Model Boat Mayhem
The Shipyard ( Dry Dock ): Builds & Questions => Steam => Topic started by: Landlocked on January 26, 2014, 10:13:24 pm
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All,
Some of you may have been following my Sabino Engineering Build Log in Steam R &D which is an amalgamation of several steam focused threads. I thought at this point, the Steam section might be more appropriate for the work on the hull. In so much as this is my third winter of work, over the next several days, I'll get the hull work caught up to date. Then, postings will slow to a crawl...
The Sabino is a 1908 steam boat designed the rivers of Maine that was later modified to work in the bays of Maine. The major modification was to add two sponsons to the sides of the hull to reduce roll and then widen the superstructure for new hull.
Sabino is still afloat and operating at Mystic Seaport in Mystic CT USA
http://www.mysticseaport.org/locations/vessels/sabino/
I obtained plans from the Seaport and enlarged them to permit a 1/16 scale build. This size would be as large as I thought I could manhandle up and down my cellar stairs.
Landlocked/Ken
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The hull lines reflect the current hull. To build it, I realized I would need to simulate building the original hull and then add on the sponsons. Here I'm guesstimating what the original lines might have looked like.
Landlocked/Ken
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Initial phases where fairly typical. I made the backbone and then I glued the lines onto the frames. Having cracked thin frames on earlier boats, I cut the frames out solid, test fitted everything into mortises on the backbone, and then cut the frames "thin." I made a building stand angled to reflect the keel's drag to hold the backbone in a Workmate for after it comes of the strongback.
Landlocked/Ken
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Apologies to my English teachers. I know the difference between were and where >>:-(
Since the sponson planking runs over the original hull planking, I added short "sister" frame pieces on which land the butt ends of the "original planking.
Landlocked/Ken
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Hullo Ken.......
I am a little lost with the hull lines. :embarrassed: ...
Is the water line about the level marked BPOW..?.......
Just having a little difficulty %) in understanding how such a modification could reduce a rolling moment
Derek
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I didn't quite (alright, not even close) figure out what the natural planking runs should be for the inner hull. Good thing it's a workboat and not finished bright.
Sponson planking had me stumped for quite a while. I couldn't figure out where the planks should run. When I realized that using the bottom of the extended bumper as if it was the keel, I could plank towards the inner hull and have the board lay flat. Took a little while to figure out the rabbet at the forward end.
Landlocked/Ken
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Derek,
Line 4 is roughly the waterline. What looks like BPOW on the right side of the picture is the mirror image of the word sponson which is partially cropped. The original lines had the forward sections on one side of the centerline and the aft sections on the other so I had to mirror image the copy to get both sides.
The original hull width roughly follows the line of the french curve for that station. There's a faint line for the next section visible to the left of the french curve. You can see the inner hull shape better looking at the next post with the molds set up.
The sponsors added a lot of beam and a little bit more bouyancy (particularly in the aft sections). As the boat rolled more of the sponsor entered the water and resisted the roll.
Ken
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Derek,
One correction. BPOW is SPON on the right. I lost the graphic when I started typing so got confused.
Ken
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Nice work! Power plant choice?
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Xrad,
Power plant is a TVR1A.
Engineering details on depicted on this thread.
http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,41750.0.html
Enjoy!
Ken
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Fine little engine. Runs well once broken in. I have a BB version but not sure BB's are needed.
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Hello Ken
Very interresting boat and very nice job. Looking at your engineering subject http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,41750.0.html (http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,41750.0.html) I've seen that you changed the name to African Queen as the hull was wrong.
But it was in september 2013 when you said that - what about now with this Sabino built log ? Is it a new hull or just the built log of the "wrong" one ?
I have a friend here in Europe interrested with the Mystic Seaport Sabino, in fact I was attracted to your subject because of the name Sabino and thinking about details for him.
Cheers
Xtian
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Xtain,
The name is still Sabino. And it is the Sabino's hull design. When floating in the water without the superstructure, with the grasses around it, I thought I could imagine it as the African Queen.
Ken
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Love he old ones keep up the good work O0
John
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All,
Last thing I did before gluing the coverboards down along with the outer section of the deck was to foam the forward and aft sections.
I built the coverboards in two layers with a lip on the inside edge to slide the deck under. The plywood will receive thin styrene strips to simulate the planks.
Landlocked/Ken
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Before the great crash, I asked the forum on advice on how to simulate beaded tongue and groove planking. As you can see in these pictures, it seems like everything on Sabino has a beaded edge.
I decided to attempt to try to fake things with a buildup out of styrene. The results to date are mixed. The bead didn't seem to want to stay fully bedded into its groove. I don't know how much detail will stay once I paint.
I knew I wasn't going for "museum quality" from the beginning. Hope it will pass the "five foot away" test.
Landlocked/Ken
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First pieces built were the forward bulwarks. I printed mirror image copies of the hawse pipe area to help drill them. I think I'll make a decal for the carving work.
As you can see, mixed results on the beaded tongue and groove.
Landlocked/Ken
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Well Ken....sometimes in life we should stand back & reconsider if our ship owners <*< or shipyard masters >>:-( are asking too much of the scale dockyard crew :o
Scaling down T&G wooden planking or battens is OK O0......... but don't blame the painters & dockers when the actual detail is lost in the paint nominated by the shipyard master......... {-)
Derek
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Good progress recently. This post brings me up to current.
I got smarter when I started building the main sections of the bulwarks. I made duplicates of the covering boards and punched the holes through the lower layer of the railings at the same time as I punched the holes through the covering boards for the bulwark posts. Much smarter than when I did the forward sections (and easier to keep the posts vertical).
