Model Boat Mayhem - Forum

Mess Deck: General Section => Tugs and Towing => Topic started by: para_handy on August 09, 2013, 11:14:25 AM

Title: new big tug build
Post by: para_handy on August 09, 2013, 11:14:25 AM
I am just about to start a new build, I bought a GRP hull on eBay see pics
the hull is 38" and is 1/32 scale can someone tell me what type and size of propeller
i should use.
Title: Re: new build
Post by: Netleyned on August 09, 2013, 11:21:58 AM
It would look like the choice has been made for you!
A four blade brass kort prop that will fit inside the nozzle
already fitted.

Ned
Title: Re: new build
Post by: para_handy on August 09, 2013, 11:26:30 AM
if i was using the Kort does the propeller need to be as large as possible the diameter  of the Kort is 3"
Title: Re: new build
Post by: Netleyned on August 09, 2013, 11:40:26 AM
If you contact Prop Shop and give them the Kort internal
diameter, hull size and motor, they will advise and supply.

Ned
Title: Re: new build
Post by: para_handy on August 10, 2013, 12:27:43 PM
This is the first build that i will keep a log I have been working on the wheelhouse
cutting the windows out first a drilled a series of holes then i used small files and
the corners where rounded using a dremel with a small radius sanding drum.
Title: Re: new build
Post by: para_handy on August 10, 2013, 12:44:45 PM
i don't know what i am doing wrong when posting as sometimes i get no reaction from the post button?
Title: Re: new build
Post by: para_handy on August 10, 2013, 12:46:49 PM
I am not shure which tug this is modelled on only thing i know is it was a liverpool tug open to
suggestion's please. I looked at this tug but i dont know enough as i am new to the tug scene
(see pics)
Title: Re: new build
Post by: para_handy on August 10, 2013, 12:50:59 PM
I think this may be the Brocklehust Brocklebank but I think the Kort nozzle is wrong i think it should have a rudder what type or design i don't
know any one out there have a pic of the right rudder for the job.
Title: Re: new build
Post by: TugCowboy on August 11, 2013, 03:58:22 PM
Can't help you identify the hull but thanks for sharing your work so far and I look forward to seeing more.
Alex
Title: Re: new build
Post by: para_handy on August 13, 2013, 02:30:33 PM
I am about to put the wooden strip round the bullworks just below deck level, can you advise what type of glue to use or would it have to be something different so there is no reaction with glass-fibre.
Title: Re: new build
Post by: wicker on August 13, 2013, 05:03:29 PM
I use aradite the long setting one
Title: Re: new build
Post by: para_handy on August 18, 2013, 01:50:58 PM
does anybody have the dimensions of the brocklhurst
Title: Re: new build
Post by: para_handy on August 20, 2013, 01:24:48 PM
due to a slip of the old grey matter i put Brocklhurst and it should be Brocklebank.
Title: Re: new build
Post by: para_handy on August 28, 2013, 08:28:28 AM
I have finished the support for the deck and have fitted the prop shaft and the motor, I have fitted a Mtronik 550 motor but not knowing i think i should of have fitted a 3:1 gearbox or perhaps 5:1 gearbox maybe some of you shipmates can advise.
I will post pic's later today.
Title: Re: new build
Post by: para_handy on August 29, 2013, 08:34:19 AM
here is the pics
Title: Re: new build
Post by: Netleyned on August 29, 2013, 08:42:28 AM
Looking good there
Might I suggest a support under the forward end of the propshaft.


Ned
Title: Re: new build
Post by: sailorboy61 on August 29, 2013, 09:09:05 AM
some photos:
http://www.shipspotting.com/gallery/search.php?search_title=BROCKLEBANK (http://www.shipspotting.com/gallery/search.php?search_title=BROCKLEBANK)
 
the tug is now owned my Liverpool maritime Museum, it might be worth dropping them a line to ask about further information.
Title: Re: new big tug build
Post by: Martin [Admin] on August 29, 2013, 12:05:54 PM
 
Whilst you've got easy access to the hull innards, sand down and smooth of the adhesive/filler while you can. You may also want to think about painting or sealing the GRP too.
Title: Re: new big tug build
Post by: Captbearuk on August 29, 2013, 12:37:18 PM
Martin,
I;m about to start on a GRP hull myself but I was only going to clean it out a bit and maybe a coat of paint. How, and why, should I seal it on the inside?
Glyn
Title: Re: new big tug build
Post by: Skimmer Fan on August 29, 2013, 08:48:12 PM
Para_Handy
I bought the a kit of a Liverpool tug off ebay that looks exactly like yours and came to the same conclusion as you that it was the Brocklebank. Because it was the closest picture to the kit I could find. It had been fitted with a motor and kort nozzle but no prop. I also found out if it is to be the Brocklebank I need to remove everything and start again. I will be very interested in your build as it is my firrst atempt at building a kit.
 
