Model Boat Mayhem

The Shipyard ( Dry Dock ): Builds & Questions => Working Vessels => Topic started by: peter61_uk on January 02, 2014, 10:42:06 pm

Title: OCCRE "Ulises" Build.
Post by: peter61_uk on January 02, 2014, 10:42:06 pm
Hi All,

The kit arrived today. I'm really looking forward to bashing this together. It'll be my first attempt in wood, part from a couple of balsa kits. Mainly I've built plastic scale.........

 I have a bulding board and all the various frame supports and keel clamp blocks to keep it all nice and square. Courtesy of the joiners shop in the unit next store to us at work. Proper good lads.

I spent the evening checking off the PIL against what's in the box (took bl**dy ages), and I think it's all accounted for.

So I'm good to go tomorrow night. I'll post up some photos along the way and updates on any modifications, problems and tantrums. Pretty much it'll be an "out of the box" build but I think I might alter a few things. I don't plan on micro detailing it but enough detail to make it easy on the eye......... I can't find much on the internet regarding whether or not this is a model of an actual tug, so I think it's more representative of a type of the early 20th century ocean going steam tugs........Unless someone knows different.So that leaves some room for "artistic Licence.

Title: Re: OCCRE "Ulises" Build.
Post by: Martin (Admin) on January 03, 2014, 12:41:10 pm
 
Couple of hours since your post.... is it ready for painting yet?!  %)
Title: Re: OCCRE "Ulises" Build.
Post by: peter61_uk on January 03, 2014, 01:15:06 pm

Couple of hours since your post.... is it ready for painting yet?!  %)
I put the last coat on before I set off for work this morning ........... I'll sort the rigging out when I get home.
Title: Re: OCCRE "Ulises" Build.
Post by: peter61_uk on January 03, 2014, 01:41:01 pm
Ok First question .......... I know it's a way off but. I'm wondering about a motor for this thing. I have a:
 
MULTIPLEX PERMAX 600 BRUSHED MOTOR
With a 3:1 Gearbox (Apparently puts out 8000 RPM
 
So I'm wondering if that'll do the job???? Either with or without the gearbox ???

The Hull spec when done is:  Length: 830mm x 180mm Beam. - Prop Size is 40mm
 
Also, and I have no idea, What ESC rating should I have ???? The motor apprently needs 7.2 Volts...... and while we are on batteries. Should I use a sealed lead acid / nicad or Lipo ?????
 
(I think that's more than one question???)

 
Title: Re: OCCRE "Ulises" Build.
Post by: Tug-Kenny RIP on January 03, 2014, 04:49:27 pm

I would estimate that 15 amp  ESC  would be enough for this set up.   Don't forget a fuse in between it and the battery.

For a tug it's always nice to have some power so I would go the lead acid route.  As these come in 6 or 12 volts, you could try the lower one first on the motor and see how fast it goes.  It might be too slow with the gearbox connected. I would also check for room under the hull for a larger propeller as this will give her a better push through the water for lower revs.

Best of luck with your build

Ken

 
Title: Re: OCCRE "Ulises" Build.
Post by: peter61_uk on January 03, 2014, 07:53:39 pm
I would estimate that 15 amp  ESC  would be enough for this set up.   Don't forget a fuse in between it and the battery.

For a tug it's always nice to have some power so I would go the lead acid route.  As these come in 6 or 12 volts, you could try the lower one first on the motor and see how fast it goes.  It might be too slow with the gearbox connected. I would also check for room under the hull for a larger propeller as this will give her a better push through the water for lower revs.

Best of luck with your build

Ken 

Thanks Ken .......... So would I be better off just dumping the gearbox and using the 600 motor as a direct drive with 6v ????? As for the prop I think there is going to be room for a 50mm or maybe even 55mm


Title: Re: OCCRE "Ulises" Build.
Post by: Tug-Kenny RIP on January 03, 2014, 10:16:10 pm

Yes indeed.  A straight motor running a 50mm prop would push her through the water OK.  Mind you, on 12 volts you can cruise for hours.     :}
Title: Re: OCCRE "Ulises" Build.
Post by: peter61_uk on January 03, 2014, 10:43:48 pm
Would 12v not be too hefty for the motor rated for 7.2v ?

Title: Re: OCCRE "Ulises" Build.
Post by: Tug-Kenny RIP on January 04, 2014, 10:59:20 am

I would hesitate to try on 12 volts.  :embarrassed:   I was thinking of another motor as they are not that expensive.  There are plenty around that size for under a tenner.

Me and Stavros like the 900 range for tug power and silent running.   %)

Cheers

Ken



Title: Re: OCCRE "Ulises" Build.
Post by: peter61_uk on January 04, 2014, 06:44:31 pm
I would hesitate to try on 12 volts.  :embarrassed:   I was thinking of another motor as they are not that expensive.  There are plenty around that size for under a tenner.

Me and Stavros like the 900 range for tug power and silent running.   %)

Cheers

Ken

Thanks Ken ......... I'll do some shopping.
Title: Re: OCCRE "Ulises" Build.
Post by: John W E on January 04, 2014, 07:07:03 pm
hi there Peter
 
ACTion used to do a motor - 555 - and this was 12 volt - I use it on 7.2 to drive a 4 blade 50 mm diameter prop and it pushes the tug along quite well.
 
