Model Boat Mayhem
The Shipyard ( Dry Dock ): Builds & Questions => Pleasure boats, Sports, Race, Power and Leisure Boats: => Topic started by: xrad on December 22, 2014, 07:58:16 pm
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Hello, All, After some intense steam builds, I am taking a break to lightly concentrate on a cool conversion. I am using a 'Tantrasway' ebay mahogany hydroplane hull and converting it to RC.
This is a great looking boat. You can find it for sale for as much as 700$. Not sure who would pay that though. If you search the web carefully, you will see this exact same boat sold by several vendors. It comes in several quality levels (such as finished hatch undersides, and paneling of under-hatch areas. Also, different steering wheel covers, and gauges. Additionally, the brasswork is better on some models than others (ex: mitred hatch edge vs straight cut). the seats are stitched vinyl over foam(very nice) .
Definitely saves me some time in the build and for 190$ + shipping, this is a great model to use. It is plank on frame and the inside and outside are resin coated. The inside is quite rough as would be expected, but the outside finish is excellent, and the gentle curves and proportions are well kept. It measures 38 inches stem to stern. There is no stuffing shaft hole. Comes with decorative rudder and propeller, which are useless for conversion. Out of the several already built 20-30's boats, this is the largest and best looking version for my rc conversion.
The boat has a hydroplane tunnel hull, deep dark green bottom paint, and very nice topside finish. Also, there is a flat transom so that mounting a rudder is easy.
Here is a pic of the boat. Fast shipping(Vietnam to my door in under two weeks!) and very well encased in foam. I am using a 2.4gHz tactic tx rx, 600 size 12v motor, lipo esc, and about a 40mm 19pitch prop (2 or 3 blade) More pics and description of the build to come.
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Much progress. now running trials in the tub!
Pics say a thousand words. you will be unwrapping this one for about 40 minutes. Have to remove much lumber from interior. To drill the stuffing tube hole, make a guide block and get a 1 ft long 1/4 drill bit. prop location based on designs of the time. takes a while to get the tube aligned. work from both ends. I kept the shaft angle as low as possible to the hull. It is a ~11.5in 4mm robbe stuffing tube (just long enough) with 3/16 adapter so that I can choose from the many octura props. stuffing tube strut silver soldered piece I cut from the original almost useless part. You will have to patch a few more unneeded hull holes (sticks and stems epoxied in where needed).
engine mount is plate aluminum sitting in plywood and Ca and epoxied into hull. Battery velcroed to ply base.
The business end is using large adjustable aluminum trim tabs (very nicely made) and large rudder (very nicely made)from Offshore electrics. hammered bronze paint.
Parts list:
Octura 21/40 three blade prop (spares include 1740/3 and 1938 ) 13-16$
rudder ose-80057 24$
dubro seal: dh-3108
adj trim tabs: ose-80925 29$
standard servo for steering 10$
Power: to make life easy, I used a known entity, Aquacraft Rescue 17 parts
Lipo 3s speed control (12v) 50$
600 motor: Low speed, high torque 12$
2.4Ghz rx and tx (extra receivers 25$ and take a second to link to any Tx)
Rescue 17 rubber shaft coupler (note that the holes at each end are slightly different diameter requiring me to machine the prop shaft to correct diameter for the one end, and the other end of course, fits the motor shaft perfectly)
cooling tube, aluminum wrapped around motor
with everything where it is, almost perfect balance. The three blade puts out a good amount of thrust. Pond vid soon....
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All through hull holes are sealed with shoe goo on the outside and Ca in the inside. Rudder servo rod runs length of boat through three bulkheads and the engine mount to help keep it from flexing. Not sure if the there will be enough force to get the cooling water up to the engine, but will find out.
will add a few holes for cooling air under the front scoop. Also plan to add a few pieces of closed cell foam up front. Unfortunately, had to cut a hatch into the rear deck. This can be done carefully with x-acto saw blade. Will make mahogany trim for it.
More pics of build:
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Wow, what a nice conversion job you are doing on it.
Len.
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Looking good. That is some heavy looking kit at the stern.
