Model Boat Mayhem

The Shipyard ( Dry Dock ): Builds & Questions => Submarines => Topic started by: thegrimreaper on August 31, 2013, 09:42:32 am

Title: Engel Typhoon
Post by: thegrimreaper on August 31, 2013, 09:42:32 am

My Engle Typhoon has arrived let the fun begin quality of the kit looks fantastic going to have to pick a few brains on here though first off a lot of the builds I have seen use brass etchings for the limber holes where do's one purchase the brass grills from??

Regards Mark.

Title: Re: Engel Typhoon
Post by: Subculture on August 31, 2013, 01:13:27 pm

4D modelshop or EMA's.

http://modelshop.co.uk/Shop?searchText=brass%20etching&page=10

http://www.ema-models.co.uk/index.php/catalogsearch/result/index/?p=3&q=etched+brass&x=0&y=0

Title: Re: Engel Typhoon
Post by: Sub driver on September 01, 2013, 12:24:09 am

Hello mark.
It was nice talking to you at the Haydock show.
I will have a look to see where I got my brass etch sheets from, dont think it was either of the two places sub culture mentions......by the way they are sized you can get different hole spacings and also square and round.
Will see if I can find the size I used on mine if you like, I think they are about the scale size.

From memory think it was sale link
www.scalelink.co.uk
Sub.

Title: Re: Engel Typhoon
Post by: thegrimreaper on September 02, 2013, 03:29:48 pm

My dillema is what size do I order from either site differant sized mesh

Title: Re: Engel Typhoon
Post by: Sub driver on September 02, 2013, 06:04:06 pm

Mark.
If it helps the product code I used was slf089.
This give each square hole of 1 1/2 mm, and there are 12 holes to each limber hole cut in the hull.

Hope that makes sense, if not will put a pic of my grills for you to se
Regards sub.

Title: Re: Engel Typhoon
Post by: Sub driver on September 02, 2013, 06:37:13 pm

Mark.
Here hopefully is a pic
Regards
Sub.

Title: Re: Engel Typhoon
Post by: thegrimreaper on September 02, 2013, 07:18:25 pm

Thanks for that sub the picture says it all got my work cut out for me when I start it on the morrow

Regards Mark.

Title: Re: Engel Typhoon
Post by: thegrimreaper on September 07, 2013, 09:22:12 am

Hi Sub,
           I notice on your above photo that the limber hole is not square but is more of an oblong shape, on the hull and plans of my Typhoon all the limber holes are square
           are the engle plans different or wrong?
 
Mark
 

Title: Re: Engel Typhoon
Post by: Subculture on September 07, 2013, 09:28:08 am

Sub Drivers boat is a Kehrer hull not an Engel.

I'm not really a scale buff, and certainly don't know much about Russian subs, but I do know that the Engel plans are off, and there are a lot of differences between different Typhoon boats.

I think most of the limber holes are actually scribed in the wrong position on the Engel. Ramesh knows a shedload about this boat, and there is a chap in France who did a stonking build of one, and altered lots and lots.

All depends how particular you are about authenticity.

Title: Re: Engel Typhoon
Post by: thegrimreaper on September 07, 2013, 10:17:35 am

Thanks Andy, I think I have seen the build log of the French Guy I dont want to go that far with it I just couldnt understand why subs Typhoon had oblong limber holes and mine had square ones I am happy with the hull as it is so will only be working from the Engle plans. I have also seen the build log that Ramesh has on his web site maybe I will drop him a P.M or e-mail when I get stuck on something
 
Regards Mark.

Title: Re: Engel Typhoon
Post by: mersey dave on September 07, 2013, 10:27:50 am

Come on mark where's the photos.........lots of photos  <*< <*<
What will it be 2 weeks then sea trials. {-) {-)
Ok then 3 weeks.If you start getting short on time you could always call on JJ.

No only kidding good luck with the build mate.

Regards Dave.

