Model Boat Mayhem
The Shipyard ( Dry Dock ): Builds & Questions => Navy - Military - Battleships: => Topic started by: FLAT-TOP-FLYER on December 07, 2012, 06:15:21 pm
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Well here we have "Another 46" FireBoat restoration"
This was bought on Ebay with another boat (Aerokits Swordsman), and was a birthday present from my daughter back in October.
Its in very good condition for its age, was I.C. powered originally, but its getting twin brushless motors for this restoration project.
So let the restoration begin.... <*<
(http://i1280.photobucket.com/albums/a493/flying-flees/modelboat%20mayhem/DSCN1016-1.jpg)
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Don't forget the photos
Jimmy
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The RAF 'Crash' tender... it's such a great shape boat isn't it!
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Plenty more pictures to come Jim, and yes Martin "she's in good shape"
This picture shows the engine bay, prior to getting a make-over... <*<
http://s1280.beta.photobucket.com/user/flying-flees/media/modelboat%20mayhem/DSCN1012-1.jpg.html
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(http://i1280.photobucket.com/albums/a493/flying-flees/modelboat%20mayhem/DSCN1012-1.jpg)
Thought I would put it up for you
Dave
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Cheers Dave...... :-)) thanks for that, having a " >>:-( " moment with photobucket....
Mike
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First thing I'm going to do is remove the paint, doing this with paint stripper, is a pain rubber gloves, etc.,......but a e-mail from Peter Henshaw, and he recommended this stuff. "Fairy Power Spray" Its been difficult to track down, as not all stores sell it, but finally found in a well known supermarket.....at £3.50, a tad expensive for the amount you get, but it certainly worked..and its more user friendly.
The pic shows what its done....I left it to soak overnight, it does say after 30 mins its useable, but you will find if you leave it overnight then it will soften enough to remove 3 layers of paint.
(http://i1280.photobucket.com/albums/a493/flying-flees/modelboat%20mayhem/DSCN1021-1.jpg)
the restoration continues.... <*<
Mike
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The restoration continues.... <*<
I have removed the original motor mount, it was covered in oil, and had different glues used in its life time, as the engine mount look as though it had been modified several times.
This was a tricky operation, basically a "hammer and chisel" job, as I didn't want to damage the outer skins,tread carefully was the order of the day.
The mission was successful as this picture was taken early on in the operation.
(http://i1280.photobucket.com/albums/a493/flying-flees/modelboat%20mayhem/DSCN1042.jpg)
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The restoration continues........ <*< <*<
The engine mount has been removed, still bits of glue/paint left to remove, and more elbow grease needed, and reaching the point of thinking about the hardware I'm going to need...shafts, motors..etc.,
(http://i1280.photobucket.com/albums/a493/flying-flees/DSCN1126.jpg)
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The restoration continues....... <*<
This is were I cheated a bit :embarrassed: :embarrassed: ....had got most of the paint of, and my best mate, and fellow "Fire-Boater" Les....took the boat away, as he has a big garage, and a proper sander, and got to work......and this is the result.... :-))
Has save me a lot of work.....cheers Les.... :-)
(http://i1280.photobucket.com/albums/a493/flying-flees/DSCN1127.jpg)
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The restoration continues....... <*<
After my mate Les had removed the remaining paint, several floors appeared on the hull. These are the bits of paint not removed by the sanding operation, and indicated that there had been a few collisions with the quay-side. The split by the cabin area will be plated from the inside, then filled with filler from the outside. Will probably just fill the remaining splits from the outside, as I do not wish to take of the skins.
I am following RED181's method and covering the hull with glass cloth, so it should be ok... {:-{
(http://i1280.photobucket.com/albums/a493/flying-flees/DSCN1131.jpg)
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The restoration continues.... <*<
Have gutted the engine room, middle former has been removed and the keel braces...but there are sign of the skins delaminating.. <:( after removing the paint....so have a few hard decisions to make.. {:-{ and certain areas were the skins have not been glued to the formers.
Any suggestions will be more than welcome
Mike
(http://i1280.photobucket.com/albums/a493/flying-flees/DSCN1134.jpg)
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Right then where the skins are delaminating off the formers why not use 2 part epoxy glue and simply run a bead between the former and the part which is delaminating
Dave
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Hi Dave
thanks for the advice, but since I have posted the last picture, its worse than looks, and it could involve removing the skins.. >:-o
Will report in the near future
Mike
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It looks like the fuel has leached into the layers of ply and attacked the glue. If this is the case epoxying the top ply layer will not be enough.
Time to think about re-skinning the affected area.
Ned
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Hi Ned
It looks like thats going to be the only way-out.....don't want to spend time and energy glassing the hull and its de-laminating on the inside.
I.C. engine fuel can do a lot of damage and even when you think you have sealed everything.
Mike
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Marine ply may be "Wash and Boil Proof but is it wash and Oil proof?
