Model Boat Mayhem - Forum

Dry Dock / Shipyard: Builds & Questions => Yachts and Sail R&D: => Topic started by: warspite on March 13, 2015, 03:22:05 PM

Title: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: warspite on March 13, 2015, 03:22:05 PM
Decided a couple of months ago to buy another Victory, this time I want to make it work, 1. by not having it fitted with a underwater fin or motor, ideally all the weight inside and the mast a lot lighter than previously to reduce the counterbalance effect, sails would probably be furled but for those at deck level.
Just need advice for the best way to do this, yes, all weight at the lowest point and equally distributed, lightest servo(s) to pull the sails left and right etc, was actually thinking of using the kits masts with 1-1.5mm brass tube bonded to it to give some strength.
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: plastic on March 14, 2015, 11:12:35 AM
I built this model many years ago - I seem to remember it had an awful lot of plastic above the waterline - please post photos of how you make this work.
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: warspite on March 14, 2015, 05:37:39 PM
well I am relenting and showing a photo of the ship in the test tank, it has the fin fitted and is cumbersome to fit and remove, ideally I would prefer to remove it completely, so that is why I am looking into reducing the weight topside.
It took nearly 250-300g to work at the length it is, she's sailed only once with this fin, and although it did work the weather was 1. too cold and 2. not enough of a breeze to give the results needed to see if it worked correctly, a gust did give the chance of working but it went into reverse.
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: warspite on March 24, 2015, 01:46:31 PM
I built this model many years ago - I seem to remember it had an awful lot of plastic above the waterline - please post photos of how you make this work.
The vessel shown is what I call the 'Royal Soveriegn', after looking at the names of 100 gun ships of the line - decided to call this the least inocuious named vessel, it is a Airfix 1:180 scale plastic kit, with a keel fin weighing about 250-300g painted black.
the kit is generally built with all but the mast sections and ports closed - in fact the 'crew' is actually constructed from the guns  :D , the masts are constructed from brass tube and rod, the weights did not really seem that excessive when completed, the bow sprit and a couple of davits are in brass to ensure their survivability in normal use.
Masts are sections built up from different diameters of brass tube soldered together, the spars are again sections of brass tube based on the diameter of the plastic spars and are passed through the masts and soldered together, the for and main mast are connected together using aircraft 2mm rod linkage connected to a standard sized servo (it's what was in stock), the rudder is a micro servo as is the receiver, a hitec feather.
as stated i want to build this one so that all the weight is inside the vessel so obviously the masts have to be lightened, the existing masts are really not straight enough or strong enough to be used, i think it would not take much to deform them in use, strengthing them with brass rod might be possible though hiding this could be interesting. the spars would be an interesting problem, how to incorporate brass rod or tube into a small section of plastic
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: warspite on April 03, 2015, 10:37:47 AM
Re examined the original masts from the kit, other than the top sections being a little flimsy for my liking, they would still be acceptable for furled sails at the tops and the main and middle ones still operating, the bowsprit would be brass again to take knocks.

The sails would have to be fitted differently, definitely sew an overlocker stitch along the edges to make it neater, but not sure if it would detract from the effect as the stitch would be bigger than scale - plus I don't sew.

Getting back to the masts, the only odd thing is to make the rotating part of it flush with the deck and then it shaped to accept the existing plastic profile, so that if it does break it can be replaced with the spare set or a completely redesigned version in a tougher material.
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: Brooks22 on April 05, 2015, 04:29:24 AM
I use wooden dowels for masts and spars. Wood is light and stiff, making it better for spars than plastic or brass. I find that a weighted fin keel is a necessity. It's easy to rc the braces, probably easier than rotation of masts.

Here are a couple threads that may give you ideas:

Meatbomber's footy brigantine:
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1110506

My topsail schooner w/braces for topsail and sheets for mainsail:
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1071509

Hope this helps. Email me at bkmart@hotmail.com if you have questions.
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: tigertiger on April 05, 2015, 07:27:17 AM
For masts, dowels are good. If you can find a softwood dowel, or make them, these may be better than hardwood. Hardwoods can be brittle and have less flex in them than softwoods. Softwoods have some flex and are more able to take the strain without snapping.
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: warspite on April 05, 2015, 01:17:08 PM
Here is the fore main and mizzen created for Soveriegn - IN BRASS - there weights were that excessive really, what I am trying to do is shift that weight prodimently inside the vessel to reduce the keel fin, the plastic actual masts for the vessel are about - at a guess - 10% of the weight, when you add the sails and thread etc, maybe another 5% - the bowsprite was 22g, the foremast 33g, the main mast 39g and the mizzen 50g, these weights included sails and in the case of the mizzen took the feather receiver and hitec servo into account.

dowel would be similar to what I did in brass, where the detail of the kit would detract, it looks like I need to put the hull together with the changes for supporting/sealing the deck, and install the kits masts, then adding the weight in the hull to see if I can get it to stay upright - after the servo, battery and receiver.

There's not a lot of room to remove the battery, so that is situated at the rear, but the removal of the engine as found on the sovereign will help with that.
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: tigertiger on April 05, 2015, 04:49:16 PM
Is the keel fin going to be removable? If not I suggest you make it so, in order that you can replace it with a longer or heavier one if needed.
With a boat of such a small scale, you really can't get away without one. Even if you used platinum (twice the weight of lead by vol) as ballast.


When designing the keel and bulb, think about the waters you will sail it in. The main consideration is weeds, as it will affect the placement of the keel bulb, and this will affect the keel fin design.
There is info on keel design and build in this book http://gb.trapletshop.com/an-introduction-to-radio-controlled-scale-sailing-models-by-phillip-vaughan-williams it is half price at the moment, but you might also try the library service.
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: warspite on April 05, 2015, 05:20:21 PM
The original vessel sovereign - shown above - has a 250-300g keel fin that is removable, on you tube, someone built a wasa and sailed it in their swimming pool, using just a couple of coins as ballast.
 
This vessel is attempt number two, using the original masts and an attempt to lose the keel fin, whose depth is - yes - a weed trap.
 
if in the end a keel fin is needed, i just will have to figure out a way of fitting one that is not as bad as sovereigns.
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: warspite on April 06, 2016, 09:49:23 PM
Well I am resurrecting this again, so to get into it I am making the crew, first of the officer and men of the marines, first the officer and then all present and correct the men, quality of the web cam is rubbish so will have to take phone pictures - plus they will look better with paint on them.
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: warspite on April 06, 2016, 09:54:39 PM
just another 109 crew members to go  :D
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: Klunk on April 07, 2016, 02:05:56 PM
have you thought about making the masts out of carbon fiber rod? also the sails could be made of silk or  ripstop nylon.
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: Kipper on April 07, 2016, 04:29:14 PM
I agree with Klunk about the masts & yards, the mast on my Micro Magic is 5mm o/d carbon fibre tube & it can stand
a fair gust without problem.
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: warspite on April 07, 2016, 07:38:00 PM
Never considered it to be honest, thing is I want to use the original kits masts, with all the detail etc., as mentioned above, there is not a lot of pressure exerted, depending on the weight of the final model, the issue I have been racking my brain over in the last week, is, how do I keep the mast solid (using the same holes the kit uses but adjust the spars with cord, obviously with the mast adjusted to have a 'U' clip staple inserted at the spars height then the spar has a 'U' clip inserted on top so that with sufficient clearance it doesn't allow the spar to move left or right in sliding out of the mast clip, so acts like a locking mechanism, but with sufficient clearance on the mast clip it allows the spar to rotate backwards and forwards about the mast, the sketch is to explain it, the dark u clip is the lock on the spar the white clip is through the mast.

Next would be how to adjust the spars by cord, the foremast and main mast main spars would be connected using cord so when one is turned the other turns (the length of the foremast would be the distance between the connections on the main mast spar so they turn the same), as would the middle spars on the foremast and main mast, again linked to allow them turn at the same rate.

The issue is turning them, so the solution I have thought might work is to run cords from the linkages on the foremast main and middle spar to the main mast at the side of the mast and then run them down the mast, under the deck to say a sail winch, now the obvious thing is that the distances are wrong so the link on the foremast main spar has to be at the distance of the middle foremast spar, then both will run the same distance and therefore run round the winch, both would then run up through the deck to the same point on the other side of the main mast and onto the foremast spars - phew that was long winded.

Now - how to turn them through 90 degrees, hhmm, see if I can flare out the ends of some plastic tube or chamfer the inside so no sharp edge, then heat it and bend it to create tubular bends, 4 off, two for the main and two for the middle spars, hide them under the flat areas when the masts change section, same for through the deck to the inside.

Is this a good way of doing it, the scale is miniscule and I don't know if its feasible - ever since the purest didn't like me turning the masts - ' oh that's not the way you do it, it's supposed to be by a sail servo and winches', well I did the sovereign by turning the masts and that worked - well, sort of, it does mean that the detail is not there, so for this I am trying to keep the masts stationary and rotate the spars - I will try and photo with my phone rather than the web cam, resolutions better.
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: warspite on April 07, 2016, 08:46:19 PM
here is a better picture of the marine contingent, also with the standard scale of a paint tin for comparison -  the fore main and mizzen masts, they are glued together so will need prizing apart to fit the parts 142, 158, 176, the spars are not glued and are just a tight fit, but you get the sense of scale that I am trying to work to, the brass versions are exact size replication.
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: petesubman on April 09, 2016, 08:24:22 AM
Hi  have you thought about drilling out the thickest of the masts and inserting a steel rod  as a stiffener  or if you really want keep the original masts  cut them in half make a channel in two halves add steel rod glue back together, or as was suggested  carbon or fg tube regards pete
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: warspite on April 09, 2016, 09:58:02 AM
Hi, petesubman, yes I thought about 'inserting' a stiffener, trouble is length, a small diameter drill bit being up to 50-75mm long is impossible to find, slicing it in two would also be difficult due to the width being about 5-8mm wide 1. without shattering the plastic 2. keeping the cut straight 3. my abilities being what they are, lol.

The other option was to bond a steel rod / brass tube (its amazing what dia brass rod can be about 1mm in dia meter) up the back of the main parts of the mast, then it's disguising it, this is the best option, so looking at doing that.

its the swivelling of the spars and how to stiffen them up that a challenge now, I suppose I could bond more brass tube to it, which seems to be the better option.