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hey fellas! Thanks! Antipodean, what are you doing over here..no steam for you! Looks 'heavy' but parts only a few ounces. Trim tabs may be a bit oversized, and rudder a bit long, but hardware similar to this was on some racers of the time. I just visited the antique boat museum in NY(thousand islands) and was surprised at how advanced some of the hardware was. Milling a mock-up engine to cover the big midship hole. all aluminum. Here is top view of the drawing I made. Just ordered 100 shiny 2mm acorn nuts.
Can anyone guess the engine?
unfortunately, can't post an 80mb image. I was able to post a 4mb image! Always hard to post images , even with the new server. will try again.....
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trying again, 89Kb...worked this time...... Anyway, can anyone guess the engine?
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:-)....... XRAD.......
British V12 Merlin engines had the spark plug locations on each respective side of the engine heads
American V12 Packard engines had the spark plug locations on each respective top of the engine heads
The image of your engine suggests it is a V16 :o....and the plug leads locations to the plugs on the tops of the heads O0
So my guess is an American built V16.....
Remember that the American Packard V12 engines were also supplied to be installed in the British Spitfire aircraft............ Derek
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Looks more like a V8, twin distributors on the ends of twin camshafts.
A purpose built racing engine, two spark plugs per cylinder.
More like a Ferrari, or similar style %)
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Well a happy NY to you VNK :-)) ....
If we go back [via Google] to the early 1900's .....we don't see too many references to twin plugs per cylinder......
Apart from that the plug lead spacing in the image appears relatively uniform over the length of the blocks
Mind you I will happily eat humble apple pie O0 if it is a V8................. Derek
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Not just wanting steam xrad, I have a set of plans for a 48" triple cockpit barrel back somewhere in my pile of things to do.
I look forward to watching the engine cover make it's appearance.
Just moved house so I may be able to get my workshop set up and actually get back to work.
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Happy New Year Derek, to yourself and yours. :-))
If period, the engine could have been one of Miller's, or as you think a Packard.
If non-period, could be anything >>:-(
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Happy NY everyone. Nice to see the steam team over here !
American V16 Harry Miller design with supercharger. Single plug per cylinder. dual cam driven distributors. This will look great in the John Hacker 'Zipper' boat. This was a 1930 design and quite an impressive engine when you see it compared to a 1927 Ford four banger(see pics). Not to say that the Ford was less of an engine(it was perfect for mass consumption). Rather to show that the Millers were supreme art and function and at the extreme of engineering at the time. Make for great models, too!
2x2in aluminum bar machined down to a 54 degree block. 4 3/16 length. Will have double overhead cam heads, and then get polished up so should look good. The block is about 1 inch too long to mill on the Y axis, so make a jig so that easy to mill all angles with quick loosening of top clamps. This is a Microlux R8 mill. I bought this one because crank divisions are at .050 per turn which is easy math in my head. It has several other great features and is perfect for model building. Been using this for over 3 years without a hitch.
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Very nice piece of kit.
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That a nice set of Millers in a Gar Wood boat. I think this boat sold a few years ago at auction. can you imaging screaming down the lake with two open pipe V16's at 6000rpm?!?! Must have been quite a site in the 30's and still would be today....... %%
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Agree, and Miller and Offy created some very nicely engineered engines, quite on a par with European style engineering.
Looking forward to seeing your boat finished and on the water, so keep them photos coming.
Derek, you got it right with your V16 suggestion O0
All the best for a fantastic 2015
:-))
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Almost finished the cam chain covers. Milled from one block and sliced off like bread:
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Starting the new year off right. Rough mock up of parts. Machining the supercharger w/ a 360 indexer. Still have the heads, mounts , and plenty of small bits to do. this piece of aluminum has a grain that I can really feel when milling. A few squirts of WD40 really helped, especially when slit sawing the big block into smaller bits.
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some more bits. Hammered copper air filter covers on brass mandrel. Fun making the dizzys. Of note: Most of the Miller engines have 4 bolt cam covers (on top at end), some have 6 bolts. looks like the 4 bolt style was more common. And if you look closely, some engines are mixed with both styles. I guess when rebuilding these, you have to use what you can get.