Sadly, most of the "Antique" (???) finds are a residue of an era when propper engines were fitted and are now re-kitting themselves. Something the buyer must be aware of when going down the "Flee" corridors
Regards Ian
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The restoration continues...... <*<
Hi Ian
The bottom skin has been removed, and the delaminating can clearly be seen, and just glad I did take most of the paint off from the inside.
So its off with the old skins and on with the new.... :}
(http://i1280.photobucket.com/albums/a493/flying-flees/DSCN1140.jpg)
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Well the festive season continues, and not a great deal has happened to "the restoration..... <*< "
But this is the state of play so far....after much humming and harring, the skins are being removed. Several things have come to light and which seems common to both versions of the Aerokits "FireBoats" and is the way in which the "chine stringers" slot into the front formers. Its probably not that clear in this picture, but I have sanded the chine stringers and if left would not give much support to the skins. So these will have to come of as well... >:-o
(http://i1280.photobucket.com/albums/a493/flying-flees/DSCN1170.jpg)
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This picture shows what I was going on in the previous post, you can see the difference after the chine stringers have been sanded to follow the formers....not much material would be left.
(http://i1280.photobucket.com/albums/a493/flying-flees/DSCN1173.jpg)
the restoration continues.... <*<
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Problem might be my end but I can't see that last pic. You have your work cut out there but the final product will be all the more appreciated for that.
Dave
Edit ..... Oops can see pic now :embarrassed:
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So its off with the old skins and on with the new.... (http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/Smileys/Tug/grin1.gif)
And in the words of Del boy, "You know it makes sense" Castor Oil may be waterproof but there's no strenght in laminations of wood rattling against each other.
Don't know about AeroKits bigger offerings but I'm nearly sure that the smaller (Up to 36") boats had bow blocks (Balsa) so were solid where the bottom skin ended at B1. So the chine stringer only had to support the side sheet.?
Regards Ian.
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I feel for you :(( turning out to be a real big job
The front deck is a weak point, whilst at this stage, check that for delamination, after a number of front end knocks, they usually end up with water leaks, that are not very evident when fully built up, if you intend to have a reasonably fast performance, remember that the spray rails form a very important part of the handling on this boat, oversize them! I speak from experience here! if undersized, the hull will have a terrible roll when turning, and will not plane very well. I used plastic on my 48" as its stronger than wood and less likely to get knocked out of shape, or end up with the corners rounded, www.ema-models.co,uk (http://www.ema-models.co,uk) do suitable long lengths that are quite hard to find, and Steve at scale hobbies in skelmersdale has a box full of very long lengths, hope that helps, Paul :-))
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I feel for you :(( turning out to be a real big job
The front deck is a weak point, whilst at this stage, check that for delamination, after a number of front end knocks, they usually end up with water leaks, that are not very evident when fully built up, if you intend to have a reasonably fast performance, remember that the spray rails form a very important part of the handling on this boat, oversize them! I speak from experience here! if undersized, the hull will have a terrible roll when turning, and will not plane very well. I used plastic on my 48" as its stronger than wood and less likely to get knocked out of shape, or end up with the corners rounded, www.ema-models.co,uk (http://www.ema-models.co,uk) do suitable long lengths that are quite hard to find, and Steve at scale hobbies in skelmersdale has a box full of very long lengths, hope that helps, Paul :-))
Correction to link in previous post . . www.ema-models.co.uk (http://www.ema-models.co.uk/)
Richard
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Hi Dave
Looks like a trip to "Specsavers" for you in the New Year.... ok2
All the best
Mike
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Hi Ian
I do not have any evidence that the FireBoats kits had block balsa on the bow, have an original drawing and it does not show block balsa bow. However I have considered this on both the 34" & 46" FireBoats. Would make life a lot easier "I think"
Thanks Ian
regards
Mike
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Hi Paul
Thanks for the advice, certainly the way to go me thinks... %)
All the best
Mike
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The restoration continues..... <*<
Have taken of the bottom skins and also the rear keel section, I'm going to replace the rear keel, as I'm having twin drive the original prop shaft will disappear with the new keel fitted.
Also having the hull in this state can get at the formers and fill all those holes in... :-))
The big question is should I block the bow.... %)
Mike
(http://i1280.photobucket.com/albums/a493/flying-flees/DSCN1175.jpg)
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With the keel out, providing you can keep the frame square and aligned you might consider making the holes in the formers bigger as in lightening the structure? Cutting out the centres to leave a 1 1/4" (30mm) "rim" should be more than adequate. If you do "Block" the front, you can relieve the back of the blocks. If you're going to skin the hull with epoxy/fabric, you could also use blocks of extruded (blue or pink) foam, not the beaded type and only with EPOXY.
Regards Ian.
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I'm with circlip all the way, cut out the centres make it lighter, horrible job you have there Mike, I finished the monitors (at last) tonight, your work rate is much faster than mine!
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HAPPY NEW YEAR TO ONE AND ALL....... :-))
The restoration continues....... <*<
Thanks for the advice guys, Richard, Ian, Paul, Dave, and has given me much food for thought... :o
Bulkhead B4 will be cut away as Ian mentioned, this will be done before being fitted...and is a new replacement as the original was fuel damaged.