The marines have half their trousers on now, later I will complete the front painting, once dry I can do the tunics and later the faces and hands and then the final finish with black - deep joy, in between the ships captain will get his legs replaced and then I will build Nelson, and as many crew as possible.
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: warspite on April 10, 2016, 12:45:09 PM
Ok, opening the box, the overall opinion of the A50049 kit 1:180 HMS VICTORY (The National Museum version) compared to the 09252G HMS VICTORY (1815-2015 version) is that the quality is better - Soveriegn was built using 09252g.

Although I like 09252g's style of box, the A50049 box quality and artwork is better, the paper work and the packaging of the bits are also better in quality.

The instructions are essentially the same though do look better, the shrouds instructions are on a separate sheet (though still as complex as before) and there is a safety instruction leaflet and sales leaflets included. the flags are on thicker paper than 09252g's, but this wasn't designed to be a rc boat, so will have to look at getting some copies from Sheldon Cooper after watching 'fun with flags'.

Big quality difference with the vac formed sails - in this they are from a thicker material and show the detail that was lost on 09252g's, very impressed.
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: warspite on April 10, 2016, 01:08:15 PM
WOW, after opening the bag, there is a definite difference in quality with the kit, lighter in colour and a lot crisper, time will tell if the fit is better.

I bought some 1/16" 1.58 Dia. aluminium rod, this is going to be bonded to the mast to create rigidity, at the moment I was thinking to the rear but on reflection I am putting it on the front of the masts to hide it behind the sails, once painted it should blend in better.
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: warspite on April 10, 2016, 01:37:34 PM
I've just fitted the shroud frame together, this is far better than 09252g's, which was a pain to assemble, the same fault is still present with the frame, in that when creating the shrouds you are supposed to wrap the thread around one side as you move down the horizontal notches, how, when a bobbin is bigger than the gap left as you move down the frame and the two horizontal stiffeners get in the way, its in black so its difficult to see black thread or brown thread if you decide that you don't want to use the thread supplied (ratlines are black not white or dark brown hemp coloured I would think).

So I have to work out how much thread I need and wind that onto a small bit of sprue so I can weave it through the body of the frame between the lines, if they made the frame sides wider to be stronger ie not bend, and removed the two stiffeners then that would help, so I will see if I can do a shroud without modifying the frame.
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: warspite on April 11, 2016, 07:38:52 PM
Well mayhemmers, the marines got finished last night, not that happy, but at 1/180 (11-12mm high) they will look ok on board, now just to finish Nelson, the captain, 1st lieutenant, and two 2nd lieutenants, 3 powder monkeys, and then the remaining various crews - 64 of which are just for the guns.
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: warspite on April 11, 2016, 08:39:00 PM
Well the following is the remainder of those done, in order Nelson, Captain, 1st Lieut. 2nd Lieut, 2nd Lieut Jnr, powder monkey 2 bucket, powder monkey 1 bucket and runner - awww, in e cute, all from the family related to joseph merrick
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: ballastanksian on April 11, 2016, 11:17:18 PM
At that scale they are perfectly acceptable especially as people would notice the rigging being wrong long before they started picking holes in your sculpting. Not that your rigging is going to attract critisism.

Whilst time consuming, could you make your own shroud frame incorporating modifications?
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: warspite on April 12, 2016, 06:36:33 PM
I could, but I will use the ones supplied, with the left one modified it's just about acceptable for the victory with the top stiffener removed, i'll perceveir with the new one. I have another 21 members of the crew to build from the bits from sovereign, but I am going to do a little bit of cad to illustrate the crew build, just in case anyone's interest in how I did it (badly).  {-), oddly they never explain whether the collected strands at the top just lie on the frame or pushed together so that they sit inside the upright that produce the XYZ hole frame.
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: warspite on April 12, 2016, 06:47:31 PM
I built this model many years ago - I seem to remember it had an awful lot of plastic above the waterline - please post photos of how you make this work.

Apologies for the delay, but here is how Sovereign was controlled - in this Victory, the motor, sail board and control gear is different again, depending on whether the test on the motor works out as planned or not will determine if a motor is being fitted - if so then the rudder will be better placed or different if not fitted - still undecided yet. 
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: warspite on April 12, 2016, 08:03:41 PM
Here is the Marines construction - using the cannons from Sovereign (and now Victory - as when under sail they are usually behind the doors - and the only visable guns are those that are those supplied with carriages and therefore will have crew  :} ) I constructed the marines in exactly the same way even for Nelson and the other officers and minions, that the gun (parts 201-240) and first cut some 3/64" styrene rod or thereabouts, one at 4.5mm long (usually the right leg, and one 7-8mm long (usually the left leg), why longer, so that the extra bit can be fitted into the hole in the deck (may be cut off later if being used where he is not fitted that way), it also allows the item to be inserted as seen earlier into a piece of card to stand them upright (two small slices in a cross formation into a cereal box thick card strip the poked through with a cocktail stick).

They are they glued together either as in the marines right next to each other or separated so to simulate walking, I have bent them in the past for a figure scrubbing the deck on his hands and knees  :D. though with styrene I will need to cut them and glue them in situe. so now we have the legs.
 then once dry we glue the body to the top of the legs, either vertical or various angles to simulate a slight bent over, or so they look vertical when walking or in this crew, cutting the lower part to simulate a better looking bending or climbing  %).

The arms are done in exactly the same way as the legs from a thinner gauge rod, though bending them is more difficult as it tends to break with this old stuff I have, they are cut into 4mm each, if the gun is being done I didn't see the point in making a separate arm to sit behind the gun, but on reflection should have, I might still do so, prior to them boarding ship but it will be time consuming.

The hat for the marines is just a 1mm long piece of 3/64" rod placed front to back and central - well almost, and for the officer a longer piece to go over the dia of the cannon face with a small piece of arm sat on top of that to try and recreate the cornered hat, for the officers hat the same is done but turned shoulder to shoulder 90, the sword and the sheath are lengths of the thinner rod, as is the telescope, the buckets carried by the little uns, is actually the bottom cut off part of the bodies, since they have short bodies than the crew, these simple pieces of rod don't half make the vessel look alive.

Paint, red 19 for tunics, 85 black for hair, hats, boots and guns, silver for the sword flesh 31 for faces, hands, arms, legs and bodies, white 22 for the sailors clothes and the wigs, and with extreme difficulty the cross banding on the marines tunics. Paint brush - cocktail sticks, act as a stirrer as well as the brush  :}
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: ballastanksian on April 12, 2016, 08:13:47 PM
Simple enought to recreate!
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: petesubman on April 16, 2016, 01:41:25 PM
Hi warspite, here's  a not very good pic of sophies starboard side with the flesh colour  test and original ochre paint scheme, regards  pete
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: warspite on April 16, 2016, 02:08:03 PM
In your opinion which do you prefer?, Ocre or flesh, I'm split between both, i.e. I prefer a colour that would be not as brash as the ocre but not as close to the idea of flesh - to pinky for my taste.

Looking at the close ups of the original Victory the colour is not that bad, but how does that translate to scale colours from revell or humbrol, I am leaning towards doing the same as the original colour, that is until someone puts the new colour scheme next to it and its a better look then i'll change it.
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: warspite on April 16, 2016, 02:26:52 PM
here is the latest update - the sails, just need to mark them out and wash the petro wax coating off them, that will be the next update, the colour matt 74 is a close match to this next picture and that is what the instructions say paint her above the water line - that I know I didn't like when I did it on sovereign - so changed it to XF-4 yellow green, so will nip out and have a look at what else is available.
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: warspite on April 16, 2016, 02:28:15 PM
well that didn't go according to plan, it's lighter than 'paint' showed it  >:-o
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: warspite on April 19, 2016, 07:36:48 PM
Update, On Sunday I constructed 90% of the Bowsprite, just the two spars to fit and a clean up before I can photo it, then it needs painting and rigging (well before then getting the angle and the support fitted (see sovereigns arrangement at the top of this page), again its in brass to take the knocks, its also in smaller diameter tube and more - model accurate, i.e. its been made to look like the plastic version.

Spent some of the weekend, cutting, washing sails and doing shrouds, still I did cover the rear of the bottom gun ports - then realised I should have fitted the doors first and then cover them, like I did with sovereign - doh.

Most of the time was spent cleaning out some of the loft and searching all of it for bits and pieces, namely I used to have a Humbrol paint gun, but must have thrown it away, so will have to wait a few months to get a new one, so will have to buy a couple of rattle cans to prime the outside once the stability and balance test is done, also get a good quality multi-tool - have you ever used a vastly oversized drill (Bosch with that special chuck that only excepts SD drill bits) for doing holes through walls with a multi-tool grinding disk to cut 1.2mm dia. brass tube etc., hairy and difficult to do without a vice.
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: ballastanksian on April 19, 2016, 08:23:19 PM
Have another look. I couldn't find three moulds thismorning until I looked again and they just showed up {:-{

The Gremlins have loads of fun moving stuff anf disguising things <*<
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: warspite on April 22, 2016, 06:30:27 PM
I know, but I know the thing was just a wreck last time I had it, and was hoping to resurrect it, just have to see what the badger is in the local model shop when I go and look at paint.
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: warspite on April 22, 2016, 08:21:20 PM
Okay the long awaited update - if anyones bothered (loads of views no comments but from a couple of interest parties !!!???)

I have finished the construction of the Bowsprite - in brass - and other than a little mistake its almost identical to the plastic version, I have a small dremel which is rechargeable - yea - its charge dissappates after about 3 minutes, so have to swap for a small reachargeable drill which runs at about a third of the speed to be any use, my other two drills are a spare and is as old as the hills and a Bosch - suitable for construction hole drilling - scary.

Cleaning the brass of solder etc is a pain and panel wipe will have to be bought before I apply any paint, when I get that as well.

the gun deck has also been modified to take the bowsprite, I just have to adjust the hull to accept the modified gun deck.

