Model Boat Mayhem

The Shipyard ( Dry Dock ): Builds & Questions => Navy - Military - Battleships: => Topic started by: Steven.T on December 08, 2013, 04:28:47 pm

Title: 34" Crash Tender
Post by: Steven.T on December 08, 2013, 04:28:47 pm
Hi Guys,
Bought this of ebay the other week, thought I'd put some pictures on.
I believe it's an Aerokits model, single prop with a Johnson 600 motor powering it. Currently has a 6v Sealed Lead Acid battery although I'm looking to change this, going to try it on 7.2v then maybe 12v depending on performance. On 6v it went a decent pace, but just not quite enough  :-))
[size=78%]It currently is on 27mhz but I intend to buy another reciever for my Planet T5 and make it 2.4ghz.The speed controller is a M'troniks marine 15.[/size]


(http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt102/ste234/PC080021.jpg) (http://s602.photobucket.com/user/ste234/media/PC080021.jpg.html)


(http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt102/ste234/PC080016.jpg) (http://s602.photobucket.com/user/ste234/media/PC080016.jpg.html)


(http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt102/ste234/PC080019.jpg) (http://s602.photobucket.com/user/ste234/media/PC080019.jpg.html)


(http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt102/ste234/PC080018.jpg) (http://s602.photobucket.com/user/ste234/media/PC080018.jpg.html)


(http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt102/ste234/PC080013.jpg) (http://s602.photobucket.com/user/ste234/media/PC080013.jpg.html)


(http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt102/ste234/PC080015.jpg) (http://s602.photobucket.com/user/ste234/media/PC080015.jpg.html)


(http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt102/ste234/PC080014.jpg) (http://s602.photobucket.com/user/ste234/media/PC080014.jpg.html)


(http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt102/ste234/PC080012.jpg) (http://s602.photobucket.com/user/ste234/media/PC080012.jpg.html)


(http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt102/ste234/PC080006.jpg) (http://s602.photobucket.com/user/ste234/media/PC080006.jpg.html)


(http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt102/ste234/PC080002.jpg) (http://s602.photobucket.com/user/ste234/media/PC080002.jpg.html)


(http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt102/ste234/PC080004.jpg) (http://s602.photobucket.com/user/ste234/media/PC080004.jpg.html)


The mast at the back won't be staying, I intend on removing it and making a new one for the front as per the prototype.
I think I'm going to try and get hold of some decent looking monitors to go on it, theres only one fitted at the moment. And I don't think the little boat and crane will be staying, although I intend on making new cabin tops for the monitors, so I can have both if I wish!
Not too sure about the planked deck, as nice as it looks, I just don't know if it looks right, same goes for the spray rail.
The search light on the front looks like a Robbe one, it works, but isn't wired up, so I intend to do that aswell!
And need to source some decals for it, just to finish it off!


Any more ideas for improvements?
Cheers,
Steven
Title: Re: 34" Crash Tender
Post by: Steven.T on December 15, 2013, 04:40:53 pm
Had the boat running today, water was a little choppy with the wind, but it ran well.
Tried it on my 7.2v battery and she goes a fair speed, although I don't think weather conditions were particularity helping!
For some reason the rudder seems to be working in reverse, so right to go left, left to go right etc which got a bit confusing, think I can sort this on the transmitter switches though.
Anyway, I think I have decided to re-do the paint, and paint the spray rail aswell, it stands out too much on the water ( functionally it works great!). Still unsure what to do with the planked deck though...


Quick video, I apologise for the wind noise!:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfC0WEkGpC0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfC0WEkGpC0)


And some Pics:
(http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt102/ste234/PC150037.jpg) (http://s602.photobucket.com/user/ste234/media/PC150037.jpg.html)


(http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt102/ste234/PC150031.jpg) (http://s602.photobucket.com/user/ste234/media/PC150031.jpg.html)


(http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt102/ste234/PC150035.jpg) (http://s602.photobucket.com/user/ste234/media/PC150035.jpg.html)


(http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt102/ste234/PC150034.jpg) (http://s602.photobucket.com/user/ste234/media/PC150034.jpg.html)


(http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt102/ste234/PC150030.jpg) (http://s602.photobucket.com/user/ste234/media/PC150030.jpg.html)


(http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt102/ste234/PC150023.jpg) (http://s602.photobucket.com/user/ste234/media/PC150023.jpg.html)


Cheers!
Steven

Title: Re: 34" Crash Tender prop.
Post by: pompebled on December 15, 2013, 09:26:08 pm
Hi Steven,

If you like the way the boat runs and the prop was in the state shown in the picture, fix the bent blade and you'll find the boat runs even better.

Regards, Jan.
Title: Re: 34" Crash Tender
Post by: Steven.T on December 15, 2013, 10:01:41 pm
Hah! Well noticed Jan! I thought it was just the way it was, didn't even think to compare the two!
Will duly correct and see how it runs next time!
Thanks!
Steven
Title: Re: 34" Crash Tender
Post by: Steven.T on January 19, 2014, 09:41:58 pm
Well after having a disaster with the old prop (one blade snapped clean off!) I had to get a new prop. Whilst I was there I thought, well, I might aswell get a better motor...
Now going on the fact that Vintage model boats who now make a similar kit recommend a brushless motor and ESC, I found the same ones on HobbyKing for a lot cheaper, and well, it almost flies on 7.2v! The motor is a 1250kv outrunner.


