Model Boat Mayhem
The Shipyard ( Dry Dock ): Builds & Questions => Submarines => Topic started by: unbuiltnautilus on June 14, 2014, 04:42:36 pm
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Magma displacement?
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As it is now nearing completion, information can now be revealed to the public.
I had the good fortune to obtain an Engel Typhoon submarine a few years ago, the bad news being...
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That polit bureu cook / spy, let that damn bomb off inside too soon {-)
'you were supposed to only blow the doors off' ok2
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It was black, pickled, and the internals were....challenging.
My first thought was one of the Refit Typhoons, however we are blessed with at least two cracking good Typhoon models in the UK at the moment ( you know who you are :-)) ), so it had to be another option.
I read Tom Clancys novel The Hunt For Red October way back when it was first published over here. Excellent read. I waited with baited breath for the film. Then I found the world of difference between a good novel and a two hour movie. Still it had submarines, big explosions, and those graceful Oliver Hazard Perry class Frigates in it %% . It also had a big Red October movie prop model and a full size, almost, floating set, each slightly different from each other. Both ugly! What is the deal with the so called 'platypus tail'? Not a pretty appendage.
So, I decided I wanted a Red October as detailed ( very sparingly! ) in the original novel.
And thats my excuse.
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That polit bureu cook / spy, let that damn bomb off inside too soon {-)
'you were supposed to only blow the doors off' ok2
Much more exciting in the book!
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My Typhoon is the earlier version of the kit, lacking the super detailing of the current version. This convinced me that it would be okay to hack this expensive model to bits.
I needed a a super secret silent drive system, 26 missile doors, and a towed array pod on the rear fin/rudder.
But first that black paint had to go.
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The paint seemed to just flake off of the upper hull, but proved a tougher nut to crack on the lower hull and resin parts. I had to resort to an organic paint stripper from the nice people at B&Q. Even this struggled. In the end I resorted to fine wet and dry paper and buckets of soapy water.
The bilge keels were my first addition. These are actually triangular in cross section, and wired through the hull sides, then bonded in place. they are tough enough to lift the model up by.
Also, never forget to make a decent stand. This one will drain off any water easily. it also has four hand holds for lifting the model.
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That polit bureu cook / spy, let that damn bomb off inside too soon {-)
'you were supposed to only blow the doors off' ok2
" You were only supposed to blow the B----y doors off
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The insides of the model were next. There are many systems at work in one of these big Engel kits, ballast tanks with limit switches, hydroplane and periscope retract mechanisms, failsafes, motors etc etc.
All the wires were colour coded....black. Every single wire of consequence was black. Okay, they had little masking tape tags on them with letter/number codes, but that was it. So out it all came.
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" You were only supposed to blow the B----y doors off
If I had a pound ( 1.22 Euros approx ) for every time I was told that at one of our displays :}
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Posh multi-coloured wiring in. Keeping notes as I went.
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No colour predujice there, then...very smart.
Rich
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Still to come, surface detailing and how to do it justice. Those pesky missile doors, the silent drive system, plus much filler and destruction of that beautifully designed stern section.
Need to go lie down in a darkened room to calm down now <*<
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And...breathe.
Rich
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Breathing again..thank you :-))
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I think I am going to like this thread :-))
Subscribed.
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go easy on the beaver tail please :(
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Heavy old boats to lug about. How's your lower back? ;)
I like the Kehrer Typhoon featured in Submarines Models and their originals, which used twin 500ml engel tanks in a tube. Brings the weight down a bit over the glassed in box.
The conversion that Ron Perrott did on Mick Higgotts Mark 1 Engel Typhoon is also very impressive. That beast used four piston tanks in twin cylinders. As a result it has a very fast dive time, about half that or better of the standard Engel boat.
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Heavy old boats to lug about. How's your lower back? ;)
Honestly, not so good. So my best hobby would be model boats and submarines, 100" tankers and stuffing great Typhoon submarines! Thats why I have a crate for Red October. It used to house a 1/96 scale RN County Class Destroyer, nice snug fit. It now has rope handles at each end and down the sides. The model also has bespoke strops, in the box, for launch, recovery...and to get the model out of the box! nothing to get hold of you see, very round cross section and all that.
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Checking through the working functions I found that the forward retract mechanism for the hydroplanes just needed a little tweak and it ran fine. The periscopes retract mechanism kept stalling before reaching its end points. I oiled all moving parts just in case, to no avail. So, in the end opted to re-motor the mechanism. Instead of the 385 type motor originally fitted, it now has a 480 type! A bit overkill in retrospect, but it now has the desired 'grunt' to do the job. Now I have to ensure the end stop mechanisms dont fail, as I could destroy the entire device if anything goes wrong.
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Access into the Typhoon seems to be an issue. The two piston tanks barely fit through the hatch without some pulling, pushing and cursing. Also two of the relay circuits are hidden in the bow and stern area of the model. This caused much hacking to follow...
