Model Boat Mayhem
Mess Deck: General Section => Full Scale Ships => Topic started by: FLAT-TOP-FLYER on January 05, 2013, 10:38:53 pm
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THERE HAS STARTED A GOVERMENT PETITION TO GET THE QE2 BACK TO THE UK....SIGN IT TO STOP GOING TO CHINA FOR SCRAP...OVER 600 HAVE SIGN TO DATE BUT IT NEEDS TO GET TO 100,000...SO PASS THE WORD.... ok2
MIKE
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have you got a link to the petition?
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Heres the link to the petition.
Please pass this link on to people that would be interested
http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/43821[/size][/font]
Mike
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I've signed it! O0
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I can't really see how this project would be financially viable. There is little published information but one report suggests that the UK consortium would pay Dubai the same as the Chinese are offering for the ship £20m, but that Dubai would then be expected to come in as a partner to fund the rest of the setup costs. I think Dubai just want to be rid of her now.
QE2 was retired because she was essentially worn out and her cabins and facilities no longer matched contemporary cruise ships so quite how you conjure up a 5 star hotel ambience from such a starting point must be problematical.
A ship, even if in a static role, is still a machine rather than a building and ongoing maintenance costs will be off the scale compared with a hotel building, even more so when you factor in the constant battle against corrosion in our damp climate.
Large RN ships have come through the Thames Barrier but have always been moored in mid river due to their draught. QE2 needs to have a shore connection which would presumably mean excavating and maintaining a berth for her which would constantly silt up.
QE2 has only limited historical value as most of her original interiors are long gone, the power plant is not original while her external appearance has also been extensively altered over the years - so just what are you preserving? She also has no connections with London as would have been the case at Southampton.
She might get by on novelty value as a hotel for a while but rates would need to be high to cover operating costs and better accommodation at lower prices would be readily available onshore.
And in the likely scenario of the project going bust, the river authorities would be faced with the problem of disposing of 70,000 tons or so of rotting steel and aluminium which by then may effectively sitting on the bottom in a mud berth.
This may be a negative view but I think it is a realistic one.
Stephen Payne, who designed the QM2, apparently believes that the Chinese would use QE2 for accommodation purposes at Singapore.
Colin
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Have to whole heartedly agree with Colin. I would also add that there have been many petitions over the last few years to save ships that have a special meaning to different people for different reasons. I have signed a number of these for such as HMS Plymouth, Intrepid, Invincible, Ark etc but even when signing I knew it was a futile gesture which would come to nothing. As will this petition, as much as I would hope that Im wrong this time I doubt I will be.
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What Colin says is quite right....my cousin was on the QE2 from the day she first sailed, and was on her when she went to the Falklands, and he has commented on the fact that the owners thought it was not worth the effort to keep her going, hence why she was sold to Dubai.
Also London is the wrong place for this ship to be based......Southampton, Liverpool, and were she was built have more connections. But if she was based at the likes of Southampton, Liverpool, there would be more of a chance her being put good use.
Should you sign the petition...well thats always going to be a tricky one....the choice is yours.
Would it be a viable, thats always going to be the "get out clause" the QE2 never lost money in its time at sea, was always fully booked, some passengers paying upto £35,000.
There is and ex Cunard ship across the pond, and some people thought that was going to be a disaster, and look what happened....you never know it could happen to the QE2....
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...Hi Guys...
Why not return her to her birth place.... The River Clyde...
I cant understand taking her to London...There,s no links at all...
...Best Regards...Norry...
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I cant understand taking her to London...There,s no links at all...
Lots of tourists though....
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Scotland gets visited by tourists as well...
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perhaps the Yanks would like her at Long Beach.
I signed, but purely to erk some beurocrat in London {-) {-) {-) {-)
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I expect that a lot of people will sign the petition, after all - why not, it costs them nothing.
However, if the question was 'Would you be willing to invest £500 of your own money in this project?' then I think you would see a more realistic picture of the true level of interest in the ship.