Here's the piccies.
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: warspite on April 22, 2016, 08:27:05 PM
I am on the last two shrouds and they should be finished soon, then during the weekend, I will be mainly washing the sails to get the wax out of them, I can then start to modify the guns to be detailed up a jig made and start thinking of either drilling the decks for them and the sailors or apply the deck finish as detailed in the soliel thread, I love the effect that was created and I am going to have a go  :-)).
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: warspite on April 22, 2016, 10:06:41 PM
Oops, the jack staff is in the wrong place - oh well i'll fix it tomorrow  >:-o
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: warspite on April 23, 2016, 01:37:56 PM
Well been out this morning and bought the 'Ocre' that I believe closely matches that on Victory from unbuiltnautilis's very informative photos on the other thread, more of the deeper orangey part of a daffodil, of in the case of the photo's below the colour of a stock pencil, but then when you get to the shop there is no Ocre - or what is purporting to be Ocre is actual a dark orange like a Satsuma, even the Ocre in military figurine acrylics is tepid and Tamiya xf-4 is a closer match to that, so I got Humbrol's Matt 24 - signal yellow I think it said on the stand, the photo's shows it in direct sunshine (what the hell is that - surprise surprise its sunny) and the next is inside on the desk - though not exactly perfect I am happier with it - just have to learn how to thin it down for the airbrush.

Now I know its a cheap and nasty airbrush, but for the amount of spraying I do, it will be adequate, most of the painting I have been doing is with either a cheap and nasty kiddies water paints set of brushes, not used the Humbrol president brushes or those from the kit yet, or cocktail sticks and a bit of thin styrene rod, just have to see if I can connect it to my compressor.
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: petesubman on April 23, 2016, 02:04:23 PM
Warspite im sure it will look the part, after all its your boat, i found when spraying that lots of thin coats are better any runs you get the thinners will evaporate , just remember  to the gun moving  i usually have practice on something before getting serious, regards  pete
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: warspite on April 23, 2016, 02:11:13 PM
My previous boss was a professional industrial sprayer, and he gave me a few pointers in the past when I expressed an intrest in spraying for the company incase any one was off or on site, never had a go but did try rattle can on a seahawk kit, that came out ok, though the plastic was grey anyway.

Result - my son has just handed me his artwork pastels - that he apparently doesn't like using and doesn't need for his GCSE art any more, vintage pine and ash effect to follow (he said hopefully), whilst in hobbycraft, they wanted 60p per stick of pastel, and even then not a great selection considering the size of the store, good job I decided to find out what colours I needed first.
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: warspite on April 23, 2016, 02:21:18 PM
Result No.2 - my old Micon compressor still works and the Humbrol airbrush connector fits like a glove.
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: warspite on April 23, 2016, 04:08:53 PM
Well fixed the Bowsprite, I have panel wiped it and as I was doing it, low and behold it started threatening to rain, must have jinxed it before when I said it was sunny, next it will be snowing  >:-o.

Best place to store panel wipe, loft no, kitchen definite no, outside in the rain no, outside in the outside bike cabin - uuurrrghhh, archnids home yes.
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: warspite on April 23, 2016, 05:52:21 PM
Some detail on the rear of the Bowsprite, though not perfect, it will not be to KPNUTS standard or stan or any of the other absolutely astounding modellers on this site (brownie points collecting  %))
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: warspite on April 23, 2016, 06:41:54 PM
And with some primer on it - the detail isn't as bad as I first thought it might be, but it was an experiment, will be taking the thread wrapping off and replacing it with plasticard as that will look neater
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: warspite on April 23, 2016, 07:23:48 PM
 :-), so here it is with the steel bands, its drying now after being primed, doesn't look to bad, is there an easy way to take the contents of a Humbrol small can and mix them efficiently before adding the thinner to get the consistency required for spraying?
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: warspite on April 24, 2016, 11:28:37 AM
In he words of Mr Williams from the fast show - today I will be mainly adding the rain water shrouds over the gun ports, I will post a pic of the bowsprite and the work done in due course   :D
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: warspite on April 24, 2016, 01:46:41 PM
As my eyes re-adjust to normal vision, here are the latest updates, all the rain / water shrouds are above the know gun ports, some are protected by rails of architrave (looks like a picture rail profile we had in our front room many years ago) or the ratline fixing rails to the shrouds or are just too close to the top of the ship for it to matter (if I've missed any - please let me know now as I am planning on painting soon - Kudos to unbuiltnautilis's photos - note that nearly all photo's of Victory I have looked as recently never show two areas of the ship in great enough detail, the end of the bowspite forward of the main spar i.e. the jack pole and forward of it, and the other is the area between the mizzen mast and main mast where the two ratline shrouds are around where the steps to the main deck would be, I can't figure out where the boom would be slung from, it's pivot is at the end of the outside platform where the steps up the side are and it ends just after the start of the rear outer platform, but nothing between).

Also as promised the painted bowsprite (or should that be bow sprit - a few sites have it as this).

will have to check the painting section to see how others mix the small cans efficiently as no suggestions yet on here.

PPS. still impressed with the quality of this kit compared to the previous, it does have some issues but they are not as bad and can be overcome with a bit of knife work, you can tell that the mould is suffering and some warping and pitting has occurred in the mould, would love to have got a prestine kit from years ago, surprised there are only two boats for the deck, in the painting Fall of Nelson, it shows at least 4 of the 5 that would be stowed there, though according to one site, to protect against splitters and damage to crew when in action, they would have cleared for action and put them overboard and had them towed behind.
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: warspite on April 24, 2016, 10:24:52 PM
Okay last update for today (what do you mean yeaaaa  >:-o)

I managed between spells of rain to spray with Tamiya matt white the deck and inside the hull, inside to make it lighter and easier to see, will need a few coats but will see how that goes later. as suggested it's patchy just need to decide what pastels are needed to get the upper deck colours right, for the gun deck I have to paint the deck with the Matt 24 and then attempt to create that vintage pine effect, deep joy.

This is the ships boats first coat, Humbrol 10 is gloss so using it as an undercoat, it went on patchy anyway so needs a coat of a matt brown paint or just may leave it gloss, the white is Humbrol 22 and is the first coat, so again is patchy, even with panel wipe its not going on well, so the kits got issues with reacting with paint, hopefully not that bad it just seems to be the odd sprue set.

The guns are painted in matt black (that big tin is gonna have to be thrown - need some fresh), the carriages are part painted with the fixing hole drilled so once they have been painted the guns can be fitted and detailing can begin  :D. Until the decks have been painted I cannot fit the guns or build the crew by drilling the needed holes and finishing the detailing, though I have to do the buoyancy test before that - so many things to do what order to do them in, grrr.

these last pictures are of the main and foremasts, I have sewn a hook to where the spar would be fitted (these hooks are used in the waist band of trousers and skirts above the zip where the clasp has failed, on the main mast I have used one of the mating parts to act as the way of moving the sails, by running the thread through the eyelets down to the deck each end of the thread passes either side of the mast, it will become more apparent later, the foremast only needs the hook as the main and fore spars will be operated from the foremast, just have to figure how to rotate the spars using a standard servo with a limited internal width (75-80mm max at the widest point), a sail winch with 1.5 turns would be ideal so may get one - at 49g its also quite light, the only issue is it slipping the thread and then the whole boats a sit on the bench for life as access in is restricted, a sail arm on the other hand might be better, again access is tight if not none existant if the servo if placed too far from the rear, I will try and draw a sketch of what I am describing.

Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: ballastanksian on April 25, 2016, 10:32:09 PM
Sorry to have been away! I like the bowsprit, your soldering isn't bad at all. If all the brass was clean and relativly grease free then it should not have been a problem. My issue is to solder,and then decide to add just a small bit more solder which then becomes too much that needs lots of effort to remove >>:-(

I reccomend Fluxite as it seems to make the solder more controllable and isn't corrosive.

Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: warspite on April 26, 2016, 11:03:17 PM
Since we moved into this house 24 years ago, we have mod the central heating system a couple of times with a fresh boiler in 2005 and replacement radiators and altering the pipe run a couple of times, when a tradesman turns up and when me and my father and father in law have dabbled in our own endevours to alter the system I bought plumbers solder and two types of flux a small pink tin and a black tub, both have been used and are as good as each other though the tub gets used more since its easier to open, the solder is about 4-5mm diameter (I know well oversized) but I am using it up, I do have some electrical flux cored for electronics, ideal for the more intricate work, lately though (if 2 years is lately) it has been heavy duty stuff like this, it blackens up fast and yes some solder is heavy, but the annoying thing the most is that those little grinders that come with multitools don't half go quickly when trying to give a grain/key for paint, it appears an industrial grinder disk is needed for a standard drill if it needs to be effective enough, but that's a dangerous Darwin award thought.

Paint - its not ronseal - matt 24 doesn't appear to reflect what is on the lid, 1st its more of a mustard, need a more yellower colour (like those thin central reservation bollards), 2nd its glossy, so next experiment is to apply a more rigorous mixing technique, see if that works, then spraying, to see if that improves the effect.

Foremast - did a boo boo last night, the platform to the foremast got glued on, why is that a problem, I was supposed to finish the bonding of the ali tube to the spars and other fasteners, then paint the spars and masts, also fitting this bit I didn't forsee how I was going to fit the shrouds so they looked right.

Sorry no photo's, forgot to take my phone to the loft, will catch up soon.
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: ballastanksian on April 27, 2016, 10:01:12 PM
No worries. take your time and sort your stuff out :-))

Humbrol aint has of late been rather hit and miss in quality due to being made in China so while one can expect the colour to differ a bit between tin lid and contents, it should not fall into a different description. Bright yellow hould just be that and not a ocherish mustard! I have a tinlet of Matt varnish that is like treacle and a tin of 26 which is similar. They are both useable with brush painting, but to get the right mix for airbrusing would be fun at best.


 
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: warspite on April 27, 2016, 10:12:41 PM
Well tonight's update - not a lot but here goes, the next set of photos consist of, in the foreground the middle mast of the fore mast with its hook, the main mast again with its hook and eye (hoping this arrangement works and is strong enough, no thread was used to secure it - just the epoxy), and in the background the midlle mast of the main mast with its hook, the top mast of all three will not be swivelling, just glued as normal and secured, with a stiffener (not sure yet what size to make it, will see about getting either some even thinner rod).

