Model Boat Mayhem - Forum

Mess Deck: General Section => Tugs and Towing => Topic started by: Chris G on January 06, 2013, 02:12:54 PM

Title: Thames lighters
Post by: Chris G on January 06, 2013, 02:12:54 PM
I am thinking of building a Thames lighter to be towed by my Thames tug 1/32 scale or near it.

I have looked at the Mountfleet kit which looks good, are there any others I should consider? there do not seem to be many available.

Would appreciate any recommendations.

Many thank Chris G   
Title: Re: Thames lighters
Post by: Norseman on January 06, 2013, 03:57:18 PM
Maybe not exactly what you are asking about but I think this was the Thames build I enjoyed seeing most last year. A Tosher and not expensive either ... And a bit different http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=37301.0

Dave
Title: Re: Thames lighters
Post by: Chris G on January 06, 2013, 04:37:18 PM
Thank you Dave although the model you forwarded to me is not unlike the tug I intend to tow the lighter behind.
I have a particular interest in these craft as one of my relatives in days long gone by was a Thames Lighterman and I have copies of his apprenticeship papers.
I would just like to build something appropriate to go with the tug.


Thanks Chris
Title: Re: Thames lighters
Post by: dodes on January 07, 2013, 06:01:00 PM
Why not make one they are fairly basic box hulls.
Title: Re: Thames lighters
Post by: TailUK on January 07, 2013, 06:04:38 PM
Wasn't there a free plan for a lighter in October's Marine Modelling?
Title: Thames lighters
Post by: Chris G on January 07, 2013, 06:46:40 PM
Thank you for the ideas.
I was considering a scratch build, always been frightened of the concept but realise when building a kit a lot of the work that goes into it is the equivalent of scratch build. There are always bits we don't like and modify.
I want to pull this behind an early Caldercraft 'Riverman' although both will realistically spend most of their time in the work room being admired, by me.
The 'Mountfleet' kit seemed good value at around Ł150, especially when you consider how much we spend on bits and pieces, I saw scale figures today priced at Ł12.
 Again many thanks I will Google Marine Modelling.
Title: Re: Thames lighters
Post by: Howard on January 07, 2013, 07:23:02 PM
Have You looked at mobile marine models there have a few good 1:32 scale hulls, kits ring Brian he,s a very friendly chap or if you go up and see them there just north of Lincoln you,ll be made most welcome,
    Regards Howard.
Title: Thames lighters
Post by: Chris G on January 07, 2013, 10:52:02 PM
Hello Howard and thanks.


I have bought stuff from MMM and am impressed with their bits especially some of the winches which are beautiful but was hoping for a hull with more detail, I think theirs tend to be slab sided.
I hope to pull this behind an old Caldercraft 'Riverman' that is very pretty so want the tug to be in keeping.   


I will continue to investigate even though retired have quite a lot on the go so no hurry.


Thanks and take care Chris G 
Title: Re: Thames lighters
Post by: dodes on January 09, 2013, 09:01:06 PM
A thames lighter is really simple to make, it is all slab sided, no shaped bows or stern runs to make. The deck fittings are simple, 5 x bollards one on each corner, a shallow combing hatch each end, short funnel aft a bollard right aft, a large ring with a length of 7" grass rope spliced to it about 25ft in length right forward and a small simple barrel windlass between two bits forward.
Title: Re: Thames lighters
Post by: thamestug on January 11, 2013, 04:29:38 PM
Just been looking at the pics of the mountfleet model lighter but i dont think that is the true configuration of a swim-headed thames lighter it is more like a liverpool or humber craft i think
Title: Thames lighters
Post by: Chris G on January 12, 2013, 10:27:13 AM
I thank you both for your suggestions, decision time  {:-{


Although the Mountfleet lighter does not look like the Thames lighter which were just basic floating tanks and there were many thousands of them, I think it is an attractive model. If Riverman and the lighter are ever seen together I will have a lot of explaining to do.


I thank you both for your interest, Take care Chris G   
Title: Re: Thames lighters
Post by: lighterman on January 13, 2013, 04:12:52 PM
Gentlemen

To say a Thames lighter is just a box makes me want to scream! >>:-(
Joking aside the new ones that I work on are rather boxy but the more traditional ones do have some very refined shapes. If you could bare the pain of reading a diatribe of details I will happily write up a treatise on it.
However I have made a mould with plate and rivet detail for a shapely 180tonner and can easily do a GRP hull if you were interested?
The LOA is about 34 in X 7 in beam and I built it to 1/32nd scale. I have made a few hulls from it and lads a work that have had model tugs off me I have given them so they may want to finish and fit them out.
i also have some drawings that i got out of the skip in the barge yard a while back after the truly destructive action that companies have of "its old get rid of it" view these days.
so if there is any interest i am happy to put some words and music together on the subject.



