Model Boat Mayhem
The Shipyard ( Dry Dock ): Builds & Questions => Pleasure boats, Sports, Race, Power and Leisure Boats: => Topic started by: Steve on January 06, 2013, 07:00:46 pm
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Hello, after attempting to this post a few times hopefully this one will be okay,
My dear wife presented the 46" fibre glass version of the Huntsman for Christmas, I am going to attempt to put everything down on here as I go along.
Maybe if anyone spots a mistake or has advice please don't hesitate to comment,
I have had a nightmare loading photos on here even after reducing them.
So I have put a link to a Picasa web album to show my progress so far which is at the end of this post.
My idea is to use twin 900 motors water cooled running on 24 v Dc using an Action P94 mixer driving X55 props.
Cheers for now,
Steve.
https://picasaweb.google.com/107161168091837550562/HuntsmanBuild?authuser=0&authkey=Gv1sRgCNm0xdX88LP9NQ&feat=directlink
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Should anyone have looked at my pictures, the first one is a prototype working trim tab, then the marking out on paper of the drive line, I am doing all of this without the clutter of any of the ribs fitted that support the deck.
There is also a picture of one of the 900 motors fitted to its base, mounting and cooling cool in place.
Hope you enjoy.
Steve.
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Hope you enjoy your new build Steve, I'll keep looking in as I'm sure will others
Dave
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Thanks for that, The next part of my build is to make to prop supports, this will set the height, I'm allowing 10mm clearance from the tip of the prop to the hull. Once the supports are made, I will make a dummy shaft to represent the shaft of the motor. This will attach to the motor bracket enabling me to align everything ready for glueing. I have previously assembled all the inner wooden framework so that I could work out the best position for the motor brackets.
Another thing on my list is to fit some 4mm tubes to the prop shaft for oiling purposes.
But first as I said I must press on with the prop shaft supports.
These will be made from some 10mm brass bar which has been drilled out 8mm to fit the prob tube.
To this I will braze some 14 swg brass either side and file this to shape.
Cheers for now
Steve.
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Today I have cracked on with the prop shaft support brackets,
Just need to add a mounting flange and it should be ready for a trial fit, check on my web album for my updated pictures.
Tomorrow I am going to fit some 4mm brass tubing maybe 10mm long to the prop shafts for oiling purposes.
Just a simple soldered joint should be adequate.
Thanks for your interest
Steve.
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Hello again, I have had to change the link to my photos but they now show a lot more,
Last night I did another trial fir of my prop shafts.
Everything now seems okay ready for glueing, plus I fitted the trim tabs and actuating rods.
Here is the new link
https://picasaweb.google.com/107161168091837550562/HuntsmanBuild04?authuser=0&authkey=Gv1sRgCIHF_Zinq9jq0QE&feat=directlink
Cheers for now
Steve
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I will try again and add a picture or two on here, this is a view of the underside showing prop shafts and trim tabs.
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This is the alignment of the motor mounts, rather than use the motor which is a bit heavy at this stage I used a dummy shaft to line everything up.
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This is one of the two 900 motors I will be using, complete with cooling coil and motor disconnect.
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Im not sure how many amps those 900s pull, but be careful with tamiya plugs as they might not be able to handle the current
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Well thanks for that, I had not really thought of the plugs.
As this is only my second build Im open to any criticism or help. In fact its my first build using decent sized motors.
I know the ESC's are rated at 20amps each but I think you have to take into account stall currents if Im right.
As I say its all trial and error, which is all part of the fun.
Cheers for that
Steve.
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Looking at the motor charts it looks like 8amp on 12v, so I presume if I doubled the voltage this would also double the current?
What does concern me is that the stall current is 54amp which I figure would not do the ESC's much good.
So it looks as though I will have to fit 20amp fuses to protect the ESC's ?
Much to think about.
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I would definitely ditch the Tamiya plugs from the outset, solder direct from motor to ESC or use something like 'powerpoles' or Deans connectors that can handle some decent current.
Your hardware manufacturing is impressive, nice brass work.
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Im using these on my Huntsman brushless build for battery to ESC connection and 4mm bulleys from motor to ESC
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__9194__EC5_5mm_Connector_Pair_.html
These are used frequently by the large e-heli guys (large helis can pull well over 100A) so should more than cope with the 900s
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Very Nice neat build.
Are the trim tabs coming below the transom???? It might just be the picture.
Jack
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Hi again,
I think its the picture, there just hanging down in their free state at the moment Im looking into the actuation mechanism at the moment plus lots of other things, Has anyone had any successful results with the windscreen, as I know it causes some headaches.
I have EC5 connectors on order thanks for pointing that one out.
Steve.
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Trial fit of the framework into the hull you need lots of clamps for this job. there seems to be quite a bit of material to remove from the hull especially towards the stern. I will get a better idea after glueing and filling.
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Hi Steve
http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=21584.0
It's a thread that you might want to look at, and there is a windshield method there too.
Keep up the good work.
Dave
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Thank you for that thread Dave, very informative, I did build this model many years ago at the time it cost £60 and that was from a local shop.
I think it was 1992.
But due to personal reasons it never got finished and I said one day I would do her again.
I am alot more critical now than I was then.. I just want this one to look right, So I am going to get it as close to the real one as I possibly can.
Off to do more glueing now.
Steve.
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I have a complete wreck in the Shed - got thrown in with an RTTL buy.
Dave
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Hi Steve,
If the 900 motors need thát much cooling, you got the setup all wrong..., hopefully it won't come to that.
As it happens, a coil around the can doesn't constitute much cooling due to the very small contact surface between the can and the tubing.
Adding heatconductive paste and covering the coil with shrinkwrap (to protect your cloths) helps a bit, but if the coil isn't enough, adding brushtab cooling takes away more heat from where it's generated, at the brushes.
If the motor really has to work hard and overheating is a concern, remove the coil and add a full jacket, where the water runs directly on the can (isolated with a thin layer of clear tape to prevent rust), as shown in the picture:
(http://www.modelbouwforum.nl/forums/members/pompebled-albums-motorkoeling-picture4093-cooling-jacket-700bb-1.jpg)
This jacket is so effective, the moisture inside the hull will condensate on it, specially when it's still cold outside...
