Model Boat Mayhem

Dry Dock / Shipyard: Builds & Questions => Pleasure boats, Sports, Race, Power and Leisure Boats: => Topic started by: w3bby on May 12, 2007, 01:05:17 AM

Title: Sigma Build
Post by: w3bby on May 12, 2007, 01:05:17 AM
Well after the various mail services attempted not to deliver it, I finally picked it up today ;D
This is the FSRO version, low cut and mean... I pictured it next to my L ynx as it gives a good idea of the size difference and other changes made.
The build will proceed slowly probably, I still have to order some stuff and a few details are not yet decided......one example is that I do not appear to have space for a 1/4 scale steer servo so I have to research and find a high torque servo to my liking.
Epoxy and carbon build. Rails are nice and sharp as is the transom.
Thanks Dave, let's hope I can do it justice.
Title: Re: Sigma Build
Post by: glennb2006 on May 12, 2007, 09:39:55 PM
Nice Ian,

did it come with the engine rails fitted included in the price?

Glenn
Title: Re: Sigma Build
Post by: w3bby on May 13, 2007, 12:27:56 AM
Hi Glenn, yes it did but I chose to have them installed. As I understand from Dave this will be so from now on. It makes for an easier build for most people. The rails are also drilled for an engine mount, mine for a Top Secret mount. This. of course, means that you set it up as Dave intended...............
I am not sold on rails (more freedom with placement of stuff without) but will see how this build goes.
Title: Re: Sigma Build
Post by: glennb2006 on May 13, 2007, 12:33:15 AM
Hello Ian.

Interesting comment. I've built a few over the years and only used rails on the last refurb, so far so good, thinking they may give a little more strength to the boat. I like them.

Should be fairly easy (depending how the stern tube is fitted) to move the motore fore and aft if required.

Have fun building it.

Glenn
Title: Re: Sigma Build
Post by: martno1fan on May 21, 2007, 04:50:24 PM
Hi Ian im looking forward to see how you progress with this boat good luck  ;) i still prefer woodys though ;D.
Title: Re: Sigma Build
Post by: 2772e on May 21, 2007, 07:23:45 PM
OOOOOH, very nice! ;)

Nice big workshop as well by the looks of things!

Regards

Simon
Title: Re: Sigma Build
Post by: w3bby on May 21, 2007, 11:50:37 PM
Nice big workshop as well by the looks of things!

My place of work.......

Still waiting on stuff.......... :(
Title: Re: Sigma Build
Post by: w3bby on June 21, 2007, 12:16:48 AM
So more stuff finally arrived, this build has been dogged by delay, first the hull, then stuff from Bluefishy and to top it off I had to go to the depot to pick up a package from Germany after that went missing for a few days.
Pics show how far I've come. Motor is in, the pre-drilled holes for the Top Secret motor mount made that easy, the motor sits so low that the bottom coil mount has to be removed. Transom is drilled and MTC stinger drive and rudder mounted. I got on and mounted the MTC sealed flex system today. The stinger is a risk as Dave has (since I ordered this one) tried a similar one on his boat without much success. Oh well if it doesn't work someone else might get to try it.
I ordered some ABC props, first time with these. The blade shape reminds of Unobtainium Propshops which I have used before but as they refuse to answer e-mail and seem not to be delivering I decided to try something else.
No "bling" just practical i hope...
More to come...
Title: Re: Sigma Build
Post by: w3bby on June 21, 2007, 12:21:38 AM
More pics. Any questions, please ask away...
As the drive MUST NOT drop below the transom I taped some scrap aluminium to the bottom while marking up. I still have to make an oiler to attach to the stuffing tube as well as a few other things.....more to come...
Title: Re: Sigma Build
Post by: martno1fan on June 21, 2007, 07:35:02 PM
Looking good Ian i like it  ;),also like the silicone tube between the stuffing tube and the coupling you wont be getting much water up there then  ;D .
Title: Re: Sigma Build
Post by: w3bby on June 22, 2007, 12:22:47 PM
Its to keep flex lubricant in Martin, not water out ;)

Here's a flush mounted water inlet being added, it still requires the final filing. Once filed flush it should provide a good drag-free water spply.
Title: Re: Sigma Build
Post by: 2772e on June 22, 2007, 06:31:20 PM
Hi ian,

Will you get enough water up the tube if its flush? I have often thought of trying that.

