Model Boat Mayhem
Technical, Techniques, Hints, and Tips => The "Black Arts!" ( Electrics & Electronics ) => Topic started by: Ben Kenobi on December 27, 2014, 01:33:10 pm
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I have a plan, a little knowledge, but no experience.
I'm planning a lighting fit out for a new build, most of the fit out I plan to do using fibre optic since where some of these LED's will be will not be accessible should they fail without serious structural 'violation', I know it's unlikely but I've had LED's fail. That and I plan to try and replicate the effect from 50W halogen down lighters, the problem with fibre is diffusion once you get to the exit - may be able to round the ends with fine wet and dry.
I'm struggling to decide on a light source for the fibre optic and was thinking of something like a CREE high power LED - between 3 and 7 watts - for each fibre lighting circuit. I'm looking for suitable fibre optic but I think it will be all 3mm, I'm actually wondering whether a thicker fibre may not work for the lighting below the waterline too since I know that you can get 7mm dia.
I intend to drive all using a separate and dedicated 'lighting only' 3 or 4S Lipo via some sort of RC switch on all circuits. I have plenty of channels spare so each circuit can have its own switch, been looking at the 8 channel Arduino relay modules.
The thoughts are that using fibre optic means that I can tinker with the light source intensity / colour etc even when the model is built and failures are easily handled.
These are the planned circuits (I may add others)
- Nav Lights / Cockpit / Masthead : Circuit 1
- Rear upper deck (outside) lights : Circuit 2 (Fibre Optic)
- Rear lower deck (outside) lights : Circuit 3 (Fibre Optic)
- Under water lights (Jets) : Circuit 4 : (I do not plan to install LED directly through the hull - need some sort of diffuser)
- Under water lights (Perimeter) : Circuit 5 : (I do not plan to install LED directly in the hull - need some sort of diffuser)Under water light will be colour selectable RGB.
I'm short on experience of what is and isn't available so I need some hints regarding :-
- RC controlled switches / Relays
- Fibre Optic light sources and Fibre in general - light in versus light out, leakage - coated versus uncoated.
- Diffusers for mounting on the end of the fibre
- Diffusers for LED's
Whatever is 'designed' will be bench tested before it gets installed in the model.
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Hi,
Here's a start.....
https://starscape.co.uk/kit-fet.html
Ian
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Thanks - bookmarked - may need to explore whether 1mm fibre will produce sufficient light, or just use 3mm fibre with no insert perhaps.
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Hi Ben, have you checked out the Component Shop website they do various thicknesses
Of fiber optics. Action is also on their site so you could possibly get your switchers at the
Same time.
John
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All going on the list ...
I realise some trial and error (hence wasted £££'s) is inevitable - so the more information the better to help minimise, who knows - might get it right first time .. wish those darn pigs wouldn't fly so low ...
Bookmarked Component Shop so I'll do some more browsing later.
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I have use fibre optics for loco headlights . I have got some good transfer of light from led. The one thing i found you can not bend fibre optic tight so you need to take that in to your design . I used heat shrink to hold the leds on the end of the fibre optics .
john
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I was wondering how to get the LED in contact with the fibre and keep it there, I've been looking at cable glands, never gave shrink wrap a thought.
Did you square the LED off or leave it round?
Wonder if heat shrink would help keep light loss down - would be cheaper and thinner than the coated fibre. The bends could be a problem where some of these go so things like those on the starscape site but which can bend through 90 degrees - I think the starscape ones will work well in the hull and places with more space behind them.
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I know this is railways but I found it very helpful.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6VM3dmutMWw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6VM3dmutMWw)
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hi the you tube vid shows pretty much how I did it. No i did not square off the led, too much work and I still got a lot of light out of the fibre optics . Where I used a single fibre optic I use heat shrink round the end to increase the diameter, then used a big bit of heat shrink to hold the fibre optic to the led .
john
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OK I concede - what I responded with was OTT and an over reaction - so I apologise for the hasty and ill thought out response.
For what it's worth I have now reviewed the relevant area on the website and also spoken at length with another member on the telephone. I've already sent an E-Mail Ian's way to see what we can put together.
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End of MATTER
HE has been MAN enough to apologise to us which is enough
Dave
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Good to see that fairy Godmother is watching over us O0 O0 and cleaning up the mess :-)) :-)) :-))
Back on thread. This is an interesting subject.
I was not aware that a 90 degree bend could be made in fibre optics or did I misunderstand??
The youtube link is a very informative how to do it. :-)) :-))
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Nah it can't - that's why I need a diffuser of some sort.
You can put a nick in the fibre but it won't really distribute the light in the way that I want - but the fibre tip directly is too much like a spot light. The problem is that the place where this is going has limited head room and once assembled can never be accessed again - so I've got to get this right.