(http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt102/ste234/P1190102.jpg) (http://s602.photobucket.com/user/ste234/media/P1190102.jpg.html)


(http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt102/ste234/P1190101.jpg) (http://s602.photobucket.com/user/ste234/media/P1190101.jpg.html)


(http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt102/ste234/P1190100.jpg) (http://s602.photobucket.com/user/ste234/media/P1190100.jpg.html)


(http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt102/ste234/P1190099.jpg) (http://s602.photobucket.com/user/ste234/media/P1190099.jpg.html)


And a quick video:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52XNI3YB--I&edit=vd


Cheers,
Steven
Title: Re: 34" Crash Tender
Post by: peter61_uk on January 19, 2014, 10:53:32 pm
Well after having a disaster with the old prop (one blade snapped clean off!) I had to get a new prop. Whilst I was there I thought, well, I might aswell get a better motor...
Now going on the fact that Vintage model boats who now make a similar kit recommend a brushless motor and ESC, I found the same ones on HobbyKing for a lot cheaper, and well, it almost flies on 7.2v! The motor is a 1250kv outrunner.


(http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt102/ste234/P1190102.jpg) (http://s602.photobucket.com/user/ste234/media/P1190102.jpg.html)


(http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt102/ste234/P1190101.jpg) (http://s602.photobucket.com/user/ste234/media/P1190101.jpg.html)


(http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt102/ste234/P1190100.jpg) (http://s602.photobucket.com/user/ste234/media/P1190100.jpg.html)


(http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt102/ste234/P1190099.jpg) (http://s602.photobucket.com/user/ste234/media/P1190099.jpg.html)


And a quick video:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52XNI3YB--I&edit=vd


Cheers,
Steven

Good result there Steven.  :-))

Title: Re: 34" Crash Tender
Post by: pompebled on January 20, 2014, 04:50:46 pm
Well after having a disaster with the old prop (one blade snapped clean off!)
Hi Steven,

I feel a bit guilty this happened..., I should have warned you the blades were soldered on and using pliers isn't the way to go, as you've noticed.

Using a hammer on a small anvil (or another hammer in the vice) is the way to go to 'unfold' a bent blade

Do you have a link to the motor and prop in question?
If you ran full throttle in the video, the hull is capable of more (don't know if the captain is comfortable with running beyond scale speed though...).

Regards, Jan.
Title: Re: 34" Crash Tender
Post by: Steven.T on January 20, 2014, 05:36:15 pm
Hello Jan,
I managed to straighten out the prop as you advised. It wasn't until the coupling became damaged I had to remove the propshaft, and whilst putting it back in with a new coupler, the blade snapped!


The motor I have got is this: http://hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewitem.asp?idproduct=29574


As for the Prop, I just used one the local model shop advised, I think it is this one: http://www.alwayshobbies.com/model-boats/running-gear/propellers/speed-propeller-35mm-2-blade-m4-threaded


I was running full throttle on the video, however the motor was only running off a 7.2v battery. The speed controller can take up to 13v (If I remember correctly!). A friend of mine has a 11v Lipo or whatever the nearest equivalent in LiPo terms is, so think I am going to try that next time!
Scale speed doesn't really bother me, I think it would be nice to have that little bit more speed available when I want it!
Thanks,
Steven
Title: Re: 34" Crash Tender
Post by: Dicky-P on January 20, 2014, 07:08:13 pm
Glad to see you have removed the crane and lifeboat, looks much better.  Are you fixing the fire jets and other accessories which can be bought from model slipway
Title: Re: 34" Crash Tender
Post by: Steven.T on January 20, 2014, 07:14:18 pm
Ordered the new fittings earlier today from model slipway  :-))
Title: Re: 34" Crash Tender
Post by: pompebled on January 20, 2014, 08:26:14 pm
Hi Steven,

With the motor running on 3S Lipo (11,1V) you're in for a treat, as 12.000 rpm under load is something entirely different from the sedate 8000 rpm on 6 cells NiMH (which also have a hard time delivering the current, making you go even slower).
Make sure the NiMH are warm from the charger when drawing considerable current, as NiMH tend to get damaged when drained heavily cold.
When you apply full throttle, make sure the rudder is straight and throttle down in turns to start with, it's too cold to swim...

The prop in the picture looks ugly, with all the flash on the outside edges, I hope yours looks a bit more civilized, with clean edges and a sharp trailing edge.

Trimming off the flash is best done with a thin blade (razor), as the plastic only gets mores scruffy when using sandpaper or a file.

I assume you've seen what 4S does to an 800KV outrunner in my MAS:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-igDcvLySEM&feature=youtu.be (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-igDcvLySEM&feature=youtu.be)
Granted, the prop is bigger...

Regards, Jan.
Title: Re: 34" Crash Tender
Post by: Steven.T on January 20, 2014, 10:26:14 pm
Cheers Jan.
Yes, I think it coud be fun on the 3s Lipo!
Actually, I was suprised at how long the NiMH battery lasted, it ran for a good 45 minutes, and that was at full pelt 95% of the time!


I will have to look at the Prop, see if it looks in good nick.


