Model Boat Mayhem - Forum

Dry Dock / Shipyard: Builds & Questions => Yachts and Sail => Topic started by: triumphjon on November 28, 2012, 07:58:40 AM

Title: rebiulld / restoration of a coastal thames barge
Post by: triumphjon on November 28, 2012, 07:58:40 AM
having been sailing my fishing smack and bantam tug at a local lake , somebody offered me a large thames barge , i was told it has some damage around the bow area  which may be fillable !  having had a soft spot for the thames barge for many years ive taken the plunge and gone to collect the model , after some initial inspection the damage didnt look too bad , a little mishaped over the first four inches at the bows  mostly at deck level , the front hatch was a dummy , which i removed last saturday and cut a hole in the deck to get a sail arm servo inside , the construction of this pre loved model is heavy timber , all of the bulkheads are cut from 12mm plywood , the keel is 12mm pine . with the hole now cut and the remains of two bulkheads nibbled away i needed to make some holes to allow the sheet lines through the bulkheads , a 63mm dia . holesaw was borrowed , and duly cut my holes , next i elected to remove the bulwarks which were far too low , it was then i realised just how badly out of shape the bow was ! ! its like two different boats joined along the keel ! with this in mind ive taken the next step and tried removing the paint , only to find a strange method of construction , the outer hull was painted over some alloy type tape , which was stuck to a layer of veneer , beneath this was some matting and epoxy , which had been covering the inner shell of balsa . ive now stripped everything down to the frames which are going to be reprofiled to match each side before replanking can begin , i will try to add some photos later . jon
Title: Re: rebiulld / restoration of a coastal thames barge
Post by: triumphjon on November 29, 2012, 07:42:57 AM
ive tried to add photos , but the system keeps telling me file to large ?  , progress is continuing  , ive removed everything from the frames and shall be reprofiling them later so that each side is symetrical  ! them i shall need to let in a few stringers before i can start the reskinning process , im thinking of using 1/ 16 ply midships and double diagonal balsa planking at each end , the entire model will then be coated with fine tissue matting and polyester resin !
Title: Re: rebiulld / restoration of a coastal thames barge
Post by: mrpenguin on November 29, 2012, 11:15:53 AM
@triumphjon:
From my experience, this forum limits you to very low resolution pictures (about 170 Kb as I recall)
You will need to reduce / resize the pictures and save them in a lower resolution.
If you are a Windows user, the "Paint" application (usually in Accessories) should have a "resize" function - try reducing your pictures to 800 x 600 pixels or thereabouts, file size should then be acceptable for upload. If theere is a tick box to control aspect ratio, leave this selected otherwise you may get short fat pics or even tall thin pics....!!!
Open Paint, load the picture, use "resize" function.Then use "Save As" and save the reduced file where you can find it for upload. Dont overwrite your original photo...
If you cannot do it with paint, there are hundreds of free picture resize applications about.
Hope this helps...
Title: Re: rebiulld / restoration of a coastal thames barge
Post by: triumphjon on November 29, 2012, 06:50:30 PM
im sorry im still a technophobe , i dont understand how to alter photos or to paste etc , but i enjoy making the models , or working on my old car ! jon
Title: Re: rebiulld / restoration of a coastal thames barge
Post by: mrpenguin on November 29, 2012, 07:41:10 PM
No worries Jon...
If you need some help, ask a teenager (grin) - they know everything...
Title: Re: rebiulld / restoration of a coastal thames barge
Post by: triumphjon on November 29, 2012, 09:06:55 PM
dont have children yet alone teenagers in my lifestyle ! not even used a computer until i moved in with my partner in late 2009 as i deemed it couldnt repair my cars yet alone drive for me . as for the progress ive only managed to cut two replacement bulkheads this evening , cant do any more noisy tasks due to living in a flat !  jon
Title: Re: rebiulld / restoration of a coastal thames barge
Post by: essex2visuvesi on November 30, 2012, 05:44:08 AM
Jon emailed me these pics last night.  As he has been extremely helpful with my Huntsman build I offered to host and post pics on his behalf, as they say what goes around... :)

(http://i532.photobucket.com/albums/ee322/Essex2Visuvesi/Jons%20Thames%20Barge%20restoration/093.jpg)

(http://i532.photobucket.com/albums/ee322/Essex2Visuvesi/Jons%20Thames%20Barge%20restoration/096.jpg)

(http://i532.photobucket.com/albums/ee322/Essex2Visuvesi/Jons%20Thames%20Barge%20restoration/103.jpg)

