Model Boat Mayhem
The Shipyard ( Dry Dock ): Builds & Questions => Navy - Military - Battleships: => Topic started by: eddiesolo on May 12, 2013, 11:15:18 pm
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Got hold of a cheap Airfix H.M.S Belfast model kit. Going to do another sunken diorama, as you know H.M.S Belfast is a museum ship on the river Thames, but the Town Class cruisers that Belfast was one of 10. I have decided to do this one as H.M.S Southampton which was sunk off Malta in 1941. I know I seem to be doing sunken vessels all the time, but I really enjoy doing them. :D
Will get some piccies up as I start it.
Si:)
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Well its a hobby and by definition a hobby should be enjoyable, so you're doing it right :)
I do like your dioramas as do I'm sure several others.... any chance you could do a photographic step by step of how you build up the effects?
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Yep, will remember to take some piccies this time as I proceed.
Glad you like my dioramas, it keeps me busy and helps my disability as I can do these a bit at a time.
Si:)
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You'll need to do a lot of chopping to make Belfast look like Southampton as they are very different in appearance. It maybe easier to do a sunken Edinburgh diorama as she was Belfast's sister ship. %%
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Thanks for the heads up, Edinburgh it is.
Si:)
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.... and don't let this sunken theme spill over into your RC boats ok2
Dave
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RE: don't let this sunken theme spill over into your RC boats. Hi dave too late Si has already "nearly" had that experience with the
falke rudder failure... but I am sure he will do it right the next time {-)
frank
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Thanks for the heads up, Edinburgh it is.
Si:)
Perhaps there's a diorama possibility in the salvage of the gold from the Edinburgh?
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and don't let this sunken theme spill over into your RC boats (http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/Smileys/Tug/wink1.gif)
Dave
RE: don't let this sunken theme spill over into your RC boats. Hi dave too late Si has already "nearly" had that experience with the
falke rudder failure... but I am sure he will do it right the next time (http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/Smileys/Tug/grin.gif)
frank
Hah, hah Frank... ;) Tis true thought the Falke could have so nearly ended as a crusty mess at the bottom of the lake.
Si:)
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Perhaps there's a diorama possibility in the salvage of the gold from the Edinburgh?
Thought about that but to be honest there would be a slice taken out of the starboard side near a torpedo hit hole. I cannot find many pictures of the wreck, well none to be honest, apart from a artists drawing in a 1981 newspaper about the gold retrieval. This shows the ship on her port side so, until I can find and real images or good info regarding the orientation of the vessel then she will be sited on the port side on the diorama.
There are two enemy torpedo hits-both amidships and roughly opposite each other with another that blew her stern away. Also there a few 6'' shell hits from a RN ship that tried to sink her after the crew was taken off, this failed and she was finally sent to the bottom by a RN torpedo. That is all I know so far.
Si:)
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Si,
Have you seen the Wikipedia photo showing the damage to the stern of HMS Edinburgh
Jimmy
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Si,
Have you seen the Wikipedia photo showing the damage to the stern of HMS Edinburgh
Jimmy
Yeah, seen that pic Jimmy, but there are no, none that I can find, of the actually wreck as she lies today. I know the rough locations of the torpedo hits and the stern damage, should look okay if I can get them looking okay. Do not need to be 100% perfect but good enough that the damaged areas does look like in the picture. Checked the scrap bin for old plasticard and plastic to make some bulkheads/rooms that will be visible in the damaged interior. Also trying to find the colour scheme she had at the time of the sinking as although she will have concretions and rust she may have patched of anti-fouling paint and hull paint just peeping through. I know she was painted in battleship grey but also had a spell in 'dazzle' colours so just wanted to see if I could get correct.
Si:)
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Si, I'll keep searching as well.
Jimmy
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Thanks Jimmy, appreciate your help.
Si:)
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As promised I have started taking some piccies of how I build up the sunken effects.
AIRFIX-H.M.S BELFAST KIT 1/600 SCALE-DIORAMA IS OF H.M.S EDINBURGH SISTER SHIP OF BELFAST.