Title: Re: Engel Typhoon
Post by: Subculture on September 07, 2013, 10:49:16 am

Stern grills on 1:1 boat

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v293/subculture84/typhoongrill_zps3742ed9d.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/subculture84/media/typhoongrill_zps3742ed9d.jpg.html)

Title: Re: Engel Typhoon
Post by: thegrimreaper on September 07, 2013, 11:20:09 am

Thanks for the picture Andy, I might have to revisit the limber holes when they are done and maybe make them oblong as apposed to square thats gonna be a lot more work,
if only the wife could be trusted with a file ha ha and I dont mean a nail file lol
Mark

Title: Re: Engel Typhoon
Post by: Sub driver on September 07, 2013, 05:42:18 pm

Hi Mark.
As sub culture says the Engel plans are way off for the size AND location of the limber holes.
Thats why mine are slightly oblong.
Think the bow shape is a little off too if we are nit picking.
If you trawl the net and pick a boat you should be able to get a correct limber bole pattern as there are some good accurate schematics out there.
Regards sub.

Title: Re: Engel Typhoon
Post by: Typhoon924 on October 15, 2013, 08:37:35 am

Hi there my engel typhoon is an older version and is running failry well and consistantey now adays after much tweaking and help from Ramesh and Andy and Ron..


put this website together hope it helps, bought mine as a part finished project, and rebuitle rewired repainted etc, havent gone for the brass details..but I like her and love sailing her..


http://typhoonsubmarine.co.uk/Roys_Typhoon/Welcome.html

Title: Re: Engel Typhoon
Post by: Davy1 on October 15, 2013, 11:44:49 am

Very nice sub and web site.
Thanks for sharing!

David

Title: Re: Engel Typhoon
Post by: Typhoon924 on October 15, 2013, 01:34:24 pm

Your very welcome.


Great boats hope we cross paths...

Title: Re: Engel Typhoon
Post by: Mankster on October 24, 2013, 08:21:11 pm

I have been taking some time off subs. Kids markedly reduce your hobby time  {:-{
Still, I will always find time to help someone who wants to do the Typhoon right and make it a little more accurate.

Title: Re: Engel Typhoon
Post by: mermod on October 24, 2013, 10:31:03 pm

Hi guys, please don't think I'm hijacking your topic but I have a Typhoon related question.
Long before the Engel model came out I acquired a small plastic kit sold by Dragon Models and scaled it up to 1.8m long, put in a lot of hours to get it identical to the kit, however a few years later (when the internet took off ) I found that the dragon kit looks very little like the typhoon, did they get it wrong or is it  a model of a different variation? It's annoyed me so much that it's been sitting in the corner for about 10 years.

Title: Re: Engel Typhoon
Post by: Sub driver on October 25, 2013, 09:19:41 am

hi.
I know which one you mean.....the one with the beaver tail ?.
Think it was just best guess at the time as there was no info from the soviet union about the then highly classified typhoons.
not until things improved that the actual under water rear end shots became available.
Thinking about it though the single rear beaver tail  hydroplane would never work the stresses on that would have been horendously severe.
regards.

Title: Re: Engel Typhoon
Post by: mermod on October 25, 2013, 10:49:53 am

Yep, the beaver tail one (facepalm) looks ok to most but annoys the heck outta me, don't know if she'll ever hit the water.

Title: Re: Engel Typhoon
Post by: Davy1 on October 25, 2013, 01:36:18 pm

Hi Mermod,

Very interesting that tail.  It would have some intriguing hydrodynamic effects, even on a model.

Perhaps you could trim it off  because otherwise it is a great looking model.

David

Title: Re: Engel Typhoon
Post by: warspite on October 25, 2013, 01:47:19 pm

I think the programable speed controllers now adays is a lot smaller as well, the one fitted underneath seems to be a 32 bit version  {-) hate to see the trailing cable for that

Title: Re: Engel Typhoon
Post by: Sub driver on October 25, 2013, 02:41:55 pm

hi.
looks easy enough to modify to be honest, will post a pic of my typhoons rear end if it helps
Regards.
sub.

