Model Boat Mayhem
Technical, Techniques, Hints, and Tips => 3D CAD Design & Printing => Topic started by: essex2visuvesi on February 03, 2015, 08:48:44 pm
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Well I finally bit the bullet and bought one of these
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/351266547523?_trksid=p2060778.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
Here's mine ready to rock and roll
(http://i532.photobucket.com/albums/ee322/Essex2Visuvesi/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-02/CE03F8F0-9046-4DDB-8C54-006E30B8F330.jpg) (http://s532.photobucket.com/user/Essex2Visuvesi/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-02/CE03F8F0-9046-4DDB-8C54-006E30B8F330.jpg.html)
Arrived today so I have set it up and done some calibration prints.
The setup procedure was a doddle, unbox mount the extruder head and plug in
There were some calibration files on the supplied SD car which I have printed and checked. Suprisingly accurate for a first print.
Currently printing another test piece. Will update later this evening
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Good choice on the model, you've picked a good 'un there.
Your world will never be the same again. The house will be filled with little 3D Printed bits to make life easier.
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Cool ! I have an Ultimaker2. It is printing as I write (20ft containers for my barge).
I usually take a stroll on Thingiverse, Youmagine & the likes to open up my mind. At first I only saw my printer as a way of printing parts for my boats. But that's really too narrow. Anytime you need "a thing", go ahead and just print it.
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looks good, may have to get myself one of those. O0 :-))
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so far so good, need to tweak a few settings as i realised they shipped PLA and not ABS so I was printing with the hotbed too hot and the extruder temp too high.
But its a lot of fun :)
Pics to follow when I have something worthwhile to show
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Looking forward to seeing the results of your labours there!!! :-))
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Tonight's tinkerings were just that...
Bed is now levelled and nozzles have been calibrated
The test prints are coming out better each time
Going to print something a bit more exciting tommorow
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Where are the photo,s? <:(
John
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Looks interesting. Once you have paid for the actual printer, how much does it cost in consumables each time you create something? And what is the maximum size object you can create?
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It might help anyone toying with the idea (pun)
to see photos of the learning curve.
Your first attempts to the first masterpiece.
If you took photos of failures it would help
the rest of us when taking the plunge.
Ned
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Could someone do a "how to" Use a 3D Printer for Old Codgers, like how do you copy something that is the same size or scale something down.
Any answers welcome, on a ten pound note.
Len.
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I can post up some pics of last nights attempts but there's nothing much to see.... Some cubes and circles of plastic
As for a how to, I found a very interesting book online. Pm me your email and I'll send a copy
When I have access to a decent keyboard (not my iPad) I'll post a more in depth review with pics
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Before printing anything you obviously need to design it. You have to draw/model a "solid". An enclosed "volume" (as if you were to pour resin in it). A single line or a basic surface "do not exist" (because they lack any thickness). Once your model is good - or you've downloaded a suitable model - you then move to the slicer.
A slicer will take the model (typically as an STL file which describes stuff a simple geometries) and slice it into many layers because that's how consumer 3D printers work (FDM). Lots of settings to tweak although most software have pre-sets that give good results.
At that point you can usually scale, mirror parts (or you could do it in you 3D modelling software before exporting to STL).
Then you have to decide how thick layers will be: 0.05 to 0.2mm. Thinner layers may give better details but will take much more time. Thicker layers can yield stronger parts.
Then you have to specify the "fill rate". Let's say you want to print a simple cube. Either you could tell the slicer to fill it 100%. Printer would then print layers after layers of plastic until you have a solid cube.
Or you could tell the slicer to fill it only 20-25%. Once a solid "floor" is printed (0.6-1mm) only a perimeter wall (0.8-1mm thick) will be printed and the void will have a simple grid or honeycomb "filling" that will save time, material and weight.
(http://rc.noalia.fr/files/misc/3dp/tn/cura_fill_100pct.jpg) (http://rc.noalia.fr/files/misc/3dp/cura_fill_100pct.jpg)
(http://rc.noalia.fr/files/misc/3dp/tn/cura_fill_20pct.jpg) (http://rc.noalia.fr/files/misc/3dp/cura_fill_20pct.jpg)
That's a 50mm cube. Layer height and print speed are the same. Printer head path is show in yellow. Both screenshots show the same layer (somewhere near the middle of the cube). First screenshot is with 100% fill rate (ie: "solid cube") while second screenshot show 20% density.
Not the difference in print duration and amount of material in the upper left corner. Significant !
Another important aspect is whether support structures are needed. As you know FDM printer is actually a pastry bag moved around by stepper motors.
(http://rc.noalia.fr/files/misc/3dp/pastry_bag.jpg)
This leads to an obvious issue: where does the icing go when there's no cupcake under it ? Or : how can I print a bridge or any other opening or cantilever in a model ?