I opened up a couple of circular hatches fore and aft, with the intention of hooking up the wires to the relay circuits, then bolting down and siliconing in place two circular acrylic inspection hatches. Offering me a good view into the otherwise hidden ends of the model. if I needed to access these areas, the bolts could be undone and the silicone cut away, all to be replaced once any problem was addressed.
Two problems with that plan, one being that my neat circle cut out missed the terminal blocks that I wanted access to. Leaving me to cut a slot radiating out from my circle, not nice to look at. Also, the fibreglass here was surprisingly thin. I then discovered that a metal plate is laminated into the top part of the WTC, around the hatch bolts. Making for a very stiff structure overall. Donut here has now hacked holes into it!
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So, decision has been made by me, for me. Upper structure now fatally weakened by me drilling big holes in it...so hack it all off!
I obtained some 8mm clear acrylic sheet, some already laminated fibreglass sheet, with a gelcoated top surface, also about 8mm thick, neoprene foam sheet for a hatch seal, and about 50 off M4 stainless bolts. Proceeded to assemble a new top hatch off of the model. Then got the Permagrit cutting disc out and hacked the top out of the lovely, expensive, Engel kit, to within 25mm of the top edge of the upper part of the WTC. Using Fibreglass Repair Paste, I then secured the new upper deck to the roughened surface of the original kit. filling and fairing in with filler to complete the job.
Imagine green fibreglass paste, sticky tape everywhere, dust, and bricks and batteries to hold the whole lot down while glueing.....because I left the camera at home that night! So no photos.
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So...nobody says to you today...."hello mate, had a good day?"
Rich
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Now I started playing with ideas for the surface detailing. I tried to simulate the panelling seen on these big subs with a pencil and thin flexible ruler. using a 4H pencil to draw a grid pattern on the bare fibreglass hull. this was then smudged about with a sweaty finger to blend it in just a bit. Liked the look, file it away for future use.
Also it was time to work out the door arrangement for the Caterpillar Drive. Do I go movie accurate, cos the rest of the model wont be. So a quick bit of mocking up in the computer.
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Every day is a good day for someone! If I meet them though <*<
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Got to be some serious friction/binding in that periscope raising system if a 385 (which in itself is overkill for raising scopes) can't manage.
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Piston tanks were next for an inspection, no problems found so greased and bolted back together. The Ballast Tank Control Board was and is a concern to me. It looks to be less than splash proof. So, one clear plastic box full of chocolate later, I had a splash proof cover..mind you, it didn't fit in the model at this stage.
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Got to be some serious friction/binding in that periscope raising system if a 385 (which in itself is overkill for raising scopes) can't manage.
On reflection it could have been the mechanism full of old grease and dust. I had problems with the retract mechanism just the other day, after standing idle for some ( considerable! ) time. This freed up with a bit of PTFE loaded light oil and half a dozen cycles in and out. So I may be re-motoring the mechanism again soon..also the 480 motor is a bit too long so it may have to go anyway.
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The Caterpillar drive needs to be a bit more 'Star Trek' and a little less 'Barn Door', so the big rectangular doors of the movie variant have to go. I opted for circular inlets and outlets, to be lit with a Vellmann RGB Light Controller. This can drive three independent lighting circuits, up to 3 amps each, in a number of cool sequences. So the decision was made to fit ultrabright LEDs encapsulated in turned clear acrylic holders. three per holder, two forward and two aft. Doesn't really contribute to the mechanical engineering side of model submarines, but it does look cool in the dark :-))
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Flash git... ;D
Rich
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Its done now, but I would have just bolted the Perspex/polycab lid direct to the top of the WTbox, and forgone the 8mm laminated sheet. Its plenty tough even with the metal bars removed. You might find Red October will sit fairly low in the water when surfaced.
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Good point I hadn't considered, still its well and truly fitted now.
I have just finished making a couple of 3 position switch circuits for the F14 radio, consisting of a variable 10K potentiometer and two 6.8K resistors per switcher. One for hydroplanes and one for the periscopes.
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Blu Tac is my friend.
All that remains is to select the switches for the functions and attach to the set.
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Star Trek style lighting for the Caterpillar Drive. Consisting of three LED lights per acrylic fitting, one in each corner of the sub. The LEDs were counter bored into the acrylic, then encapsulated with epoxy. All electrical connections were also encapsulated. The acrylic fittings are push fit into the inlet/outlet tubes to help any air escape out and away from the tubes.
The Bow Thruster graphic on the face helps to distract the viewer from looking dirctly into three LEDs and helps with the pulsing effect visible from the ends of the model.
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all you need now are some tri coloured leds to confuse you ?
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Now THAT would cause me some confusion....
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Back to the external modifications.
I decided to move the entire sail back to accommodate the extra six missile doors mentioned in both the book and the film. This would unbalance the look of the four escape pods that flank the sail. Easiest fix..add two more aft of the existing four!
The space left in front of the sail was filled with fibreglass sheet, and the whole lot was faired in with filler. Then I etched the extra six missile doors into the gelcoat, four extra aft and two forward.
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Then came the brutal bit, I decided to streamline Red October while at the same time adding the outlets for the stealthy Magnetohydrodynamic Drive Thrusters :-)) .
