Model Boat Mayhem

Mess Deck: General Section => Chit-Chat => Topic started by: U-33 on January 06, 2015, 02:20:07 PM

Title: Drone law...
Post by: U-33 on January 06, 2015, 02:20:07 PM
Can anyone explain to me  the laws surrounding the flying of drones/quadcopters/call them what you will. I'd like to fly mine outside on the grassed areas between our blocks of flats where I used to fly my Chinook (nobody ever complained to me about flying that) but I don't want to upset my neighbours.


And how about flying in public parks, recreation grounds, etc? Obviously I'm not silly enough to fly anywhere near other people, and if anyone gets close, I'd land until they have gone.


I will add here that flying out on the areas between the blocks of flats would be done without the camera attached.


I do have access to plenty of countryside areas, miles from any houses and people, but it's not going to be every day that I'll want to drive right out in the sticks for an hour's flying, so it would be nice just to pop downstairs and have a quick flying session, or drive ten minutes to the local recreation ground, on a calm evening.


Rich

Title: Re: Drone law...
Post by: Netleyned on January 06, 2015, 02:30:29 PM
Apart from the Law,
Insure, Insure,Insure.
Tell your Insurers what you intend to do
to make sure that if anything untoward happens
you have third party cover for quite a few million
coins of the realm.


Ned
Title: Re: Drone law...
Post by: Terry on January 06, 2015, 02:33:13 PM
Check out the BMFA guidelines.
http://www.bmfa.org/Multi-Rotors (http://www.bmfa.org/Multi-Rotors)


Cheers, Terry
Title: Re: Drone law...
Post by: Stavros on January 06, 2015, 02:35:19 PM
 Summary of UK legal requirements  This is a summary of the legal situation in as plain English as we can do! Please refer to the air navigation order (http://www.caa.co.uk/application.aspx?catid=33&pagetype=65&appid=11&mode=detail&id=226) on the CAA site for specific details.
The operation of the aircraft must not endanger anyone or anything.
The aircraft must be kept within the visual line of sight (normally taken to be within 500 m horizontally and 400 ft vertically) of its remote pilot (i.e. the ‘person in charge’ of it). Operations beyond these distances must be approved by the CAA (the basic premise being for the operator to prove that he/she can do this safely).
Small unmanned aircraft (irrespective of their mass) that are being used for surveillance purposes are subject to tighter restrictions with regard to the minimum distances that you can fly near people or properties that are not under your control. If you wish to fly within these minima, permission is required from the CAA before operations are commenced.
CAA permission is also required for all flights that are being conducted for aerial work (i.e. in very simple terms, you are getting paid for doing it).
The 'remote pilot' has the responsibility for satisfying him/herself that the flight can be conducted safely.
The aircraft must not be flown:
  Details of UK restricted airspace can be found at www.skydemonlight.com (http://www.skydemonlight.com/)
Careful note should be taken that the collection of images of identifiable individuals, even inadvertently, when using surveillance cameras mounted on a small unmanned surveillance aircraft, will be subject to the Data Protection Act. As this Act contains requirements concerning the collection, storage and use of such images, Small Unmanned Aircraft operators should ensure that they are complying with any such applicable requirements or exemptions. Further information about the Data Protection Act and the circumstances in which it applies can be obtained from the Information Commissioner’s Office and website: www.ico.org.uk (http://www.ico.org.uk)
 
Just google Drone flying laws
 
Dave
Title: Re: Drone law...
Post by: U-33 on January 06, 2015, 03:21:09 PM
Excellent...just what I needed to know. Thank you gentlemen...much appreciated.


Rich
Title: Re: Drone law...
Post by: Subculture on January 06, 2015, 03:45:03 PM
The BMFA regulations are easy to read and digest.

Personally I don't fly in parks-I use common land, which is deserted most of the time, save for the occasional dog walker. I also keep the height down. Pure thrust machines like quadcopters, unlike planes and even to a certain extent helicopters have zero redundancy when things go wrong.
Title: Re: Drone law...
Post by: IanPal on January 06, 2015, 04:10:09 PM
I had one of these drone things following me the other afternoon whilst out walking the dog, it spooked the dog. I couldn't see the person flying it or I would have had a word. I was hoping it would land near me so I could have accidentally stood on it.


Why people feel the need to fly these things near people or buildings is beyond me. Perhaps when someone/something gets damaged and the person flying it land in court people may start to think twice?
Well I hope so.
Title: Re: Drone law...
Post by: U-33 on January 06, 2015, 04:45:29 PM
It wasn't me Ian, honest... %)


I think I'll stick to flying out in the sticks, safer for me and everybody else. It's not that far to drive, and it gives me a reason to go out as well.