After I get the bulwarks painted (I'll remove the railings for that) and determine where they need to be notched for the deckhouses, I'll trim the posts flush and install the upper layer.
Second photo shows the main bulwarks planked. The forward section has been spray painted. The planking detail did not disappear but I quickly realized that enough paint to cover the styrene is not enough to fully coat the wood. I'll go back and touch up the hawsepipe wood. I need a bit of filler to close up the gap between the wood and the styrene. I hand painted the wooden posts that will be exposed on the inside. I'll lightly spray the inside of the bulwarks this week.
Planking had a lot of the same problems as the earlier section except, too late, I realized that I needed to have faired the bulwark posts as if they were ribs. Also, I pulled the thin sheet styrene (my base layer) too tight and it didn't arc around the curves but ran point to point (post to post). The longer, thicker bottom plank wanted to bow out a bit more than I would have liked. Consequently, there was more art to fitting the normal thickness planks around the curved stern. The tension from the bends also pulled the styrene loose from the wooden posts. Bottom line -- the bulwark planking is a lot more wavy than I would have liked.
I also made the bulwark sections for the boarding gap. They are set back a bit. On the original, hand rails flip up and the bulwarks are three stacked boards. I opted not to get that cute and they'll be fixed in place.
Since I've caught up to today, update posts will be a bit more infrequent. After painting the bulwarks, I'll turn to planking the exterior deck areas and then start on deckhouse sides.
Landlocked/Ken
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Hello;
I find this very interesting SABINO construction!
SE passenger boat my already attract and I'm looking for plans (couples and longitudinal) but I would like to build in its original, non-extended version and a more reduced scale to have a length of 700 mm shell.
I am attentive following your construction of the SABINO and his machine to steam.
Cordially F. Delaunay :-))
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Mr. Delauney,
I purchased the plans from Mystic Seaport but the lines only show the current widened hull. You could estimate the narrow hull version as I did (earlier post) and it should work.
Mystic sells a book called "A Steamboat Named Sabino" by George King III that has pictures of the original narrow boat called "Tourist."
I'm building at 3/4" to the foot (1:16) and it'll be about 45" long. 1/2 inch to foot (1:24) scale should give you a boat should be about perfect.
Landlocked
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what a great job you have done :-))
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Bernhard,
Thanks for the compliment. This has been a real learning process since it is the first time I've used styrene. It will meet the 5 ft away good enough standard.
The weather is starting to get nice outside. I'm not going to quite get to my build goal for this winter but that won't keep me from doing some steaming trials to see if I getting the mechanicals right.
Hope to have something worth taking a picture of soon.
Ken/Landlocked.
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Great work, these boats are the kind I love best the old timers with real history keep up the good work :-))
Cheers
John
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Hello Ken,
Nice work, I look forward ais the end of this construction! :-))
Ais I followed your advice and at first I board buy the book of King George III.
But I do not find how to make a commendatory plans of SABINO?
Anyway it will take me that couples and profile of the keel of the first version, maybe in the book I find my happiness?
Congratulations and forgive my Anglai; Google translation is not too good. ok2
Regards Francois
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Francois,
Mr. George's book has very reduced versions of the plans I bought separately and then enlarged. The hull lines are on page 123. The lower half of the body plans reflect the slender version of "Tourist" but they then bulge outward to form the widened version of "Sabino." The construction plans on page 122 show the cross section of the slender hull and then the added on frames and planking for the wide hull. You could use the five cross-sections of the page 122 plan and then fill in a couple of stations by extending the lines like I did early in this thread. Your frame spacing might not be even but it should work.
Good luck,
Ken
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Hello Ken!
Thank you for your answer! :-))
Whenever I am in possession of this book I look.
Will I bother you for some explanation, in case I have a problem?
Sincerely François
" google translation "
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Francois,
Ask away!
Ken
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All,
I've made some progress on the cold days. I have the outer walls in the amidships section done.
Starboard side was a bear. I had problems getting the 1/4 in long pieces to stay aligned while planking the window dividers. Several are clearly tilted mid section and I didn't detect until several more were in place.
Then I had my forehead smacking moment. These pieces were short enough that there was no flexing needed to follow the sheer line of the hull. I could make them as a block and then cut the strips to width.
The second forehead bruise came when I realized I didn't have to keep the hull mounted vertically in its stand and kneel alongside but could lean it over. Dooh!! >>:-(
Port side went very quickly!! :}
Ken/Landlocked
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Oops, this should have been the second picture.
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Hi having some experience with these types of vessel it is important to follow the lines of sheer with doors and windows also most have forward windows angled top to bottom towards the bow or stern in the case of double enders just to make it easier to build Yea right O0
Cheers
John
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Hi,
Went back to the work bench as winter has started and was surprised to find two small styrene panels had warped. They were two sections of bulkhead, planked with strips on two sides. How does styrene warp and how does one straighten the panels?
Ken
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The answer to both questions I should imagine is "Heat"
You may be able to persuade it back into place with a hot air gun. Any pictures. so that we can see the damage please.
ken
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It's just a thought it might not be the styrene ,I see from your photos there is wood in the build it might be the wood has moved , this is not ease to check .. Just a thought .
David
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certain glues and paints will also affect styrene....
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Ken,
Pictures as requested. Panels are the port and stbd end panels for the main cabin. They bridge from the outer bulkhead to the doorways flanking the "ladies" cabin.
I tried resaturating the joints for the main beam with solvent and pressing it flat with no luck.
Any idea how hot to heat the panels? Can I heat them in a toaster oven and then place them between weights?