Title: Re: new big tug build
Post by: para_handy on August 30, 2013, 12:16:12 PM
 I have started to spray inside of hull, I have used a dark color Humbrol nut brown.
(pics to follow)
thanks Martin for the advice
Title: Re: new big tug build
Post by: para_handy on August 30, 2013, 12:18:55 PM
 I have taken your advice about fitting a 900 motor with 3000rpm max

I opted for a 75 mm 3 blade propeller and this is also fitted.

 
Title: Re: new big tug build
Post by: para_handy on September 01, 2013, 12:19:10 PM
I was wondering as i said i have purchased the 900 motor i see there is know flat on the spindle would you recommend grinding a flat on the spindle or would you leave it be.
Title: Re: new big tug build
Post by: Tug-Kenny on September 01, 2013, 07:30:16 PM

I always grind a flat if there's none there.

Don't go too deep as it's not necessary.  ok2

Ken


Title: Re: new big tug build
Post by: para_handy on September 05, 2013, 08:38:29 AM
hi there i painted the inside of the hull nut brown did not like repainted white looks better i have started doing the bulwark's i have given them a light skim of car body filler to get them smooth.
Title: Re: new big tug build
Post by: para_handy on September 10, 2013, 01:55:15 PM
 Just update,  we have fitted the 900 motor and i new motor mount and had send for another coupling, the steering gear is in and working fine, I was thinking i will need a hatch so we can get at the steering, have also been working on the wheelhouse windows and i will start to make the insides of the wheel house i.e the wheel and other ancillaries.
Title: Re: new big tug build
Post by: big bill on September 16, 2013, 01:29:49 AM
gday ,
 i think you need a g/box for that sized tug and prop , 75 mm ??
even w the 900 motor , i think you need 3:1, but see how you go , were you told the 900 will turn the 75 prop ??
if so , try it , a 545 would almost drive it w 5:1 ratio , but you loose prop revs =less drive
i tend to use a g/box on most of my high load/tug drives , but thats just me
regards and good luck bill s
Title: Re: new big tug build
Post by: para_handy on September 16, 2013, 01:17:51 PM
why do you think i need a 3:1 gearbox with the 900 motor or i.e. 5:1 gearbox??

and where can you get these type of gearbox to fit the 900 motor

I have to tell you i have never built a tug or used a 900 motor or a gearbox, as for the prop i had ordered the propeller before i started the project, i did get pm advising to use a 70mm 4 blade, but as i said i had already purchased 2 75mm propeller's as i i bought two tug hulls.
Title: Re: new big tug build
Post by: big bill on September 16, 2013, 03:01:57 PM
gday para h,
  i think you need a g/box , due to the drag+size of your hull+load caused by your prop , 75 mm ??
if you have being advised by some-one else who sold you the motor , or has used that motor to drive your prop , ignore me , because i should be wroung .
BUT my experience w motors out here in OZ, and i do experiment w a lot of different motors , tells me that there is a big increase in load w a large prop , motors dont like to be held back , and if they can`t  spin up to speed , they burn out . a heater fan motor is only happy w approx. a 50/60 mm prop , direct drive , but w 3:1 g/box , will drive 100mm+ prop .
 graupner 900 motor w approx. 2:1 gears , drives only a 65 mm prop in they ZED drive unit , thats w gears+65 mm prop , there are some motors out there ,that only rev slowly , and will turn big props direct , but not many
i think , just by looking at your motor , but without all the facts , motor specs , i would be fitting a t/belt home made g/box+3:1/4:1 ratio
we are very limited on oZ for motors , but im drawing up plans for a 1100mm+ tug , narrow beam ,w 90/100mm prop , and it will be driven by 700 jaycar motor via 4:1 g/box , and it should chew stumps all day !!another mob uses brushless motors , w 2.5:1 reduction , to 90 mm props , notice g/box !!
i hope i havent sound big headed,all confused you more , but thats my humble opinion, if you want more info , just ask -bill s
Title: Re: new big tug build
Post by: Netleyned on September 16, 2013, 03:40:16 PM
The 900 thar Para_Handy is using revs at 3000RPM at 12V.


The Graupner revs more than twice that.


Ned
Title: Re: new big tug build
Post by: para_handy on September 16, 2013, 04:26:58 PM
The 900 that I am using revs at 3000RPM at 12V.