Pic below shows all the holes that need filling in...well its of to the party and see what the New Year brings...have a good one what ever you do....Mike
(http://i1280.photobucket.com/albums/a493/flying-flees/DSCN1174.jpg)
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The word Tenacity springs to mind Mike {-) You've nearly re-kitted the b***er. All the best for next years Phoenix.
Regards Ian.
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instead of time consuming filling of the holes, just skin either side in a light ply, or plasticard, way quicker, just glue on,!! :-))
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I had to fill some holes and just made some close fitting plugs and glued them in. Almost invisible and really quite quick if you can get the thickness right.
Dave
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The restoration continues........ <*<
Thanks Ian.....needs must with this restoration.
Paul's idea of skinning the formers, is a good idea, but Dave's method is what I am going for.... :-))
Anyway Have been to the Model Shop today and bought some thick balsa, and have decided to block the nose, this will add strength, and any collisions with the quay side, should not cause any problems to the hull.. %%
Cheers guys
Mike
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The restoration continues....... <*<
Well have decided to block the bow section, when I got this FireBoat the front end didn't quite look right, and have just realised what was wrong, when this FireBoat was first built the two front Chine formers B2 were not glued in and this has the Chine stringers in the wrong place...glad I took of the skins now... %)
(http://i1280.photobucket.com/albums/a493/flying-flees/DSCN1184_zps5a1ad29c.jpg)
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The restoration continues..... <*<
Have the balsa block looks a lot in the picture, but this for my 34" FireBoat also, my intention is to re-skin the hull up-to Former B1, then block the bow, also will remove K3 (see pic in previous post) this will make the fitting of the blocks easier.
I think this method with blocking the bow will enable me to get a more accurate profile.
Have cut the rear keel replacement but not glued it place yet, or filled in the holes in the formers that need it.
Have also cut out new former B4 today but house-hold duties got in the way..... :((
(http://i1280.photobucket.com/albums/a493/flying-flees/DSCN1185_zpsdeb8405e.jpg)
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The restoration did not continue today..... ok2 house hold duties took over.. ;) ;)
Scarlett Skye...born 21st October 2012
(http://i1280.photobucket.com/albums/a493/flying-flees/DSCN1167_zpse65b6d62.jpg)
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No house-hold duties today... %% ...so the restoration can continue.... <*<
Have cut and fitted (but not glued) the new rear end of the keel, and cut out a new B4 bulkhead, this will be cut out as mentioned by Mr Circlip... :-))
Well thats as far as I'm going at the moment...just waiting for the batteries to charge and down to the lake for a sail...first time this year.. %%
(http://i1280.photobucket.com/albums/a493/flying-flees/DSCN1186_zps81269272.jpg)
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loving the project, cant wait to see the end result :}
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Thanks Hodgy1990, for the comments...lets hope it turns out right.. O0 O0
Mike
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The restoration continues..... <*<
However......
(http://sphotos-h.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/s480x480/399993_386196761472133_1382916479_n.jpg)[/size][/font]
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No need to wait any longer.....the restoration continues..... <*< <*<
Things were going ok with this project until I started to remove the paint, then things have gone downhill ever since. Took the remaining skins of and found this, so, I'm glad in some ways but its making this into a big restoration..... >>:-(
This was always a long term project...!! still its going to worth it in the end.. ok2
(http://i1280.photobucket.com/albums/a493/flying-flees/DSCN1188_zpsb51232d4.jpg)
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The restoration continues....... <*<
Have spent the last couple of days removing the keel as around the engine area fuel had take hold of the keel also, so I decided to remove the whole of the keel and replace it with a new full length keel. As I'm having a twin motor set-up no need for a kit style keel. I know this seems as a lot of hard work but I want to have nearly zero maintaince when its finished, so its time well spent..."I hope"
Got a nice "flat" sheet of 1/4 ply from the model shop yesterday, so hope to get the new keel cut and fitted over the weekend...house hold duties permitting... {:-{ ....pictures to follow.
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Yep, it's getting closer and closer to a new "Kit" Mike :-)) :D
Regards Ian
PS. Can you save and reuse the Brass nails?
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Hi Ian,
your quite right it feels like I'm getting close to a "new Kit".... ok2
have save a few of the nails in a plastic container...then knock it of the bench...... <:( <:(
Fun and games.... <*<
Mike
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The restoration did not continue today..... <*< ......due to the snow {:-{ :((
(http://i1280.photobucket.com/albums/a493/flying-flees/DSCN1212_zps5db0ac7a.jpg)
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How did you get that nice prety white effect to last,
wedon't seem to be able to get it over here O0 O0 %) %)
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Well its been a while since the restoration has been worked on, but finally got in the workshop today.. :D
As mentioned before the original keel was damaged with glow fuel and it was to be replaced, and as I was going down the twin motor set-up as per the full size boat. So there was no need for a 2 piece keel as per the original kit, so have replaced it with a new 1 piece keel.