Landlocked
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Hello Ken,
To straighten couldn't you used a hair dryer on a scrap piece of the same material as the twisted walls?
Kind regards
François
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Ken, the warping is caused by having dissimilar materials bonded together. Wood on plastic need a different technique. You must allow the wood to move to relieve the stresses. The plasticard is very stable but the wood expands and contracts with differences of temperature and also humidity. It expands only a small amount in length but a large amount in width. This is due to the grain in the wood. The vertical planks need to be secured to the plasticard using only a dab of adhesive in the centre of the plank. The ends must be allowed to float under rebates in the surrounding frame. Take a look at a panelled door. The panels are not glued into the frame but are quite free to move as required. You really need to make these bulkheads up more or less as they would be on the full size vessel, ie. tongue and groove and rebates. The top and bottom rails need to be well secured to the above and below decks to get their strength.
Best of luck,
Jerry.
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Now I've seen the pictures, I realize the dis-similar materials are fighting each other.
Jerry is right. Heating and bending the structure would only work in the short time. I should imagine you're going to have to re-make it with these ' mods'.
So sorry I couldn't be of more help.
ken
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{:-{
Hello
You can do everything you want it will always be twisted.
You will put fewer time to begin again.
The result will be better
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All,
The warped pieces are only made of styrene. There's no wood in these part. The stanchions for the outer bulkheads are styrene on wood but not here.
I agree rebuilding is probably faster than trying to force these pieces into shape. I just don't want the same thing to happen again.
Ken
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Oh well, in that case the heat gun and clamps will do the trick. I would also fit an extra support across the inside edge at right angles (if it doesn't show on the finished model)
Cheers
ken
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Heat gun applied. Styrene softens up pretty quickly.
Overall, I'm satisfied with the results but intend to get them mounted quickly.
Thanks for the help.
Ken
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Hi,
Now that I have my aft wing walls straight enough, I started to work on the forward curved walls of main cabin that provide room on the exterior for the stairwells (ladders if you're Navy) to the upper deck. I realized that I had glued the sills to the deck with no provision to attach the walls. I decided to use some .80 X .80 styrene as channels to fit the walls into but had to way to fully clamp the curved pieces in place. I original made a additional sill layer from my thinnest plywood but was unsuccessful in getting a good glue up to the semi-springy styrene. I switch to a thin piece of styrene sheet and at it held the sections just fine. I'll use the same approach for several other wall sections.
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Somehow I hit a key chord and it posted before I was ready. Here is the picture to illustrate my sill challenge.
Ken
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Hi,
Working on the walls of the Ladies Lounge and the warping started again. Put a 1/2 dozen "tongue and groove" planks in place (see lower portion page one of thread for my T & G approach) and thing curled upward over night.
Remedied this time by gluing the faux studs in place to add rigidity.
My WAG is that the backing sheet is so thin that the solvent is letting the bonds slip so the sheet "grows" a bit. Studs will go in place first for the few walls/partitions remaining.
Landlocked/Ken.
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You can WYSIWYG type using - (http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/Themes/core/images/bbc/toggle.gif)
Also you can use the Preview button -
(http://u.cubeupload.com/Mayhem1/gQ2SNN.jpg)
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Well,
Once again the computer's winning. Trying to see if I can get the full text to post this time.
I'm well into the third year of my build and I'm at a crossroads --install some wall/bulkhead pieces exterior finished-only, see some progress, and stay inspired or work the interior side of the walls too and lose motivation.
I think I was overly ambitious when I scoped this effort. If I do the outside only, I have a chance of finishing the project while I'm still hale enough to carry it and enjoy it on the water. When I turn infirm and can only putter (or is it potter(?)) around the house, maybe I'll get back to doing the interior.
Does my calculus sound about right?
Ken/Landlocked
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you got it right, go sailing now, rest can wait
:-))
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Happy New Year!
I finally made enough progress that I thought I could share.
I mounted the wall sections I assembled late last year and built the Ladies Lounge walls (they're taped together for the photo, will spray paint before gluing in).
I'll leave it to the eagle eyes (those able to find Martin's damn cat last year) to spot the "straightened" walls that warped over the summer.
The second photo shows the removable locker designed to provide access to the steering gear.
Next step is to build the upper deck. First challenge is to figure out how to make the deck edge fit over the cabin sides and still have the whole deck be removable for maintenance (I'm thinking I'll have a removable center portion of the deck for operational access).
Landlocked
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Looking good. Nice to see everything coming together.
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:-) Hello Ken;
Beautifully presented right these partitions;
For superstructures, why not have do them completely removable; There is sufficient for maintenance, to get out them of a block?
I wish you a happy new year and good health to you and your family, as well as to the Participants to be Forum
Kind regards
François
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All,
Time for a project update. It's always nice when your model starts looking more and more like the original. Thanks to the deconstruction of the real Sabino to make it fit into its repair shed, I've made faster than expected progress.
My upper deck work proceeded unevenly as I tried to decided how to make the steam plant accessible. After much indecision, I've decided on a two piece approach. The fore deck with pilot house will be removable if absolutely required. The after 3/4 section plus awning will come on and off as one piece to access the components. Still some decisions to be made with respect to the whistle and funnel.
Had some mismatches between the plans between the main and upper deck and/or my reading of them. I had to flare the upper foredeck out to align with my side walls. The side ladders will be a bit narrow.
I made a mistake when I prematurely trimmed the side walls to height. Need to work some form of overlap between the upper deck edge and the side walls to cover the seam between the fixed and removable parts.
I've broken out the airbrush since I'll be making some "final" assembly in the foredeck area. It seems I spend more time cleaning the airbrush than actually painting with it.
