Model Boat Mayhem
The Shipyard ( Dry Dock ): Builds & Questions => Steam => Topic started by: xrad on October 20, 2014, 03:27:18 am
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Many of these built on many forums. I did not like the plastic hull, so I made a fiberglass one w/poly resin a few years back. Thought I would finish the hull and decking this weekend. The 8oz gas cans are a bit big for this model, although they will fit.I bought a 'small' gas can from local Ohio steam product guy on the net:
http://www.ministeam.com/
many good products. Had the can to me in two days. It holds plenty of gas for the Saito large boiler. There is no water pump in this model. Did not feel like building one in so have to refill for each run. Makes it more fun. While one model cools, I can run the other!
Pics explain the build. I used built up balsa for the gunwales inside the fiberglass to add some thickness to the cap rail mounting point. I use a TVR1a bb, great little engine for the money and a fun build.
The deck has a weathered look with some bleaching. Natural stain w/touch of red oak stain. Wiped and then washed in Floquil thinned weather black, and then hard wiped. I like to always add the light stain first so it soaks in and provides a slight barrier to the floquil, making wiping easier, and not letting so much black color into the wood. Used basswood strips for the deck on top of the plywood (airplane ply and very well made )
A note on decking: found that some tugs have the planks following the gunwales, some are straight off the king plank. I tried steaming the basswood to soften it, but the 1/16 planks were still tough to bend to the curve. Honestly, I just wanted to get her done, so I went with the also legitimate straight runs. These are cut at alternating intervals of the total length (stem to stern) divided by 3 and next row divided by 2. So ended up with 3 boards then 2 , then 3 , etc... this looks good with the rear platform deck (removable to get to rudder post).
Another trick: One nice thing about poly fiberglass combo is that you can heat and bend to correct minor flaws. example: the mid hull was bowed out at the gunwales due to the original mold bow. A LITTLE torch heat(goes a long way) and the plastic was soft, so a few pieces of tape across the hull pulled the edges in to where I wanted them, then let cool and came out pretty god. WARNING: polyester is VERY flammable so be very careful when doing this, and do it outside.
Build note: the first pic shows temporary wood cross braces over the hold. these were cut out later after the epoxy hardened the plywood deck to the underlying frame.
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plastic cap rails go in nicely. Made a marking jig for the 1/2 circle cutouts for the bollards, so that they tuck nicely into the cap rails. I raised the freeboard about 1/2 inch or so from the original plan, and also widened the overall width of the boat by about 1/2in. cleaned up the cast swarf from the bollards. Looking nice. I do wish that they gave better materials for the deckhouses...like mahogany planking...if one wished to stain the works...
I bought this kit for about 270$ a few years back, Now I see it for 379. hmmmm. Not near 379$ in material in the kit,and not very good material either. Plans you can get anywhere and for cheap, or hit the library. Next time I would get Orion Mouldings Homsider tug and build the rest myself.
I rebuilt/replaced the hull, the ply for the deck, all the framing in basswood, the gunwales, the deck planking, and the rudder....the only thing I used so far from the kit are the cap rails and bollards and some of the plans. I am sure for the deckhouse, more kit bit will be utilized....
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Looks great Xrad! Keep up the great work. You said the deck planking was basswood? What are the plank dimensions? I really like the way it looks. :-))
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Looks cool keep up the good work :-))
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Thanks guys! Appreciate the comments. basswood is 1/16 x 1/4 x 24 (42 in a pack) I think from Amazon or Tower hobbies. takes one pack for the deck.
Used acrylic hobby paste to fill the little dips and holes in the hull. Much sanding and to a point where it will look used but not sloppy. Due to the porous nature of the hull, the plastic bumpers went on nicely w/CA. The real PITA was the rudder. I tried three types of glues and epoxy. nothing worked. I could not get the polystyrene fill pieces to stick to the blue super plastic that the rudder was made out of. So, built my own out of steel and copper(maybe it will really rust!). Riveted and soldered together. Milliput to fill some tiny gaps. all will be sanded and then the hull and rudder primed and painted. Came out OK.
roof not glued on at this point. just dispersing the weights so that the sheer is maintained in the cabin skeleton. Now this kit is getting to be fun.
tip: when attaching the plastic 1/4x1/4 bumpers, glue the porous face, not the finished face. Much stronger bond.
also, Testors grey tube filler works great with the plastic gaps.
