Model Boat Mayhem

Technical, Techniques, Hints, and Tips => The "Black Arts!" ( Electrics & Electronics ) => Topic started by: yewgarth on March 30, 2013, 06:22:45 pm

Title: What is it?
Post by: yewgarth on March 30, 2013, 06:22:45 pm
can anyone please tell me what this is? I've been doing model boats for over 40 years and have never come across one before. If any one does know could they tell me how and what it's wired to? Thanks, Martin
Title: Re: What is it?
Post by: tica on March 30, 2013, 06:58:20 pm
I would say that it's a dual switch !

Does the IC state ZN409 ?
Title: Re: What is it?
Post by: Rottweiler on March 30, 2013, 06:59:45 pm
showing what is written on the side might help someone identify it?
First opinion....its a thingy! (sorry couldnt resist that!)
Mick F
Title: Re: What is it?
Post by: barriew on March 30, 2013, 07:01:12 pm
I agree with tica, whatever is on the IC :-))  Plug it into the receiver and you have two on/off switches controlled by one channel.


Barrie
Title: Re: What is it?
Post by: Circlip on March 30, 2013, 07:04:23 pm
Speed Control.
 
   Regards  Ian.
Title: Re: What is it?
Post by: Klunk on March 30, 2013, 07:11:14 pm
That my friend is a dangle obtuse ojamaflip!
Title: Re: What is it?
Post by: john44 on March 30, 2013, 07:17:08 pm
That my friend is a dangle obtuse ojamaflip!
Nope sorry klunk its the wrong color to be one of them.

john
Title: Re: What is it?
Post by: yewgarth on March 30, 2013, 07:59:15 pm
definitely not a dangle obtuse ojamaflip a thingy or a speed controller! One of the boxes says.....

KG1P-F
RES. LOAD
10A 110VAC OR 24V DC
5A 220VAC
COIL DC 6V.

]Hope that helps.
Title: Re: What is it?
Post by: Circlip on March 30, 2013, 08:02:38 pm
The two boxes are relays.
 
  Regards  Ian
Title: Re: What is it?
Post by: yewgarth on March 30, 2013, 08:23:14 pm
would it be a 6V output powered by the receiver?

Title: Re: What is it?
Post by: tica on March 30, 2013, 08:34:47 pm
Flip it around and take a picture from the other side of the part and we will easily be able to tell you how to use this switch.

BTW: The 6V is the requride voltage to pull the relay on.
Title: Re: What is it?
Post by: yewgarth on March 30, 2013, 08:49:56 pm
Like this.....
Title: Re: What is it?
Post by: yewgarth on March 30, 2013, 08:54:23 pm
Or this.....
Title: Re: What is it?
Post by: Sub driver on March 30, 2013, 09:29:12 pm
The chip zn409 was used in speed controllers like electronise before the chip went out of production and the speedos changed, there is also a variable pot for adjustment so might be as circlip says a low wattage speed control.

For what its worth regards sub.
Title: Re: What is it?
Post by: yewgarth on March 30, 2013, 10:01:50 pm
Thanks Sub driver  :-)) . But i'll still welcome theories.
Title: Re: What is it?
Post by: Snowwolflair on March 30, 2013, 10:14:41 pm
Dual relay switcher. One relay closes stick forward one closes stick back.


You could wire aux functions or a bow thruster.
Title: Re: What is it?
Post by: yewgarth on March 30, 2013, 10:26:06 pm
and how exactly would this be wired snowwoflair?
Title: Re: What is it?
Post by: nick_75au on March 30, 2013, 10:26:40 pm
Definitely a switcher there's no heavy components to variably switch motor current, useful for a single speed bow thruster or two heavy load (10 amp) items. You connect a + supply to the common terminal and your load + to the normally open contact for basic on off control of your load. The load neg is connected directly to supply neg.


For a thruster or reversible motor


(http://images.the12volt.com/12voltimages/reverse_polarity_act_pos.gif)
the 30 terminal is common, 87 is NO and 87a is NC, tor the purpose of this exercise you can ignore the 85 and 86 terminal, they are taken care of by the board. (EDIT I Got NO and NC reversed :embarrassed: )


Nick
Title: Re: What is it?
Post by: yewgarth on March 30, 2013, 10:53:13 pm
Brilliant, how good are you lot? Where else would you get this service?
Title: Re: What is it?
Post by: More Coffee on March 31, 2013, 03:04:29 am
wrong thread.... %%
 >>:-( .
 