Stay warm,
Ken/Landlocked
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@ Landlocked / Ken
I'm new to the forum and just noticed your build log. Its been a fascinating read. Looking forward to see the finished result.
Keep up the good work :-))
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Hi Ken, This is a super build of a very complex hull/boat, you have made it look very authentic, I had to look twice at the last photos to see if it was the real thing on a sandy beach, or the model on a carpet, nicely done matey. :-)) :-))
Joe.
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Joe,
Thanks for the compliment. There's some waves in the side walls when you get close but it'll meet the "looks good on the water" standard even if it won't score well on the table but that's not why I'm building it. The real standard will be heard in the children's voices when they see it and hear the whistle.
This build is way more complex/hard to do than I realized when I started but I've always jumped into the deep end. :-)
The ladies lounge's sidewalls are glued in now. After wall may require some mods. There's a step well at the top of the aft ladder in the plans that's not apparent in my pictures. I think I'll need to make the ladder before I can really tell.
Lower foredeck's simulated planking is painted and glued in. Working on the seating benches that will also hold the stanchions/poles for the upper desk in place. Right now, when I lift the upper foredeck off, they all fall out/over.
Seaways Feb 15 "Ships in Scale" has Sabino as the featured historic ship.
Ken/Landlocked
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Looks really good Ken looking forward to seeing it on the water :-))
Cheers
John
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Well, we put the trials basin (wife's garden pond) into commission today which is a good sign that Spring has sprung and the build season is over. I'm going to put some time into the mechanicals (will be switching to my Steam R&D thread) and maybe able to do some more mechanical shakedown cruises.
Not a lot of real visible progress since my last update. Did some detail work in the bow area. Some partitions in place in the stern and some trim on the upper deck edging.
Not real happy with my posts. Way out of plumb in several spots. Not use sure if it was from drilling the bases, carving the posts, or gluing. Fortunately, it turns out there's plenty strength without them so maybe able to hide the errors.
Everyone get out and enjoy your boats!
Ken/Landlocked
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:-))
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Hello ;
%) :-))
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All,
Those of you following my engineering built log over in Steam R&D section are aware that I decided to rework my gas piping to improve access to my jet. This rework meant moving the forward wall/bulkhead forward.
I've completed most of my deck house rework. I think I blended the extensions in fairly well. With the decking on and the front ladders installed, only the "rivet counters " (to steal a term from the model railroad community) should notice the changes when comparing to the pictures from my earlier entry.
Next piece is the rear ladder to the upper deck and then I'll start on the pilot house and fix my mal-aligned support posts.
Ken/Landlocked
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Slow but steady progress. I'm using yellow glue and not CA so I have a lot of down time waiting on the glue to set up.
Rear ladder is done. Took some finessing since the plans didn't match my pictures of the original -- obviously there had been some rework. Plans showed a much larger footwell at the top. You can see my incremental shrinking of it if you look real close. Box under the ladder lifts off for access to the rudder linkage so the ladder also lifts off. The entire the upper deck lifts off for access to the steam plant so there are same seam gaps.
Started working on the pilot house. My plan is to use light plywood at all the key heights to define the shape and sand balsa blocks to shape. All the glass will be fixed in place and not lowering since I decided that was too much pain. Still debating on the cabin windows as to which will operate (only a couple) and what positions the others will be fixed in.
Ken/Landlocked
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Happy Turkey Day/Thanksgiving,
After a splendid Autumn/Fall (I'm trying to be bi-lingual/speak the language of both sides of the pond :-) [size=78%]),[/size]
the weather has turned Scottish (cold and rainy with some freezing rain - did I get that right?).
Here's the status as of today. As usual, the camera doesn't lie. When looking at the pics, I noticed my window frame/door frame weren't parallel. Sure enough, 1/16 of an inch off. How I missed it while I puttied and sanded, I don't know. A wedge of balsa is now glued in place, waiting to be trimmed back.
Next steps are to skin the frame with sheet styrene and do more planking. Hopefully Santa will bring me the micro router stuff I need to make the moldings. Once again, plans don't match the photos. You can see the deltas between the plan in the earlier post and the picture of the pilot house upper section. I'm leaving the roof detachable for now in case I return to finish out the interior.
I have soldered my revised gas piping but pictures and posting to my other thread will have to wait for the next time I disassemble the superstructure.
Ken/Landlocked
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I would leave one or two windowa slightly open to give a bit of realizm (just my thoughts
Cheers
John
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Also the pilot house windows and doors will have to cant forward due to the steep angle of the deck.
John
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Hi Ken,
You nearly had the weather correct, just missed out with snow.
Temps in the Glasgow area are 3c with freezing rain but 100mls up north in the Grampian mountains it's snow and -10c and it's to be worse tomorrow.
In correspondance with a friend in Queensland Australia they are in temps of 40c, it's just not fare !!!!!!!!
Have a good day
Regards
George.
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George,
I posted too early. Snow came today. O0
Ken
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John/Southsteyne,
I've been debating about the windows. If I have them up, the lack of interior finishing won't be as obvious. They were all down on the day that I visited the boat. I may try it both ways.
Your comments about the window/door cant gave me a moment of pause but the original did not maintain true vertical but leaned back with the sheer of the deck. Whew!!
Having some reactions between the sheet styrene and the glue I'm using to attach to the wood frame. It's wrinkling the skin a bit. Going to keep an eye on it. The previous glue I used for styrene to wood isn't made anymore.
Ken/Landlocked
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Time for a status update as I get ready to head back to work. <:(
Pilot house is "planked" out and ready for windows and doors. Santa brought me my Dremel router stand so I built a reasonable facsimile of the blocking for the pilot house roof area (see picture from a few posts earlier).