Title: Re: Thames lighters
Post by: Howard on January 13, 2013, 04:27:22 PM
Hi I think that would be very good of you and a lot members on here would be interested to see your work I know i would.
          Regards Howard.
Title: Thames lighters
Post by: Chris G on January 13, 2013, 04:41:40 PM
I second the last entry, I would love to see this work and I apologise for my description of the Thames Lighters.


Chris G
Title: Re: Thames lighters
Post by: Norseman on January 13, 2013, 04:51:20 PM
I positively look forward to your diatribe but would appreciate some pictures too...
and you want do do another diatribe on Toshers -  :}  :-))

Dave
Title: Re: Thames lighters
Post by: lighterman on January 13, 2013, 05:43:18 PM
No need for any apologies I have cursed them many times and referred to them worse than just a tank… But its sounded much the same!
I will put some words and music together and do a posting. Hope no one will grass me up if I illustrate the waffle with culled pictures from the net?
 the first picture is of a barge/lighter that we refer to as a "punt" these were small barges built to be rowed or driven by a lone lighterman under oars. these ranged in carrying capacity from 50- 100 tons and union agreements depending on the size gave the manning level.
there is in our trade a slang for bits as in most trades and i will try and explain these as i use them, or if there is a strange word ie Huff and i dont explain it then please ask.
Huff= opposite to Huddis... there thats simple huh?
Title: Re: Thames lighters
Post by: dodes on January 15, 2013, 06:35:38 PM
Hello Lighterman, yep that is just like the lighters I remember. Built like the proferable brick ---- houses. Watch one get blown across the Tilbury Docks new extension, it hit a ships mooring bollard on the jetty, the lighter just moved down the wall with out a scratch, the bollard sheered off level with the ground and rolled about 50ft into the container park all 1 ton of it. Nice model  lighter with nice deck detail.
Title: Re: Thames lighters
Post by: dodes on January 15, 2013, 06:40:46 PM
Hi Lighterman, just to say I refered to box for a lighter, as I was a saliorman for a short while and well our things did have a bit of shape to them.
Title: Re: Thames lighters
Post by: lighterman on January 15, 2013, 09:50:25 PM
You are quite right dodes compared with sailing barges they where very boxy, there were a few Long-un's (craft built to go up the canal a lee) that were the shape close to sailing barges. I have towed a few ex grey funnel line barges and they had some very odd shapes some sort of cross with a stem and curved swims. talk to any old-time merchant navy men and barges were just "them bleeding paint removers" i have started the great writing of a lighterman's view of lighters and how to model them. The odd thing is how much "crap" i carry about in my nut and getting it out on paper/screen is harder than the actual doing.





Title: Re: Thames lighters
Post by: Norseman on January 15, 2013, 10:47:38 PM
The odd thing is how much "'rubbish'" i carry about in my nut and getting it out on paper/screen is harder than the actual doing.
But just think how much Lighter you'll feel when it' out  {-)
Title: Re: Thames lighters
Post by: lighterman on January 16, 2013, 01:55:28 PM
oh we want to play the spoonerism and double entendre game huh? well i am walking on the [/size]ceiling over this article and my gussets are caulked!
[/size]
[/size]
Title: Re: Thames lighters
Post by: Norseman on January 16, 2013, 06:02:07 PM
[font=arial              gussets
:o so soak them in Lighter fuel
Title: Re: Thames lighters
Post by: tugnut on January 16, 2013, 07:24:58 PM
Somthing like these would look good on your tug
Title: Thames lighters
Post by: Chris G on January 16, 2013, 07:58:14 PM
Thanks tugnut


That looks absolutely fabulous, presume scratch build, the tug looks excellent but towing a pair, great.


That is in line with what I am hoping to achieve.


Great photo thanks Chris G
Title: Re: Thames lighters
Post by: tugnut on January 16, 2013, 08:06:52 PM
Hi Chris, they are scratch built.
regards John B
Title: Re: Thames lighters
Post by: dodes on January 16, 2013, 08:27:35 PM
Hi Lighterman, those grey funnel barges you refer to were not by chance ex US military ones from Hythe on the Southampton waterway. But yes I remember some unusual Thames lighters like those which were built to work the river Lee, long narrow with a rudder and tiller.
Title: Re: Thames lighters
Post by: lighterman on January 17, 2013, 10:10:15 AM
they look cracking! well hatched and sheeted as well. the design looks like the PLA S class and cory's for the lee.

Title: Re: Thames lighters
Post by: sailorboy61 on January 17, 2013, 03:08:59 PM
There was one of these on fleabay not so long back.
 
I thank you both for your suggestions, decision time  {:-{


Although the Mountfleet lighter does not look like the Thames lighter which were just basic floating tanks and there were many thousands of them, I think it is an attractive model. If Riverman and the lighter are ever seen together I will have a lot of explaining to do.


