Model Boat Mayhem

Mess Deck: General Section => Chit-Chat => Topic started by: Bryan Young on January 10, 2013, 01:10:01 PM

Title: Magnifiers.
Post by: Bryan Young on January 10, 2013, 01:10:01 PM
Some advice requested here…
I’m now at the stage where I need some sort of magnifier to allow “work” to continue.
As far as I’m aware these fall into 2 categories. The “Anglepoise type and the sort that straps to ones head.I’m sure many Mayhemmers use such devices so I’d appreciate some comments about the pros and cons of each type, and (if possible) the “best buy”. Thanks in advance. BY.
Title: Re: Magnifiers.
Post by: barriew on January 10, 2013, 01:15:14 PM
Bryan


I 'took over' from my wife an anglepoise type with a daylight bulb. She bought it for embroidery but doesn't use it. I have used it a couple of times but find that getting the distances right is not always easy. That is head to magnifier and magnifier to work piece distance.


Barrie
Title: Re: Magnifiers.
Post by: essex2visuvesi on January 10, 2013, 01:20:55 PM
Both have their advantages and disadvantages, I have the anglepoise type as I tried the "goggle" type and found them to be uncomfortable and gave me headaches.


The Angle poise types are better, but some times its not possible to get the magnifier bit exactly where you need it
Title: Re: Magnifiers.
Post by: tigertiger on January 10, 2013, 01:28:22 PM
I have a table lamp style. With a ring light built in.
It has two lenses. A main lens, of about 3x magnification, and a very small lens (x10) ground into the larger lens. I have found both useful. By moving my head around the lens, rather than trying to position the lens, I can do all that I need to.
You can also sit back when you need to without the world going out of focus, and feeling dizzy. As would happen with specs.

I also found a third hand helped. One of those little stands with crock clips, and locking forceps also help a lot. That way I have a hand free to steady myself and manipulate the lens.

The lamp styles should have a lens cover. I read somewhere that there is a fire risk if you leave them sitting in the window on a sunny day, with not cover.
Title: Re: Magnifiers.
Post by: gribeauval on January 10, 2013, 01:34:31 PM
I have an an illuminated angle poise type that I don't use any more since I found 'reading' glasses on sale in the local the Pound Shops!!
They come in magnifications from x1 to x4 in x1/2 steps and are much more convenient to use. I have several pairs dotted about the workshop in several magnifications and find them invaluable. When they get to scratched, paint on or broken no problem, just buy a new pair.


Mike
Title: Re: Magnifiers.
Post by: essex2visuvesi on January 10, 2013, 01:42:03 PM

The lamp styles should have a lens cover. I read somewhere that there is a fire risk if you leave them sitting in the window on a sunny day, with not cover.


I have to admit I laughed when I read that warning in the instructions, but on reflection its a valid concern


I think to be honest its horses for courses and what you feel is most comfortable for you


As for the visor things I had an optivisor, while very good, just wasn't for me
Title: Re: Magnifiers.
Post by: sailorboy61 on January 10, 2013, 02:54:16 PM
Agree with Barry,
 
I find mine very useful, but fiddling with distances does take a bit of getting used to!
 
Bryan


I 'took over' from my wife an anglepoise type with a daylight bulb. She bought it for embroidery but doesn't use it. I have used it a couple of times but find that getting the distances right is not always easy. That is head to magnifier and magnifier to work piece distance.


Barrie
Title: Re: Magnifiers.
Post by: Norseman on January 10, 2013, 03:24:59 PM
Hi Bryan
One size doesn't fit all. I have an angle poise Led with X3 mag £40 that is great for the bench once the beeping thing is set up. I also have a cracking rechargeable headlamp with focusable light and variable intensity for the awkward stuff where you need to move your head a lot. Next visit to the opticians I am going to get some glasses specifically for modeling and set to a closer focus. That way the headlamp will be even better. On reflection I use the headlamp most.
I also need to improve the general lighting in my shed.