Cutting it into blocks and gluing will be tedious. I'll intersperse my door building and first attempts at building windows with doing the blocks. Any one have a trick for semi-functional door hinges? I'm thinking my lightest weight styrene.
Ken/Landlocked
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Excellent work! Coming along very nicely...
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Molding is on and painted. Doors made -- haven't figured out the hinges. Everything painted. Windows next step.
Time for an end of the weekend update.
My stop block for cutting the molding blocks wasn't clamped firmly in place so the block length kept creeping longer (which I didn't check mid-cutting). >>:-(
I was NOT interested in re-routing the trim (felt I was lucky it went as well as it did the first time) so I pressed on.
After carefully arranging them in order, I decided to go with a smallest forward on the centerline with the length growing as I came around to the sides.
Given all my other mistakes so far, I'm ok with the way this one worked out.
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Well, there's no progress pictures to post -- mostly because there's no visible progress.
I'm on my third glue trying to build my windows. All of them are quite good at showing fingerprints and smears. The last one actually seems like it'll hold the styrene and plastic together. <*<
I've also discovered that building windows is also a great way of discovering how out of square your window frames really are. >>:-(
Fortunately or unfortunately, the temps is -25C and winds are strong so I just have to face the music.
Back to sloooooooow progress.
Ken/Landlocked
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Hi Ken,
Your model is coming along very nicely and the mouldings on the wheel house roof look great.
Regarding door hinges, have a look at some of the fittings for model aircraft aeleron hinges, some years ago I purchased some for trim tabs on a fast patrol boat and they are still there after about 20 years.
For your window glue again the aircraft guys use Canopy glue which drys without any marks, I used some on the Canopy of a D. Cambell Bluebird K7 and after 3 years hurteling around my club lake and Loch Lomond which is 30 min run from my home it's still in good nick.
You have certainly beat us with your temps of -25 C around Glasgow it was a mear -2 C and at present 5C, time to get the Long Johns Thermals on.
Here is a pic of the K7 Canopy and the glue used.
George.
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George,
Thanks for the aileron hinge idea. Will pursue.
I had to laugh, for once we're using the same product on both sides of the pond w/o paying for $$ shipping. Formula 560 is the glue I ended up with too.
I loved the Super RC Z 56 glue that J & Z made but they've discontinued it without reason. It was my choice for all non-styrene to styrene bonds.
Testors clear didn't hold at all. I forget what my middle step was.
My current challenge is the curved front. My first practice windows were the small ones on the back side of the deckhouse. I build them and then slide them into place. With the curved front, the spacing on the inside of the framing posts is narrower that the front/outside and I've already glued in my side stops so I have to flex the window into place. I think the three center windows will be fixed fully up and I'll build the back two windows in a partially raised position.
10cm of snow today.
Ken/Landlocked
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Hi,
All,
Finally felt that I had made enough progress to provide a Sunday progress posting. 75 degrees F yesterday 20ish? C so I'm not sure how much longer the build season will last.
Building the visor was a pain. Plans vs photos didn't match up but I think I'm close. A big thumbs up for anyone who can figure out my visor based flanges. :-))
Made two windows fully up and and two partially down. Visor is blocking the top edge. May need to trim them shorter.
Ken/Landlocked
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Well hello;
Too handsome ! :-))
I unfortunately abandoned the construction of the mine at the plane ...
I'm no good and well cluttered workspace. <:(
Good result.
cordially
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All, It's mid-May and the build season is coming to an end. Didn't make as much progress as I would have liked (so what's new?) but the pilot house (exterior) is pretty much done. I have the railings up for the foredeck but still need to install the netting.
I pulled the steam plant out -- decided I wanted to get more of the superstructure done so I could confirm I could light off and operate the steam plant in its current configuration. Since laying the boat on its side would make things easier, out it came. I also needed to put a wedge into the framing to get the smoke stack vertical.
I want to give a shout out to Callie at Callie-graphics. She did a great job on my Gold on Black Sabino decals. Took at couple of tries to get our softwares to place nice together but her customer service was great.
http://www.callie-graphics.com/
Ken/Landlocked
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That's "play nice" >>:-(
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All,
I did not realize that it had been since May that I provided a progress report. During the summer, I built the upper deck awning. There's some fine tuning still to be done WRT the stanchions. I got this far by Sept before my foot surgery took me down for a couple of months.
Landlocked.
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Even though my wife allowed me to move the project upstairs to the dining room table, I didn't do much work for two months after my foot surgery. Minor surgery but major disruption to ones mobility. Not impressed by the support the medical community gave me in setting up my house. If anyone has impeding foot surgery, PM me and I'll send you my lessons learned/after action report.
After several tries, I was able to build the railing for the aft ladder. Small wooden balls kept shattering. I was able to find some plastic beads that allowed me to drill some small holes at 90 degrees without shattering. I built up brass rod and concentric tubing until I got to the 1/8 in thickness.
Some gold metallic acrylic paint substituted for bright brass paint. Haven't decided whether I'm going to paint the horizontal railings white per current prototype configuration or go with the plan version which is all brass. I can't get the picture blown up to confirm but I suspect the prototype has fancy rope work painted white and that's not happening.
Landlocked
Next push is the upper deck handrail that will help keep the stanchions aligned and allow me to install and remove the upper deck and its awning as a single structure.
Landlocked
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The good news is my ankle is recovering nicely. The bad news is that it means it's time to move the project back downstairs.
I did a quick dry assembly to take a progress shot (and to spot issues).
I'll mark the waterline and then it's back to the cellar.