(http://i1280.photobucket.com/albums/a493/flying-flees/DSCN1268_zpsaa6ad316.jpg)
The restoration continues.......... <*<
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The restoration continues..... <*<
After much sweating with the bandsaw that decided to play up...mind you its 40 years old at least, but finally after showing it a big hammer.. >>:-( its worked a treat, and a nice 1 piece keel was the result, and after a bit of sanding here and there..I had the perfect fit...thats never happened before...!!
Have now glued it in place, leaving it to set over night...
(http://i1280.photobucket.com/albums/a493/flying-flees/DSCN1270_zpsb9e729d9.jpg)
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well done Mike not giving up on this old girl :-)) You have motivated me to get myself out into the garage/shed/workshop even though its still flippin freezing!
I must get on with my Fireboat at this rate you will catch me up and I started a year ago! :embarrassed:
Paul
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Hi Paul
Glad its motivated you into working on yours.....I think it will be another 6 months before this project is looking anywhere close to yours.
Mike
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The restoration continues......... <*<
Duck weather today so, no sailing, and a chance to work on the FireBoat, have glued in the one-piece keel. Attention is turn to the add-on strips which are glued to the keel to help support the skins. The original ones were made of 1/4" ply and must have been a night mare to get the chamfer right for attaching the skin (original one shown in the picture)
After a visit to the local DIY store I found some 25mm x 10mm Obechi strip wood, and I am using this and will give more area for the skins to be glued on.
(http://i1280.photobucket.com/albums/a493/flying-flees/DSCN1274_zpsd5afc361.jpg)
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The restoration continues........ <*<
Have now started to glue in the support strips, The missing former will be glued in position before the rest of the keel/skin supports are glued in.
(http://i1280.photobucket.com/albums/a493/flying-flees/DSCN1272_zpse63634ab.jpg)
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Having Fun !!
Looks like you might get there,,
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Hope so, was hoping to have it on show at Ellesmere Port, but its looking unlikely..... :((
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The restoration continues......... <*<
Well have got to this stage in the restoration, the new bulkhead has been glued in and the skin supports have been glued in also, so its looking good after the various set backs.
Onward and upward.. ;D
(http://i1280.photobucket.com/albums/a493/flying-flees/DSCN1312_zpsf07a489b.jpg)
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The restoration continues........ <*<
All the keel support strips have been glued and sanded in place, and very close to getting to re-skinning the hull. Most of the holes in the formers have been filled with wood filler, and sanded.
Well took this picture for posterity shows the original "AeroKits" former stamp mark.... :-))
(http://i1280.photobucket.com/albums/a493/flying-flees/DSCN1356_zps0ba7000b.jpg)
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The restoration continues........ <*<
Its been a while since any work has been done on the FireBoat, but have started to put the new chine stringers to the bulkheads, the keel/skin supports have been shaped.
I am glueing the stringers in stages starting at the transom, and have had to pack one bulkhead where the stringer sits.
(http://i1280.photobucket.com/albums/a493/flying-flees/DSCN1399_zpsa8e38ee6.jpg)
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The restoration continues....... <*<
This picture shows the packing piece which should have the stringer in the right place...!!
(http://i1280.photobucket.com/albums/a493/flying-flees/DSCN1402_zps45955766.jpg)
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Hi Ken
Could you change them
regards
Mike
Modified layout OK. :-))
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The restoration continues..... <*<
Momentous day-to-day, have glued the first skin in place. The process started with making a cardboard pattern, then soaked the front end of the skin in hot water for a few hours, this was then clamped to the hull and left to dry over-night, (the picture shows this part of the process)
(http://i1280.photobucket.com/albums/a493/flying-flees/DSCN1413_zps87fe7c3f.jpg)
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The Restoration Continues....... <*<
Well finally got to glueing on the second bottom skin this morning, had cut it out and soaked it a few days ago and clamped in place to dry.
I must admit Plywood these days plywood is not good as it used to be, it maybe me but it always difficult to get a piece thats flat, and the Model Shop I get my supplies from even stores it flat, but it still goes like a dogs hind leg in no time after its bought.
Quite pleased with the way the bottom skins have gone on, partly due to the fact I'm going to use balsa block on the bow section instead of as per the original were the skins were the full length of the hull.
(http://i1280.photobucket.com/albums/a493/flying-flees/DSCN1459_zpse08e7bae.jpg)
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does look quite a clippy job big bulldogs ,quite rare
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Hmmm...rare Bulldog clips.....must get them on FleaBay...Dave %% %%
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should be using balsa on planes not boats hahahaha
james
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Balsa floats....
I hope
Mike :}
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Balsa floats....
I hope
Mike :}
Wasn't there a log float "La Balsa" that travelled the worlds currents.
Recall something about it being displayed in Oz and was of Balsa? logs
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From wikipedia:-
La Balsa was the name of a 1970 expedition led by Spaniard (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spaniard) Vital Alsar (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vital_Alsar) to sail a Balsa raft (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raft) from South America (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_America) to Australia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australia) across the Pacific Ocean (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacific_Ocean).