This involved removing the classic Typhoon tail fins back to the hull, while adding a bit of surface detail to the hull at the same time. the resulting holes in the hull becoming my drive outlets, once filled and faired in.
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That's really looking good now, skip...keep on keeping on with it.
Rich
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Cheers, much more to follow...including......
Next job was free flood holes in the top of the casing. I decided to drop in 26 Billing plastic portholes strategically into the missile door hinge points. Looking just like I imagined it in the book.
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Bridge windows in the sail were filed out with Permagrit needle files, most chuffed with that bit. The towed sonar array perched on top of the rudder needed to be better looking than the ones seen in the film, especially on the full size mock up, quite unpleasant!
Fortunately, my fellow Display Team member, John, was able to produce a silicone mold from a 1/24 scale Harrier droptank, suitably detailed then fitted and faired in, I was very happy with the result.
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Final filling and fairing job involved the stealth drives inlets at the bow. Using masking tape layered, then filler up to the tape a sanded smooth, I was able to incorporate a bit of surface detailing.
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Nick nacks and stuff next. I added grab rails all down the length of the model, along with panel detail consisting of Scotch Diamond Tape panels, squares and rectangles randomly fitted here and about. Also I had started playing with one of these fast cure silicone compounds you mash together like Milliput, and then force over whatever you want to replicate. I got carried away :-)
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Some of my cast 'additions' included bits from a 1/16 KV-1 Tank, domes cast out of a Stabilit Express mixing bowl, and various strange combinations of bits of plastic, metal etc from my spares box.
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Following on from my success etching the extra missile doors into the gelcoat, I then got carried away. I decided to decorate the surface with much panel detail. Straight edges, squares, circles, ovals etc. Using a set of etched metal patterns for plastic kit work, and a scribe designed for panel line restoration on kits, I got stuck in. I found the panel line scribing tool was of little use on gelcoat, however a three sided scraper and sailcloth needles were pressed into service and proved very effective. Most of this detail doesn't show up on these photos, but will become apparent later.
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Mystery object on the foredeck of Red October. A DSRV from bits of wood and scrap out of the scrap box, an interesting side project.
Also the time had arrived to primer the model. The etched detail is a little bit more visible now.
With the model primered, the destruction painting could begin!
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while all this painting and scribing malarky was going on, I also had to consider the colour scheme for the model. Options ranged from the movie scheme, through authentic Typhoon schemes, via colours used during the Great Patriotic War. My only option was time wasted on the PC...
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The last image won in the end, a mix of movie sub and authentic Soviet waterline pinstriping.
The weathering was, as usual, made up on the fly. This model using 'pre-shading', one of those techniques with cool names, first used by the plastic kit brigade, then hijacked by everyone else.
The plan being to darken areas of the model, panel lines and the like, BEFORE applying the top coats. The intention being to provide a subtle variation of shades, emphasising the details of the sub...well that was the plan anyway...
I started with a dark grey, thinned down wash of enamel paint. Enamels giving me a longer working time than acrylics. they can also be 'chased' into the detail with a thinners loaded brush, adding to the flexibility of the effect. This dark grey was applied with not too much subtlety, in a generally downward direction all over the sub. Building up the detail until the little voice in your head says "Stop!"
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With side one done, it was time to turn the sub round for side two. Remembering to try and keep the effects roughly the same port and starboard.
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Once suitably vandalised with the washes of colour, I 'Pin Washed' ( another one of those cool terms, meaning, get a pointy brush and wick colour right into your panel lines, nice and dark. ) any details I wanted to stand out sharply with a slightly thinned black.
Final job was to cut back some of the heavier washes. Deciding what was too much was achieved with a cup of tea and a biscuit, while examining the model with a critical eye. Then out with my trusty fine sponge sanding block and abrade back the heaviest of the weathering. This has the effect of removing the most obvious brush marks, or at least, disguising them.
Also I have placed one of my trusty stencil tools against the model in one photo. These were used to add extra detail to the gelcoat surface of the model.
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Very impressive, Skip...looks the canine's appendages.
Rich
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Before starting to airbrush the top coat, I decided to use the base white primer for my pinstripe waterline. So out with the thin tape and, lets try a laser level to get the waterline right!
Yeah, great, good idea! Much mucking about getting the laser level with the ( heavy ) sub. then getting the Workmate to sit just right. then finding its best to get the laser at 90 deg to the axis of the sub, etc etc..
Anyway, got there in the end.
Masked the lower hull off at the same time. That was easy, Engel supply a big join line right round the sub, cheers Engel :-))
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Very impressive, Skip...looks the canine's appendages.
Rich
Cheers. We only had cats...
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:embarrassed:
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:embarrassed:
Must be the Toms twosomes then %%
Ned
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That stencil in the picture, skip...is that made by your own fair hand, or manufactured by an outside company?
Rich
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They are from a company called Lion Roar and are LT0001 Round and Oval Panel Scribing Templates, and LT0002 Round and Oval Panel Scribing Templates. A quick search finds various suppliers about the UK and further afield.