Regards

Simon
Title: Re: Sigma Build
Post by: martno1fan on June 22, 2007, 07:05:01 PM
Its to keep flex lubricant in Martin, not water out ;)

Here's a flush mounted water inlet being added, it still requires the final filing. Once filed flush it should provide a good drag-free water spply.
  ohh goody does two jobs in one hehe  ;D.
Title: Re: Sigma Build
Post by: w3bby on June 22, 2007, 08:39:07 PM
Will you get enough water up the tube if its flush? I have often thought of trying that.
I've seen these used on both FSR-V hulls and offshore hulls very effectively, there is really no difference between this and a rudder pickup. No need to stick things down into the flow. I suspect it all has to do with laminar flow, same as a NACA duct for air supply.
If you reverse this then you can do a very effective self-bailer as well, just run a loop over the waterline and down into the V.
Title: Re: Sigma Build
Post by: martno1fan on June 23, 2007, 08:58:36 AM
nice work Ian looks good to me and you wont get any drag from those pickups hehe nice work,hoiw does it work in reverse as a bailer ? will water not run in when the boat stops? or is there a secret you havent told us about  ;).by the way had the boat out the other day and got another video im still having problems with it cutting out after 20 mins or so rather than clutter your thread could you post your answer on mine and il delete this question thers a link to the vid on there too .
Title: Re: Sigma Build
Post by: w3bby on June 23, 2007, 10:48:19 AM
how does it work in reverse as a bailer ?
Patrick Tegelberg shows an example on MGB.com. First saw it on an aluminium piece from PiP many years ago. Basically as the boat moves it creates suction on the line which pulls out excess water. To stop water coming in when stopped you make a loop over the waterline. I used it on my jet boat with good effect.
Title: Re: Sigma Build
Post by: glennb2006 on July 03, 2007, 12:43:46 PM
Hi Ian,

how does the flex cable join onto the MTC drive / strut assembly you have fitted?

Glenn
Title: Re: Sigma Build
Post by: w3bby on July 04, 2007, 04:35:17 PM
I'll be trying Loctite 638 on this one, lots of new things to try  ::) I have the radiobox, turnfins and last stuff now. Even getting stuff from Stockholm proved a pain in the a***, over a 10 days to arrive >:(
This build is fighting me all the way timewise :(
The innards of the radiobox are proving to be a tight fit, not got it worked out yet, might have to build myself a custom box...... :-\
Title: Re: Sigma Build
Post by: glennb2006 on July 04, 2007, 04:51:23 PM
I'll be trying Loctite 638 on this one, lots of new things to try  ::) I have the radiobox, turnfins and last stuff now. Even getting stuff from Stockholm proved a pain in the a***, over a 10 days to arrive >:(
This build is fighting me all the way timewise :(
The innards of the radiobox are proving to be a tight fit, not got it worked out yet, might have to build myself a custom box...... :-\

So the round flex cable just a tight fit into the internal hole on the shaft? Thought it might have been a square with the round cable end at the motor clamped in the collet.

Interesting. Where did the stinger drive come from Ian? If you don't mind me asking.

I recently was messing on with fibreglass and managed to make some flat sheets which can easy be fabricated into a box. Just layed up some resin and matt on a sheet of glass!!
You can then incorporate soem timbers to mount servo's etc if you like. Wood edge round the top provides a good area to fit the lid too.