I thank you both for your interest, Take care Chris G   
Title: Re: Thames lighters
Post by: lighterman on January 17, 2013, 05:57:11 PM
Hi Lighterman, those grey funnel barges you refer to were not by chance ex US military ones from Hythe on the Southampton waterway. But yes I remember some unusual Thames lighters like those which were built to work the river Lee, long narrow with a rudder and tiller.
the ones i was thinking about were steel sometimes hatched and some others tanks. very similar shape to the concrete ones like this.
Title: Re: Thames lighters
Post by: dodes on January 17, 2013, 09:03:25 PM
Hi Lighterman, yes the MoD barges, where shaped like that concrete one, but had more rounded runs, there where two types of store lighters, the 250t size with a small deckhouse one end, the deckhouse was a combination of a w/c and a companionway to the living accom, the other was 100t size which had no crew accom. When fully loaded and deep, they where not so good as a Thames lighter to tow. The 250t ones where all numbered 11-- and the 100t were numbered from 1000 upwards.
Title: Re: Thames lighters
Post by: lighterman on January 18, 2013, 03:06:29 PM
I have got the two part mould of the scale (1/32) barge. LOA 31" Beam 8" draft mdl 3" when loaded to what would be "iron band deep" 6" freeboard she will carry 2 1/2 house bricks.
Bit hard to show but the fwd swim is on the right and the angle is much shallower than the after swim where the budget (fixed plate rudder) would be.
The tumblehome on these barges was rather sharp being 9 degree's from the chine to the iron band at the gunwale. all these dimensions where taken from a builders solid half block model of 6 barges built in holland for Braitwaite and Dean Ltd in 1937.
 
Title: Re: Thames lighters
Post by: Arrow5 on January 20, 2013, 11:58:32 AM
I was shown a very nice fibreglass model at Greenwich a few years ago by a riverman. It was a pro job and had a label glassed into the hold. Wish I had taken the details down.  Anybody recognise the model or the gentleman ? Picture dated 2008 but must be earlier, note Cutty Sark in background, pre fire.
Title: Re: Thames lighters
Post by: Circlip on January 20, 2013, 12:20:06 PM
Glimpses of shape and internal detail from the "Discovery" series on the houseboat conversion.
  Regards  Ian.
Title: Re: Thames lighters
Post by: Stavros on January 20, 2013, 01:51:58 PM
Is that a Mobile Marine Modles lighter, if it had a sticker inside it prob was
 
http://www.mobilemarinemodels.com/acatalog/__D__Class_Lighter.html (http://www.mobilemarinemodels.com/acatalog/__D__Class_Lighter.html)
 
Dave
Title: Re: Thames lighters
Post by: Arrow5 on January 20, 2013, 05:14:33 PM
You can see the sticker embedded in the resin on the hold.  Not vac-form, very different shape.
Title: Re: Thames lighters
Post by: dodes on January 21, 2013, 04:33:04 PM
That is a beut of a model, just how I remember them.
Title: Re: Thames lighters
Post by: Arrow5 on January 21, 2013, 05:33:12 PM
This might have been taken at the annual watermen`s barge pulling race, Greenwich to the Pool.  If I remember the crew was limited to three oarsmen, two at a time, one resting or steering (?)   Lots of colourful paint-jobs (sponsors, pubs etc) which would make a change from the workaday drab colours for a different model.  I still see the odd sponsored one moored on the Thames. www.greenlandpassage.co.uk/bargerace.html
Title: Re: Thames lighters
Post by: sailorboy61 on January 23, 2013, 11:56:01 AM
See photo earlier in the thread.....
 
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RC-VINTAGE-LIGHTER-TUG-BOAT-/290848925677?pt=UK_ToysGames_RadioControlled_JN&hash=item43b7f267ed (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RC-VINTAGE-LIGHTER-TUG-BOAT-/290848925677?pt=UK_ToysGames_RadioControlled_JN&hash=item43b7f267ed)
Title: Re: Thames lighters
Post by: Circlip on January 23, 2013, 12:48:31 PM
Calder Craft "Riverman"
 
  Regards  Ian.
Title: Re: Thames lighters
Post by: lighterman on February 25, 2013, 07:40:27 PM
Just pulled a GRP lighter/ barge hull for a fellow poster here. the mould needing a bit of repair and TLC since i moulded 6 from it last year. May do a new plug of a canal size barge in 1/32 max beam 13'6" or another swim head barge as i don't think this mould will last much longer.

