Model Boat Mayhem
The Shipyard ( Dry Dock ): Builds & Questions => Navy - Military - Battleships: => Topic started by: Ian K on September 17, 2014, 03:52:59 pm
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Hi
I have been building this gunboat model for a while, so thought it about time to pop a few images on the forum.
HMS Mastiff was built at Armstrong's on the river Tyne in 1871, part of a group of boats what became known as the flat iron gunboats.
The model uses the grp hull by models by design, everything else is built from scratch.
Ian
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Magnificent workmanship :-))
I came upon this drawing recently I hope it is of some use;
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Really nice Ian. Excellent detailing :-))
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Beautiful workmanship Ian, especially the gun and the little winding mechanisms on the cowl vents. :-))
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Thanks, Bob and Christian & Nick
Christian, where did you find those drawings, if you don't mind me asking?
I thought that I had most of the available reference material on these, just goes to show there is always something else hidden away!
A little bit about the design......
HMS Staunch, the original 1867 Rendal gunboat, was designed and built at Armstrong's. Fitted with an 9" Armstrong smooth bore, muzzle loading gun. On tests the boat proved to be a sound design, and orders were placed for a further 20 craft, built by different ship yards, with modifications to be made accordingly.
The Armstrong gun on these boats was a 10"muzzle loader, which was originally designed to be loaded below deck. The gun platform was to be raised and lowered on hydraulic screw jacks, one at each corner of the gun platform.
This idea was abandoned for Mastiff and subsequent boats, because the rate of fire was extremely slow, at 6 to 8 minutes per fired round. because of the reloading procedure.
The boat was 85 feet in length, 26 feet beam and a draught of 6 feet.
two sets of single cylinder engines at 200 IHP giving a designed speed of 8.5 knots
Complement of 30 officers and men.
Mastiff was renamed in 1914 to Snapper, put on the sale list in 1919 and sold for scrapping 28.11.1939.
Everything that should move in reality, moves on the model. The gun carriage slews on the rollers, elevates using the rack, recoils on the bed way, the run back winches, have working gears, and when rigged will run the gun back to the firing position. All the locking pins are removable, and suspended on 40 links per inch chain.
I think in total there are over 350 parts to the weapon, all brass, aluminium and styrene. and about 290 man hours to machine and build it.
Ian
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Hi Ian
The full size version can be downloaded here;
http://russiannavy.net/militaryPhotos/engineering/rn/ant_class.jpg (http://russiannavy.net/militaryPhotos/engineering/rn/ant_class.jpg)
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Thanks Christian :-))
Ian
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My pleasure, I suppose you have already seen http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,529.msg55925.html#msg55925 (http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,529.msg55925.html#msg55925)
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Hi Christian,
Thanks for the link, no I have not seen this one. Nice model.
Ian
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Beautiful gun Ian! I cannot praise it enough. I thought it was static but it seems to do everything but fire! I cannot wait to see it complete. Work like this inspires me with my builds. Taa gents.
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Amazing detail on the cannon Ian :-)) ...from the plan view ...it appears that the cannon can slew about 15 degrees to port & stdb.....but all of the loading must pivot on the fwd V shaped bracket <*<.....and are those haul back pulleys under the barrel? or are they a form of recoil arrester?
But you have to question the wisdom of the Admilitary by placing the WC head & WC urinal so close to the cannon........would be enough to scare the sh*t out of anyone on the throne when the cannon fired {-) .............Derek
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Hi Derek,
The slew angle is 15 degrees either side of centre.
These gunboats were really designed to be a self propelled semi fixed gun battery.
The idea being a pair of anchors would be dropped, in a wide triangular formation. Then the boat would run astern about 60-80 feet back from the anchorages.
Then using the large steam capstan on the main deck, winch either the port or starboard chain cable in or out to slew the entire boat.
The forward V bracket is just the pivot point. The actual recoil loading, was taken up by a heavy rope cable running from ring eyes, attached to the lower inside face of the forward curved bulwark. Then through a hole, in the rear of the gun casting.
There are a series of flat parallel metal rods, that run down between the side rails of the carriage, with a forked shape device which applies friction to the rails, thus damping the recoil of the weapon. Remember this is 1871, pre hydraulic damping!