The incomplete foremast bundle  - all the items to assemble the foremast, shrouds, sails and various bits including the spars, but as they haven't been constructed yet then it's an incomplete set. This set is like this so when the stability test is undertaken I can tie it all together and just plug it into the top deck, in essence all its weight wont be far out when I determine the amount the sail board needs.

The bow sprite with its second coat of paint, they yellow is still too mustardy, but it will do, a more vigerous stirring using a 14.4v portable bosch drill (who's battery was not as charged) and a piece of sprue will lots of prongs sticking out - like a Montezuma Aztec sword  :D a slow rotation built up to a decent speed appears to have mixed it a bit better.

the gun carriages - the paint looks quite glossy, they were in their top deck and gun deck quantities but have now been separated into those that are for the relative decks by a certain criteria.

lastly - the 6 main decks guns with their cannons fitted, the 3 on the left are for the left side where the crew will be pulling the cannons into position, and the right side where the crew will be stood around preparing theirs, the same will be done for the gun deck where 5 will be putting the guns into position while the other side is getting ready, this bit is dependant on how much detail can be seen from between the boats and inside the gun ports - pointless if nothing can be seen, the first picture on page 2 shows what the guns look like on sovereign, with the side off you can see the guns quite well, but when she's closed up the area is like a dark pit.

The next two pictures are the pastels I will be trying to create the decks with, hopefully I might get some tips from others when / if they see this.  %)
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: warspite on April 27, 2016, 10:22:24 PM
My matt black has started to deteriate, its going like it's been mixed with water, clumpy, well it's nearly two years since it was last opened (I still have tinlets from 1982), not sure whether to get another fresh tin (this was a big tin of matt black - its probably had about half either evaporate or be used and is about 10-15 years old) a couple of small tinlets might do.  :embarrassed:
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: ballastanksian on April 28, 2016, 08:45:06 PM
Definitly replace. The Humbrol tins do let the air in after a times used and even goes off in a sealed tub.
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: warspite on April 28, 2016, 09:30:44 PM
Well tonights endeavors will be shown when I start part two, all I have done is cut the aluminium tube and epoxied it to the spars, I will photo them before adding the 'eye', then I can proceed on to the mizzen mast, collate and tie together the bits and then wait till I get to the shop for some thin rod for the top sails bonding session, and paint to finish of the bow sprite, namely a new tin of matt black.
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: warspite on April 30, 2016, 12:35:08 PM
So the next are the new provisions and what the inside of the vessel is like after my attempt at rattle can application ( the taped bits were to allow me to affix bits without having to scrape the paint off again - need more thought next time).

the wire is for the top spars and will act as stiffeners (pictures to follow), the small tin of enamel is the detail since my large tin has started to deteriote, but what is the Tamiya colour - it doesn't exactly say - is it enamel, acrylic ?
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: warspite on April 30, 2016, 04:35:19 PM
Well taking a break while paint dries etc.

The first is the eyes and hooks which I am using, I hope they work.

The next is the main and middle spar of the foremast, with their ali tube strengthener,

The next is the first attempt to fit the eye on the main spar and then the middle spar, then I remembered - you aint painted it yet, and had to remove my efforts, duh.

Next this is the either the main mast main spar or middle spar.

Now the interesting bit, I have started the decking, following kpnuts suggestion for deck painting, here goes, the first using UBN's excellent photos's is the main gun deck, the wood appears to look like a light version of antique pine, and I need to know if any one thinks its a good comparison or I can wash it off and try again, whereas the main upper decks appear to be like ash when its 'greyed' off or silvered, so the next two show this effect, now remember the ships been at sea for a while and no matter how much scrubbing of the deck, its gonna look used, so the two lines behind the main mast are the wear pattern for the officers etc who walk this beat, the mizzen deck is probably not as used so is lighter in colour, I could still darken this off to be a closer match to that of the main deck - comments please?
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: warspite on April 30, 2016, 07:49:56 PM
Well here is the next set of endevours, the cannons have their main rope attached, its not perfect but what do you expect at this scale  :embarrassed:

I had a play with the pastels and using my finger 'rubbed' the black and brown in a bit more, it's a bit better, and the antique pine effect is better with a bit more brown, the matt 24 stills shows through quite a lot but with the black and brown in a bit more its toning it down. Should I add more - not sure, just need the wife to get some hair spray and we can move on a bit more - I was going to mark out where the guns sit and put some black pastel on the wheels and pull them back to indicate running marks - not sure, I know there should be a blackening around the gun port from the powder residue but it might be a bit over the top.

I still have to fit the pulleys yet and I am trying to figure out what to do for them, hhmmm.

Now the bowsprite, (yep I painted it - the matt 24 got another good mix with the drill and sprue) it recommends Humbrol 10 for the wood, it's a bit glossy, as it is on sovereign, so opened my trusty stock of paint tins ( and I do mean OLD) and found a matt brown as you can see, I will try and remember what the colour is later, now for a bit of detailing, the spars are secured I suppose with rope, so out came the brown thread and I wrapped the yard with it - CAREFULLY  this time and its come out quite well, it just needs a coat of clear cote and its done, will do the same for the other spars and how do you put text between the photo's?
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: ballastanksian on May 01, 2016, 07:26:45 PM
Looking good. I like the idea of using the metal hooks. I wil try that one day. Regards the decks. There would be plenty enough crew members available to holy stone the deck daily. BUT. After action where powder and grot and soot from dscharde etc will have soiled the deck, then some filth would be expected.

I like to think of a warship as an organism. After a trauma such as battle damage, the cells (Sailors) with direction from the prions (Specialists i.e Carpenter and the like commnded by the Brains (Officers) will repair and heal the ship before normal routine returns including that darned deck scrubbing! Even later, Artificers would work to repair guns, engines boilers etc with help from sailors.

Anyhow, I don't think a bit of dirt is wrong if in the right context. Keep up the good work :-))
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: warspite on May 02, 2016, 11:16:18 AM
Well, it appears windows update has sought to destroy my pc, so i'm on the XP side at the moment, till i figure what or hope to repair the win 7, so here is the up date from last night and hopefully later i might be able to add some more.
 
The brown paint is Matt 70, gloss 10 will be used generally but to keep the forard bits weathered i have used that as will other bits as i see fit  :} .
 
The bow sprite with the 'M' sail fitted, just the rigging to fit and it will be ready for installing.
 
A sea of main mast bits, painted and fitted with hooks and eyes etc.
 
And the fore masts (the two other parts are painted but are show in the background before that happened.
 
 
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: ballastanksian on May 02, 2016, 12:37:44 PM
Cripes, that is a lot of parts. She should look very intricate when complete. And she'll be a working model as well :-)
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: warspite on May 02, 2016, 02:02:28 PM
Here is the next update - until i get into the loft to do some more, at the moment i am trying to fix the win 7 to no avail, restoring to a previous time doesn'y work and its annoying that some of the apps needed don't even open - like windows update - so i can uninstall the recent updates that have probably crashed it, even task manager is tempermental at opening, closing down doesn't work, it goes to black screen with the cursor in the middle for eons, so i am going to have to restart with opening the outlook and doing a pst file and try and see if i can find the settings so that i can do a complete reinstall from a windows image and if that doesn't work a completely fresh instal, any way back to the other fun item.
 
Because shes worth it  :}
 
The decks
 
The mizzen deck, not really sure about these colours, tried to do ash like UBN's photos (and failed), but may try something later before the detailing stage, using this as a base to work on top of, not sure if Humbrols acrylic varnish will react with what will go on top, provisionally more pastel and varnish (may consider trying to recreate the antique pine).
 
The main deck is even lighter, again may change it.
 
Now the good part, does this look like antique pine to you - it does to me, i am reasonably happy with the effect, its below decks so will be lost on those who cannot see inside.
 
The sails for the fore and main masts have been fitted, with the exception of the foremast top sail which is still drying from being painted, i'm going to the loft to start on the mizzen mast, using ali tube to replace yards for the large sail off the back, when the sails are next unfurled they are being treated to some clear coat at the sewed bits to strengthen the thread, i can't cut the threads till i am happy. The next two photo's are the way that i fitted the sails. I fitted the sails to allow for the assemblies to be strapped together for the stability test which i am hoping to get started next weekend - 1 weather permitted and 2 if i have managed to figure out what order to do things (that includes getting this pc to work properly).
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: warspite on May 02, 2016, 02:04:10 PM
missed a photo
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: warspite on May 02, 2016, 02:22:24 PM
An update on the quality of the kit - I still believe it is still better than the last one, but some issues have started to show them selves, there is a lot of stippling inside the hull around the bow and stern, sanding will get rid of the majority of this though, as with the previous kit the thinner sections of spars and upper masts are showing signs of warping and I have to add strengtheners to not only add rigidity (something i would have to do anyway), but straightening, there are a few kinks.
 
The grills in the upper and lower decks need opening out as the best detail is actually underneath,  {:-{ , for some reason, it would have been better if they had the prongs in the mould on the top, oh well.
 
The holes for the uprights between the decks, where the boats will sit were either not moulded or not penertrating so need drilling out, in fitting the mizzen deck I have noticed that i may need to remove the deck lugs on the hull to make the deck sit as it should, since i will be fitting a support strip like i did for sovereign, thats not a problem.
 
One other issue i have to concider is how much deck do i need to remove, the later part of the main deck is to go but should i do more and have it behing the ships wheel, its not more than 12mm to be gained, on sovereign i fitted a tube and it allowed the mizzen to slide into this to secure the mizzen deck to the ship, so may need to replicate this - watch this space.
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: ballastanksian on May 02, 2016, 08:03:15 PM
Hm, some things to ponder. I like the weather deck it looks well stoned with some signs of recent activity. If the tube arrangement worked last time, I would not bother reinventing the wheel.
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: warspite on May 02, 2016, 08:09:11 PM
Well that went well - NOT  >>:-( >>:-( >>:-( >>:-( >>:-( >>:-( >>:-( >>:-( , how much i can stress this  >>:-( >>:-( >>:-( >>:-( >>:-( >>:-( >>:-( >>:-( , one for each cannon i want to point at all the staff of MS. Had to reinstall win 7, the backups were a waste of time etc.
 