Rich
Title: Re: Drone law...
Post by: Netleyned on January 06, 2015, 04:59:55 PM
Last week down at the boating lake a guy came
running past with a transmitter in his hand calling
out 'Has anyone seen a quadcopter?' {-)
A Christmas pressie dissappeared into the wide blue yonder.

Ned
Title: Re: Drone law...
Post by: mrlownotes on January 06, 2015, 05:11:55 PM
Drone Law............
.............well, that pretty much excludes anything that would make it exciting to own and fly one, especially with onboard camera and FPV fed back to the TX..........!
..........the bottom line seems to be........don't use them anywhere where anything interesting might be going on that you'd like to photograph aerially......!
........the distances stated.......50m........150m.........500m ..........400ft     ..I'll bet there's not many people that can accurately estimate the required safe distances...........me included......... !
Or am I just being an ole grumpy guts ?
Title: Re: Drone law...
Post by: Fastfaz on January 06, 2015, 05:28:42 PM
  Hi,
      I would try and find somewhere that is very quiet, unfortunately we live in a "where there is blame there's a claim culture" so watch your back stay lucky.
       Cheers,
            Peter.
Title: Re: Drone law...
Post by: Subculture on January 06, 2015, 05:30:50 PM
If you have trouble with metric, add on 10% and that's the distance in yards. 150 feet is not that far really, quite easy to maintain that kind of distance.

Personally having had a crack at copters, I prefer flying fixed wing.
Title: Re: Drone law...
Post by: U-33 on January 06, 2015, 05:48:18 PM
I've never flown fixed wing, never sort of did much for me. I went straight into helicopters, took a course of lessons in how to fly the things properly, and carried on from there.


Rich
Title: Re: Drone law...
Post by: Colin Bishop on January 06, 2015, 05:49:46 PM
The problem with these drones is that they have the potential for serious invasion of privacy. You could use them to see who is sunbathing naked in their back gardens for example (not just now though!) Google Earth and Google Streetview generated a lot of complaints, people don't like the idea of being surveilled in close up by any Tom, Dick or Harry who thinks it might be amusing, especially if they then put it on You Tube.

Last week a freelance press guy was arrested because he used a drone to try and photograph what was going on while police were removing victims from a tragic caravan fire. He protested indignantly that he was within his rights and maybe legally he was but it was a pretty s****y thing to do and the police obviously felt so too.

I suspect that it may not be too long before drones are seen as fair game for anyone with an air rifle who thinks they are being spied on. Not sure that I'd blame them either.

Colin
Title: Re: Drone law...
Post by: U-33 on January 06, 2015, 05:54:05 PM
Probably a good reason for flying mine out in the sticks...I could spy on a cow or two, or maybe a few sheep.


Rich
Title: Re: Drone law...
Post by: IanPal on January 06, 2015, 05:58:47 PM
If you have trouble with metric, add on 10% and that's the distance in yards. 150 feet is not that far really, quite easy to maintain that kind of distance.

Personally having had a crack at copters, I prefer flying fixed wing.


Andy, if you manage to get along to the Norwich sub day Rich and me were thinking of bringing along my Catalina to float out and see how long it takes a sub to sink the damn thing  {-)
You could always show us how it's meant to be flown first.  Take off/landing on the water of course  %%
Title: Re: Drone law...
Post by: Subculture on January 06, 2015, 06:00:38 PM
At the end of the day, the technology has been around for a long time if you want to spy on people. I mean you could just put a keyfob cam on the end of a long stick if you want to peer over the garden fence, and that would be a good deal stealthier than a quadcopter.

In fact did a similar thing when looking for a gutter blockage, played it back on a tablet, located the blockage, then used a hoover with a long length of plastic pipe connected to suck it out. Worked a treat, and safer than climbing up a ladder!

I think the media are sensationalizing it though. I mean at the end of the day, you go for a walk down the high street, and you have ton plus mechanized vehicles whizzing past you just feet away e.g. cars. I'm more worried about them than models.
Title: Re: Drone law...
Post by: Captain Flack on January 06, 2015, 06:04:35 PM
It might be worth mentioning that your insurance is only valid where the land owner has given permission to fly on their land.   Ask me how I know, as we had all sorts of problems with one particular member of my helicopter club who insisted in flying anywhere he wanted despite being advised by the BMFA that Insurance does not give you "carte blanche" to fly anywhere you feel.
There is quite a lot of info regarding drones in the last edition of their mag, and I believe, on their website.