Regards, Jan.
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Jan,
The 'jacket' cooling is clear.
Any chance of a close up detail of 'brush' cooling.
Thank you.
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Hi RAAArtGunner,
The principle is very simple, a brass tube, soldered onto the brushtab.
As the brushtabs of Speed motors are held in position by plastic, it's essential to work quick, in order to avoid overheating the plastic, which in turn would cause the brushes to move out of position, ruining your motor...
I use a pair of roundnose pliers to bend the tab according the radius of the tube used (usually Ø 4mm thin walled brass) and pre- tin both tab and pipe with a 80-100W soldering iron.
I adapted a wooden washpeg to hold the brass tube in position, so I can solder the two together quickly withouh having to resort to using pliers, which would draw heat from the iron.
(http://www.modelbouwforum.nl/forums/members/pompebled-albums-motorkoeling-picture29622-knijper-koelpijpje.jpg)
The pipe in the picture is too long, shorten it prior to soldering it in place.
I use the same washpeg to hold both cooling pipe and motor wire in place to be able to solder the wire in place without the brass pipe falling off again.
Regards, Jan.
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Thank you :-)) :-))
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I have a complete wreck in the Shed - got thrown in with an RTTL buy.
Dave
Hi Dave,
You had me puzzled for a while with the 'RTTL buy', but after some searcing it had to be a 'Vosper Rescue Target Towing Launch', right?
How bad of a wreck is the Huntsman? Is it worth shipping to the Netherlands, so I can 'finally' own one (once restored)?
Regards, Jan.
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It will be a total refurbishment and the flexi prop can come out too. It is on my 'to do' list. :D
Dave
Edit - I will look for one Jan - I will let you know if I find one
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Hiya Jan,
In response to what you said about cooling, to be honest I don't have a clue how hot they run, but as you said the contact area is small so thats why I made a close fitting coil and covered the whole length of the 900 to increase the area of contact, it maybe over kill or it may not.
But at least now its done I wont have to mess around with it again.
But thanks for your remarks.
Steve.
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Hi Steve,
If the boat doesn't get too heavy in the end, two 900 motors should not have any trouble moving a 116 cm (46") hull, heat should not be an issue unless you really overdo it on propsize and pitch.
I'd start with a smaller size than the X-55 in your OP to be on the safe side for the first runs.
I'll follow your build with interest.
Regards, Jan.
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Yes thanks for your interest, I hope it helps new people to the hobby.
I have learnt such a lot from this forum and often follow different threads.
My last build was the Robbe Atlantis which was quite a challenge at times but very rewarding.
As its been to cold to be in the shed I have even making the front railing just to keep chugging alongs.
Steve.
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The kit provides a length of brass rod to make the railings, which isn't quite the same as chrome, I had some railings chrome plated on my Atlantis, cost me 70 quid, so as the Huntsman's are alot more straight forward I used 3mm stainless steel tube with brazed joints, I made a perspex template of the bow drilled where the mounting holes would be best positioned and formed the tube to shape.
I also brazed some stainless washers to the tubes where they entered the deck.
I used silverflo 55 brazing rod with easyflo flux, both are quite easy to get hold of on the internet.
Steve.
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nice work on that fender, looks real smart :-))
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Hi RAAArtGunner,
The principle is very simple, a brass tube, soldered onto the brushtab.
As the brushtabs of Speed motors are held in position by plastic, it's essential to work quick, in order to avoid overheating the plastic, which in turn would cause the brushes to move out of position, ruining your motor...
I use a pair of roundnose pliers to bend the tab according the radius of the tube used (usually Ø 4mm thin walled brass) and pre- tin both tab and pipe with a 80-100W soldering iron.
I adapted a wooden washpeg to hold the brass tube in position, so I can solder the two together quickly withouh having to resort to using pliers, which would draw heat from the iron.
(http://www.modelbouwforum.nl/forums/members/pompebled-albums-motorkoeling-picture29622-knijper-koelpijpje.jpg)
The pipe in the picture is too long, shorten it prior to soldering it in place.
I use the same washpeg to hold both cooling pipe and motor wire in place to be able to solder the wire in place without the brass pipe falling off again.
Regards, Jan.
Another quick tip to add to this... heat the tube before soldering so the soldering time is reduced further
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Hi Steve,
If the 900 motors need thát much cooling, you got the setup all wrong..., hopefully it won't come to that.
As it happens, a coil around the can doesn't constitute much cooling due to the very small contact surface between the can and the tubing.
Adding heatconductive paste and covering the coil with shrinkwrap (to protect your cloths) helps a bit, but if the coil isn't enough, adding brushtab cooling takes away more heat from where it's generated, at the brushes.
If the motor really has to work hard and overheating is a concern, remove the coil and add a full jacket, where the water runs directly on the can (isolated with a thin layer of clear tape to prevent rust), as shown in the picture:
(http://www.modelbouwforum.nl/forums/members/pompebled-albums-motorkoeling-picture4093-cooling-jacket-700bb-1.jpg)
This jacket is so effective, the moisture inside the hull will condensate on it, specially when it's still cold outside...
Regards, Jan.
Can you give me an insight into how these jackets work? is there another plate underneath the jacket with a recess in it to make a cavity between the motor case and the outer jacket?
Steve
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Hi Steve,
The cavity is formed by a layer of closed cell adhesive foam, running around inside the edge of the brass plate, where the brass tubing is soldered onto.
The foam forms a rim, 2-3 mm wide and by turning o the bolts, the foam is compressed slightly, giving a watertight seal, the waterfilm is only half a mm thick.
I have pictures and a how to on my old computer, but the HD has been damaged so I don't have access to that data; I'm sending the HD to a specialist who'll try and retreive the data tomorrow.
If this works, I'll post the pictures here.
Regards, Jan.
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I have been glueing the propshaft supports today, and fixing the rudder supports along with preparing the linkages.