Landlocked/Ken
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Great Build.
The round ball stanchions that You are using; where did You purchase them?
I have been looking for one's with the pronounced round balls.
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Great Build.
The round ball stanchions that You are using; where did You purchase them?
I have been looking for one's with the pronounced round balls.
See post 79, this may help.
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Tug,
I bought the beads at HobbyLobby, a huge craft store chain down here. They have a web presence.
Label data: "In Bloom" by Bead Design Company Ok City OK -- What looks like the item number is 183541. $2.99 US
I had about a 50% success rate drilling the corner balls, about 75% on the end ones. Not a big deal since there were 200 in the package. I ran a rod through the existing hole (e.g., the poles) to help me steady the bead but it's not easy hitting the equator at 90 degrees with a small hand held drill. The first time I tried to use an awl to create a starter hole, I pressed too hard and shattered the ball. Used a small rod in the first hole to help me establish the 90 degree rotation for the second hole for the corner posts.
I'd offer to send you my 150 left overs but suspect it would be easier to order for yourself. Let me know if you can't find them.
Landlocked/Ken
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The good news is my ankle is recovering nicely. The bad news is that it means it's time to move the project back downstairs.
I did a quick dry assembly to take a progress shot (and to spot issues).
I'll mark the waterline and then it's back to the cellar.
Landlocked/Ken
Hi Ken,
You have made a great job of SABINO and that pic sure looks good, a credit to your skills well done, I look forward to the launch.
How is your foot coming along and getting better.
Best wishes .
George.
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George,
Thanks for the compliment. I've disassembled it to move it so it's three big steps backwards in appearance.
Foot is to the walking without limp/pain or even thinking about it stage but I'm not to the jumping up and down part yet. Thanks for asking.
Ken
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Landlocked Ken,
Thank You for the insights and Part Number; much appreciated.
I will try that; I have been trying to find pre-built stanchions for my old Steam Tug; yet had not found anything close. Your idea, looks ideal.
Take care.
Tug,
I bought the beads at HobbyLobby, a huge craft store chain down here. They have a web presence.
Label data: "In Bloom" by Bead Design Company Ok City OK -- What looks like the item number is 183541. $2.99 US
I had about a 50% success rate drilling the corner balls, about 75% on the end ones. Not a big deal since there were 200 in the package. I ran a rod through the existing hole (e.g., the poles) to help me steady the bead but it's not easy hitting the equator at 90 degrees with a small hand held drill. The first time I tried to use an awl to create a starter hole, I pressed too hard and shattered the ball. Used a small rod in the first hole to help me establish the 90 degree rotation for the second hole for the corner posts.
I'd offer to send you my 150 left overs but suspect it would be easier to order for yourself. Let me know if you can't find them.
Landlocked/Ken
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I've added an item to my bucket list. Learn how to use a rattle can without having sags and runs. >:-o
Need to let it dry fully to sand...
Thanks,
landlocked/Ken
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And add using masking tape to the list. >>:-(
Landlocked/Ken
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Well, there's still some waterline touch up required but to spare my lungs the fumes, I moved on.
So far the netting project seems to be working. Did the bow section. A lot of snipping with the scissors and CA'ed fingers.
Next project is the two side ladders in the bow. Will be a lot of fitting and trimming since I had to extend the wingwalls forward a bit.
Landlocked
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Well, it's been a while. Not a lot of activity until just recently but winter is here. 15 degrees F this morning.
Sabino has a launch on her deck but not in her plans. Doing some eyeball scaling, I commissioned an appropriately sized 3D printed whaleboat from Shapeways and added a brass prop from Harbor Models.
Added some strips to bow up the cover and cut one out of light canvas. Came out acceptable.
Landlocked
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Merry Christmas,
Some progress forward but some sideways.
Sabino's canopy is not only supported by the posts on the exterior but is also supported by stanchions throughout the middle. To help keep the assemble together while lifting the second deck and canopy sections together, I decided to use them as tie rods to clamp things. So, I've threaded rods through some tubes, added some washers to act as bases, and cut the number in half for sanity.
I had horrible luck trying to align the verticals but something about perfect versus good enough -- did I mention sanity?
The step sideways is sheer. The lower deck reflects the sheer but the deck and canopy's decks have straightened back out. I see no good way to force the sheer back into them and be able to lift them off for access to the mechanicals, so, I'll probably add a bit of a skirt between the decks to help hide the shadow line.
Landlocked
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Some progress made over the holidays.
One ugly spot on the starboard quarter railing where the clamps slipped and there's a noticeable dip/transition.
I'm also not overly pleased with how well I kept all my vertical lines vertical but it is now what it is it.
Next step is to make the hand rails and safety netting for the forward ladders between the main and upper decks. I'll need to use some imagination to create the seam between the ladder railing and the upper railing since the aft portion will be removable.
I also remade the forward jackstaff, to include making it removable. One quick movement of arm and it had become to two pieces.
I'm looking for some lighter elastic thread for the guys for the smokestack.
Landlocked
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I think that it looks absolutely perfect but we are our own worst critics. Netting is a very tricky and difficult thing to get right but you have done a great job :-)
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Got some build time in. First mini-project was to build an extension for the fill plug for the water tank. I decided that I didn't want to lift the forward upper deck and perhaps disassemble the front wall every time I needed to top up.
I had built a manhole access for the plug but trying to unscrew the plug and to thread the spout from my lab water bottle into it just wasn't working. I used a nipple, coupling and soldered a handwheel to the plug to create my stand pipe.
Landlocked
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Hi,
After much trepidation based delays, I tackled the whistle step. I wasn't sure if my concept was going to work -- i.e., to run a pressurized pipe up through a deck and canopy that lifted on and off the model after firing the boiler.