But I did notice a lack of fly back diodes..
The pot is probably to adjust the sensitivity.
The rest of the bits just help translate PWM into Voltage to crack the relays.
Title: Re: What is it?
Post by: Circlip on March 31, 2013, 10:13:24 am
Before three phase motors and ESCs, one step up from "Bobs Boards" was the speed controller that used a pulsed relay for speed control. The chip varied the on/off ratio of the relay(s) like a mechanical Triac.   
 
   409 was one of the PWM chips fitted to many "Solid State" servos and replaced lots of discrete components
 
  Regards Ian
Title: Re: What is it?
Post by: yewgarth on March 31, 2013, 02:16:09 pm
Errrrrr thanks........i think?

Title: Re: What is it?
Post by: inertia on March 31, 2013, 03:30:44 pm
No question but that it's a dual relay switch. The legend on the copper side of the PCB actually identifies the Common, Normally Closed and Normally Open contacts of the Left and Right relays. I imagine the pot might control the switching point i.e. how far you have to push the stick before the relay is triggered. The only unanswered questions are
1. What is the current rating of the relays (often inscribed on the face of the relay itself)? and
2. Is the switch latching or non-latching i.e. does it stay closed when you let go of the stick? Easy enough to find out by trying it.
I'm curious to know who made it, as it looks like something which has been neatly DIY-etched onto plain copper-clad laminated paper board  rather than "professionally" produced on epoxy-cloth board. Could be from a magazine article. I think the ZN409CE chip went extinct around 1998, although I see they are still traded at around twenty eight quid EACH on Fleabay.......... I have a small supply which I am saving as part of my pension pot  8)
DM
Title: Re: What is it?
Post by: grendel on March 31, 2013, 04:49:56 pm
it said 10A at 24V DC (relays will have a different rating for dc and AC)
Grendel
Title: Re: What is it?
Post by: inertia on March 31, 2013, 05:17:41 pm
O, yeah - missed that bit!

Mind you, I've just spent half an hour looking for 100 x LEDs which I was convinced I'd thrown away by mistake, only to find them sitting in a drawer of a storage cabinet which I'd labelled up and where I'd put them only on Thursday............... What???  :o

Why is it I can remember stuff from 40 years ago and yet I forget things I did this week?

DM (pronounced "dumb")
Title: Re: What is it?
Post by: malcolmfrary on March 31, 2013, 07:49:36 pm
It's relay switching device that gives an output as long as the stick is operated far enough (i.e. non-latching, there are not enough components to have it be anything else).  The lack of anti back emf diodes is not a worry since it appears that that job is being done by the pair of electrolytic capacitors which will also serve to smooth the pulsed output of the chip when operating the relays. 
Power to operate the relay coils from the RX lead, as has been said, the copper side of the PCB has the 2 sets of contacts labelled to make wiring easier.  The relays do say they are 6 volt coils, but there are such things as tolerances, and they will probably be quite happy with down to 4.5v.
Title: Re: What is it?
Post by: grendel on March 31, 2013, 08:27:29 pm
a lot of coils are fine down to quite a low voltage, as part of my job I used to test protection relays in power stations, part of that was the voltage to activate and the voltage when the relay drops out again. while some would need 2-3v to pick up, the drop out voltage was usually around 0.5v, as long as they would operate at the required voltages they were passed, out of thousands of relays tested I only ever found a couple that the coils had failed, the rest of these relays, some over 60 years  old were still fine.
Grendel
Title: Re: What is it?
Post by: Stavros on March 31, 2013, 10:17:54 pm
O, yeah - missed that bit!

Mind you, I've just spent half an hour looking for 100 x LEDs which I was convinced I'd thrown away by mistake, only to find them sitting in a drawer of a storage cabinet which I'd labelled up and where I'd put them only on Thursday............... What???  :o

Why is it I can remember stuff from 40 years ago and yet I forget things I did this week?

DM (pronounced "dumb")

Nah it's called OLD AGE my friend  {-) {-) {-) {-) {-) {-)
 
 
 
Dave
Title: Re: What is it?
Post by: irishcarguy on April 06, 2013, 05:46:22 am
It just might be the case that what you did 40 years ago was much more fun & probably illegal too. Just saying. Mick B.
Title: Re: What is it?
Post by: More Coffee on April 06, 2013, 06:37:44 am
No..It was fun ... illegal by todays standard... {-) :-))
 
 
Title: Re: What is it?
Post by: wibplus on April 09, 2013, 07:58:49 pm
.............and there was me thinking it was a global whippentanger that fits on top of the rotational galoopifier.  {-) {-) {-) {-) {-)