Dave ... On a bus, trying to type on a phone  %%
Title: Re: Magnifiers.
Post by: Netleyned on January 10, 2013, 03:31:19 PM
Hope its not the company iphone :D

Ned on a boat using my own phone :-))

Title: Re: Magnifiers.
Post by: Martin [Admin] on January 10, 2013, 03:38:35 PM
 
I now need glasses to read and I use the off the shelf ones 'ready readers' the supermarket.
I found you can buy up to +3.5 which are very strong! 
 
Glasses are very light to wear, unintrusive & cheapish...
Title: Re: Magnifiers.
Post by: NFMike on January 10, 2013, 04:27:43 PM
I can't get on with magnifiers either. Like Martin I have some cheap reading glasses that do nicely. I find 2.5 or 3 about right. Take a sample of your work with you when you go shopping for them so you get a proper idea.
Title: Re: Magnifiers.
Post by: Bryan Young on January 10, 2013, 04:55:52 PM
So far, so good.
Did I mention that I have ARMD in one eye? That means I have very little binocular vision.
Looking at some of the web-sites I see stuff ranging from around £20 to well over £1,000!
The really big problem is trying to find a place where I can try some of these offerings. I'd feel a bit miffed if I bought something from an advertising blurb only to find it totally unsuitable.
I can understand the "dizziness" effect that can occur with the head-mounted things, but some have "flip-up" lenses....doesn't the use of these make dizziness less likely?
Also, many of the offerings (cheap to expensive) crow about the LED "white" lights. All the so-called "white" ones I've seen are really more blue than white.
Still confused! Please keep up the comments....good or bad. Thanks a lot. BY.
Title: Re: Magnifiers.
Post by: barriew on January 10, 2013, 05:08:35 PM
Bryan,


The blue bulbs are to correct the naturally rather warm tones of an incandescent bulb. I don't think they give the object a blue tone, just a more accurate representation of daylight. Some white LEDs are OK, some are very blue. I believe you can get them in tones ranging from warm white to blue white.


Barrie
Title: Re: Magnifiers.
Post by: tigertiger on January 10, 2013, 05:11:06 PM
I think the colour of light is a bit of an irrelevance. The range of light we work in everyday, without our brain noticing,  is pretty varied. As long as you are not working in shadow.


The cheapest ones that look like a table lamp and have a swan neck that bends have only one potential flaw. If the base is too small, they can be top heavy and fall over when fully bent over. Others are OK, but anglepoise may be better. Some angle poise have a base, others screw to a shelf.


LED can use less energy, but if they cost a grand???


Most on Amazon are under 50 quid. Looking at most of those at the upper end should do the job.
There is even a 3-in-1. Floor stand/table stand/table clamp for under 50.
Title: Re: Magnifiers.
Post by: Stavros on January 10, 2013, 05:44:00 PM
Gentlemen may I please PLEAD with you to go to a QUALIFIED OPTICIAN and NOT self diagnose in the local supermarket.
 
You only have ONE PAIR OF EYES....if you feel the need to use a set of supermarket glasses then you will not doubt need PROPER PRESPICTION glasses.....OH also you might THINK you just need them for reading....How about DRIVING.
 
I have a problem with work regarding welding and when I questioned my Optician about a different pair he was able to mask eme some up for the distances involved.....If he had said No then I would have flipped....why may you ask..........
 