At the same time I have made a start on the linkages for the trim tabs.
Lots of epoxying to do at the moment, perfect job for the snowy weather.
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Just been checking out a new web site from a supplier I use called Macc Models, they sell lots of raw materials and some quite interesting things also. There classed as a model engineering suppliers.
I can highly recommend them.
http://maccmodels.co.uk
Steve.
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Steve the build is a credit to you, very impressed.
I built a wooden one 36" some years ago and still love it. I was interested in the 'pulpit' something I never got around to and which makes the model.
If it is of any help I made my windscreen by glueing a plastic open box section to the deck. I then cut out of flexible plexiglass of the dimensions that looked in keeping the screen and glued that into the plastic section. It was finished by glueing the same size open box section onto the top of the screen. Simple really but took many hours and after several years has remained acceptable.
Maybe a few ideas for you to 'tweak'
Chris G
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Hiya Chris thank you for your comments and suggestions, I find it fascinating on here, everyone is there to help and learn.
This weekend I have been sorting out water inlets and outlets plus a few extra webs here and there, the one thing with the Huntsman is once the deck is glued down theres alot less space to be able to access. with fitting working trim tabs I had to remove part of the rear bulkhead.
So alot of planning is required. I also have been offering up speed controllers, deciding were the receivers going to go just so I can get all the brackets struts etc fitted prior to finally epoxying everything up. Then will prime all the wood inside and get it painted prior to fitting the deck.
Will post more pictures later today.
Ta ra for now
Steve.
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After weighing a few things up, Im using a Spektrum receiver powered by a 5 cell 6v pack, I read that the Spektrum will take anything up to 9.6v, So I will keep my other batteries purely for the motors.
As I am also using an Action P94 mixer I will have to use an inline regulator I have looked this up to be an Action P99 this will drop the 6v down to 5v making the voltage safe for the Action electronic components.
The other thing I have been looking at is my water cooling, Im using the standard setup i.e. water scoop behind the props through to the motors and then out through the hull sides.
I was wondering whether to use a car windscreen washer pump.
I bought one the other week for a fiver, the only thing is I would like to use the pump with an Esc to control the flow. Has anyone sourced a Esc that would do the job?
My idea is a "Y" piece from the water scoops through the pump .
then a "Y" piece out to each motor its either that or two pumps which I think would be a bit over the top.
Steve.
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most RC car brushed ESC will do the job.... only problem is at full speed it will squirt quite a distance. And they are not self priming... im using a small peristatic(sp) pump on my 36" with a vintage solid state ESC (I need it running at about 40% so more recent ESC's tend to screech)
I have mine setup on a 3 position switch on the TX pos 1 = off, 2 40% (looks almost scale) and pos 3 is panic! full speed. I have a quite funky TX and can set the switch so that the increase from 0-40 and 40-100% takes time (Currently set at about 2 seconds) to take stress off the motor.
it's possible to Y it in to the main drive channel you could end up with a fire monitor type jet from the exhaust
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Hi Steve,
When the drive train is dialed in properly, I think you can do without the extra hassle of a pump feeding the cooling circuit, if you use a pressurefree system, consisting of an intake behind the prop, angled forward and an outlet out of the propwash under the hull, slanted towards the transom.
This rearward facing outlet creates suction once the system has been filled (by running the boat forward).
Once the air is out of the tubing the flow in the system keeps going, even when you're making the model reverse.
I even use this pressureless system in my fast electrics, where everything sticking out under the hull causes drag, so on those hulls, the inlet and outlet are sanded flush with the hull and still work flawlessly:
(http://www.modelbouwforum.nl/forums/members/pompebled-albums-arowana-picture28983-drukloos.jpg)
Running the tubing inside the hull as low as possible helps getting the flow going, also avoid long lines of silicon tubing, the drag inside is very high.
I use 4 mm thin walled aluminum tubing for the long stretches and only use silicon tubing near the motor (and ESC if required).
Granted, you don't have water coming out of the exhausts, but for that purpose a peristaltic pump would work better than a windscreen washerpump with it's high output (and powerconsumption!).
Also keep in mind the average windscreen washer pump isn't designed to run continuously, the motor is just a simple 540 type, which will overheat quickly when it has to work permanently (don't ask how I found that out...)
I don't recall you mentioning which ESC's you're going to use, but, unless they are extremely efficient and/or much bigger than required, most ESC's tend to run warm/hot when the motor is running partial throttle for a prolonged time.
Adding watercooling may be an option.
Regards, Jan.
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I have put my outlets through the side of the hull close to the motors, is this correct? or would they exit through the exhausts in the transom..these are all things Im unsure about.
Steve.
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I have my outlet on the transom
My mistake was having the outlet too high, which caused problems with the unpressurised system hence the need for a pump.
As they say there's more than one way to skin a cat! :)
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Ok thanks, I was going to put mine in the transom, maybe I still will !!!
Is your outlet above the water line I presume it is.
Steve.
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Oh I forgot to ask where do you get these pumps from?
I have a channel with a potentiometer on so I can adjust the flow to what ever suits.
Steve.
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Thinking on....I was going to reproduce the exhaust pipes at the transom (Just for show)
I could connect the water outlet to these couldn't I? {:-{
Steve.
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on the full sized vessel , the cooling water exits through the exhaust , this has two benifits as it assists quietening the exhaust noise as well as cooling the exhaust gasses
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Cheers mate you have made my mind up for me, Im going to adapt the exhausts to get rid of the cooling water.
:-))
Steve.
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I have put my outlets through the side of the hull close to the motors, is this correct? or would they exit through the exhausts in the transom..these are all things Im unsure about.Steve.
Hi Steve,
Exiting through the side is the shortest way (= less drag) and allows you to see if there's flow in the cooling system.
Should the flow be not sufficient or stop when moving slow, replacing the exits to the bottom, slanted rearward will add suction, making the flow more constant and reliable at low speed.
Running them through the fake exhaust adds drag and compromizes a low flow system, better add a peristaltic pump for such a gadget.
Regards, Jan.