Build on hold until fresh supply of aluminum bar arrives. I use 'online metals.' fast shippers, easy to use website, very descriptive info, and sells small pieces.
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Nickle alloy acorn nuts arrived in mail. Very fast delivery form MiniTaps. They have a nice selection of tiny nuts, taps and screws at good prices (for the size) down to M 0.3 !! I use M 2.4 acorns and screws. American sizes 0000-160 to 0-80! Wow.
at least 104 nuts needed just for heads and supercharger %%, so had to order more.....
From what I can figure off the limited net pics of the V16 install is that the flywheel is up front, and output from crank goes forwards to an angled gearbox, which then sends power back rearwards , under the engine, to prop shaft. I don't plan on making those parts.
Anyone have a cooling system diagram for a Miller V16?
Looks like head cooling pipes on top with flow up and out(or down and in?) , through engine and/or over the side, being pumped in/out from the lower side of block/head (where the copper tube and its four outlets will be attached).
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and if you are enjoying this, you may like one of my other builds(easy reading 3 page thread):
http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,48955.0.html
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This boat demonstrates classic 40-50s lines. The finish is exquisite, and floats well on its water line. Your adaptations for installation of engine, battery and prop shaft are notable. Once complete, the boat should sail well and stay on its designed water line. Nice job.
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Nickle alloy acorn nuts arrived in mail. Very fast delivery form MiniTaps. They have a nice selection of tiny nuts, taps and screws at good prices (for the size) down to M 0.3 !! I use M 2.4 acorns and screws. American sizes 0000-160 to 0-80! Wow.
at least 104 nuts needed just for heads and supercharger %% , so had to order more.....
From what I can figure off the limited net pics of the V16 install is that the flywheel is up front, and output from crank goes forwards to an angled gearbox, which then sends power back rearwards , under the engine, to prop shaft. I don't plan on making those parts.
Anyone have a cooling system diagram for a Miller V16?
Looks like head cooling pipes on top with flow up and out(or down and in?) , through engine and/or over the side, being pumped in/out from the lower side of block/head (where the copper tube and its four outlets will be attached).
Your thread should come with a warning
"Warning contains images of engineering pornography, viewer discretion advised"
That engine looks amazing
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Thanks, fellas! Yep, I find myself staring at it too....
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More eye candy....... took 8 hours to mill the heads, set the cam covers, and make the rear cam sheets...another 32 acorns... :-)
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Beautiful! :-))
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Thanks Martin, I really appreciate that comment. This engine looks nice in the pics but great in person. real nice satin shine. Did some more. Added the engine mounts. Some blocks had 10 mounts, 5 per side. Some had three per side. I suspect that these are 'newer' more recent blocks or the 'oldest' style....don't really know. there was some weakness to the block originally, and a new beefier bearing mount type design was used. The Miss America VII of 1930 had the 5 per side engine mounts. I went with the 3 per side, because you really can't see them.
The whole engine is held together by 8 main 2-56 bolts. Two for the cam covers, two for the heads, and one for the carb ( a single bolt into a brazed 1/4 brass solid rod. rod acts like a clamp and holds the intake together), 2 for the cam flats, and one small bolt for the carb filter.
The solid cam covers have flats milled to their bottom sides which fit milled head surface. The cams are round on the ends, which fit respective cam covers or flats. The flats each have a bolt holding them to the heads. this creates a clamp like effect holding the heads together tightly. The cam covers do not fall out because they are 'locked' on to the head.
waiting on some tiny false bolts to do the block covers.... have not decided how to build the exhaust. Found some 1/12 spark plugs on the net (sold locally in Ohio USA!!) so bought 16 of them. Did not feel like machining them!
Tight fit in the engine bay .... and looks scale appropriate!
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too many 1mm bolts to count......getting there bit by bit...
RBMotion has some tiny bolts if anyone needs them
Bought a Micromark microlux variable speed mini drill press and x/y cross slide. eeeeeehhhhhh...hmmmmmmmm. thought the quality would be better. Noisy drill with cheap motor, crappy round belt. Not impressed as the excellent mini mill is only 400$ more and is 10 times better built. It is NOT 'jewelers quality(unless you have a bad jeweler).'
