Model Boat Mayhem
Mess Deck: General Section => Chit-Chat => Topic started by: Martin (Admin) on January 16, 2015, 11:59:15 am
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Nuffink to do with model boats but I've argued for years that you should always leave your car in gear when parked.
Got a Safety Novice from work today advising: 'Always leave your car in car when parked'.
But I didn't know it was actually in the Highway code!
https://www.gov.uk/waiting-and-parking/parking-at-night-248-to-252 (https://www.gov.uk/waiting-and-parking/parking-at-night-248-to-252)
Rule 252 Parking on hills. If you park on a hill you should:
- park close to the kerb and apply the handbrake firmly
- select a forward gear and turn your steering wheel away from the kerb when facing uphill
- select reverse gear and turn your steering wheel towards the kerb when facing downhill
- use ‘park’ if your car has an automatic gearbox.
(https://assets.digital.cabinet-office.gov.uk/static/hc/hc_rule_252_when_parking_turn_your_wheels_away_from_the_kerb_when_facing_uphill_turn_them_towards_the_kerb_when_facing_downhill.jpg)
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And then you return to your vehicle, start the engine and the starter motor overcomes the handbrake to hurl you into the car immediately in front. (Or, if you have the wheels pointing towards the kerb you terminate the little old lady who was just passing on the pavement).
Just think! All those years you have been doing it wrong and never caused any problems at all....
Colin %)
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Back in the 60s, when American cars had huge steel bumpers, it was nothing unusual to see one lengthening a parking space by nerfing the other cars. Bad enough with manuals, but disastrous if an auto was left in 'Park'.
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Back in the 60s, when American cars had huge steel bumpers, it was nothing unusual to see one lengthening a parking space by nerfing the other cars. Bad enough with manuals, but disastrous if an auto was left in 'Park'.
Huh?
Always leave cars (both automatics) in park and with handbrake on. Neither car will start if drive is selected.
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In the scandinavian countries, it is not wise to apply the handbrake during the winter months as it will freeze the the pads/shoes to the disc/drum
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Who needs a handbrake ?
We haven't got any hills in Cambridgeshire.
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..... we got those drop kerbs!
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And then you return to your vehicle, start the engine and the starter motor overcomes the handbrake to hurl you into the car immediately in front. (Or, if you have the wheels pointing towards the kerb you terminate the little old lady who was just passing on the pavement).
I passed my 1st driving test abroad in 1974, we were always advised to leave a car in gear as well as use the handbrake. At the same time we always told to start the car with the clutch depressed fully.
In 1975 when I passed my test here i was told something similar by the UK driving instructor.
I usually buy Toyota / Lexus cars and all the ones I've had recently (last 6 years) can't be started without the clutch pedal being depressed or if it's an automatic, the brake pedal pressed.
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They were still saying the same thing in the late 70's.
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Glad to see we're singing from the same hymn sheet Martin....
My wife says she knew she'd married 'Mr Right'...just didn't know my first names were 'Always B. Loody' !
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Policeman father of a past girlfriend advised putting in gear when parked, especially on a hill, as if the handbrake was not fully engaged a passing HGV could cause it to fail - result one car going downhill and out of control - just like my career!
Colin don't you check your car is in neutral before starting?
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Electronic handbrake on my Audi cant start motor unless foot hard on clutch in gear depends o steepness of hill if on the flat handbrake only
Mark.
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Colin don't you check your car is in neutral before starting?
Yes, I do wiggle the gearstick as it happens, but of course I need to take it out of gear when I stop it so it is usually out of gear when I get back in.
Funnily enough, my current Mazda 6 is the first car I have had which requires the clutch to be depressed before it will start although I have experienced this when hiring cars abroad. I guess you get used to anything really. Quite enjoyed the auto when driving in the USA and Canada but not sure whether it would be responsive enough for typical UK traffic conditions.
Colin
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A friend's car in San Diego had a strange anti theft device.
You had to lift your bum off the seat to start it.
Ned
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A friend's car in San Diego had a strange anti theft device.
You had to lift your bum off the seat to start it.
Well that's California for you! Never quite what you expect. I was looking forward to driving 'Ventura Highway' as per the song by America but it's just a boring bit of dual carriageway really. Of course the group never saw it either as they were stationed at US East Anglian airbases in the UK with their parents when they wrote the song which sort of detracts from the romance a bit. Nice songs though.