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Terrific, thanks so much for that, skip...much appreciated.
Rich
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They are from a company called Lion Roar and are LT0001 Round and Oval Panel Scribing Templates, and LT0002 Round and Oval Panel Scribing Templates. A quick search finds various suppliers about the UK and further afield.
Actually LT0002 are square and rectangular, makes more sense :-)
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Right, this is where it looks fine but all went to pot!
Using a top loading airbrush, I started to highlight all the scribed detail, wrong word..pre-shade would be a better description. The idea being to lay down a dark colour first, followed by successively lighter shades over a larger area. The initial panel detail showing through darkest. Using a mix of Humbrol PRU Blue and another colour ( lost in the mists of time..also dont do this, use a premixed colour, straight out of the tin. Matching the colour if you run out is a bit of a sod otherwise! ).
Notice the initial pin wash black in the panel detail all but disappearing. I should have started with a lighter shade. Still, thats what makes it interesting...mistakes and stuff.
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Next was infilling the gaps with a slightly lighter colour. I was still using a top loading airbrush for this. This took ages and ages to do. Some of the end result coming off in my hands as dust. I was 'tickling' the job, should have been blasting it! Now I would use a cheap external mix brush for this part of the job, blat it on thick and wet.
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With this sort of 'made up' colour scheme, it is difficult to know when to stop. I had to stop when the tape came off for the lower hull. I did not want to leave the tape on for more than a couple of days for fear of ripping of large flakes of the base colour when removing it, and could not have any dark gray overspray on the lighter lower hull, so this set the timescale. Also, no rust...as the pride of the Soviet Navy, and being fresh off the building slip, I decided against any rust...it may still get just a little bit of rust, we shall see.
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Looks great :-))
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excellent !!! :-))
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A little tip when peeling of tape, is to use a hot air gun gently, whilst pulling the tape at 45 degrees. :-))
Ken
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That's something I didn't know...nice one, Ken. :-))
Rich
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Glad you like it. Also when removed, you can run your thumb (lightly !!) over the paint join to bed it down even cleaner.
Cheers
Ken
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she is looking great. you are doing a gret job on her
john
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Fantastic job. Looking very sinister indeed. :-))
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Very nice job, I do love a good Typhoon but what really caught my eye is your Danger Mouse and Penfold figurines :)
Phill
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Very nice job, I do love a good Typhoon but what really caught my eye is your Danger Mouse and Penfold figurines :)
Phill
Thank you all.
I will be doing a thread on my stuffed toy collection if there is enough interest. Starting with my old teddy bear that spent a year in our old conservatory, back in 1973, with a rusty old bike wheel firmly squashing it into a corner. Still has the rusty wheel mark up its back.
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More coffee needed, Skip... ;D
Rich
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Coffee intaked....off with the tape. Pinstriping first. Revealing the primer white, doubling up for the waterline and some sort of docking guides.
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Followed by some subtle green and grey weathering, mostly in a downward direction, to simulate hull bottom grime etc. I also darkened in some of the panel line detail with thin, dark washes of enamel paint, wiping most away with a bit of tissue afterwards. Downwards again.
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Time for a bit of colour..red mostly!
I purchased a set of Soviet stars from BECC, not the usual addition to a sub, but it looked good to me. Also some hatch details picked out in red and white, including escape trunking, consisting of the remolded part of a KV1 tank, painted red, with a BECC bowthruster warning symbol on top of the red and a little tinky widdle red star right in the middle...note to self...'get a life'.
Metric depth markings finished off the decoration, they were not completely blended in to the matt finish of the rest of the paint job, despite using a pretty good matt varnish, the original glossy finish still shows through just a bit.
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Flags next. A soviet Naval Ensign and the classic Red Flag, flown from the bow and sail. The two jackstaffs are removable for sailing, stowed inside the hull where they normally fall through the free flood holes in the bottom of the boat!
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My heartiest congratulations, Skip..that looks superb, very impressive job of weathering. Not too much...not too little...that's as near perfect as I've ever seen.
Rich
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Why thank you very much sir! I have been practicing my weathering since 1982, I feel I may be getting the hang of it...As you say " not too much.." Every new model seems to get just that little bit less weathering, certainly as I used to do it anyway! My only worry being that one day, in the not too distant future, I may have to polish my models before taking them out for a sail.
Not at the moment though :}
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And the final addition to the model, special ordered from Chris at BECC, ( much appreciated ), 'CCCP' logos, Hammer and Sickle logos for the sail, and a bit of Soviet era heraldry for the bow of Typhoon Seven. Ready and fitted for its first outing at Beale Park.
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With the paint job complete, the model went into hibernation for the best part of four years, only emerging for static shows and sci-fi fairs. The good news being that I am now on the home straight regarding RC installation, so Red October should hit the test tank within the month. Then I can expose my weathered submarine to the grubby waters of Canoe Lake in Southsea. then we shall see what REAL weathering looks like!