First piccies are of the model. Dry fit, I see why I got it cheap, very bad fit, had to hot weld the seams. Anyway, once that was sorted I set too working on the damage- torpedo damage around mid-ship area this caused a 45 degree list but no more-have created internal structures to represent floor and damage. Stern damage caused by torpedo that ripped the stern apart and destroyed her steering, deck appears in photograph ripped upwards-rudder was damaged and she just turned in circles-added internal structures in stern area.
MORE TO COME...
Si:)
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PART 2.
Having constructed the model to how I wanted it to look, leaving some detail off and other parts are going to be laying next to the ship as debris, the ship has had a coat of brown spray paint, this is to get into the hard to get to places with flock/sand mix, that way it looks dark and rusty instead of grey. Once dry you start to apply flock/sand mix.
Pictures show PVA-non-diluted, a sand mix-note that only the finer grains are used, paint brush and dark brown scenery flock. First off the PVA is applied in sections and then fine sand sprinkled on-ideal for large deck areas etc. Shake off excess and just keep applying the glue and sand until the whole model is coated. Don't worry if there are some patches, you can either re-sand or they will covered when the painting detail is added.
I have found one problem and that is the scale of 1/600 is rather small for this technique, despite using fine sand and flock mix. I may need to find something else, or try and re-create the effects using just paint and build the layers. Never mind we shall continue and see what she turns out like.
MORE TO COME...
Si:)
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Hi Si
Read up what reports there were for the damage to Edinburgh. There appears to have been a video about at some time as model was made of the wreck for a pre-dive survey.
The U-456 fired a torpedo into the starboard side of the cruiser which began to list heavily. Soon after a second torpedo, struck the ship's stern wrecking her steering equipment and effectively crippling her. She was attacked off Bear Island by German destroyers and while the small ships with the Edinburgh drove off the attackers, she was torpedoed yet again, amidships exactly opposite the first torpedo hit from U-456. All that was preventing her from breaking in two was the deck plating and keel, which was likely to fail at any time, the crew abandoned the ship. Fifty-six ratings and two officers had been killed in the attacks.
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The first hit amidships on the starboard side by the forward boiler room, below the stokers mess, killing all in the area with a hole said to be 50ft long many men fell through the deck into the oil tank while the second hit right aft.
The stern was blown off and the steering gear wrecked. Y turret was severely damaged. The quarter deck was wrapped round both after 6in turrets and 63ft of the stern was hanging down. The rudder and two shafts were lost. It was said that only B turret could be worked, which suggests whipping damage by A, but other statements suggest that A turret was still usable.
On 2 May the two F class destroyers were on the beam and the three minesweepers behind.
The German destroyers had fired 15 torpedoes and scored one hit on the port side amidships, close to the bomb room at about which almost cut her in two and caused her to list 17" to port.
There was some further whipping, the turret officer was thrown out of B turret. Both British destroyers were temporarily disabled. About 800 men out of a crew of 850 were then taken off Edinburgh
Harrier fired 20 rounds Semi Armour Piercing shells to hasten her sinking and dropped two patterns of depth charges, but to no avail. Edinburgh was then torpedoed by Foresight. She sank stern first in about 800ft at 72" 05N, 35" 02E. (PEARCE says 71" 51N, 35" 10E and that the fore part broke away, clearly it didn't but was this the superstructure coming off? He continues by saying that stem rose in the air.)
In preparation for the salvage of the gold in 1981 a video was taken of the wreck which revealed a number of surprising features. In particular, virtually the whole of the superstructure, masts and funnels had gone, separated neatly, as with a knife.
The ship lies on her port side in 220 metres. A model made by the salvage team is
held by Jon WENZEL, Curator of HMS Belfast, and this shows the after funnel and mast detached but alongside.)
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HMS Harrier then fired twenty 4" shells at her, but she refused to sink. An attempt to have her sunk by depth charges also failed.
Finally, HMS Foresight (http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/wreck.aspx?15987) fired her last torpedo at her, which made her sink.
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Frank.
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Thanks Frank, need to rework the model then, take off more of the stern, remove the rudder and two props, got the orientation right as I omitted the torpedo hit on the port side-she is lying on it, so no need. Bit of a guess really but I suppose it will be the two props nearer the rudder that have gone.