I believe there are other sources of the 555 motor if Component Shop doesnt have one - I do know RS stock it.
 
I will post a link to a tug which I built a while ago - it's slightly smaller but, as I say, it has an ACTion speed controller in it.
http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,27894.0.html (http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,27894.0.html)
aye
 
John
 
 
Title: Re: OCCRE "Ulises" Build.
Post by: peter61_uk on January 04, 2014, 07:10:09 pm
I've got the false keel together, reinforced the stern, fitted a couple of formers in the bow and cleaned up the rest of the formers.......... and now she is in dry dock.
Title: Re: OCCRE "Ulises" Build.
Post by: peter61_uk on January 04, 2014, 07:24:15 pm
hi there Peter
 
ACTion used to do a motor - 555 - and this was 12 volt - I use it on 7.2 to drive a 4 blade 50 mm diameter prop and it pushes the tug along quite well.
 
I believe there are other sources of the 555 motor if Component Shop doesnt have one - I do know RS stock it.
 
I will post a link to a tug which I built a while ago - it's slightly smaller but, as I say, it has an ACTion speed controller in it.
http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,27894.0.html (http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,27894.0.html)

aye
 
John

Thanks John ......... Now I'm a bit confused (it's difficult going through life confused, but I'm kind of used to it now) ...... If I can get a 7.2 volt NiCad then that'll run the 600 motor I have as that is rated at 7.2v ????? and put a 50mm prop on ???? .......... or is the 600 motor junk now ??? ............

or am I missing something here ???

......... and if I can run the 600 motor on a 7.2 NiCad then how long would it run on the water ???

I have an account with RS Components, tried their website but it's down for maintenance at the moment .......
Title: Re: OCCRE "Ulises" Build.
Post by: Mark T on January 04, 2014, 08:47:03 pm
Hi Peter good to see you build is underway  :-))


The way I see your motor issue is that you are going to spend a very long time and put a lot of effort into your build


Personally I would get yourself a decent 12v motor as suggested.  Also you may need quite a lot of ballast to get your boat to float correctly on the waterline which could be partly offset by a heavy 12v battery.  Obviously you won't know this until much later in your build but you can relax knowing that you have decent motor which is more than capable and you have opened different battery options too
Title: Re: OCCRE "Ulises" Build.
Post by: peter61_uk on January 04, 2014, 09:17:19 pm
Hi Peter good to see you build is underway  :-))


The way I see your motor issue is that you are going to spend a very long time and put a lot of effort into your build


Personally I would get yourself a decent 12v motor as suggested.  Also you may need quite a lot of ballast to get your boat to float correctly on the waterline which could be partly offset by a heavy 12v battery.  Obviously you won't know this until much later in your build but you can relax knowing that you have decent motor which is more than capable and you have opened different battery options too

Thanks Mark
I apologise for being a bit of a "plank here" but this is new ground for me.........

I just did a search and found this on "Evilbay" .........

Johnson 600 size 
3 - pole electric motor with integral cooling fan.
Two flux rings offering high torque motor.

Originally specified for Black and Decker power tools, these motors are of the highest quality and recognised as one of the most useful model motors currently on the market. Very popular for model boats and with suitable gearbox for electric flying models.

Suitable for 6 - 12 volt applications.
No Load speeds approx.

4.8V 1.7A 8500 RPM
6V 1.9A 12000 RPM
7.2V 1.9A 13500 RPM
9V 2A  20000 RPM

Dimensions: L65mm, D36mm, Shaft diameter 3.2mm Off load Current: 1.57A

It is £ 4.99 including delivery ............ Will that do the job ????
Title: Re: OCCRE "Ulises" Build.
Post by: Mark T on January 04, 2014, 09:26:37 pm
What I did was phone Westbourne Models and told them what I was building.  They then supplied the appropriate motors.  This way you will always have someone to go back to should you have any issues unlike Ebay.  Better to buy right the first time  O0
Title: Re: OCCRE "Ulises" Build.
Post by: John W E on January 04, 2014, 10:28:16 pm
hi there
 
You need a motor which will give you an rpm of between 8,000 to about 15,000 - that Johnson motor revs far too fast - I have 2 of them in an RAF Launch driving 35 mm props on 7.2 volts and it makes the RAF Launch plane, that 555 motor which I mentioned is a 12 volt motor.  If you check the specs, I thinks its about 13,000 on 12 volt.
 
aye
 
john
Title: Re: OCCRE "Ulises" Build.
Post by: peter61_uk on January 05, 2014, 08:37:40 pm
Thanks to All............ I think I understand the motor / Battery thing.......... Now I have a question about propellers ??? THe kit comes with a plastic prop ( 3 blade 45 mm) ......... We have established that maybe a 50mm prop would be good/ I was looking on the Westbourne models website at brass props and, .......... We have type A, C and D type props ......... 3 or 4 Blade ????

So which type do I go with ????