I want to reproduce this(http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.charterworld.com%2Fimages%2Fyachts%2FMoonraker%252520-%252520%252520Boat%252520deck%252520with%252520Spa%252520Pool%252520and%252520lounge.jpg&imgrefurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.charterworld.com%2F%3Fsub%3Dgallery%26image%3D5781-4&h=315&w=500&tbnid=7Xk6uQTjaaS7hM%3A&zoom=1&docid=8s_qq_LKQC6rgM&ei=wSqfVKfsFYvvaNPYgbgH&tbm=isch&ved=0CC4QMygPMA8&iact=rc&uact=3&dur=1747&page=1&start=0&ndsp=26)
(http://www.charterworld.com/images/yachts/Moonraker%20-%20%20Boat%20deck%20with%20Spa%20Pool%20and%20lounge.jpg)
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Thread tidied up and a few unnecessary posts removed. Let's keep it civil from now on gentlemen, Mayhem is meant to be a happy place O0
Peter Fitness, Moderator.
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You can get the Fluoro effect by scraping the Fibre as it shows in the you tube link posted above, reply 9, very interesting, some of which may fit in with what you are attempting.
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I need to get some hardware on the bench and do some experimenting
There are actually what appear to be downlighters like 50W Halogens in that rear wing, these are the real challenge, there is however clearly a blue fluorescent type thing going on by the hot tub, ideal for fibre as you say.
On the deck below there are 16 such downlighters as per the rear wing - I counted 8 in that but am struggling to get decent pictures.
Could always buy the real one - it's available for 4.7 million dollars - peanuts considering it hasn't long since had a 6 million dollar refit.
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I have to admit a fair amount of ignorance when it comes to fibre optics, in fact, I know absolutely nothing, so the above youtube link is a real find for me. Thanks for posting it Skimmer Fan :-)) , it opens up lots of possibilities.
Peter.
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Hi,
May not be any good and I may have missed completely what you are trying to achieve but have you come across electro luminescent wire
http://cdn2.bigcommerce.com/server500/810ec/products/2609/images/18672/bluelit__81956__82558.1411020815.1280.1280.jpg?c=2 (http://cdn2.bigcommerce.com/server500/810ec/products/2609/images/18672/bluelit__81956__82558.1411020815.1280.1280.jpg?c=2)
Regards
Jonathan
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Ok where do you get that stuff from that looks darned good tell us more about it please
Dave
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I have drilled a hole in one end of an acrylic rod and then painted the back and end for a down lighter, or to replicate bulkhead lights drilled a hole through the panel and stuck a small piece of acrylic rod over that. Paint the back of the panel black to stop any light spill over
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EL cable being discontinued by www.proto-pic.co.uk (http://www.proto-pic.co.uk) sure someone else will have it -it's on their clearance page
Looks like the stuff you see kids with at night time fairs
Really weird stuff comes in many colours and powered by an exciter unit about the size of a car key fob and a cr2032 type battery
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I never considered acrylic rod and making my own diffusers, the wire now that's interesting, keep the ideas coming.
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Try these for your downlighters.there 0.2mm very bright I was very impressed with the evemodel-uk TO402WM 20pcs Pre-soldered micro litz wired leads warm white got mine on e-bay SMD LED 0402. Regards Howard
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that is very interesting does anyone know if when using this stuff if there is a minimum or even max length of wire that has to be used and does it get hot at all
Dave
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that is very interesting does nayone know if when using this stuff if there is a minimum or even max length of wire that has to be uses and does it get hot at all
Dave
The youtube link says it does not get hot and that you can coil the fibre all very interesting and plenty of application for us boaters.
Am going to "experiment" looks a heck of a lot easier than running wires to and fro.
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EL cable Does not get hot very flexible - you can get splitters etc so you can plumb it- joint it etc I think
Pretty cool stuff
Jonathan
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http://proto-pic.co.uk/lime-green-el-wire-2-5-metres/
EL Wire, also known as Electroluminescent wire is a stiff wire core coated with phosphor and then covered with a protective PVC sheath. When an AC signal is applied to it, it glows an aqua (blue green) color. You can make it look different colors by changing the coating, for example this is a vivid lime green. It looks a little like thin neon. Very bendable, it keeps its shape and you can curl it around your finger. Its an easy way to add some glow to a project, not as bright as LEDs but uses a lot less power!
We've got 2.6mm thickness EL wire, with a lime green coat, pre-cut and soldered to a standard quick-connect EL wire. It is made with the latest technology and twice as bright as 'standard' 2.3mm EL - running it at 1.5KHz/90V it emits 123 cd/m^2 or light and a half-life (50% brightness reduction) after 3000 hours of continuous use. Draws about 10mA per meter. The capacitance is about twice that of 'standard' EL, 11 nF/m so if you're using an inverter, it will drive only half as much high brightness wire as standard.
Often used for costuming, decoration, accent lighting, safety vests, bicycle/motorcycle/car/boat/home decoration, signs, etc! This wire is not designed explicitly for outdoor use so it will fade if continuously exposed to UV.