Title: Re: Thames lighters
Post by: thamestug on March 29, 2013, 03:17:54 PM
Before the xmas break I had started building a Thames lighter to go with my Tosher. As the Tosher is about 1/16 scale the lighter was always going to be fairly big but eventually decided to scale it down a little bit to get within a 4' length of ply. The pics show how far it got before the weather closed down. Over engineered I know BUT all the materials used so far came out of a skip the builders next door were gradually filling up and with their permission the timber and ply offcuts were liberated.
Title: Re: Thames lighters
Post by: thamestug on March 29, 2013, 03:22:34 PM
Finally managed to get back in workshop now its a little bit warmer and progress to date. Size turned out to be about 45" x12". Still lots of rubbing down and fairing to shape to do and stern swim not attached permanently yet its only held by the half and half slotting around the budgetat the moment.
Title: Re: Thames lighters
Post by: lighterman on March 29, 2013, 04:54:56 PM
Thats the kind of build I like droppable models that require a truss to use :-))
Title: Re: Thames lighters
Post by: thamestug on March 29, 2013, 05:00:48 PM
You are right there M  :-)) . Not as shapely as one of yours and both swims same length but too late to alter. No internal details so will finish either sheeted or maybe even a tank barge. Be fun when i start skinning it with ply!!.  8) 8)
Title: Re: Thames lighters
Post by: lighterman on March 29, 2013, 05:05:26 PM
ha ha! wait till you start! you will never have enough hands and tacks when that ply starts peeling up and the glue will be everywhere! good luck P!

Title: Re: Thames lighters
Post by: tugnut on March 29, 2013, 07:52:24 PM
Thats looking good :-))
Title: Re: Thames lighters
Post by: thamestug on March 30, 2013, 01:44:13 PM
Thanks J
I think lighterman has got it right about the glue and peeling ply so i will get herself to help me so that I can blame her when it all goes wrong!! ok2 ok2
Title: Re: Thames lighters
Post by: thamestug on April 08, 2013, 03:50:15 PM
Got her 'plated' now without too much glue everywhere. First coat of primer on to see where she wants filler and more rubbing down [nd there are plenty of places!]
Title: Re: Thames lighters
Post by: thamestug on April 08, 2013, 03:56:00 PM
Couple of pics with 'jacko' alongside for comparison. Still not wholly to scale but who really wants to lug a 5' barge about!
Title: Re: Thames lighters
Post by: tugnut on April 08, 2013, 07:56:48 PM
She will look good towing that. your Smit tug is looking good to,get her ready for tug day :-)) .
 
regards John
Title: Re: Thames lighters
Post by: thamestug on April 09, 2013, 08:53:45 AM
Thanks John
 
Got to get the lighter finished and off the bench first. Been waiting weeks for some decent temperatures to get some paint on the 'neddy' and also to get back in the workshop. See  you in the 'summer'. cheers
Pete
Title: Re: Thames lighters
Post by: thamestug on April 14, 2013, 03:05:47 PM
Bit more progress. Been making 'bits out of stuff' most days. Removeable tank top on, probably secured by couple of screws in manholes eventually, ballast to be milk bottles full of lake water! Hopefully full strip down later next week and final cleaning up started.
Title: Re: Thames lighters
Post by: tugnut on April 14, 2013, 04:43:24 PM
Very nice Peter  :-))
Title: Re: Thames lighters
Post by: thamestug on April 22, 2013, 02:57:59 PM
Progress to date. Tank top detail to add and final finishing and painting.
Title: Re: Thames lighters
Post by: Arrow5 on April 22, 2013, 03:03:46 PM
Very nice,  it`ll weather nicely I`m sure.
Title: Re: Thames lighters
Post by: thamestug on April 22, 2013, 03:17:46 PM
Yes it will be weathered. Shame really but I can never remember seeing one with a shine on it! Must remember the white diamond on each bow and the toe rails as well. Name?.... how about CORBLIMEY.
Title: Re: Thames lighters
Post by: Arrow5 on April 22, 2013, 03:52:44 PM
Corblimey , perfick :-))
Title: Re: Thames lighters
Post by: sparkey on April 22, 2013, 04:50:08 PM
 {-) Great model of a Thames lighter,I grew up in Rotherhithe by the Surrey Docks, as a kid I sat on the swing bridge and watched the
lightermen move lighters around with just a pole great skill considering they must have weighed at least 50 tons,your model brought
back a lot of happy memories thanks for that,   Ray. :-)) :-)) :-)) [size=78%]   [/size]
Title: Re: Thames lighters
Post by: tugnut on April 22, 2013, 07:32:11 PM
corblimy, O0 another barge at bluewaters {-)  you will need a biger lake soon
Title: Re: Thames lighters
Post by: tugmad on April 22, 2013, 08:06:34 PM
Looks brilliant Pete well done,trials on wed?

Ha ha little bro you will have to move back.
Title: Re: Thames lighters
Post by: thamestug on April 22, 2013, 08:21:09 PM
Thanks Geo
Not this Weds as tied up elsewhere. J if it gets too crowded at Bluewater I have heard there is a biggish puddle down Herne Bay way!!
Title: Re: Thames lighters
Post by: thamestug on April 23, 2013, 04:07:57 PM
Think all parts made now except for name boards.
Title: Re: Thames lighters
Post by: lighterman on April 24, 2013, 09:25:49 AM
Nice job! I hope the sockets for the "spirit" boards are going on just in case you get a full freight of 100 octane for Fulham!