The problem with all these models is that the many will always suffer for the idiotic few who don't give a rats about anyone or anything else and then defend their actions by stating "i'ts public land".  Somebody still owns it and if you're in the west country there aren't many Councils or Moor Authorities that will give you permission, or at least not without so many rules and regulations, it's probably not worth flying anyways.
Title: Re: Drone law...
Post by: Subculture on January 06, 2015, 06:07:37 PM
Black Park is the place for water planes I believe. I've never taken off from water. Most of the time I hand launch, as the grass is often too long to take off from the ground.
Title: Re: Drone law...
Post by: Fastfaz on January 07, 2015, 02:11:37 AM
   "If" the longest word in the English language. Think of the reaction from anyone feeling spied on/stalked with the camera from one these devices then add to the equation the pervert's that unfortunately live in our society. Years ago it was the invention of the digital camera now we have all these sickos surfing the net looking to contact others to share their vile hobby. Then you have the enthusiast who just wants to fly a small helicopter and can't because its not politically correct. Our society is going forwards isn't it? who knows.
    Soap box now packed away.
          Cheers,
              Peter. {:-{
Title: Re: Drone law...
Post by: derekwarner on January 07, 2015, 05:50:38 AM
 >>:-(.. twenty years ago, my wife & I attended our children's primary school swimming carnival  :-))

You guessed it.......I was not allowed to photograph my second daughter diving off the blocks  <*< ..... Derek
Title: Re: Drone law...
Post by: Jonty on January 07, 2015, 04:27:17 PM
  I seem to remember from many years ago that it was illegal to fit a camera in any model aircraft. Has that changed?
Title: Re: Drone law...
Post by: Arrow5 on January 07, 2015, 05:19:16 PM
I don't think there  was ever any such rule .  Current legislation is that you cant charge for photographs or any other work without a lot of qualifications.
Title: Re: Drone law...
Post by: Peter Fitness on January 07, 2015, 08:49:37 PM
Similar regulations regarding drones have recently been introduced here in Australia. This action was taken following a number of "spying" incidents such as Colin mentioned, as well as the concern for public safety when the drones are being flown by incompetent operators.


Peter.
Title: Re: Drone law...
Post by: Mad Scientist on January 07, 2015, 09:32:03 PM
  I seem to remember from many years ago that it was illegal to fit a camera in any model aircraft. Has that changed?

Hmm...I remember an old movie called 'The Flying Eye' in which an aircraft with a camera fitted was the title 'character'. Quite sure it was a British film, and intended to appeal to children (which is what I was, back in the 1960's).

Tom
Title: Re: Drone law...
Post by: Umi_Ryuzuki on January 07, 2015, 11:48:43 PM
Right, Back to Kites then, eeh Arrow5?
 :-)) :-)) :-))
Title: Re: Drone law...
Post by: Arrow5 on January 08, 2015, 09:10:49 AM
Maximum altitude for kites and balloons is even lower than the 400ft for R/C planes and multi-rotors.  Keeping the glass plates wet was my major problem Umi  %)  and you had to have a biggish model to carry the half-plate cameras. O0    Current aircraft in the  20" span range , cameras the size of Oxo cubes (1") , military have Humming-bird and even insect size drones with cameras and other sensing devices , oops shhh. :police:
Title: Re: Drone law...
Post by: Fastfaz on January 08, 2015, 04:05:19 PM
  1984!
      George had a wonderful imagination or was it imagination?
          Cheers,
             Peter. >:-o
Title: Re: Drone law...
Post by: Arrow5 on January 08, 2015, 04:22:46 PM
 How it was done just a few years ago.   Bird plane was for snooping on wildlife crime and clandestine work in rural areas. Big one carried a Pentax 645 (120 size film)  It was a powered glider, 400 still shots on 6cm movie film stock.  Motorway and construction progress shots mostly.   Corgaff Castle was taken just after a snow storm and full-size aircraft couldn't take off till runways were cleared. All the models were hand launched and belly landers, no wheels , rough terrain on average. Golf course fairways were heaven ! Cameras were 35mm Canon, Pentax and Nikon. Advertising on aircraft proved to be a mistake hence the "Bird Research" motif .  The guy with the shotgun under his arm always gave the clue " I suppose it`ll be these damned geese/buzzards/crows"   The usual knowing nod, wink and bit of " I`m not at liberty to say" got me out of a lot potential trouble.
Title: Re: Drone law...
Post by: U-33 on January 08, 2015, 04:33:51 PM
There used to be a chap who flew a huge r/c pterodactyl over the landfill site where we used to tip, he was paid a few quid to keep the seagulls away. The thing was huge, frightened the life out of me first time I ever saw it...had to check what 'er that was indoors had put in my flask!


Rich
Title: Re: Drone law...
Post by: Arrow5 on January 08, 2015, 04:55:35 PM
Yep that was an experiment we were testing with migrating geese on Scottish islands  using 60 powered Wot 4s and own design deltas with no silencers.  Speed and noise didn't scare them but sure annoyed the neighbours.  Back to model boats, at the same place trying keep Eider Ducks off oyster farms .  Fast and noisy Cigarette hull , glo motor straight pipe, then slow and quiet with dummy seal body, the ducks worst enemy.   Both failures but I`ve still got the seal decoy that was intended to scare them.  Called it Andre after a real seal that I got friendly with in USA.