Model Boat Mayhem
Mess Deck: General Section => Tugs and Towing => Topic started by: old shrimper on March 21, 2013, 06:56:15 am
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HI guys
my wife just bought me the AMSTERDAM kit for my birthday ( lucky me )
after reading up on lots of builds on the BIG MOTHER it apers to handle like a dray ?
so seeing as how i love big props and nozzles
im going to fit a BIG STEERING NOZZLE and a bow thrust er ,does any know what is the biggest one that will fit under her, 90 mm?
i have finish off the TC first so i have plenty of time to get stuff to gether
what does the fitting kit from Westbourne models. consist of ? is worth buying [/size]
cheers bob
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Here's a shot I found on the internet of one of the sister ships, Malabar. I don't know if it helps, but it is big.
John
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Me personally I'd go with a 70-80mm Steerable Kort, 4 bladed prop and a Bow Thruster.
I think that would give very good maneuverability. :-)
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wow looks like about 12 ft in reality
what that in scale?
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wow looks like about 12 ft in reality
what that in scale?
The Model Amsterdam is 1/4" to the foot, work it out.
Here's a shot of the real Amsterdam
John
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1/50th I think the Amsterdam is - so 12ft would roughly be 72-73mm?
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Looks like the 'Amsterdam' is a popular choice on the gift front. I've just received one for my birthday and am looking at all internet information including the steerable kort nozzle option. I was considering the 60mm but now that 70mm has been mentioned I'll have a think about that. Does anyone think there'll be a difference between 60mm or 70mm? {:-{
Glyn
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Oh yes, can anyone tell me if the prop for a steerable kort nozzle needs to be a special prop - flat tipped blades, or will a standard prop be fine?
Glyn
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Here's some more Amsterdam pictures for those looking for the same.
John
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.............some more........
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My version of it.
I've also got a copy of John Fryant's article on building the Amsterdam. If anyone wants a copy, PM me
John
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Oh yes, can anyone tell me if the prop for a steerable kort nozzle needs to be a special prop - flat tipped blades, or will a standard prop be fine?
The proper flat tip prop will produce more pulling power than a standard prop.
Joe :-))
:-)) :-))
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John - Thanks for the photo's and a PM sent for the offer of the Amsterdam build. Last night I read your airbrush tutorial, very well presented and informative. Thanks for your effort.
Joe - Okay it looks like I need to source a proper kort nozzle prop for the steerable kort. I guess the position of the prop within the steerable kort nozzle is critical and therefore I need to be accurate on the length of the prop shaft.
Regards
Glyn
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Hi, seeing as you are going to use a steering kort you may find that you have to use a rounded tip
prop, with the prop centred on steering shaft line it will not bind when you put the helm on. The kort nozzle props which are tipped to run very close to the inner sides of the nozzle would bind when the helm is put on. This nozzle does not move. Nemesis
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1/50th I think the Amsterdam is - so 12ft would roughly be 72-73mm?
1/4" to the foot = 1/48 scale = .02083
1/50 scale = .02
Pretty significant difference I guess.
John
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Nemesis,
I found this photo of Malabar somewhere on the net, which is why I posed the question.
But I may play safe and go for a regular shaped prop.
Regards
Glyn
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thanks for the pic and info
just a another query do you think a pair of schottels would fit in the stern
would be a nice modern up grade for her
cheers Bob
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My version of it.
I've also got a copy of John Fryant's article on building the Amsterdam. If anyone wants a copy, PM me
John
Thank you John (AKA oldiron), copy received. :-)) :-))
My kit is the original with plank on frame.
The article by John Fryant has lots and lots of good detail/information. O0 O0
Thank you :-)) :-))
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Thank you John (AKA oldiron), copy received. :-)) :-))
My kit is the original with plank on frame.
The article by John Fryant has lots and lots of good detail/information. O0 O0
Thank you :-)) :-))
No problem, glad to be of assistance.
John
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John - Thanks for the photo's and a PM sent for the offer of the Amsterdam build. Last night I read your airbrush tutorial, very well presented and informative. Thanks for your effort.
Joe - Okay it looks like I need to source a proper kort nozzle prop for the steerable kort. I guess the position of the prop within the steerable kort nozzle is critical and therefore I need to be accurate on the length of the prop shaft.
Regards
Glyn
Hi Glyn I think Nemesis has made a good point about the steering Kort. Here is the one that I have just finished making for one of my builds, the Kort has an inside diameter of 130mm.
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Hello,
A good source for the capped Kort propeller would be Cornwall model boats. But if you look at any of the above pictures, they seem to use what looks like an older version of Kort props where the blade corners are rounded and tops are flat.
