Model Boat Mayhem

The Shipyard ( Dry Dock ): Builds & Questions => Submarines => Topic started by: Cobs on January 27, 2015, 10:34:44 AM

Title: My First Dive Vid - Neptune SB-1
Post by: Cobs on January 27, 2015, 10:34:44 AM
Wasnt sure where to put this, i took the SB1 to a private pool local to me last night ...

www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ZeL2-Zgh8w (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ZeL2-Zgh8w)

Absolutely loved it!!! :)

Link repaired - Admin
Title: Re: My First Dive Vid - Neptune SB-1
Post by: TugCowboy on January 27, 2015, 10:56:41 AM
Love it! Great vid and thanks for sharing.

Correct link is: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ZeL2-Zgh8w (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ZeL2-Zgh8w)  if anyone is struggling to find it.

Alex
Title: Re: My First Dive Vid - Neptune SB-1
Post by: U-33 on January 27, 2015, 11:10:44 AM
Thanks for the link, Alex...


Rob, nice video, my friend...the boat looks to be working as it should. And...I'm jealous of that pool!!




Rich
Title: Re: My First Dive Vid - Neptune SB-1
Post by: Cobs on January 27, 2015, 11:20:32 AM
Oops sorry about the link, usually works like that, thanks for fixing and the nice comments Tug :)

Thanking you also Rich for the good advice and help, she seems to be working a treat, ran out of pool haha need somewhere larger/deeper now, this pool is about 2miles from my home, costs about 19 per hour but ok if a few of you go.

Some mods to do and the FPV gear to add next :)

Rob
Title: Re: My First Dive Vid - Neptune SB-1
Post by: U-33 on January 27, 2015, 11:25:25 AM
She looks good, mate...a good buy, methinks.


Remember those floodlamps we were talking about? Here's my Neptune with them fitted, they just pop on and off with a couple of terry clips.


Rich


Title: Re: My First Dive Vid - Neptune SB-1
Post by: Cobs on January 27, 2015, 11:30:48 AM
Im loving it mate, especially the footage it can bring back :)

Ah those floodlamps yes i seen them, are yours rechargeable or a few AA batteries Rich? I seen 2 different types, maybe the rechargeable ones were a full size one (too large?)

Rob
Title: Re: My First Dive Vid - Neptune SB-1
Post by: U-33 on January 27, 2015, 11:41:38 AM
Rob, at the moment mine run off 3 x AA sized Duracell batteries, although there's no reason why they couldn't be replaced with rechargable cells.


Glad you're enjoying the Neptune mate...my first one was a disaster, it was replaced FOC, the replacement wasn't much better, so that went back...the early ones suffered from electrical problems. The third one which turned up was much better, it never let me down once, I had great fun with that...a chap from France saw it, wanted it, and drove all the way over here to collect it.


This one is yet to go in the water properly, once the weather warms up I'll get out for it's maiden voyage. (cold weather, rheumatoid arthritis and COPD don't go together). I'm just in the process of changing the radio, I want to use my FC-16 with it.


Rich
Title: Re: My First Dive Vid - Neptune SB-1
Post by: Cobs on January 27, 2015, 11:53:40 AM
I actually bought mine from France, a guy called Fred (we worked on the logo together that im using now).

Ill get a couple of those torches ordered now i know which ones they are, thanks for the heads up Rich, i can see it needs larger dive planes, more speed or larger prop? wouldnt go amiss ... unless i just cruise downriver ;)

The on/off switch on mine seems weird have to turn it a few times then it works, is that normal?

I always wrap up mate, detecting or flying always murder on the hands ... now subs haha - land, sea or air i have it covered.
Title: Re: My First Dive Vid - Neptune SB-1
Post by: U-33 on January 27, 2015, 12:00:28 PM
My last one had Robbe U-47 front planes, and the stock front planes I put on the stern, that helped a lot, made it much more responsive.
The new one has the optional six bladed blade fitted, gives it a bit more power...you can try changing the battery to either a nimh pack or a lipo, that will help as well.