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Arthur Kill Staten Island tugboat graveyard pics. These offer nice detail; as the boats fall apart, the inner structures are revealed:
http://www.amazon.com/Graveyard-Arthur-Staten-Island-16x20/dp/B00DZYOTT6
http://www.airphotona.com/image.asp?imageid=1017&catnum=0&catname=All%20Categories&keyword=&country=&state=&pagenum=683
http://www.whereongoogleearth.net/2013/05/10/contest-293-answer-arthur-kill-ship-graveyard-staten-island-ny/
If you look closely at the last link, you can clearly see that the decking follows the curve of the gunwales. My relatives lived in Queens, Staten island and Mineola and we were always crossing bridges or tunnels. As a kid in the 70's, I can still remember seeing tugs and barges and the really cool big yellow SI ferries around Manhattan. I also remember seeing many old rotting pilings around different parts of Manhattan, a reminder of how great a seaport it once was.
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Looks great xrad. That rudder is excellent, I will have to remember it when I get to that stage on my one ,when I can get back to it.
Ian
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Thanks Antipodean, The rudder looks much better painted..... Did a few coats of primer today. getting there....
here is a link to google maps showing the tug graveyard. South end of SI. U can scan the sat images and find at least 3-4 more graveyards full of old tugs and barges.....
https://www.google.com/maps/search/st+luke+ave+rossville+statten+island/@40.5561473,-74.2167888,535m/data=!3m1!1e3
this link includes a bunch of cool pics of the area.
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What dimensions is this one ?
It looks small around the steam plant but that could just be perspective.
Ian
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dimensions of what? the tug?
http://www.dumasproducts.com/product_info.php?products_id=237
or the engine:
~ 4l x 4h x 2w Graham tvr1abb
saito large boiler, don't know dimensions maybe 7x3 ish
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I meant the tug but the steam plants always fascinate me.
Thanks xrad.
I notice it is $435 now.
It is a bit smaller than my tug and SWMBO has decreed that steam is not an option.
Ian
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too bad. sometimes you can find a good steam engine for cheap on craigs or ebay.
I just don't listen to my SWMNBN (she who must not be named)...and pay for it later...
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Not knowing much about steam I wouldn't even really know where to start and it would have to power a 63" Brooklyn.
I did see an engine I would like but at $2800 for the castings I will just have to drool.
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Mildura on ebay:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/5001RC-Mildura-Twin-Cylinder-Vertical-Steam-Engine-RC-Reversing-/251676667240?pt=AU_Toys_Hobbies_Powered_Toys&hash=item3a99192d68
will easily power a 60+ in boat.
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Thats a lot of money for a Stuart Turner steam engine copy %% .
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Thats a lot of money for a Stuart Turner steam engine copy %% .
Mark,
I remember reading some where ( may have been this forum ) that the people in Os who make and market these engines when challenged on the design of their "CLYDE " in line twin Oscillator denied that they had copied STUART's design and that their design engineers took 4 years to come up with the design.
I wonder how long it has taken them to design the D10 look alike ?
George.
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Thanks xrad, very helpful indeed and now I can start saving for this I think
http://www.ebay.com/itm/4073-4-Horizontal-Boiler-Mildura-RC-Reversing-Plant-Assembled-/251676706228
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At those prices I would be thinking of buying shop equipment and making it myself.
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Bonjour,
If I am right, the Mildura is a 20 cm3 machine like the D10 ==> requires a powerful heater and a large boiler or a coupled water pump. My Jan is a tall 1,20 x 0,32 m tug and it has been a challenge to install it inside (but it can pull me with less than one bar, see HERE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7l_-js-fX_I)).
With only a 5cm3 AL5 machine, my Paterson tug is already very powerful and has a good autonomy my its 100 x 180 mm boiler, see THERE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9hN4i6FjPfw).
Just to say that I note that we do not need either big machines to propel our "fat" babies.
And for information, do you know Anton (http://www.anton-vapeur.fr/), JMC (http://jmc.vapeur.free.fr/) or Typhoon (http://www.typhoon-motors.com/)Motors French manufacturers ?