Colin
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I've always parked like this, as my instructor told me to back in the 1970s. I taught my son to do so, though his driving instructor disagreed. (So much for him knowing his Highway Code! :o )
But I can recall one official publication telling its readers to 'park pretty', with wheels parallel to the kerb at all times.
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My lady friends Jazz automatic won't start unless you have your foot on the brake; it also stops after a bit if you don't have your seat belt fastened.
Just after Christmas some years ago I was parked in a steep hill in a Cotswold town facing the wrong way. When I returned I noticed a Saab was quite close behind me but I didn't take a lot of notice. There was a large gap in front of me before the next car, as I slowly began to move off and return to the right side of the road I glanced in the mirror and noticed that the Saab was still quite close, I moved a bit more and was just about to accelerate when I just happened to check the mirror again and blow me the Saab was still just as close. So I stopped, got out to find that the Saab was sitting on my bumper! There was no one in the car. Either the hand brake had failed or it had not been applied so every time I move it followed me down the hill. If I had not checked my mirror I hate to think what would happened, it would have been carnage.
LB
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Maybe it just liked you LB... :kiss:
Colin
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one of my vans, an old v4 transit decided to release its handbrake and run away down a hill once, fortunately there was a skip in the way.
Grendel
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Wasn't the old V4 transit THE skip...?
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I've seen a few interesting variations on the theme since I started out - most interestingly engaging 5th gear when parked facing downhill! I don't think the driver in question understood much about gear ratios!
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mine was an old ex mot centre parcel van, we figured it had been round the clock 2 maybe 3 times, and it had a tappett that would wander out of adjustment at a whim, I remember pulling up at the side of the road, leaving the engine running and taking the rocker cover off, tweaking the tappett by ear, rocker cover back on and back under way, in less time than it just took to type this.
Grendel
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:o...Grendel..... lets just say you must be a very slow typist of a very quick mechanic...... {-) ... Derek
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The point I was making is that 'Park' physically locks the output side of an auto transmission. If you then force that part of the transmission to move by rotating the driven wheels you can expect major internal damage. Ever tried engaging 'Park' whilst the car is still moving? Makes a very nasty noise.
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Hello.
With quite a few modern cars the handbrake operates the foot brake pistons in the rear calipers so when parking up you should actually press and hold the footbrake on and apply the handbrake at the same time otherwise the handbrake holds the pistons on a hot warm disc which then contracts as it cools ant gets thinner but the pistons stay where they were and the grip is lost and the car rolls off if not in gear.
In San Fransisco USA there are officials who go around checking parked cars and if you have not got you wheels turned into the kerb you will get a fine.
Saw that last time i was there.
Regards sub.
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Nuffink to do with model boats but I've argued for years that you should always leave your car in gear when parked.
Got a Safety Novice from work today advising: 'Always leave your car in car when parked'.
But I didn't know it was actually in the Highway code!
https://www.gov.uk/waiting-and-parking/parking-at-night-248-to-252 (https://www.gov.uk/waiting-and-parking/parking-at-night-248-to-252)
Rule 252 Parking on hills. If you park on a hill you should:
Yes, but no. The code is only talking about on a hill, not always.
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Back in the 60s, when American cars had huge steel bumpers, it was nothing unusual to see one lengthening a parking space by nerfing the other cars. Bad enough with manuals, but disastrous if an auto was left in 'Park'.
But these days a lot of American autos (and probably others too) won't let you take the key out of the ignition unless it's in P.
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Am I the only one who's noticed that the underlined bit in Martin's post reads 'Always leave your car in car when parked'? :o
Tom
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Probably not, just the first to mention it.
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That item has been in the highway code for some time, and refers to hills, the like of which are common in parts of Cornwall and elsewhere. To do anything else with modern parking brakes would be inviting trouble. Since dual circuit brake hydraulics have been accepted as the secondary braking system the mechanical version seems to have been downgraded from a handbrake to a parking brake. Often these only twist the rear shoes giving very little real brake effect.
Having reasonable mechanical empathy with your machine it is natural to depress the clutch on starting to save dragging half the transmission round too. My pet gripe is people who wear out their parking brake ratchet by clunk-clunking the mechanism instead of using the button provided. A worn out ratchet pawl will fail to hold the brake one day.