Great info Frank, much appreciate you searching for me.
Si:)
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Hi Eddie, here is a product that might be of use in your efforts to depict the underwater textures. A trifle expensive compared to glue and sand but might be useful addition to your armoury. I use it for "gravel" base for car and bike models. It comes in a couple more shades than this, worth a look. I got it in B&Q.
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Nice one, thanks for that. I have a can of something similar in the shed from when I made warhammer dioramas, it didn't work very well so left it. Yours is a different brand-will get some and try it.
Thanks again.
Si:)
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PART 3.
After getting the info from Frank, I have extended the stern damage up to the turret, removed the rudder and two prop shafts and opened up the stern plating using a lighter to gently heat the plastic and then some long nose pliers to open up and twist. Also I have opened up the torpedo damage hole as this was too small. I have decided to leave the superstructure as. The fore-funnel is tilted and the aft-funnel is removed to added in the debris field. The sand/mix has been finished and it has had a fix-coat of Brazil brown to seal the sand mix and give a base coat.
Si:)
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An interesting model but am I wrong is suggesting it is rather strange to make a model
of a war grave where 58 men died. Or am I just being oldfashioned
Geoff
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Hi Geoff, nothing wrong with your suggestion. I have a sunken U-boat, beached Gato sub, sunken Curtiss Helldiver dive bomber visited by the MIR 2 DSV and now this model.
My reasons behind it are thus: Firstly, not many people do sunken wrecks. Secondly, these wrecks are slowly decaying and in 100 years time or so there will be the odd scrap and a stain on the ocean floor so for me it is a way of remembering the people that did live, fight and die in these boats and ships. Thirdly, I am fat, disabled and cannot go diving so would never see what these wrecks have become and to see the life that now swims/grows from them. Nothing old fashioned about you Geoff, I honour the men of all nationalities and regard my models as miniature war graves dedicated to the fallen.
Si:)
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PART 4
The model has now had some sponged paint effects, in browns, coral, beige and green.
I have dug out the can of stone effect spray like what Arrow5 suggested and gave it a try on the board. This time it seems to have settled okay so once the model is finished regarding washes/sponging the same sponging will be used on the board.
Si:)
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Hi geoff.
if I can find the article I think the Govt sold the rights to two WWI warships and some scap dealers used explosives to get the props off them. And as per usual when $$ is involved the double standard is applied.
Frank
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There was talk a few years back of salvaging WW1/WWII boats for there steel, something to do with how it was made compared to todays steel and using it.
As you say Frank, when pounds, dollars or any currency can be had then even the deep sea dead are disturbed.
Si:)
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they remove small amounts of steel from the wrecks of the German WW1 Grand Fleet up in Orkney ( legally someone up there has the salvage rights ) to be used in extremely sensitive radiation detectors for space craft , all steel since the Trinity test ( 1st Nuke test in Nevada ) is contaminated with minuscule amounts of fall out but its enough to alter readings so the pre WW2 steel is pretty expensive
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That's it, couldn't remember why. Thanks for that.
Si:)
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Si, I think your dioramas are more poignant and thought
provoking than a pristine model of a ship that was lost in
one of the many wars our various political leaders have
pushed us. I have seen a model of HMS Hood complete with
Royal Marine Bandsmen on the Quarterdeck who all perished.
Just my take on it all
Ned
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Thanks Ned, I agree totally. I look at it this way, people go and visit a loved ones grave so, in my way, it's sharing with others the grave marker of those that perished. After all, those that died at sea and their ships are hidden in dark depths with only a small dive time now and again visiting. My models are there all the time.
Besides, the main reason is that I enjoy doing sunken ships, and if you enjoy something why stop? I am in no way mocking the deeds or the men that sailed the oceans thinking that their cause was the correct one, just bringing into the light that is normally hidden in the depths.
Si:)
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PART 5
Some more paint effects on the ship, also the board has been painted, ship in situ, funnel and crane added as have some sand effects to bury/build up around the ship and debris. Once dry the sand will painted, rust staining added to sea floor and around the debris.