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Sorry for hijacking your thread xrad.
I am eager to see how you build the wheelhouse as I have to still figure out how I will do mine, American or English.
Look forward to seeing more build and sorry once again
Ian
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Very nice tugs Rhavrane! As far a D10 copy, there are some similarities (same as tiny power version), but, for 1100$ ebay price, you get the fully independent eccentrics and reverse links, and the engine is ALL bronze, stainless, except the crank. Used Stuart twin marine(which I think is a better engine than the D10) with reverse gears in OK condition go for at least 700$, if you can find one. If you buy the machined D10, you still have to get the reverse gear. These are sensitive parts to machine. Unfortunately, as far as I know, the Stuart Marine is not offered as machined kit, which would be nice.
Steamboatmodel: it seams that getting the shop equipment is cheaper, but obviously the basic small mill and lathe run about 1200-1500$ for the pair (little machine shop) PLUS all the tooling, plus you have to learn how to use it. I purchased the machine shop equipment because I have about 10-12 steam engines and a few in progress. It's nice to have the shop kit to make all kinds of fittings and parts as needed, but the equipment is not necessary as you can get anything on the net these days.
as far as the wheelhouse, That will have to modified as I do not like the plastic parts. I am going off the pic below, found on the net and I don't know who initially posted it. It show much detail for the 'brooklyn' type tug as they all fall apart. You can see that the wheel houses were two level high of wood located on top of a steel deckhouse.
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Bonjour Xrad,
Also sorry for hijacking again your topic (I enhance my English vocabulary :-)) ), but do you know the Reeves Warrior MK3 ? It is also a full brass D10 like machine and I have had the opportunity to find one (never seen before in France) it is a "bomb" despite its leaks as old second hand machine, see THERE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kzu3YQDqUl0) .
(https://imageshack.com/i/77reeveswarriormk3j)
And the wooden wheel house is a surprize for me,searching "US tugboats" on the Net does not give examples...
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I don't mind 'hijack' Skipper, as long as its steam related! I know of Reeves, but not that particular engine. It is very nice and seems to run smoothly. These were primarily New York harbor rail tugs moving train barges..something like 500 or so built..~1890-1930's. Maybe two or three left....maybe. Mildura is only a 10.8 cc engine(both cylinders included). About the same size a Stuart Marine engine
reminds me of:
http://www.tinypower.com/store.php?crn=56&rn=318&action=show_detail&PHPSESSID=707f32a4a27a3e738d2da17926749426
Did some more work. Rough paint, to be finished later with air gun washes. Deckhouse main structure finished. Had to section the poly sides because my deck sheer is a bit more than the original plan. Belt sander I used in my boiler build works great for easy sanding of the curves. Tip: heat the front poly piece with a torch 'just a bit' and it will form to the curve nicely.
Rudder looks better now. The wheelhouse will probably be planked like the b+w pic above as the poly form was not well stamped and only one window came out. Easier for me to build out of wood.
Tip for waterline: I use a level across the gunwales and measure up from flat surface as a double check. Also, you need to be aware of fore-aft balance as well. Usual marker taped to block works well. make sure marker sticks out far enough to get in deep under stern. Not pictured is upright hull with drawn waterline....pic is just showing tape line. Black sharpie works well for black hull.
For those of you who have built this model, you can see the two ribs I put in the wrong spot for the deckhouse. these fit better here for my widened hull.
One important thing that Dumas forgot! The cowl vents. one on each side near the funnel. Should be fun to make them.
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Kit detail: the laser cut parts are pretty nice, but laser did nut burn all the way through on many. The port 'holes' all need to be enlarged...use 1/2 drill and gently widen them. You will need a micro drill set for the rails... .031 or something. The 'super blue' plastic does not like to stick w/CA(even after cleaning with alcohol and sanding surface). There is a protective film over the outside surface which has to be removed before painting. You have to cut the door out yourself, no big deal. Trim them all at the same time so they are same size. Need to add some additional supports to deckhouse to make it more sturdy, no big deal. Primed grey ready for 600grit sand and paint. I left out the windows in the portholes because this will be a steam engine, and need to get some O2 in and heat out.
I will not be using the supplied poly deckhouse roof. Going with 1/16 dean's plywood and planking, like original roofs in rotting tugs pics.