Colin
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683 signatures to date !!, lets face it Piers Morgan got more votes to kick him out of the US than this petition will ever get <:(
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683 signatures to date !!, lets face it Piers Morgan got more votes to kick him out of the US than this petition will ever get <:(
And I have no doubt if a petition was started in the UK to keep him in the US it would get even more!
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It will never happen
The cost to convert her would be to much. The only cabins you could use are the Queens grill. All the rest will need removing and rebuilding. Take a premier inn room. Look a how much space you get for a reasonable amount of money. Sorry but QE2 cabins wont cut it. OK when she was an Liner but as a Floating hotel No. This is just the tip of the Ice berg on what will need to be done to her.
Then location London will have the Biggest crowd but she would have to be next to Tower bridge any futher down stream she will be to far out of town to attract the big money to stay on her.
Glasgow and Southamton both have better links with her but were to put her.
Glasgow ,the river Clyde will need to be dredged and I doubt she will clear the Erskine bridge.
Southampton is an active port so any berth will be very expensive.
Colin hit the nail on the head
John
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Can't see the point of preserving something if it's not in more or less it's original state. So by the time you've gutted this boat and put a whole new set of accommodation in, you've basically got a hull. And I suppose some turbines and stuff, but how many people really appreciate that sort of thing in the paying public.
Personally I never like the look of QE2 anyway. Sorry :embarrassed:
Actually, I think these petitions only force a parliamentary debate when they get enough votes. Can't see that gaining anything useful in this case.
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I have to agree with Colin, realistically there is no chance of any restoration being financially viable. I was lucky enough to travel from Sydney to Southampton on her in 2008, on the homeward leg of her final world cruise, and was saddened when she was retired. However, nothing lasts forever and, as Colin pointed out, QE2 was surpassed by the newer ships as regards the standard of accommodation etc, a standard that is expected by today's travellers.
One thing the modern cruise ships can't match with QE2 is her speed. The captains we had on our voyage were fond of telling anyone who would listen that QE2 could go faster astern than most of the new vessels are capable of full ahead. I can tell you from personal experience that the wake left by 70,000 tons moving at 30 knots is quite impressive.
I have my memories of a famous ship, plus hundreds of photos and a couple of books to keep those memories alive. While I would be sad to see her broken up, or worse, left to rot, reason tells me that she has lived her long life, and can't go on forever.
Peter.
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What a total waste of energy it simply will NOT happen it will cost far to much
Dave
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Why ?
Where ?
How much !!!!! ?
No thanks !!
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If there was a "like" button to show you agreed with posts it would save time." Like", Stav.
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Have to agree wth Colin on this one if the ship came back to the UK it would hve to pay its way just like any other business as it
wont make enough money by foot fall alone. Having served for three years as a volunteer on HMS Plymouth in Glasgow we
had to market the ship for corporate events to get the big $$ as the running costs as quite high. Even the yanks do this
with their preserved WWII battlewagons and some of the set ups they have are fantastic. They have a berth built for the
ship and a dockside museum to boot and you have got to hand it to them they do take an interest in their ships.
Millions of dollars seem to be found to refurbish these ships and display them.
Norrie sorry to have to tell you but as much as a Clyde Built enthusiast as I am we on the other side of hadrians wall do not
have enough interest in maritime history I learned that from my time on the Plymouth. If school party came on say 30 kids
they would run through ship because they were only interested in getting on to the main deck where the guns were. They
were only contented once they had a go at elevating the oerlikon and feeding their faces at the tuck shop.. says it all
If it was football orientated different story. Would be better if the yanks took her they could afford it and they would take an
interest in it. ie http://www.ussalabama.com/ (http://www.ussalabama.com/)
Frank.
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I'm all in favour of preserving ships if the conditions are right but usually they are not. It's certainly true to say that the Americans are more enthusiastic in this respect but even their projects are frequently financially precarious. Also, I think that the 'adopted' battleship schemes depended very much on veterans who had served on them and as these people pass on it will be more difficult to keep the projects viable.
In the UK even a small operational ship like Waverley cannot support herself without regular large donations of extra funding, most recently from some generous lottery winners, and Balmoral, which was intended to generate extra funding to support Waverley, will not be running this year.