Is there someone who has used this 900 motor at 3000rpm at 12v and could you please say what size of prop you used and if it was 3 blade or four and what was the outcome in the water.

i have used the 900 motor and 3 blade 75mm propeller.
Title: Re: new big tug build
Post by: big bill on September 16, 2013, 11:58:19 PM
gday para h,
 i see on another post that the 900 w 3000rpm will drive 70 mm props fine , no g/box , so you should be fine w 75mm prop .
this is 1 of those rare slow reving motors w heaps of torque , we cant get them out here easily .
 with what motors we can get out here in australia , we generally have to use a home made g/box , and tooth belts are nice and quiet , which allows the motors to rev , and build torque , but we balence the prop revs to achieve max. power from prop , too big a reduction , w small prop , just doesnt work
but its still a "suck it and see" method
545 w 5:1 g/box will drive a biggish prop ,75mm+
but w a heavy tug , its better w a700+motor and 3/4:1 reduction
i would like to know more about these 900 motors , what breed +who sells them ??i would like to try 2 in a tug
good luck w the build , its looking good .
 regards bill s
Title: Re: new big tug build
Post by: para_handy on September 17, 2013, 08:21:28 AM
hi Big bill these motors have the following spec.
900 Torque Motor
 Ref: CEM900T
 900 High Torque motor from Caldercraft Electric Motors (CEM).

Nominal Voltage: 12V
Operating Range: 6-24V
RPM at Nominal Voltage: 3000
No Load Current: 0.4A
Current at Nominal Voltage: 5.0A
Stall Current: 20.3A
1/4in plain output shaft

that's all it says about them and the price is 22   5.23 vat= 27:53
Title: Re: new big tug build
Post by: big bill on September 17, 2013, 10:34:15 AM
gday para h,
 thanks for the info , i like the LOW current draw , of less than 1 A , thats unheard of in simple can motors -only other motor who comes close is the 555, on 50 mm direct drive prop (60 mm , if you smile !!) draws only about 1A, on load !! or a tad more , but it only revs to 5000 rpm approx. and has to be matched to the model , but i like it in older work boats , as i can cruise all day .
i will have to get some of those 900 motors and try them , i normally go for a revier motor , and run it through a g/box to brass prop , not much choice out here .the only other motor w similar specs is thew T motors of another UK supplier , similar low revs and low consumption of Amps .
those type of low current ,high torque motors are hard to find
i have 2 steam tugs to do in the next 2-5 yrs ,and i should try the 900 in those , 90/100mm prop , 4 bladed brass
good luck w the build , should be a nice tug , keep the photos coming
regards and thanks bill s
Title: Re: new big tug build
Post by: para_handy on October 24, 2013, 12:26:02 PM
hi there i have not forgot to post more of the build, I have to get another camers as i damaged it in-fact it was in my  workshop and i knocked it of the bench
and the rest is history.

Title: Re: new big tug build
Post by: para_handy on October 24, 2013, 12:27:03 PM
can someone advise me of a good source for paints for the tug
Title: Re: new big tug build
Post by: Tug-Kenny on October 24, 2013, 04:46:35 PM

The general consensus seems to be Rattle cans from a car shop.



ps .....  I do like the red oxide as an undercoat.  It covers well and can be lightly sanded.

ken

Title: Re: new big tug build
Post by: kmmbcwebmaster on October 24, 2013, 06:06:31 PM
I have fitted these 900 motors in my MMM eurogirl have 40mm 4 blade props fitted on 12v got a bollard pull of 7lbs and happily runs all day .have tested these on 24v with same set up and got 10lbs of thrust on bollard pull .
On 24v set up have got around 3hrs tug towing before batterys start to loose power .
Title: Re: new big tug build
Post by: Skimmer Fan on October 24, 2013, 06:39:24 PM
Hi
Have you decided on the scale for your deck fittings like winches
Title: Re: new big tug build
Post by: tugnut on October 24, 2013, 07:40:07 PM
Sounds like you are getting on,But where are the pictures ;) :-))
Title: Re: new big tug build
Post by: big bill on October 25, 2013, 01:34:31 PM
gday para , nothing wrong w rattle cans , but , make certain they are enamel paint , it is available in acrylics too , water based ,if you put enamel on acrylic ,it will crazy crack , and look awful
if you start the model paint w enamel , you have to finish w enamel , or vise versa w acrylics .
 whilst  humbrol is dear to paint a large model ,its real good paint ,i have a yacht ,25+ yrs old ,and the humbrol paint is still good ,and show condition , allowing for its age .
 if you use auto paint , thats OK ,as it works out cheaper , i spray all my models in primmer from a rattle can , paint what i can w rattle cans in base colours , then trim Finnish w humbrol in colours i cant get from spray cans .
 the more you do it , the better you get at it
bill
Title: Re: new big tug build
Post by: Stavros on October 25, 2013, 01:45:23 PM
Read all about it in the article by myself in the painting section.
 