My switch is ok...maybe a squirt of WD40 may help?


Rich
Title: Re: My First Dive Vid - Neptune SB-1
Post by: Cobs on January 27, 2015, 12:12:25 PM
I was thinking of the tail fins off a plane, ill probs get Ben to 3d print me some larger ones, mine has a 6 bladed prop, looks like i need those Lipos onboard, does anything need changed for it to accept LiPos Rich? Ive read a lot on the net and someone mentioned having to adjust something but i forgot what.

Ill try some WD, never thought of that

Rob
Title: Re: My First Dive Vid - Neptune SB-1
Post by: U-33 on January 27, 2015, 12:17:57 PM
If you go down the lipo route, you really need a proper esc with a voltage cut out, otherwise you can damage the lipos if you discharge them too much (been there, done that...) It'd be easier to fit a nimh pack, I think...the battery tray needs a bit of trimming if I remember rightly.


Rich
Title: Re: My First Dive Vid - Neptune SB-1
Post by: Cobs on January 27, 2015, 12:21:17 PM
Yeh your probably right Rich, i use LiPos with the Quads and dont like the way they bulge after a few months, last thing i need down below is a chemical fire :/

Can you recommend a good NiMh pack?  Im not sure whats currently in it but i got around an hours worth of cruisin in that pool, chuffed with that

Rob
Title: Re: My First Dive Vid - Neptune SB-1
Post by: U-33 on January 27, 2015, 12:29:25 PM
If you're getting an hour's worth of run time, I'd leave well alone...I've never got an hour out of any of mine!


Rich
Title: Re: My First Dive Vid - Neptune SB-1
Post by: Cobs on January 27, 2015, 12:37:51 PM
Maybe it has already been upgraded, ill leave alone then and check it when im doing the FPV gear/Lights, ill go order those now :)

Rob
Title: Re: My First Dive Vid - Neptune SB-1
Post by: U-33 on January 27, 2015, 12:39:55 PM
Good luck mate, keep in touch...maybe we can persuade you to come down to the Norwich dive in  %)


Rich
Title: Re: My First Dive Vid - Neptune SB-1
Post by: Cobs on January 27, 2015, 12:52:48 PM
Ill not be far mate, if theres any Metal Detecting Rallies down your way i could be persuaded to do a weekend there, ill keep an eye on the rally dates ;)

Rob
Title: Re: My First Dive Vid - Neptune SB-1
Post by: U-33 on January 27, 2015, 12:54:46 PM
Ill not be far mate, if theres any Metal Detecting Rallies down your way i could be persuaded to do a weekend there, ill keep an eye on the rally dates ;)

Rob


Good man! 




Rich
Title: Re: My First Dive Vid - Neptune SB-1
Post by: Klunk on January 27, 2015, 12:59:18 PM
Ill not be far mate, if theres any Metal Detecting Rallies down your way i could be persuaded to do a weekend there, ill keep an eye on the rally dates ;)

Rob


there loads near Richard. I cant remember the local clubs name but my friend has been on loads down that way.
Title: Re: My First Dive Vid - Neptune SB-1
Post by: Cobs on January 27, 2015, 10:18:19 PM
Sounds promising, thanks for that Klunk, i do keep an eye out for rallies on the MD forum, havent travelled further than 120 miles as yet but would defo enjoy detecting down south nearer the larger cities :)

A couple of mates on the FPV forum have 3d designed/going to print me some larger Hydroplanes for the SB1, ill get a photo up after they arrive/fitted :)
Title: Re: My First Dive Vid - Neptune SB-1
Post by: Subculture on January 28, 2015, 11:28:05 AM
Bulging tends to be caused by overstressing the pack- unlikely in a sub like this. You could look at a 4S liFEPo4 pack, that would give you 12.8 volts, closer to the original Pb brick.