Title: Re: Engel Typhoon
Post by: Mankster on October 25, 2013, 05:13:11 pm

Quote from: mermod on October 25, 2013, 10:49:53 am

Yep, the beaver tail one (facepalm) looks ok to most but annoys the heck outta me, don't know if she'll ever hit the water.

Thats a quite spectacular model, more so because you scaled it up. I would just leave that tail alone or you will need further tinkering to fit working rear planes. The Typhoons actually had 3 different rear ends (one was like the the Engel version) and at least one had 5 bladed props. There were all different lengths and least 2 distinct arrangement of missile tubes with different missile door positions. As well as countless other differences between the hulls, which also changed during the various refits.
Unless you are planning on building a particular hull as depicted on first commisioning or after a refit I would just leave it as it is. You wont come across too many people at pond side who will pull you up on it.

Title: Re: Engel Typhoon
Post by: mermod on October 26, 2013, 11:53:29 am

Do you think it would still work without the stern plane being in the flow from the props?

Title: Re: Engel Typhoon
Post by: Mankster on October 26, 2013, 01:41:27 pm

Yes, most modern subs don't have the rear dive planes behind the props.

Title: Re: Engel Typhoon
Post by: Number 6 on October 26, 2013, 07:54:30 pm

I stumbled on this page on Facebook earlier, lots of interesting photos.
Great build, always fancied one of these.

Dave.

http://m.facebook.com/pages/Typhoon-class-submarine-941-%D0%90%D0%BA%D1%83%D0%BB%D0%B0/131222016649?id=131222016649&_rdr    (http://m.facebook.com/pages/Typhoon-class-submarine-941-%D0%90%D0%BA%D1%83%D0%BB%D0%B0/131222016649?id=131222016649&_rdr)

Title: Re: Engel Typhoon
Post by: Pvtspoon on November 13, 2013, 04:55:50 pm

i seen a half the size of an Engel Typhoon at the international model boat show 2013 it was a fibreglass hull molded very well indeed would love to know who made it or where to get one as the bank loan Engel Typhoon one is to much for me atm


(http://i881.photobucket.com/albums/ac12/Pvtspoon/DSC_1596_zpsd5e665d7.jpg)

Title: Re: Engel Typhoon
Post by: Subculture on November 13, 2013, 05:12:16 pm

These were supplied by a German company, who sadly no longer seem to be advertising them.

they did hulls in this small 1/150th scale and also in the larger 1/100th scale (same as Engel, but epoxy glass hull and slightly different shape).

These hulls do crop up secondhand from time to time, so keep them peeled, and you may chance upon one.

Title: Re: Engel Typhoon
Post by: Pvtspoon on November 13, 2013, 05:15:17 pm

do you remember the German companys name ? could help me in my quest lol

Title: Re: Engel Typhoon
Post by: Sub driver on November 13, 2013, 05:37:04 pm

Hi. kmb is the name kehre model bau.
I have a 1.100 scale typhoon excellent quality.
But......you have to build the hull comes in several bits at least the big one did. you have to cut and fibreglass it together. the small one may be complete though.
Regards Sub.

Title: Re: Engel Typhoon
Post by: Subculture on November 13, 2013, 08:09:44 pm

Website link- http://www.kehrer-modellbau.de/

It's only recently they seem to have stopped listing the sub hulls. They originally offered Victor III and Alfa hulls too.

You could try sending them an email, it's possible the tooling has been sold onto another outfit, or perhaps they used rubber tools and they came to the end of their life, and they decided not to renew the tools..

Title: Re: Engel Typhoon
Post by: Pvtspoon on November 13, 2013, 08:24:44 pm

Thanks guys give me a starting point

Title: Re: Engel Typhoon
Post by: Mankster on November 14, 2013, 11:32:26 am

These were made and sold by Norbert Bruugen and then sold to KMB. Cheaper than Engel but not quite as accurate.