Title: Re: OCCRE "Ulises" Build.
Post by: peter61_uk on January 07, 2014, 10:18:31 pm
I have all the frames in now and I've added a few reinforcing fillets here and there. I've done loads of measuring and I'm confident I have a true and square hull form......... More by luck than anything so it's a bit of a relief. I've dry fitted the deck and that all lines up with the locating tabs so I reckon that's a major result  :D

Next up (and I know it's out of sync with the build instructions, but it's easier done before the planking) I'm going to dry fit the prop shaft, motor and mount. Just to make sure it all lines up and a bit of  fabrication forward as a base for stowing the radio gear and battery.
Title: Re: OCCRE "Ulises" Build.
Post by: peter61_uk on January 12, 2014, 05:16:16 pm
I've epoxied the four screws into the motor mount so I have four studs to bolt the alloy mount to.......... The mount is in and the motor aligns nicely with the propshaft .........

Just started on the hull planking  :-)) ............ This might take a while.  {:-{
Title: Re: OCCRE "Ulises" Build.
Post by: peter61_uk on January 13, 2014, 10:19:01 pm
I've started the planking on the hull ............ I have four rows on each side coming up from the Gunwales ........ So far, it's been fairly easy (if a little tedious). But I can't help the nagging feeling that I'm doing something terribly wrong  {:-{
Title: Re: OCCRE "Ulises" Build.
Post by: peter61_uk on January 16, 2014, 09:00:13 pm
I have 4 rows now from the keel ............ and four from the Gunwales. So now I'll start working toward each other. It's a bit of a "hatchet Job" at the bow right now. I'll see what it looks like when its trimmed and shaped. I might end up chopping them off flush with the first bulkhead former and putting two balsa blocks in and shape them..... We'll see.
Title: Re: OCCRE "Ulises" Build.
Post by: peter61_uk on January 19, 2014, 07:51:26 pm
The planking is coming along ......... Starting to see some progress now.

Title: Re: OCCRE "Ulises" Build.
Post by: peter61_uk on January 20, 2014, 05:57:31 pm
I've finished the planking ......... and ground off the heads of the pins on one side so far with a dremel.............. After I do the pins on the other side I'll leave it a for a day or two to led everything harden off .......... and then a lot of tidying up and sanding.
Title: Re: OCCRE "Ulises" Build.
Post by: peter61_uk on January 21, 2014, 09:25:50 pm
As 'er indoors is doing much complaining about the noise while I was trying to finish grinding off the brass pin heads with the Dremel.......... I started on fitting out the inside. I already have the motor mount in place so I put the motor back in and have fashioned a servo mount for the rudder operation. To Starboard and just forward of the motor. The servo mount on the plan is aft of the motor but I reckon it's a stupid place to site it as there is zero clearance from the deckhead and it would foul on the gearbox anyway..... So I've moved it. I don't have the rudder post in yet but I clamped the horn where it will be .......... I'm going to run a length of Bowden cable for the rudder actuation........ The speed controller will be on the port side directly opposite the servo.......... The receiver will be well forward of these so I should get any interference from them. .......... I guess normal service on the hull preparation will have to wait now until Saturday.
Title: Re: OCCRE "Ulises" Build.
Post by: peter61_uk on January 21, 2014, 10:29:15 pm
A couple of photos of my evening's endeavours with a servo mount............. The ESC will go where the blue Robbe card is placed. I hope it isn't going to be too close to the motor and cause some kind of interference ?????
Title: Re: OCCRE "Ulises" Build.
Post by: peter61_uk on January 25, 2014, 09:27:08 pm
I've been busy working on fitting out the interior.............. The original (according to the destructions) set up for the rudder was a bit naff ......... The servo mount was aft of the motor and operated the rudder with a rather untidy "bent piece of wire????  I had to move te servo anyway as it fouled on the gearbox........... So I had a rethink on the whole setup. I moved the servo forward and to starboard of the motor and mounted it vertically as opposed to the original horizontal position......... Next a "Bowden cable. Drilled the top of the formers and epoxied that in place........ The original tiller arm is a bit of a flimsy affair Bottom one in the pic) so I replaced it with a servo arm, drilled ot to accept the locking collar and grub screw........ The Bowden cable works well. Runs easily and freely in the tube, will give plenty of steerage from a lot of rudder angle..........and looks a lot tidier than a bent piece of wire.

I also now have a mount for the Speed controller (which I'll fix to using self adhesive Velcro)........... a mount for the receiver (Velcro again) ........ and the 6v lead acid battery fits in forward...... it's a bit of a squeeze and has to go in at "a jaunty angle"......... Bit it fits and that's all I need.

......Ao now I can carry on with the hull.
Title: Re: OCCRE "Ulises" Build.
Post by: derekwarner on January 26, 2014, 05:46:19 am
Hullo Peter.........many kits are understandably made to a price  O0

However many builders see certain attributes that could be installed or modified to provide a more reliable or better design build

Bowden cables is such rudder applications may be an improvement.......however even running in a nylon cased tube.....if it is a true cable construction is subjected to PUSH-PULL forces which by consideration is not really conducive to long term life <*< [stranded wire is designed to be used in tension..........not in compression]

However two Bowden cables....one on either side of the balanced rudder attachment>>>>>>to the servo arm balanced attachment ...when adjusted is a balanced mechanical element  :-)) .....Derek   

 
Title: Re: OCCRE "Ulises" Build.
Post by: peter61_uk on January 26, 2014, 12:20:45 pm
Hi Derek............ Thanks for your post. This whole build is a bit of a learning curve for me..........