Short answer is: you can't. That why you might sometimes need to add support. Some extra material added by the slicer to support the print and that will be discarded when the print is completed. You may rely on the slicer or on a different pre-processor.
Long answer is: depending on the material you can - to some extend - print in the void or at least "bridge" over a few millimeters or even a few centimeters. Some material are better than other (ie: material with a very fast "glass transition").
Changing the orientation of the model can help (printing sideways, upside down ...). But sometimes it is much more efficient to split your model in 2 or 3 pieces and glue them back together once printed. It is tempting to print a whole model at once but that's not always the best method.
Orientation will also dictate how the part perform strength-wise. 3D printed parts don't like shearing parallel to the layers (you might end up with delamination under stress). But if you know how the part will be stressed you can printed at the right angle so that pressure is applied 90° to the layers.
3D printing is still more akin to milling/machining. Quite a lot of settings to play with depending on the model, material ... ABS for instance tends to retract when cooling down. Parts tend to pop off the build plate and then warp. You sometimes have to add extra tabs/extra surface at the base to try and prevent this.
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Looks interesting. Once you have paid for the actual printer, how much does it cost in consumables each time you create something? And what is the maximum size object you can create?
With my machine the max build area is 200 x 150 x 150mm
PLA and ABS filaments are from about 10quid for a Kilo on a roll, not sure how long they will last as I have only done test prints but so far I've hardly made a dent in the roll.
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e2v..."how long will the roll last?'........is there any sprue or wastage?.....so if a finished component has a weight of ~~200gm, does that mean the filament roll will be the same ~~200gm lighter? Derek
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Very good question Derek....I suppose in theory it would be correct BUT somehow dont think it is as simple as that
Dave
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With my machine the max build area is 200 x 150 x 150mm
PLA and ABS filaments are from about 10quid for a Kilo on a roll, not sure how long they will last as I have only done test prints but so far I've hardly made a dent in the roll.
You need to be very careful with filaments at this price, the cheaper plastics often contain recycled material and can end up jamming in the hot end. So far I have been using plastics from the iMakr shop in London, around £20 to £25 per kilo, with few problems. Make sure you keep the reels in dry conditions or the plastic can absorb water which can cause extrusion problems.
Jim
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As an example of what you can do with a printer this is a hull made from an example on Thingiverse. It was reduced in size from the original as the printer used has only 140 x 140 x 90mm build space. As this was printed as a test it used 0.4mm layers so gives a rough surface which will need filler and sanding to finish.
A tube for the shaft and rudder is formed in the print. The hull was made in sections which were glued using Plastic weld which is a solvent for PLA. Total print time was around 40 hours.
The printer is a Huxley from RepRapPro and came in kit form.
Jim
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Nice, JimG ! Do you have the Thingiverse link ? :}
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Thingverse: http://www.thingiverse.com/
Shapeways: http://www.shapeways.com/
Not that I have a 3D printer - I just like to keep an eye on emerging Tech to get an idea what to buy when the price comes down! ok2
Tom
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Right a little step by step:-
Unpacked the printer and fitted the print head. This was easy enough, it just needed 2 Allen screws fitted.
Next job was to level the printing table. This is done using a program on the printer which places the print head at fixed points. The table is then leveled by adjust 4 screws underneath.
This took about 5 mins to get up and running.
Next up a test print
The supplied SD card was suppled with some sample test prints, so first print was the 20x20x10mm calibration square
Not bad for a first print
(http://i532.photobucket.com/albums/ee322/Essex2Visuvesi/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-02/6EE719CE-7DCE-406F-8793-47BAF4B1B1E7.jpg) (http://s532.photobucket.com/user/Essex2Visuvesi/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-02/6EE719CE-7DCE-406F-8793-47BAF4B1B1E7.jpg.html)
(http://i532.photobucket.com/albums/ee322/Essex2Visuvesi/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-02/3D9BE2F4-57A7-463E-A143-E6550272358F.jpg) (http://s532.photobucket.com/user/Essex2Visuvesi/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-02/3D9BE2F4-57A7-463E-A143-E6550272358F.jpg.html)
(http://i532.photobucket.com/albums/ee322/Essex2Visuvesi/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-02/6EE719CE-7DCE-406F-8793-47BAF4B1B1E7.jpg) (http://s532.photobucket.com/user/Essex2Visuvesi/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-02/6EE719CE-7DCE-406F-8793-47BAF4B1B1E7.jpg.html)
Measurements were taken and its seems spot on, nice and sqaure
Next test print
This one I downloaded from the thingverse website
(http://i532.photobucket.com/albums/ee322/Essex2Visuvesi/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-02/F1C6D1FC-7369-464B-819B-5E786172FE88.jpg) (http://s532.photobucket.com/user/Essex2Visuvesi/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-02/F1C6D1FC-7369-464B-819B-5E786172FE88.jpg.html)
These are a cylinder, solid cylinder and a capped cylinder. The capped cylinder test the bridging, and as you can see it is a little dipped on the top. meaning that its running too hot.