Glenn

Glenn
Title: Re: Sigma Build
Post by: w3bby on July 04, 2007, 07:33:11 PM
That's right, tight fit, round peg, round hole. Europeans use it so I thought I would try....Stinger is MTC from Tom Lorenz http://modellbaulorenz.de/ (http://modellbaulorenz.de/) not good English but good service ;D
I think I have the box cracked now, sort of, I don't want to buy new high torque standard servos when I have perfectly good 1/4 scale ones here..... it will be two tier ::) to fit everything in.. Otherwise your idea is good, simple and effective, me, I would have used plywood  ;)
I have some carbon fibre angle I made up that I may cut to try as a turn fin, anyone tried CF?
Title: Re: Sigma Build
Post by: glennb2006 on July 05, 2007, 12:31:48 AM
No, But I have a piece of carbon sheet about 6"x 5" you can have if it's any use. Not sure if you can get it to a sharp enough edge for a turn fin or not.

Let me know if you want it Ian.

Glenn
Title: Re: Sigma Build
Post by: w3bby on July 06, 2007, 05:47:24 PM
Thanks for the offer Glenn, keep it for your next radio tray, if I took it I'd probably sharpen it and slit my throat. Radio box is still causing hassles, can't get the rudder link to line up nicely....forgot the big corners on the Fibox enclosures and seem to have invented drilling round corners :-[ Box in place, rudder in place, mark, check, take out and drill, now they don't line up >:( >:( I guess it will be an oversize hole and cover piece.......what a waste of a Fibox  :'(
More pics to come when (if ever) I have made some progress.

Just because I can again - LYNX, lynx, Lynx. WEIRD ::)
Title: Re: Sigma Build
Post by: glennb2006 on July 07, 2007, 02:47:58 AM
Guess I will have to fit it in the Tornado then in that case. If I get the time and inclination to get it finished off properly.

Have fun Ian, it can only get better. Probably.

G
Title: Re: Sigma Build
Post by: martno1fan on July 07, 2007, 09:16:25 AM
Yea chin up Ian im sure it will start to come together soon ,at least you were honest when you made a mistake most of us keep quiet about it lol ;D and believe me we all make mistakes i must have redone my rudder 3 times on my build till i got it right ::).sit back have a few beers and all will become clearer!! OR NOT! depends how much beer you drink hehe  ;D.
Title: Re: Sigma Build
Post by: w3bby on July 13, 2007, 08:45:25 PM
Ok, here we go, more progress...Intake filed down flush.
Mounted 2 pieces of carbon angle, 1 for tacho and 1 for GPS I think (may change).
Radio box glued down to a base plate and in position, still have to make front hold downs (any good ideas?) Kindly note the BIG hole rearward to the rudder :-[
Preparing the clunk for the tank and the tank finished, this is a 1 litre tank (fun days - out and run), it may move the cg too high when full so I am also making a smaller one for testing purposes. I still have to install the filler. I use the Dubro, some people complain of air leaks but I have yet to have that problem.
Next we have some glassed in brass for cooling water, 1 each side, 1 from the rudder (cooling head, flange and front of pipe) and 1 from the flush intake (manifold/pipe union O'rngs)
Finally a self bailer as otherwise there is no way out for any collected water with this stinger drive.
Getting there but it is taking longer than I anticipated ::)
Title: Re: Sigma Build
Post by: w3bby on July 13, 2007, 08:56:26 PM
The servo problem, I am missing 5mm, yes 5mm, in this set up. Whilst I can get it in I am worried about the stress on the tightly bent leads, asking for problems I think. It looks like it will be a high torque standard servo going in, that means more delays as that was not budgeted for......I like the look of the ACE digitals but they are over 1000sek here so i guess it will have to wait a while. SWMBO visited work the other day and my daughter kindly showed her the new boat  :o As she hadn't seen the L ynx since the repaint she assumed 2 new boats  ::) Guess who has to sell something soon............

OK so I can't write L YNX as a complete word again ??? ??? ??? ???
Title: Re: Sigma Build
Post by: DickyD on July 13, 2007, 09:35:14 PM
So this is where you are hiding Ian  ???
Title: Re: Sigma Build
Post by: w3bby on July 13, 2007, 09:37:41 PM
Real life, Richard  ;D You need to be careful wandering around these parts at night  :o
Title: Re: Sigma Build
Post by: glennb2006 on July 30, 2007, 01:16:16 PM
Well Ian,

I see you are back from your holidays now, have you got any more building done yet?