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My pet gripe is people who wear out their parking brake ratchet by clunk-clunking the mechanism instead of using the button provided. A worn out ratchet pawl will fail to hold the brake one day.
I have had cars where the handbook tells you to do exactly that - to operate the automatic adjusting mechanism!
Colin
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I have had cars where the handbook tells you to do exactly that - to operate the automatic adjusting mechanism!
Colin
Of those who actually have a handbook and know where and what it is, how many do you think have actually read it? >>:-(
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I used to live in a house with a sloping drive. One day my neighbour from across the road called and asked why I had parked on his drive. When I went outside sure enough my car's handbrake had lost its grip and the car had rolled off my drive crossed the road and stopped on his. :embarrassed: Now I always park a manual transmission in gear and turn the wheels to the appropriate side. I now live on a steep hill and definitely apply hand brakes, turn wheels and leave in gear. Its belt, braces and safety pins for me. I have been thinking of modelling some wheel chocks too. {-) Graham
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mine was an old ex mot centre parcel van, we figured it had been round the clock 2 maybe 3 times, and it had a tappett that would wander out of adjustment at a whim, I remember pulling up at the side of the road, leaving the engine running and taking the rocker cover off, tweaking the tappett by ear, rocker cover back on and back under way, in less time than it just took to type this.
Grendel
Ahhh!! The good auld OHV. :-))
Declan
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I usually buy Toyota / Lexus cars and all the ones I've had recently (last 6 years) can't be started without the clutch pedal being depressed or if it's an automatic, the brake pedal pressed.
To start my Toyota Verso The clutch pedal has to be depressed before you can press the start button.
Just wish I could hear the indicator when it flashes.
John
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Hello.
With quite a few modern cars the handbrake operates the foot brake pistons in the rear calipers so when parking up you should actually press and hold the footbrake on and apply the handbrake at the same time otherwise the handbrake holds the pistons on a hot warm disc which then contracts as it cools ant gets thinner but the pistons stay where they were and the grip is lost and the car rolls off if not in gear.
In San Fransisco USA there are officials who go around checking parked cars and if you have not got you wheels turned into the kerb you will get a fine.
Saw that last time i was there.
Regards sub.
In parts of San Fransisco they have to park at 90 degrees to the kerb, otherwise they are fined
Brian
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My C4 Picasso has to have its brake pedal pushed and be in neutral to start and an automatic brake, which applies as soon as the engine is turned off and releases when I start to accelerate. I can manually apply the handbrake if I am waiting on a hill, it then releases automatically when I start off again.
Brian
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FWIW Suzuki motorbikes won't start unless the clutch is in and the sidestand up.
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I have a remote start in my truck that pretty common here for warming them up when it's -20C. My truck is a manual shift so you have to go through a little routine to arm it, in neutral, parking brake on, key off, then when you get out and close the door the truck shuts off and locks the doors.
So you can't leave it in gear but it's pretty flat around here lol.
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Yes, I do wiggle the gearstick as it happens, but of course I need to take it out of gear when I stop it so it is usually out of gear when I get back in.
Funnily enough, my current Mazda 6 is the first car I have had which requires the clutch to be depressed before it will start although I have experienced this when hiring cars abroad. I guess you get used to anything really. Quite enjoyed the auto when driving in the USA and Canada but not sure whether it would be responsive enough for typical UK traffic conditions.
Colin
An automatic car will always be quicker than a manual trans car at least in terms of acceleration.
Almost nobody can change gear manually as fast as an auto box can.
Plus, every time you shift gear in a manual car you are disengaging drive from the wheels when you depress the clutch so the car is not being driven just coasting.
The only way you can change gear fast in a manual car is not lifting off the accelerator and kicking the clutch like you kick a ball.
But that is very mechanically unsympathetic.
Which is costly.
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True in theory but in traffic you frequently need a quick kickdown by dropping a couple of ratios to accelerate, you can do this directly in a manual but I have found that autos tend to lag in these situations, mind you they were American/Canadian cars which may not be set up the same way as European ones.
Colin
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Quite agree with Colin, Automatics always seem to be a bit lacks-a-daisical when it comes to getting off the line!