The line had to run inside of the heat shield and then outside of the actual stack[size=78%].[/size]
[/size]First decision was how to get the line from the manifold to along side the pipe. I decided to use elbows instead of just bending it. Making the nipple between the elbows took two tries and generated the "how to clamp" question in the Steam R&D section.[size=78%]
[/size]Notching the wooden plug that held my upper, tilted stack in place took more filing than it should have -- my jeweler saw skills are lacking but I cut too narrow and not too wide so -- no crisis.[size=78%]
[/size]Fortunately, the upper stack slid between the lower stack and the whistle pipe with minimal wiggling so things were looking good.[size=78%]
[/size]But...there always is one. My netting work was keeping the after deck section from dropping straight down so I'll have to offset it slightly and then center it. That means my cutout to clear the wheelhouse was too small and it would only fit with the wheelhouse roof off. I'll decide down the road which way I want to go -- enlarge the cutout or figure out how to quickly attach the wheelhouse roof. Here's the overall setup. First pic has the upper deck assembly resting several inches back on the deck with the heat shield between the deck and canopy clearly visible. 2nd pic shows the whistle piping and lower stack inside the heat shield. Last pic shows things mostly assembled. [size=78%]
I'm getting close to sea trials II with the superstructure. The trial basin has been in operation for about a month.
Landlocked.
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Damn, where has the summer gone? <*<
I didn't get much of either my fun list or project list done.
I started getting my electronics ready for sea trials II. My 10 yr old NICAD battery pack had died so now I've upgraded to a metal hydrid. Broke out and programmed my P105 from ACTION to let me control the throttle and direction with one up/down stick. Ran into one problem. My forward/reverse servo/Ch4 was setup in reverse mode. Dave M from ACTION clued me into reversing leads so up will stay forward.
As I prepared to fill the boiler, I became concerned constantly removing the whistle piping to fill and drain the boiler would eventually lead to thread problems. After a couple of evenings staring at the problem (while straightening the workshop - but not so much that my wife would notice) the light went off and I changed the elbow to a "T." Not a lot of room but my syringe will fit.
Hopefully next post will be afloat.
Landlocked.
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Well,
We're not afloat but...
It's always helpful to close the boiler sightglass drain valve before filling the boiler. As they say in most Navy after action reports of this sort -- no new lessons learned. >>:-(
Getting closer though.
Landlocked
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Set the boat up next to the garden pond for some sea trials...
Nice roar on light off and then a minute later --- big drop in the "hiss and roar" -- plugged orifice. <*< >>:-(
My decision to extend my forward deck house wall to allow for reorienting the burner was wise. Pretty simple to get to it, but...
Clearly a plugged orifice, no light through the pinhole. After cooling, I blew through it backwards, I could see light now but there seemed to be a bit of fuzz visible. After finding a small but not to small piece of copper wire from some stranded wires -- I didn't want to enlarge the hole -- I removed the orifice piece and I probed quite deeply the hole, but I can still see the fuzz.
Decided to give it another go regardless but every time I tried to light off, I just got a very impressive flame at the top of the chimney.
I need to pickup a gas grill lighter, I went through 2 dozen matches and couldn't get the crack the valve open and light the match (or vice versa) timing quite right. Must have been lucky in the past.
Well, I've used up my play time. Back to chores.
Landlocked
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All,
I need advice.
As reported, suspected plugged orifice on last attempted light off.
Here's what I've done but I still haven't been able to raise steam properly. Stalls out at about 25 psi.
1. Refilled tank -- that seemed to solve my inability to get the flame to pull back to the burner but not a lot of pressure -- No. 10 jet no longer available, Ordered No. 8 jets.
2. Removed Bix gas control valve. Moved gas tank forward with short piece of copper tubing to burner -- Ragged flame at burner. Frequent short blue flames out the slits next to the burner (not the round holes right below the jet). Incomplete combustion, able to obtain a weak flame at top of chimney with grill lighter.
3. Removed burner, replaced jet with new No. 8 jet and tested on workbench. Nice flame extending about 2-3 inches out from burner face with red across the entire burner face.
4. Installed burner and lighted off. Encouraging gentle roar but seemed subdued from last good lightoff several years ago. No flames from side slits but on one occasion, yellow flame from top of jet tube that I blew out. A little wobble of the jet tube as it fits into the burner tube -- should I be using sealant?
Steam pressure stalled out at about 25 psi after about 10 minutes and could not keep up with moderate throttle setting on my TVR1. Previously I was able to pop the 60psi safety fairly easily. Able to hold my hand much closer to top of chimney than in the past -- consistent with reduced heat production.
5. Reinspected fire tube. Everything looked nominal.
I'm running out of ideas? Thoughts anyone?