If anyone was wondering what the black thing is on the front of the boat, I bought one of those Keyfob spy camera things of Amazon. It seems quite good, and provided around 7 minutes of footage before the battery went flat in it!
Seeing as though I can't be bothered to edit the video files, if anyone is bored heres the full 7 minutes, a few close encounters with my Brothers toyish speed boat, oh, and the time stamp is wrong!  :-)) :
For some reason the video hasn't uploaded properly and seems to be juddering, I'll upload it again tomorrow and hope it comes out better!


Cheers,
Steven

Title: Re: 34" Crash Tender
Post by: pompebled on January 20, 2014, 10:41:33 pm
Hi Steven,

It's really nice how little current the brushless outrunners draw if you don't go overboard on the propsize isn't it?

I'm able to run my MAS with 9600mAh Lipo on board for more than two hours continuously in mixed running.

I have never depleted the batteries yet, I'm going to do some runs with a friend's telemetry set on board when the weather gets a bit warmer, I'll be able to tell you how long I can run full throttle then.

Opening the video nearly gave me a fit, as the volume was set for 'normal youtube watching', the pink noise at full blast was scary...

Regards, Jan.
Title: Re: 34" Crash Tender
Post by: Steven.T on January 20, 2014, 10:49:22 pm
Hi Jan, the video hasn't uploaded correctly for some reason. The original when I view it straight off the SD card is as smooth as a whistle, and the sound, well, I think I will take the video off because its gone terrible!
Title: Re: 34" Crash Tender
Post by: Steven.T on January 21, 2014, 07:16:39 pm
Right, After editing the video so it's only 4 mins long, It's now uploaded OK to Youtube, so it shouldn't blow your ears out now!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4llYAMB4Pk&feature=youtu.be (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4llYAMB4Pk&feature=youtu.be)




The other boat is my Brothers "toy" speed boat, only cost £10 from Netto years ago. It goes a decent speed, but the battery doesn't last long... especially after racing each other as you can see about half way through the video, I need a little more speed I think!
Title: Re: 34" Crash Tender
Post by: Steven.T on February 09, 2014, 10:18:54 pm
Had the boat running on my friends 3S lipo today, by heck it shifted! Once it got up to speed it was apparent there was some torque roll, not sure how to counteract this without going twin prop counter rotating, which I'm not intending on doing!


So, I've now decided I would like to run it off a 12v (or somewhere near that) battery. I'm unsure whether to stick with the NiMH's that I'm used to, or to change over to LiPO. I have the chargers and everything for NiMHs, but have never owned LiPO, so really I would like to stick with what I know, but theres a little voice in my head saying change to LiPO. I'm a bit unsure over how safe LiPO's are.


Anyone got any preferences on what's best?
Cheers,
Steven
Title: Re: 34" Crash Tender
Post by: pompebled on February 10, 2014, 05:12:10 pm
Hi Steven,

Running on 3S gives you more than 12.000 rpm under load, that's 1,5 times more than on 7,2V NiMH...
Add to that the more lineair output of the Lipo's and away you go.

To reduce the torque roll you'll have to change the prop to a smaller three blade, or compensate by shifting the weight in the boat to the opposite side, which looks daft when the boat doesn't run, or only moves slowly.

If you watch the video of my MAS, you'll see it also lists under prop torque when full throttle is applied, using a lot of rudderthrow when running this fast is not adviceable, as you may cause a spin that even can result in tiping the boat over...

I'm using Lipo's in all my boats (and transmitters) nowadays, treat them right (as you should every battery chemistry) and they are safe to use.

Regards, Jan.
Title: Re: 34" Crash Tender
Post by: Steven.T on February 11, 2014, 08:56:55 pm
Cheers Jan,
I'm still not totally convinced about these LiPo's. I have come across these LiFePo4 batteries a few times now, which are apparently safer and there are some 3s ones, which is 9.9v rather than the 11v of lipos at 3s. I was wondering, the 9.9v (so basically 10v for arguments sake) is only 1v short of a 3s Lipo, Is this going to make it noticeably slower? If anything, it might be enough so that the torque roll isn't as apparent?


Heres the battery I am looking at for reference...
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__37391__ZIPPY_Flightmax_4200mAh_3S1P_30C_LiFePo4_Pack_UK_Warehouse_.html


It's also lighter than my 7v NiMh, which is never a bad thing!


Cheers,
Steven
Title: Re: 34" Crash Tender
Post by: pompebled on February 12, 2014, 05:41:21 pm
Hi Steven,

LiFePo are even more resistant to abuse than Lipo's.

A fully charged LiFePo has 3,7V, so a 3S equals 11,1V where as a Lipo is 4,2V fully charged, 3S is 12,6V.
I doubt you'll notice the difference other than in a direct comparison.

I'm using Lipo's only because I have a number of them for use in my competition boats, using the ones that don't cut it in competition anymore (after one or two seasons), they still work very good in my scale applications.

Regards, Jan.
Title: Re: 34" Crash Tender
Post by: Steven.T on February 12, 2014, 08:45:15 pm
Great, Cheers Jan, I think I'm going to give the LifePo4 a shot, at least I can ease my mind about the safety!
Cheers,
Steven
Title: Re: 34" Crash Tender
Post by: Steven.T on February 13, 2014, 09:14:56 pm
Here's a quick (literally!) video if it running on the 3s Lipo on Sunday...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g4C9rKfPKLo&feature=youtu.be




Cheers,
Steven
Title: Re: 34" Crash Tender
Post by: pompebled on February 14, 2014, 05:22:14 pm
Hi Steven,

Nice, that's more like it!
Slightly over scale speed, but not ridiculously fast.
I like the running attitude with the nose slightly out of the water.