The 8,600 mile voyage was, at the time, the longest in known history, only eclipsed by the 1973 Las Balsas (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Las_Balsas) expedition, again led by Alsar.
The expedition lasted 160 days, starting in Ecuador (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecuador) on May 29, 1970, and ended at Mooloolaba (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mooloolaba) on November 5, 1970.
Not sure as to what it has to do with fireboats! %%
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What does Balsa have to do with "FireBoats".....well in this case the bow of mine will be filled with Balsa block.
The originally the skins went the full length of the hull, but because of the complex shape of the front end.
So to make life easier I'm blocking out the bow section after the skins are attached.
As for the balsa Raft....I do remember it, an there was a few models made of it around the time and I think "Model Boats" magazine had a feature on it.
The Restoration Continues.......... <*<
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The "Kon Tiki" expedition. - Thor Hiyardaal?
Regards Ian
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The Restoration Continues.......... <*<
Let's have some proof Mike .... Maybe a nice photo or some fresh wood shavings perhaps. ;D
It's been a very long day and I need some nice boat pix to cheer me up.
Dave
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Hi Dave,
Heres the proof..... %% %%
Sorry theres no shavings......Mike
(http://i1280.photobucket.com/albums/a493/flying-flees/DSCN1185_zpsdeb8405e.jpg)
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The restoration continues....... <*<
Starting to get serious....have bought the power train this week......all what you see is x2 ESC is a SeaKing 60amp watercooled and has forward/reverse.....Brushless motors are 800 watts (each)....the motor mounts are fully adjustable and have cooling......coupling and shaft are 5mm....your probably wondering what the water pump is doing in the picture. Well after seeing Paul's fun with water cooling, on his 46" FireBoat, I'm using a water pump to do the water-cooling, just hope it works.... <:(
(http://i1280.photobucket.com/albums/a493/flying-flees/DSCN1479_zps707d5918.jpg)
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The Restoration Continues........slowly.... <*<
Have been marking out were to position things, as regards the prop shafts and motors, but first I'm going to get the rudders in position and go from there. I'm using bought ones, these are Caldercraft ones and are the large size, will just be using rudder and post, and making my own mountings. The rudder posts will be quite short, as on the FireBoat the rear deck is quite deep.
I am lead to believe that these boats flood at the rear end, so I intending to make the rear compartment fully waterproof, and only the rudder posts and linkerages, to get wet, with the servo in the engine compartment, which hopefully remains dry.
(http://i1280.photobucket.com/albums/a493/flying-flees/DSCN1474_zps51d9dce3.jpg)
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are you using an m5 threaded propshaft ?
if you are model marine supplies of devon sells the mocom and octra range plus many more , thats where i buy my multi alloy props from , a mocom 2027 for $8.15
james
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Hi James to
Thanks for that, not decided on the props or the size as yet, going down the cheap plastic prop route, and try different type and size, to get the right set-up, then select the right metal prop...hopefully.. {:-{
Mike
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best way Mike, try and use what you already have on other boats, so you can save money by interchanging the props when testing. My 3 footer is m4,
Paul
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Hi Paul,
Sure is the way to go..... :-))
All the best
Mike
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The Restoration Continues........ <*<
Have been busy with the "FireBoat" this weekend, managed to side-step the house-hold duties, surprising what you can get done.... ;D
First job was to take the dust of the lathe, and make the rudder supports these are from brass, have a groove for an 'o' ring. They are not threaded but will be glued, and a collet will be attached to the support to stop it falling out. I am using bought "extra large rudders", which will probably need trimming after the first water trials.
(http://i1280.photobucket.com/albums/a493/flying-flees/DSCN1507_zps173136f2.jpg)
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The Restoration Continues........ <*< <*<
Rudder positions have been drilled, and ply supports plates have been glue inside the hull, the power train is line-up ready for the prop shafts holes to be mark out......also have painted (white primer) the wheel-house, I am going to have an instrument panel.
(http://i1280.photobucket.com/albums/a493/flying-flees/DSCN1497_zpse02359ec.jpg) (http://s1280.photobucket.com/user/flying-flees/media/DSCN1497_zpse02359ec.jpg.html)
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good work, I'm going to have to pad out my build log to make it look like something is actually happening!
Bet you cant wait to get it wet! :-))
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Look forward to getting it wet....but a long way off yet.... <*<
Will give you a call when it happens Paul, so you can be there... :-)
Mike
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The Restoration Continues....... <*<
Have done a fair bit over the weekend, have glued 1/4" ply plates in the engine compartment, slotted the middle bulkhead, slotted the hull for the prop shafts. The picture shows the trial fitting of prop shaft and motor/mounting. As mentioned before I'm not having water scoops, and using a water pump to get the water around the motor mount and the ESC.
(http://i1280.photobucket.com/albums/a493/flying-flees/DSCN1541_zps71c1be3a.jpg) (http://s1280.photobucket.com/user/flying-flees/media/DSCN1541_zps71c1be3a.jpg.html)
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Fitting "P" brackets?