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And just to prove we can all make a proper pigs ear of a job....what not to do with an airbrush with a top loading lid; let it fall off over the job in hand %)
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Looks like one of the Russian dockyard Mateys had too much
Vodka in his tea break and dropped his paint kettle %%
Ned
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Okay, a question for Engel sub builders; I have a common earth wire running from the cans of both main motors, with no indication of where to stick them (!). Convention would suggest soldering these to the propshaft, but the design of the Typhoon precludes this as an option, any suggestions?
I have never been a fan of earthing components and have never done this in any other model, however the amount of electronics residing in the Typhoon has given me pause. ( Chop it off, chuck it in the bin, pretend it was never there, being my usual response! )
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Looking fantastic [the sub] and a really good read. Thank you. Earth wires? you sound like a man after my own heart. Good stuff, and thanks again.
Phil
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You can run the earth wires back to the negative terminal of your battery. Mike Stothers recommends inserting a current limiting resistor in that wire to prevent a shorted capacitor or brush cooking things.
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How about a brass bolt through the hull, earthing through that to the water?
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Earth wires back to the negative terminal seems just..wrong. I know it isn't but.
Anyhow, the TEAS Dive Control board features two sockets marked Earth or Ground as spares, into which the similar earth cables from the piston pump motor casings are fed, So I assume they find their way back to the batteries negative terminal through the board, so it might well be an 'in for the penny' moment.
What sort of current limiting resistor are we talking about, little tiddler or stuffing great big one?!
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Oh gawd. That story of the Typhoon. <:(
It went something like this...
What's the wire for? It improves signal to noise...oops, what went wrong?...autopsy on a Rokraft 20 Navy...just leave the original wiring as supplied but insert a 22Ω or 47Ω resistor & shunt connect a 100nF capacitor just in case ...oops...send the replacement doodah back for investigation/repair...check here & here with an ohmmeter...the cap fell apart when you touched it?...ok replace and fit a 22Ω or 47Ω resistor & shunt capacitor or whatever.
...the end.
Forget the resistor if it is too fiddly.Just use the lowest suitable main fuse. That should do if you avoid a fault path through servo cable.
A fuse worked in the case of the coffee grinder,the electric carving knife,the document shredder.
No harm done. Just 2p failed polyester capacitors had to be replaced by 20p class Y capacitors and the items had a new lease of life.
This issue is a bigger scandal than crummy smartphone screens but I'm not taking a 5 year old kitchen appliance back to a shop and showing what the Maplin catalogue says in the passive component section.
Goodnight and see you at Bournville, Barrow or Leamington Spa!
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If I read that right, you are suggesting fully suppressing the motors, then fit a fuse in my ground wire from the motor casings?
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Not quite. What Mike is suggesting inserting a resistor in the line with a cap in parallel, or you can just run a straight cable back to negative without either, provided the circuit is fused, so if you do get a short, the fuse will blow.
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Forgive me for being just a bit of a 'potato head' but are we talking about a setup as illustrated, with the rectangle being the resistor and the yellow circle the capacitor? Also concerning the resistor, are we talking about one of those tiddly little 0.6 watt things or a stuffing great ceramic resistor?
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1 or 2 watts will do the job for the resistor. The diagram looks correct.
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Excellent, much appreciated all round, off to that great font of all knowledge, Maplins, tomorrow...better take part numbers with me :}
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Why an RC filter on the negative line of a DC ?
please let us know.
Just Submarines or all craft.
Ned
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Why an RC filter on the negative line of a DC ?
please let us know.
Just Submarines or all craft.
Ned
Dont ask me, I only work here! Lets wait for the experts.
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Maplin, for a resistor, is an expense too far and that is not what I had in mind when imagining Roy's Typhoon.
A ground strap conducted a fault current when one brush to case capacitor failed. A fusible link in the strap from narrow gauge wire or made from vero track would have prevented damage just as well.
hold on.
A picture is worth a thousand words.
Connecting one of the brushes to case eliminates common mode noise. (google that)
That is why car electrics and bicycle dynamo have a wired positive feed and the negative return through the chassis. The motor from a dust-buster vac you would have that too.
But the auto motors or 12v accessories don't ever change polarity like an esc does to an RC boat motor.
You can connect one brush terminal in each motor to its own case auto-electric style but make sure the cases don't touch anything else
Remove ground strapping or motor to motor link.
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Connecting one of the brushes to case eliminates common mode noise. (google that)
That is why car electrics and bicycle dynamo have a wired positive feed and the negative return through the chassis. The motor from a dust-buster vac you would have that too.
But the auto motors or 12v accessories don't ever change polarity like an esc does to an RC boat motor.
Okay, got that. The model has a pair of Mtroniks Vipers, about three generations older than current ones. I am going to run these through a mixer, giving me forward on one motor, reverse on another. The idea of any of this voltage leaking through Mtroniks Vipers is more than a little worrying. Treat them well and they are fine, dont treat them well and they will bite you.
So, I like the vero board fuse idea ( it worked well when I nearly cooked a Multiplex radio, prodding away with the batteries connected, watching the vero board fry concentrates your mind! ), but will isolate all the earth connections from each other and any other sources of voltage for the time being. Get the model in the water and tested, then react if any problems arise.