(http://i532.photobucket.com/albums/ee322/Essex2Visuvesi/Jons%20Thames%20Barge%20restoration/116.jpg)

Looking at these photos has actually got me thinking its about time I did a bit more on Will :)
Title: Re: rebiulld / restoration of a coastal thames barge
Post by: triumphjon on November 30, 2012, 07:51:07 AM
thank you essex , ive been looking at more bulkheads towards the stern , which will have to be knocked out and replaced  just to give a smoother flow when i start replanking , the one before the transom is so high it makes a very steep last drop , theres also one or two that were never centralised on the keel ! its a shame because somebody must have taken quite some time to build the model originally ?  jon
Title: Re: rebiulld / restoration of a coastal thames barge
Post by: essex2visuvesi on November 30, 2012, 08:20:51 AM
I have to admire your tenacity.... I would have consigned it to the bin

Should turn out to be a cracking model when its done tho
Title: Re: rebiulld / restoration of a coastal thames barge
Post by: unbuiltnautilus on November 30, 2012, 09:35:34 AM
Looking 'good'!  I am proud of the offcut hull skin you gave me, and am considering using the rather unusual method of construction on a future project.
Title: Re: rebiulld / restoration of a coastal thames barge
Post by: triumphjon on November 30, 2012, 09:42:08 PM
the very large wheelie bin at the rear of our flat was considered , but decided against as id still have masts and sails to find another hull for ! just three new bulkheads for the midships have been cut  and sanded to profile before being fitted onto the keel , new keel doublers have also been cut from 2"x1" pine and screwed  "n" glued in place , the next three bulheads from the midship to transom have now been removed in preperation for replacement , hoping to start replanking/ skinning the hull some time next week ! jon
Title: Re: rebiulld / restoration of a coastal thames barge
Post by: mrpenguin on December 01, 2012, 01:08:38 AM
Thanks for the photos Jon, they say a picture is worth a thousand words..... O0
You are certainly getting stuck into it.... that is some MAJOR renovation  :-))
What are those boards on the side called? Larboards or something? Are you going to radio control them? <*<
 
Title: Re: rebiulld / restoration of a coastal thames barge
Post by: triumphjon on December 01, 2012, 07:53:23 AM
thank you , ive not given the leeboard operation too much thought yet , i suppose it would only take a standard servo with an arm to lower each side as required ?  as i already use the planet multi chanel radio its always possible , although i was planning to have an extra central keel bolted in place for sailing , dont know if having a leeboard dropped down will alter its sailing ability ?  jon
Title: Re: rebiulld / restoration of a coastal thames barge
Post by: mrpenguin on December 01, 2012, 12:43:31 PM
Jon,
 
