very little towards getting the boat in the water. I fitted the electrics and radio gear then blew the prop shaft coupling by pushing the motor to full throttle. I need to dismantle the drive and rudder to fix it.
Most of the work I have managed to do has been dolling up the cabin before I need to fix it in place. After the holiday I'll;
1) Fix the drive.
2) Finish the hull, paint it and test the trim and integrity.
3) Fix the cabin.
4) Fix the deck.
I am rather pleased with the appearence of the cabin though.
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Nice job Tailuk, I'd be pleased with your cabin also. Keep posting :-))
Regards, Tony.
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Yes nice cabin there - and I'll keep watching with interest.
Dave
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Back again, having eaten, drunk and been merry. I resorted to a bought motor coupling and now that's fixed I'm proceeding to finish the hull.
The kit supplied ply was roughly shaped and the bow end was "feathered" to fit against the stem. (pic 022) then I curved the side pieces using the guitar rib bender. With this ply I found that it bends nicely without wetting it. I actually pulled a little too much curve into it but it still fitted well. I used Epoxy to glue it and used plenty of clamps along the top edge and pinned through the ply into the chine stringers. (pic023)
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Hello Tailuk, what is the "guitar rib bender" you use? seems to do a grand job of shaping the ply skins.
Anymore pitfalls to watch out for yet? I've the 34" version yet to start.
Happy new year and regards, Tony. :-))
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The rib bender is a piece of kit I "inherited" when I started running the workshop. It was bought back in the 70s when the department was making a lot of wacky woodwork.
To explain that, I run a workshop at a university design school. The main focus of the department in the 70s was furniture and ceramics, now it's industrial design but we kept a lot of the old kit because it comes in handy every now and again.
The rib bender is basically a big lump of aluminium about 3 inches tall with a heating element which you can pull wood around to heat form it. (see pic).
There are no real pitfalls as I can see provided you work methodically and watch out for the symmetry. I test fitted the ply skins repeatedly until I was happy that they touched in all the right places then maked a couple of reference points on them so I wouldn't have to check the position after the glue was applied. Basically glue it up, lightly clamp it and then line it up with the marks and get the rest of the clamps and pins in place all, hopefully, before the glue sets.
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Cheers for that, what a handy bit of kit for building models - not seen anything like it. (You must have been just a nipper yourself then!)
Regards, Tony.
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Hey! :o
I've got a bender very similar to that although not identical. It's probably of the same vintage. It came to me from my Grandad who used it for violin making purposes...bending the ribs thereof to shape. It worked very well when I did violin making as an evening class for a few years.
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http://slurmed.com/fanart/homies/010_bender-boat.png
Just thought I'd lower the tone :embarrassed:
Dave
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Cheers for that, what a handy bit of kit for building models - not seen anything like it. (You must have been just a nipper yourself then!)
Regards, Tony.
That's very kind but I'm afraid the 1970's saw me kicked out of school and into the waiting arms of the taxman. Which came as something of a shock!
Having read rmaddock's comment I think it probable that this is a violin rib bender rather than the guitar as I was told. The department used to run violin making courses during the summer vacation so this was another reason we had this bit of kit.
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There's a series of photos here of one being used to bend the ribs of a violin ...... http://www.derekroberts.co.uk/making/ribs.htm (http://www.derekroberts.co.uk/making/ribs.htm)
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There's a series of photos here of one being used to bend the ribs of a violin ...... http://www.derekroberts.co.uk/making/ribs.htm (http://www.derekroberts.co.uk/making/ribs.htm)
Fascinating! I remember when I helped with my first violin course. I was astounded that the back and front were carved from a slab of wood, I'd always assumed that they were moulded.
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Fascinating! I remember when I helped with my first violin course. I was astounded that the back and front were carved from a slab of wood, I'd always assumed that they were moulded.
A friend of mine is a violinist and he and I, when we were younger and he was at the Royal College of Music, experimented with making both violins and mandolins. I well remember using a series of small spokeshaves to carve the quarter cut wood that is used for the back and front, it's a very subtle and extremely difficult piece of work to ensure a good quality tone and resonance to the instrument and having done that there's jobs like inserting the purfling ..... .. it's one of the reasons why I didn't take it up as a full time job ! {-)
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With the hull sides in place and having fixed the chine rubbing strakes in place. I wiped a modest amount of car body filler over any gaps and pin holes (quite a few of those). At this point you can use the strakes to ensure you've got a symetrical shape. After I'd fixed one side I put reference lines on both sides, then measured the distances between the strake and the top edge of the hull. Transferring these measurement to the other side helped to get the second strake in the correct position. I rubbed the whole hull down and gave it a wipe.
I applied a liberal coat of epoxy finishing resin to the ply and used some light GRP tissue with the epoxy to re-enforce the keel around the stern tube. The keel has been glued to the tube a couple of times, first with epoxy then with superglue but resting the hull down on it's keel knocked it loose, hence the stiffening tissue. Once this epoxy is dry I'll give it a coat or five of primer and finally get it on the water. (pics 024, 025)
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Nice buils so far :-)) I have this kit on order. there do not seem to be that many around. I dont have the kit yet but I am already planning. Is there a full size boat similar to this I am looking for ideas for colour schemes and finishes and I need a little insiration
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looking around this one looks pretty good
http://www.wicksteedparkmbc.com/wavemaster.html (http://www.wicksteedparkmbc.com/wavemaster.html)wavemaster (http://www.wicksteedparkmbc.com/wavemaster.html)
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Nice buils so far :-)) I have this kit on order. there do not seem to be that many around. I dont have the kit yet but I am already planning. Is there a full size boat similar to this I am looking for ideas for colour schemes and finishes and I need a little insiration
Google for "Vintage Cabin Cruisers" there are some really nice looking boats out there.