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I could see the magic smoke escaping from here... :o
Rich
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We just had a discussion here about how electronics these days are sophisticated bits of kit, taking all this eart stuff into account. Until I mentioned that this was German electronics, why make it simple when you can make it complicated :}
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Another discussion just had, and 'no-no' to earthing through the hull either. Possible issues between the earthing point and the Rx antenna.
See, chop it all out and chuck it in the bin...should be my motto. Good Idea.
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I love your approach to the technicalities of electronics, skip...do I cut the blue wire? Or the red wire? Oh, b*g*e* it, cut the perishin' lot and have done with it...
Rich
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Well, in my defence I did try to do it right, you should see me eating a boiled egg....
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The mind, it doth boggle at the very thought of that.... {:-{
Rich
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My theory is that retractable hydroplanes, electronics and sea water don't mix...What I am concerned about (probably with no good reason!) is an electronics failure while I have the forward hydroplanes deployed. In this case could I get the lid off to access the electronics? I dont think so. Therefore I added a bow mounted manual retractor, in the shape of a slotted brass screw, connected via a U/J, to the screw shaft that drives the retract system. Now I can deploy the forward planes at a static show with nothing more than a small screwdriver.
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Problem is...now the upper hull has nowhere to screw to the lower hull, there's a U/J in the way!
Much head scratching over much time indeed resulted in a bit of Three Pin Plug butchery. Taking the nice brass earth pin of a standard UK mains plug ( save these old bits up, they are all plastic and 'safe' these days, hardly any decent brass bits to be had..), get a suitable brass coupling end, in this case M4, tap the top of the plug out to suit, screw the brass coupling end on with a mild steel bolt, and solder together. remove the mild steel bolt from the assembly and screw it to the Typhoons retract mech cross beam.
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That is bl**dy clever, chap...I'd have never thought of anything like that. Excellent...
Rich
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Luckily there is a suitable hole in the deck to screw through, all I needed was some sort of plate to screw to. This needed to be bonded to the upper hull, in the correct place, while the lid was in place, no problem :-)) .
I had a length of brass shaped to take a mini-camera, camera scrapped, brass kept. Trimmed to shape and test fitted, all looked good. This would need proper abrading on both top and bottom, as would the upper hull of the sub. Make the fibres angry in the hull and you have more chance of epoxy bonding.
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That is bl**dy clever, chap...I'd have never thought of anything like that. Excellent...
Rich
Why thank you sir! I find the longer it takes me to build something, the more chance I may have the odd good idea along the way!
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The next bit had me stumped even after I had reached this stage, until I realised I could adjust the plate up and down on its captive nuts to really tight tolerances. Despite this, I still needed to give it a bit of encouragement with a long, weighted bar, balanced through the hyroplane outlet in the hull side.
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All that was left was to epoxy it in place, applied to the upper hull and to the brass to ensure good coverage, bring the upper and lower hull together and stick the weighted bar in place. Then walk away for 20 minutes and dont think about it!
Cup of tea later and I remembered that it would now need to be unscrewed to seperate the hull parts, luckily it all went swimmingly, the hull slowly seperating as the bolt unthreaded, until I could hear the bolt tripping over its undone thread...jobs a goodun!
Bit more epoxy impregnated with fibreglass strands applied over the brass, locked the whole assembly together.
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I managed to get some better photos of the graphics decorating the model, almost all courtesy of Chris at BECC.
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Electrical work continues apace, with me working back from the bows, shortening and tidying wires where needed. Routing them around the hull with cable ties where needed. I want to have enough slack to be able to remove items but not so much that the model looks like a telephone junction box. the green plugs are gold plated connectors from Multiplex, six pin, very useful.
The further aft you get, the scruffier it is. for the time being.
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Periscope connector was next, this is a three pin affair that I decided to hang off of the bottom of the aluminium hatch. This is all that remains of the original Engel hatch, and will be my day to day access into the model. With access for turning on and off both the main battery, Rx pack and 9.6v sexy lighting battery, plus charging access.
With the hatch opening being about 6" x 2", and hydrogen gas being lighter than air, should I get away with charging a 6v sealed gel cell battery inside, small hatch off, without the risk of blowing it all to bits due to any vented gas from the battery?
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The words ''an electricians nightmare'' spring to mind... ;D
Rich
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The words ''an electricians nightmare'' spring to mind... ;D
Rich
No, its lovely :}
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On a slow charge 500 mA or so not enough gas
for a mouse fa*t :-))
Ned
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You have your smarty farty acrylic in that one too ay
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One loves how the old acrylic sheet can be worked for different jobs. Once I discovered how easy it was to polish the edges to make it look proper professional, plus how easily it takes to thread tapping, oh yes..and you can glue it too.
Whats not to like?
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More pictures of wire, as I have designed the switch mounting..removeable to access the piston tanks if needed. Wired up the three on/off/charging switches ( Main power 6v, Rx pack 4.8v and snazzy, showy off lighting effects 9.6v ), and fitted the salt water Rx antenna.
