Model Boat Mayhem - Forum

Mess Deck: General Section => Tugs and Towing => Topic started by: adamD98 on March 06, 2013, 05:04:14 PM

Title: Shottle Drives
Post by: adamD98 on March 06, 2013, 05:04:14 PM
Hi all,
 
 As some may know i'm planning a new build - however I believe the original tug has Shottle units...
 
Are these ok for Tug towing on a model? If so - which units would "you" recommend I use?
 
Thanks in advance as usual  :-))
Title: Re: Shottle Drives
Post by: tugboyben on March 06, 2013, 05:32:49 PM
Adam
There is a brand new pair on Ebay now not cheap


http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/170996388654?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/170996388654?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649)


I got a brand new pair last year form gliders 99.99 each then you need high torque servo's around the 20-25 mark then motor's  %% %% %% %% %% [size=78%] [/size]


http://www.gliders.uk.com/prodinfo.asp?number=G2335 (http://www.gliders.uk.com/prodinfo.asp?number=G2335)


good look with the new build


Jason



Title: Re: Shottle Drives
Post by: F4TCT on March 06, 2013, 06:02:33 PM
for the price of the ones on fleebay, you may aswell buy these - http://www.cornwallmodelboats.co.uk/acatalog/graupner_2335.html (http://www.cornwallmodelboats.co.uk/acatalog/graupner_2335.html)


Ive heard that these suffer with the plastic gears in them and they also leak.


I fancied a pair aswell but I think i'l go for steerable korts.
Title: Re: Shottle Drives
Post by: catengineman on March 07, 2013, 12:22:49 AM
My Tito Neri has a pair of the drives from Graupner, I can say that I have not had problems with leaks and mine have brass gearing inside.
you do need very strong servos to keep them from locking or turning with the torque of the props. I have also converted mine to brass propellers which give even more 'kick' to the unit.
these units have been in three tugs which I have had or worked with and only one had plastic gearing and that was an old model.
Title: Re: Shottle Drives
Post by: Umi_Ryuzuki on March 07, 2013, 03:35:07 AM
The small Schottle handle the boat and tow very well.
10kg barge to 400kg pumpkins...

 :-))
Title: Re: Shottle Drives
Post by: adamD98 on March 07, 2013, 09:19:35 AM
Thanks folks  :-))
 
 I'm really tempted to go with Shottles - I'm just worried as I say about doing a lot of Tug Towing and either burning them out or chewing gears up.  :o
 
hmmm...  :-)
Title: Re: Shottle Drives
Post by: F4TCT on March 07, 2013, 10:08:57 AM
i've just ordered an FT-X from Mobile Marine Models and i mentioned to brian that i was thinking of having some very expensive 100mm wide kort units made for me. He said thats all well and good but we have tested such things and you simply dont get the thrust from the units like you would a steerable kort so i went for the steerable korts in the end although I would much prefer the schottels.


Dan
Title: Re: Shottle Drives
Post by: ministeve on March 07, 2013, 11:18:31 AM
that is right Dan but you can not go 90 deg with Kort's but don't norm need to  specially if bow thruster is fitted
Title: Re: Shottle Drives
Post by: F4TCT on March 07, 2013, 11:25:57 AM
The FT-X will have bow thrusters and steerable korts. that should be enough for what I want.


I would love the schottels though  {:-{




Title: Re: Shottle Drives
Post by: adamD98 on March 07, 2013, 12:18:24 PM
I'm going to go with conventional Prop shafts with steerale korts. As you have said F4TCT - i'd love to put shottles in, but I know where I am with the conventional method. Now - what size Korts for the Svitzer Maltby - hmm  {-)
Title: Re: Shottle Drives
Post by: F4TCT on March 07, 2013, 12:22:09 PM
lol, well its a shame they are so expensive otherwise it would be worth having a go with them.


I guess it depends on what you want to do with the tug, serious heavy towing and they may not be able to handle it for long. They look nice and function nice for gentle sailings on the pond.


Im no expert, quite the opposite.


Dan
Title: Re: Shottle Drives
Post by: adamD98 on March 07, 2013, 12:25:57 PM
Exactly my thoughts - they look great and give good performance on the water, but for constant towing, i'm not sure it's worth the risk considering the cost of the units. Expensive to replace.
Title: Re: Shottle Drives
Post by: F4TCT on March 07, 2013, 12:29:48 PM
Im not slating the product or anything, just purely what ive read from others experience using the schottels has put me off buying them.