To use, the wire must be connected to an inverter that provides an AC supply of approximately 100V at 2000 Hz. This wire is 250 cm long which is the maximum that can be driven by our handy 2xAA portable pocket inverter The full length draws 200mA from the 2xAA batteries (so 2000mAh batteries will last ~10 hours if on 'constant' mode)
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Hi,
I bought one these evaluation kits:-
http://shop.surelight.com/3_piece_el_wire_evaluation_kit.htm
They work very well, but now I'm just trying to think of an application on my boats. Batteries were included with mine!
Ian
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A very INTERESTING product indeed
Dave
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I bought one of those electric wire things a few years ago... I wonder where it is.
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MMMM you didnt get rid of it when you had the MEGGA shed clearence did you Martin
Dave
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I bought one of those electric wire things a few years ago... I wonder where it is.
Switch it on and it will show up %) %) %)
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Meanwhile I found 'light pipes'
http://uk.mouser.com/Optoelectronics/LED-Indication/LED-Light-Pipes/_/N-b1d20 (http://uk.mouser.com/Optoelectronics/LED-Indication/LED-Light-Pipes/_/N-b1d20)
http://uk.mouser.com/new/optoelectronics/led-indication/led-light-pipes/bivar-FLPlenses/n-b1d20Z2omqai (http://uk.mouser.com/new/optoelectronics/led-indication/led-light-pipes/bivar-FLPlenses/n-b1d20Z2omqai)
so that's something else to play with
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Led light pipe plus if possible tri colour led would be really neat -just pick your colour :embarrassed:
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FWIW, I bought a cheap lamp years ago. It had a plastic chrome base and about 200 fine fibre optic wires attaches. More than I will ever need. You can bend them well, as long as you do not kink and the light still comes out the end. You also get a battery operated light source too..
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This link - http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-Solder-EL-Electroluminescent-Wire/#step0 - talks cheerfully about using a battery pack with no mention of AC. Or volts or current for that matter. In situ on a boat, it might just be as fault prone as anything else, but more difficult to service.
Years ago I was involved in making a control panel for a model rail layout - we used a lot of fibre for the route indication. That was offcuts from a "horses tail lamp" manufacturer, thus cheap and plentiful. Exchange & Mart was a wonderful thing back then. We used mini lamps as a source due to them being easy to get and a bright light source. We could get 10 or a dozen fibres into a tubular ferrule (paper sleeve) that was a sliding fit over the bulb. To maximize the light going into the fibre, since it was plastic rather than glass, we heated the end in a flame and tamped it so it had a conical shape and a flat end. The other end got the heat treatment but was untamped, forming a bulb. This arrangement was quite visible in normal light. As noted before, it did not like tight curves. I put this down to the stress patterns that formed at the curve giving different reflection/refraction patterns, lighting up the bend rather than allowing the light to the other end.
Edge lit light guides do work well, but you need to make sure that there are absolutely no blemishes anywhere, other than where you want the light to exit.
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This is a neat pack 12volt in
http://proto-pic.co.uk/12v-el-electroluminescent-wire-tape-inverter/
Can power 6m high brightness / 12m normal EL cable
No reason to be fault prone if installed well both physically and electrically
Regards jonathan
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Fiber optics were used in the sauna roof to give a twinkle to do this all the fibers were brought back to an acrylic rod and the fibers were attached to this by heat shrink . The rod was clamped and a halogen bulb used as a light source , Ultralight Led could be used . Between the light and the acrylic rod was a disk with a pandom pattern of holes and slots all different shapes with coloured film on them ,a motor turned the disk making the lights in the sauna cabin twinkle like stares and all different colours . This had one bright white light but gave lots of colours . This piece of kit was made by Swervoski the jewelry /binocular people .
David
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You can also find elwire, elpanels etc at http://elwirecraft.co.uk/ (http://elwirecraft.co.uk/)
Good site. Used them before
Declan
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hi ben K.
think I have found what you are looking for, in ther B&Q cat an LED flexiblelighting film which you can cut to length. its just like a roll of double side tape.
frank
https://www.google.co.uk/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4GUEA_enGB581GB581&q=juniz+flexible+lighting+film (https://www.google.co.uk/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4GUEA_enGB581GB581&q=juniz+flexible+lighting+film)
googled some others for comparison
https://www.google.co.uk/search?sourceid=navclient&aq=&oq=juniz+flexible+lighting+film&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4GUEA_enGB581GB581&q=flexible+lighting+film&gs_l=hp..1.41l3.0.0.1.2016410...........0.rEWWnYbxX-c (https://www.google.co.uk/search?sourceid=navclient&aq=&oq=juniz+flexible+lighting+film&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4GUEA_enGB581GB581&q=flexible+lighting+film&gs_l=hp..1.41l3.0.0.1.2016410...........0.rEWWnYbxX-c)
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The tapes are sets of three LEDs repeated along the length of the tape with power (12 volts) fed in from one end. Great for fish tanks and applying full size strip lighting, but I feel that they would be of very limited use on a model.