Antenna connection is in the water, using a length of Plastruct insulated steel wire, this was soldered to the red wire, then epoxied and double heat shrunk while the epoxy was still curing..the old sledgehammer cure. Internal Rx connection between the external through connection and the Hitec 7ch Rx, broken with a 2mm Gold Connector, also heat shrunk at both ends.
Everything now wired up, just got to tidy it all away and test it...not my favourite part of the build.
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A couple of problems with the fit out. A constant glitching problem was finally cured when I replaced the Hitec Dual Conversion Receiver with a Futaba equivalent. Now running sweetly with an F14 Transmitter.
The other problem... now call me a Donut if you will but...I have been having trouble getting the front hydroplane mechanism to work properly. It deploys and retracts fine, but the servo that alters the hydroplanes pitch once deployed doesn't work. I have checked the soundness of the connections, all good. Continuity checked the cables, replaced the servo ( since found to work perfectly! ), printed out the wiring diagram, colourized it and have been staring at it blankly for many an hour, and so on.
however there may be light at the end of the tunnel. I have a 3 position momentary switch on the transmitter controlling the functions and all I get out of the servo is a glitch when the planes first deploy fully, I then let go of the momentary switch and the the control goes to the mid position, disconnecting any power to the three relay block which controls everything, now for the donut bit!!
Should I be using either a latching three position switch on my transmitter or maybe even a two position switch, leaving the system energized in either Deployed or Retracted, leaving the Engel electrics to do the rest of the work, enabling or disabling the hydroplane servo? If so, its a proper DONUT moment as I have been staring at the problem, prodding it with a multimeter etc for the best part of four hours.
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...and there may not even be a problem :embarrassed:
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Doughnut
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Doughnut
Beat me to it
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Ha ha yep :-))
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Hi.U.B.N.
As the others have said....You need a 2 position switch ie either there in or
There out.
This is the same set up as my Engle Akula with all the options.
Regards Sub.
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"They call me MISTER Dougnut!"
As above, the three position, power off in neutral Tx switch was to blame. The unit needs to be energized either 'in' or 'out' to work properly. So in went a two position switch and all will be well, when I eventually put everything back into the model. So thats four hours diagnosing a fault that wasn't there :embarrassed: .
Anyway, modified Tx below. The graphic representation of the sub corresponds with 'up-down' periscope control push buttons and 'in-out' hydroplane control 2 position switch.
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Well, Mr Donut...far better to spend hours hunting for a problem that isn't there, than having to find out that there was a problem when the boat is ten feet down and inhaling water quicker than a rock star inhales the white powder. You must be near the cracking open the bottle of vodka time now?
Well sorted, Comrade...the Polit Bureau will be pleased.
Rich
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Well, Mr Donut...far better to spend hours hunting for a problem that isn't there, than having to find out that there was a problem when the boat is ten feet down and inhaling water quicker than a rock star inhales the white powder. You must be near the cracking open the bottle of vodka time now?
Well sorted, Comrade...the Polit Bureau will be pleased.
Rich
The Dead Drop is in the slit in the wall behind the bin, am awaiting contact from Moscow regarding the best tides and moonless nights up at Severomorsk for the maiden voyage...that or our two baths glued together will have to be sufficient ok2
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The giant bath tub :-))
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In the final stages now. Tidied up the wiring looms, fitted the external antenna pipe, checked all the functions...over and over and over again..then once more for luck! all good, so I proceeded to bolting down the big hatch in preparation for a pressure test. Lid down and 46 nuts tightened later. Tested the system again and one of the piston tanks refused to return to 'surfaced' position!
Much swearing followed, then the technical stuff was tried..stick a screwdriver through the little access hatch and keep tapping stuff till it works... that didn't work >>:-(
So, hatch off and tank out.. can I just say, without too much trumpet blowing of course...that the tank was out in five minutes, due to the modular nature of the installation..well done me O0 . Then I sat on the floor for two hours, staring at the tank and the wiring diagrams, to no avail. I suffer from Wiring Diagram Blindness...this causes me to hand off this sort of job to other, more qualified people usually. This time it was up to me....
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So, I quickly established that the fault was with the tank and not the associated electronic controls, good news. however, all the micro switches seemed to be working and there was good continuity up to the connecting plug. So, the only course of action was to start replacing micro switches, it seemed the only option despite everything.
I had needed to replace a micro switch previously, which had failed, this seemed a good place to start. With that one replaced, back to the sub....yay :-)) . All working. However, the replaced micro switch was still working, with no immediate sign of a reason for failure. However, upon closer inspection the fault was found. This switch is activated by the studding which runs into and out of the piston tank. I had replaced a fairly 'soft touch' switch with a stiffer switch, made sense at the time. However, this extra pressure on the micro switches little push button had worn a 'half moon' shaped groove out of the switch, so it was no longer engaging..we learn something new every day!
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All back in the sub in double quick time...genius, remember :-))
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So with this little hiccup out of the way it was bolt down and pressure test time. It seemed to be holding, so to the test tank.