The gun was returned to it's firing position, once reloaded, using the two large geared winching drums at the rear of the gun carriage. The arrangement used a series of wooden pulley blocks and rope, to winch the gun back into firing position.
Mr Armstrong and the Admiralty, made extremely good laxatives in this era of daring do!
Thanks to all for your kind comments :-))
Ian
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Hi
I have included additional images, to try and show the recoil damping system on the weapon.
The forked expanding device, may just be visible. This worked off a cam arrangement, from the large lever, applying pressure to the friction rails below.
The underside view, shows the bracing and reinforced ends, carrying the friction rails.
The minimum and maximum elevation of the weapon.
Weapon sighting apparatus, and firing mechanism.
Rope recoil arresting posts, and barrel end loop, which the rope ran through in a loop. Also the run back winch drums.
I have made some other progress, completing the large boat two part silicon rubber mould.
The master pattern from wood, clinker planked over a wooden former (in grey primer).
The initial rapid resin casting of the boat.
Ian
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A marvellous model of a little ship. An inspiration to those of us who aspire to that quality but in reality cannot manage it. Doesn't stop us trying though. I love the detail.
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this took me back to HMS Warrior, they had a couple of these looking guns, one off the stern and one off the bow (direct inline with the bowsprite so I have no idea how this would fire without hitting anything up front), love the quality :-)) :-)) :-)) :-)) :-))
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Thanks, for the kind comments, warspite & Joppy.
Anyone can build in the detail, with patience, good drawings and photographs. Don't use anything you're not happy with, I make lots of templates and mock ups, prior to cutting metal using 1 mm thick card.
Research is the key to above, although some educated guess work is needed at times.
I have found that sticking to a subject (warships) and era (mid-late 1800's) helps greatly. You sort of get tuned into the Late Victorian way of design and proportion, the more you read and study the subjects.
Ian
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Beautiful job Ian!
I've just got back from a trip to Armstrong country and she wouldn't be out of place in either Bambergh castle or Cragside!
:-)) Tony
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A marvellous model of a little ship. An inspiration to those of us who aspire to that quality but in reality cannot manage it. Doesn't stop us trying though. I love the detail.
Man, I hate people with talent :} . truly wonderful work :-)) .
Mark
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Even the patina of the gun barrel feels right. Definitly a contender for an award if entered in the Model Engineer exhibition.
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Thank's for the kind comments!
The barrel is turned from aluminium, Bored out, and a brass liner fitted. Preparation wise, lightly air blasted with fine aluminium oxide grit, degreased, then etch primed(a very thin coat).
The finish coating was brush painted with Caldercraft Admiralty Matt (metal) Black water based paint.....very authentic looking stuff for this era!
I have been working on my model of HMS Polyphemus recently, so no progress on the Mastiff. Deck planking is the next job, so need some decent time free to make a good job of it.
I may start a thread on my version of Polyphemus, as I am modelling her in her later refit configuration. Rearmed with Nordenfelt 6pdr qf guns and other structural modifications, that is if there is any interest? I don't want to steal Bob K's thunder!
I have made the fore, main decks and flying decks from my own concocted composite, plyluminium. Theoretically a non warping stable material.........I hope!
Ian
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Please do Ian. You could say the same about the duplication of the Partwork topics but you learn more, and it isn't really a competitive environment especially as you are building a model of the vessel in a later guise, therefore we will learn more from the two articles.
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This is a true Modellers model. Simply magnificent. O0
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Hi all
I can only agree with everyone else, 1st class work , amazing attention to detail
Thanks for sharing Ian
Spud
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Hi Ian, hi my dear mate on the hobby :-)
Let me put a couple of bits on the table...
I do appreciate a lot of your jobs on the deck of the small gunboat... That's really nice...especially your efforts related to the gun...
But what was the reason for you to take this stuff from 'models by design'??? It's a real disaster in terms of historical accuracy to the hull shape of the prototype... The same I can say about the rudder, propellors etc. beyond the deck... These nice pinions on the ventilators - these are really nice, but a bit extensive for such a small boat.
Please, take my criticism as easy as possible, but you know - I'm pretty aware of what I'm talking about...
Cheers,
Roman
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Hi Roman,
Yes, you are quite right about the hull. Although it matches the Armstrong drawings better than any of the other Ant class gunboats, that is why I chose Mastiff as the one to build.