Title: Re: Thames lighters
Post by: thamestug on April 25, 2013, 04:44:19 PM
Thanks M. I think the only spirits this one will be carrying is Rum. Already has been carrying plenty of Rum looking at the state of it.
Title: Re: Thames lighters
Post by: thamestug on April 26, 2013, 03:36:33 PM
Almost there, just a few last little bits of painting to do.
Title: Re: Thames lighters
Post by: lighterman on April 26, 2013, 04:04:46 PM
FANTASTIC!  :-))
Title: Re: Thames lighters
Post by: tugnut on April 26, 2013, 09:04:03 PM
RUM did you say Rum  :-))  looks great  Pete
Title: Re: Thames lighters
Post by: sparkey on April 27, 2013, 07:13:22 AM
 :-)) Rum lovely Rum,nice with lime juice, grated ginger and ice, that is if we get a summer this year,Ray. :-)) :-)) :-)) 
Title: Re: Thames lighters
Post by: thamestug on May 02, 2013, 11:36:30 AM
Afloat and under tow on the lake. Pics by Tugmad.
Title: Re: Thames lighters
Post by: Arrow5 on May 02, 2013, 12:40:36 PM
Wonderful combination.   Barge seems a bit too high in the water, do they ride that high when empty ?     Needs a waterman at the helm.  Well done Tugmad.
Title: Re: Thames lighters
Post by: lighterman on May 02, 2013, 01:02:17 PM
Well done. really captures the SPIRIT of days gone by! barges will float that high when empty. Most tank barges had the tanks able to float out should the barge blob.

Title: Re: Thames lighters
Post by: thamestug on May 02, 2013, 01:29:05 PM
Thanks guys. Tugmad took the piccies when she first went afloat and must admit the barge wandered all over the place in the breeze. The pic below shows her with four milk bottles full of water in the hold which put her down a bit and was then much more controllable. Dont know what I would have to put in to get her down to the band! Anyway quite pleased with the general look.
Title: Re: Thames lighters
Post by: Arrow5 on May 02, 2013, 01:49:00 PM
Well Done Thamestug too :embarrassed:      Some tins of beer would be suitable ballast ? {:-{ 
Title: Re: Thames lighters
Post by: html on May 02, 2013, 07:35:52 PM
That would look good behind my Cory Regain, when I get it finished
Title: Re: Thames lighters
Post by: lighterman on May 02, 2013, 09:16:01 PM
try her on a head a quarter rope take the quarter rope in a bit tighter and sheer her out of the wash.

Title: Re: Thames lighters
Post by: tugnut on May 02, 2013, 09:23:52 PM
Well done Pete :-)) :-)) :-))
Title: Re: Thames lighters
Post by: Norseman on May 04, 2013, 12:40:06 PM
Best wedding photo I've seen this year  :-))

Dave
Title: Re: Thames lighters
Post by: thamestug on August 19, 2013, 04:50:04 PM
Just pulled a GRP lighter/ barge hull for a fellow poster here. the mould needing a bit of repair and TLC since i moulded 6 from it last year. May do a new plug of a canal size barge in 1/32 max beam 13'6" or another swim head barge as i don't think this mould will last much longer.

Finally got round to starting this Lighterman!!
Title: Re: Thames lighters
Post by: Blazer on August 19, 2013, 05:53:43 PM
here two photos of a lighter wich I started to build a vew month ago.
Regards Stephan
Title: Re: Thames lighters
Post by: tugnut on August 19, 2013, 07:33:25 PM
Hi Stephen they look well built, very neet :-)) .
 
regards John b
Title: Re: Thames lighters
Post by: lighterman on August 19, 2013, 07:43:05 PM

Finally got round to starting this Lighterman!!
Oh well done sir! thats starting to look the part! be good to see it alongside the corblimy behind your tosher!
Title: Re: Thames lighters
Post by: lighterman on August 19, 2013, 07:47:24 PM
here two photos of a lighter wich I started to build a vew month ago.
Regards Stephan
Thats a very nice barge! Humber keel or a Mersey flat? Once I have finished the 6 models on the building list i would like to get round to building a "long-un" a canal/lea barge.