Tonight however didn't go well the first print of the evening failed midway with a filament jam. The rest of the evening was spent clearing out the extruder and feed assembly and trying to get the filament to load.
All in all an interesting project and one I will persevere with.
Next instalment tomorrow
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You need to be very careful with filaments at this price, the cheaper plastics often contain recycled material and can end up jamming in the hot end. So far I have been using plastics from the iMakr shop in London, around £20 to £25 per kilo, with few problems. Make sure you keep the reels in dry conditions or the plastic can absorb water which can cause extrusion problems.
Jim
Im currently using the PLA supplied with the the printer, so have yet to try any others, but I take on board what you say and will take a look at the imakr shop
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Nice, JimG ! Do you have the Thingiverse link ? :}
Hi Calimero the link for the stl files is http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:31681 (http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:31681)
Jim
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That's pretty impressive Essex, for straight out of the box.
A little fine tuning and it will be perfick :-))
Ned
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It's certainly a cracking machine. Watching with interest and dreaming. %)
Is there any noise levels ?, in case you have to leave it running in the same room.
Cheers
ken
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I forsee a queue forming at E2V's door with lots of lists in lots of hands...mind you, the beer vouchers could come in handy.
Rich
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I forsee a queue forming at E2V's door with lots of lists in lots of hands...mind you, the beer vouchers could come in handy.
Rich
Its already started with chaps from work and my local RC car club lol
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Its already started with chaps from work and my local RC car club lol
But yes once I've had chance to do some more testing, Ill be happy to run off the odd prototype
?? Unreadable, chap...
Rich
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?? Unreadable, chap...
Rich
Should be now
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:-))
Rich
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Ad on tv last night for a part work build your own 3d printer think the price was £25.00pm for 12 months( could be wrong)
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Ad on tv last night for a part work build your own 3d printer think the price was £25.00pm for 12 months( could be wrong)
Its over 2 years not 1, makes it quite expensive and it's based on quite old tech, so will be pretty much obsolete by the time it's finished.
2 of the chaps at work have the one on banggood.com and are praising it very highly, although the build area is smaller than mine
I'll post a link later as I'm on the iPad and copy n paste is not its strong point
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Right.... feed jam fixed :) (so far lol)
Looks like the feed motor pinion for want of a better word had not been tightened properly or had worked loose. A drop of blue theadlocker and a quick tighten.... job done
Another issue was the feed tube....the filament was not running freely through the tube causing stoppages. Some research online yeilded that these tubes are indeed problematic, and should be replaced with PTFE tubing
Print job now running :)
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A very useful object to print, nice and simple although it does take around 2 1/2 hours to print.
http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:71502 (http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:71502) epoxy bottle holder.
Jim
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Noisewise its not much louder than an inkjet printer.
Print job at 14% and looking good so far :)
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ok if it is only at 14% now are you going to trust it to do it's own thing overnight or can you stop and restart it....I wouldnt like a hot machine running without supervision
Dave
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now at 36% ill shut it off at midnight lol.... tho you can pause the print
the current print job is started about 10:30pm. Had a few more feed issues which I have solved by changing the Filament to a new roll.
Checking the roll that was supplied the dimameter was inconsistent which was what was causing the jams
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Longest print I've done so far was 44 hours.
Over the past few days I've been printing parts for a 1:16 20ft container. Each part takes between 7 and 10 hours to print (I print quite slowly). At some point I was worried there'd be enough material on left the roll to complete the print. Was a bit of a close call : there was only ~2m left after the print was complete (keep in mind there's approx 60cm that runs to the print head and is always lost).
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I can post up some pics of last nights attempts but there's nothing much to see.... Some cubes and circles of plastic
As for a how to, I found a very interesting book online. Pm me your email and I'll send a copy
When I have access to a decent keyboard (not my iPad) I'll post a more in depth review with pics
PM sent.
Len.
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PM sent.
Len.