I've just bought a brand new RAV4 automatic and the kickdown is always a bit on the slow side, even in the so-called 'sport' mode. The car I chopped in for it was an Avensis 2.2 manual diesel estate which was never in the wrong gear or had slow acceleration because it had a proper clutch, not a slush box and I was in complete control....
Prior to that Avensis I had a Lexus RX450h hybrid which rarely had an issue with acceleration because the electric motors kicked in and alleviated the necessity to kick down....that was a nice car, just a tad expensive.
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Depends on the automatic. RAV4 has a CVT which are always a bit slow to wind up, whereas a 'traditional' auto can change in a flick (though the engine still has to rev up). But most cars are set up for economy these days which never helps.
However, nearly all autos have some form of manual override, so if you really want to drive like a manual you can use that.
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My RAv is the 6speed automatic, the CVT on the new model is petrol engine only I think.
The Lexus was a CVT and you're right about it winding up, but the electric motors made up for the lag.
Been playing with the paddles behind the steering wheel but I reckon its still slower than a manual.....but then that's one of the reason I changed, getting old, lazy and shouldn't be charging around everywhere at a gazillion miles an hour!
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Had RAV4's since the long wheelbase model came out about 95 - never let me down and could
always be started without depressing the clutch. 'Course they are all manuals not old mens
autos. Best cars I've ever had(except for fuel consumption) Always parked in gear - or they would end up through my neighbours house wall across the road - quite a steep hill round here.
Geoff
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Well, I have driven lots of automatic American cars and quite a few manuals and an auto will hands down hammer a manual into the ground.
An auto will kick down one, two or even three gears in the time it takes you to push your accelerator foot to the floor.
It will have changed gear and be accelerating by the time you start moving the manual gear lever wondering which gear would be best for the overtaking manoeuvre all the while the clutch is disengaged and the engine has dropped off to idle because you have lifted off the accelerator as well.
As for getting off the line, hold the auto against the brake, load up the torque convertor, lift brake foot, stomp accelerator foot....and you are gone. If you haven't gone, you are spinning the tyres, so lift accelerator, let the tyres hook up, press again.
In a manual, build revs, are they enough to avoid a bog when the clutch comes out, not sure, give it some more, step off clutch, bang, what happened there?
In a manual, build revs, are they enough to avoid a bog when the clutch comes out, not sure, give it some more, release clutch gently, slip, slip, clutch out, more revs, more revs, hang on need to change gear, clutch in, off accelerator, move lever, clutch out, back on accelerator... where's the other guy gone...
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Well in Canada last year, driving a Ford Fusion (new Mondeo) putting my foot hard down produced only a very leisurely response.
Colin
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In just over a year, when I will have to renew my UK driving licence every three years and get my Doctor's OK each time, I may have to consider one of those automatic things, or even an electric pavement-legal single seater.
The later are poorly equipped to transport model boats.
Not everyone can cope with automatics. See https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9t3XBXmtgQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9t3XBXmtgQ)
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In America last year the Honda Versa I had was terrible for acceleration, which is unusual for an American car they are usually like rockets when you start off. My C4 Picasso which is a 2.0ltr is very quick away in fact too quick, spinning the wheels is very easy in it even fully loaded with passengers. It does have some paddles under the steering wheel for manual driving, it is not so quick using them I presume because of human reaction time.
Brian
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Thing is about auto' boxes, they probably react very well to an input but a decent driver will already be in the right gear by virtue of seeing a potential situation and being prepared for it.
In an over taking situation for example, you assess the space and speed required for the manoeuvre, select the gear in preparation and when the times right accelerate and go. In full auto mode you see the same space, hit kick down, wait for it and possibly crap your pants....
Formula 1 cars aren't full auto's, don't think NASCAR racers are either....must be a good reason for it?
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dont forget that the automatic has a lower low gear and more power pulling away - which is why they make a good towing unit for caravans.
Grendel
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Despite what Henry Ford thought.....if God wanted us to drive manual cars he would have given us 3 legs ........ %) ..
Opps......I hope the Moderators will not object to the reference of a religious nature as I would not like to be sent to the bad boys room %)
So rethinking ...if our devine maker/mother nature ......he/she......etc etc {-)... Derek
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Thing is about auto' boxes, they probably react very well to an input but a decent driver will already be in the right gear by virtue of seeing a potential situation and being prepared for it.
