Model Boat Mayhem
Technical, Techniques, Hints, and Tips => Other Technical Questions... => Topic started by: U-33 on August 25, 2014, 03:06:09 pm
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Right chaps, here's a question for you:
I'm building an r/c swan for a bit of fun, I intend to fit the radio/motor/battery/etc in a small watertight box attached to the underside of the swan's body, with the prop shaft glued into the box. The whole box will be removable as one unit, including the shaft (which will be shorter than shown in the pictures, so it won't be able to whip about)
So far, so good...until I come to installing the rudder. The whole thing will need fitting externally, as in the pictures...so, any ideas as to how I should go about that?
(reason for all this is that I don't want to cut into the body of the swan, I want to keep it all in one piece)
Over to you..
Rich
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You need to fit the steering assembly on a platform
stuck to the hull.
When you fit the W/T box you can hook the rods from the
servo to the arms on the rudder.
Ned
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You need to fit the steering assembly on a platform stuck to the hull.
Enlighten me on the platform, Ned..if you please.
Rich
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Just a fairly thick bit of abs stood proud of the swan base.
Clamp the rudder tube through it.
Cut the rudder post to fit and attatch the arm.
Make sure the prop is angled to sit in front of the
rudder blade.
Cant do a diagram as Im on my phone.
Ned
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Think I've worked it out, Ned...a U shaped bracket screwed and glued to the base with the rudder fitted through it.
Rich
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I would have a thickish piece of plastic sheet covering most of the flat area under the swan and 'clipped' to it. Then mount all the hardware and WTC onto that using glue and/or c/sk screws from the back (top in fact). The whole thing is then dismountable without disturbing any connections. Some longitudinal ribs might be needed to stiffen it depending on how stiff the plastic was.
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Now that's an interesting idea, fella...I've bought an OtterBox to mount all the electronics, radio, battery, etc into, and I'm thinking a 2-3mm styrene floor under the box might be needed to strengthen and support it. I've just worked out the rudder mount, built most of it...I 'll take some pics tomorrow.
Rich
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This is a quickly knocked up rudder mount...much to my surprise, it seems to work quite well. I'll screw and glue it to the swan's base in a bit when the glue has dried hard.
Rich
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Thats just what I was trying to describe :-))
:-)) Rich
Ned
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Great minds thinking alike, Ned...I hooked into yours using my long distance telepathy skills. Aided and abetted by a pint of the Guinness, naturally... %)
It works so well, I may just use this one...I was going to build another 'posher/tidier' one, but if it works...why alter it?
Rich
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Well, it's fitted and working...a good splodge of thick cyano and two self tapping screws, and it seems to be nicely secured. Once the OtterBox arrives, I can get the radio gear installed, then we shall see what happens.
Rich
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Another techie question...what sort of adhesive do I use on this perishin' swan?
I glued (and screwed) the rudder support to the base with thick cyano, then went around the edges with clear aquarium sealant. It's been drying overnight, went to check it this morning, and the cyano hasn't really held properly, and the silicone just peels off. Epoxy doesn't seem to hold either, it just peels off like the silicone does.
Any ideas, chaps?
Rich
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Hi Rich,
you need to find out what plastic was used to make the swan.
If its one of the plastics I think it is, then your options will be limited, maybe to plastic welding, but depends on the plastic used.
Once you know that, your options will be clear.
cheers
vnkiwi
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One of our members has the same swan.
If he is at the lake thisaft I will pick his brains Rich.
Ned.
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VNK...it's a sort of shiny, slippery, polysomething (technical term)
Ned..that would be great, I'd appreciate that...thanks mate.
Rich
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Hi Rich
Several possibilities, what type of plastic is the swan made of? what sort of paint is on it?.
Try sanding the surface smooth down to the base plastic, test glue piece, see if it sticks!!!
Some plastics have a greasy finish use a solvent to clean it, possibly acetone will do.
Another possibility is to mount all the components to a base then screw the base to the swan
Regards
Mark
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Rich,
the swan has a moulded in symbol on the borrom, a number inside a triangle, but can't make out the number from the photos.