 
WELL FATHER WAS AN OPTICIAN............SO TAKE IT FROM ME GO AND GET YOU EYES TESTED
 
 
 
 
Dave
Title: Re: Magnifiers.
Post by: Netleyned on January 10, 2013, 06:00:54 PM
Totally agree Dave
Getting a pair of high power pouns shop glasses
with cheap distorted lenses will in time get your
eye muscles used to working that way
Talk to an optician about what the problem is and
take hia advice
Pound shop glasses <*

Ned
Title: Re: Magnifiers.
Post by: grendel on January 10, 2013, 06:11:16 PM
I have 3 pairs of glasses, a pair for normal use / driving, a pair for reading and a third pair between the two for vdu work (computers) these I can just about watch tv with too so sat at home they are my everyday glasses.
if I need to do close (really tiny detailed) work I wear my reading glasses over my vdu or outdoor glasses, this brings the work to about 3" from my eyes in microscopic detail (with the added bonus that it corrects for each eye separately (my two eyes are nearly 2 dioptres different), but it does the job.
but I agree do get a test from an optition (it may be that once you get a prescription you can fill it from the rack of reading glasses - but if you have any astigmatisms which need correcting you will need an optician to build in the corrections.
Grendel
Title: Re: Magnifiers.
Post by: guitar man on January 10, 2013, 06:17:13 PM
sorry to take it off topic but I also agree with Dave I went to the optician as I was having trouble reading my work instruments they gave me a simple prescrition but more importantly they found a problem with pressures which I may never Have known about unltill it was much more serious glad to say that a simple op, all is now well, a check up is so worth it


 Kind regards Tony
Title: Re: Magnifiers.
Post by: NFMike on January 10, 2013, 06:57:57 PM
Dave, the suggestion of glasses it's not meant as a sub for prescription glasses. These are effectively just a pair of magnifying lenses in a frame - it's no different in principle from using a magnifier on a stalk, just a darned sight more convenient.

But yes most people 'our' age should get an eye test regardless.
Title: Re: Magnifiers.
Post by: Stavros on January 10, 2013, 08:16:26 PM
Dave, the suggestion of glasses it's not meant as a sub for prescription glasses. These are effectively just a pair of magnifying lenses in a frame - it's no different in principle from using a magnifier on a stalk, just a darned sight more convenient.

But yes most people 'our' age should get an eye test regardless.

SORRY but you are SO SO WRONG in what you are saying,these are proper glasses not magnifing ones,a Magnifier that you buy varies in focal length for differnt people,what I mean here is that the distance of foccusing for you is differnt to eg Martin.
 
Now the glasses that are for sale in supermarkets etc etc as someone has allready pointed out have no diopters in them,some people need prisms,each eye is different from person to person.Each eye can differ immensly,some have long vision others have short sight.Some people have a clear lens one side and prescription on the other.
 
How can you tell if you have a cataract,glucoma etc etc etc
 
So with this in mind how can you SAFELY say by going to a supermarket and choosing a pair of glasses they are RIGHT for you.........WELL YOU CAN NOT.
 
If it was as simple as that well every Optician in the country would have to close..............................
 
End of sermon and biology lesson
 
 
Dave
 
 
Title: Re: Magnifiers.
Post by: malcolmfrary on January 10, 2013, 08:23:25 PM
If anybody finds that an extra lens helps, a visit to the optician really is a good idea, if only because, as Grendel said, your eyes dont degrade at the same rate, so its quite possible to need different lenses for the different corrections needed.
As to the Anglepoise magnifier needing a cover - yes, very definitely.  Someone once left an uncovered one near a window and scorched a big mark in his workbench when the sun came round later in the day.  Thankfully, not me.
Title: Re: Magnifiers.
Post by: Norseman on January 10, 2013, 09:25:17 PM
I had already decided to get prescription ones for comfort really. I am we'll aware of my eyes and problems already. Now if I was only going to pop these on for a few minutes then off the shelf would be ok (eyes already well tested) but any longer than that then you are going to be straining one eye and headaches will follow.

Dave
Title: Re: Magnifiers.
Post by: Bob K on January 10, 2013, 10:02:30 PM
In my youth my eyesight was perfect for fine detail model making, but I needed glasses for distance.  Strange now that my eyes have altered so that I do not need glasses for driving etc but that kind of close up fine work is impossible.   Supermarket 3.5x magnifiers are good for threading rigging and detailing.  I do not intend to enrich opticians with hefty sums to make up special ultra close up glasses.  ie:  a focal distance of three inches.