Glenn
Title: Re: Sigma Build
Post by: w3bby on July 30, 2007, 02:27:50 PM
No rest for the wicked then  ::) ::) ::) Got back Saturday night and still trying to dry out  :( No progress at the moment but soon I hope  ;)

Edit. Just to please Glenn I did a little after work today but no pics yet. In between drying out the caravan, ground sheet and working out why we had over 90kgs on the towbar (not good in the winds we had coming home) I fitted the cowl locks and moved the throttle connection from the L ynx to the Sigma. Pics tomorrow maybe...

Still can't write l ynx as a complete word ??? ??? ??? without getting a

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Title: Re: Sigma Build
Post by: martno1fan on August 03, 2007, 12:49:04 AM
LINX  ;D
Title: Re: Sigma Build
Post by: w3bby on August 03, 2007, 12:56:05 AM
Bad spelling Martin  ::) Weird huh, can you write L ynx as a complete word???
Well, I'm getting somewhere. Picked up a new steering servo and got on with the box.
My way to make a servo bracket. 3mm alu 30 x 30 L-profile, files, drills, taps and hacksaw.......
Title: Re: Sigma Build
Post by: martno1fan on August 03, 2007, 11:09:14 AM
yea its very weird mate ,you stealing my ideas mate thats same way i do brackets for my servos  ;).hows the weather over there ? seems summer migh have arrived here at last.seems a lot of europe has been having crap weather too i met a cpl from holland on our hols im majorca and they say they have had a lot of rain also.youd think this country would say enoughs enough ,these water boards are doing nothing to stop the flooding ie building flood barriers etc its nothing new either 60 yrs ago floods were worse than today .to be honest this global warming bull is getting pretty boring its total rubbish.sorry rant over  >:(  ::)
Title: Re: Sigma Build
Post by: glennb2006 on August 03, 2007, 01:10:14 PM
Lynx
lynx

Seems to work OK now.

At least for me.

Hey ho. Got the engine out of the Miami to go into the new beast, more work and no time to do it. Your's is getting there now Ian. Testing in two weeks?

Glenn
Title: Re: Sigma Build
Post by: w3bby on August 03, 2007, 07:15:45 PM
2 weeks should do it (not painted though  ::)), started wiring the box today, why is there always so much wire and so little place to put it ???
Title: Re: Sigma Build
Post by: glennb2006 on August 04, 2007, 01:01:38 AM
 :) All part of the fun Ian.

G
Title: Re: Sigma Build
Post by: martno1fan on August 04, 2007, 01:55:01 PM
2 weeks should do it (not painted though  ::)), started wiring the box today, why is there always so much wire and so little place to put it ???
thats what happens when you buy tuperware boxes  ;D lol.
Title: Re: Sigma Build
Post by: pete_486 on August 08, 2007, 06:10:39 PM
hi w3bby how's this for a radio box.
ive just build this one for my mate Al........Pete
Title: Re: Sigma Build
Post by: martno1fan on August 08, 2007, 06:42:47 PM
hi w3bby how's this for a radio box.
ive just build this one for my mate Al........Pete
Wheres ho going to keep his sandwiches now Pete?.
Title: Re: Sigma Build
Post by: pete_486 on August 08, 2007, 07:00:58 PM
hello Mart ya still a cheeky b***ard  ;D.
that box you see is an electricians adaptable box it is 100% water tight and has a clear plastic lid with a rubber seal (not the ones found in the north sea either) i use them in my trade and i am not a caterer 8)............Pete
Title: Re: Sigma Build
Post by: w3bby on August 08, 2007, 08:03:02 PM
Hi Pete, that's neat ;D I have a similar enclosure which is now complete, no pics yet. Not quite as neat as yours, but it will do.
Hope to get some more pics up tomorrow ::)
Ignore Martin, he might go away and build the wooden cat he's been threatening for a while, wonder if that will have a Tupperware box in it ;)
Title: Re: Sigma Build
Post by: pete_486 on August 08, 2007, 08:39:35 PM
haw he will build a wooden one, but there again in the 40s they did have wooden sandwich boxes and maybe marts stuck in a time warp............. ;D...............Pete.