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where can i get these pumps from mate? %%
Steve.
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I see theres for and against all of these methods, going out the side seemed the best way at the time because it had a short route out...I will have to ponder this one...thanks again guys :-))
Steve.
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hi guys
steve hat off to you this build is really good ! im not into scale that much but this project has made me think ! hmmmm look forward to seeing it finished
mark
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Thank you mark, I believe if its worth doing its worth doing well, to me the Huntsman is sort of iconic, I would love to own the real thing, maybe my lottery will win one some day who knows.
The kit in itself I would say isn't the simplest of kits, theres much to think about and alot of adjustments here and there, the fibre glass hull isn't perfect by along away, mine had quite a bit of distortion but all went okay in the end.
I have included a link to my previous build that you might all want to see.
Hope you enjoy. :-)
https://picasaweb.google.com/107161168091837550562/LadyMarion02?authuser=0&authkey=Gv1sRgCNyE7_6PxPLngwE&feat=directlink
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Hi Steve,
I took a quick look at the pics, your Lady Marion / robbe Atlantis looks awsome!
Do you sail her often? (You should!)
Regards, Jan.
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Hello again,
thanks Lady Marion was only finished early last year, I have sailed her a few times at our club regattas but at the moment she needs some maintenance, some of her rigging lines have slipped off the sail winch so when the weathers a bit warmer I will sort her out along side a few other bits and bobs.
Thank you for your time looking.
Steve
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I have been looking at the power for the motors and the best way of keep everything neat and tidy.
I decided to build a type of raft that has two boxes mounted on it.
One box will hold the Mixer unit and the motor fuses and the other will isolate the batteries hold an inline 40amp fuse and where the batteries will be connected together in series making 24v.
The blank hole in the top of the box is where I plan on fitting a volt meter to show the state of the batteries.
I could have used telemetry with my spektrum kit but a bit much just to measure voltage.
The difference between spending 2 pounds as oppose to thirty-ish.
The one other thing I may have to add is a water cooling circuit to the mixer, I have weighed it all up and there doesn't seem to be an issue there fitting one.
Steve.
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Have to say that's a very neat setup you have there
One question... you have allowed for the drop in the superstructure? its like a tray bit at the back of the cabin and drops in between the frames
the reason I ask is I didn't and had to completely remove everything and rethink my layout
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Ah Ah....yes I thought about that, the deep structure actually sits in the next section back.
So no worries there. The motors are in the forward section, which meant fitting 14" prop shafts.
The batteries will sit along the keel line, I have glued a length of wood in place ready to take a stud that holds a clamp plate, once I have floated her I will be able to determine the best place for the batteries.
The wood will also enable me to "P" clip the battery cables in place these then enter the raft from underneath.
Steve.
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Hi Steve,
As Action only has sketchy pictures of their products, I can't really see what's in the box on your pictures, what type of ESC(s) are you going to use?
As a rule of thumb, modern designs tend to be very efficient, but if there's a cooling fin attached to it, usually there's some heat to dissipate.
I'm not comfortable with heat buildup inside a small plastic box, either make sure the electronics will never see water under normal running conditions and leave the box open, or add watercooling to the cooling fins by soldering a piece of brass tubing onto it and run the cooling loop through the ESC first, than to the motor.
Don't underestimate how much the interior will heat up, when running the boat in summer in the sun, despite the fact the boat runs in water.
Regards, Jan.
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Hi Jan
Yes I agree regarding the cooling, Im in the process of ordering parts for doing a cooling circuit, in the box is an Action P94 mixer and two P95 indicator fuse boards.
Steve
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I have now fitted everything for the trim tab servo and rudder servos. I just need to buy one more servo.
I set everything up using the same one which was a pain but it did the job,
Next job was fitting the water scoops behind the probe, don't know if anyone has noticed but these plastic water scoops don't have the same size hole all the way through making them some what restricted, a quick clear out with a drill did the job.
I just need to make some supports for the solid aluminium tube now that carries the water from the scoops.
Then I have a single flush fitting scoop to fit that supplies water to the mixer.
Thats enough to be getting on with.
Bye for now
Steve.
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Hello again to you all,
This week I have been concentratiing on getting all the additional fitting inside the hull, pieces for fixing clips to hold cooling tubes, wires etc,
Then came the long job of finally applying epoxy adhesive to everything as a final fix.
While I have been at it I made a start on scratch building the bathing platform at the stern, something I Havn't seen many modellers attempt
So maybe this may spur a few people into doing this in the future,
Its a good way of fixing the ladder at the rear, I shall make this from 3mm stainless tubing as I don't care for the one supplied in the kit, seems to be an excuse for one. anyway heres a few pics of my progress to date.
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Battery Query,
A quick question to you all, I need help working out the charging time for a battery,
The outputs on my charger are as follows.
Output 3: 1000 mA, 4 - 8 NC/NiMH with Delta-Peak automatic cut-off.
Output 4: 250 mA, 4 - 8 NC/NiMH
Output 5: 250 mA, 4 - 8 NC/NiMH
Output 6: 120 mA, 4 - 8 NC/NiMH
I have a 12v 4600mah battery so which output do I need to use and for how long?
Thank you for any help.
Steve.
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Battery Query,
A quick question to you all, I need help working out the charging time for a battery,
The outputs on my charger are as follows.
Output 3: 1000 mA, 4 - 8 NC/NiMH with Delta-Peak automatic cut-off.
Output 4: 250 mA, 4 - 8 NC/NiMH
Output 5: 250 mA, 4 - 8 NC/NiMH
Output 6: 120 mA, 4 - 8 NC/NiMH
I have a 12v 4600mah battery so which output do I need to use and for how long?
Thank you for any help.
Steve.
I'm sorry to say if its a nicd/nimh pack then none of them.... your battery pack has 10 cells and the charger has a max of 8 (9.6v)
If its a Lead acid battery (like a mini car battery) then again the answer is no as a lead acid charger is required (tho you could use a domestic car battery charger)
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news
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Thanks for that I see now, ah well time to put this one to auction and invest in one thats adequate, any recommendations?