Dan
Title: Re: Shottle Drives
Post by: adamD98 on March 07, 2013, 12:32:59 PM
Oh I agree - I've seen various makes of shottle, all of which were impressive. But they were used on boats that don't require nor use a lot of torque. Simply just to have a steady sail.
 
 I suppose using them on an Anchor handler or Platform supply vessel would be ideal, as most of the recent Offshore vessels are run on shottles I believe. Future projects!  O0
Title: Re: Shottle Drives
Post by: poll on March 07, 2013, 01:45:11 PM
Oh I agree - I've seen various makes of shottle, all of which were impressive. But they were used on boats that don't require nor use a lot of torque. Simply just to have a steady sail.
 
 I suppose using them on an Anchor handler or Platform supply vessel would be ideal, as most of the recent Offshore vessels are run on shottles I believe. Future projects!  O0

Hi Adam.
I think it's time for you to make a trip to Balne Moor mbc on a towing day, To see the shottle drive tugs manouver 300LB tankers round a course with no problem. Tugs you see are Flying Kestrel & Osprey.
 
John
Title: Re: Shottle Drives
Post by: adamD98 on March 07, 2013, 01:50:29 PM
 :-))  Thanks John. I'm more than happy to have a run over to Balne Moor mbc. Just give me the dates your sailing and i'll make sure i'm there!  O0
 
 It would be good to be put at ease over Shottles before I start the new build.
Title: Re: Shottle Drives
Post by: poll on March 07, 2013, 02:11:57 PM
 
 
  Hi Adam.
  You will find all the dates for 2013 on our web site,  Balne Moor model boat club. I think a lot of modellers
  think you have to tow at 100mph  ha ha  but that's not the case.
 
  John
Title: Re: Shottle Drives
Post by: adamD98 on March 07, 2013, 02:16:51 PM
 {-) :-))  Thanks John - yeah I got my first taste of Tug Towing over at Ellesmere on Saturday with my Eldergarth. Thoroughly enjoyed it. I have no idea if I spoke to you or not!  :embarrassed: {-)
Title: Re: Shottle Drives
Post by: adamD98 on March 07, 2013, 02:20:49 PM
April 7th ? ... that's a certain someone's Birthday!  O0 :embarrassed: ;D  - I don't think SWMBO would be to happy with yours truly!
Title: Re: Shottle Drives
Post by: poll on March 07, 2013, 03:27:41 PM
 
  Hi Adam.
  Bring her with you, tell her it's her Birthday but your choice to where you go :-))
 
  John
Title: Re: Shottle Drives
Post by: adamD98 on March 07, 2013, 03:30:10 PM
Oops - I actually meant it's my birthday  :o %)  not her's - but she'll have planned something no doubt!
Title: Re: Shottle Drives
Post by: Big Ada on March 07, 2013, 04:05:10 PM
Like Tiling the Bathroom?   %) %) %) %) %% %% %% %%
Title: Re: Shottle Drives
Post by: cos918 on March 07, 2013, 04:27:07 PM
Have a look at this site

john

http://www.scalemodelcastings.com/Z-drives-Azipods_c_50.html
Title: Re: Shottle Drives
Post by: adamD98 on March 07, 2013, 09:24:56 PM
I'll try and get the day off - i'll move my Birthday (can you do that? I mean, it does belong to me after all!).
 
Thanks for the link John  :-))
Title: Re: Shottle Drives
Post by: bigford on March 08, 2013, 04:27:48 AM
i have two of these for a tug i'll be building someday
there the z deives for the seabex one
(http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q162/bigfordf550/TheSPPSZ-Drive_zpse79adfcd.jpg)
Title: Re: Shottle Drives
Post by: adamD98 on March 08, 2013, 06:44:59 PM
Thanks bigford - always liked the Seabex One
Title: Re: Shottle Drives
Post by: adamD98 on March 14, 2013, 10:08:19 PM
Ordered myself a set of Schottel's  :-))  Looking forward to the new challenge when my Hull etc are ready.
 
 Going to use Graupner 900's on the schottel's, but I'm a little confuddled over which servo/s I should use, and "how" to set this lot up!!
I prefer Hitec servo's, just not sure what size/weight I should use.
Title: Re: Shottle Drives
Post by: Umi_Ryuzuki on March 14, 2013, 11:12:54 PM
If you are running the larger Graupner Schottel drives, Gr2335, then you will
want to run some high torque metal gear servo. Especially with the 900 motors.
If you don't, the motors will sometimes overpower the servo, and spin torque them out of position.