The cable is a fairly rigid outer with very little friction.......... The inner cable appears to be "plaited rather than stranded........... I can run a second cable without too much difficult and did consider it. But haven't done so yet as it didn't seem necessary as we are looking at a low speed tug here as opposed to a high performance race boat ................. But, if it's a "must do" I'll run a second cable'

Title: Re: OCCRE "Ulises" Build.
Post by: Circlip on January 26, 2014, 12:22:36 pm
What Derek is advocating is called a closed loop system over here or Pull Pull in the Western colonies. Easy to fit at building stage and gives a slop free steering system. With careful thought it can be installed so that the servo could be removed (for replacement) without breaking into the loop. As an addition, the "Cables" are normally fishing "Trace" wires.
 
  Regards   Ian.
Title: Re: OCCRE "Ulises" Build.
Post by: peter61_uk on January 26, 2014, 12:36:05 pm
Hi Ian,

I can get to the servo for replacement very easily .......... It is sited under the rear hatch. ............. What I'm trying to determine is whether I really need the second cable??? .......... or whether or not it's a bit of overkill.
Title: Re: OCCRE "Ulises" Build.
Post by: vnkiwi on January 27, 2014, 03:30:19 am
Using these bowden cables, and /or closed loop lines, I always use them in pairs, real cheap insurance.
Use them on ALL my planes, and boats. Before this became standard practice for me I did have a few instances of models, both flight and boat, "rekitting" themselves, and the cause, always a failure in the directional control system. I also use the closed loop system on my sailing boat models
cheers
vnkiwi   :-))
Title: Re: OCCRE "Ulises" Build.
Post by: inertia on January 27, 2014, 10:45:49 am
Peter
By the time you have soldered a metal extender to the end of the stranded cable for a metal clevis or ball-and-cup connector to fit to the tiller arm (See SLO16-R on this page http://http://www.slecuk.com/catalogue/Control-Fittings.html (http://http://www.slecuk.com/catalogue/Control-Fittings.html)) there will be effectively no "bendable" cable after the end of the outer tube. Indeed you may even need to trim it back. Closed loop systems, as has been mentioned, tend to use much thinner cable than you have there.
I have recently taken delivery of a Midwest Boothbay Lobster Boat kit - probably the finest wooden kit I've ever handled (how about a 94-page illustrated instruction manual AND a full-size plan?). For rudder control it uses - you've guessed it - a stranded metal cable of just 1.25mm diameter running in a nylon tube. I've no plans to use anything else. The model is 30" long, BTW.
DM
Title: Re: OCCRE "Ulises" Build.
Post by: peter61_uk on January 27, 2014, 08:07:21 pm
Moving on from the rudder cable thing........

The inside of the hull (atleast the bit's I can get to has had a coat of acrylic varnish ........... For the second coat I've borrowed an idea from Martin's epic Bismarck build .........I'm going to line the hull with "Plasterers self adhesive scrim" and give it a liberal coat of varnish. I figure it can't do any harm and can onlt ad to hull integrity (maybe) ........ I've only done one section to see if it works. I'll check it out once it drys....... If it looks like it's well fixed in place I'll do the rest .......... If not I'll take it off.
Title: Re: OCCRE "Ulises" Build.
Post by: Circlip on January 27, 2014, 08:49:42 pm
Pity that when the muddy raters start hacking the posts about, they aren't as efficient at making sure links work!
 
  Corrected this one for you Inertia, too many Https (again)
 
      http://www.slecuk.com/catalogue/Control-Fittings.html (http://www.slecuk.com/catalogue/Control-Fittings.html)
 
  Regards   Ian.
Title: Re: OCCRE "Ulises" Build.
Post by: peter61_uk on January 27, 2014, 08:59:34 pm
Pity that when the muddy raters start hacking the posts about, they aren't as efficient at making sure links work!
 
  Corrected this one for you Inertia, too many Https (again)

 
      http://www.slecuk.com/catalogue/Control-Fittings.html (http://www.slecuk.com/catalogue/Control-Fittings.html)
 
  Regards   Ian.