I bet if you record it in HD (or double speed) and play it back slower, it'll look like the real thing.

Have you seen the video of my MAS?
That's 'slightly' over scale speed...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-igDcvLySEM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-igDcvLySEM)

Regards, Jan.
Title: Re: 34" Crash Tender
Post by: Steven.T on February 14, 2014, 11:29:46 pm
Cheers Jan! Yeah It's a nice speed, it's still very controllable, whilst still knowing its got the extra oomph!
It does run nicely as you say, the nose lifts out at about half speed and very slowly raises until it's at top whack which is where it is in the video.


Yeah, I have watched your video a few times, very impressive turn of speed there!


I think after this weekend (hopefully running it on the new battery) I will start looking at the boat cosmetically. The fittings kit from Model Slipway has arrived (fair bit of weight there!). I'll need to make a mast somehow as this isn't included in the fittings kit. Also the cabin sides need rubbing down and spraying grey again. I think I'm going to spray the deck aswell, I'm not sure if I like it in the wooden finish it has. I think if I'm going to make the boat look realistic I might aswell do it...
Also the hull needs respraying both red and black.
Lastly, the Spray rails. These do seem rather on the large side, I understand these help the model to get up on the plane, but do they need to be as big as they are? They will be getting painted to match the hull anyway, but I can't help but feel they could be a but smaller...
Thats all for now again...
Cheers,
Steven
Title: Re: 34" Crash Tender
Post by: pompebled on February 14, 2014, 11:41:21 pm
Hi Steven,

They do look a bit on the large side, but when the do their job right (deflecting the spray), I would paint them first and see if that makes it look better.

Sprayrails need a certain size to be more than just ornamental, as the water isn't scaled down with the boat...

Regards, Jan.
Title: Re: 34" Crash Tender
Post by: Dicky-P on February 15, 2014, 10:40:16 am
Spray rails on mine are 1/8th square as per the design drawings. These work very well
Title: Re: 34" Crash Tender
Post by: Steven.T on February 15, 2014, 11:04:24 am
Yeah mine are a bit big then, they look about 6mm sq. when measured with a tape measure!

Title: Re: 34" Crash Tender
Post by: Circlip on February 15, 2014, 11:31:19 am
Certainly made a difference to one Crash Tender on here a couple of years ago. Addition allowed it to plane and stopped it digging in on corners. On photo five, the bottom outer edge of the rail looks to be radiused, it should have a sharp corner. Idea is to stop suction effect from water and if you look at the wake in photo one in reply #4, the water is stuck to the side at the rear about an inch up.
 
  Regards  Ian
Title: Re: 34" Crash Tender
Post by: Steven.T on February 15, 2014, 12:47:09 pm
I might just take a couple of mill of each face. To be honest I'm also thinking about taking them off and doing them again as both sides aren't the same, I.E. they both curve off at different places if that makes sense?
Title: Re: 34" Crash Tender
Post by: pompebled on February 15, 2014, 01:02:21 pm
they both curve off at different places if that makes sense?
No, not really.

And, though the original has the sprayrail curve up quite a lot, on the model you can get away with less curve (as the water isn't scaled down).

On your model the sprayrails run all the way to the transom, does the original have that too?
This should not be necessary, as long as the edges between bottom and sides are sharp, not rounded.
Check this out.

Ian has a valid point in the shape of the sprayrails; rounded edges allow the water to creep around them, as his observation of the picture in question proves.
The resulting drag is substantial and will affect the running attitude, speed and runtime.

Regards, Jan.
Title: Re: 34" Crash Tender
Post by: Circlip on February 15, 2014, 02:37:49 pm
Sorry to disagree Jan but the rails should go all the way back to the transom. Even with a sharp edge between the bottom skin and the side skin, without the step, there's still a chance of water creep. At slow speed it's going to happen anyway but as speed increases, more deflection occurs.
 
  Regards  Ian.
 
  And yes, all the Aerokits designs had the rails going back to the transom.
Title: Re: 34" Crash Tender
Post by: Steven.T on February 15, 2014, 03:59:52 pm
So does the lack of the straight edge at the back mean the water flows into the wake immediately?


I've taken some photos to explain what I mean by they both aren't equal. One side seems to dip below the waterline steeper and sooner than the other side.


(http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt102/ste234/P2150001.jpg) (http://s602.photobucket.com/user/ste234/media/P2150001.jpg.html)


(http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt102/ste234/P2150002.jpg) (http://s602.photobucket.com/user/ste234/media/P2150002.jpg.html)


(http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt102/ste234/P2150003.jpg) (http://s602.photobucket.com/user/ste234/media/P2150003.jpg.html)


(http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt102/ste234/P2150004.jpg) (http://s602.photobucket.com/user/ste234/media/P2150004.jpg.html)


(http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt102/ste234/P2150006.jpg) (http://s602.photobucket.com/user/ste234/media/P2150006.jpg.html)


(http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt102/ste234/P2150007.jpg) (http://s602.photobucket.com/user/ste234/media/P2150007.jpg.html)

Looking at the above photo, if you take note on one side of where the white waterline stripe ends, and compare it to the other, theres quite a difference!