Increasing the area of the hydroplanes will improve response, but will also increase drag (no free lunch)
The Neptune has a lot of weight low down. This will make the boat very stable, but decreases the response of the hydroplanes. You could experiment with raising the c.o.g a bit which will make the boat more agile, however this comes at the expense of stability, and you'll find the boat keeps you busy, when near the surface.

A leveller would improve pitch control, but then you should think about separating the forward and rear control planes, with the leveller acting on the rear planes only, and the front planes controlled manually.

A change of prop improves performance a lot. The standard motor is torquey 550 model and will pull a prop with more blade area easily. A kort nozzle prop would make a lot of sense, as the prop is ducted. Raboesch and prop shop do some nice items.
Title: Re: My First Dive Vid - Neptune SB-1
Post by: Cobs on January 28, 2015, 11:58:26 AM
Thanks for all that information Subculture, much appreciated, i guess my Quadcopters stress the Lipos some but if an hour is a good run for my SB1 im happy to leave it at that.

Ill let you know how it goes with the new Hydroplanes, if it seems worse ill look into the leveller setup.

The prop onboard is a 6 bladed type, after seeing its speed in the pool i know it would struggle in rivers, ill be trying it in pools/slow moving areas which is where my interest lies.

Rob
Title: Re: My First Dive Vid - Neptune SB-1
Post by: Subculture on January 28, 2015, 12:05:20 PM
You're only likely to need a leveller if you go for more speed. Then they become almost essential. At slower speed the boats natural weight stability helps keep it steady.
Title: Re: My First Dive Vid - Neptune SB-1
Post by: U-33 on January 28, 2015, 12:08:04 PM
The words 'speed' and 'Neptune' shouldn't really be used in the same sentence...


Rich
Title: Re: My First Dive Vid - Neptune SB-1
Post by: Subculture on January 28, 2015, 01:36:17 PM
Well quite. But I think most people will be happier with something that moves along beyond a snail's pace.
Title: Re: My First Dive Vid - Neptune SB-1
Post by: Cobs on January 28, 2015, 01:56:28 PM
If it could travel upriver that would be ideal, so not so much speed but enough power to make headway, im quite happy mind cruising downriver but know id probably have to walk downriver to retrieve it as is.

I seen a photo of one that had been modified with 2 motors at the rear, that would probably be too much work for me, wondering if theres an "attachment" you could add that could help in this situation (self contained motor/prop strap on kit) - perhaps 1 each side low down even. I know nothing of whats available/possible with subs in general but you can see im trying things out in my mind :)

Im going to FPV mine with a reversing cam/5.8 Video Buoy for now just to trial it at the pool, The Sb1's Video connecting bolt thing on the top - is the one used by the original video cable available to buy anywhere or is it unique to TTs own video lead system? I dont mind wiring my own through there if its available.

Rob
Title: Re: My First Dive Vid - Neptune SB-1
Post by: Subculture on January 28, 2015, 02:16:04 PM
I really wouldn't advise sailing a model submarine in a river or canal. You can never make them 100% failsafe, and even if it's performing well, you can still end up with it snagged up in something. So unless you're quite happy to one day go home without your pride and joy tucked under your arm, stick to waters where the boat is fairly easy to recover.
Title: Re: My First Dive Vid - Neptune SB-1
Post by: Cobs on January 28, 2015, 02:37:59 PM
But you know im going to :) ... or at least try it in calm/pooled areas, it will have some string or something back to me should it get snagged, ill go in for it myself if need be but hoping that doesnt happen...much :/
Title: Re: My First Dive Vid - Neptune SB-1
Post by: U-33 on January 28, 2015, 03:06:16 PM
Andy is quite right, Rob...I lost a submersible in a river many years ago, and despite the best efforts of the local sub aqua club, it was never found. It wasn't a fast flowing river, but quite deep, and the place where it went down was really still water...but I never saw my sub again.