I did wonder why it wouldn't open???? Thanks
Title: Re: OCCRE "Ulises" Build.
Post by: peter61_uk on January 27, 2014, 09:07:20 pm
I definitely think these will be the way forward on the rudder............
Title: Re: OCCRE "Ulises" Build.
Post by: inertia on January 27, 2014, 11:04:59 pm
SLEC do those, too - see same page (with only one http).
DM
Title: Re: OCCRE "Ulises" Build.
Post by: peter61_uk on January 27, 2014, 11:11:39 pm
SLEC do those, too - see same page (with only one http).
DM
Yes. SLEC do the square ones which I think I will use. Easier to grip to get them tight.......a wee bit of theeadlock and "Job Done" :-))
Title: Re: OCCRE "Ulises" Build.
Post by: inertia on January 28, 2014, 08:59:23 am
Peter
The ones shown are hexagonal section and you don't have to grip them because the sprung "washers" just push onto the shaft and lock there. Here's three installed in one of mine (if the photo thing is working):

Title: Re: OCCRE "Ulises" Build.
Post by: Tug-Kenny RIP on January 28, 2014, 11:07:11 am

That's the best looking tiller arrangement I've ever seen.     :-))


ken


Title: Re: OCCRE "Ulises" Build.
Post by: peter61_uk on January 28, 2014, 09:31:30 pm
I have bitten the proverbial bullet and run a second cable for the rudder. So we now have the "Holy Grail" of rudder systems in the form of a closed loop ........ Second cable takes a bit of a detour around the formers in a curve. But I've tried the inner cable in it and it runs freely. So Now I can get on and finish the "scrim lining........... The section I tried yesterday as dried and looks ok, it has adhered well so now I can do the rest of the hull......... and that is the inside done.

Then I can carry on with the outside.................... A few more photos tomorrow.
Title: Re: OCCRE "Ulises" Build.
Post by: peter61_uk on January 28, 2014, 09:47:28 pm
Peter
The ones shown are hexagonal section and you don't have to grip them because the sprung "washers" just push onto the shaft and lock there. Here's three installed in one of mine (if the photo thing is working):

Found them ............ SL063-R ............ But I also found someone on evilbay selling them. So I bought them there, SLEC wanted £4.34 inc postage for a pack of two ........ I bought a pack of four for £ 4.45 posted
Title: Re: OCCRE "Ulises" Build.
Post by: peter61_uk on January 29, 2014, 09:43:05 pm
Both Cables for the close loop steering are now in place.............. You can also see the trial area where I used the builders scrim and varnish.
Title: Re: OCCRE "Ulises" Build.
Post by: mark w on January 29, 2014, 11:59:19 pm
Peter,
 
This builds lookin' great  :-))
 
Mark
Title: Grp finishing over a planked hull question
Post by: peter61_uk on January 31, 2014, 10:02:08 am
I'm about to start on sorting out my planked hull ready for grp skinning........ My Occre Ulises is a bilge hull. The destructions just show paint over the wood and there is nowt about using GRP ...... and the destructions just show planking the deck and then fitting the Gunwales. So, I need to be adapting that a bit if I'm going to put GRP over the hull...... Assuming the hull is sanded and filled ready to go, and the ply deck is fitted. Should I fit the raised gunwhales and take the GRP to the top of them or do I grp just the hull and fit the Gunwhales after....... The reason I'm not sure here is: If I'm fitting the Gunwales and taking the GRP up to the top of them, then I have to plank the deck first and mask it up to protect it, as it is impactical, as far as I can see, to plank it effectively with the Gunwhales fitted........ I think all that makes sense ??????
Title: Re: Grp finishing over a planked hull question
Post by: Circlip on January 31, 2014, 10:20:06 am
You are a flamin' masochist.    O0    {-)
 
  Regards   Ian.
Title: Re: Grp finishing over a planked hull question
Post by: derekwarner on January 31, 2014, 10:33:29 am
You also have STML....[short term memory loss] twas just a few days ago you agreed to keep all of the Q&A for Occre Ulises  in the one thread....... >>:-( Derek
Title: Re: Grp finishing over a planked hull question
Post by: peter61_uk on January 31, 2014, 11:14:50 am
You also have STML....[short term memory loss] twas just a few days ago you agreed to keep all of the Q&A for Occre Ulises  in the one thread....... >>:-( Derek

Whhooops !!! ...... Sorry  :}
 
It is in one thread............ I'm not posting this in the Occre Ulises Build thread....... Once I have the answer(or probably 15 different ones  :-) ) ......... I'l post in the build thread about how I do it ....... or is that being pedantic ????
 
Perhaps someone with the technical cahooneys could move it across there for me....... and i promise not to do it again.
Title: Re: Grp finishing over a planked hull question
Post by: peter61_uk on January 31, 2014, 11:20:05 am
You are a flamin' masochist.    O0    {-)
 
  Regards   Ian.

 {:-{ ........ I'm in trouble again.
Title: Re: Grp finishing over a planked hull question
Post by: Tug-Kenny RIP on January 31, 2014, 11:27:41 am

Nice to keep  the thread all together          :}



Title: Re: OCCRE "Ulises" Build.
Post by: peter61_uk on January 31, 2014, 11:37:28 am
Peter,
 
This builds lookin' great  :-))
 
Mark

Thanks Mark.........Appreciated.
Title: Re: OCCRE "Ulises" Build.
Post by: peter61_uk on February 01, 2014, 11:50:31 pm
Hull has had a bit of a rub down, a bit more to do yet. Aft raised deck is planked and deck is fitted............. I've also made up a saddle clamp out of some ply just to make sure the lower (port side) outer cable stays put........
Title: Re: OCCRE "Ulises" Build.
Post by: peter61_uk on February 02, 2014, 05:31:36 pm
Spent today rubbing down the hull some more and shaped the raised deck, managed to get out in the garden to do it. Then I plastered the outside with some filler, with my beloved moaning about the smell. I decided on UPOL Quicksand .......... It seems to be taking it's time drying. I just hope I used enough hardener ???? I have no idea  long it takes............... {:-{
Title: Re: OCCRE "Ulises" Build.
Post by: Stavros on February 02, 2014, 07:15:43 pm
OH dear ME OH dear ME sorry to say this BUT another member who didnt read my article in the paint section regarding fillers................BEST of luck with that one.........
 
