Model Boat Mayhem
Mess Deck: General Section => Chit-Chat => Topic started by: Neil on January 12, 2014, 10:57:37 am
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I love maps, and find them fascinating, especially old ones.
I found this map in a charity shop some years ago in Richmond, North Yorkshire, and when I opened it.....WOW!!!.................
It was something written in pencil ( Weak Defenses ) around the Cayton Bay to North of Scarborough that really got my interest, but as I was on holiday, it was put in the car, and then a photo box and forgotten until I was looking through the box last night.
what does it mean, who did it belong to, why was it drawn upon and was it used........AND BY WHOM??!!!
Who would I go too,to see if this was an authentic piece of war time history, or just someone's figment of imagination or even a school boy prank...........now that I have unearthed the map again, I would like to know a little more about it all.
Sadly there is no date on the map anywhere, and I have gone over it with a magnifying glass, but it shows how old it is by the photos of the "hamlets" of York, Scarborough and Whitby.........lot of building of conurbation since that was drawn.
I am open to all suggestions.
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The fact that it has a (badly drawn) swastika on it would mean that the writing has been done at WW2 era. The writing appears to be quite childish so my guess would be some younger people (scouts?) doing some sort of coastwatching game using an older map.
Only a guess of course but we know that the scouts were used quite a lot during the war to keep an eye open for suspicious activities around our coast.
Dave.
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Indeed, I tend to agree with david. The swastika is a giveaway to it being in the wartime era, and the fact it has a couple of u-boat 'sightings' on it along with a circle of 'weak defences' who but an imaginative young lad would do such a thing? I know its the sort of thing I used to get up to when I was a lad. It may have been 20 years after the war ended but my imagination ran amok on the coastal beaches playing in the bunkers and traps that were left for young lads to play on!
Then there is the cover price, 3 shillings at that time would have been a lot of money, however maps as we all know were in short supply at the time just in case we were invaded, so I would hazard a guess, either just before the war or as I said a lad and his imagination just after the war,
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Could be 1930s. It's a shame there's a sticker over the front: the line obscured could give you a clue to its age (http://www.glass-uk.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=106&Itemid=160).
Andy
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The swastika is facing the wrong way.
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Does this help in any way...
http://www.cartography.org.uk/downloads/MCT_BartsMaps.pdf (http://www.cartography.org.uk/downloads/MCT_BartsMaps.pdf)
Craig.
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another clue is that it is a linen map, not paper, were all such maps drawn on linen at this period of time........and all very interesting thoughts from you guys.
I honestly don't know the answer, and it's not a trick quiz that I have posted.
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Does this help in any way...
http://www.cartography.org.uk/downloads/MCT_BartsMaps.pdf (http://www.cartography.org.uk/downloads/MCT_BartsMaps.pdf)
Craig.
so from that info ( and many thanks Craig) it seems to be a pre 1946 map at least, so could be contemporary with the scribbling's........very interesting.
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Could you not carefully dampen the sticker to remove it and see if there is any info underneath it
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and after reading further Craig, I have found a code A30 on the top left hand corner................so the date on the map is indeed it was published Jan - June 1930............great stuff guys. thanks.
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On the right hand side of the torn sticker there seems to be stamped circular imprint with "51st" showing. Could this be the local Scout group number ? Where is Holmes when you need him !!!
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hi,
is it something to do with when German u boat sank 11 fishing trawlers of Scarborough. they took all fisher men of their boats and sank each one then handed over all survivors to a passing ship. something I read about cant remember it all but this is what I think. some one must have been studying it maybe
David
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Hi All,
Although there is no mention of a 51st Scarborough Scout troop on Google it does list a 49th Scarborough troop still in existence, so perhaps
this was a map used by a now disbanded troop.
All very interesting though when you come across these little personal glimpses of times past.
Thanks for posting it Neil.
Dave.
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Hi All,
Although there is no mention of a 51st Scarborough Scout troop on Google it does list a 49th Scarborough troop still in existence, so perhaps
this was a map used by a now disbanded troop.
All very interesting though when you come across these little personal glimpses of times past.
Thanks for posting it Neil.
Dave.
you are welcome Dave.......I have found the replies fascinating and also very interesting.........might write to the local Scarborough newspaper about it.
hard to see on the map is a criss cross section at Cayton Bay which looks like someone had marked an area of defence in pencil........also very interesting.
neil
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http://www.thescarboroughnews.co.uk/contact-us (http://http://www.thescarboroughnews.co.uk/contact-us)
:-))
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sorry Mr Turbo, but the link doesn't work for me............will have a look though. cheers, neil.
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hello
Just been 'googling' The Home Guard for Scarborough - just to see if there was any connection with the map that you have and it throws up some very interesting things, so easy to get sidetracked.
No doubt if you have a bit more dig there, you might come up with something - of the map you have having something to do with military history.
There were so many leads to follow - I personally ended up following the lead which tracked Hitler's plans for the North East Coast and how high in priority it was held by Hitler.
Off to follow another lead, if I come across anything I will be back.
Just as a side note - I do have my dad's old maps - from WWII where he was based on Shetland Islands - and there are no military markers at all.
http://www.scarboroughsmaritimeheritage.org.uk/ahomeguard.php (http://www.scarboroughsmaritimeheritage.org.uk/ahomeguard.php)
aye
John
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The swastika is facing the wrong way.
more food for thought about the backward facing swastika ! have a look at this
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sauwastika (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sauwastika)
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more food for thought about the backward facing swastika ! have a look at this
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sauwastika (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sauwastika)
Mentions "Bhudda" I reckon it was a map of a plan for Indian People to set up the first Curry Chop in Yorkshire! :embarrassed: :embarrassed: {-) {-) {-) {-)
Mick F
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http://www.scarboroughsmaritimeheritage.org.uk/ahomeguard.php (http://www.scarboroughsmaritimeheritage.org.uk/ahomeguard.php)
aye
John
that was very interesting read, John,
and trust a Cornishman to debase everything {-) {-) {-) {-) {-) {-)