Ken/Landlocked
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Ken....your comments sound to be mechanical [contaminate] in nature rather than the physical behavior of gas....so just a few thoughts [and assuming the actual placement height of the jet is as was 2 years ago]
1. disconnect the gas tank, take it outside & exhaust the contents to atmosphere.......leave the discharge fully open and invert the tank a few times
2. unscrew the discharge gas valve gland nut, so unscrewing the valve needle......inspect the needle for evidence of contaminate
3. unscrew the Ronson filling valve with a fork shaped tool......[shown below & available from tank suppliers]
4. if there is any contaminate, gently pour warm water with some kitchen washing up liquid to say 1/4 fill the tank
5. swill the contents around for a few minutes, drain into a glass jar and inspect for any contaminate fall out or settling
6. rinse the gas tank with warm tap water a few times & drain to waste......keeping the tank with valves trappings open to allow the tank to dry out
7. carefully reinstall both the Ronson valve & the discharge valve
8. fill the tank & check for flame characteristics as from that day or 2 years ago
9 if the flame is still retarded, remove all copper/brass tubing spools between the tank & the jet
10. with compressed air, blow through all lines with a white handkerchief on the discharge ends
11. place the tubes in a saucepan of water + a squirt of kitchen washing up liquid.....boil rapidly for 10 minutes...moving the tubes around with a fork
12 . take the tubes & rapidly cool in tap water in a glass jar and inspect for any contaminate fall out or settling
13. rinse the tubes and let dry in the sun for an hour or two
14. the burner jet should sit squarely in the jet carrier & once the tightening screw is gently tightened, eliminate any movement
15. reinstall the tubes & check for flame characteristics as from that day or 2 years ago
[an alternate to 11. & 12. would be to place the tubes in a 20kHz ultrasonic bath for 10 minutes]........
Let us know what differences occur & when ;) ... Derek
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Derek,
I agree -- I suspected contamination after the orifice plugged. I suspect there was some in the BIX regulator too before I disassembled it. With the gas tank sitting on the water tank in the bow, I used a 4" piece of tube that hadn't been the circuit before so I thought I had eliminated all existing potential problem sources. I didn't think of the tank valve though. It does seem to let gas spray pretty well when I took it outside just now.
Air temp is 50 degree F but I just looked at vapor pressure curves so I shouldn't be into too much trouble from not flashing the liquid -- tank cooled and had some condensation during the test run but no frost.
Stay tuned.
Thanks,
Ken
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Ken...I ran out of time in the previous post
When your gas tank was manufactured, the end caps & bushings were silver soldered into position......I am sure the manufacturer pickled the internals, however microscopic flux/silica like particles could have still been just hanging on to these internal joints
LNG taken from fuel beds can contain gross contamination however iit s filtered....when Butane & Propane are boiled off they are also filtered
All of that is in a perfect world.......contamination in the real world can occur......[you could also gently tap <*< {with a small plastic hammer} around the gas tank endcap joints
I have read of people soaking the gas jets in ....Acetone :o ??....[or aerosol carburetor clean] I have no experience in this, but only know these jets were never designed for mechanical cleaning
[Post cutting, cleaning, bending & soldering, I have used pump pak Iso Prop Alcohol spray {99.8%} to the tube internals....then followed by boiling the tubes in the soapy water for all of my gas, steam and water 1/8" & 5/32" OD copper & brass tube spools....on one occasion i found a few very small black flake spots in the first tip out of the soapy water]
Derek
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Nothing amiss on removal of gas tank valve. Tool for Ronson valve on order.
Ken
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Weather got too cold before the Ronson tool arrived. Snow in mid-Oct! >>:-(
The winterbreak saw me building my benches. Photos have them arrayed on the canopy. Gluing them in place on the upper deck directly below will be a little tricky because I don't want to lift the canopy off. I have some ideas . . .
I also made an extra simple backless bench for the upper fore deck. My 2010 pictures show two backed benches on the fore deck on the centerline but none of the more recent photos do. For figurines, I figure several on the upper foredeck bench along with some along the rails will be more effective than filling the benches aft, below the canopy.
Next project is dealing with the "smile" along the upper deck seam where the deck and canopy flattened out and lost their sheer curve. Since they're part of the lift off section, I'm getting a pretty good gap/shadow line.
Landlocked
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Hi ken have you tried to burn with the superstructure removed thinking may be not enough air circulation.
Happy new year to all
John
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John,
Good question but not in this case.
At some point, if I closed the front and rear bulkhead sliding doors and installed window, maybe, but I light it off with the upper section off and it didn’t steam up.
Landlocked
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Hi Ken
Happy new year - I've just picked up on your thread again. My thoughts are that your gas regulator may be faulty or incorrectly piped in. The Forest regulator can only be piped one way so maybe if you've had it out it may be facing the wrong way. This will prevent proper combustion as I had the same issue with mine. I also discovered that mine had a faulty O ring which allowed gas to escape which was repaired free of charge by the manufacturer.
Also I have had gas jets block up including a brand new one. The hole is so small it can just be simple corrosion to the atmosphere that causes the problem at least that was my problem. I contacted Nigel at Pendle boilers about this issue and he advised me to blow air backwards through the jet using compressed air. I only have a small air brush compressor but this solved my combustion issues immediately. This occurred after leaving the boiler unfired for 2 weeks as it worked absolutely fine before that.
My other thoughts are - Is the jet correctly positioned in the holder to allow enough air through? Also don't push anything through the gas jet as this will ruin it.
Hope this helps in some way - Mark
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Mark,
Good thoughts. I already had the thrill of piping my Forest regulator in backwards. I jumped it out but I still suspect that it might have gotten gunked up. I've tried a couple of different gas jets and unblocked at least one of them by the means you've described. I think I have some system-wide contaminants that I'm going to have to wash out but I'm reluctant to fire it up inside so that will have to wait till Spring.
Happy New Year!
Ken
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One step forward, two steps back -- no wait >>:-(
I was naive when I designed my removable upper deck. I put holes for the posts to fit into in the bottom of the upper deck. Well, that makes for a lot of fiddling around when setting the upper deck in place... After breaking another post as I finished repairing the last broken post, I decided a redesign with semi radical surgery was in order.
I'm cutting out the bottom, outer edge of my upper deck to allow me to have room to bind the posts together with a layer of wood at the top that will then fit into the now vacated space. I'm starting the removal phase in the picture below.
Landlocked