Title: Re: Thames lighters
Post by: thamestug on September 06, 2013, 02:34:13 PM
Bit more progress made. hatch covering to go on and final finishing
Title: Re: Thames lighters
Post by: Chris G on September 06, 2013, 03:33:09 PM
They look really very good. Credit to you, start my models again soon not been near them during the summer but after todays weather ready to start again.
Catching up on 'Mayhem' but those lighters are so good might well consider doing something similar. I have a 'Mountfield' lighter model not yet started and am wondering if it could be modified to a Trent style of motorised barge (Humber barge).
Title: Re: Thames lighters
Post by: lighterman on September 06, 2013, 05:11:12 PM
Bit more progress made. hatch covering to go on and final finishing
Thats looking really good! well done and the weathering is excellent.
Title: Re: Thames lighters
Post by: Skimmer Fan on September 07, 2013, 07:37:13 AM
Chris
I saw this article in Marine Modelling International issue Oct 2010 thought you may be interested. Cannot find the magazine at home but have found the information below.
MOTORISING THE MOUNTFLEET LIGHTER NO.7 KIT
Derek Attree makes an interesting and different modification to a commercial kit

 
Title: Re: Thames lighters
Post by: Chris G on September 07, 2013, 09:56:18 AM
Thanks for that, very interesting and I am sure it could make a very good model, there is certainly lots of archive stuff on all of these barges.
Many thanks will keep you informed of my progress, or not!!!!! Chris
Title: Re: Thames lighters
Post by: Chris G on September 14, 2013, 11:16:05 AM
Thanks Skimmer Fan for the information regarding motorising a Mountfleet Lighter, I sent for and have received a back issue of Marine Modelling Int. and it covers some of the basic principles of the conversion. Still undecided what to build and remembered the other day the petroleum barges that used to come up the River Trent to Colwick fuel depot, could be an interesting project but would the Mountfleet Hull convert.
 I have found some , not many, pictures of the barges navigating their way up river but need to find a photo of a hull out of the water. Where would we be without Google and the hunt is on. Might be worth a visit to Yorkshire Waterways Museum.
Anyway thanks for the help Chris G
 
 
Title: Re: Thames lighters
Post by: Skimmer Fan on September 14, 2013, 01:17:33 PM
Have a look at the sites below the first one may be usefull.  :-)
www.clapsons.co.uk/leicester_trader.htm‎ (http://www.clapsons.co.uk/leicester_trader.htm‎)   Try archives
www.aukevisser.nl/uk/id527.htm‎ (http://www.aukevisser.nl/uk/id527.htm‎)
Title: Re: Thames lighters
Post by: thamestug on September 14, 2013, 03:34:46 PM
Hatchboards on, cloth on, cleats, battens and wedges fitted on sides. Yep I know the wedges should probably be steel and attached with a chain but there must be somebody about with bolt croppers!!!
Title: Re: Thames lighters
Post by: tugnut on September 14, 2013, 05:42:43 PM
Looking good i like the detail :-)) Pete
Title: Re: Thames lighters
Post by: lighterman on September 15, 2013, 10:30:26 AM
Very well done mate  :-))
Ready for a lazy 6 start away from follyhouse roads down to load in the KG! the weathering is great and the battens and wedges are those little details that really show up to my eye.
M
Title: Re: Thames lighters
Post by: thamestug on September 15, 2013, 04:50:56 PM
thanks all
 
cleats and wedges etc to go on fore and aft ends of hatch, final touch up and then see what she tows like.
Title: Re: Thames lighters
Post by: Chris G on September 15, 2013, 06:50:19 PM
She looks fantastic, it will be interesting to see pictures of her in tow. 
Title: Re: Thames lighters
Post by: Norseman on September 15, 2013, 08:00:26 PM
Have a look at the sites below the first one may be usefull.  :-)
www.clapsons.co.uk/leicester_trader.htm‎ (http://www.clapsons.co.uk/leicester_trader.htm‎)   Try archives
www.aukevisser.nl/uk/id527.htm‎ (http://www.aukevisser.nl/uk/id527.htm‎)
I just get a 404 message on those links {:-{

Nice build and paint - looking forward to the next pics.

Dave
Title: Re: Thames lighters
Post by: Skimmer Fan on September 15, 2013, 08:15:51 PM
Right click on the shortcut. Select copy shortcut. Paste into the address box at the top of the screen click on the arrow on the right of the box. This should work
Title: Re: Thames lighters
Post by: Arrow5 on September 15, 2013, 08:17:46 PM
Yes I got the same but found an interesting other www.humber-barges.co.uk (http://www.humber-barges.co.uk/index)  Some of these need to be modeled.
Title: Re: Thames lighters
Post by: Arrow5 on September 15, 2013, 08:20:03 PM
Now MY link doesnt work ??? {:-{
Title: Re: Thames lighters
Post by: Skimmer Fan on September 15, 2013, 08:35:37 PM
your link does not work for me either. But if you follow my last post I missed out you need to click on the search magnifying glass before you click on the arrow.
Title: Re: Thames lighters
Post by: Chris G on September 15, 2013, 10:27:30 PM
Thanks for all of the links but unfortunately my computer skills are not up to all of the clever bits.
I sometimes feel I am just a short time off pigeon post. I will continue the 'Google' route until I see a rear hull section of a Humber barge, I need to be sure how to modify the hull I have. Would hate to create something that was a scale model of the 'ARC'.
No hurry have lots to finish and several to start. Thanks to you all Chris G
 