Anyway here is another photo to go on with, its the final sail fitted to the top yard of the foremast, got nothing else done with the boat, need to destress.
 
the next is the mizzen mast which has been modified yesterday its had the new yards fitted but not glued in yet.
 
then the final spar for the foremast
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: warspite on May 02, 2016, 08:15:03 PM
Stoned - I like that phrase,  {-) , next time i'm in the loft (workshop) i'll photo the arrangement to show what i mean, it will mean adjusting the bottom of the mizzen and will need to check if i have some material to do it (i went one size up on all the diameters when doing the sovereign masts so that the smallest diameter was rod - now i have found even thinner rod i could have made everything thinner and therefore lighter - over engineering things).
 
Will be using the XP side of the pc until i get the win 7 side up and running, deep joy.
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: ballastanksian on May 02, 2016, 08:40:37 PM
Procreating computers. You can't live with them and you can't live without them. Without them Mayhem would be a postal group with quarterly newsletters hand cranked by Martin having typed the templates out with his Olivetti, pasting grainy photos of stuff people have made.

Progress looks intricate.
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: warspite on May 03, 2016, 07:41:30 PM
Control - discuss,
 
While a sail servo is basically a beefed up version of a standard servo, and used for rotating an arm with the ends of the tethers fixed at each end, they usually have longer radii to rotate in, 70 i believe instead of the more common 45 about each centre, although well and good, they are also confined to the inside dimensions of the boat and the boat being 80mm wide that means i would be as well using a standard servo.
 
Sail winch, again about the size of a standard servo or can be smaller, weight as much (49g is the lightest i have seen for a standard sized unit), essentially a rotating pulley which rotates anything from 1.5 times to 8 times, which the tethers are wrapped around, unusual configeration is to have the tethers connected to the sail and taught to keep the tension on, or one end fixed to the pulley and it winds on the tether, the more accepted route is to have the tethers connected to a continous loop of thread that wraps around the pulley on the servo and the other around a pulley at the other end of the boat under spring tension so that it doesn't slip off, if slippage does occur, then the continous loop accounts for this as the distance it loops at is that of the pull required or there abouts.
 
Now this is not a big boat - its actually quite small at 80mm wide and 320mm long internally, access is extremelly small and if the thread breaks, unless your hands are about the size of a three year olds then there is no chance of tieing thread to a servo arm or wrapping the thread back around a pulley, so we go back to the solid linkage found in other attempts, rotating masts is an option at this early stage, but being refered to a girl, lol, means i need to discount this option, plus i want to make it as detailed as possible with the parts from the kit, i have an idea, it will require an experiment to see if the plan is feasable, but essentially, the idea is to have the inside bit so that access would not be required if a thread linkage breaks (a solid linkage breaking is a different kettle of fish).
 
One idea being toyed with, was to have the two decks removable, first the hull gets narrower as you move up the hull, though maybe enough to squeeze the lower deck past as an assemblyto the underside of the main deck, couple of other thoughts, how to seal sufficiently enough to allow water to enter the lower gun ports and not enter the hull or any other area as screwing down the deck would require the screws to pass through the top deck then through the bottom deck, unsightly as well, then there is the shrouds, these fit to the side of the hull, their platforms would need to be screwed to the hull, again unsightly, even painted black, they could be utilised to hold down the bottom deck if the holes and mating fixings on the decks matched up, eliminating deck screws, but, you see the problem.
 
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: warspite on May 03, 2016, 08:41:17 PM
Well here is a picture of the experiment, pulleys etc rely on the requirement to lift a load, a single pulley with a load, 1 meter pull 1 meter lift, 2 pulleys, should be in fact 1m pull, 0.5m lift, so in this instance the distance to travel is 90mm say by a single wrap around the screw 90mm travel equals 90mm pull, wrap around the screw and around the studding nut and fix to the second screw = 90mm travel equals 47mm pull, about 0.5 pull, now 90mm travel around the 1st screw around the studding nut around the 2nd screw, around the studding nut again and fixed to the screw = 90mm travel equals 24mm pull, about 0.23 pull.
 
So if it can be made smoother to operate, pulling the studding nut pulley (if replaced with pulleys) and wrapped the same, every 24mm of pull will equal 90mm of thread travel, so assuming that the travel through 45 on a standard servo arm is say 6.3mm (outer hole) then it should mean that it should pull the end of the thread 22.5mm, still not enough, so how do you pull 90mm with the travel of 6.3mm, increase the servo arm radii, 4x should provide 4x pull, will try again, initially i was going to use the eye at the top of the main mast to be the pulley for moving the foremast spars, will need to see if another experiment will provide the rotation required.
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: ballastanksian on May 03, 2016, 08:59:36 PM
Hm, lots to consider there. havng both decks made to come out can be done iff you make the removable part of the decks dimentionally the foot print of the hole they can be lifted through but this requires you do cut these parts out of the deck pieces and stick the outer section to the hull sides. This would make the hull stronger but there would be a gap around the removable piece into which water could trickle.

As for being described a girl for doing something a certain way; Its your blooming model, do as you want, tell em to 'Foxtrot Oscar' >>:-(

 There's a difference between an idea that is silly for common sense/ease of life issues, but this isn't the same as trying something out that you have worked on and testing it out.
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: warspite on May 04, 2016, 10:55:49 PM
It was a comment in jest to be honest  ;D , but it got me thinking over the last few months after that i got the new boat and the job took over and it wasn't till i got absolutley fed up with the current job that i decided to start this as a way of unwinding, early starts to miss traffic had me sat at work waiting to start, so with the abundant scrap paper started to work out the card board boats crane, then i decided - i know i will try to do the Victory - and here we are, currently with the pc not playing properly, that is taking over as i try to reinstall win 7 to the hard drive, need easus to clear the partitions as i have just formated the win 7 drive and its still got a partion on it, then i can try to fresh install win 7 again.
 
when weekend allows i have a plan to try a more near the mark experiment, using the type of eye hooks used on net curtains and see how that works, the previous experiment was going against screw threads and rough studding nuts, with the more rounded wire and shape of the eyes, there may be less resistance, if more eyes can be used to give a better pull then the next step would be to create a chain pulley from thick copper or brass rod so when painted they don't look out of place, the arrangement has to work duplicated so that when one side goes up the other side goes down if employed up the mast, i will try and do a sketch to show what is being planned, that way, a picture will show whats happening rather than a long text description. As far tensioning, the method used for guide ropes on tents will be used, to be honest the amount of force on the sails can't be that bad for sails this big, the issue is pulling a set angle to the deck and holding it at that angle, with  the wind unable to pull sufficiently to effect that angle.
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: ballastanksian on May 04, 2016, 11:01:17 PM
Fair enough! I wish you well with your computer alchemy and hope it returns you your sanity.

The magic element when making mechanisms that cannot be readily accessed is to make sure they are low wear, and utterly reliable. Experimenting is definitly the way to go especially to test an idea to destruction. If your mechainism continues working overnight without a nut coming loose or a friction issue melting someting then you should have a reliable system.

Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: warspite on May 05, 2016, 11:07:26 PM
The pc is currently back up and running, just a shed load of reinstalling to do - deep joy.

Part of the installing will be to get the picture resizer up and running, although I could re-attach the xp drive and do it there, the test was done - photo in the post to come, the test was to see what effect the eyes have, a more conclusive test to follow - a quick test was to see what the friction was going to be like - horrendous - the other test will be better as the thread is not sharing the same eye (most of my tools are in the loft).
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: warspite on May 07, 2016, 08:09:07 PM
Well, the pc has finished updating the main update, since I have just installed the MS Office, that has its own updates, deep joy.

here is a photo of the second test where the eyes were temporily fitted, the next test will be with them screwed into the wood separately.

next is the test tank in place and 90% filled for the test to sovereign to create a new smaller sail board, that test will allow the Victory stability test to be more ideal.
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: warspite on May 08, 2016, 12:28:22 PM
Well here is the first update for the sailboard assessment test - what happens here helps with the Victory.

To start - Sovereign

Next - The existing sail board, as you can see the weight is 356g, it ghosted about this and 359g.

A standard unistrut galvanised washer, the screw being used for the test ( I thought I had one that was half the length of the sail board but that was a different thread, this one is 50mm long, the other washers are also galvanised and make up the remaining weight of the sail board.

The water line is reached with the existing sail board, in fact its just under the water line , and she is very stable vertically, and like a scene from jaws, the sailboard in the test tank.
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: warspite on May 08, 2016, 12:32:54 PM
Here is the missing photo
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: warspite on May 08, 2016, 02:06:30 PM
Well that didn't go exactly to plan. :D

The similar weight on the shorter screw, and she heeled right over, half expected due to the moments of inertia, but so much so quickly, then I straightened the weight M10 holes in an M8 screw, the attached photo is the current weight, I initially had the weight down as shown using the wire to move the weight down to the bottom of the bolt, the whole weight is now about half the way down the sail board but the stern was down quite a lot and she was a lot lower overall ??????, not sure how considering the weight is less or equal, this weight is even less at 299g as I took a unistrut nut off, I know shifting the weight forward, eventually will help.