In an over taking situation for example, you assess the space and speed required for the manoeuvre, select the gear in preparation and when the times right accelerate and go. In full auto mode you see the same space, hit kick down, wait for it and possibly crap your pants....
Formula 1 cars aren't full auto's, don't think NASCAR racers are either....must be a good reason for it?
I never do anything in my pants as I know the car will react quickly enough in any situation I get in, and that includes the morons who want to try and get in your boot
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Thing is about auto' boxes, they probably react very well to an input but a decent driver will already be in the right gear by virtue of seeing a potential situation and being prepared for it.
In an over taking situation for example, you assess the space and speed required for the manoeuvre, select the gear in preparation and when the times right accelerate and go. In full auto mode you see the same space, hit kick down, wait for it and possibly crap your pants....
Well, actually, no. You use this thing called planning or anticipation. You see where the opportunity is going to arise and you floor the pedal half a second before it arrives.
Formula 1 cars aren't full auto's, don't think NASCAR racers are either....must be a good reason for it?
But a lot of drag racers (especially ET) use automatics :-)
There are couple of other factors involved though. One is the torque curve of the engine. Peaky engines aren't a good match for a BorgWarner type box with torque converter. You need good torque low down because you can't really rev the engine when stationary.
Secondly, torque converters actually operate as a CVT at low speeds and after changing up (typically about 2:1 reducing to 1:1). This means that they sound much more leisurely when accelerating which can make a driver used to a manual think the car isn't doing much. Perception. (This is also why in the past it was normal for automatics to have one less gear than the manual car - the torque converter spreads the gears. That's still true but in the arms race of car sales the numbers thrown at ignorant buyers are more important, and there are now 8 speed autos in some cars.
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All this may be very true but I still prefer a stick to change gear when I want to!
It's all about being in control, I feel better that way even if it is not be the most efficient method. No doubt our US/Canadian friends would take a different view. Each to his own!
Anyway, it looks like driverless cars are coming so you can just do the crossword instead. I rather suspect that our generation will be the last to enjoy driving as it was meant to be.
Colin
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;) Driverless cars that must be worse than the the wife's driving,I suppose it depends on how they programme the computer get it wrong and you get a boy racer on speed or an old lady in a Morris Minor,just hope you can override it and take control,I wonder how it affects the drink driving laws will you still be charged with D/D or just with drunk in charge? insurance problems too,seem a can of worms to me,Ray.
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Don't leave your car parked in gear , why, because if it is hit when parked in gear serious damage could accrue to the gears inside the transmission. Don't leave your car with the hand brake on if it is below freezing. On a steep hill if you are parking downhill turn front wheels into kerb. Up hill do the opposite, if it is very steep do be careful that the car you just passed at the bottom of the hill that looked so like yours & looking a bit the worse for wear is not yours after all. Mick.
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.... because if it is hit when parked in gear serious damage could accrue to the gears inside the transmission.
..... it's already seriously damaged! {:-{
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my choice is a manual for normal driving, but if I had to drive into London or in very heavy traffic I would want an automatic.
Grendel
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It's all about being in control
Very British.
Thinking about it, in many or most modern cars the clutch and stick-shift are often the ONLY part you do actually have direct control over. Everything else is either controlled via or largely by systems that can largely remove you from the equation.
Anyway, it looks like driverless cars are coming so you can just do the crossword instead. I rather suspect that our generation will be the last to enjoy driving as it was meant to be.
Emissions regulations, blanketing large parts of open roads with 50 mph limits and sheer weight of traffic are pushing it to the point where not having to actually drive may be better than doing so :((
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I wonder how it affects the drink driving laws will you still be charged with D/D or just with drunk in charge? insurance problems too,seem a can of worms to me,Ray.
They will have to change the law to allow driverless vehicles on public roads, so presumably some of these issues will be addressed at the same time (not that I'd be very surprised if they weren't).
Insurance wise, a driverless car will have extensive detection equipment and probably recording of the data, so there is likely to be a lot of evidence of what happened in an incident. So sorting out blame and insurance may actually become much simpler.
What will be interesting is a collision between two driverless cars ... :-)