It's a horrible feeling to return home with just the transmitter and no sub to go with it...I'd really advise you to think twice about sailing your Neptune in a river. And then think again...


Rich
Title: Re: My First Dive Vid - Neptune SB-1
Post by: Subculture on January 28, 2015, 06:30:57 PM
Finding suitable water to run a sub in is never an easy task. Most purpose built boating ponds tend to be either too shallow, resulting in your boat bottoming out unless it's a very small boat, or so deep that should something go wrong, it may involve requiring divers to recover it.

Even where depths are correct, ponds are often lacking in clarity making underwater navigation perilous unless you remain at periscope depth.

Swimming pools are the ideal place to run subs, giving all the major attributes required- good depth, easy recovery and clarity.
Title: Re: My First Dive Vid - Neptune SB-1
Post by: Cobs on January 28, 2015, 06:44:08 PM
Dont worry guys im not going to throw it away so easily, ill recce everywhere out before i put her in there, if its flowing or hazardous/obstructions ill not bother, there are plenty of pooled areas in rivers i can try, theres a couple of smaller rivers too, gonna be fun in the summer as my 3 kids will happily come along and use snorkels etc to accompany/help it along :)

In the meantime its a blizzard here so its back to the pool tonight :)
Title: Re: My First Dive Vid - Neptune SB-1
Post by: Cobs on February 03, 2015, 10:37:37 AM
Upgraded the Hydroplanes ...
(http://postimg.org/image/6n74l6e7n/)(http://postimg.org/image/6n74l6e7n/)(http://s29.postimg.org/6n74l6e7n/Hydroplanes.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/6n74l6e7n/)

3d designed and printed by 2 good friends on the FPV forum :)
Title: Re: My First Dive Vid - Neptune SB-1
Post by: U-33 on February 04, 2015, 02:18:08 PM
They look good, Rob...how much bigger are they over the standard ones?


Rich
Title: Re: My First Dive Vid - Neptune SB-1
Post by: Cobs on February 04, 2015, 03:23:57 PM
Here you go Rich, original one on the right...
(http://s18.postimg.org/3rz842y5x/20150204_151806.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/3rz842y5x/)
Title: Re: My First Dive Vid - Neptune SB-1
Post by: U-33 on February 04, 2015, 04:24:49 PM
Good grief...are these available for sale, Rob? I'd have a set of those if they are...


RIch
Title: Re: My First Dive Vid - Neptune SB-1
Post by: Cobs on February 04, 2015, 05:02:41 PM
They cost 24 delivered, (they take 7hrs each to print), if you still want some let me know and ill put you in touch with him, they are a perfect wing shape, side view ...
(http://s1.postimg.org/fspr88tfv/Wing.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/fspr88tfv/)

Comes with a pilot hole ready, the yellow is a darker shade than the original but im not gonna bother spraying them

Rob
Title: Re: My First Dive Vid - Neptune SB-1
Post by: Subculture on February 04, 2015, 05:19:07 PM
Pricey. Tried a quote at these chaps?

http://uk-3d.com/instant-quote/ (http://uk-3d.com/instant-quote/)

Also join the two together with a sprue, then they count as a single part, and that generally lowers cost.
Title: Re: My First Dive Vid - Neptune SB-1
Post by: Cobs on February 04, 2015, 05:36:07 PM
For the same size that site is 28 plus delivery, mine are made from ABS, i think theirs is PLA
Title: Re: My First Dive Vid - Neptune SB-1
Post by: Subculture on February 04, 2015, 06:12:37 PM
They must be bigger than I thought. What size are these planes?
Title: Re: My First Dive Vid - Neptune SB-1
Post by: U-33 on February 04, 2015, 06:26:37 PM
Big...