Very slow to go off and a tendancy to have air holes in the surface when it is hard

Dave
Title: Re: OCCRE "Ulises" Build.
Post by: peter61_uk on February 02, 2014, 08:19:06 pm
OH dear ME OH dear ME sorry to say this BUT another member who didnt read my article in the paint section regarding fillers................BEST of luck with that one.........
 

Very slow to go off and a tendancy to have air holes in the surface when it is hard

Dave

It was either that or Polyfilla ..........

I knew I should have gone for a GRP Hull........ Life would have been so much easier  {:-{
Title: Re: OCCRE "Ulises" Build.
Post by: peter61_uk on February 04, 2014, 09:17:18 pm
........and now. We have hit our first major crisis. It had to happen eventually. :((

As I suspected. I haven't used enough hardener in some of the filler and after 2 days it's still soft. So I've spent most of the evening scraping it off. Luckily the areas at the bow and stern are ok for some reason..... It's just along the sides. Also, this stuff is supposed to be "Easy Sanding" ..... That might be the case but, I've used a tone of abrasive (but then I think I was a bit over zealous with the filler in some places  {:-{) ......... So tomorrow, I'm taking it into work and I'll get myself into the joiners shop next door. They have all manner of Rotary Sanders (big and small) ....... That'll deal with it.......  <*<
Title: Re: OCCRE "Ulises" Build.
Post by: Stavros on February 04, 2014, 10:34:56 pm
use it as a first skim and then use EASYLIGHT available form HALFORDS...............doesnt matter if u put it on thick or this it is so so easy to sand NOT LIKE THAT STUFF you have got.
 
Filler ratio is simple..........golf ball size of filler ...............Pea size of hardener.............thats the CORRECT ratio
 
 
Dave
Title: Re: OCCRE "Ulises" Build.
Post by: peter61_uk on February 04, 2014, 10:43:48 pm
Thanks Dave ............ I definitely "shorted" on the hardener.

I'll go get some Easy Lite tomorrow.

Title: Re: OCCRE "Ulises" Build.
Post by: peter61_uk on February 05, 2014, 09:48:48 pm
Well I got most of the filler off ........... The orbital sander worked a treat. The hull is now looking pretty good, smooth as a proverbial "baby's butt". I'm going to need a little bit more filling in the bow area......... Now the deck is on, it seems the top couple of planks have sunken on the curve and there is nothing in the way of a rebate to sit the bulwarks on when they are fitted. So I've stuck two pieces of plank on either side about 150mm long. I'll shape them to the correct curve and then that'll give me a rebate and a reference point for filling and final shaping of the bow area.
Title: Re: OCCRE "Ulises" Build.
Post by: peter61_uk on February 06, 2014, 10:55:05 pm
use it as a first skim and then use EASYLIGHT available form HALFORDS...............doesnt matter if u put it on thick or this it is so so easy to sand NOT LIKE THAT STUFF you have got.
 
Filler ratio is simple..........golf ball size of filler ...............Pea size of hardener.............thats the CORRECT ratio
 
 
Dave

I have finished sanding and the hull is in pretty good shape now ............. I've shaped the couple of planks I added to the bow, and I've checked it all over and marked the areas that need a bit more filler. Tomorrow I'll give this "Easy Lite a whirl on the last bits.

Title: Re: OCCRE "Ulises" Build - Prop Questions ?????
Post by: peter61_uk on February 06, 2014, 11:12:16 pm
Propellers ?????
The kit comes with a 40mm 3 blade prop, which I believe is right hand. At least I think that's what it is. To give forward propulsion it would turn to the right (or clockwise). I can fit a 45 mm prop in there and probably a 50mm but that might be a bit of a tight fit and get a bit close to the hull. Now bearing in mind that I have a 3:1 gearbox and the shaft is going in the opposite direction than direct drive. So do I now need a left hand prop ........ or doesn't it matter ???? Now as I'm going up a size I was going to get one the  Brass Raboesch props. So, should I stick with 3 blade or would I be better off with a four blade ??? ....... and then we have different blade types: A, C or D, .........????? Apparently type C are "low vibration recommended for Harbour Tugs" and Type D "High Output / Low RPM)

............. At least I'm asking this before I do it. That way I can't have done anything wrong  {:-{

Title: Re: OCCRE "Ulises" Build.
Post by: derekwarner on February 07, 2014, 12:10:35 am
Peter.....I have read back to your original post on 01/02/2014.....