I have the same boat with the old plank on frame hull in the works as well, I opted to make the nozzle from drain pipe which I'm still debating with myself about and purchased the regular four bladed Raboesch 70mm propeller from the same source since I'm a little concerned with it hitting the inner walls if it was fully capped like thier current offering, also it was a lot more reasonable in price :-))
Thanks John (Oldiron) for the article it is exactly what I was looking for, I'll PM you if I'm ever going around Lindsay so I can see some of your awsome work in the flesh.
Hany
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Hany,
Do you believe that a 70mm steerable kort is the largest size kort that can fit the Amsterdam model? I am going to play it safe for now and get a standard prop for the kort. It's not a major issue to try a flat tipped prop later, if I want to.
Glyn
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Hello,
Thanks John (Oldiron) for the article it is exactly what I was looking for, I'll PM you if I'm ever going around Lindsay so I can see some of your awsome work in the flesh.
Hany
Thanks Hany, Our boat club is putting on a mall show tomorrow. if you can see your way clear to come to the Lindsay Mall drop by and say hello.
John
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Thanks John,
Very tempting, I might just do it if I get out at a decent time from the Dentist's office (And if I can still walk). {-)
Hany
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hi john
is there a HOW TO on how to set up a steering nozzle on the forum some were ?
i don't seam to have much joy with the search button
cheers Bob
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Hany,
Do you believe that a 70mm steerable kort is the largest size kort that can fit the Amsterdam model? I am going to play it safe for now and get a standard prop for the kort. It's not a major issue to try a flat tipped prop later, if I want to.
Glyn
Glyn,
70mm would about the right prop scale-wise, Weather the Kort nozzle will fit is a different issue, since some of the commecial ones might just be too thick walled and include a large stem which will require quite a bit of sanding down to just squeeze it in, remember that they made the model with a reular rudder and we're trying a retrofit here. I chose to use a plastic tube (not installed yet) but it should fit OK albiet looking kind of wonky snce it's too straight and does not have the taper a Kort should have, I was also thinking of finding a thicker plastic cup and cut it to size since it is tapered. Your thoughts everyone?
Hany
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Hany,
I'm going to try a 70mm kort as some Amsterdam builds appear to have fitted one. I did consider the plastic tube but I don't have the tools to taper the thick wall or complete the sweeping internal curve. I'm sure that these features add considerably to its effectiveness and a purchased one is 'relatively' good value.
This is my first model and I'm not going to be too adventurous but I would like to do a good job. I already have ideas for future projects.
Glyn
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I'd be interested to know how it turns up. So please let us know which one you chose and how it fits.
Hany
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Hany,
Will do.
Glyn
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can some one post a pic of the underwater stern section ?
i don't have my kit yet
would like to ponder over what i can do to fit the KORT or the schottel drive from scratch , i have a few ideas about reshaping / flattening the underwater section at the stern
just a bit of info for you guys
i have seen a few steering nozzle taken off real trawlers ( small ones 50" or so ) as they loose a lot of bollard pull on a turn so when you are towing gear on the sea bed and the boat loses momentum the gear can bog in to the bottom if its soft
but for maneuverability they are great for backing up in to a pen or a wharf
NOT so good for towing with rudder on any thing but straight ahead
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robbe do large steering nozzles,plus matching props,they seem less bulky than others slug
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im reading that the robbe ones have a high breakage rate ??
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Oh yes, can anyone tell me if the prop for a steerable kort nozzle needs to be a special prop - flat tipped blades, or will a standard prop be fine?
Glyn
you can get a nice 60 or 70mm kort from Mobile Marine models, and a matching prop from Prop Shop, which has flatish!! tips to the blades.They re a brilliant combination.
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Andy,
I've been looking at steerable kort nozzles and found these;
Model Boat Bits - Cast polyurethane resin
Mobile Marine Models - 'Hardycast'
Prop Shop - Aluminium
The ModelBoatBits kort looks solid but possibly a bit chunky. The MobileMarineModels has a little more detail and the Prop Shop kort is no doubt very durable but the ordering codes make it difficult to size along with the associated prop. I expect I will go with the MobileMarineModel kort as you suggest unless anyone has any comments regarding the others?
I also attach a section through a kort which shows the profile which is why I chose not to start with a thick walled straight pipe section. Incidentally, on the Prop Shop website, it states that the venturi profile improves performance by 20%.
Regards
Glyn
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as regards prop size for mobile marine kort if you tell prop shop what size kort you are using ,they will tell you what size prop needed tony
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can some one post a pic of the underwater stern section ?
i don't have my kit yet
would like to ponder over what i can do to fit the KORT or the schottel drive from scratch , i have a few ideas about reshaping / flattening the underwater section at the stern
j
Hopefully this picture of my model stern section will be of help. You'll notice the extension I put onto the rudder to make it more effective.