Regards Ian.
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The Restoration Continues......... <*<
An aerial shot of the hull....next jobs to do before the side skins are glued in place, is to get the rudders set in place, solder lubricating tubes to the propshafts, and once the shafts have been glued in place sort out the drive end.
(http://i1280.photobucket.com/albums/a493/flying-flees/34f323db-8792-4097-92e6-92efa7fe3d8c_zps60474631.jpg) (http://s1280.photobucket.com/user/flying-flees/media/34f323db-8792-4097-92e6-92efa7fe3d8c_zps60474631.jpg.html)
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Hi Ian,
Yes will be fitting them, have only done a trail setup to see what it looks like, have got the material for the "P" brackets.
Cheers
Mike
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Mike.......in real life there is a sequence of prop shaft alignment procedures that we can consider & use in model work :} ...may sound a little long winded but it will work O0
1. You appear to have adequate alignment clearances where the prop tubes intersect with the hull base plate
2. There does not appear to be adequate clearance where the prop shaft intersects the bulkhead aft of the motor........this clearance should be increased
3. After the motor is fixed, the next is the P bracket.....lock this in place, perform the next step 4. & if OK, bond the P bracket mountings with your chosen epoxy
4. Turn the motor over by hand.....it should be free to rotate....if these new style motors exhibit too much magnetic gauss/resistance ...run the motor or minimum voltage & check the current draw
5. Next is the bonding of the prop tubes where they intersect with the hull base plate
6. You could consider some resilient tube washers where the prop tubes intersects the bulkhead aft of the motor
7. With any epoxy mounting, thermal stresses can occur between components & minute distortions occur
8. Turn the motor over again as @ point 4. ... you may meed to release the motor mounting & turn the prop shafts by hand without the motor to confirm the shaft freeness
In real life these days, many large diesel engines are then shimmed & epoxy grouted to attain optimal shaft alignment :-)) ...................good luck.......Derek
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One method I used was to run a motor on the lowest voltage ,any sort of error ,and the motor would snag ,it worked for me .
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Thanks Dave and Derek..... :-))
The advice has been very useful, the only difference is I will be using a solid homemade coupling to line up the motor and propshaft. I have used this method on the boats I have built and not had any problems as yet... {:-{
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plus Mike ive gone and got me old theodolite out for the extension we are having ..could have been handy for u
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Dave....would have been useful 20 years ago, but have gone onto LAZERS......... %%
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Hi Mike, I wish I could convince you to fit water cooling pickups, this is the ideal stage to do this, and if you dont use them you dont have to, why drag a pump around in the boat, which will drain your power source, and be noisy, when you can use the water from the lake %%
It just gives you the option if needed, you hav ethe tooling available to make a nice job of it
Paul
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I'm convinced...... ok2
Hi Paul,
It was going to be water pick-ups, but when I read about the problems you had, that was the reasoning behind the pump for cooling water. Having the pick-ups will give me 2 options, and I can always turn to the water pump. Byetheway the pump I was considering was a 6volt jobbie from China...use in subs...and only £7.
The Restoration Continues......... <*<
All the best
Mike
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great news, Peter made me some up, very slim, the shop bought ones are too thick and cause drag. He kept using those flush ones that go in the hull, I didnt like them. THe cooling worked a treat, it was the visual effect I failed with! I wanted a strong exit of the water to look like exhaust fumes under the water level, but by the time the water had travelled up the 4 foot hull, through the speed controllers, through the mounts, and back down the hull the water pressure had been lost :(( , so it ias a pathetic dribble, but at least it works to cool things!
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great news, Peter made me some up, very slim, the shop bought ones are too thick and cause drag. He kept using those flush ones that go in the hull, I didn't like them. The cooling worked a treat, it was the visual effect I failed with! I wanted a strong exit of the water to look like exhaust fumes under the water level, but by the time the water had travelled up the 4 foot hull, through the speed controllers, through the mounts, and back down the hull the water pressure had been lost :(( , so it ias a pathetic dribble, but at least it works to cool things!
Is there a balance at what pressure the water wil not aid cooling, if it is flowing too quickly, such as at high pressure would cooling be reduced.
As for the exhaust, could you tap a branch in the line, such as a 'Y' connector to go straight to exhaust for the visual effect you seek.
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That's a great idea! I the y piece. The cooling is very effective but your idea is really good thank
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Hi Paul
Having convinced me to go down the "Scoop Route".....I'm going down the flush"scoop" route, I have seen the ones done by the place in Warrington they sell double, or single "scoops". I'm going to get single ones and have 2 separate cooling systems, but havn't decided were the outlets are going to be.
The restoration will continue soon......... <*<
Mike
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the place in Warrington
Hi Mike ...what place?
Dave
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Hi Dave
Its Prestwich Model Boats, in Golbourne, near Warrington just of the East Lancs Road, have not been there, but the water cooled motor mounts came from there, does mostly I.C. stuff. Has a good web site.
Mike
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Golborne - yes it looks like a derelict shed from the outside. It was closed the one time I was passing by.