And how do you work out the charge time?
Cheers
Steve.
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The Imax B6 is a very capable charger, and will handle most of your charging needs, even lipos should you go down that route.
Charging wise, you battery at 4600mah would take roughly 4.6Hrs at a charging rate of 1amp 2.3 hrs at 2A
The B6 can charge at up to 5A so you could charge at 4.6A and get it done in an hour.
The B6 can also cycle discharge your battery packs and lots of other thingsand can be picked up on ebay for about 15-20 quid. It's basically all the chargers you need in on handy package
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the B6 is a very versatile and cost effective charger, I have one,however you may have to get a mains power source as mine didnt have one, and then you are relying on another battery to run it. get a version with a built in main adapter, this charger will accomodate nimhs, nicad, pb, and lipo, with a balance port for lipo, there are a number of cheap chinese clones out there so ensure its genuine with a warranty
With my Hunts, I went for the back seat and ladder version, (there are so many! some have the transom opening!) I thought about the platform as a form of stabiliser, and will probably do it when the boat gets a refurb later this year as its single screw and does have torque roll after 23mph, so I am very interested to see how your trim tabs perform! :-))
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She looks great mate, I have seen her before and admired her. you did a cracking job.
I have some sort of power running through now, did a bit of wiring yesterday, still have to sort out the control cable that runs from the receiver to the mixer, this week I will sort out the cooling for the mixer cooling fins.
Regarding the trim tabs I have had them working but both going up and down together, Im not sure if it would be an advantage for them to work separately. I need to decide on this before the deck is fixed into position.
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That is a mighty neat build, makes me want to tear all mine out and start again!
What is the digital display showing?
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Oh its showing the voltage to the mixer, hence 23.6 volts, inside the black box is where the two batteries are connected together in series.
then from the switch it goes through a 40amp fuse its there where the voltage is taken, from that point the power splits into two and feeds the mixer.
From the bottom of the box with the mixer in is a 9 core cable taking the power and signals from the receiver and the return to the rudder servo from the mixer. In theory it should all work, but we shall see. %)
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Hi Steve,
Regarding a 'new' charger; if you're going to run the boat on 20 cells wired in series, it is good practice to charge the cells in the same configuration as you use them, aka in series.
This avoids nasty rapid equalisation rushes between the packs when you connect them. Make no mistake, even with NiMH packs you can arch-weld...
This requires another charger as the Imax B6, as this charger only handles up to 15 cells NiMH.
If you're not planning on changing to Lipo's (which you no doubt will after the first runs on NiMH...), I'd search eBay for a charger like the Graupner Ultra Duo Plus 30, which can handle up to 30 NiMH cells with a charge current up to 7A.
This and similar chargers are being sold relative cheap, as they can't charge Lipo's as well as the new generation chargers.
There are a few on the German eBay: at the moment
http://www.ebay.de/itm/Ladegerat-Graupner-Ultra-Duo-Plus-30-/170984945545?pt=RC_Modellbau&hash=item27cf7f3789 (http://www.ebay.de/itm/Ladegerat-Graupner-Ultra-Duo-Plus-30-/170984945545?pt=RC_Modellbau&hash=item27cf7f3789)
You'll need a mains supply of 12V 15A minimum.
As I've mentioned before, please change the Tamiya connectors for something able to handle the current, like Ø4 mm gold plated connectors.
While the Tamiya do smell nice when the plastic melts when the connectors overheat, the possible shorting and burning following immediately is less pleaseant...
The picture doesn't show how high the swimming platform is above the bottom; if it sits too deep, it'll act as a (huge) trimtab, rendering your fancy controlable ones inert.
With two motors you'll not experience torque roll, so operating them simultaneously isn't an issue.
Testing will show the waterinlets are set rather (too) deep and will add considerable drag, specially if you pick up debris.
The intake may also be a little overdone.
Regards, Jan.
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Hiya, thank you for the info, yes I was unsure of how deep the water inlets should be, theres still time for adjustment.
The Tamiya plugs are just temporary until I find the best position for the batteries, I have EC5's ready for fitting.
The platform sits flush with the bottom in fact it will just look like a continuation of the hull when finished.
The batteries are connected in series further along the line, I was just thinking of disconnecting each battery and charging it.
So its okay to charge them connected in series??
Thanks once again for your comments and help.
Steve. :-))
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Stave never had a problem in all the years I have used stick packs in charging them individually,I allways DO.I NEVER charge mine in series or even Parallel.
One question I must ask is what Amperage is your switch.
Dave
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Hiya Dave, I will bear that in mind thanks , I believe the switch is 40 or 50 amp rating.
should be okay eh?
Steve.
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Hi Steve & Dave,
I didn't say it was mandatory to charge your packs as they are being used, just that it's good practice...
When charged seperately, there will come a time when the charge levels of both packs start to drift apart, and when the difference gets big enough the equalisation rush will cause fireworks when connecting them.
When I was racing the big electric powered fast electrics, I always charged my packs as they were used and never had a failure.
Charging them apart is a potential risk.
Regards, Jan.
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After delving further I have found that the switch is rated at 16amp, will this cope or do I have to go into relays etc to switch the main power on and off?
Its okay Jan, this is what the forum is all about, getting everyones experiences together to help those who are lesser experienced
I appreciate everyones ideas, and hopefully some people will like my mine.
Im just a beginner by a long chalk compared to some of the veterans of boat modelling
But I do enjoy listening to everyones experiences, its what makes this forum so great....I do hope I get a gold star for this. :-))
Regards
Steve.
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MMMMM I must admit I NEVER use a switch on voltages above 7.2v as I have had switches blowing in the past.I allways use XT60 plugs from component shop.TBH with you if you are going to use a switch then I would use a constant Amperage Realy of around 40Amps ...just to be on the safe side................Personally I WOULDNT BOTHER
Dave
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Same here, cutting the power is done simply by disconnecting the battery by pulling the Ø4 mm plug.
Or if it's a competition boat, by removing the mandatory emergency cut off cable.