I think the leeboard (if that is the correct term)  was used in place of the keel you are planning. The barges need to be shallow draft because of the waters they operate in. I believe the boards are supposed to be slightly concave (on the outer side).
Because these barges also operate in canals, they need the mizzen mast and sail to allow them to tack / turn.
If planning to use the leeboards, you only lower the lee side one on each tack.... so extra complication with the servos...
Title: Re: rebiulld / restoration of a coastal thames barge
Post by: triumphjon on December 01, 2012, 07:25:46 PM
you quite right mrpenguine , i know most barge models are being operated with a centre keel  like the type used on the racing yachts , i wouldnt mind one of the winged type like my brother in law has on his australia2  , as it allows him to sail in shallower waters ! just made up the templates and cut another two aft bulkheads tonight , and knocked out the transom , unfortunalty this has taken a section of the deck with it , so answered another question ive been asking myself for the last couple of days , shall i  / / shant i ? replace the  original deck which has already got several splits along its length , its now going to have a new one in 1/16th birch ply ! ! the only sections that will remain from the original build are the keel and one bulkhead . more photos soon . jon
Title: Re: rebiulld / restoration of a coastal thames barge
Post by: essex2visuvesi on December 03, 2012, 08:03:45 AM
A few more progress pics from Jon
(http://i532.photobucket.com/albums/ee322/Essex2Visuvesi/Jons%20Thames%20Barge%20restoration/003.jpg)
(http://i532.photobucket.com/albums/ee322/Essex2Visuvesi/Jons%20Thames%20Barge%20restoration/004.jpg)
(http://i532.photobucket.com/albums/ee322/Essex2Visuvesi/Jons%20Thames%20Barge%20restoration/005.jpg)
(http://i532.photobucket.com/albums/ee322/Essex2Visuvesi/Jons%20Thames%20Barge%20restoration/006.jpg)
(http://i532.photobucket.com/albums/ee322/Essex2Visuvesi/Jons%20Thames%20Barge%20restoration/007.jpg)
(http://i532.photobucket.com/albums/ee322/Essex2Visuvesi/Jons%20Thames%20Barge%20restoration/008.jpg)
(http://i532.photobucket.com/albums/ee322/Essex2Visuvesi/Jons%20Thames%20Barge%20restoration/010.jpg)
(http://i532.photobucket.com/albums/ee322/Essex2Visuvesi/Jons%20Thames%20Barge%20restoration/011.jpg)
(http://i532.photobucket.com/albums/ee322/Essex2Visuvesi/Jons%20Thames%20Barge%20restoration/013.jpg)
(http://i532.photobucket.com/albums/ee322/Essex2Visuvesi/Jons%20Thames%20Barge%20restoration/015.jpg)
Title: Re: rebiulld / restoration of a coastal thames barge
Post by: triumphjon on December 03, 2012, 08:17:22 AM
thank you , as we can see ive got a little more done , all of the aft section bulkheads and transom have been replaced , they were either mishaped or coated in some golden goup which had the consistency of cold golden syrup ! ive stared to replank the stern , and should get the midships panneled later today . jon
Title: Re: rebiulld / restoration of a coastal thames barge
Post by: slug on December 04, 2012, 06:16:45 AM
what a job you have taken on,you are doing  very well..what size is the barge? looks fairley big,will look lovely when done...slug
Title: Re: rebiulld / restoration of a coastal thames barge
Post by: triumphjon on December 04, 2012, 07:27:53 AM
good morning slug , the barge is around 47 " from stem to stern , not including the rudder , so yes its quite a large hull ! i must admit it wasnt originally intended to be a full hull build but after trying to remove the paint for inspection to remedy the odd bow shape  i kept finding previous mistakes in the build , but its now develpoed into almost a complete new boat , ive managed to retain the original keel and two of the bulkheads towards the bow , the rest have been cut from new 9mm plywood but have had their centres removed , a new birch ply deck is also being fitted , im as yet undecided as to weather id like to plank the decking or just paint it , but ive got a sheet of teak veneer on the shelf ! ? the first layer of planking around the stern has almost been completed yesterday , jon
Title: Re: rebiulld / restoration of a coastal thames barge
Post by: triumphjon on December 06, 2012, 12:16:14 PM