Dave
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The Restoration Continues........... <*<
Not much has happened with the restoration, apart from what you see in the picture.....the rudder supports have been glued in place, I made collars to help retain the supports, these will be glued, and grub screwed in place. I have found 2 collets these will have brass arms silver soldered in place at a later date.....
(http://i1280.photobucket.com/albums/a493/flying-flees/DSCN1621_zpsacba6f6a.jpg) (http://s1280.photobucket.com/user/flying-flees/media/DSCN1621_zpsacba6f6a.jpg.html)
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The restoration continues........ <*<
Finally managed to do a bit on the FireBoat today, after much debate, I have bought and fitted water scoops. These came from PMB in Warrington, and are the flush type. Club member advised using 4mm tubing to feed the motor and ESC....so I've got the twin scoop type, seperate feeds for motor and ESC.
Also have done the rudder linkage.......so back to the workshop, been fed and watered....T.R.C.... <*<
(http://i1280.photobucket.com/albums/a493/flying-flees/DSCN1726_zpscba1c396.jpg) (http://s1280.photobucket.com/user/flying-flees/media/DSCN1726_zpscba1c396.jpg.html)
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Have you glued the pickups in with wood glue?
I would have used epoxy
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No have not use wood glue......its 1 hour epoxy, mixed with "micro ballons" this makes it look like wood glue.... %% %%
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Ah makes sense then
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The Restoration Continues...... <*<
Had a busy day, getting the "Blood Pressure" down, after a visit to the Doc's, this included a 45 mins bike ride, of to B & Q to buy 9 paving stones, visit to Liverpool's old airport to arrange a boat display, watch the Formula F1 qualifiying, power nap, then into the workshop, and have made (nearly) cooling pipes, in brass tube...the picture shows the method, there is 2 both side, one for the motor, one for the ESC.
(http://i1280.photobucket.com/albums/a493/flying-flees/DSCN1729_zpsb0320516.jpg) (http://s1280.photobucket.com/user/flying-flees/media/DSCN1729_zpsb0320516.jpg.html)
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T.R.C......... <*<
This picture shows the cooling pipe in position...
(http://i1280.photobucket.com/albums/a493/flying-flees/DSCN1730_zps588a99ac.jpg) (http://s1280.photobucket.com/user/flying-flees/media/DSCN1730_zps588a99ac.jpg.html)
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FTP,
Would the cooling system work equally as well, if the 'silicone' tube was plumbed all the way to the motors and ESC's?
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you might find with a long run the water flow is not great, I ended up adding a pump to mine. Tho I did later discover the reason why.... I had the outlet too high :embarrassed:
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I did mine the same way, cosmetic reasons really, I think it looks much neater, and thought the tubing would aid with cooling
coming along Mike, I have started putting running gear back, scarey! ;) it might get wet very soon!
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Well thanks for the advice Guys.....have considered many options... {:-{
Going with the 'silicone tubing' all the way through, was thought that it may look untidy. I don't think the distance the water has to travel will cause any trouble with the cooling...but will only find out when the boats water tested... :((
Originally I was going to use a pump for cooling, and will make a provision for one, as I also will have the hydrants working, will add an extra connection in the piping just in case.
Paul you are getting close, starting with the "scary" bit....really looking forward to seeing yours on the water.. ok2 ok2 ok2
All the best
Mike
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Safest system RAAARTY is to use hard (metal- say brass or alloy) tubes for the main runs with short lengths of flexible (silicone) tube to the ends as above. Fix main tubes rigidly through bulkheads etc.
Long lengths of flexy are easy to pierce. :-))
Regards Ian.
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Safest system RAAARTY is to use hard (metal- say brass or alloy) tubes for the main runs with short lengths of flexible (silicone) tube to the ends as above. Fix main tubes rigidly through bulkheads etc.
Long lengths of flexy are easy to pierce. :-))
Regards Ian.
Thank you, hard tubes, she is :-)) :-))
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Hi Mike,
any progress? As you have probably seen, I am "wet" now with my boat. I really fancy joining up with Newsham, my spiritual home so to speak!, we could have a great natter and compare notes.
I have a friends 3 footer he bought second hand with a very strange handling problem that I promised to sort out, thats another story!
hope to read of progress soon,
Paul
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The Restoration continues......... <*<
Well its been a while since my last blog on this "Mammoth" rebuild of the FireBoat....not much had happened...however a burst of energy last week got me into the workshop, and have manufactured and fitted a set of "P" frames, have tried to get them as scale looking as possible, going by the drawings I have. Next job is to get the motors fitted.... <*<
(http://i1280.photobucket.com/albums/a493/flying-flees/DSCN2050_zps90a43014.jpg) (http://s1280.photobucket.com/user/flying-flees/media/DSCN2050_zps90a43014.jpg.html)
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The restoration continues...... <*<
Starting to get to the interesting bit....mounting the drive train...I'm using twin brushless these are similar to RED181's only I'm using couplings...did consider the way Paul has done his but don't have the time..may go down this route at a later date. As you can see from the picture, the base plate is 6mm ply, brass angle for the mounting the motors to the ply base. I'm using "captive nuts" to hold the rails to the ply base...these are from my T/R days and were best way of mounting an I.C. engine.