Rich
Title: Re: My First Dive Vid - Neptune SB-1
Post by: Cobs on February 04, 2015, 06:47:03 PM
Roughly twice the size of the original, 3 inches at the wdest down to 2 inches at the narrow end and 3inches long
Title: Re: My First Dive Vid - Neptune SB-1
Post by: Subculture on February 04, 2015, 06:51:23 PM
Okay, so what's the cubic volume of the parts, about 50cm3?
Title: Re: My First Dive Vid - Neptune SB-1
Post by: Cobs on February 04, 2015, 06:56:21 PM
Volume: 27.496101498997 cubic cm  (He uploaded STL file to that site for comparison) - im assuming thats 1 Plane
Title: Re: My First Dive Vid - Neptune SB-1
Post by: Subculture on February 04, 2015, 07:41:31 PM
Okay, so the site I linked to gave 20cm3 at 6.99. Does the price go up exponentially for an extra few cm3?
Title: Re: My First Dive Vid - Neptune SB-1
Post by: Cobs on February 04, 2015, 08:59:02 PM
Ive no idea how it works, the STL file is on the FPV forum in this thread if you want to try it and get the quote (Hydroplane with Fillet) ...

http://fpv-forum.com/index.php?topic=4340.15 (http://fpv-forum.com/index.php?topic=4340.15)

BigMouse designed it, MrBen printed it for me, BM states 2hr print but it took nearly 7 hrs in reality (each)
Title: Re: My First Dive Vid - Neptune SB-1
Post by: MrBen on February 04, 2015, 09:03:59 PM
I cant upload the STL as its too big but its here :


http://fpv-forum.com/index.php?topic=4340.msg29924#msg29924 (http://fpv-forum.com/index.php?topic=4340.msg29924#msg29924)


You can upload that to the site to get a quote.


They take over 3 hours each (7 hours in total) and if goes wrong during the print its a start from scratch.


ABS is more resilient than PLA if exposed to the elements (sunlight/water) its also harder to print correctly


If you have a friend with a 3d printer you may get it cheaper or as a favour  :-))




edit : just seen Cobs replied just before me, print time depends on many things including layer thickness and speed in the settings.
Title: Re: My First Dive Vid - Neptune SB-1
Post by: Cobs on February 04, 2015, 09:05:57 PM
Oops my bad, i thought 7hrs each :)

Nice one Ben  :-))
Title: Re: My First Dive Vid - Neptune SB-1
Post by: Davy1 on February 05, 2015, 09:16:22 AM
Hi Cobs,

Very interesting planes - they look good and - compared with other methods of making them a great reduction in time and trouble.

Referring back to suitable dive site for subs, I think that you have been given some rather gloomy advice.

Plenty of nice, clear rivers with big deep  pools, where you are. In summer, with snorkel 'cover' in particular you will be fine. You may even get a picture of a passing salmon!

I would invite you down to the Barrow in Furness MBC pond (Featured in Marine Modelling International this month, no less!) sadly we mostly have nil visibility. Come down to our Sub Day though in September to see a fair number of subs in action.

Thanks for the videos and you ARE very lucky to have access to that pool for winter use. Keep well in with them.

David F
Title: Re: My First Dive Vid - Neptune SB-1
Post by: Cobs on February 05, 2015, 11:16:09 AM
Hi Davy,

I know theres a few areas in rivers i can use it, now ive had it at the pool and seen its speed etc im a little more wiser what it can do, theres a couple of waterfalls here i think i could get near the base of too, they seem to have big pooled areas, im guessing the waters a bit calmer below the surface.

Whats going on with the visibility in your pond? Can it be made clearer?

The private pool - i just rang them and asked if i could take my RC sub, he said its fine as long as i dont damage tiles with it, as easy as that eh, i never thought peeps would be struggling to get their subs out over winter, i guess i am lucky then :)

Rob
Title: Re: My First Dive Vid - Neptune SB-1
Post by: Davy1 on February 06, 2015, 09:29:21 AM
Hi Cobs,

It's just a large pond in the park in Barrow so like most ponds it gets too much "nutrient" and so generates a lot of pond life.