 
Dave
Title: Re: new big tug build
Post by: para_handy on October 26, 2013, 10:20:41 AM
yes i am using 1/32 scale parts
Title: Re: new big tug build
Post by: para_handy on October 27, 2013, 11:55:27 AM
Does anybody know where i can buy a decal of a Engine Order Telegraph as i have had no luck on the net
Title: Re: new big tug build
Post by: dougal99 on October 27, 2013, 12:29:13 PM
Have you thought about making one. Vinyl sheet for printers is available here http://www.modellettering.com/showProducts.asp?categorycode=011 (http://www.modellettering.com/showProducts.asp?categorycode=011)
and possibly elsewhere.
Title: Re: new big tug build
Post by: para_handy on October 27, 2013, 01:09:19 PM
i have decal paper I will have a Go and make my own

Title: Re: new big tug build
Post by: Skimmer Fan on October 28, 2013, 06:31:12 PM
Isthis of any use
Title: Re: new big tug build
Post by: Skimmer Fan on October 28, 2013, 08:53:24 PM
para_handy
Taken at the weekend
Title: Re: new big tug build
Post by: Skimmer Fan on October 28, 2013, 08:54:47 PM
and these
Title: Re: new big tug build
Post by: para_handy on October 29, 2013, 08:54:44 AM
Hi there Skimmer these pics are a great help thanks for posting them
Title: Re: new big tug build
Post by: para_handy on January 12, 2014, 12:35:13 PM
Hi there mates just a wee note to say i have not abandoned the build I have been really ill and can't suffer going out to my workshop
It is to cold and i suffer  from phsoriatic arthritis and i am therefore not too handy with my hands I will resume build as soon as the weather
improve's
Title: Re: new big tug build
Post by: smileyjon on January 15, 2014, 11:35:47 PM
Watching your build with interest and I too have hand issues sometimes....hope you are 'up and running' soon !
Title: Re: new big tug build
Post by: ballastanksian on February 18, 2014, 09:32:02 PM
Get well soon Cap'n. I got my tug hull through the post today and was comparing it with your hull and noticed not a great amount of stern overhang so am thinking of ways to modify it. I look forward to seeing more progress when your arthritis slackens.


Title: Re: new big tug build
Post by: para_handy on June 24, 2014, 12:52:57 PM
 
Hi there I am back on the tug once more hands still not 100% but what can you do, I have invested some money on a 3D Printer man it is handy for the small bits that I cant do with my hands, I( have also started to paint the hull I will post  pics as soon as paint is dry and i can remove the tape.


P.S wife has given me a lovely present she has had the workshop fitted with a radiator and got it plumbed into the central heating,
is this lovely??? or is it I have been under her feet to much now go to your workshop and give us all peace.????
Title: Re: new big tug build
Post by: ballastanksian on June 25, 2014, 08:46:18 AM
Well, it is a kind gift given the expense of the work but I expect it might be an incentive to encourage you to keep the house fume and dust free.


Title: Re: new big tug build
Post by: KillerDave on June 25, 2014, 07:12:25 PM
Hi para-handy!


I hope your hands are on the mend and you can enjoy your build pain free....


Good job on your tug! I have a similar build of the Sea Trojan and I am at the point of putting a deck onto it...


Can I ask.... Is that basa you have used as deck supports? and, Can you give me any tips on getting it to sit square in the FG hull???
Title: Re: new big tug build
Post by: para_handy on June 26, 2014, 09:54:21 AM
Yes it is balsa that i used and is really sturdy enough.
Title: Re: new big tug build
Post by: para_handy on July 03, 2014, 12:54:32 PM
some pics of the hull painted
Title: Re: new big tug build
Post by: ballastanksian on July 03, 2014, 09:12:19 PM
Quite crisp colour demarkation you have there Mr Handy, She is coming along fine:O)
Title: Re: new big tug build
Post by: Tug-Kenny on July 03, 2014, 09:14:49 PM

It certainly is.  Well done.     Now.... that wall behind.  {-)


ken

Title: Re: new big tug build
Post by: ballastanksian on July 04, 2014, 08:57:12 AM
Yes, we are thinking a razzle dazzle scheme with matching curtains and dado rail? Very Lewellyn-Bowen:O)
Title: Re: new big tug build
Post by: para_handy on July 08, 2014, 10:15:42 AM
I have started to put in the windows in the wheelhouse what glue would you recommend ??????
Title: Re: new big tug build
Post by: Martin [Admin] on July 08, 2014, 10:41:09 AM
 