I have an anglepoise magnifying lamp, its main use is to apply extra light to a local area and for inspection. 

For very fine detail painting there is unfortunately no real substitute foe excellent close up natural vision and a very steady hand, both which I miss greatly.
Title: Re: Magnifiers.
Post by: davidm1945 on January 10, 2013, 10:21:39 PM
Hi All,   
   
 I have tried magnifiers, both the one that hangs around your neck and the one on a stand, but found them very restrictive in use.
 I decided to ask my optician about "model making" glasses and now have a pair that focus at about 1 foot from my eyes. 
 The glasses have transformed my hobby - no more headaches or eyestrain and I can see the fine detail better than ever.
 Absolutely wonderful and highly recommended.

  Dave.
Title: Re: Magnifiers.
Post by: Colin Bishop on January 10, 2013, 10:23:27 PM
Just picked up on this topic and I agree 100% with Dave (Stavros). You need to get your eyes sorted out with an optician BEFORE you start looking at magnifiers. As people get older, their eyesight commonly deteriorates but they are often not immediately aware of it as their brain will compensate to some extent. Unfortunately, many eyesight defects cannot be cured as such but often the condition can be stabilised. An eye test will not just test your eyesight but will also identify other conditions that may not be immediately apparent such as glaucoma. So definitely go to Specsavers!
 
I have glaucoma which runs in the family and which has affected vision in one of my eyes. It is caused by pressure building up in the eyeball which irretrievably damages the optic receptors at the back of the eye. However, it can be controlled by eyedrops which reduce the pressure and that is a small price to pay for retaining your eyesight. In the last year I have also had two cataract procedures, one eye was deteriorating quite rapidly, the other less so. The cataracts alter the focus of your eyes and restrict the amount of light getting in. Most people over 60 suffer from them to some extent. It is quite amazing just how much difference the implants have made. Everything is brighter and colours more vivid and my optician has said that with my new pair of glasses (which you have to leave until about 6 weeks after the op), my vision should be better than 20/20 which is a result by any standards. At the moment I'm getting by quite well with an old pair of glasses around 10 years old which just demonstrates what an improvement has been made. Many people don't like going to opticians and leave things too late in some cases. Very often people, especially women, refuse to wear glasses for reasons of vanity - this is a seriously stupid attitude, especially if you drive a car. Nobody else cares if you wear glasses because it is so common but people seem to think it is a big thing when it's nothing of the kind. And then there are options for contact lenses or laser treatment which can avoid the need to wear specs - but only if you have your eyes checked out first.
 
There is a lot that can be done to stabilise or remedy eye defects - but the longer you leave it the less successful it will be.
 
Colin
Title: Re: Magnifiers.
Post by: RAAArtyGunner on January 10, 2013, 11:23:50 PM
Couldn't agree more with Dave (Stavros) etc, about getting your eyes tested and getting glasses, makes a HUGE difference, then get magnifiers.
 
But hey, they are your eyes, so up to you....
 
I use both types of magnifiers but, to supplement my glasses.
 
Our hobby is such that both types of magnifiers will be useful, namely, a stand type and headband.
 
For me, I use 'extra' illumination which makes for better visibilty, in turn making difficult taskes easier to see and less fatiguing.
 
To this end, for 'Hobby work', I use 'daylight bulbs'.
Title: Re: Magnifiers.
Post by: Martin [Admin] on January 10, 2013, 11:31:40 PM
 
Agreed about the eye testing... it should be every 2 years shouldn't it?
Title: Re: Magnifiers.
Post by: Bob K on January 10, 2013, 11:33:19 PM
Good words Colin, however I stand by my last post.  I have to have my eyes checked every year for medical reasons, and I do not "need" glasses.  I am no longer a teenager with exceptional close work eyesight and a very steady hand.  Age unfortunately catches up with all of us.  Returning to model making recently I am obliged to accept physical limitations, and to build within them.
 