Title: Re: Engel Typhoon
Post by: thegrimreaper on November 26, 2013, 07:32:06 pm

ok got my paint onto the Typhoon had a look at the little water markings for the sub looked in the book at the plans and nowhere do`s it say where they go on the sub tried looking at you tube especially Mancsters sub I know the stars go on the sail and the whit strips go to the rear of the sub accross the stern it looks like there are markings on the tail upper rudder on the sail half way which are continues down the hull and a set in front or to the rear of the front dive planes my question is do I place them so that the water line is zero? maybe if Ramish is reading this he could post a pic or two for me it would be appreciated. I hope to get her wet this Sunday with any luck.
 
Thanks Guys
Mark.

Title: Re: Engel Typhoon
Post by: Mankster on November 27, 2013, 09:18:51 pm

Here you go...

No digits.


(http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q191/Wheelerdealers/653947_zpsb6c51e92.jpg)


(http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q191/Wheelerdealers/ty1_zpsa5e29503.png)


(http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q191/Wheelerdealers/ty2_zpsef308712.png)

Title: Re: Engel Typhoon
Post by: thegrimreaper on November 28, 2013, 07:15:56 am

Thankyou mankster just the help I needed willbe sorting them out tonight now thanks again

Title: Re: Engel Typhoon
Post by: Typhoon924 on November 28, 2013, 10:57:01 am

this is how i did it on mine they were dry transfers and after advice from Andy Lawrence, I prepped the area the transfers went on by rubbing with a little tooth paste, then put transfers on the sealed with clear varnish


http://typhoonsubmarine.co.uk/Roys_Typhoon/Gallery.html#196

Title: Re: Engel Typhoon
Post by: thegrimreaper on December 01, 2013, 03:55:17 pm

Next question now after my maiden voyage everything went pretty well on the surface except not enough lead to submerge more lead to be added for shake down run on Wednesday my question is for anyone who is running a Typhoon, do you still have the orignal scimitar props on because mine dont seem to push the sub along at anything more than about a meter a minute very very slow snail like pace should I try changing the props and putting a conventional one on??
 
Regards Mark

Title: Re: Engel Typhoon
Post by: U-33 on December 01, 2013, 04:11:41 pm

Well done on the maiden voyage, Mark...glad it went ok. I know zero about Typhoons, but one thing you could try is gently bending a bit more pitch into the props to give them more bite in the water. The operative word is ''gently''...but it may be worth a try?



Rich

Title: Re: Engel Typhoon
Post by: Subculture on December 01, 2013, 04:38:45 pm

It's like pushing two subs through the water, so it needs a bit of a shove if you're after a bit of speed.

You can try tweaking the props as suggested, although you may find that difficult to do accurately. Another alternative is to try increasing shaft speed either by tweaking the gear ratio or fitting a higher revving motor, or you can fit some different props with more blade area and/or more pitch. Prop shop are much better props than the Raboesch versions that's supplied with the standard kit.

The last suggestion will be expensive as scimitar props aren't cheap, so I'd try the other methods first.

Title: Re: Engel Typhoon
Post by: thegrimreaper on December 01, 2013, 05:47:21 pm

Thanks Rich and Andy will be giving that a go first then
 
Mark

Title: Re: Engel Typhoon
Post by: U-33 on December 01, 2013, 05:59:12 pm

Seen this, Mark?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2q7EEzS61o&feature=youtu.be

Title: Re: Engel Typhoon
Post by: Typhoon924 on December 01, 2013, 07:52:13 pm

Hi I replaced the five blade with 7 blade from engel and the speed difference was impressive i also use a mixer on mine ti improve turning circle, and the direction of rotation made a difference too..