Also, build a small wood gallows for the shaft support ahead of the drive.
The motors will have a tendancy to torque those supports back and forth till they break.

Title: Re: Shottle Drives
Post by: adamD98 on March 15, 2013, 12:04:55 AM
Thanks Umi  :-))  Advice most definately taken on-board. Those are the Schottel's by the way - the Gr2335 unit's.
Title: Re: Shottle Drives
Post by: catengineman on March 15, 2013, 07:14:17 PM
There are a couple of modifications you can do which I have found to help in my Tito Neri and also on another tug that used them.
if you look at Umi's picture where the red is marked there is a small lube hole which I glued a tube to so that I could iol the bearings which are in that part.
then there is also another small orafice at the base where they are screwed to the hull of the vessel, this one I use to fill the stock with chain grease that then stops any water getting through.
this mod also has another small addition that I carried out ad to explain I will try. this allowes the grease can get to the drive shaft and therefore the 90* gear train in the hub.


Before I fitted the units to the hull I stripped them down to remove the drive shaft from the vertical, then with a small drill I made a hole through the internal part of the stock but before I did I made sure that the internal part was 180* from its normal position so that when the stock is in the normal position the hole I drilled was not in line and thus reduce the possibility of water getting through but also letting the grease to find its way to the drive train when I turned the unit as far as possible when I used the chain lube can.
Title: Re: Shottle Drives
Post by: adamD98 on March 17, 2013, 07:43:27 PM
Thanks for the tips catengineman  :-))  I guess being able to "service" the schottels, you certainly lengthen/maintain a good working life from them.
Title: Re: Shottle Drives
Post by: adamD98 on March 19, 2013, 03:58:03 PM
Just taken delivery of my Schottel's  :-))  Looking forward to this new challenge!
Title: Re: Shottle Drives
Post by: ministeve on March 19, 2013, 06:59:44 PM
take lots of pics adam will be watching with interest
regards steve
Title: Re: Shottle Drives
Post by: adamD98 on March 19, 2013, 07:02:47 PM
 :-))  Will do Steve - I'll start a build thread for the boat in question when I've got all the bits I'm waiting for.
Title: Re: Shottle Drives
Post by: old shrimper on March 21, 2013, 08:58:27 AM
keeping my eye on this one
i would like to put a pair of 70mm [/size]schottels, in to the AMSTERDAM is it poseable do you think ??
Title: Re: Shottle Drives
Post by: poll on March 21, 2013, 07:36:24 PM
keeping my eye on this one
i would like to put a pair of 70mm schottels, in to the AMSTERDAM is it poseable do you think ??

 Hi old Shrimper.
 I don't think that hull lends it's self to shottles, It's a lot of cash to spend to find you have difficutly fitting them.
Regards
 
John
Title: Re: Shottle Drives
Post by: tugboyben on March 24, 2013, 06:02:10 PM
Z drive's
Look to work very well running of brushless


I have some spare brass bevel gear's may i have a go at making one for a springer tug


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=TcMo8JyoXfk#! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=TcMo8JyoXfk#!)


Jason



Title: Re: Shottle Drives
Post by: adamD98 on March 27, 2013, 12:33:39 PM
...Guess what folks  :o :}  ... I've got my Maltby hull  O0 :}   :-)) !
 
 Got the Hull, plans and photo's. A pair of Schottel's and a load of timber! ...Now I need everything else!  O0 {-)
Title: Re: Shottle Drives
Post by: freshfrenchbread1964 on April 08, 2013, 02:42:32 PM
Adam Adam Adam!! where art thou Adam?  thought you were coming to Balnemoor yesterday ? All the countries top tuggers assembled in one place awaiting the final piece of the jigsaw. would her indoors not let you out to play on your Birthday?. Missed a great day , the sun was shining, the tea and coffee were flowing . The greasy bacon and egg sandwiches were been devoured & let's not forget the beautiful home made cakes made by Olive's daughters were sublime. The Tugs were towing ,  boats of all sizes were chug chug chugging  round the scale course . but where was Adam  ? My guess is you were building the Switzer Maltby  in secret ! lets have some pictures !your posts have dried up like an old prune (smiling ) hope to see you at the next one .
Nick