I still love detailing, and build in as much as I can, but brush painting 2.5 mm script lettering is not something an optician can "fix".
Title: Re: Magnifiers.
Post by: vnkiwi on January 10, 2013, 11:40:42 PM
Have to agree with Stavros (Dave).
My eyesight has been deteriating over the last 20 years (a job thing), and last year I went  to have my eyes tested. I now have two sets of glasses, two for driving (sunny's and clear) and one for reading / modelling.
Also found first stages of cataracts.
Had used flat freznel lens for modelling, prior to this, but now find everything so clear and easy again.
No longer need magnifiers anymore, my close readers magnify a tad. Talked to the Optician about what I wanted and he prescribed.
Best monetary investment for modelling I've ever spent.  :-))
cheers
vnkiwi
Title: Re: Magnifiers.
Post by: RAAArtyGunner on January 10, 2013, 11:41:10 PM

Agreed about the eye testing... it should be every 2 years shouldn't it?

Correct, that's what it is in OZ  O0 O0 O0 .
 
Bottom line, with glasses you are then able to achieve what was not possible.
They are in effect a 'tool' and we use appropriate tools for the task at hand so why not glasses.
If your toooooooooooooooooooooooo Macho, %% %% %% they are available as rimless, looks like you aren't wearing any, Glasses that is {-) {-) {-)
Title: Re: Magnifiers.
Post by: roycv on January 10, 2013, 11:49:49 PM
Hi Essex....a lens magnifier did cause black burn marks on the side of a boat I was building some years ago.  The angle poise magnifier was bolted to wall of workshop.  When not in use it rested flat against a window which unfortunately faced west.  When the sun set it was strong enough through a double glazed window to make a black heat burn on the painted wood of a model boat.
We moved and I bought a house that faced in a different direction, just in case.
regards Roy
Title: Re: Magnifiers.
Post by: Colin Bishop on January 10, 2013, 11:59:50 PM
Quote
Good words Colin, however I stand by my last post. I have to have my eyes checked every year for medical reasons, and I do not "need" glasses.

No, not everyone 'needs' glasses I agree. The important thing is getting regular checks. At my eye test last week the optician asked me about my lifestyle which highlighted that I drive,  use computers and do modelmaking. Fortunately I am one of those people who adapt well to varifocals so don't need several pairs of glasses. If reading in bed I tend not to need glasses at all.
 
When you have cataract implants they can be tailored to what you want so you could have some which mean that for long sight you don't need glasses at all but then you would need reading glasses for close up work. Some people choose to have one implant at long focus and one at short focus so they don't need glasses at all as the brain tends to compensate but this is not always satisfactory. In my case the implants are biased towards longer sightedness but not too much so that the varifocals I am used to are fine in most situations. Varifocals are not quite so good in coping with peripheral vision so you need to turn your head a bit more but I find them OK. Everybody is different though, so what works for one person may not be appropriate for another.
 
You can now get varifocal implants which should avoid the need for glasses at all but they are expensive at the moment and tricky to get right. It is amazing what is possible these days really.
 
Colin
Title: Re: Magnifiers.
Post by: NFMike on January 11, 2013, 12:06:20 AM
In my youth my eyesight was perfect for fine detail model making, but I needed glasses for distance.  Strange now that my eyes have altered so that I do not need glasses for driving etc but that kind of close up fine work is impossible.   Supermarket 3.5x magnifiers are good for threading rigging and detailing.  I do not intend to enrich opticians with hefty sums to make up special ultra close up glasses.  ie:  a focal distance of three inches.

I'm very similar. Eyes deteriorate to short-sighted in teens (or early 20s in my case) which the optician said was common - it's a puberty thing, so presumably hormonal. (So it's not just the ladies who suffer them.) And in your later years the effect tends to undo a bit. I still need glasses but my prescription is weaker than it was a few years ago. The problem is your accommodation (ability to change focus) deteriorates with age, so even though I'm shortsighted I can't focus close up anymore.