This will tell you the plastic used.
If its a polypropaline or similar, there ain't a lot will stick.
Then your options are probably what Mark suggested, ie mount everything on a plate and screw this to the swan.
cheers
vnkiwi :-))
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Mark, it's not painted, only the legs and the beak are, so I guess it's moulded from a white plastic. I did try cleaning it when I first got it, but it made no difference. I've tried sanding it to roughen up the surface, but whatever the stuff is, it doesn't sand very well at all.
Maybe the idea of a separate base is going to be the way to go...a decent piece of 3mm styrene screwed to the base, then the OtterBox screwed to that.
***************************************************************************
VNK...you must have very good eyesight, I can't see a number stamped on it anywhere?
Rich
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Maybe the idea of a separate base is going to be the way to go...a decent piece of 3mm styrene screwed to the base, then the OtterBox screwed to that.
Told ya! <*<
Glueing will be iffy. If the bottom of the swan is fairly thick I would use 3 or 4 large (fat not long) self-tappers with a clearance hole through the base-plate. That probably wouldn't leak if the screws are a good fit, but for extra security I'd probably do a trial fit and if it's all OK take it off, apply a bead of silicone sealant around each hole on both sides of the base and then reassemble, making sure the screws go into the thread they cut before. The sealant should then seal between the screw head and base and the base an bottom of the swan.
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Rick
Another thought, using your underwater sealed box, you are going to need some serious ballast, also don't use 2.4mhz as it won't work underwater
Mark
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Rick
Had another look at the underside of your swan.
Why not cut around the inner edge, leaving about 1/2 inch flange, insert all the batteries radio etc, then cut a styrene plate to cover the flange with self tappers and silicone to seal?
Mark
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Right, I've cut a piece of 3mm Lexan to fit, you can see in the pictures just how un-level the base is, but that's what I have to work with, so that's what I've got.
The OtterBox will be attached to the Lexan sheet (not sure how yet, I'll worry about that when I get there) I'm going to drill half a dozen holes through the Lexan and into the base, apply a good layer of silicone sealant, then screw the whole lot together. With firmly crossed fingers, a dose of luck and a following wind, it might stick.
Now...ballast. The swan I looked at in the video I posted doesn't appear to have any ballast, or none that I can see, so that's another ''worry about it when I get there'' job.
The reason for all this...I'm trying my hardest to avoid cutting into the bird, I've done a couple of ducks which I've cut into the backs, and the resulting joins have always looked awful, they never fit any sense again, hence the fitting of the watertight box underneath.
Oh, and fear not...I'll not be using 2.4gHz radio, I have a Graupner 40mHz radio which was earmarked for my Robbe U-47, I'll be using that.
Rich
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I find a glue gun sticks that plastic very well. The only other things that will work is silcone rubber adhesive or a cyano with a special plastics primer. I'd use the glue gun though, as the joint will be very resistant to impact becuase hot glue is fairly flexible.
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Another case for purchasing a hot glue gun, Andy...I'll go take a look round eBay and see what I can find.
Meanwhile..here's the lexan base marked out for drilling.
Rich
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My mate used Sticks like Sh*t and Araldite after a good
roughening with a scriber.
Ned
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That's terrific, thanks for that Ned...much appreciated. Sticks like **** I don't have, must get some tomorrow. Araldite I have...
Thanks again, mate..
Rich
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Just a thought would it be easier if you put the rudder on the plexan sheet too that way the whole unit can be removed from the bird and your effectively building a hull for the bird superstructure to sit on.
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Ned...Sticks Like Sh*t ordered online, there was no way I was going into our village diy store and asking for THAT!!
JB...yes, if I'd have thought about it more, I would have done just that, but it's a bit late now. No matter, if it gets knocked off I will change things about.
Thanks gents...as always, much appreciated.
Rich
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Hi Rich,
Think the numbers moulding, is more mould blemishes.
Being blind,old and decrepit was more wishful thinking on my part.