Well onto fitting in the hull next...... <*<
(http://i1280.photobucket.com/albums/a493/flying-flees/DSCN2060_zps699d9651.jpg) (http://s1280.photobucket.com/user/flying-flees/media/DSCN2060_zps699d9651.jpg.html)
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The Restoration continues....... <*<
Done the first of the motor mounts, and have started the lining up process....I am using an old engineering trick of plasticine to get the size and thickness of the blocks.
(http://i1280.photobucket.com/albums/a493/flying-flees/DSCN2063_zps289ff395.jpg) (http://s1280.photobucket.com/user/flying-flees/media/DSCN2063_zps289ff395.jpg.html)
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The restoration continues...... <*<
Been busy again and finally got both motors installed....the process was as follows, made the brass mounting rails, bolted these to the 6mm ply base. Next motor and prop shaft were lined up using a homemade solid coupling to line up motor and propshafts.
Plasticine was used to get the thickness of the packing strips. This picture was taken before both motors are glue in place.
(http://i1280.photobucket.com/albums/a493/flying-flees/DSCN2079_zpsf69ab874.jpg) (http://s1280.photobucket.com/user/flying-flees/media/DSCN2079_zpsf69ab874.jpg.html)
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Now that,s a neat bit of work ,plus the very practical engineering ,good man on tools as they say ,nice job there Mikey.
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Cheers........Davey :-)) :-))
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Hi Mike
Just popped in for a quick look and I like what I see O0
I''ll come down to Newsham Park lake when you and Paul get them speeding away together >>>>>>>> :o
Regards Dave
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Cheers Dave.....yes there will be a meeting of the "FireBoats" hopefully early summer going by the progress so far.... <*<
All the best
Mike
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keep it coming Mike, once you get into the rythmn its easier to keepgoing! Got to beat the winter!
Not heard anything about Cub 500 at Newsham,? We raced todat at Taylor Park, great fun! :}
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Cheers Paul...... ok2
Thanks for the encouragement not done much more due to Family things keep slower me down...regarding "Club 500" we are just sorting out the new "Buoys" out so I would think early next year we should be up and running.
Chat soon
Mike
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The Restoration Continues......... <*<
Have got to the point were the side skins go on having got all the running gear sorted....I have gone for having the servo in the "engine room" this type of boat does suffers from flooding when going astern in the rear compartment.
(http://i1280.photobucket.com/albums/a493/flying-flees/DSCN2101_zps243f5d49.jpg) (http://s1280.photobucket.com/user/flying-flees/media/DSCN2101_zps243f5d49.jpg.html)
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this type of boat does suffers from flooding when going astern in the rear compartment.
+ 1 on that Mike,
nice neat work :-))
Paul
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Thanks for that Paul..... :-))
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The Restoration Continues......... <*<
Has been a while but today finally got the the first of the side skins on, hopefully will get the second skin on later this week.
(http://i1280.photobucket.com/albums/a493/flying-flees/DSCN2127_zps1e8cb067.jpg) (http://s1280.photobucket.com/user/flying-flees/media/DSCN2127_zps1e8cb067.jpg.html)
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The restoration continues.....but very slowly..... <*<
Well its been nearly 2 months since my last post, and progress has been quite slow, but over the past couple of weeks have managed to get the remaining skin on and block the bow with 1" thick Balsa sheet. As mentioned earlier on in this project on the original kit the skins went the full length of the hull, but due to the complex shape it was very difficult to get it right, so I went for an easier option. This I think has worked out fine and getting very close to having this part of the hull finished.
Mike
(http://i1280.photobucket.com/albums/a493/flying-flees/DSCN2226_zpsbbb10efe.jpg) (http://s1280.photobucket.com/user/flying-flees/media/DSCN2226_zpsbbb10efe.jpg.html)
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:-)) keep up the good work your doing ,well a credit to your skills....
The restoration continues.....but very slowly..... <*<
Well its been nearly 2 months since my last post, and progress has been quite slow, but over the past couple of weeks have managed to get the remaining skin on and block the bow with 1" thick Balsa sheet. As mentioned earlier on in this project on the original kit the skins went the full length of the hull, but due to the complex shape it was very difficult to get it right, so I went for an easier option. This I think has worked out fine and getting very close to having this part of the hull finished.
Mike
(http://i1280.photobucket.com/albums/a493/flying-flees/DSCN2226_zpsbbb10efe.jpg) (http://s1280.photobucket.com/user/flying-flees/media/DSCN2226_zpsbbb10efe.jpg.html)
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THANKS GEORGO IF YOU ARE AT THE ELLESMERE PORT SHOW "FIREBOAT" WILL BE ON SHOW IN ITS CURRENT STATE.. ok2 ok2
Please do not use all Capitals , as it's regarded as Shouting
Ken