I'm a bit astigmatic but I've never needed to use glasses for reading, so I really can't see the need to pay huge sums for 'close-up' lenses to compensate for my lost accommodation and that I use a few hours a week. (Obviously I have regular eye checks every 2 years anyway.)

Oh yes. I think I still have one of those fresnel lens things upstairs that I tried and didn't get on with. Be a bit dusty but if anyone wants it they can collect for free (IIRC the base weighs about 10kg, so I'm not posting it.)


Colin, my wife adores her varifocals. I've tried them twice (10 years between) and hated them (I'm not an owl) and exchanged them for ornery ones after a few weeks both times.
Title: Re: Magnifiers.
Post by: grendel on January 11, 2013, 12:15:41 AM
my other hobby is astronomy, a friend had to have cataracts removed and talked to the surgeon, apparently most  implants are tinted to remove a lot of the u/v that caused the original cateracts, as an astronomer this cuts down the available light so he arranged for non tinted inserts to be used, this would mean that for the daytime he has to have tinted glasses, but for astronomy he gets a better view - just goes to show the lengths that you can go to follow a hobby.
Grendel
Title: Re: Magnifiers.
Post by: longshanks on January 11, 2013, 12:24:49 AM
I have to wear glasses for reading and each eye requires a different correction.
Speaking to the optician about detailed work he recommended that we increase the strength. This helps in two ways, increase magnification and reduced focal length i.e. the work is closer. Ideal and no headaches!
 
I also have a pair of off the shelf glasses  +4. These are large lenses and I wear them over my standard reading glasses, brilliant for small detail.
Title: Re: Magnifiers.
Post by: Norseman on January 11, 2013, 04:03:28 AM
You really don't need to spend a 'fortune' on glasses. Avoid 'designer' and any of those little extras offered.

Anyone come across any absolute bargains for Bryan's original  question? I'm starting to think this is the medical thread.
 And 8) these shades were free - Martin gave me them  :}

Dave
Title: Re: Magnifiers.
Post by: Bryan Young on January 11, 2013, 03:38:58 PM
I should have expected this topic to wander off in an unexpected direction. Most topics seem to do that.
However, the various replies (particularly the one from “davidm” have coalesced my thoughts.
I’ve been absolutely bewildered by the sheer amount of products on the market, and without a chance to test/inspect stuff it’s all a bit of a lottery.My main objection to the “Anglepoise” variety has always been the fairly narrow field of working area, plus the positioning of the magnifier has to be changed with almost every shake of the users head. Next stop….my friendly optometrist and we’ll work something out. Thanks to all of you. I’ll post an update in due course. BY.
Title: Re: Magnifiers.
Post by: grendel on January 11, 2013, 03:45:15 PM
the best bet is to take in with you an example of what you want to do (I would take in a full A0 drawing- after seeing which they never even tried to mention varifocals) then they understand and can more accurately come to a solution.
Grendel
Title: Re: Magnifiers.
Post by: sailorboy61 on January 11, 2013, 03:47:55 PM
I eventually went for one of these, quite a big viewing area, and good lighting.
 
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RECT-PROFESSIONAL-MAG-FLUORES-MAGNIFYING-LAMP-MAGNIFIER-/330856146761?pt=UK_ToysGames_ModelKits_ModelKits_JN&hash=item4d08902749 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RECT-PROFESSIONAL-MAG-FLUORES-MAGNIFYING-LAMP-MAGNIFIER-/330856146761?pt=UK_ToysGames_ModelKits_ModelKits_JN&hash=item4d08902749)
Title: Re: Magnifiers.
Post by: grendel on January 11, 2013, 03:51:50 PM
you can get a range of headband magnifiers too - eg http://www.theloupestore.co.uk/Headband-Loupes/?XTCsid=a0c2f812ff41914f87af154a4df435d8
Grendel