I think it is fair to say that just about all preserved ships in the UK are in a weak or marginal financial situation from HMS Victory down, and face a constant struggle for long term survival.
If QE2 came to Greenwich I doubt if there are many on this Forum who would pay the £300 or so per cabin per night to stay aboard her although we might fork out a tenner to tour the ship and even then probably just the once. As stated earlier, only the poshest cabins would be suitable for hotel purposes and there may not be enough of them to bring in the needed revenue. As a tourist attraction the ship would be competing with the likes of the Tower of London, St Paul's Cathedral, Westminster Abbey etc. etc and foreign visitors would not see her as much of a priority.
Colin
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There are lots of famous ships with great names and history behind them.
You cannot 'just preserve' them, especially, n this day and age with huge financial constraints. In any case, within a few years, those to whom the name QEII means anything will be long gone.
In MHO, lovely idea, totally impractical - there are much more money worthy causes out there if you're looking to 'loose' some cash!
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so long as I as a tax payer don't have to foot the bill, they can do what they want with her!!
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Much cheaper to ship ( ) it back as cars, cookers, TVs etc. :-))
Regards Ian.
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And again, just how often would people go to look around her? I guess this has been the downfall of many a ship. Seen that, done that sort of thing. Could be different if she was incorporated into a larger, more diverse "museum" scenario like "Warrior". BY.
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Well that petition didn't last long.....just clicked on the link I have and the page is no longer available.....has it reached 100,000 signatures ??
Strange....... 8)
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todays news on the QE2
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-21059326 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-21059326)
looks like it will be a hotel
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As mentioned in my earlier post, the current likelihood seems to be Singapore.
I suppose it will be invaded by Japanese tourists.... :}
Colin
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well I suppose that is better than her being scrapped.It doesnt really matter what they do inside the ship,so long as they keep the exterior profile the same.
Mick F
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To the vast majority, she is just another "boat" not even with the dignity of being referred to as a "ship!" :((
Saw this in an ancient mag. and it is perfectly true:
They've stripped her frills an furnishin's they've bared 'er stem to stern,
They've gutted 'er from mizzen-truck to hold,
An' she's learned 'er final lesson, what the best o' sailors learn,
That the sea is finished wiv yer when yer old!
Yes, she's finished with the sea,
An' she'll never more be free,
To wander where the waves is rollin' green,
For the knackers they 'ave got 'er
An' they'll bloomin well job- lot 'er,
An they'll never give a thought for what she's been.
They didn't 'old no service for to mark 'er dyin' day,
But 'er sisters 'ooted mournful as she passed.
An' a brace o' dirty tug boats came an 'ustled 'er away,
Wiv 'er colours 'angin' sadly at the mast.
An' they'll never give a rap
As they cut 'er into scrap,
For the glory an' the pride she used to be,
An 'er owners will forget 'er
An they'll take an' build a better,
But there'll never be a better ship for me.
Yet I 'avent't seen the last of 'er, for ships is more than steel,
An' sailor men see more than other folk,
So I know some day I'll sight 'er wiv the pilot at 'er wheel,
An 'er ghostly funnel trailin ghostly smoke.
I'll be ready for I'll know
That it's time for me to go,
An I'll smile to 'ear the shout of "come aboard!"
An' there's not a man will fail 'er
As we muster there to sail 'er
Straight to Heaven for the glory of the Lord!
Bob
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As mentioned in my earlier post, the current likelihood seems to be Singapore.
I suppose it will be invaded by Japanese tourists.... :}
Colin
No, more likely Chinese.
Would not be surprised if she doesn't end up eventually in Shanghai as a hotel tied up on the Pudong side of the Huangpu River. She sure would look nice all lit up at night from the Bund.
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No, more likely Chinese.