"I can't find much on the internet regarding whether or not this is a model of an actual tug, so I think it's more representative of a type of the early 20th century ocean going steam tugs"

So from this you have a few choices......

1. use the 40 diameter x 3 blade RH [plastic?] prop.....[RED plastic kit props are usually JUNK value]
2. change the polarity on your motor to reverse rotation
3. spend $ on 3 or 4 blade brass propeller's of differing diameters & blade geometry or pitch >>:-(

Why not spend a few hours researching prototypical tug vessels of similar displacement & design  %).........you may from there be able to understand the as installed propulsion & scale it down to suit your model........ :-))

Keep us posted ....but don't rush in & order something that you may be unhappy with  <*< later on......... Derek
Title: Re: OCCRE "Ulises" Build.
Post by: peter61_uk on February 07, 2014, 02:58:20 pm
Peter.....I have read back to your original post on 01/02/2014.....

"I can't find much on the internet regarding whether or not this is a model of an actual tug, so I think it's more representative of a type of the early 20th century ocean going steam tugs"

So from this you have a few choices......

1. use the 40 diameter x 3 blade RH [plastic?] prop.....[RED plastic kit props are usually JUNK value]
2. change the polarity on your motor to reverse rotation
3. spend $ on 3 or 4 blade brass propeller's of differing diameters & blade geometry or pitch >>:-(

Why not spend a few hours researching prototypical tug vessels of similar displacement & design  %) .........you may from there be able to understand the as installed propulsion & scale it down to suit your model........ :-))

Keep us posted ....but don't rush in & order something that you may be unhappy with  <*< later on......... Derek

Derek,
 
I think you are right about the the "representation of a type" I spent hours on Google looking for anything. So I'm going to use a bit of "artistic interpretation" in the finish ok2
 
As for the prop ......... The plastic prop in the kit is a real cheap and nasty effort which I was planning to replace from the start even if it was the same size..... When I originally started this kit I did have it suggeted that with the motor being stepped down that a larger prop might be good Voodoo .....I'm ok with reversing polarity to keep a right hand prop or indeed get it running whichever way ........ I was just wondering about size / type and blade numbers and what effect they have on performance / torque and if rotation vs left or right hand props have any effect ???? {:-{
 
 
Title: Re: OCCRE "Ulises" Build.
Post by: peter61_uk on February 08, 2014, 08:57:55 pm
I've started Planking the deck and I'm really not sure which is more tedious. Planking the deck or planking the hull. {:-{
Title: Re: OCCRE "Ulises" Build.
Post by: peter61_uk on February 08, 2014, 11:49:41 pm
Today's effort ............ Deck Planking. Has to be done before the Bulwarks go on . Then I can attack the GRP.
Title: Re: OCCRE "Ulises" Build.
Post by: inertia on February 09, 2014, 08:38:46 am
Peter
Regard it as therapy for something you haven't yet suffered from.
DM
Title: Re: OCCRE "Ulises" Build.
Post by: derekwarner on February 09, 2014, 09:35:36 am
Peter...... :o

1. what scale is this?
2. what is the real deck planking dimensions?
3. are they true to scale?

Derek
Title: Re: OCCRE "Ulises" Build.
Post by: peter61_uk on February 09, 2014, 12:58:35 pm
Hi Derek ....... The Scale of the kit is 1/30 .......... The planks are what was supplied with the kit at 6mm Wide x 0.6mm Thk.

Title: Re: OCCRE "Ulises" Build.
Post by: Netleyned on February 09, 2014, 01:14:39 pm
7 Inch planks on the real thing then.


Ned
Title: Re: OCCRE "Ulises" Build.
Post by: derekwarner on February 09, 2014, 08:45:32 pm
Ned....is this a statement or a question?  %) ....it's just that they looked a little wide........but maybe optical distortion  :embarrassed: being 22,000 km away  ;D .....Derek
Title: Re: OCCRE "Ulises" Build.
Post by: peter61_uk on February 09, 2014, 09:46:12 pm
Well I've finished the planking ........... and spacially distorted or not. I'm quite happy with the result. Hatch coamings are fitted. So now I have to fill in the black caulking / lines and get some matt varnish on them.

 
Title: Re: OCCRE "Ulises" Build.
Post by: peter61_uk on February 09, 2014, 10:46:13 pm
Afew pictures of the "spacially distorted" deck planking ......... I still have to trim up the raised bow. But that'll be tomorrow after the glue is properly set.

Title: Re: OCCRE "Ulises" Build.
Post by: mark w on February 10, 2014, 01:39:46 am
Looks good to me  :-))


Mark
Title: Re: OCCRE "Ulises" Build.
Post by: peter61_uk on February 11, 2014, 11:35:39 am
I've finished marking out the planking / caulking lines  .............. Now, a couple of coats of satin vatnish. Next question??? I guess there's no reason I can't use the acrylic stuff I used on the inside of the hull ???? ............ I'm not after a mirror gloss on the deck and I figure if the deck  really get's that wet then I've got more problems to worry about than what varnish I used  {:-{
Title: Re: OCCRE "Ulises" Build.
Post by: peter61_uk on February 12, 2014, 07:38:53 pm
I was off work today ........ 'er indoors was at work, so no bitchin' on about noise and stuff. I decided to get a bit done. So, we have....
1. Deck planking lines / caulking finished.
2. Forward superstructure / Hatch cover......... The wheelhouse get's added after the wheelhouse deck and bulkhead are planked with some 0.6 x 6mm African Walnut.
3 Aft Superstructure / Hatch cover.
4. Hatch Cover (Shaft UJ Coupling Access) ....... This is a small box like thing that appears pretty much useless.