Title: Re: Engel Typhoon
Post by: Subculture on December 02, 2013, 08:37:12 am

All the Engel Typhoons I've seen have the 7 blade scimitar props fitted as standard. Performance on these boats is fairly stately as standard. Mick Higgots Typhoon, which is an early Engel hull retrofitted with a brace of Ron Perrotts modules was a sprightly performer. IIRC that used 5-blade props with round blade profile, and direct drive motors with fairly large cans, e.g. 700-800 size.
 

Title: Re: Engel Typhoon
Post by: Typhoon924 on December 02, 2013, 09:14:12 am

mine was and older model with the old props, certainly made a difference, its not a fast boat any way, but will try and post a video soon to show performance


Found nice new lake this weekend and had great time


with


http://www.alvastonpiratesmodelboatclub.co.uk

Title: Re: Engel Typhoon
Post by: profesorul on December 03, 2013, 07:58:22 pm

Quote from: Typhoon924 on December 01, 2013, 07:52:13 pm

Hi I replaced the five blade with 7 blade from engel and the speed difference was impressive i also use a mixer on mine ti improve turning circle, and the direction of rotation made a difference too..

HELLO,
What size is the propeller ?
and clockwise or counterclockwise?    ok2
 

Title: Re: Engel Typhoon
Post by: Typhoon924 on December 04, 2013, 09:41:52 am

I bought these and they contra rotate out wards when viewed from the rear..

1 x[/t]7-Blade Scimitar Prop LEFT dia. 50mm M421,15 €[/size]

1 x[/t]7-Blade Scimitar Prop RIGHT dia. 50mm M421,15 €

[/size]

Title: Re: Engel Typhoon
Post by: Subculture on December 04, 2013, 11:00:15 am

Those props should give you about 1.5 mph for every 1000RPM shaft speed.

So if you put in your intended speed, lets say 4mph (brisk walking pace, which I think is about right for a boat like this) divide by 1.5 equals 2.66 multiply by a 1000= 2666RPM shaft speed.

Now that gives you a rough estimate, because other factors will influence the performance of the boat e.g. hull shape, prop ventilation when near the surface etc. Also bear in mind that the motors need to be powerful enough to pull the prop round at that shaft speed. The only real accurate way to measure that is have an onboard logger (e.g. eagletree), but many modellers don't want the expense and complication of fitting one.

However the above method gives you a guideline. Even with the best calculations, computer simulations etc. things have to be tried out.

The easiest and most accurate way to find out is if you know of someone who has the same boat that achieves the performance you desire, and ask what they have done to achieve it. However this isn't always possible.

Title: Re: Engel Typhoon
Post by: Mankster on December 04, 2013, 11:49:51 am

I found the speed to be just right and in proportion to scale of the boat (it's 1:100 afterall) . It is slower on the surface and much faster under water like a true submarine.
Mine came with 6 blades swapped them to 7 blades for scale appearance more than anything else.

Title: Re: Engel Typhoon
Post by: Typhoon924 on December 04, 2013, 11:59:24 am

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXVbGCePzqk


this is before i changed the props its noticeably quicker now.


But as Ramesh says its not a fast sub on the surface and I like slower more menacing patrols...






R

Title: Re: Engel Typhoon
Post by: Subculture on December 04, 2013, 01:18:02 pm

Peter Gabriel backing track for an apocalypse machine- what a paradox!

Title: Re: Engel Typhoon
Post by: profesorul on December 04, 2013, 07:12:49 pm

Quote from: Typhoon924 on December 04, 2013, 09:41:52 am

I bought these and they contra rotate out wards when viewed from the rear..