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That is looking soon coold.
Love the USA tugs
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Thanks! :-) She is coming along bit by bit....
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1 1/4 copper elbows and some aluminum pipe to route the stack. Looks bigger than it is due to photo angle. Machined up a brass spacer to get the 1 in aluminum pipe to fit the copper pipe. I thought the long pipe would inhibit the burner but it works fine. Aluminum pipe for the tall part to save weight. Thin brass outer stack will be permanently mounted to deckhouse so the whole unit lifts off. Also, the elbow pipe is easily removable from the boiler.
Small brass tube is for the pop off valve on boiler. Silver soldered to the last copper elbow.
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Bonjour xrad,
I note a long chimney. Did you already test it ? I have had a bad experience with an equivalent (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KPt0ouL8kzc), even without elbow, I have been obliged to cut it several times to find the appropriate length which allowed the burner to run correctly. Hopefully, the chimney of the model is wider than the boiler one, so, even if it becomes hot, it is not damaged (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHzRNcT_Yz0).
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it would take 1100 degrees to damage chimney, so no problem there. Yes, as described above, tested and works very well. Actually, it probably keeps a bit more heat in the boiler, which steams fairly fast.
The reason I did not make a short boiler chimney is that the condensation would run down the outer chimney and into the model, this way, it runs into boiler smokebox and is steamed back up and out of the stack. A tight fitting baffle and a short boiler stack could have been built, but the fitment to the deckhouse chimney was too difficult to make leak-proof.
Condensing tank outflow runs into the first elbow, poly tube not yet hooked up. So this condensate will also get steamed up by the boiler smokebox.
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Nearly finished with the pilot house. tried to make it prototypical with wood boards. will have some controls, windows, lighting, and a skipper.....eventually
Stained the upper deck a dark red. looks good. will post pics soon.
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The super 'blue' plastic (clear when blue protective removed) is probably a polycarbonate lexan type so I will try some zap poly glue for windows. I built window frames for each so if not glued, windows will be held in by frames.
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a bit more work. second bottle of Ca...fingers like cement(I have no more fingerprints).... :o
Still test-fitting everything at this point.
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:-)) tip-top
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Thanks Bernhard. Some more work. I did not solder every stanchion, not necessary. just the rear 5 , front 4, and middle one on each side. You can see how I hide the stack mounts. Light pole base is machined from brass and bolted to the deck. the pilothouse will be screwed to the deckhouse, removable so that the wiring can be accessed if needed.
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Lovely! :-)) :-)) :-)) She's really coming together now, and I love your deck planking.
I empathise with you about the CA - it sometimes seems that more of it gets picked off your fingers than goes on the model. If I wanted to commit a crime I would make models with CA just to make sure I left no fingerprints behind!
(For any government agency monitoring this - I do not have, nor have I ever had, a serious desire to commit any criminal act. Just so you know. ;D )
Greg
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Thanks Sailorgreg! Some more bits: machined up a brass spotlight, chrome paint inside, flat black outside; top rails (stanchions not in kit, from harbormodels), antenna, fire monitor yet to be installed. Some tugs had pilothouse rails, I like the look so I added them.
Dinghy is from kit(but only came with vac formed plastic. So I braced on the inside and covered in fine cotton cloth (rough thread, stained with tea, and tied down per prototype.
more to come....
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That tug is full of character.
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Thanks, that is my aim. Coal bunker covers installed. They should be level with the deck, so had to modify a wood hole bit so that it chiseled off the planks rather than drilling a hole. This was done by grinding off the edge points. Worked out great...except that I miss measured the location of the 6 center holes by 5/16th inboard. Dropped a few F-bombs on that one! I was very upset over that mistake........
anyway, they look good...
the kit was missing 4 of the small cleats, so had to make some up out of brass...
all metal bits attached to deck have fixing pins drilled through so that they are more strongly attached. The deck is not sealed yet so that the CA can penetrate. drips inside hull are from the deck epoxy dripping down . next time I will use some paper protector or similar.....painted inside a lite grey and sealed with testors dullcoat.