.......... The three hatch cover / Superstructures are still rough and will need some filling and sanding .......... But they all fit. Big relief. :-))
Title: Re: OCCRE "Ulises" Build.
Post by: boatmadman on February 12, 2014, 11:17:34 pm
Just one question... how the 'eck do you get away with working on the kitchen (?) table?


I get banished to the garage..but thats not always a bad thing! :-))
Title: Re: OCCRE "Ulises" Build.
Post by: derekwarner on February 13, 2014, 01:32:59 am
Just another question  :o how the 'eck do you get away with a packet of Bensen & Hedges ciggies on the kitchen table  <*< .......

I got banished outside....but that's not always a bad thing! :-)) ...it was either too hot or too cold >>:-( ...so I gave up 20 years ago  ....Derek
Title: Re: OCCRE "Ulises" Build.
Post by: peter61_uk on February 13, 2014, 09:49:37 am
It's the dining table  :-)  and I cover it with an old tablecloth and a board when I'm working on the model ........ If I'm Rubbing down or creating much dust ???? I dissapear into the garage.
 
......... and the Benson & Hedges ???? I only every smoke outside.
 
 
Title: Re: OCCRE "Ulises" Build.
Post by: peter61_uk on February 19, 2014, 11:04:35 pm
I've managed to get a bit more done ...............
The deck has had three coats of Satin Exterior Varnish. Bulwarks are on and the Wheelhouse is built. Window Blanks are still in. I'll leave them for a bit , it'll help with masking............. I'm pretty much now on detailing. (With the exception of the hull GRP and paint).
THe interior of the wheelhouse is shown on the plan as being planked with 5mm African Walnut. But this is going to make it very dark inside if you stand half a chance of seeing any of the detail. So, I've planked the deck, rear bulkead and the half bulkhead at the helm position only. The other surfaces will be light grey.......... I've started on some of the interior fittings ........ and I've found some Acetate for Glazing.
A few photos.............
 
Title: Re: OCCRE "Ulises" Build.
Post by: peter61_uk on February 26, 2014, 10:12:14 pm
I've been all busy with detail stuff ........... and got the superstructure in primer and flatted down ready for a little more filler. ........ I must get back on the hull and finish that off {:-{

Title: Re: OCCRE "Ulises" Build.
Post by: peter61_uk on March 02, 2014, 09:48:13 pm
Busy weekend........ 'er indoors was gardening. So I got to crack on without too much in the way of interruption. I finally got around to shaping the bulwarks at the prow and stern didn't need much as they are a good fit. A little filler in a couple of gaps and now the hull is ready to have some resin and fibreglass tissue on it. I have all the stuff...... I just need a few more degrees of temperature so I can work in the garage............ I made a Battery box from some ply and scammed some self adhesive foam from work........ The battery is a snug fit so I'm not bothering with a retaining strap..... It's not going anywhere  :-))
Title: Re: OCCRE "Ulises" Build.
Post by: peter61_uk on March 02, 2014, 09:53:17 pm
...........and today. I made up the slatted cover for the tiller / raised stern. This has taken me hours to get right. I cut each slat shaped the ends for the curve cut the bottom square and it's too long..... So I trim just a tiny bit off ........and it's too short.  >>:-( ...... It drove me nuts.............
Title: Re: OCCRE "Ulises" Build.
Post by: peter61_uk on March 17, 2014, 09:44:14 pm
It's been a while ............. I've been a bit poorly. But things are looking up now. I've managed a bit more on the tug........ The hull finally got it's first coat of Z-Poxy finishing resin. So now I just have to get a coulpe of nice days at the weekend so I can get the tissue on and a final coat.

I've painted the wheelhouse, and finished the wood panelling. I also made up a ladder assembly. That isn't on the plan. The plan has a sort of vertical ladder up to the door which I really thought was rubbish.......... The internal detail is in place and the wheelhouse roof is planked.

The aft hatch / cover is painted.

I made an "On Off Switch Panel that lifts out quite easily so I can get to the back to wire it up. 

And the two lifeboats are nearly done,

Title: Re: OCCRE "Ulises" Build.
Post by: peter61_uk on March 20, 2014, 10:27:39 pm
I'm busy detailing this build and not really getting very far ......... It's starting to become a bit tedious......... I want it finished so I can get it wet........... Moan over............ I'll just have to get my head down and crack on :-))

Title: Re: OCCRE "Ulises" Build.
Post by: Rodgearing on May 31, 2017, 01:22:18 pm
Dun dun dunnnnn   so what happened bit like a murder mystery