R/C Modellers Canopy Glue

http://www.deluxematerials.com/aerorcmodellers.html
Title: Re: new big tug build
Post by: para_handy on July 09, 2014, 04:06:35 PM
Hi all, this is a picture of some of the parts for the tug made on a 3D printer
Title: Re: new big tug build
Post by: para_handy on July 15, 2014, 02:27:27 PM
some pictures of progress up to date.
Title: Re: new big tug build
Post by: Davenotdone on July 15, 2014, 05:31:48 PM
Hi! just messing about with a Seaport Dickie tug at the moment ( new to the hobby ) and i saw your build. Very nice indeed, and the 3d printed parts really do look good. Have you noticed that your build is so good that looking at your tug from the stern it seems to be happy  :-)  ! ( smiling face ).  Regards, Dave.
Title: Re: new big tug build
Post by: para_handy on August 07, 2014, 08:16:21 AM
when you do the bulwarks what is the best way to do the stanchions in styrene  or wood?? what is the best.
Title: Re: new big tug build
Post by: Tug-Kenny on August 07, 2014, 09:47:34 AM

I always do mine in styrene as they won't rot in the water. They are usually fixed with super glue.    :-))

Cheers

Ken

Title: Re: new big tug build
Post by: para_handy on August 07, 2014, 10:07:24 AM
thanks ken I will use styrene and superglue i was going to perhaps print them in the 3D printer ???
Title: Re: new big tug build
Post by: Tug-Kenny on August 07, 2014, 10:36:12 PM


2 seconds with a Stanley knife and you're done.   :}   I'm just about to do mine at this time as well.

I always get them to fit tight under the hand rail, around the edge of the hull, snugly, as it helps hold them firmer.

cheers

ken
Title: Re: new big tug build
Post by: para_handy on August 12, 2014, 08:12:29 PM
Hi all can someone please advise what the navigation lights are on the tug boat please.
Title: Re: new big tug build
Post by: radiojoe on August 12, 2014, 08:46:24 PM
The third photo of Brocklebank at the start of this log shows the nav lights below the aft side windows of the wheelhouse, the lights as usual are set in a open sided box with black interior.  ;) 
Title: Re: new big tug build
Post by: Skimmer Fan on August 13, 2014, 07:05:22 AM
Is this what you are after
Title: Re: new big tug build
Post by: para_handy on August 13, 2014, 02:27:04 PM
Hi all i think i have asked for the wrong advise, what i want to know is other than the navigation lights what lights are display on the forward mast and colour they are please.
Title: Re: new big tug build
Post by: Skimmer Fan on August 13, 2014, 04:20:56 PM
Not sure of the colours but this is the mast. I am sure there is someone on mayhem who could tell you.
Title: Re: new big tug build
Post by: Skimmer Fan on August 13, 2014, 04:24:41 PM
the lamp half way up is a single the arrow looks as if it is coming from the note.
Title: Re: new big tug build
Post by: radiojoe on August 13, 2014, 06:59:15 PM
Hi all i think i have asked for the wrong advise, what i want to know is other than the navigation lights what lights are display on the forward mast and colour they are please.

I thought it was a strange question given the previous photos,
For a towing vessel the mast lights Can be two, three, or four, all white the number depends on whether the vessel is under or over 50 metres and whether the tow is under or over 200 metres , there is also two lights visible from aft a white and yellow or both again depending on length of tug and tow.   %% %%

Joe.
Title: Re: new big tug build
Post by: CJ1 on August 13, 2014, 07:24:22 PM
Hope this helps,
Chris
Title: Re: new big tug build
Post by: para_handy on August 14, 2014, 09:50:36 AM
thanks CJ1, that is exactly what i was looking for and the picture is perfect.
Title: Re: new big tug build
Post by: tomo1 on March 24, 2015, 06:40:13 PM
Hi can you tell me the name of the hull maker it looks great its what ive looking for
Title: Re: new big tug build
Post by: Channel on July 30, 2015, 08:08:38 PM
Hi, did you finish this build yet?
Title: Re: new big tug build
Post by: the_fifie_man on June 16, 2019, 03:44:25 PM
Hi all para_handy here i have not posted for more than 2 years i have been stopped modelling had lots of family problems but now back modelling again and i ill be posting more pictures of the "Brocklebank" as i do the work i hope to finish within 3 months will be back very soon with lots of pics and ideas