The props are only a temporary fit, commercial 4 bladed jobs, just for testing.
I have already made the correct pattern three bladed ones. As for the rudder blade that has already been corrected, with the more rounded convex curve to the top edge of the rudder. I have found more info since those photo's were taken!
There was quite a variation, to the lines and fitting out to the ant class gunboats, as they were all built by different yards to pre set dimensions.
The as built G/A drawings and profile that I have of Mastiff, show a different cowl vent arrangement to that of her sister boat Bloodhound, Which had lower cowl uptake tubes, and were turned manually by lug handles.
I know you know the subject very well, and I take your criticism as intended :-))
Regards
Ian
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Hi Ian,
Many thanks for such a comprehensive response to my comments :-)) . Nevertheless there are still some points I wish to clarify.
Yes, you are quite right about the hull. Although it matches the Armstrong drawings better than any of the other Ant class gunboats, that is why I chose Mastiff as the one to build.
Understood, but my question was more related to the reason-why you have decided to use the hull from MBD rather than to build it from scratch? The deck outline of the bow part is looking quite like a disaster...
The props are only a temporary fit, commercial 4 bladed jobs, just for testing.
I have already made the correct pattern three bladed ones.
That sounds interesting while having in mind that HMS MASTIFF is a 'first generation' or 'true' flat iron gunboat of 1871 and during these times 3-bladed props were not too much in use...2 or 4-bladed Griffith's propellors with a ball boss were the standard element of the propulsion system for the ships of the era.
Are these 3-bladed props could be considered like one of the specific features exactly of HMS MASTIFF?
To 'complete' with the propulsion system I want to add that the prop shafts typically had a casing of conical shape (so-called 'trousers'), and I guess that all of the Rendel twin-shafted gunboats did 'wear' these 'trousers' on the propshafts. What about MASTIFF?
As for the rudder blade that has already been corrected, with the more rounded convex curve to the top edge of the rudder. I have found more info since those photo's were taken!
My concern was more related not even to the shape of the rudder blade but to its the overall design (i.e. number of hinges - which is looking excessive, material of the rudder blade, thickness of the blade profile etc). My opinion on the matter (which is based on the plans and photos of the flat iron gunboats and their successors) - is that the rudder blade was wooden and with two hinges only...
There was quite a variation, to the lines and fitting out to the ant class gunboats, as they were all built by different yards to pre set dimensions.
Absolutely true, but I also want to point out that despite these differences in some details - the general design of the boats was pretty similar. Riveted constructions are looking very nice, but I have a serious dout that the engine room skylight as well as booby-hatches and different housings on the deck were made of iron/steel - even for HMS MASTIFF.
These (like the rudder blade) were wooden...
You know my perfectionism combined with attention to details sometimes is looking pretty annoying ok2
Kind regards,
Roman
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Engineman.......welcome back :-))........I remember your engine build from 2006........was it ever completed?....
However I do not want to pinch this build thread........Derek
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Engineman.......welcome back :-))
Hi Derek ok2 . Thanks for your welcome, thou I did not abandon MBM forum thru all these years.
Yep, a lot had been changed since this post of mine from 2006, and the prototype engine is not fully completed yet... By the way - how is your progress with PS Decoy? ok2
Not to interrupt the thread - there is my small contribution to this very interesting topic related to Rendel gundoats - in general, and probably the best model of 'flat iron' I've ever seen - in particular.
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Engineman.....this is very interesting :o
From your drawings.....it appears that the cannon was retracted then lowered on bottle screw jacks to below deck level ....& only elevated for firing?
[PS Decoy hull was never completed as it is too small form my engine/boiler plant......another day will see a larger hull of PS Adelaide]
Derek
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Derek, you know - it is not my drawing... ok2 it is the drawing from the engineering magazine relevant to the days when the first 'flat iron' was built.
Yes, the gun was stowed below the deck to be elevated for firing only... and it seems that no hydraulic devices were available - since the gunboat itself was relatively small. Probably - there was a small steam engine which used both for capstan 'needs' and for elevating mechanism...
The first Rendel gunboat (as well as some of her other later versions) had no any mechanism for horizontal aiming of the gun...this could be done only by the helm or by the anchor ropes - once the boat was anchored. This fact was already mentioned in one of Ian's posts above.