The holes in board is due to fact that I ran out of MDF board and used a backing from a clip frame, all I could find. Being rather impatient I used this, I'm not bothered and will fill in the holes later.
Si:)
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Final flourish with the paint. Added some beige, coral colour with a hint of green just to add something for the eye to notice on the sea floor. Also added some rust staining around the debris and ship. The bare board area is for a plaque.
FINITO!
Si:)
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You have hidden depths O0
Dave
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Cheers Dave, :}
Si:)
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I saw a painting in a book about painting. It was an item where the painter had taken a WW2 model plane (single prop with Tiger Teeth?) and made a basic diorama to fulfil his subject to paint. The painting was a submerged plane in shallow coral waters with a couple of Tiger Sharks knocking about. In this case the plane was quite clean but damaged. It was a wonderful picture and would make a really neat diorama. Quite colourful too.
Dave
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Sounds like 'The Flying Tigers' American volunteers group in China flying P40 Warhawks with Shark teeth and eyes on the nose of the aircraft.
May have a go if I could source some small scale Tiger Sharks...thing is, do you think I could pull it off...you know what I am like for rust!
Si:)
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Hi geoff.
if I can find the article I think the Govt sold the rights to two WWI warships and some scap dealers used explosives to get the props off them. And as per usual when $$ is involved the double standard is applied.
Frank
Hi Geoff.
he is the article for you to muse over THREAT TO HMS CRESSY HMS HOGUE AND HMS ABOUKIR
http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=169306 (http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=169306)
Frank
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you know what I am like for rust!
That''ll be the tin leg
It was the bright colours and the shallowness that I thought would be a nice challenge for you. I also thought a local aquarium shop might have a broken coral piece or two. I think you could pull it off ... no not the tin leg ... oops
Dave
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Lol, having a search for materials, cheap. Have you seen how much a real piece of coral is going for! May have to make some, looking at using pumice stone.
Si:)
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http://industriamechanika.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2&products_id=2 (http://industriamechanika.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2&products_id=2)
might help with any plans you have.... 1:35th tho so you might need to upscale a little
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Why thank you for that, looks good. However, I have been experimenting with a bathroom sponge with the tough scrubby type top and the softer sponge underneath-by spray painting it the sponge goes hard and looks like rough coral. I shall dabble more.
Si:)
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Very very cool! What a fantastic idea, like the texturing in particular. :-))
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Thanks mate, glad you like it.
Si:)
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I like these dioramas but I set that aside and thought seriously about what Geoff said. I guess my own thought on it is this ... No one finds anything wrong with modelling the axis warships and submarines that sank everything from The Hood to tugs, merchantmen and passenger ships. That said, modelling one of our own losses, and done respectfully, seems the better option to me.
Dave
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Hi Dave, unsure what you're saying. Doing a sunken wreck of one of our ships is a no, no, while doing a sunken U-boat is acceptable.
I feel that my models are respectful to the men who fought and died for their cause. I mean, many people make model submarines and RC U-boats, should they not make them as there crews were under a regime that our Grandfathers fought against?
Si:)
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My Grandfather was an acomplished modelmaker (And fought in Africa for under Rommel) and used to make dioramas. His dioramas depicted the aftermath of battle and were quite unpleasant to some people.
His stock response was "you all love tanks and guns, I'm just showing what they are capable of" From what I can tell (He never spoke much about that time) the dioramas were "edited for TV" compared to what he actually saw.
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Hi
Sorry I wasn't clear there. What I meant was that if it is ok to model a U boat that actually did do damage to our shipping and seamen then surely modelling one of our own is absolutely fine ... Respectfully of course. I really like your dioramas. O0
Dave
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Sorry Dave, probably me not reading the post correctly, it was late as I had a disability flare up and was waiting for the meds to kick in.
I have a USS Skipjack sub to do as USS Scorpion, just trying to figure out how to do her on the ocean floor, pictures are sketchy to the condition of her.
Si:)
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(http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=43274.0;attach=124224;image)
You know, every time I look at this picture I want a choccy bar...looks like the model has been dipped in runny chocolate...or maybe it's just me :o
Si:)
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You sound a bit 'Flakey' there, and stop that 'Snickering' too. :D
Dave