:embarrassed:
cheers
vnkiwi
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I went over it with a magnifying glass, VNK, and I couldn't see any numbers anywhere. I think you were getting a touch overkeen there... ;D
Rich
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No numbers Rich, mould blemishes they's where. :D
There's two blemishes, one in front of the perspex, one midway back and towards bottom of photo, so yes, very wishful thinking on my part.
So, now I will walk out under the door, and go inflict my frustrations onto the two cadet draughtsmen, I'm currently training at work.
Poor sods, but they where told at the outset, if they can work with me for the duration of this project, (3 months) then they will be able to work with anyone in the future O0
Where's me hat ma coat {:-{
vnkiwi
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I pity your two juniors, VNK!! {-)
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The OtterBox has just turned up...a very impressive piece of kit. Now I can crack on with fitting it out with the radio, etc. Plan is for an Action low drain, high torque 550 motor, Graupner 4 channel 40mhz radio, Mtroniks Micro Viper esc, Futaba rudder servo and a 11.1v 2250 a/h LiPo battery.
Wish me luck...I'm going in.
Rich
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Ned...Sticks Like Sh*t ordered online, there was no way I was going into our village diy store and asking for THAT!!
JB...yes, if I'd have thought about it more, I would have done just that, but it's a bit late now. No matter, if it gets knocked off I will change things about.
Thanks gents...as always, much appreciated.
Mr H. Go to the toolstation or Screwfix 8) down the Drove and ask for the glue that sticks like s..t IT WORKS!!!!! :D
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One step ahead, Mr S...ordered it, it should be here in a couple of days. That gives me time to install the radio and generally make ready for the final gluing operations.
Mr H
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Rich
That motor doesn't look like the one you describe; it should have a flux ring right around the case.
Dave M
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You are quite correct of course, Oh Wise One...I'd taken the ring off for some reason. Anyway, I've changed the motor completely now, it's now got a brand spanking new Carson 'Poison' truck motor installed. By heck as like, but is that a motor, or what?
Being a cocky git, I thought I'd try and stop the shaft spinning....just for research purposes, you understand. ;D
When I hooked it up to the 11.1v LiPo pack, the only research I could do was to find the antiseptic cream and two Elastoplast...I burnt both the fingers I was holding the shaft with. <:(
I reckon it'll turn a 70mm prop quite happily...I'll end up with a swan capable of planing!
Nearly finished it now...photies to follow after tea is consumed, ciggy is finished, and fingers stop hurting. :embarrassed:
Rich
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Tea is now consumed, ciggy is now finished, and fingers...well, they are still hurting <:( but, you know me, I battle on through the pain barrier. ;D
Installation now completed, everything works as it should...well pleased with the results. Just going to test the box for watertightness...
Next job...fit OtterBox to the Lexan base plate, and then fit that to the swan.
Rich
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HI Rich
Bit late now. Was going to suggest put the box through the bottom of the swan, i.e. upside down, less drag and less ballast to fit also no worry of your swan turning turtle.
Mark
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Initially I did consider that, Mark...but I don't want to cut into the body unless I really definately have to.
I suppose though, if I were to cut a hole in the base just a smidgeon smaller than the box, so it's a real tight fit, then seal it in place with this "Sticks Like Sh*t" stuff, that would do the job securely and safely. With the lid opening from the bottom, access wouldn't be a problem.
I shall sleep on the matter... ;D
Rich
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HI Rich
The difficulty i see is the prop shaft.
Mark
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That rudder looks to be a little on the small side given the size of the birdy and underwater bits. Just a thought.
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Mark...I've given the matter some serious thought, and for the present, I'm going to stick with Plan 'A'. If it fails, then Plan 'B' will be put into operation. Now I've got this far with the project, I'd like to see it through to the bitter end.
Perkasaman...you could well be right about the size of the rudder, I used what I had in my bits box, didn't give the subject much thought. I'd like to give the bird a trial swim this coming weekend, so we shall see if I need to change the rudder or not.
Rich
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Ok...OtterBox water tested and perfectly ok (after I found I'd pushed the rudder link rod though off centre and created a pin hole in the rubber bellows)
So...do I just glue it direct to the base of the bird's body or do I use the Lexan base, glue that on first, then glue the box to that? What say you, chaps...any ideas/comments/etc?