ps Mart no offence ha ha ha ha ha  ;)
Title: Re: Sigma Build
Post by: martno1fan on August 08, 2007, 10:26:30 PM
cool just teasing yaa mate ,so you might have a spare one lying around then?  ;D it will fit nice in the cat  ;D.Ian how did you guess  ::) .by the way have all the parts i need for the build apart from a rudder,still waiting for a new strut and prop to arrive .also have a new hanson pipe and header arriving friday with silencer .the cat will be zen powered with a clutch as i just like them  ;).got most of my gear from dave .not sure when the build will start but im sure it wont be long.
Title: Re: Sigma Build
Post by: pete_486 on August 08, 2007, 10:40:06 PM
gonna have to book two out on monday and blag the boss i need em ;D.
no but on a serious note ill have to pay for em maybe, if you ask him he doesnt bill you for em hes not bad like that ;).
one for my makara and one for Al's.
Title: Re: Sigma Build
Post by: w3bby on August 16, 2007, 08:13:30 PM
More progress, if everything goes to plan then we will have a launch this weekend :)
Completed radiobox, didn't turn out too badly in the end.
Tank mount in place.
Kwikfill in place, some people don't like these, so far I've had no problems with them and like the easy solution to filling the tank and only two tank connections.
Title: Re: Sigma Build
Post by: w3bby on August 16, 2007, 08:15:19 PM
Looking like a boat ;)
2 things left to do, pipe support and the oiler, tank for that hasn't arrived yet :(
Title: Re: Sigma Build
Post by: 2772e on August 16, 2007, 08:49:46 PM
Ian,

Looking good, cant wait to see her in action.

Regards

Simon
Title: Re: Sigma Build
Post by: pete_486 on August 23, 2007, 04:26:26 PM
very nice clean looking build w3bby well done.............Pete
Title: Re: Sigma Build
Post by: w3bby on August 24, 2007, 01:16:22 AM
Thanks guys, she was due in the water last Sunday and actually got to the waters edge... Had a few hours on her Saturday finishing off and then tried to start her. motor in boat - no spark, motor out of boat - spark, motor back in - no spark, out again, strip, clean all contacts - spark, in again - no spark, out again, check with known good components all good - spark, in again - well you get the drift....Finally at 9p.m I got a good consistent spark and fired the motor, all good for Sunday.
Took two boats with me, threw in the jet boat and had some fun but too bumpy kept just sucking air  ::) then over to the Sigma, refused to start >:( - no spark..... 80 mile round trip and no maiden. I've been so disgusted with both myself and the motor that I haven't even looked at it since Sunday.......
I'll do some work on it tomorrow night and hope to get her on the water Sunday...........