Did you get the file
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Did you get the file
Yes thanks Gary
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Not contributing to thread but related to 3D printing socially
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-31164440
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Read this on here earlier. I think ;D
Ned
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Saw this linked on another forum. Something a bit more interesting to print out, which might serve your interest a little better.
http://tim.cexx.org/?p=1282
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Nice
Will give that one a go. Maybe not to use in anger but more as experience
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(http://i532.photobucket.com/albums/ee322/Essex2Visuvesi/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-02/1426DB5E-1E2A-4C84-8948-248737895D0D.jpg) (http://s532.photobucket.com/user/Essex2Visuvesi/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-02/1426DB5E-1E2A-4C84-8948-248737895D0D.jpg.html)
getting there
I cant seem to get it printing in HQ mode without making a mess :(
However the more tinkering I've done the better the prints. It just takes time to get the feed rates and nozzle temps right.
I think I will stick to one brand/supplier for filament as I have noticed that different filaments require different settings. I have 2 spools from the same supplier (red and Black) and they work better at different temps (190 for black and 200 for red)
Have to say tho its quite time consuming and its not really something you can just plug in and go, no matter what the adverts say.
My initial conclusions are that its a great bit of kit with huge potential, but the finished quality isn't quite there at the budget end of the spectrum. (If you can call 400quid cheap lol)
I think mine will be used to prototype parts with the finalised parts being ordered from Shapeways
If anyone wants anything printed as a proof of concept/prototyping then I'm happy to do so.
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A little update :)
Trying to use the water soluble PVA filament ended up ruining the nozzles as when the stuff overheats its burns and leaves a residue thats nigh on impossible to remove.
On the whole its working OK, but more even tinkering is required
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Good luck with your 3D printing.
I had a miniUP! printer for 18 months or so, and initially, produced good results.
But how you form your cad model also has an effect on quality.
A major move on my part last Christmas, means I no longer have either of my printers.
The attached photo is of a horizontal steam engine at 1/10th scale. The file was for a full size engine.
This was a complete set of parts right down to the piston rings, and all printed successfully, but could not repeat this quality just before I gave the printer away.
Stick with one supplier for your filament, it varies so much, and remember - rubbish in rubbish out.
And it does absorb moisture, so keep it in an airtight container, with silica Gel.. until needed.
cheers :-))
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The things I have been producing have been pretty simple.
I have been using Tinkercad
https://www.tinkercad.com/
you need to register but its quick and easy to pickup
Heres the servo mounts I designed an printed for my Tirpitz Build:-
A simple U bracket to fit the turret servo
(http://i532.photobucket.com/albums/ee322/Essex2Visuvesi/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-04/8CEBC747-A310-402A-93BD-BBB1F0FBBA92.jpg) (http://s532.photobucket.com/user/Essex2Visuvesi/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-04/8CEBC747-A310-402A-93BD-BBB1F0FBBA92.jpg.html)
Rudder servo mount
(http://i532.photobucket.com/albums/ee322/Essex2Visuvesi/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-04/4B990320-AFE4-48EB-9DBF-3ABC24087D24.jpg) (http://s532.photobucket.com/user/Essex2Visuvesi/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-04/4B990320-AFE4-48EB-9DBF-3ABC24087D24.jpg.html)
(http://i532.photobucket.com/albums/ee322/Essex2Visuvesi/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-04/911165F8-4E1A-4084-B964-FC56CC1194FB.jpg) (http://s532.photobucket.com/user/Essex2Visuvesi/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-04/911165F8-4E1A-4084-B964-FC56CC1194FB.jpg.html)
A bit of overkill perhaps but It was fun designing it and I can simply upscale it for larger servos
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Not to be funny, but you could build almost true prototypical Liberty ships or X-Lighters using this type of printer. Printing the hole for the prop shaft is just the beginning, you could print integral motor mounts and even gear box casings with input and output orifices attached and aligned to the hull!
It is definitly the way ahead.
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Not to be funny, but you could build almost true prototypical Liberty ships or X-Lighters using this type of printer. Printing the hole for the prop shaft is just the beginning, you could print integral motor mounts and even gear box casings with input and output orifices attached and aligned to the hull!
It is definitly the way ahead.
At a cost!!!!!!
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ok2 ...."Printing the hole"...............goodness last week we were talking about the speed of darkness {-)......now we are going to manufacture a roundish nothing!
Could we combine the two and manufacture a roundish nothing that is also totally devoid of light?
Sorry guys....couldn't resist......Monty Python & the Emperors new clothes O0........... Derek
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Not to be funny, but you could build almost true prototypical Liberty ships or X-Lighters using this type of printer. Printing the hole for the prop shaft is just the beginning, you could print integral motor mounts and even gear box casings with input and output orifices attached and aligned to the hull!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNJsu8K0RkI
Here's a video of my Ultimaker2 printing my microspringer hull. As you said integral motor mount and hole for the stuffing tube (simple 3mm/2.1mm brass tube for a M2 shaft). Fun times indeed !
But on my next version (twin motor), i'll completely remove the motor mount and use rigid couplings.