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;).... a simple understanding to your miscalculation is as follows >>:-(
1. 5/16"= [0.0625 x 5 = 0.3125"]
2. or about 1/2 the diameter of your little finger
3. or about 0.3125" of red wine left in the glass]
You are doing a great job........... O0 .... Derek
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That is coming along nicely, great work there.
I wouldn't say the measurement episode was a cause for expletives, it was just unintentional personalisation :}
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Thanks fellas! :) Tried a pull-pull cable system with chain and quadrant (like original), but unfortunately , not going to work. Took 5 hours and x2 trips to hobby store. Fit a 'Z' bend solid link to servo in 10 minutes, works great.
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Spent some time on the RC side of things. I use a Tactic x490 2.4 Ghz 4 ch from Harbor models. 70$. Does not come with receiver or instructions. I took the transmitter apart and lightened the spring rate (internally adjustable). I was going to remove the stick control springs (and convert to resistance) so that steam gear position and throttle position did not use spring return, but after running a while, spring return to full stop is nice.
Actually, its a 3 servo channel and one switched receiver. and only two of the servos will do full travel. the third servo channel is really for an ecu and does full travel in one direction and about 1/2 travel in the other direction (reverse). So I use full servo control for rudder and for F/R of the Hackworth gear. I use the full side of the third servo control with spring cushion for the throttle off the steam dome.
I have power running into the fourth channel, but could hook a relay to run lights or something. Anyway, I love this radio. No crystals, one button connect to radio. can easily switch from one receiver or radio to another and press one button and they are linked. Nice! and only 70$ (plus receiver etc..)
Radio only needs 4 AA and receiver only needs 4 AA so easy on batteries. I use one of these in another boat and have had ZERO issues and absolute full control all over the pond.
On to the steam engine. Installed, servos installed, links installed, superheater installed, adjustable burner mount machined and installed. Rough plumbing for the condenser... runs pretty well out of the box...have to shim the engine mount a bit as the hull changed shape slightly after deck laid.
first run vid:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_FIshrnKJ0&list=UUYQskpmHyALB5hsentYB_6g
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some more work (pleasure):
Made some cowl ventilators. Could not find the correct size or shape, so hammered some copper and turned some brass.... Not the exact shape I was looking for, but they will do (and functional too!)
Another mistake on the plans: life boat davits have to be further apart than the length of the lifeboat. Added some functioning double blocks. Stack stays adjustable with functioning turnbuckles. I use Proctor rigging wire #202 and their cable crimps..very nice scale wire. Don't even know if Proctor is still in business(they made some VERY nice WWI aeroplane kits)....
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I am going to modify the lifeboat block straps. They can look better. It takes about 60 seconds to fill the small black gas tank. That, with a full boiler gives me 20+/- minutes of steam time (after pop-off and of course depending on use).
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Would love to see a video on the water. :-))
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water vid soon enough.... :-)
Found some pics on how I made the fiberglass hull. I used polyester resin and spray wax release. worked well enough. Quick and easy way rather than plug and mold.
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Some more completed. Fire buckets do not it the rails. most of the tug pics I have do not have the buckets anyway so left off for this build. Its a real shame the Dumas cheapened their kits by getting rid of the photo etched parts (I think are replaced by laser cut ply...which is done well) and the fiberglass hull, and now charges more for the kit. There are not too many fiberglass hull kits of workboats below 500$. Plenty of fiberglass hulls 'only.' However, even given the said 'flaws,' I found this kit to be a VERY worthwhile build. Both for the challenge and the fun of modifying as desired.
So far, ~100 hours in the build. ~ 1000$ in steam boiler/engine/ gas tank/ fiberglass/resin/extra wood/fittings/Tx-Rx/ original kit/ etc....
Not done yet, have to apply the washes.....
As a side note, I bought an aquacraft Rescue 17
http://www.aquacraftmodels.com/boats/aqub5700-rescue-17-fireboat/index.html
This is an all fiberglass model, even the deckhouse and hatch covers are fiberglass. These main parts painted, not colored plastic. can't tell by the website pics. Fairly good detail for the price. The most expensive bit was the lipo packs. I bought two 5000Mah 11s packs (no name brand Lectron Pro ~60$ each..supposed to have the same cells as Traxxas at half the cost...I have had no issues charging or using them..balanced ,too). I get nearly 30 min run time (total run time ~1 hour) at full throttle nearly all the time. this is a super hull design and does a near scale speed. makes a nice wake. The 2.4g tx and rx worked perfectly (which is why I bought another setup and more Rx's for my other models). Some of the detail like the rails are more toylike, but overall I am very pleased with this boat. It's my backup retrieval boat if needed! And I could put out steamboat fires if needed! This is a good sized model. Fast enough for fun, very stable, and a great beginner boat for kids.