As I stated on an earlier post, no paint on this boat, it's all vinyl (or as some members may remember from Blue Peter with John Noakes, covered with "sticky backed plastic" ;D ;D ;D ;D).....I work with it every day so a good test of both the materials and my application skills :o If it doesn't hold up it's just to pull it all off and paint ::)
Title: Re: Sigma Build
Post by: omra85 on August 24, 2007, 06:38:48 PM
Ian
I'd be the first to admit I know zilch about sparkies but -
is there any chance of a short occurring between your HT side (eg. plug lead) and the body of the engine which only happens when you are putting the engine back in the boat, maybe through an ally mount or something.
Just an idea.
Danny
Title: Re: Sigma Build
Post by: w3bby on August 24, 2007, 11:27:53 PM
Good point Danny and that has been checked, pulled it over today after work and sparking fine  O0 working for a new maiden on Sunday if I get the chance...
Title: Re: Sigma Build
Post by: w3bby on August 29, 2007, 09:38:39 PM
Sunday didn't work out but tonight the Sigma hit the water. Very windy conditions so not ideal :( Unfortunately no pics as no one had a camera with them.
I am going to like this boat, first trial I put an ABC 3014 on, not good it wouldn't hit the pipe. Instead of playing with the pipe I put on a 7016/3 that I know works with the engine and current pipe settings and the boat came to life, fast, stable and turns well. No GPS from today but at least as fast as my L ynx on gut feeling. For a first time out and no setup I was really happy. Then threw a 2914 on and pulled the pipe out 1/4" and off it went, when the pipe came on she took off.
With time spent on the setup this is going to be one really good ride O0 O0 O0
Title: Re: Sigma Build
Post by: omra85 on August 29, 2007, 10:12:07 PM
2914?  You'll soon have to buy aircraft props for it  ;D ;D ;D
Glad it's going well.  Now take the video camera and the GPS ;)
Pity you didn't go to Leno with it - I've just seen the results and they look as though they could use a few good FSR-O boats there  ::) ::)

Danny
Title: Re: Sigma Build
Post by: w3bby on August 30, 2007, 12:24:47 AM
The Dutch and Germans like those props and I can see the potential. 3014 was an absolute pig to prepare, it felt, thick, heavy and very blunt. It took ages and a lot of material removal to sharpen it. 2914 was better as was the 2716. I intended to throw the 2716 on but hadn't checked the notches, they were badly cast and wouldn't fit on the drive dog. Compared to these the Propshops are a doddle to prepare, only problem there is getting them to reply to emails when asking questions before an order. When and if I need more Propshops I will buy from the States, quicker and something called customer service.
The Swedes and Norwegians seemed to do OK in Leno.... I wonder if I could get a UK spot in Offshore (providing I do some racing) for next year  :D :o
Pics and vids will take a while, away for the weekend partying O0
Title: Re: Sigma Build
Post by: DickyD on August 30, 2007, 08:12:24 AM
Good grief Ian, do you and Danny ever speak English or do you talk in code to keep it all secret. :-\ ???
Title: Re: Sigma Build
Post by: w3bby on August 30, 2007, 06:01:06 PM
Propellers Dicky ;) ABC 3014/2, 3.0" diameter, pitch 1.4 times diameter, 2 blades. Propshop 7016/3, 70mm dimeter, pitch 1.6 times diameter, 3 blade. What it all adds up to is d*** good fun  O0
Title: Re: Sigma Build
Post by: omra85 on August 30, 2007, 08:02:08 PM
I would imagine the 2716 would be great for straight line, but unless you're REALLY light, it will be a pig to get going after a corner.

Oh, I forgot FSR-O doesn't have corners - only nicely sweeping bends at each end!  I've heard that NAVIGA are looking into "banking" them to make cornering even easier ;D ;D

They won't let OMRA play because we're not in the MPBA, and the MPBA is the only organisation recognised by NAVIGA ::)
So unless I join the MPBA and race at 2 of the circuit event, I can't go to Internationals  :'( :'(  The circuit races in the UK are known to be incredibly exciting, sometimes having as many as 2 boats on the water at the same time  :o :o :o
Also a certain retailer of boats who you know well says we're not fast enough >:(
When I look at the Leno (or WC) results and see how well the British team did - it fills my heart with joy, knowing that the best Britain has to offer did so well.  As many as NINE laps in only 12 minutes - wow  ;D ;D ;D ;D

I'm going for a lie down in a quiet, darkened room.  (rant over)  ::)

Danny
Title: Re: Sigma Build
Post by: AC RAZOR 45 on August 31, 2007, 10:06:12 PM
More progress, if everything goes to plan then we will have a launch this weekend :)
Completed radiobox, didn't turn out too badly in the end.
Tank mount in place.
Kwikfill in place, some people don't like these, so far I've had no problems with them and like the easy solution to filling the tank and only two tank connections.