Well I took another 53g off by a nut, and she almost keeled over completely, so its back on, she is well up at the nose and  a large circular washer was removed as well, so whatever the weight of the attached bits is then that's the weight that gets made up in lead at that depth, it cannot be any worse than what was used before, the use of brass masts is not going to make this a comparative test, but it does help in knowing that the worst case is at 50mm below the hull - 233g or there about is sufficient to keep her upright and possibly stable.
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: warspite on May 08, 2016, 02:30:42 PM
Here is sovereign at here new water level, as you can see shifting the weight forward will level things back to neutral condition and the change in condition will not be any different to that previous, drat, was hoping that the level would have been at least at the required water level or just above, now I have to create the new sailboard and hope that it follows the same trim setting as this then the fun really begins with a wind test, to see if she heels to much.
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: warspite on May 08, 2016, 05:34:55 PM
Wow even with the threads separated the pull required is quite an effort, even with pulleys I think the effort would require the services of a large servo torque, the idea being considered is being shelved as the mast could not accommodate the force required to do it, the only option is a simple dual pull ie for 100mm pull it has to be pulled 50mm in the opposite direction (take out the hook on the right of the photo).

so internally I have to provide a 50mm lever over the 45 travel of the servo arm and translate this to a vertical movement through the deck,
 if everything was the same distances then ok but the amount of error in the outside pull being the same distance as the servo arm would defeat the object, unless I am over thinking this, that an arm on each side of the mast rising up and down pulling the thread the distance the servo moves will still give sufficient travel about the pivot to effect enough change, if tight enough then the wind will not pull it suffiently enough to change its angle. I will sketch it to demonstrate.
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: warspite on May 08, 2016, 07:16:34 PM
just made the replacement keel bulb, just need to fix it in the position it will sit based on the thread of the bolt, and trim it accordingly. Now i'll do the sketch.
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: warspite on May 08, 2016, 09:45:32 PM
Here is the sketch, the idea that both angles give different lengths is ok, as if the same is repeated on the other side of the mast then the opposite length applies, so they both balance each other out, but how to translate this to outside of the ship, if the linkage was a solid one, say a thin piece of brass rod (either side) and the thread was only on the outside if the thread breaks then its easily repairable, whereas, if it is inside and breaks it cannot be rectified.

Soooo - if the thread fixing point is the same on the spar as that on the servo arm (horn), then the smaller the radii the harder it is to ensure it is tight and does not deflect any more than a degree or so, to tight and its ability to rotate about the mast will be restricted, the object is to rotate the spar - not tie it down. Then I have to operate the upper spar in much the same way, easy enough if there was room to run another line up, but that's not possible so the plan is to do the control lines as shown.
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: warspite on May 09, 2016, 08:18:06 PM
well after careful head scratching, and getting splinters, rotating a servo arm under the deck with a movement being translated up through the deck at the main mast is not currently feasible, not with my building skills and equipment (oh to have the resources that some have and others like me aspire to  %) ).

new plan, the mizzen deck is always going to be removable - soooo - why not affix the drum servo here, to it's underside and transfer the thread up through the deck either side of the mast or the areas at the sides, the arrangement that is being thought about, is the ends are at a set distance from the deck with a hook, and the bit being threaded up the mast and then on to the main mast is as before, using another hook and tension adjustment by the tent guide rope method.

Also difference is that the shrouds are connected using a better method than sovereign, fixing the deck is the same as sovereigns, tension on the through deck rope - hummm, that's a challenge. I may have to surgically alter the servo to get it to fit, but there is never any dimensions of the servo and its drum on a drawing, so will have to do a hunt for the info to see if it fits.

I will have to also consider how to fit the battery and the receiver, although that can be attached anywhere inside with the right leads, here is a sketch of a standard servo and its relation to the mizzen deck.
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: warspite on May 10, 2016, 07:50:51 PM
Found something that might work as a tensioner, a pen spring (two required), this type are quite long, about 27mm, full compression is 10mm.
Next is to sketch up the arrangement, I have two ideas, one is just to keep the cord under tension inside a tube, the other is to utilise the test arrangement to provide the pull and double the cord travel, one unit where when one side pulls the other releases, it needs sketching up to give a better idea, its making suitable pulleys to make it work.
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: ballastanksian on May 10, 2016, 07:55:52 PM
I am looking forward to they photos :-))
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: warspite on May 10, 2016, 11:20:56 PM
Not sure if this easy to explain, but the concept is, as the servo arm rotates 90, it passes through three points the start the middle and finish obviously, but the start of one thread is the end of the other thread, so the cyan, yellow and green start at the top and pull down the thread, this can be the port or starboard, whereas the blue, magenta and red also start at the top but the thread is released at the same rate as the other thread and because it loops at the mirror wheel at the bottom, the thread is turned through 180 and follows the same path as the other thread, in all cases, it's a single pull with turning points, with loose wheels as pulleys, the friction could be minimised hopefully, so for the 19mm pull it is estimated to be 38mm travel of the thread, in reality it may be that due to the constrains, the radii of the horn and therefore the pull may be a lot less, but a more accurate detailing of the area, may also require the use of a smaller servo, one test will be to assemble the main mast and main spar and see what the arc is when pulled (I haven't tried this yet - oops).

I also believe that if the turning point is employed at the top and just below, then the whole thing can be turned through 90 rather than a downward action, so the servo can be horizontal (though a standard servo is still very big for the area I have).
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: warspite on May 14, 2016, 06:18:52 PM
I was going to ask a question on the sail boards bulb, but I have decided to just leave it as it is for now and just paint it, which will be when the araldite has cured over next week. the new sovereign bulb consists of a 22mm x 66mm length of copper pipe, with a steel bracket up the middle of the inside, encased in lead, the bracket has been shortened and has a M6 x 100mm coach bolt fitted through the remaining hole in the bracket, it's been encased in araldite. not sure about the thread - whether to encase that in epoxy or araldite to ensure is smooth, ideally the next part would be to create a new stand and therefore I can support sovereign properly with the bulb permanently glued in place, the upshot also is that this experiment didn't really help in deciding what to do for Victory, other than my original intension - so.

Victory has had some very thin strips of plastic card run along the areas where the gun deck will sit, two reasons, a platform to stop the deck falling through when the stability test is done, it also stops the main deck falling through as well and will allow the main deck to just sit on top whilst the mast when inserted into there respective holes, will then sit and be supported as they would otherwise be.

All the masts fit into their holes and I have confirmed that the spar rotates about one of the mast hooks, to quite a large degree to be honest, though there is a slight worrying way it does it, I would say the angle is about 70-75 about the centreline, (140 - 150),  but the spar drops to one side or the other, the top mast will level this off hopefully - even if it does not rotate, being fixed, the large half circle part of the clip struggles to get around the hook, but I will get some photos of this later to illustrate it, I haven't done much as I have been trying to get my head around the servo issue or more to the point the pulley issue, the servo radius is easy to do, its not having the time this week to search out the parts to make reasonably decent pulleys with the bits I have and then test the idea, I don't think the tension is going to be an issue, the amount of 'sail' is miniscule compared to the yachts most on this bit of the forum deal with, the amount of rotating the sails on this will be doing, amounts to no more than say an A4 piece of paper.

Without photo's it's a bit difficult to explain.
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: warspite on May 14, 2016, 07:02:42 PM
So - here is some photo's,

Here is the new sovereign bulb, a weed catcher as the bulb will be forward of the fixing point unless I attach the thread to a bar close to the hull projecting to the front, something else to add weight or I just drill a hole and araldite it in position, that's a possibility.

The Mast and spar the next couple are the mast and spar as it rotates about the hook, as you can see, for the hoop to turn it has to pass through the hook so its movement is restricted, so I would recommend a piece of wire or another hoop fitted vertically as a linkage, and then all three masts.

The hull has these strips fitted, they still need a couple of webs fitting to their undersides to flatten them out and add some rigidity but they should prevent the deck from falling through, and when the time comes to fix the deck it will help in creating a seal underneath.
 
The way I am going to do the test for stability will mean the fitting of the two hulls together, to do this rather than fully gluing them or trying to seal them with tape like I did originally for sovereign, I decided to clamp the edges of the keel with bull clips, then, place a strip of the styrene over the joint to connect the two hulls together, its sacrificial, to separate the hulls, just cut along the centre of the strip on the inside and they will fall apart, this will fully seal the inside from water ingress, hopefully they will be strong enough to stay together without tearing and all the bits end up in the tank, using two pieces of spare sprue, cotton will be tied to the ends and passed under the strip at the front and back, creating a washing line between two points under the boat, from this I will hang the weight to test the stability etc, as the bits will be in their actual locations then the trimming should mean the brass keel insertion will be in the right place, I am thinking of creating a special sailboard where the rudder is incorporated, therefore keeping the large rudder under the vessel and the servo to operate it on the CoG.
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: warspite on May 14, 2016, 07:12:03 PM
No one has mentioned if the pulley arrangement is feasible, any comments would be welcome, in theory it should work, to be honest the servo needs to be reduced in size as its far to big for the space I have, I do have a couple of small servo's but I am unsure if they are man enough to cope, so the test has to include the smaller servo's working up to the standard 2003.
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: ballastanksian on May 14, 2016, 08:41:17 PM
Eek. I wish I could help but without actually building a test piece I cannot think it out.Any help for Warspite would be appreciated I am sure.

I would suggest making simple pulleys out of discs of card or plastic just to proof test some of your ideas and mount them onto a piece of board.
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: warspite on May 15, 2016, 09:06:31 AM
One idea for pulleys was to use the brass ferruls found with servo mounting kits, have them rotate on a suitable screw that's been threaded into the suitable thickness servo horn, the issue here is they are swaged at one end only so may need to solder two end to end, will see what the feasibility of this is later today.

So prepping the new bulb for the sovereign and then coating it with black once cured enough.

Today since the suns out I may have a go at painting the outside of the hull with the M24 yellow, it's growing on me and even if a little bit 'shiney' if not actually gloss, it wont matter, the new cheap spray gun is going to get christened  :embarrassed: :D :D :D
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: plastic on May 15, 2016, 10:43:05 AM
Lots of plastic pulleys here to choose from for no money.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Pulley-combination-package-rubber-belts-rubber-band-plastic-model-accessories-/111872632509?hash=item1a0c20e6bd:g:i6IAAOSwCQNWd9ru
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: warspite on May 15, 2016, 10:59:24 AM
wow, thanks for the link, will have a serious think about that, (not really keen on ebay), may be a serious contention, if i can get my paypal account back up and running. :D 
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: warspite on May 15, 2016, 09:13:24 PM
Well, paypal wont let me in so will look again when I have more time. :D

So - sprayed the hull with Matt 24, first time in 30+ years I have used an air brush, not a bad result, the paint did go a little matt so reasonably happy, sprayed the bulb for sovereign while I was at it, and it will still get its black coat later, then there is the photo's of the inside temporary internal seal, the cotton is for the hanging of the stability weights, I also revisited the main deck and with the black pastel darkened off the deck, to me its a lot better now, then the vessel in the water with the bull clips still attached, even removed she stays vertical, all I have to do now is package up each of the masts and sit the decks in position with as much of the remaining kit in their respective locations, this includes a servo for the rudder and one for the proposed control services. but that will require it to be tested first.
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: warspite on May 15, 2016, 09:15:42 PM
did note that one of the strips of rod had come off, if you look at the left hull, you will see the part having curled up, will replace it later.
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: ballastanksian on May 16, 2016, 06:46:02 PM
Did you fix it before taking the piccies? I cannot see the curled up rod of which you mention. Coming along well.
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: warspite on May 16, 2016, 08:34:21 PM
Top picture, bows towards you with right hull on left and Left hull on right  :}

right hull (left side) - bottom row of guns third port along above its top edge.
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: warspite on May 16, 2016, 08:37:15 PM
I know the detail is a little over the top (and its not finished yet) but it's a way of trying out my skills again, never went this far with other boats and I still have to paint the black yet - oh deep joy
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: warspite on May 21, 2016, 04:05:17 PM
Well the latest update on the sailboard for sovereign, it's been attached for a week, and other than the water level dropping due to normal evaporation, the boats not heeled or done anything than float around the tank, she is quite stable surprisingly ----- and dusty.