John
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heres mine off a happy hunter 60-65mm
(http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q162/bigfordf550/tug005-2_zpsd67d8103.jpg)
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OK GUYS
here is the prop shop kort [size=78%]i got for my amsterdam 85 mm out side dia fits just fits [/size]without[size=78%] mods the hull ,and still retains a shoe under the nozzle for the pintail [/size]
[size=78%]polishes up nice lol [/size]
[size=78%]75 mm 4B KORT PROP shop /prop is on the way [/size]
(http://i1266.photobucket.com/albums/jj529/atomicmaloo/MODEL%20BOAT%20PIC/DSC01624.jpg)
(http://i1266.photobucket.com/albums/jj529/atomicmaloo/MODEL%20BOAT%20PIC/DSC01623.jpg)
(http://i1266.photobucket.com/albums/jj529/atomicmaloo/MODEL%20BOAT%20PIC/DSC01622.jpg)
(http://i1266.photobucket.com/albums/jj529/atomicmaloo/MODEL%20BOAT%20PIC/DSC01621.jpg)
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That looks like a very clean Kort Nozzle old shrimper......did you just take it out of the dishwasher? {-) ....sorry....couldn't resist.....Derek :o
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well almost
a bit of autosol and a rub LOL
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well so far i've had to rise the shaft line 4mm to get the apture clearance wright and retain the inner keel bed for the shaft tube otherwise the nozzle would hung down lower than the main underside of the keel , i wanted to keep the shaft ine for and aft the same as was intended
now i have 1.5 m clearance from the front of nozzle to the underside of the hull and 1.5 m from the nozzle to the shoe on the keel to karrey the pintail for the nozzle
and push the shaft log back 45mm or else the shaft would be to short, needed 45mm of shaft /tube back past the stern post to reach the disc in the nozzle ,
im still waiting for the prop so not game to finishing gluing everything up till i've tried the prop to see if the nozzle turns ok
there really wouldn't be too much work to fit a z drive just a flat platform inside and and fair it in underneath
cheers Bob
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a link to some pic of an amsterdam WITH A Z DRIVE
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=2129332 (http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=2129332)
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Old Shrimper,
Did you get a copy of the John Fryant Amsterdam build that 'Oldiron' was offering on the Forum? After reading it, I've decided to build my Amsterdam with a bit more authenticity, rather than as the kit describes. Initially I thought it would be beyond my skill for a first build, but now I think the effort to make the changes will be worth it. Most noticeably, recessing the anchors, rather than have them stuck out on either side.
I'm also looking for better photos of the boat davits as I think I could probably make a better set.
I know it's a stand off model but it's a good looking vessel that I believe can be greatly improved with a bit more detail. Well I'm going to give it a go anyway and I should learn a thing or two along the way.
Keep the pictures and progress reports coming. I look out for them.
Glyn
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no i dident get a copy of that ?
yes i am going to recess the anchors all so
i think they look silly sticking out to
i have some pic some were
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Old Shrimper,
I've just emailed you a copy of the John Fryant Amsterdam build. It was sent to me by 'Oldiron', so John and he should get the thanks.
John highlighted some of the inconsistencies in the kit with the real vessel. The anchors I've already mentioned. The layout of windows and doors into the accommodation port and stbd side. The area between the funnels and the aft section behind the lifeboat davits. He also mentioned the aft winch being incorrect but I can't locate a good original photo of that. I think I'll add some 'Restricted in Ability to Manoeuver lights' (red-white-red) which are not in the kit.
I'm going to make some of the changes he mentions but I'm not a rivet counter so I won't be going to extremes.
Glyn
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ok here is some pic of the nozzel fitted
(http://i1266.photobucket.com/albums/jj529/atomicmaloo/MODEL%20BOAT%20PIC/DSC01648.jpg)
prop shop nozzle / prop
(http://i1266.photobucket.com/albums/jj529/atomicmaloo/MODEL%20BOAT%20PIC/DSC01649.jpg)
fits nice but any bigger and it would start to be a pain
(http://i1266.photobucket.com/albums/jj529/atomicmaloo/MODEL%20BOAT%20PIC/DSC01650.jpg)
(http://i1266.photobucket.com/albums/jj529/atomicmaloo/MODEL%20BOAT%20PIC/DSC01651.jpg)
(http://i1266.photobucket.com/albums/jj529/atomicmaloo/MODEL%20BOAT%20PIC/DSC01652.jpg)
still molding IN THE STERN POST GOING TO BRING THE BOG ALONG THE SHAFT TUBE TO REINFORCE IT
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Old Shrimper,
What motor; gearbox reduction, are you having with this kort?
Glyn
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hi glyn
it will be hi torque 770 low rpm with no gearbox