I'm not sure if they are right, looking at the photos of the real ones here they look different to me
http://www.asrmcs-club.com/boatswebsite/gallery/93ff/ (http://www.asrmcs-club.com/boatswebsite/gallery/93ff/)


Cheers,
Steven
Title: Re: 34" Crash Tender
Post by: pompebled on February 15, 2014, 04:13:52 pm
Hi Steven,

The original seems to be more triangular in shape and less pronounced, it looks much better.

@Ian: I stand corrected.

Regards, Jan.
Title: Re: 34" Crash Tender
Post by: Circlip on February 15, 2014, 04:21:01 pm
"Theoretically" the inside bottom edge of the stringer should be on the corner of the junction between the side and bottom skins so it forms a ledge and is in effect an extension to the bottom skin.
 
  Might have been thinking front to back Jan? Front third doesn't do much when the hull is on the plane but looks odd if it isn't there?
 
   Regards   Ian.
Title: Re: 34" Crash Tender
Post by: Steven.T on February 15, 2014, 04:27:45 pm
"Theoretically" the inside bottom edge of the stringer should be on the corner of the junction between the side and bottom skins so it forms a ledge and is in effect an extension to the bottom skin.
 


You've lost me there Ian I'm afraid  :embarrassed:
Title: Re: 34" Crash Tender
Post by: Circlip on February 15, 2014, 04:34:41 pm
Been trying to find a picky on John "Bluebirds" masterclass of the Whale back but some of the photos are missing. Could be my server but they are probably at end of page one.
 
  http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,9758.0.html (http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,9758.0.html)
 
 
    Regards  Ian.
Title: Re: 34" Crash Tender
Post by: John W E on February 15, 2014, 04:48:33 pm
Hi try the RTTL build
http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,20758.50.html


 :-))


aye
john

Title: Re: 34" Crash Tender
Post by: georgo on February 22, 2014, 12:36:08 am
 :-)) [qlooks very nice..
uote author=Steven.T link=topic=45640.msg461842#msg461842 date=1386520127]
Hi Guys,
Bought this of ebay the other week, thought I'd put some pictures on.
I believe it's an Aerokits model, single prop with a Johnson 600 motor powering it. Currently has a 6v Sealed Lead Acid battery although I'm looking to change this, going to try it on 7.2v then maybe 12v depending on performance. On 6v it went a decent pace, but just not quite enough  :-))
[size=78%]It currently is on 27mhz but I intend to buy another reciever for my Planet T5 and make it 2.4ghz.The speed controller is a M'troniks marine 15.[/size]


(http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt102/ste234/PC080021.jpg) (http://s602.photobucket.com/user/ste234/media/PC080021.jpg.html)


(http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt102/ste234/PC080016.jpg) (http://s602.photobucket.com/user/ste234/media/PC080016.jpg.html)


(http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt102/ste234/PC080019.jpg) (http://s602.photobucket.com/user/ste234/media/PC080019.jpg.html)


(http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt102/ste234/PC080018.jpg) (http://s602.photobucket.com/user/ste234/media/PC080018.jpg.html)


(http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt102/ste234/PC080013.jpg) (http://s602.photobucket.com/user/ste234/media/PC080013.jpg.html)


(http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt102/ste234/PC080015.jpg) (http://s602.photobucket.com/user/ste234/media/PC080015.jpg.html)


(http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt102/ste234/PC080014.jpg) (http://s602.photobucket.com/user/ste234/media/PC080014.jpg.html)


(http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt102/ste234/PC080012.jpg) (http://s602.photobucket.com/user/ste234/media/PC080012.jpg.html)


(http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt102/ste234/PC080006.jpg) (http://s602.photobucket.com/user/ste234/media/PC080006.jpg.html)


(http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt102/ste234/PC080002.jpg) (http://s602.photobucket.com/user/ste234/media/PC080002.jpg.html)


(http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt102/ste234/PC080004.jpg) (http://s602.photobucket.com/user/ste234/media/PC080004.jpg.html)


The mast at the back won't be staying, I intend on removing it and making a new one for the front as per the prototype.
I think I'm going to try and get hold of some decent looking monitors to go on it, theres only one fitted at the moment. And I don't think the little boat and crane will be staying, although I intend on making new cabin tops for the monitors, so I can have both if I wish!
Not too sure about the planked deck, as nice as it looks, I just don't know if it looks right, same goes for the spray rail.
The search light on the front looks like a Robbe one, it works, but isn't wired up, so I intend to do that aswell!
And need to source some decals for it, just to finish it off!


Any more ideas for improvements?
Cheers,
Steven
Title: Re: 34" Crash Tender
Post by: pompebled on February 22, 2014, 10:12:38 am
:-)) looks very nice..
Hi Geordo,

If you only wanted to say you like the boat, as stated above, would you mind editing your post by removing the quoute of the entire opening post?
Things like this rather mess up this tidy thread...
Thanks.

Regards, Jan.
Title: Re: 34" Crash Tender
Post by: Tug-Kenny RIP on February 22, 2014, 11:04:58 am

I agree.

Geordo.  When you insert a QUOTE to your mail. could you scroll a few lines below the   /quote  sign.

This will start your letter after a clear gap in the print.