I think you may have missed the point! ok2
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Hey as long as they still have the X-craft in the hold, there will be nothing to worry about. That and and a few Brits on the bridge in their finest Bermuda short. ok2
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Far more important RN ships should be ahead of the queue for preservation in the UK rather than some bloated richman's 'fun boat'! :-))
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Far more important RN ships should be ahead of the queue for preservation in the UK rather than some bloated richman's 'fun boat'! (http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/Smileys/Tug/thumbup.gif)
Well I have travelled on the QM2 and it cost less than you would pay for two weeks in Benidorm. I may sometimes feel bloated but wouldn't exactly say I'm rich...
Colin
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Well I have travelled on the QM2 and it cost less than you would pay for two weeks in Benidorm. I may sometimes feel bloated but wouldn't exactly say I'm rich...
Colin
No doubt. But the real purpose of the QE2 was to pamper the well heeled. At least you can be content you subsidised them in some small way. %%
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No doubt. But the real purpose of the QE2 was to pamper the well heeled. At least you can be content you subsidised them in some small way.
Don't think so, I've never travelled on the QE2.....
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I have travelled on the QE2, and not in your wildest imagination could I be called rich. There were certainly some very wealthy people on board at the same time as us, but the majority of passengers we met were ordinary people who had saved wisely to treat themselves to a trip on an iconic ship. I will probably never do another voyage such as the one we did, it was an unforgettable experience. Yes, we were pampered by the crew, but we never felt that we were somehow subsidising the "well heeled" by being on board QE2.
Peter.
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Don't worry Peter, Justboatonic is simply parading his proletarian antecedents....
Colin
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Preferable to parading his Y fronts
Or thong :o
Dave
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Don't worry Peter, Justboatonic is simply parading his proletarian antecedents....
Colin
Should there be a band playing for that parade? The Red Army band, perhaps? {-)
Peter.
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Defo not the Peoples Army Band.
The Chinese seem to be the biggest group of extravagant conspicious consumers on the planet at the moment. As others have suggested, I would not be surprised if the QE2 ends up as an oppulent hotel for Chinese plutocrats to amuse themselves.
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Well,
Those "bloated fun boats, and their crews" were always ready to serve their country in time of war and the losses in personnel and ships during WWII were greater than any other service! :-))
Jervis Bay - Rawalpindi - Carmania - Gloucester Castle - Queen Mary - Queen Elizabeth - Empress of Britain - Olympic - Brittanic - Alcantara - Carnarvon Castle - Lancastria - Viceroy of India - Queen Elizabeth 2 (Falklands)
The list is endless!
Bob
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Re. the QE2.
She wasn’t exactly an icon, was she? OK, she was a product of her time, but certainly lacked the sheer of the old “Queen Mary” (and a few other ships of that time).
The 1960s was an era of rather brutal architecture, and the QE2, although paying lip service to “elegance” on the outside, reflected the then “modern” vogue of comparitive “starkness” inside.
Throughout her life she suffered multiple problems. The first one that I remember was when her main engines were being sent back to Germany and one of them fell off the back of the transporting truck. A good start.
Then came the myriad of hygiene problems. The catering hygiene was forever being criticised by the US authorities, and when some laws were changed she was found to be totally inadequate in the “waste disposal” department.
I’m sure that these “problems” would remain if she was to be converted to a high standard hotel somewhere in the European/N.American area. She might (just) get away with being a Chinese “Youth Hostel” or something. Forget it. Let her be gone. BY.
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I never sailed in the Queen Elizabeth 2, although I visited on a number of occasions over the years. I really don't think it would be a good idea to preserve her here either. Several years ago, there was a move to try and preserve my old ship RMS Windsor Castle, somewhere on the Mersey, but I was never very keen on the idea. They are really not the same when stuck forever in port with tourists tramping through them! There is so little interest in the Merchant Navy of the past these days, it probably wouldn't pay. To most people, she would be just "another old boat!" <:(
I don't really think they should have resurrected the Cutty Sark after the fire, but I expect this will bring screams of anguish from some!
Also think it is a very bad idea to build a replica Titanic, but we are not hearing much of that at the moment.
I would like to have a look at the Glenlee on the Clyde, but she was just one of the rank and file and very small, so not as expensive to restore!
Bob