Next job will to be work out the infill between the keel and the new bulb for a plastic card piece, I am hoping Victory won't be as heavy and require as deep or heavy bulb as this, still have to support the thin web of plasticard and then put the bits of the internals in place - once I have decided what I am doing for the rudder and the sail control, it all boils down to how much tension it will need on a std servo to pull the cords, I am thinking it wont take much, but the test needs to be done.

Due to some other things going on - this may not get done till next weekend.
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: warspite on August 27, 2016, 05:02:57 PM
Well finally an update - here is the pulleys from amazon - 3.84, had to buy something else but now they are here.

We are doing some 'repairs to the house - may not see them, but they were needed and waiting upon my son coming back from texas is holding up major work until next year.

will need to build a test bed etc and get the ball rolling again, so may be some time before I do another update, the hull has been languishing on top of my computer since I last updated.
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: warspite on September 12, 2016, 10:03:05 PM
Here's a question to the sail community, a sail winch whether it rotates once or twice etc., is it controllable that is to say does it go from one end of travel to the other, or does it stop part way along depending upon where the stick on the TX sits, I also assume the 25mm drum is 25mm od and the groove is 23/22mm, why, well the design previously turned through an angle still only gives 17mm effective travel from end to end - its not the servo/ pulley arrangement that's the limiting factor, its the proposed tensioner (a sketch will be forthcoming soon) due to the size of the spring etc. the over all length is 31mm for a single spring and 47mm for a double spring, this has to translate into 17 or 34mm below deck, leaving very little to turn or above deck before hitting the turn point to the yards.

the concept is ok its the practicalities for making it accessible to repair / remove, the servo is also quite small to fit in the available space, and all I can find is standard sized servo bodies on any winch servo (seems everything is to be big to account for large forces - no requirement for small servos and lite operations).
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: warspite on September 13, 2016, 08:30:57 PM
Well here is the tensioner design, might not come out that well, it basically is a rod with ends that allow a M2 bolt (so larger than shown) constrained inside tubing etc with an effective throw of 17mm or 16mm to be safe.
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: warspite on September 13, 2016, 08:38:21 PM
This how one arrangement works, a straight linkage to pull 17mm using a small servo
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: warspite on September 13, 2016, 08:42:12 PM
and the other arrangement.
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: warspite on September 13, 2016, 08:44:01 PM
As you can see (just) is that they scale of the vessel limits the linkage movement, so a sail winch may be the only way to go so will try and sketch that up.
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: ballastanksian on September 13, 2016, 08:53:10 PM
It makes sense as sailing models mostly seem to use winches. The sketches are a wee bit too small to see with clarity, could you enlrge them by say 30%? Especially as you have gone to the effort to draw and upload the for us:O)
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: warspite on September 13, 2016, 08:58:57 PM
exporting them doesn't lend it self to the software I have, will experiment and try later, it's looking more and more difficult to think of ways to give the idea creedance, I know a standard servo will sit inside the hull - its whats inside the sovereign to operate the swivelling masts, its whether or not a sail winch will fit with the associated drum, and I am unsure if the rotation is proportional to the stick movement or either one end or the other.
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: warspite on September 25, 2016, 11:55:23 AM
Here is another go at the tensioner sketch
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: warspite on September 25, 2016, 11:58:00 AM
Changing the ends to suit a 2mm screw or smaller by creating a flattened end and shaping with a dremel is the idea as bending the bar around pliers would misshape it to much.
Now to get on with reissuing the sketches done before.
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: warspite on September 25, 2016, 12:11:55 PM
Hopefully these are better, the last one is a representation of a standard sail winch.
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: warspite on September 25, 2016, 12:47:46 PM
Its facing the wrong way round to be any use as it means dismantling it to get the thread to fit back on or if it jams, as there is no space to get access then it has to be discounted. 17mm throw on the tensioner is insufficient to account for any slack, even if the ropes are tightened with the tent guide rope idea, as in use the item may slacken off whilst out on the water, then no effect. 
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: ballastanksian on September 25, 2016, 08:42:48 PM
Hm, back to the drawng board.
Title: Square rig control
Post by: JerryTodd on October 01, 2016, 07:19:01 PM
There's several ways to control a square rigger at this scale, the most common is an ordinary servo with the widest arm you can manage to fit.  The braces run up to one of the tops'l yards (not the coarse)  and are attached to the yard the same distance from that center that they are on the arm below.  We refer to this as parallelogram bracing.   The other tops'l yards are typically links to each other so all three move together.  If you have the space, a second servo can operate the fore-tops'l yard separately for better control of the model.

The heads sails can be run from the same arm that controls the foremast yards, using a sliding knot sheet as show in the attachment (I hope there's an attachment).  The sheet runs from the servo through the clew of the jib and back to the servo.  A pair of knot grab that sail and pull it to one side or the other.  You can operate overlapping heads'l this way.

The spanker sheet too, is handled by the main/mizzen servo.  It's fairlead is place at the arm in it's centered position.  This is the sheeted out postion.  Either way the arm moves from centered, it pulls in the sheet.  It'll be inboard of the braces on the arm, most likely as it requires less length to be pulled.
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: warspite on October 02, 2016, 07:38:53 PM
fitting another servo inside is not a problem with space, it's the associated weight, the more inside means a deeper sailboard to counter the effect - even if it is below the perceived water line, no offence - theres a lot of nautical rigging terms that I cannot fathom, and those that I do know would fit on a postage stamp.

I have an idea but I need to find the energy if not resources to do the testing, things are back on hold for now, as I am still looking for another job (I need to get out of the one I am in as its making me depressed  >:-o).
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: warspite on January 08, 2017, 12:33:04 PM
well an update, my loft and the kitchen are my work areas, the former I have been boarding out in 5.5mm ply and insulation, it gives the shed feel and insulates the roof space, any way as its raining I cannot cut the wood to cover a wall I am cladding, so I did a bit on the victory.

This is the sailboard rudder, as its about centre to the hull, forward of the main mast, to assist in turning the vessel, this rudder is being incorporated into the sailboard, in that the flat area between the keel and the bulb is used.

the following photo's are
1. The parts - outer tube, inner tube, and rudder plate (this will be drilled to allow epoxy etc to secure the lighter plasticard rudder).
    Note that the outer tube (about 1/8" dia.) has a cut out about 52mm long extending to about the centre line i.e. leaving about half the tube, the inner tube
    (2.38mm dia.) has a slot cut into it to allow for the rudder plate to be inserted.
2. The inner tube inside the outer tube, the brass tube selected was to be as light as possible as I want the weight to be at the lowest point.
3. The rudder plate fitted to the inner tube.
4. The whole lot assembled.

As you can guess the rudder plate will have to be tinned prior to soldering, and great care taken to ensure that solder does not transfer between the tubes, a bigger diameter tube would probably have been a better idea but this is only a trail and has to keep the weight down.

Next up will be to solder this and before I do that I will need to create the leading edge first, so that this can be soldered on at the same time to reduce the risk of the rudder plate from falling out.
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: warspite on January 08, 2017, 05:01:34 PM
Well, the following is the forward section of the sail board, then the mod to the outer tube after shortening the inner tube, and the whole lot fitted together, just have to design the servo support for both the sail winch and small servo that will turn the rudder, getting these right is important as once the outer tube is cut the inner tube is cut down when the arm is fitted then its all set in stone, I have to remove the inner tube and rudder plate and then cut the outer tube.

before all that, is the all important water test, so some judicial bundling of parts together is required and then setting up the test.
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: ballastanksian on January 08, 2017, 06:16:05 PM
Recently someone mentioned using tippex correction fluid to control where the solder goes, so painting a layer covering the gap between the tubes would help you reduce risk of capilliary soldering where you don't want it.

Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: warspite on January 08, 2017, 08:07:50 PM
but that stuff is a "xxxxx" to get off as well and may be as bad as the solder  {-)
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: dreadnought72 on January 08, 2017, 10:23:55 PM
You've a rudder in the middle of the boat?


That's not going to work.


Andy
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: warspite on January 11, 2017, 10:24:07 PM
That's the plate that holds the rudder plastic, the idea is that it changes the flow under the center, from sailing sovereign she always seemed to spin on centre, the plastic rudder will extend up to half her length - the middle half, its not complete yet and is just an idea.

Any other detractors before I carry on?, I can always rethink it, the idea is to shift the weight i.e. the bulb etc. up front to counteract the weight of the battery in the rear.

this size of boat doesn't sail very fast anyway - not like a footy or a Marblehead, infact, as with sovereign who sailed more backwards putting the rudder up front might have the better advantage, lol.
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: warspite on January 12, 2017, 08:47:26 PM
dreadnought72 - put a spanner in the works  {-) - haven't been able to think about anything all day at work, other than redoing the sailboard, the other problem with moving the rudder to the stern is that it restricts the amount of space for the battery, I was trying to avoid putting it at the rear as it is very tight, and the last time the solution was not very elegant and gets in the way.
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: dreadnought72 on January 12, 2017, 10:59:53 PM

...from sailing sovereign she always seemed to spin on centre...


And there's the answer why it won't work.