just a little more progress , the aft section has has its first layer of planking , its also been smoothed down in preperation for the second layer , ive just been around the corner and collected another three balsa sheets to skin the midship sides in , ive also removed the original deck and fitted some stringers between the bulkheads ready to support the new sub deck , hoping to have both midship sides skinned later today , then ive got to sort the bow section , which is how this project started off ! more photos to follow later . jon
Title: Re: rebiulld / restoration of a coastal thames barge
Post by: slug on December 06, 2012, 07:50:24 PM
looking forward to more photos,gliders in newark do ready planking in sheets approx 3ft by 6inch planks from 5mm-10 mm looks quite good----slug
Title: Re: rebiulld / restoration of a coastal thames barge
Post by: tobyker on December 07, 2012, 12:54:12 AM
Its beginning to look like one of those restorations where they replace all the planking on the old ribs, then take the ribs out one by one and replace them. Or like the Land Rover my mate sold - the lucky recipient said he had to jack up the radiator cap and replace everything else! Surely one servo will do for the leeboards if they are linked - once they are down the water presure should hold them against the side of the hull.
Title: Re: rebiulld / restoration of a coastal thames barge
Post by: mrpenguin on December 07, 2012, 01:08:20 AM
Sounds like my grandfather's axe - it has had four heads and three handles.... %%
Thinking that the leeboards may need to be driven down - sideways water pressure once they are part way down (and perhaps also flotation) might stop them going all the way down...?
Title: Re: rebiulld / restoration of a coastal thames barge
Post by: slug on December 07, 2012, 05:55:36 AM
good morning triumphjon, saw a model barge on e/bay,the bottom third of he leeboards were lead  would that do away with an extra keel... slug
Title: Re: rebiulld / restoration of a coastal thames barge
Post by: triumphjon on December 07, 2012, 08:03:31 AM
its taken on that style tobyker , what started as a " just rectify the mishaped bow " has very quickly developed into a complete restoration ! but its no good leaving a mishaped bulkhead in place , as we all know it will niggle us knowing its wrong ! !  Although ive skinned the aft section and one midships sides i had a little break from skinning yesterday to sort out the sail arm servo mount which will sit below the front hatch ( much easier to see what im doing with half a boat missing ) i intend to have full control of both main and jib sails from a single servo so will have two sheet lines from the same arm . most models ive looked at have the rudder servo above deck level up on the stern , im not too sure i like the idea of it there with it being close to the elements ? ( i mainly sail in salt water ! ) should be back to the side skins today , then onto the stem peice which was too short , and the solid bow blocks to shape , jon
Title: Re: rebiulld / restoration of a coastal thames barge
Post by: essex2visuvesi on December 08, 2012, 10:47:00 AM
Some more pics were set to me last night
(http://i532.photobucket.com/albums/ee322/Essex2Visuvesi/Jons%20Thames%20Barge%20restoration/001.jpg)
(http://i532.photobucket.com/albums/ee322/Essex2Visuvesi/Jons%20Thames%20Barge%20restoration/002.jpg)
(http://i532.photobucket.com/albums/ee322/Essex2Visuvesi/Jons%20Thames%20Barge%20restoration/003.jpg)
 (http://i532.photobucket.com/albums/ee322/Essex2Visuvesi/Jons%20Thames%20Barge%20restoration/004.jpg)
 (http://i532.photobucket.com/albums/ee322/Essex2Visuvesi/Jons%20Thames%20Barge%20restoration/005.jpg)
 (http://i532.photobucket.com/albums/ee322/Essex2Visuvesi/Jons%20Thames%20Barge%20restoration/006.jpg)
 (http://i532.photobucket.com/albums/ee322/Essex2Visuvesi/Jons%20Thames%20Barge%20restoration/007.jpg)
 (http://i532.photobucket.com/albums/ee322/Essex2Visuvesi/Jons%20Thames%20Barge%20restoration/008.jpg)
 (http://i532.photobucket.com/albums/ee322/Essex2Visuvesi/Jons%20Thames%20Barge%20restoration/009.jpg)
 (http://i532.photobucket.com/albums/ee322/Essex2Visuvesi/Jons%20Thames%20Barge%20restoration/010.jpg)
 (http://i532.photobucket.com/albums/ee322/Essex2Visuvesi/Jons%20Thames%20Barge%20restoration/011.jpg)
 (http://i532.photobucket.com/albums/ee322/Essex2Visuvesi/Jons%20Thames%20Barge%20restoration/012.jpg)
 