Regards, Jan.
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Yes fair dues, I see your point chaps, I think I will omit the switch, I have plenty of lids for the boxes so its no problem.
Thanks for that.
Steve.
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Hello again everyone, as you have read from my build log I am using two 900 motors running on 24volts, if I have gone down the route of brushless motors and lipos what would have been their equivalent? Im just curious for the future..plus when I have some spare pennies.
I would expect theres alot of people like me that don't have much experience in these fields.
Thanks
Steve.
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Hi Steve, it would be interesting to see if anybody has any factual data on the 900 motors, rather than "they go fast" etc, it would make comparisons easier to brushless.
As you know, I have single screw 880kv scorpion brushless and achieve 24mph, with a 1.14;1 ratio with a propshop 3 blade cleaver equivalent to x55 in terms of amp draw, which peaks at just over 80amps ( :embarrassed: )
Later this year, time permitting, I will convert to twin brushless, and will use 880kv turnigy t600 outrunners on direct drive. If you have a look at my Fireboat build http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=39278.0 (http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=39278.0) you will see in that boat the setup, with cheaper inferior motors. The turnigy produced excellent results as single screw in the huntsman, and they are not very expensive, you just need two esc's that can handle the amps, in the fireboat its under 50amps, you will see results in my Huntsman build, hope that helps :-))
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Hi red181 I have done back to back comparrisons on the huntsman with a friend of Mine who has a huntsman with a pair of 900 motos on 55mm props direct drive running 22v lipos and a Huntsman single prop 800kva Turnigy motor Robbie speed controller 70a( I think) 55mm prop This was also direct drive.
We ran both boats alongside each other and to be perfectly honest with you there was not much in it,Mine with the brushless had the edje slightly over the 900 motor one and we put it down to the extra 1600 rpm that the Brushless had.The twin Motored Huntsman was better on a flat out turn far more stable than a single one.
I will run up a 900 motor and give you a rpm at 12v and 24 v and the current draw in AIR so you got something to go on if it helps
Dave
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good info Dave, is the 900 heavy, it looks a big thing, the advantage of brushed I would think is that esc's are much cheaper and repairable, personally, I prefer brushless, lipo etc, probably due to the fact I have helicopters so have had quite a bit of experience with them, and I own a load of lipos! but....... as you cant drain them flat, sometimes its frustrating having to pack up when you just want that extra few minutes!
Would liked to have seen that comparison, not only for the motors, but the difference between single amd twin screw, I wonder if there is much difference or is it more cosmetic, very interesting.......
Paul
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ill weigh them tomorrow if I get the chance as I got another turnigy spare I personally think they are about the same not a lot in it.
It was an interesting comparrison and to be fair I was really surprised as I expected the twin motored one to be quicker But when you think about it logically or even not a hull will only achieve a max speed irrelevant of how many motors it has,due to it's coeffiecient of whatever ...YOU know what I mean .
The speed controllers that I use for the 900 are form ACTion and they are the 30Amp ones and they are £57 ea
Dave
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I would love to see this if you do it again, sorry to hijack the thread!, with single screw I cant get more than 24.5mph as the boat then is too unstable, the increased prop size wants to turn the boat over, I was wondering if twin would let me go faster, and more importantyly more efficiently, less amps and a tad longer :} , I dont have trim tabs didnt really want them, it has torque roll at that speed, but goes a bit of a handful if you hit a wave a bit wrong!, (very tight clenched bum cheeks!)
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Cant see it happening as she is for sale on ebay....TBH couldnt handle her far to unstable for MY liking tourque roll etc etc tec I know what yoou mena by clenched etc etc etc
Dave
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Bit fed up tonight, I tried my motors for the first time and Im sorry to say the Action P94 isn't up to the job my batteries wasn't even fully charged only giving out 21.5 volts, soon as I cranked the power up they ran up for a few seconds and then hardly anything.
The circuit board wasn't hot at all so nothing burnt out.
So now its back to the drawing board and choose another Esc, any ideas anyone?
Steve.
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Hi Steve,
Please charge the batteries completely and test again, barely 1,V per cell isn't much, it's close to fully depleted...
Experimenting like this could damage the cells beyond recovery.
A NiMh cell fresh (and warm) from the charger should have 1,4V, dropping down to 1,2V once the motores have ran for a few seconds.
Without sufficient juice, you can't blame the ESC...
And the crappy Tamiya connectors don't help either, or did you replace those already?
Regards, Jan.
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+1 on the connectors, I personally would not touch tamiya, rated at something like 5 amps and you are pushing way over that through them, and very little contact surface, I use 5mm gold sprung bullets, they are never coming loose! for a couple of quid why after all this work are you risking fire and /or disconnecting tamiya blocks
If you are ever up the Wirral area, or my club lake, st helens merseyside, give me a shout, you can try some lipos in your boat :-))
Hate to say this, but are the motors new? some time ago there where some copy 900's floating around ebay that where not up to scratch, and how new are you packs? they might want a few cycles through them. I race club 500, they have controlled 7.4 nimh packs, I discharge fully with a test light, then charge again with my balance charger, I can see how many mah are going back in the packs, If I charge on a sat night fully, then recharge on the sunday morning they take another 500mah, so after only 9 hrs thats the capacity they have lost, hope that is useful! ok2
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Thanks guys, I will get the batteries fully charged and try again, all connectors are now EC5"s
Batteries are brand new, maybe it is the batteries low on charge, it seemed strange as the mixer was not hot at all and no tell tale smells
of anything melted.
What other ESC's could I use? if using two units how are they connected so they run together off of one stick?
Catch you all later hopefully with good news.
Steve.
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Success!!! Batteries fully charged with iMax B6 charger, put back in the boat and run up, smooth start and great acceleration.
Mixer working fine now, Phew !!! I had thoughts of buying replacements.
All good now, on with the build.
That is in between maintaing my Robbe Atlantis, a few jobs to do there.
Steve.
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I have seen some of you quoting how fast your boats go, but how exactly do you measure it?