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Almost done :-)) A few small deck details to do...
used my airbrush. Sprayed some rust, and washes of light grey, black, and sepia. had some dribble here and there as the sepia did not want to thin all the way. Light rust all over hull. Other colors came out fine. Hard to tell by the pic (real bad fluorescents ). Looks really worn and used in real time.
Various tire sizes ; tires worn down on my grinder. Gave two coats all over of testors dullcoat. this really helped blend in the ash color of the light grey wash. Next nice day, out on the pond...
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Looking forward to pics of it on it's maiden voyage. Looking really good, even if you do say the lighting is bad.
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Now that really looks like a working tug fab. :-))
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Thank you SteamUp and Antipodean! If you liked that one, you will love this pic. flouquil weathered black (the best weathered black I have used) surrounds rust scrapes; scuppers hand made from brass, oozing rust and dirt, rusty chains; and hand woven jute line with flayed tassels (w/some seaweed for good measure!)
Tip: for those of you new to painting, I think that what makes this a great model to build is that you can 'Age' the boat. I was shooting for end of life steamer. In order to get the aged look, it takes time. primer, original hull colors, some light ageing, repairs, dents, weathering,4 washes, touchup, repainting base colors in spots , rust, and re-covering with spot touch=ups. final coating with testors dullcoat as a protectant and to bring down any highlights...kind of levels the finish. Also, Painting done above and below the waterline. It is not all done in one sitting. probably took at least 2 weeks altogether. It's like writing a story, you keep going back and rewriting and rewriting until everything sits well.
Still have a few more little things like axes to make and a few 1/32 seagulls...but 99.9% done!
Planning next project which could be a pilot schooner...or a model bash of a mahogany 1930's racer...or maybe a steam trawler that needs completing...who knows....
Hope you guys enjoyed the build.....
I will try to post better pics soon. And of course, once the weather warms up, out on the pond for some steaming :}
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xrad.......I have been watching & reading every posting in the build O0......
The last image takes the cake.......congratulations of the final weather worn image ..it is also very warm :-)) Derek
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I have enjoyed your build very much looking forward to that video (just put a hat on lol). :}
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Weathering par excellence.
Waiting for the wet run :-))
Needs a foggy lake/pond and
a low low camera to really show
her off.
Ned
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Wow, thanks guys! Really glad you enjoyed it. Absolutely finished now with rope and axes and life preservers with proper mounts and all. Also fine tuned the throws on the servos for the F/R gear on the engine. Needed to make servo arm extensions to get the right ratios. And the 'spring return' to neutral and 'steam off' is a nice feature that I am getting used to and liking. I can just fire her up in about 5 min to steam and easy peasy, runs smooth F and R! Just waiting for a nice day now for better pics...should be sometime in April....
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April April we can't wait till APRIL >>:-( >>:-( >>:-( LOL.
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Started a stand.....need to trim the foam a bit more....
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done......for now....
TIP: Lay the keel blocks first, sand down where needed and get the keel to lay well. Then, I drilled 1/2 way through the base w/ 5/8th wood bit for the third support log from the front( one on each side). Then ONLY these logs were cut to perfect length to keep the hull from heeling, fitting them into their respective holes. Marks made for the other 5 posts on each side. Then I drilled all the way through the base for each remaining post at the marks. Beveled one end of each log to abut the hull, and passed the log up from the bottom of base, cut to length, and then glued in place(save the sawdust/chips for dressing up the log bases). REAL easy to get all the other logs perfect length with this method! All logs are 5/8th except the rear logs, which are 1/2.....then a little airbrushing and some ho scale grass....
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Nice idea. I should try that for my tug as well.
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Thx KNO3.
Tug and launch on display at major local business. Much interest, but I don;t think it's enough to start a local model boat group. Poor pic quality due to my flippy phone...