Rich
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Rich
Thought we had sorted the plate thing. Glue the box to the mounting plate and screw the plate to the swan, easy to remove to make adjustments, no worry over the glue remaining stuck to the swans bum!!!
Mark
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I was just checking...making sure you were awake!
Rich
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HA, awake i was resting my eyes….. one of our members has a duck fitted with a small spray pump, hilarious when the kids get a squirt!!!!!
Get this finished, need to see it in real life???????
Plastic swan real, what was in that coffee?
Mark
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Done ducks, done a kettle, done a tv set, done a box of rubbish...just fancied a swan. Stand by...next up is an alligator with red led eyes... ;D
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/331180494042 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/331180494042)
Hopefully the swan will be done this coming week, the alligator will be here in a week or so.
Rich
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Done ducks, done a kettle, done a tv set, done a box of rubbish...just fancied a swan. Stand by...next up is an alligator with red led eyes... ;D
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/331180494042 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/331180494042)
Hopefully the swan will be done this coming week, the alligator will be here in a week or so.
Rich
I want one of those!
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They look good in the water... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GjoTGrFVVGY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GjoTGrFVVGY)
Rich
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Hmm...back to the drawing board, it would seem. I did a final bath test this morning...the box is STILL leaking, but I'm dammed if I can find out where the water is getting in.
As someone posh once said...''one is not amused'' >>:-(
Rich
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Replace pushrod/pushrod seal with a tube and blow into the box and watch the bubbles.... air out = water in....
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I removed the prop shaft from the tube, fitted a length of silcone tube over the end, and blew into it. Result...a stream of bubbles coming from where the rudder linkage wire exits the (new) rubber bellows. I'm guessing that the wire is too thin, so it should just be a case of swapping it for a thicker length.
****************************************(ten minutes later)********************************************
I think (think) I've cured the leak. I now have a slightly larger diameter push rod, and I've filled the bellows with good old Vaseline, and cable tied the exit point as well.
It's been back in the bath, and good lungful (or the best I can do) didn't produce a single bubble, so I have crossed fingers that all is well now. It's still in the bath, weighed down to keep it underwater...I'll give it an hour and see what's happened.
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That's as near an hour as matters...the box is now bone dry (phew!) so it's onto the next job, screwing and glueing the Lexan plate to the swan's base, and glueing the box to the plate.
A quick mash of Yorkshire's finest, a roll up, and then it's in I go with my ''Sticks Like S**t''.
Rich
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You do realise you've been testing it upside down.
Won't make any difference of course ....
... but then again ... :embarrassed:
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Gawd, but I hate clever people... ;D
Fear not, old chap...I tested the lid's seal first, the bits that could have produced a leak have been underwater during the hour test.
Rich
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Rich
Im dying to find out if this thing will float the right way up!!!! Will the swan be clear of the water!!!!! Will the cry of What the F**&&^^%<>" be heard across the lake????????
Pleaseeee do a video, we have all contributed to this, PLEASE.
Mark
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Oh ye of little faith...of course it will float, and the right way up...and if my calculations are correct, it will sit quite nicely on the water with just a two ounce fishing weight off to one side to counteract the weight of the battery pack.
Trust me...I was a sweeper driver. We know all about these things...
And yes, I'll do a video of the swan's maiden voyage (swim?)
Rich
(you just wait until I start on Dundee the alligator...) ;D
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I seem to remember a long tail boat needs finishing too. %)
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My list of 'projects to finish' seems to grow by the day, VNK...the Long Tail, a U-47, a Trumpeter Seawolf, a Tamiya Enterprise, to say nothing about a Tamiya Midnight Pumpkin truck and a race truck. All in various stages of completion... :embarrassed:
Any road, the Lexan plate is now screwed and glued to the swan's base, so it's now a case of letting the 'Sticks Like Sh*t' dry off, then the radio box can be fitted. In the meantime...another brew is called for, methinks.