1 x[/t]7-Blade Scimitar Prop LEFT dia. 50mm M421,15 €

1 x[/t]7-Blade Scimitar Prop RIGHT dia. 50mm M421,15 €

THANK YOU,  :-))
 
Do You remember where did You bought them?.   ok2
 
MARIUS

Title: Re: Engel Typhoon
Post by: Subculture on December 04, 2013, 07:26:48 pm

Engel supply those- http://www.engel-modellbau.eu/catalog/index.php?cPath=113_39_177

Title: Re: Engel Typhoon
Post by: thegrimreaper on December 05, 2013, 10:12:47 am

As always Andy a mine of information thanks for that I think the problem was the sub was to light and was ventilating put a lot more weight in her so the back end is lower pretty much where she wants to be now just need some fair weather to go and test her
 
Thanks again to all who replied
 
Mark.

Title: Re: Engel Typhoon
Post by: profesorul on December 05, 2013, 12:09:52 pm

Quote from: Subculture on December 04, 2013, 07:26:48 pm

Engel supply those- http://www.engel-modellbau.eu/catalog/index.php?cPath=113_39_177 (http://www.engel-modellbau.eu/catalog/index.php?cPath=113_39_177)

THANK YOU.I took notice.   :-))
 
For the RC Models , REALY matter what is the sense of propeller spinning? ........there is a rule  for real models that gives the rotation? ......... or you can use what propeller you have?........or of course the better option is that propeller can be spin like the real model!.
I know , sounds like stupid questions but is good to know!.   {:-{

Title: Re: Engel Typhoon
Post by: Subculture on December 05, 2013, 12:52:58 pm

Doesn't really matter. Most single screw boats tend to be fitted with a R/H propeller.

Ventilation is a very common issue with spindle sterned boats.

Title: Re: Engel Typhoon
Post by: profesorul on December 06, 2013, 09:56:24 am

Thanks.   ok2    :-))

Title: Re: Engel Typhoon
Post by: thegrimreaper on January 21, 2014, 05:13:53 pm

just a bit of an update enjoying the Typhoon thought I would show you my latest achievement just a short clip of the missile launch doors opening

 http://youtu.be/Z16wvlXkj30

regards Mark.

Title: Re: Engel Typhoon
Post by: Number 6 on January 21, 2014, 06:24:34 pm

Looking good, would love to build one of these myself...

Dave.  :-))

Title: Re: Engel Typhoon
Post by: profesorul on January 21, 2014, 08:29:59 pm

  :-)    LOOKS so GREAT.   :-))
 
Looking forward to seen him in the water.
 
MARIUS
 

Title: Re: Engel Typhoon
Post by: salmon on January 22, 2014, 08:35:39 pm

Mark,
That looks great! Nice smooth motion.
Peace,
Tom

Title: Re: Engel Typhoon
Post by: thegrimreaper on January 24, 2014, 02:18:02 pm

http://youtu.be/5mhrkWEBbm8
another link showing the lights and the first bit of detail of the underside of the launch doors
thanks for looking

Mark.

Title: Re: Engel Typhoon
Post by: Mankster on January 24, 2014, 02:27:04 pm

Coming also nicely  :-))

Title: Re: Engel Typhoon
Post by: Subculture on January 24, 2014, 04:30:51 pm

Milk no sugar, ta!

Title: Re: Engel Typhoon
Post by: Mankster on January 24, 2014, 04:50:16 pm

If only I was allowed to build in the kitchen....

Title: Re: Engel Typhoon
Post by: thegrimreaper on January 24, 2014, 05:36:35 pm

Kitchen dry warm and handy for a brew
shed cold drafty damp horrible place   O0 O0 O0 {-) :-))

Title: Re: Engel Typhoon
Post by: profesorul on January 25, 2014, 11:43:01 am

Looks so REAL !.  :-))
Can You reveal Your secret about how did You do that ?.  ok2
 
Looking forward to see them in the water , with all these improvements .  :-)
 
MARIUS

Title: Re: Engel Typhoon
Post by: thegrimreaper on January 29, 2014, 07:00:16 pm

new video Type R39`s now in place

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Pv3aFl7DhM&feature=youtu.be

Mark.

Title: Re: Engel Typhoon
Post by: nickyb on July 22, 2014, 06:12:47 pm

What a boat, well done