This is at our teams clubhouse and is the now legendary, Two Baths Stuck Together Test Tank...First time in the water (in daylight) it was leaking air from about four points where the hull joins to the watertight box. These needed gouging out and drying and epoxying. The sub could first be lightly pressurised while the glue was being applied, to blow bubbles in the epoxy. Then a sucking action was required ( Titter ye not madam!), to draw the epoxy into the little hole. well thats my excuse!
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More lead needed. Probably due to the slightly higher topped water tight compartment. also, trimming foam I had fitted in the upper lid as per Engels instructions, was no longer needed, ripped out.
By the time the glue had hardened off, it was dark. luckily we have a 500W security light outside, which provided just enough light for the second dunking..and the drizzle helped too ok2 ..
Photos show the extra lead fitted, plus the interesting fore and aft trim issues, probably related to trapped air within the upper hull. I can see why other modellers have opened missile doors in their Typhoons.
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Now I am running out of excuses not to put this thing in the water.....
I have just received two grainy images from the DoD..........
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Interesting :-X
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I had a similar issue with my seawolf, the air would accumulate in the nose section. I solved it by drilling 2 small holes in the top of the nose
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I had a similar issue with my seawolf, the air would accumulate in the nose section. I solved it by drilling 2 small holes in the top of the nose
I will have a look and see if there are any positions I could put extra vents in.
Meanwhile, maiden voyage Monday afternoon! First job was to de-bubble the upper hull. Then shove it to the lake bottom to check the fail safe function. We have a salt water lake so a few extra precautions are needed. With the fail safe function working it was time to 'sail into history...'
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well it steers like a pig! Even with the mixers active, although the mixing function is reduced as more throttle is added.
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There was some very nice light on Monday for photos, so just in case of disaster, many were taken.
With five minutes of going round in really big circles, it was time to dive the boat.
Initially, as the tanks filled, the sub settled by the stern, then levelling off to decks awash. Having initially ballasted for fresh water the night before, I had a bit more freeboard to deal with. Being still afloat with the pumps full..still, oodles of power from the two geared motors, so go for it!
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Following the first few dives I decided to add some more lead at both ends of the boat, also the over pressure function surfaced the boat automatically, so I had to vent the compartment anyway.
The next few dives still needed power applied to get the boat under, but I was getting used to the dive planes and their influence on the running of the boat. the aft planes proving to be very effective, being able to put the sub on the surface very quickly.
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Looks good. They are a bit of a barge when it comes to handling.
Mick Higgots boat with R & R modules had small rudders fitted inside the kort nozzles, and that certainly improves the turning circle. Depends how fussy you are about scale authenticity I guess
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Looks good. They are a bit of a barge when it comes to handling.
Mick Higgots boat with R & R modules had small rudders fitted inside the kort nozzles, and that certainly improves the turning circle. Depends how fussy you are about scale authenticity I guess
As this is my interpretation of a submarine badly described in a novel, anything goes...I just cannot believe I didn't think of that, what a donut!
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Hi! i am not into model sub's myself ( just trying to keep two model boats dry inside is success to me) but i do like yours a lot! Especially the black and white photo's that look like they are full size and taken by a spy hiding out in a fjord ................or something like that. Anyway, very impressive!!!! Regards, Dave.
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Cheers Dave :-))
The 'spy photos' were a pair of pretty duff images taken on Monday, too dark etc. So I put them through a couple of programs on the PC, lightening them, then introducing lots of grainy noise into the image..then doing it again! The Department of Defense would be proud ( if only they could learn how to spell defence proper like!).
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Extra ballast has been added fore and aft. little leaks remedied. Time for the second run to test control with the fore hydroplanes retracted, using aft planes only.
Cut to;
POLJARNY INLET, SOUTHSEA, ext...
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"A great day comrades, we sail into history!"
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The water looks scale.
Makes it very lifelike :-))
Ned
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For it were a cold and windy day on that first day of January, in the year of our lord 2016.....makes for good photos too.
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A little tear in the eye as Red October prepares to sail to waters new, with her next owner this Sunday... Still it clears the baffles for the next project. Such is the way of the world <:(
"Come left three degrees. Make your course Three-Four-zero. Sonar, let me know when we pass fifty fathoms."
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very nicely done, sad to hear that it is moving on to new ownership
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Sad news indeed!
This was a fun thread. What is next on the table?
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http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,27792.175.html
Nautilus 1 is now on the work bench, while Nautilus 2 is reaching the CAD ( Cardboard Aided Design ) stage. Also Nautilus 1 suffered some Jack Daniels related damage on new years eve when I 'may' have accidentally tripped over the ram and knocked it clean off of the model >:-o .
http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,30217.175.html
Then the Type VII U-Boat which is so close to completion its embarrassing :embarrassed:
http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,27263.375.html
Not forgetting SS Ohio, my ongoing project to complete the PEDESTAL convoy tanker.......So, still some cool stuff in build at the moment. Apart from SS Ohio they are all substantially lighter than Red October, which is a bonus ok2