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The Wavemaster has had it's first "float" test and remained dry inside, so I stripped out all the gear and broke out the rattle cans. I used about 4 coats of filler primer to level the surface as best I could. After much rubbing down I got some colour on it. A dark blue above the chine and a lighter blue below. (pics 026, 027) The transom was stained and I'll go over the whole thing with clear laquer. Next step will be to re-install the gear and if the pond ever thaws out, give it a run.
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Ready for her sea trials! :-)) I refitted the prop, rudder and radio gear and bench ran them, all good. Here's the wavemaster on the carry stand with the cabin in place. I'm holding off on fitting the decks until I'm sure she'll run OK and tried her on the water.
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The Wavemaster went into the water this lunchtime. Unfortunatly the batteries in the camera gave out. Despite the breezy conditions the boat seemed reasonably stable although a tired battery in the boat didn't give me the performace I was hoping for. The battery is on charge and I'll have new camera batteries tomorrow, so with any luck there'll pictures and perhaps a video. Found a small hull leak which should be easy enough to fix. All in all, a satisfactory first test.
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Car battery and a long extension of Regiments free BT wire? :}
Regards Ian.
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It's like Ford's new electric car! 500 quid for the car and 10,000 pounds for the 600 mile long extension lead.
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Only costs five and ninepence three farthings to drive from Sheffield to London though
Regards Ian
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Hi Circlip,
now that's an expression I haven't heard since my Grandfather died, years ago. :-))
Farthings had gone before I was a lad :D
Then in '67 real money stopped altogether O0
cheers
vnkiwi
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Still use them in Yorkshire :-))
Regards Ian
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As the breeze was less today and the hull leak is apparently fixed I took the chance to get the Wavemaster out again. With a charged battery she went a lot better but still not as good as I expected, I'll need to give that some thought.
So here are a couple of pics and a Youtube link to a poor video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEuHoSBEjd4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEuHoSBEjd4)
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You need a 'go faster' deck..... oh, any deck would do :o %) %) {-)
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You need a 'go faster' deck..... oh, any deck would do :o %) %) {-)
I left the deck off on purpose. Access to the "gubbins" is a whole lot easier without it, if any remedial work was required. Fixing the hull leak with the deck on would have been a bear. Now I've seen that she'll run OK I can proceed with the deck and the final detailing
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:-))
Of course I realised there was a reason.................. {-)
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To keep sailorboy61 happy :P I started fitting the decks. The deck provided is rather stiff so clamps were needed while the glue set. I clad the cabin with hardwood so the side decks were a little short. I've cut away the bow and stern decks around the cabin(There loads of excess in the pieces) to fit further back. I can now trim the side pieces to fit. (pic 031,032)
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Looking GOOD!
Note to self, must get one of these kits....
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Fitting the side decking was a bit trickier than bow and stern. The ply had accquired a fairly good curl due to my not weighting it down while it was waiting to fitted. I pulled some of the twist out using the rib bender so it would fix down flat. I sanded the ends of the piece to fit between the bow and stern deck and using a little plane and a sanding block tweaked the fit against the cabin side. There was slight difference in height where the bow and stern deck fitted against the side deck. I added a sliver of wood along the top of the 1/8th strip that was fitted along the top of the bulkheads against the cabin side. Scrap piecs of MDF were use to push the inner edge down, clamped to the cabin sides and tape and a pin were used to hold the outer edge down. When the other side is fixed the deck edge can be trimmed back and the rubbing strip will cover the exposed ply edge.
(pic 033)
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misog why not start your OWN Build blog so we can see yours being built
Dave
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Sorry I take the hint, didn't mean to hijack the thread.
I'll zip it now!
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Hi, just found your build log for this boat - it's encouraging as I to purchased one of these at Warwick last year, and after finally finishing another project (and decorating) I have finally started my build this evening. Your tips and insights are going to be a great help. Incidentally I went for a brushless setup with a 1600Kv outrunner and am planning to run on a 7.4 lipo.
By the way what did you use for window framing as there is none in the kit? Keep us the good work
TJ
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Hi TJ, I too have nearly completed the 34" version bought at Warwick last year and have also followed Les's build (Tailuk) which was a big help, didn't really look at the instructions. I also contacted him re the window frames but Les has the skill and opportunity to laser cut them, an important point he quite rightly made is they are nearly all different sizes.
I hand cut mine out of plastic card, 2 each of 11 different sizes! I used the laser cut wooden pieces (that are removed from the openings) as templates for the 3mm acrylic windows I used. I temporarily stuck the acrylic to either side of the templates using light tack double sided tape and cut around the peripheries with a roller guided router cutter, was pleased as they fitted in a treat. I used waterproof double sided tape stuck to the back of the frames, removed the excess overlaps with a scalpel, removed the backing paper, lined up and stuck the acrylics to the frames and pushed them into the apertures so that the overlap of the frame stuck to the sides of the cabin, two birds with one stone so as to speak with no mess, no glue. Will happily post a pic or two if it will help.
Oh by the way, you'll also find there is no provision for cabin flooring above the motor compartment, not difficult to overcome but it's a bit of surprising omission I think nonetheless.
Anyway good luck and enjoy the build, kind regards, Tony. :-))