hi m8 could not see a fail safe in that radio box is it hidden ...alan
Title: Re: Sigma Build
Post by: omra85 on August 31, 2007, 10:24:18 PM
Alan
Ian races in Sweden - maybe a failsafe is optional - the have muscular blond Swedish giants who swim after the boat and catch it  ;D ;D
and some of them are blokes  ;D ;D ;D ;D

Danny
Title: Re: Sigma Build
Post by: pete_486 on August 31, 2007, 10:28:33 PM
so thats where abba went to lol...........Pete
Title: Re: Sigma Build
Post by: AC RAZOR 45 on August 31, 2007, 10:31:11 PM
NICE REPLY DANNY, SO THATS WHAT THE BLOND BIT FROM ABBA IS DOING FOR A LIVING NOW O0 O0 O0 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Sigma Build
Post by: AC RAZOR 45 on August 31, 2007, 10:33:26 PM
OH NO HERE WE GO AGAIN ON THE ABBA THEME ;D ;D
Title: Re: Sigma Build
Post by: omra85 on August 31, 2007, 10:44:04 PM
Its - "Mama mia, here we go again"
 ;D ;D
Danny
Title: Re: Sigma Build
Post by: w3bby on September 03, 2007, 03:25:37 PM
hi m8 could not see a fail safe in that radio box is it hidden ...alan

It's a Multiplex Rx, the failsafe is built in and works well O0

The less said about Abba the better.........
Title: Re: Sigma Build
Post by: 2772e on September 03, 2007, 07:27:47 PM
Son whats wrong with ABBA then, guaranteed to get you up after a few! ;D
Title: Re: Sigma Build
Post by: DaveMarles on September 12, 2007, 08:37:32 PM
I would imagine the 2716 would be great for straight line, but unless you're REALLY light, it will be a pig to get going after a corner.

Oh, I forgot FSR-O doesn't have corners - only nicely sweeping bends at each end!  I've heard that NAVIGA are looking into "banking" them to make cornering even easier ;D ;D

They won't let OMRA play because we're not in the MPBA, and the MPBA is the only organisation recognised by NAVIGA ::)
So unless I join the MPBA and race at 2 of the circuit event, I can't go to Internationals  :'( :'(  The circuit races in the UK are known to be incredibly exciting, sometimes having as many as 2 boats on the water at the same time  :o :o :o
Also a certain retailer of boats who you know well says we're not fast enough >:(
When I look at the Leno (or WC) results and see how well the British team did - it fills my heart with joy, knowing that the best Britain has to offer did so well.  As many as NINE laps in only 12 minutes - wow  ;D ;D ;D ;D
I'm going for a lie down in a quiet, darkened room.  (rant over)  ::)
Danny

Danny I don't know why you feel the need to decry the efforts of others at International races. I would suggest you have a go yourself and then we can all applaud if you win.
     Regarding the International at Leno in August, I think we had only 2 competitors in the Naviga offshore there and very difficult hot conditions.  Re.the 2007 World Champs, I noticed that the Brits won a gold medal and a silver medal in Naviga Offshore which doesn't seem too bad considering there are only 4 senior classes and a LOT of boats and very experienced international racers in the competition, but perhaps you had not noticed that. 
    The Naviga offshore course is similar to the OMRA course that was used at Telford earlier this year (except the Naviga straights are longer) and so I don't understand your sniping over that either.  If you think the Naviga offshore boats couldn't run on an OMRA course, then think again because many could run on an FSRV course.
    As for the the MPBA being the only UK association affiliated to Naviga, I'm reminded of the lottery advert,  'To win it you have to be in it'. 
   