Mines all painted inside now, getting ready for sticking the deck down.
%%
Steve
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I luckily have eagle tree data logging, with rpm and gps add ons, so I can measure gps speed, motor revs and with an lcd display get mah, volts, amps, and some more.Some sort of amp reader is vital to protect your motors and esc's whilst testing , I got one from 4max for 15 quid, it just goes in line and will record your max mah amd amp
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Mixer working fine now, Phew !!! I had thoughts of buying replacements.
Steve.
O ye of little faith...................
DM
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Does anyone know where I can buy some nice chromed fittings for my Huntsman?
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Hi Steve, sorry but I always seem to be jumping in, only because I have been through all your problems! :}
Genuine chrome fittings are all but impossible to find, I tried for months and months, the next best alternative is nickel plated, good quality ones are a very good compromise.
There are plastic alternatives, but I thought they looked cheap, and all the so called chrome paint is just bright silver, with the exception of alclad, very expensive, but does what it says on the tin!
My winch is a graupner nickel plated, the deck hooks are chrome plated from scoonies hobbies, the big find were the cleats, aeronaught chrome plated (could be spelt wrong), the front chrome bumper, the chrome plates for mooring ropes, and the corners of the transom are all chrome sticky back plastic, mounted on thin plasticard, the chrome rivets are dressmakers pins, the vents I vac formed myself (all details and pics in my huntsman build log), chrome window frames I settled for humbrol aluminium paint, and buffed it up, thinking bright chrome might look tacky, however, on the refit I will paint with alclad chrome paint like the vents, grab rails and posts are stainless steel, most model train peeps have these, I cant remember my source, the chrome front fender Steve at Scale Hobbies in skelmersdale had custom made for me, and after all that, I sailed in salt water and tarnished the lot >:-o !!
Paul
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Hello again, don't apologise ever, I value everyones tips, tricks and ideas.
Thank you for your help, I know when I had my railings chrome plated on my Atlantis it was a seventy quid touch.
Its just knowing where to look for the right stuff, I want to make my Huntsman stand out so if anything comes to mind just let me know.
Thanks once again.
Steve.
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Today I am doing a bit of experimenting, a while ago I came across a black epoxy adhesive which has a consistency of black treacle when mixed and sets in 24 hours at room temperature.
Im using walnut strip for my decking and I have made a test piece with a 1mm and 2mm gap.
I then worked the adhesive into the gaps and now its drying, hopefully it will sand back and leave a perfect caulked finish.
I had concernes that it would stain the wood but so far so good and its looking pretty promising. The adhesive sells for around a fiver a packet, its basically an electrical potting compound, heres some pictures.
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Tomorrow I will attempt to sand it back and show you the results.....fingers crossed :-))
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Well as they say " The results are in" All sanded back and a wipe of white spirits to clean the dust off.
Only down side is my sander decided to burn out.
But on the whole well pleased with the results.
So now to get my deck done, well when I get back from the States that is, in a weeks time, work has got in the way yet again.
Spose the bills need to be paid at the end of the day.
Anyway see what you think.
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I recon that's precision to the N'th degree. :}
Ken
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Hi Steve,
That looks very promising indeed!
Could you elaborate on the 'black epoxy adhesive' you used?
Regards, Jan.
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Here is the link to the stuff I used.
http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/potting-compounds/1991402/?origin=PSF_435902|cav
Cheers
Steve.
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Thanks Steve,
It looks like to be standard epoxy with black pigment added, cleverly packed in a mixing pouch.
If you have access to black toner (from a printer), mixing that with regular clear epoxy resin (prior to adding the hardener), will give similar results, but gives you the advantage of being able to mix the amount you'll need, instead of what the manufacturer prepared for you...
Regards, Jan.
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Really looks the part Steve :-))
Dave
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Today I made a start on planking my deck, I have used 1mm Thick x 7mm wide walnut strip.
Hasn't gone to badly so far and pleased with todays results.
Steve.
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A little more progress so far this week, I want to try and reproduce the deck more or less as the real thing, a bit more of a challenge
but well worth the effort.
Steve.
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That's going to look amazingly well!
Keep up the good work.
Regards, Jan.
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A little bit more done today, although a trip to Coalville broke the day up and was very interesting to see what else is out there.
Plus It was nice to meet Mr Milbourne and put a face to the name after having conversations and emails seeking his advice about his products.
Thats all for now folks
Steve.
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Looking okay so far.
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Deserves a little more than "Okay" I think steve! O0 Looking the bizz - well done. With such a variety of adhesives available, a question I always seem to ask about planking is 'what glue did you use'? Just a collection of info for my armoury.
Regards, Tony.
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Thanks for the comments, it makes the doing more worth the while.
I just used professional quality thin cyanoacrylate, then I will use black epoxy for the caulking as i experimented with earlier in the post.
Im trying to get the deck as near to the real thing as possible, so fingers crossed all will turn out okay.
Yet again thank you.
Steve.
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Cheers Steve, reason I asked re glue is that I've just had a go at my first wooden boat and although it came with pre-marked deck planking in sheet form, they didn't line up well at the joints so it was an opportunity to have my first go at planking. I used 0.5mm Mahogany veneer (donated by a good friend) razor cut to width and I too used superglue but was both unlucky and not careful enough I think as it bled through and cappillaried at some of the the ends and in some other places which darkened the planks dramatically, sanding would not rectify - clumsy glued fingers didn't help either though to be honest! O0 {-) {-) . Recently been given a good tip by a cracking modeller Stan Reffin, he uses De-luxe materials r/c modellers glue, a little like thin pva apparently but glues well, dries clear and doesn't stain.
Anyway will be lurking in the background so please keep posting, Regards, Tony. :-))
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Well feel free to lurk as often as you need, maybe the veneer you used was a little thin, I use a minimum of 1mm thick it has a good sanding allowance. I have used Aliphatic wood glue for most of the build but I noticed when I started planking it didn't lie as flat to the surface.
I enjoy passing on my experiences along the way, this site is so valuable for help and theres a wealth of experience out there.
Anyway thanks again for the interest.