Title: Thames lighters
Post by: Chris G on September 18, 2013, 04:25:50 PM
Hello Stephen, 'blazer'
Sorry I was unable to reply to your question direct, again my computer skills are at times lacking. To answer your question regarding colour to topsides of 'Riverman', I have looked in my box of colours of which there are many and believe the colour used was either 149 or 105. I do hope that helps you. It is a good colour easy to apply and will cover the odd blemish although on your model I would doubt there are any blemishes. Good luck.
Still looking for help re Humber barges. Can anybody help with either a drawing or picture of the stern of one of these vessels out of the water. All of the pictures that I can find are showing the bow of the boat. I need to decide how to design the keel, skeg if there is one and the rudder. Any help will be greatly appreciated.
Regards Chris g
Title: Re: Thames lighters
Post by: Blazer on October 01, 2013, 10:54:44 AM
Hello Chris,
 
thanks for your answer. Yesterday i did the painting.
IŽll show some pictures later.
 
Theres is another question: how long should be the distance beetwen the tug and the barge?
Are there any rules?
 
Regards stephan
Title: Thames lighters
Post by: Chris G on October 01, 2013, 11:07:34 AM
Still looking for help re Humber barges. Can anybody help with either a drawing or picture of the stern of one of these vessels out of the water. All of the pictures that I can find are showing the bow of the boat. I need to decide how to design the keel, skeg if there is one and the rudder. Any help will be greatly appreciated.
Still desperate for information,  {:-{ {:-{ {:-{    :(( :(( :(( 
Hi Stephan sorry but could only guess at towing distance from photo's seen. I think possibly scale goes out of the window and it is down to what works on the lake. The old trial and error, without too much error. Make sure the towing vessel is well ballasted or the barge might end up deciding on the direction of travel.
Regards Chris G
Title: Re: Thames lighters
Post by: Skimmer Fan on October 01, 2013, 01:05:05 PM
You could try this website anything is worth a try when you are desperate
humber-barges.co.uk
For more information on any aspect of Humber Barges please contact us on:
   
Telephone:
Christine Oatway, Managing Director: 0757 2847006 (24 hrs)
 David Lowe, Director: 07785 502478
 Gerald Whiteley, Director:                      01282 812456
Email:   
Humber Barges (oatwaychris@yahoo.co.uk)
Humber Barges Ltd:
95 Denby Dale Road, Wakefield, WF2 8DJ
Title: Re: Thames lighters
Post by: lighterman on October 01, 2013, 01:58:04 PM


Chris.
Try this for size. :)
http://barges.apolloduck.co.uk/feature.phtml?id=297980

Title: Re: Thames lighters
Post by: Blazer on October 01, 2013, 02:58:28 PM
Hello,
here are two more pics of my barge.
Painting is nearly finished, some details are still missing.
Regards Stephan
Title: Thames lighters
Post by: Chris G on October 01, 2013, 04:56:42 PM
Well thanks fella's nearly but not quite and nobody gets the coconut!!!!! {-)
Skimmer Fan, I had seen this site which deals with the current business involving carrying on 200 ton plus barges but felt awkward phoning the M.D. and asking if she had a photo of one of her barges 'back view' and out of the water. having said that I am becoming desperate so who knows.
Lighterman, thanks again although the one shown on Apolloduck for sale is a dumb barge and I wish to have a prop and motor. Always thought this a strange name for a site selling boats!
Blazer, Stephan they look really good and I am sure you will have great fun setting up the towing, would love to be there for the 'maiden voyage'.
Never fail to be surprised and grateful for all of the help on offer from the members of M.B.M. Many thanks Chris G 
 
Title: Re: Thames lighters
Post by: Netleyned on October 01, 2013, 05:45:30 PM
The Spider t is a Humber sloop with various websites
with lots of photos .Google Spider t and you will find a
photo showing the rudder and prop.
Sorry I can't post a link because I am out on the Humber
using my phone to post this.

Ned
Title: Re: Thames lighters
Post by: Howard on October 01, 2013, 06:02:01 PM
Hi Chris,
 I have a new book by Malcolm Slater. called Humbersides Working Barges 2012-13.
ISBN No978-1-871392-50-0 lots of nice photos and on the back is a nice one out of the water after a refit in 1983.  where are you Chris as just up from our club at goole whers the Yorkshire waterways museum lots of info where.
                      Regards Howard.
Title: Re: Thames lighters
Post by: lighterman on October 01, 2013, 09:34:27 PM
Model boats used to sell a set of plans "frank Jameson" (middle age memory loss) suffice to say I recall seeing one which was very like a tug I worked on that had been damaged when it was being built during the war and to save steel and time the after end had no "shape" and was close to a swim with a triangular bit where the stern tube came out. If you can find any pictures of a TID or one of Harris' hydroconic hulls you wont be far wrong with the shape for the after end of a Humber barge, they did have skeg's that were simple bars with a gudgeon for the rudder post to sit in.