Hope this helps

ken







Title: Re: 34" Crash Tender
Post by: Steven.T on February 22, 2014, 01:51:20 pm
Is a moderator not able to edit the post just to make life easier? I know it means a Mod has to do something but still  :police:
Title: Re: 34" Crash Tender
Post by: Tug-Kenny RIP on February 22, 2014, 09:44:18 pm

I have been doing so ............................................... but it got a bit much.



ken



Title: Re: 34" Crash Tender
Post by: red181 on February 28, 2014, 10:46:44 pm
Hi Steven,

these hulls don't handle very well at speed, even though they go on the plane quite easily, they are rather shallow in the water, and quite narrow. Looking at your pics, the rails are very big, however are in the correct place. without them, it will struggle to go on the plane, and in turns will roll quite severely, resulting in a common problem with these boats that the nose almost submarines, the rudder adding to the problem as it acts like a brake, making the rear rise and the front dip (I speak with experience here!).

It looks like the original builder suffered these problems, as the unpainted rails have probably been added later (otherwise they would have been painted?) Personally(but depending on how accurate you want the boat to be) I would reduce the size of the rails, but be warned, the particular odd shape of the hull makes it a difficult and fiddly job to refit new rails. Perhaps just sand those down a bit, or leave alone!. Make sure you keep the profile square, if rounded they don't work aswell. Whilst this is the bigger brother, the principles are the same, there might be some useful info in my recent build. Any questions, please ask!

http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,39278.0.html

Paul
Title: Re: 34" Crash Tender
Post by: red181 on February 28, 2014, 10:57:18 pm
take a look
Title: Re: 34" Crash Tender
Post by: Martin (Admin) on February 28, 2014, 11:41:36 pm

Wow, never seen these photos before and I thought I had them all!

Title: Re: 34" Crash Tender
Post by: red181 on February 28, 2014, 11:55:42 pm
I have secrets!!! :police:
Title: Re: 34" Crash Tender
Post by: Steven.T on May 04, 2014, 04:00:06 pm
Well, this boat has been in the dry dock for a while now. I bought a fittings kit from Mod Slip (which are quite heavy!) so decided I should really make a start on making the boat mine, so to speak. I intend on making it appear more like the real thing. I started by taking the varnish right off the deck and smoothing down, ready for the grey paint.
Whilst I was there, I decided to rub down the hull and re-spray that. However... Whilst rubbing the hull down, I noticed something which, well, doesn't fill me with confidence...


Basically, the join between the two panels on one side of the hull aout 1/4 of the way back from the bow, has split, and theres quite a large gap. Now, I had noticed there was water getting inside the hull, but I put this down to water coming over the back of the boat. Obviously, that isn't the case. So I'm quite glad I did decide to rub the paintwork down, rather than find out after I had finished it! I decided to keep taking layer upon layer of paint off, got past a lot of filler! Although you can't see it in this photo, the crack actually runs most the way across the photo, you can see it clearer just near the first knot in the wood:




(http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt102/ste234/IMAG1975.jpg) (http://s602.photobucket.com/user/ste234/media/IMAG1975.jpg.html)


I was going to use some evostick nail and seal on this, but that allows a flexible joint. I suspect it needs to be a solid join, so I think I'll fill it with epoxy to get rid of the gap, then smooth it out with filler.


Also, there is a lot of damage to the bow, underneath the water line. I suspect this is where at my local lake, the boat hits the edge (the edge is about level with the water). I will probably use filler here and I'm considering a thin strip of metal over the top to take the damage in future, rather than the wood itself!


(http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt102/ste234/IMAG1978.jpg) (http://s602.photobucket.com/user/ste234/media/IMAG1978.jpg.html)


That's all for now, more when I get back into the garage!
If anyone has any ideas of a better way to solve the above problems, please shout up, I'd rather think about it now than after I have done it!  :-))


Cheers,
Steven







Title: Re: 34" Crash Tender
Post by: pompebled on May 04, 2014, 04:19:38 pm
Hi Steven,

Here's where a layer of epoxy and glasscloth is always better than just paint.
On my MAS (and other wooden hulls) the outside is covered with a layer of glasscloth and epoxy and the inside is covered with epoxy resin.
This way there's no chance of water getting to the wood, causung the wood to swell up and crack at the seams.

If you want to do this on your boat, you need to sand dow to the bare wood, to get the best result.

If you don't fancy that, just glass and epoxy over the leaky seam is an option, but I would treat the whole seam all around the boat, sanding down to the bare wood.

Regards, Jan.

Title: Re: 34" Crash Tender
Post by: Steven.T on May 05, 2014, 10:16:19 am
Hi Jan, The epoxy and glass cloth seems like a sound idea. I've been thinking about it, and I've decided that I may aswell take all the paint off the hull. At least I can ease my mind that if there is any further problems, I can address them now rather than after I've finished all the work...
Think I'll have to go and buy some nitromors for this!
Cheers,
Steven
Title: Re: 34" Crash Tender
Post by: red181 on May 05, 2014, 01:59:22 pm
don't use nitromors, trust me on this one, fairy power spray, I jest you not, its superb, and wont have all the after effects of nitrmors, the paint will easily scrape off.

With regards to glassing the hull, get light cloth from deluxe materials, and don't use thick heavy stuff from halfrauds, its way too much like hard work.
Get it back to wood. Don't forget, if you want authentic finish on the deck, its a none slip finish, so you don't need a perfect finish on the decks, just the hull sides. Also, stand it on its nose, and pour some resin in, this will fill any holes ( masking tape on outside to stop it just trickling out).