Certainly coming along rather nicely
Title: Re: rebiulld / restoration of a coastal thames barge
Post by: triumphjon on December 08, 2012, 09:59:47 PM
ive progressed to making up the solid balsa bow blocks , lots of wood shaving and sanding ! once they have been made identical they too will be glued to the keel / stem and back to the bulkhead , going to take a short break as i need to machine a new adapter plate for a brushless motor to fit into my graupner mini waterjet ! jon
Title: Re: rebiulld / restoration of a coastal thames barge
Post by: triumphjon on December 11, 2012, 06:51:13 PM
the short break was very short , took less than an hour in my mates workshop ( machine shop at the bottom of his garden ) to fabricate my adapter plate , im now back onto the restoration of my barge  . both the port & starboard bow blocks have been carved from solid balsa and glued onto the keel / stem and first bulkhead , ive now started to infill the planking between the midships and bow block . jon
Title: Re: rebiulld / restoration of a coastal thames barge
Post by: triumphjon on December 13, 2012, 08:08:46 AM
the second skin of diagonal planking has now been glued in place along the entire hull , and has been sanded to a smooth and flowing shape , just the opposite side to second skin , ive also started shaping the sub deck , which will be in two halves joined along the centre , im still undecided weather to individually plank the deck or have it painted ? more photos to follow  jon
Title: Re: rebiulld / restoration of a coastal thames barge
Post by: essex2visuvesi on December 13, 2012, 12:09:30 PM
The photos to follow :)
(http://i532.photobucket.com/albums/ee322/Essex2Visuvesi/Jons%20Thames%20Barge%20restoration/001-1.jpg)
(http://i532.photobucket.com/albums/ee322/Essex2Visuvesi/Jons%20Thames%20Barge%20restoration/003-2.jpg)
(http://i532.photobucket.com/albums/ee322/Essex2Visuvesi/Jons%20Thames%20Barge%20restoration/005-2.jpg)
(http://i532.photobucket.com/albums/ee322/Essex2Visuvesi/Jons%20Thames%20Barge%20restoration/009-2.jpg)
(http://i532.photobucket.com/albums/ee322/Essex2Visuvesi/Jons%20Thames%20Barge%20restoration/010-2.jpg)
(http://i532.photobucket.com/albums/ee322/Essex2Visuvesi/Jons%20Thames%20Barge%20restoration/011-2.jpg)
(http://i532.photobucket.com/albums/ee322/Essex2Visuvesi/Jons%20Thames%20Barge%20restoration/012-1.jpg)
Title: Re: rebiulld / restoration of a coastal thames barge
Post by: mrpenguin on December 13, 2012, 09:34:38 PM
That's better, it is starting to look like a boat again!!!
 :-)
Title: Re: rebiulld / restoration of a coastal thames barge
Post by: triumphjon on December 14, 2012, 09:26:09 PM
yes slowly its starting to resemble a sailing barge hull once more , i had a slight change when i started to lay the second layer of planking and ive continued the planking along the complete length of the hull , hoping it will help make the hull a little stronger , before i laminate the hull & bulwarks in grp ? im also shaping the two halves of deck before i fit the bulwarks , working on the theory it will be much easier to offer up the decking ! jon
Title: Re: rebiulld / restoration of a coastal thames barge
Post by: Captain Povey on December 15, 2012, 12:27:25 PM
Hi there Triumphjon, your restoration is certainly a work of art and labour of love. Congratulations on doing such a thorough job. She will be worth the effort. I recently completed a build of a Thames barge and referred a lot to the Association of Model Barge Owners. They have a lot of detailed advice and are worth contacting if you havn't already done so. I also referred to books such as 'An Illustrated guide to Thames Sailing Barges' by Peter & Rita Phillips, 'Sailing Barges' by Martin Hazell, 'The Thames Sailing Barge, Her Gear and Rigging' by Dennis J Davis and 'Spritsail Bargemen' by Derek Coombe. I have not had a lot of experience of sailing this sort of model but considering the amount of sail she will carry, for what its worth, I would suggest you forget the leeboard control and go for a cental fixed keel. There is a picture on here under 'Thames Barge' showing my 'Betty May' caught in a gust of wind. The hand rails are very close to the water line and she has 3kg of lead hanging 300mm below the bottom of the hull and a further !kg in the hull. Keep up the good work. Graham.  :-))
Title: Re: rebiulld / restoration of a coastal thames barge
Post by: triumphjon on December 15, 2012, 01:55:04 PM
thank you graham , i keep looking in our maritime bookstore , its typical when i didnt have the barge they had books on them in stock , now theyd be of use the shop hasnt got any ! ive joined the A M B O  forum just over a week ago , so hoping to gain some inspiration . dont think the leeboards would give me the stability that im going to need , so having an underslung keel is the better way to go , i quite like the wing keel , my brother in laws australia 2 has one and it works very well as it also allows sailing in shallower waters , and hasnt to date got snagged in the weed !  jon
Title: Re: rebiulld / restoration of a coastal thames barge
Post by: Netleyned on December 15, 2012, 02:54:46 PM
Looking good so far Jon,
defo a keel as opposed to leeboards for stability.
On your original post the mizzen looks a lot bigger than
the norm on a tsb.
I was just a pocket hanky of a sail for help in manoeuvering.


Ned
Title: Re: rebiulld / restoration of a coastal thames barge
Post by: triumphjon on December 15, 2012, 05:10:27 PM
not really sure if the sails are the correct size or maybe oversize , it was what it was wearing when i collected the model . the bowsprit that was fitted also looks very long to my eyes too , it makes the overall length from 50 1/2 inches stem to rudder to over 68 inches long ! i was planing to have the sprit  but only use it for light airs , in the same way i can remove sails should the wind be much stronger .
Title: Re: rebiulld / restoration of a coastal thames barge
Post by: triumphjon on December 21, 2012, 09:37:42 PM
not much been done to the barge this week  , ive been side tracked with trying to prepare a couple of models for an end of year three mile sail ! , however the second layer of planking is almost finished , the sub deck has been shaped and the planking for the  deck has been ordered . following a little digging i now know which barge ive got , its WILL EVERARD  built from the 1952 plan in model maker , it will probably not be called WILL  but may become one of the other three  that were part of the same batch of four vessels that everard owned in the 30s . jon