Steve.
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Well its been quite a nightmare these past two weeks, I ran out of wood to plank my deck. BIG LESSON LEARNT!!!!
However after alot of experimenting I think I have found away around it by careful staining.
The pictures show different stages which I had to do to prove I could match everything together without ripping it all off and starting again.
Hopefully all will be alright in the end.
Steve.
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Another picture of my efforts, all at different stages.
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A bit more cleaning up done today :-)
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Love the image 1319 Steve, cracking job - well done you :-))
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Thanks I have been quite concerned as when I ordered more wood it was a totally different colour at first but I think I have managed to blend it all in, its the unfinished part which is the new wood. In future I will make sure I have more than enough wood to complete the whole deck.
Now that I have an indication that I have cracked it I can move on and complete the decking.
Thanks for the encouraging remarks.
Steve
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I thought I would take a break for a while, I felt as though I was doing too much too quickly and ending up being disappointed with the results.
So time to step back.
As its my club regatta next weekend I have been preparing my Atlantis AKA Lady Marion for a days sailing, my twelve year old daughter has been showing an interest also.
So this year so that she can get involved we have built a little Club 500 between us.
Its nice to think theres new blood coming into the hobby.
Will be back on the Huntsman soon watch this space! :-))
Steve.
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Fair play, doing a FANTASTIC job of creating an excellent replica of the real boat. :-))
I've always loved Fairey boats. My Uncle had a Huntsman 31 with aft cabin like your model and a Super Swordsman 33 after that. They are such a classy looking boat.
I have a Precedent Huntsman model, but I want to convert it from aft cabin to aft cockpit instead, as I prefer the shape.
Anyway, keep up the excellent quality work/build and really can't wait to see the end product.
Will
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Hello again all, sorry I have not been on here for a while, alot of heavy work commitments has meant that the build has to go on hold all of this time.
I have not been too happy with my deck planking, remember I had run out of wood and could not match it up.
I think I am going to re-do it all this time with more than enough wood,
My question is what is the nearest wood I would get to teak? without someone saying TEAK.
From what I see no one does it and was wondering whats the next best match?
Thanks for any info.
Steve.
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(http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff100/pmdevlin/fullcockpit.jpg) (http://s238.photobucket.com/user/pmdevlin/media/fullcockpit.jpg.html)
Hi Steve, this is one of the pictures that I tried to replicate, I have replied to your pm, see how weathered it is, almost grey in colour, and on the Fairey website most look like this, I tried a off white wash before the ronseal mentioned in the pm, but the grey caulking went white which lost all the effort of the caulking, so I rubbed down and ended up doing it as in the pm,
Paul
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Hello all and a happy New Year :-))
Its been along time since I have been on here due to other commitments. However the Huntsman is still coming together gradually.
I have a question or more curiosity. I am not up on these new type of brushless motors but I hope to use them in the future.
Can anyone tell me what would be the equivalent of a 900 brushed motor in brushless terms and what sort of batteries would be needed.
And what controls them, at the moment I am using two 900 motors running on 24 volts via an Action 97 mixer.
What would I need to convert this to brushless?
Thanks for any advice given.
Steve.
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Hi Steve,
Basically you need everything to be able to run a brushless equivalent of the 900 motors.
I'm guessing the 24V comes from SLA batteries, which are not very good at delivering high current for a longer period of time...
If the 24V come from quality NiMH cellpacks (20-24 cells per motor), you could use those, until you can afford lipo's.
I'd recommend two of these:
http://www.ebay.de/itm/D2VN-New-Aeolian-C4250-06-KV800-Outrunner-Brushless-Motor-for-RC-Airplane-Aircra-/131015174601?pt=RC_Modellbau&hash=item1e811ce9c9 (http://www.ebay.de/itm/D2VN-New-Aeolian-C4250-06-KV800-Outrunner-Brushless-Motor-for-RC-Airplane-Aircra-/131015174601?pt=RC_Modellbau&hash=item1e811ce9c9)
I'm running one of these in my MAS (110 cm 3-4Kg) on 4S lipo (14,8V, two packs in parallel for long runtimes) turning a Ø60 mm two blade prop with coarse pitch.
To get an idea of the speed, see this video, made last summer on the river Weser in Germany:
Turn up the sound (really) high to hear the running noise:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-igDcvLySEM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-igDcvLySEM)
Currently I'm using this ESC:
http://www.himodel.com/electric/HiModel_ICE_100A_2-6S_Water-cooled_Brushless_Navy_ESC_ICE-100A.html (http://www.himodel.com/electric/HiModel_ICE_100A_2-6S_Water-cooled_Brushless_Navy_ESC_ICE-100A.html)
This ESC works flawless in my single motor application, but getting two to sync needs two receiver channels and a computer transmitter with elaborate mixer options, according to my buddy, who runs two of these ESC's in his boat.
If your Action 97 mixer can handle two brushless ESC's that should work too, but you need two ESC's with identical neutral points to get them to work.
I chose the ICE ESC because I'm using them in my fast electrics and the price is reasonable.
There are not many alternatives in this price segment that have reverse, Graupner has a few, but these are currently out of stock:
http://www.graupner.de/de/products/fe157a63-1203-43c8-866d-64197ac67366/7258/product.aspx (http://www.graupner.de/de/products/fe157a63-1203-43c8-866d-64197ac67366/7258/product.aspx)
With the two 4800mAh (budget) Lipo's wired in parallel, mixed running, meaning 80% at a brisk walking pace, with the occasional 200m speed run, gives me more than two hours of continuous running, the average ampdraw is 4,5A/h
Let me know if you need more info.
Regards, Jan.
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I have two reversing water cooled budget turnigy 60amp esc's in my 4 foot fireboat. I didn't think you could run two brushless motors with one esc, fiddly to manually set up, but once you have done it a few times they are fine. I had to disconnect one of the bec wires so only one signal via a "y" lead to receiver, and made to switch on via an inline switch to ensure rx armed before the esc's, that took some figuring out why the esc's kept losing their programming, they were arming too quick