BUT, there are only so many inexpensive mini drill presses. It has little power at low speeds. I can drill 1mm holes in aluminum. It is good for SMALL holes. The base and casing is very nice. it works well with the x/y table . the x/y table is made in Japan and has near zero lash. some plastic parts which I did not expect for 110$. The variable model comes with an electric micrometer depth gauge. not great, does not always work right. you won't need it. the analog variable speed control IS nice to have. The one armed bandit style is perfect.
http://www.micromark.com/microlux-benchtop-variable-speed-mini-hobby-drill-press,8283.html
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Absolutely stunning work and I'm very much looking forward to seeing more. Thanks for sharing.
Alex
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Thanks Cowboy! Did the intake manifold. Could not find a pic so just approximated the design(probably should have been 2 groups of four evenly spaced pipes). 4-40 Mounting stud pressed into supercharger. All brazed w/silver solder.
There are two intake manifolds, one for each cylinder head, and a 'Y' off the supercharger. I would have included the boost blow off valve springs at the ends of the manifold tubes(cool looking cone shaped springs), but no room in boat, and they would have been hidden anyway.....
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testor's chrome over gloss black. waiting on some 150 micron stainless mesh to replace the not scale brass mesh.
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Head detail. Some kind of vent? (x4) on heads, needed two bolts each and recessed profile. Pics show how I do it 'assembly line' style. Brass cross braces are pinned in recesses. Brass face up on wheel sander, but sanded roughly to size face down....more stable...then squared up and final sizing on the mill. Slit sawed off one at a time.
Also made the coolant lines. Semi tapered and mounted with a slant. Made of copper and brass - all silver brazed. Was going to make the little flanges...will see.
Just waiting on a set of 1/8 scale spark plugs. really wanted 1/10 but can't find them and I don't feel like making them. the ones I have in 1/12 are too small. will use 28 gauge yellow wire and black spark plug boots!
The plugs are recessed into what looks like a locking sleeve. should be fun to make these last bits. Also, the engine will mount to an aluminum plate base, and the exhaust manifolds will be mounted to same base. I don't plan on building these anytime soon. This was just supposed to be a simple conversion. Now with over 100 hours into the engine, seems like this easy project turned into a real project......(I guess I felt like I had to make more of this model myself)...but I don't plan on ever building another V16, unless it's 1:1 scale!
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Keep this coming xrad.
Great to see the workmanship here.
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Next thing your gonna say is "oh by the way this will actually run"
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That is just beautiful - It reminds me of a piece of jewellery; you have some real talent and skills and I can't wait to see the finished result :-)
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Thanks guys, that is very nice of you all to say! Looks like server crash deleted all my pics. will repost.
There are 16 brass castle nuts, and 16 plugs, both countersunk 70 thou. 28 gauge plug wire w/heat shrink at the dizzys and rubber boots (real one had metal plug clamps) at the plugs.
Miller all done! %% Enjoy the pics!
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More pics of the final detail:
This was a challenging project, and well worth the meditative value. I will post pics of the final install when done. And of course, pond video (with the Brooklyn tug) as soon as the ice leaves the water
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Now that is very nice
:-))
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Superb :-)) :-)) :-)) :-)) :-)) :-)) :-)) :-)) :-)) :-)) :-)) :-))
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This site drives me nuts! Have to reload constantly. My posts get lost and sometimes it takes forever to upload small pics! Here are some more pics posted again.......
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That really looks like it would run if you fueled it up. Great work there Sir
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Thanks Antipodean!
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Beautiful engine :-))
Sorry you seem to be having problems with the site - please keep posting if you possibly can - it does seem odd that you appear to be the only one suffering like this.
I'll say it again - beautiful engine!! O0
Greg
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Thx Sailorgreg!
Here is final pic. Put the Miller on a base and put it on the bookshelf....
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Exquisite
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I want one
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Thank you. Appreciate the comments!