It's not generally a problem for model subs, its just that you have a need for water clarity for underwater photography.

We sail all year round and most ponds have much less weed in winter as well. (Weed IS a problem for model subs.)

You are very lucky with your private swimming pool. There aren't  many private pools in the UK and municipal pools are hedged around with all sorts of  access restrictions, opening hours etc.

Best of luck with the videos in local rivers and I look forward to seeing some salmon shots! I remember diving at the Devils Bridge, Kirkby Lonsdale back in the 70's to see the salmon run. Most impressive - underwater!

David
Title: Re: My First Dive Vid - Neptune SB-1
Post by: Subculture on February 06, 2015, 06:14:56 PM
Access to pools just requires...

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v293/subculture84/Fan-of-ten-pound-notes-008_zpsc59e16f5.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/subculture84/media/Fan-of-ten-pound-notes-008_zpsc59e16f5.jpg.html)

Plus a bit of commitment and cooperation from those interested in participating.

Personally I've always found sailing subs in conventional boating ponds uninspiring, akin to flying an aeroplanes with cloud cover at a foot or two where you can only see the undercarriage.

Somehow don't think model flying would have caught on if that was the case.
Title: Re: My First Dive Vid - Neptune SB-1
Post by: U-33 on February 06, 2015, 06:25:20 PM
Quite true, Andy...it's always best to sail in nice clear water, where you can see what your boat is doing at all times. I'm still not keen on sailing in running water though, salmon or no salmon...it only takes one slight failure of something in the boat, or even a false move on the part of the operator, and you're in trouble.


Rich
Title: Re: My First Dive Vid - Neptune SB-1
Post by: Cobs on February 07, 2015, 10:00:19 PM
Clear waters sounds good to me too, ill be scouting around at the mo, too cold for river stuff just yet so ill make use of the pool once a week, i can use my Quadcopter to get a nice birds eye of target areas in the meantime. I still have a few mods to do to the SB1 too, got the Video Buoy to make up and a reversing cam thats gonna be my FPV cam to waterproof more :)

 Rich - i couldnt find the PM where you told me what i would need for doing the lights via a spare channel - what was it called again?

Also ... any help with setting up a Grabber Claw idea thing for object retrieval would be appreciated :) ... was actually thinking of another transmitter for a claw so it can use 6 channels a few Mhz off 40, its the claw thing im not sure about.
Title: Re: My First Dive Vid - Neptune SB-1
Post by: U-33 on February 07, 2015, 10:24:31 PM
Hi Rob,


The switcher you need is a Turnigy Electronic Switcher, just needs one channel to switch the lights on/off.


Pm me your address again and I'll send you that grab arm to try, it only needs one servo to open and close the jaws.


Rich
Title: Re: My First Dive Vid - Neptune SB-1
Post by: Cobs on February 08, 2015, 02:26:11 AM
Hi Rich,

Cheers for that, ordered one of those 7 in 1 types, might as well have some options available :)

PM on its way pal

Rob
Title: Re: My first Dive Vid
Post by: U-33 on February 08, 2015, 09:32:32 AM
You have a pm, Rob..


Rich
Title: Re: My First Dive Vid - Neptune SB-1
Post by: Cobs on February 08, 2015, 01:56:33 PM
Thanks for the info etc Rich, top advice mate, ill get some pix up when ive done the mods.

EDIT:
I mentioned in my PM about a post i read somewhere about a 1 way valve mod, guess you should reply here too so its easier to find, (I read somewhere you can add a 1 way valve to release pressue which enables more depth), wondering if anyones tried that.
Title: Re: My First Dive Vid - Neptune SB-1
Post by: U-33 on February 08, 2015, 02:00:03 PM
No problem, Rob...look forward to the pics.

Rich
Title: Re: My First Dive Vid - Neptune SB-1
Post by: Cobs on February 11, 2015, 01:12:42 PM
What other mods has anyone done to their Neptune SB-1 ? Please list any below :)