Pull those spray rails off first, you need new ones, they need to be square profile, over time, and many paint jobs, they get rounded, and the early versions where not big enough. This hull does not have the best handling characteristics and has a tendency to roll, new spray rails will cure this. I have seen so many of these boats finished, only to be cobbled up as they handle poor at speed. Have a look at my build, there is a lot of glassing info there, and info about the spray rails. Its the 4 footer, but the concept is the same whichever size it is,, I have both sizes! Any questions, just ask,

http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,39278.0.html

Paul
Title: Re: 34" Crash Tender
Post by: Steven.T on May 05, 2014, 07:52:04 pm
Cheers Paul, I'll give the power spray a try  :-))  If I can get mine looking half as good as yours does I'll be happy!


As for the glass cloth and epoxy, was this the stuff, the aeropoxy (BD1), and which Cloth did you use? There seems to be a variety of sizes and weights but I'm not sure which is most suitable:
http://www.deluxematerials.co.uk/pages/building.htm
(About 3/4 down the page)


Cheers,
Steven
Title: Re: 34" Crash Tender
Post by: red181 on May 05, 2014, 11:25:23 pm
just realised I have repeated myself, sorry!

I did use the cloth, but cant remember what weight, I am sure its pictured in the build log. I used zpoxy resin, was a bit cheaper, but not much, got to work pretty fast doing it, another pair of hands will be invaluable, you need to enlist some help as the cloth can drag easily when you are spreading the resin.

When done, and rubbed down, which is soooo boring, then put the spray rails on. I didn't do the inside like Jan did, I was thinking the wood needed to breathe,. just used ronseal satin varnish for appearance sake. I made the spray rails from plastic strip, gently heated so it was easier to shape.

Stay away from that damned platicote rattle can paint, I have had so many problems with it over various builds, its just as cheap to go to a specialist and get it mixed, then you have the same brand undercoat, primer, top coats and lacquer :-))
Title: Re: 34" Crash Tender
Post by: Steven.T on May 11, 2014, 08:06:00 pm
Popped into the local supermarket today and picked the fairy power spray up.Best bit of advice I think I've ever been given! I left it a couple of hours whilst I went to my Grandparents for tea, came back and it practically peeled off! Needs another crack at it yet, I think the previous guy painted over the old paint where he hadn't repaired it, so there's a lot of layers!


I'll get the resin and cloth ordered this week, might even get it put on at the weekend if I get time!


Also, whilst I was at the engineering show at Harrogate yesterday, I picked up some 0.4mm brass strip. The intention is to put this down the front edge of the bow, as at the local lake the water is level with the concrete edge, so when the boat comes in, the bow catches the waters edge, and damages the wood. Idea is the brass will take the bulk of any damage and save the wood underneath.


More news when I get the rest of this paint off, hopefully it will be fairly intact underneath!
Cheers,
Steven
Title: Re: 34" Crash Tender
Post by: Steven.T on May 18, 2014, 09:58:15 pm
Well the vast majority of the paint is off, only a couple tiny fleks left on. I swear I've been taking the original paint off...



There was an awful lot of filler on the hull, I don't really know what for, but I've scraped most of it off, and there was no obvious reasons for it. There was a lot around the keel, I think he had tried to build it up and smooth it out, I've scraped most of that off now aswell...
Whilst scraping the paint off, I noticed the transom panel was looking a little loose aswell. Also, where I have been using the power spray, the red paint has seeped through inside the hull, confirming it was definitely leaking! I'm glad I made the decision to strip it all back! I'm going to dribble some wood glue in the gaps, just a bit of peace of mind more than anything!


I've taken the old propshaft out aswell, I suspect it was the original one from the old I.C engines, it wasn't exactly straight either!


Just ordered the glass cloth and epoxy, so I should start making a bit of progress again shortly. One question, do I need to put some epoxy onto the wood, then apply the cloth, then epoxy again over the top?
It was a bit boring at the lake today with just my slow little frigate to play with
 :D


Cheers,
Steven


Title: Re: 34" Crash Tender
Post by: red181 on May 19, 2014, 08:09:14 pm
yeah put epoxy on with some sort of spatula (after dry run with cloth) then cloth over it, then epoxy over cloth. Don't use loads, and keep working it before it starts to cure, get the cloth smoothed out flat, no bubblers or lumps etc.. Don't worry about overhanging bits, when dry, its brittle, just file off, no need to cut it, this way it falls off real easy.

Some say First coat before cloth isn't necessary, as the epoxy soaks through the cloth anyway, so its up to you really. Have a practise run on some scrap wood, see how it goes :-)) 
Title: Re: 34" Crash Tender
Post by: Steven.T on May 26, 2014, 05:13:39 pm
Well, the cloth and epoxy is on and curing, went on quite well actually! Should be able to give it a light sanding later this week, and hopefully I can at least start using it again, and finish it off when I can!
Cheers,
Steven
Title: Re: 34" Crash Tender
Post by: Steven.T on June 07, 2014, 02:49:32 pm
Been slow at doing this again! The epoxy didn't go on as evenly as I thought it looked, so it's taking quite a bit of sanding to get rid of some of the little lumps and ridges!

Next question, whats best to stick the spray rails on with to the epoxy? Just more epoxy?