Rich
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Just to encourage you, Uggett, I used the said adhesive to glue some polypropylene spikes to the edge of my garage roof. These are sold in 500mm x 50mm strips and are intended to prevent
scumbags pigeons climbing over perching on your fence panels and nicking your valuables depositing raw sewage thereupon. As if polyprop wasn't enough of a test, these were stuck directly to roofing felt. As the man claims, it really does stick like s**t.
BTW if you think that's a nasty trick to catch out the customer, one of the latest beers on tap in the local has an even more unfortunate name for the unwary to walk into. I wonder how many clots have been caught out asking for one of these?
https://untappd.com/b/totally-brewed-slap-in-the-face/636588 (https://untappd.com/b/totally-brewed-slap-in-the-face/636588)
Good luck with your swan-upping..................... :embarrassed:
DM
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That'd be about my luck, Boss...''ah landlord, a slap in face if you please''. Smack... <:(
A lot of people have said just how good this 'Sticks Like Sh*t' is, so in a few hours we shall see. This stuff the swan is made from is most peculiar stuff, it's shiny, it's slippery, so it's going to be a good test for the glue. I'll go find me a pigeon later, there's loads of the damn things round here, and see if it can perch on the swan's b u m.
Coo coo...
Rich
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Slightly off topic...'Slap in the Face' reminds me of an old shipmate. He was named Andrew, and his ship was alongside Plymouth. He decided to go ashore and visit a few pubs. He rapidly discovered that his nickname, 'Randy', while completely inoffensive in Canada, has a different connotation in the U.K. Going up to an English lass and saying "Hello, I'm Randy!' is an excellent way to get a slap in the face!
Now, about that swan - the plastic might be HDPE, so let's hope your glue holds. HDPE seems to be a difficult material to glue.
Tom
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This ''Sticks Like Sh*t'' does exactly what it says on the tin...I've just checked the Lexan plate, and it's stuck that well it could be welded to the swan's base. I'd never heard of the stuff until Ned mentioned it on here, but I'll definitely be using it again, it's amazing.
When I stuck the plate to the swan, I put a large blob of the glue in a separate place to allow me to check it...suffice it to say it's taken me all my strength (I know I haven't got much left nowadays) but even so, it was all I could do to get the blob off. Very impressive stuff!
Next up is to stick the OtterBox to the plate, then we won't be far off the first proper bath test. Pond testing next week with a bit of luck...
Rich
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The deed is done...OtterBox is now glued to the swan, and the adhesive is now drying off. Once dry, I'll drill through the box and the base and add a single screw...just in case. If the box falls off whilst out on the lake, I'll have lost the radio, battery, motor...the lot, so for the sake of one screw, I'll feel a lot happier.
Stand by for a report later this afternoon when the adhesive has dried.
Rich
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For the maiden voyage, just make sure that there is a lack of male swans around. One of those things thinking that its found a feed or a friend on its territory can be tricky. Whether amorous or indignant, the results are similar for the model.
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Good thinking, that man...I've had problems in the past with geese attacking U-boats, they seem to hate them for some reason, but they ignore nukes.
It's not often we get swans on our lake...plenty of ducks/geese/moorhens and other assorted feathered wildlife, but rarely do we get swans.
I'll have to let Dundee the alligator loose out there, see what they reckon to him...
Rich
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I hope the rudder does not interfere with the prop when hard left or right - I take it the wtc idea went out the window as well, the box will create sufficient drag to stop planning {-)
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Correct...the wtc is now going into(onto?)the Orca. Plenty of clearence between the rudder and the prop...well noticed, though.
Rich
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The swan is now ready to go...just finished off the rudder linkage, so we're good to go. Hoping to collect my new car today, so I can get to the lake and see how the swan swims.
Before I do, I'd like to say 'Thank You' to all those who have contributed to this thread...all the comments/criticisms/banter has all been gratefully received. Thanks guys...much appreciated.
Rich
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Have you checked the box doesn't leak since you screwed through it, Ricn. Murphy's law will get you if you don't, you know it will.
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Mr Murphy and I have had several run in's, Kev, but this time it was Me...1, Mr Murphy...0. ;D
Rich