Title: Re: Thames lighters
Post by: lighterman on October 01, 2013, 09:50:06 PM
Hello Chris,
 
thanks for your answer. Yesterday i did the painting.
IŽll show some pictures later.
 
Theres is another question: how long should be the distance beetwen the tug and the barge?
Are there any rules?
 
Regards stephan
All depends on how much damage you fancy doing  :-))  Loaded craft' slack em back" so your wash gets away.. empty hold em up short so your wash goes under em and you will have em where you want them. light craft can be put into line with a handful on the telegraph. or a stop rope shorter than the tow rope  to one side to sheer them over one side or the other. I think it was common practice on the humber to tow on wires with the barge manned and being steered by a hand. we use a similar system on the Thames and surrounding waterways mainly up river and the canals.
Title: Thames lighters
Post by: Chris G on October 01, 2013, 09:57:26 PM
Where do I start ? thanks for the responses.
Netleyned, Ned thanks for the information relating to the Spider T which seems a fantastic project, I think it is older than my visions of my model and I was thinking of a 'donkey' rather than those flappy things (sails). Curious about you replying from the Humber!
Howard, I live near Nottingham and perhaps a trip to the Yorkshire waterway museum would help, I will meantime check out Malcolm Slater book. Thanks for your interest and I will keep you all informed.
Lighterman, Interesting and I will check out Frank Jameson and the TID. My view is that the stern was a simple and cheap compromise and low tech by todays standards. Looking at some of the wonderful models in this 'blog' I can visualise what I should do. Shapely cut back stern, large rudder supported by a skeg and of course prop. Many thanks for all the ideas that you have helped me with since I started this project.
Best regards Chris G     
Title: Re: Thames lighters
Post by: lighterman on October 01, 2013, 10:33:08 PM
Right thats the R&D out of the way.. over to the drawing office... then the lofting shed. order the steel... and GET ON WITH IT! this is no way to run a shipyard  :}
Title: Thames lighters
Post by: Chris G on October 02, 2013, 10:41:13 AM
 
Ha Ha
You sound like my wife!!!! hav'nt you finished that little job yet?
 
Title: Re: Thames lighters
Post by: Blazer on October 03, 2013, 11:36:04 AM
Hi lighterman,
thanks for your answer regarding the towing-distance betwen the tugboat and the barge.
I will try with a ropelength of one length of the tug.
Than IŽll see how it works.
Regards Stephan
 
Title: Re: Thames lighters
Post by: lighterman on October 03, 2013, 01:23:36 PM
looks good! Its when you ease up and you see your tow go from behind to alongside! unless you a current to round into consider your windage as a good way to slowdown or stop. Remember you have not got a gang of little deackhands to pick up the rope as you back up but you will find the best capstan is under the boat at the back , the Whimwham! Some of the finest towing done with models i have seen is the chaps at blue water much use of the gog rope and letting the weight of the tug do its job.

Title: Thames lighters
Post by: Chris G on October 03, 2013, 01:45:48 PM
Love to hear your description of the events that give most of us the horrors and nightmares. The best capstan being under the boat is an understatement if ever I heard one and is often witnessed with boats manoeuvring in marina's. It is amazing the fun and games that a mooring line left un supervised can cause.
Title: Re: Thames lighters
Post by: lighterman on October 03, 2013, 02:03:53 PM
Wait til you get a towrope go under the counter and watch the tug spin. another good one is where the towing hand has the tow rope up too short and jams it so you quarter yourself and start going in smaller circles  <*< . if you want to see  the outcome of getting quartered watch this:
http://youtu.be/QEfUblSDzww
or when a gog rope parts or is too slack.
http://youtu.be/TUJsPrySkKE
sods law says when you are not concentrating thats when it goes wrong!

Title: : Thames lighters
Post by: Chris G on October 19, 2013, 10:21:39 AM
Hello Howard
Well I have received my copy of Humberside barges 2012/2013 and yes great pictures and strangely one of the back end, unusual!
My plan is to get myself up to Goole next week and hopefully more info from the exhibits there. Meanwhile 'lighterman' I am still at R&D stage soon to be into production. When I get there cannot imagine what I will ballast a 36" barge with and who will lift it. I will think about fitting a Hiab on the back of the Mondeo, there's a thought.
The story continues. Chris G
Title: Re: : Thames lighters
Post by: lighterman on October 20, 2013, 04:23:45 AM
1 Pint plastic milk cartons make for good ballast just fill up from the pond and load away! then when it's time to shove off just empty them out.

Title: Thames lighters
Post by: Chris G on October 20, 2013, 08:30:10 AM
Thanks for the tip and there was me thinking of submersible pumps and built in tanks. I still fancy the Hiab on the back of the Mondeo though.
Take care Chris G