Cheers,
Steven
Title: Re: 34" Crash Tender
Post by: chas on June 07, 2014, 11:08:51 pm
Hi Steven, I've just been re reading your thread, very interesting it is too. To answer your question I would use epoxy as you suggest. Going back to the torque roll problem, you could try making a trim strip. This is just a triangle of wood or plastic about 25 mm long. You stick it about two thirds of the way down the hull on the lower side. This gives a bit of lift when running and levels the boat. Don't put it near the stern, it will muck up the handling. Experiment on the water by fastening one on with double sided tape until you get it right then glue and paint it properly. I'm guessing you will only need a mm or two at the trailing edge. Good luck
Charlie.
Title: Re: 34" Crash Tender
Post by: red181 on June 07, 2014, 11:39:14 pm
I used plastic square strip for the spray rails, heated up a bit and it bends easier than wood. Small pins to hold in place, and superglue to locate them. Once secured, remove the pins, and a bit of superglue to fill the pin holes, then no need to do more rubbing down if you use epoxy. I suppose you could do wood the same way, but it will be harder to bend at the front. Don't lose the square profile if cleaning them up by rubbing down, the square profile helps with handling and stop the boats rolling on turns. This narrow shallow hull needs all the help it can get! :-))
Title: Re: 34" Crash Tender
Post by: Steven.T on June 08, 2014, 05:38:20 pm
Cheers guys, great help as usual  :-))


As I've been feeling a bit under the weather the past couple of days, rather than doing the spray rails or rubbing down the hull more I decided to make a start painting the little detail bits and making the mast, which was easier than I thought...


(http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt102/ste234/IMAG2017.jpg) (http://s602.photobucket.com/user/ste234/media/IMAG2017.jpg.html)


Cheers,
Steven
Title: Re: 34" Crash Tender
Post by: Steven.T on June 22, 2014, 04:13:12 pm
Well, with the epoxy all rubbed down, and the spray rails finally added, I decided before I do any more work on the boat I should put all the gear back in and take it to the lake.


It ran absolutely great, spray rails working overtime, the speed seemed a little faster (probably due to only having bare essentials on board).
Then all of a sudden it stopped. Typical. But anyway it drifted back in, I found the motor torque had dislodged the motor mount, lifted the motor and pulled the coupling apart. A quick tighten up of the mount screws and re-fix the coupler and off it went again.
The battery didn't seem to last long, but it was going full pelt most of the time.
The motor end of the prop tube is getting very warm, Whilst watching it and revving the motor it was obvious the tube was vibrating, as there is nothing securing it at the end, I think a bit of epoxy to hold it still should sort this, followed by a touch more grease in the shaft.
There does seem to be some water finding it's way in still, I think it's coming up around the rudder tube somehow, shouldn't be much of an issue to sort out!


Some quick photos to prove it got wet!


(http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt102/ste234/684622a0-5d30-406f-b188-90834e3fae62.jpg) (http://s602.photobucket.com/user/ste234/media/684622a0-5d30-406f-b188-90834e3fae62.jpg.html)


(http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt102/ste234/P6220472.jpg) (http://s602.photobucket.com/user/ste234/media/P6220472.jpg.html)


Cheers,
Steven  :-))
Title: Re: 34" Crash Tender
Post by: Steven.T on July 20, 2014, 02:33:30 pm
Not had an awful lot of progress on this recently.
I noticed at the lake the other week there was a bit of water in the rear compartment. At first I thought it could just be spray coming in from over the sides, but whilst running the boat i noticed there wasn't really any spray...
So, With the hull being epoxied and sealed, I thought the only options could be the rudder tube or propshaft. Whilst holding the boat in the water and increasing the throttle, I could see water dripping out the top of the rudder post. A bit of silicone tube and some more grease seemed to stop this.
Until at the lake today, there seemed to be more water then ever. More than was coming up the rudder post before. Turns out I think it's leaking from along the keel line on the outside, where the epoxy has ran away before it dried and the cloth has eventually give way, letting water up to the wood again, letting the water in. Sealed it off with some more epoxy this afternoon so will see how it goes!
Should be painting it soon aswell, please I found this before hand though!
Cheers,
Steven
Title: Re: 34" Crash Tender
Post by: Steven.T on December 06, 2014, 12:05:41 am
Well, it's been a while since an update! After a bit more leaking, I think I have it solved. Just applied some more epoxy to the join areas on the hull last weekend, gave it a bathtub trial and it stayed bone dry, off to the lake this weekend to make sure it is definitely sealed! I think when rubbing the epoxy down I have taken too much off in places. Lesson learnt for next time!
Title: Re: 34" Crash Tender
Post by: ballastanksian on December 07, 2014, 03:02:46 pm
Good luck Stephen! Having learnt from friends in the Model Engineering fraternity, I have often wondered wether to buy a 'project' to complete but am aware, as previously mentioned, that you often buy someone else's problems to solve. That said, your electronics have not been damaged by water, the basic hull has been built and you get the fun of personalising the model, so it isn't all gloom.

It is sad that some things on ebay that first look like gems end up being Dogs. The zoom app on the site is a god send to see some problems before bidding!

Your mast looks good by the way. I look forward to making bits like this in the coming months.
Title: Re: 34" Crash Tender
Post by: Steven.T on December 07, 2014, 03:45:49 pm
Cheers! To be honest this hasn't put me off buying fairly new second hand models as such, I think part of this ones problems is the age of it! Got a few coats of primer on now, soon be time for the top coats!
Steven
Title: Re: 34" Crash Tender
Post by: ballastanksian on December 07, 2014, 04:49:00 pm
Good show! Nearly there.