 Dave
   
   
Title: Re: Sigma Build
Post by: omra85 on September 12, 2007, 10:31:58 PM
(Sorry to hijack your thread Ian but.... )

Dave
My views on the misrepresentation of OFFSHORE model boat racing are well known.
It is a fact that ANY member of OMRA has to join the MPBA in order to compete in so-called offshore internationals (which are run to NAVIGA rules), including the World Championships.  The racing that NAVIGA manages is NOT offshore and usually takes place on similar lakes to multi.  The rules are more like the UK circuit racing which seems to have less support than multi.
So to race in the WC's, I have to join the MPBA again (lets not forget that I served 2 years as Midland area MPBA secretary, 5 years as MPBA multi secretary, and 1 (or 2?) years as MPBA multi chairman) and then race in two circuit races (most of the racers who I don't even know) to enable me to enter the Eliminators - which would be held if there was more interest!
OMRA is bigger than multi with more competitors (check the relative drivers championship tables) and hold more events yet do not even receive recognition from our National body or NAVIGA.
I am not 'sniping' at the individuals racing in the internationals or the WC's only at the methods used to enable them to be there in the first place. They are supposed to be representing Great Britain therefore should be the best and if that means altering the entry criteria to get more interest and the best competitors, or to include GENUINE offshore racers then that would only be a good thing.
So long as OMRA and the MPBA are not talking, this will go on - which saddens me, not because I want to "play in your backyard" but I know there are others who, given a bit of encouragement, would be delighted to be offered the chance to represent their country doing what they enjoy most.
NAVIGA, in turn, are not listening (or being given the correct information) as to how real offshore races are held so seem to be catering for people who like short fast races with no rescue (circuit).
I can hardly expect an unbiased opinion from you as you are in the business of selling boats both here and abroad so obviously you will be supporting the group buying most of your boats. You do, however, have influence with senior members of the MPBA and NAVIGA and could, should you so desire, influence decisions made about the entry criteria or the fact that only ONE national body is recognised for ALL types of model boating.  It seems unfortunate that the only type of model boating NOT incorporated in the MPBA is offshore (apart from the fact that there is one position for "offshore secretary" within the Circuit racing section which is currently vacant).  The fact that it is vacant, with so many active offshore racers should SHOUT something to the MPBA and that is that we do NOT want to be a sub section of Circuit Racing - which presumably is why so few in OMRA want to join the MPBA.
And thus why many good and dedicated racers do not enter the WC's.
Danny
 
Title: Re: Sigma Build
Post by: martno1fan on September 12, 2007, 10:55:23 PM
Wow Danny take a deep breath have a few beers and chill mate  O0,good post though and well put i felt  ;).
Title: Re: Sigma Build
Post by: w3bby on September 13, 2007, 08:12:47 AM
Interesting discussion, what is "Offshore"? I can relate to both camps... Me, I would like to see the offshore class run on a different shaped course every race weekend with right and left turns, tight turns, long straights and short straights, mix it up and watch the boats develop.... O0 O0

Having two organizations in the UK for such a small sport/hobby as rc boating seems slightly ridiculous, with the number of people involved one umbrella organization must be able to present a better case to authorities and councils when looking for places to run. One only needs to look at the US to see what problems two similar organizations can cause ::)

"O" may be offshore but it relates more to the type of drive and hull than ability to run on the open sea, it describes a racing boat adjusted to its racing conditions. Sure, it is more like circuit racing at the Naviga Worlds with the oval course, so be it. The only way to adjust that is to get Naviga to revert to an M course. The current course for Naviga FSR-O was voted in not too long ago, pushed by the Norwegians I believe, one of the reasons being that their large monos/catamarans had great difficulty on a M course.

Here in Sweden the "O" drivers think that the oval course is boring/not challenging, so nationally they still race their championship on a M course, this does not mean they need a second organization to do it... Due to the fact that boats set up this way are not the always at their best on an oval they run a special race weekend to decide World Championship participation, should one wish to this is the only race needed to get to the Worlds.

Danny, unfortunately for you, NAVIGA is the recognized world body for boating, to change the rules you need to be in the organization, I guess the MPBA is the same. As you have a functioning system maybe you should apply to NAVIGA for accreditation, failing that discussions with MPBA would be good, they surely don't want to turn away a successful group of modellers... A solution similar to the Swedish may be a way forward  ;)