Any rudder when deflected port or starboard from its centreline generates lift, a force in a horizontal direction. Most displacement hulls (like your Sovereign) will tend to pivot about a point more-or-less midway along their keel. By putting the rudder at the transom and creating a moment arm, that lift*distance generates a torque, which enables a hull to turn.

What you have there will generate lift, though much nearer the pivot point: resulting in virtually no torque, but plenty of drag.

If space at the stern is really restricted, you might well be better having the rudder at the front.

Andy

Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: JerryTodd on January 13, 2017, 12:55:18 AM
The lift, in that configuration, will also generate heel, which a model that small will already have an abundance of.
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: warspite on January 13, 2017, 09:22:16 PM
Thanks, will relocate the rudder and extend the sail board, longitudinally, but try to remove the weight, the 'triangular bit' will go as close to the front as possible with a small thin flat plate running from the bottom of the triangle to the rudder post.
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: warspite on January 13, 2017, 09:51:18 PM
That makes the rudder new position 100mm forward of the stern - on a 300mm long keel that's a third of the way, so will have to try and push it further back to about  50mm from the stern, as its under the keel it wont be seen easily.
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: warspite on January 15, 2017, 04:17:07 PM
Okay, todays offering,

These are the two boats supplied, I had previously painted the hulls and top frame and rudder - but not the oars, ran out of white enamel (well it had dried out completely in the tin) so had to use the offering from the helicoptors - those pesky little capped tubs with paint a brush and glue kits (which incidently is what this kit is), complete waste of time for the white, runny like milk, but it's got used, will need to buy a fresh tin later and go over the oars again.

Fitted the shrouds on the foremast, first the bottom ones, hopefully how I fitted these I can do to the main mast - the mizzen is a different story. fitted the next part of the foremast and the crows cradle and then fitted the upper shrouds, these shots show the shrouds with their tails threaded through the miniscule holes I had to drill, some breakouts but once the thread is glued in place and cut back it doesn't look to bad, and when painted - .

After painting the bits black (another tin of painted needed - doh), I fitted the yards, and the final photo is it placed on the warped main deck, when the main mast is done it will be supported on the main deck as well, with the relevant bits secured in their relevant areas, so when the test in water is conducted the boat will be weighted approximately so that when the brass front bit is on I will see what extra weight is needed to keep her upright.
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: warspite on January 15, 2017, 04:32:04 PM
Hopefully the shrouds won't get in the way of the yards rotating - too much, forgot to mention that the upper part of the mast and the upper yard are wrapped with the middle yard, if I had fitted it, it would be suceptable to damage.
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: warspite on January 15, 2017, 07:38:42 PM
Well that went well - NOT,  >>:-(

Several hours not for much, but......

The first picture is the boats with the painted oars, forgot to include this last time,

The next is the holes cut into the pulleys for the shrouds tails to be threaded through, sometimes a steady hand and no failing eyesight helps, so sometimes breakouts happen - this is the good one and has one of the heads completely removed , bah humbug  >>:-(

Threading the shroud through the slit didn't go according to plan, so now a major fixing exercise for the next couple of weeks, not just on this, wrapping the upper shroud round a multitool didn't help, that's got major surgery as well.

Then tried making a makeshift pipebender, that didn't go well either, so tried the manual method and they ain't that bad, just hope they are long enough for the job.
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: warspite on January 22, 2017, 08:20:19 PM
Now for a bit of gobbledygook  %),

Well this week offering didn't go as well as expected, tried to repair the damaged shrouds, the main mast bottom ones went reasonably ok, but the upper ones still have some work to be done,

so started some painting, well it didn't go to plan, trying to paint window frames at this scale is neigh impossible, sovereigns was a lot better, but that was a test and it didn't matter as much, but I want this to look good, so I may have to start all over again.

the skylight is in the same predicament, its difficult to paint the frames at this scale, I haven't painted the poop deck walls in the latest 'magnolia' colour, but a oak colour which I feel would have been more realistic, the upper mizzen mast spar is painted, but its sail is not yet attached, the forward detail where the heads are was a pain, again at this scale.

will have to invest in one of those A4 magnifiers to see if that helps, a x10 camera lens is not easy to use effectively.
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: ballastanksian on January 22, 2017, 10:13:07 PM
Shrouds have put me off making sailing ships so I applaud your stoicisim.
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: warspite on January 23, 2017, 08:03:20 PM
Creating them is reasonably easy to do - if you sort of follow the instructions, having to use something to push the underside vertical strands up against the horizontal ratlines is the problem, why, well if you don't, the fixing agent wont stick them together, I thought to repair the upper shroud thinking it might be better in the long run, after seeing the repair I may have to remake them.

 My next concern is the painting of the rear, how to paint it accurately is not working, so maybe I need to start from scratch. Also whilst studying photos, the top of the boats is the same ocre with a black line beneath, need to remedy this - Doh.
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: warspite on January 23, 2017, 08:15:16 PM
oo - forgot to mention, did a wet test - where I sat a Team Magic peak 1200 battery in at the stern, and floated it with the sail servo in situe, she would sit at the waterline most likely with all of the other bits added and weighted to level her off, but looking promising.
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: warspite on January 29, 2017, 07:42:32 PM
Well - this weeks work didn't go as well as planned either - not having a lot of luck lately  >:-o

Bought a helping hands magnifying set up and although it is helpful - its getting use to it, but however I tried to paint the stern it didn't go well so having to try another way. sorry no pictures.
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: Bob K on January 29, 2017, 09:17:08 PM
There are times in a build when things don't quite work out as planned, or progress seems difficult.  I have learned that at times like this do not give up.  Maybe move onto something else for a while, but always come back to look at things from a new angle with a fresh eye.  Been there more than once, got the T shirts, but the satisfaction you will feel when you eventually crack the problems and get her sailing will be all the greater.

You certainly chose a tough challenge.  I for one would love to see photos of the maiden voyage  O0
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: warspite on January 30, 2017, 11:01:56 PM
Soveriegns was a family affair with a reel of fishing wire tied to the bowsprite, and pushed out onto a local country park 'pool', there was no breeze so didn't go anywhere, it was just to see if she would stay afloat and to check the stability with a few deliberate pulls to the port or starboard on the masts.

My failing eyesight is starting to worry me, so I need to complete this reasonably quickly, so this week I am going to have to bite the bullet and push on with getting the painting done.
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: warspite on January 30, 2017, 11:06:57 PM
Here is a shot of her maiden voyage, the square below the hull is the initial counterweight, nearly 200mm (8") below the keel.
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: warspite on February 02, 2017, 09:58:35 PM
Remember image 0145, well here is the two latest versions the first from monday and the last from tonight, started the cheeks and the front trelless, the blue was a pain to paint.
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: warspite on February 02, 2017, 10:01:17 PM
Still have to complete the cheeks and the stern, the motif at the top has to be painted - deepjoy. its painstaking work with a toothpick sharpened to a needle point.
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: warspite on February 04, 2017, 04:11:52 PM
Well this weekends first offering  :D

Not as good as I want it to be - but its good enough at a distance.

also the cheeks have been done and are not so bad after a bit of extra work  %)
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: warspite on February 04, 2017, 04:12:34 PM
I going with the weathered look  %)
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: ballastanksian on February 04, 2017, 09:22:58 PM
I agree that having a coupe of projects on the go is best as then you have sonmething you can do while the other one foxes you for a while.

I know it can be frustrating and tempting to throw it away, but then you have wasted all the time you spent on the project originally. (Naturally, if somethig went really really badly where it has been damaged then maybe a restart is wise, but usually it can be fixed.

Looking good so far though  :-))
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: warspite on February 05, 2017, 01:22:34 PM
My problem is no time, leaving for work at 7 am and not getting back for after 6pm, then all the associated running around doing other things, then at weekend catching up on sleep, and then having a few hours to do something on this, its taking ages. but it will get finished.

The batteries are charged - I think, so now I have to dig out a receiver to try the servo out, also pick up the crest for the micro painting - oh and fit the repaired shroud.

I have a plan to make this look as a feature by attaching a pair of crew as if they are repairing it - now that's worth trying.
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: warspite on February 05, 2017, 07:54:12 PM
apart from eyes being a little strained, still have a couple of crew to build for in the main mast rigging but to name a couple.

here is what I have been doing this afternoon, the first is a little blurry, but the second is a little better and the boats.
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: warspite on February 05, 2017, 07:55:13 PM
oh what fun ---- not :}
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: warspite on February 05, 2017, 08:02:10 PM
I also tried out the sail winch, 1 full rotation to the left and 1 to the right, travel to the end was slow and depending where the stick was put to it went quick for 75% of the time and slow for the remainder, so I now have to work out the pull - 25mm for the diameter x 3.142 = 78.55mm. hhhmm not bad, will have to work out what position on the yard it would be to give a full pull to the left or right.
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: ballastanksian on February 05, 2017, 10:30:28 PM
You'll get there matey.

I like the crest  :-)) Give your eyes a rest.
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: warspite on February 08, 2017, 09:24:27 PM
Okay, the first picture is for the first of three repair crew, he will be trying to grab a vertical line, not painted here, the next is number two, he is shown here in raw form, unpainted here as well, the third picture is of crew man two and three, two is in the rigging as planned and painted, two is holding onto the rope that is being used to pull the shroud in, he doesn't have any arms yet and the rope is wrapped around his waist, he is also unpainted, since this photo, crewman one is fitted and is painted, when I paint number three I will post another picture.
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: warspite on February 08, 2017, 09:58:39 PM
Pull on the winch is more likely 83mm either direction, based on the drawing that I generated to assist in calculating various items, that means it will rotate the mast to 60 either side of centre.

Now the shrouds may have something in restricting this, so I may have to reduce this pull by securing one end to a fixed point and attaching a little white pulley to the end of the yard, so when it pulls 83mm it actually only moves the yard 41mm or thereabouts, so restricting the yards movement if the shrouds get in the way as they are not exactly flexible.
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: warspite on February 11, 2017, 06:01:27 PM
Ok, for today,

First various pictures of the repair crew  {-).
Then the main mast fitted to the deck and with its foremast.

for those old enough - buckaroo, all the bits put together in there approx. places except for the guns as the amount of additional plastic for the crew and gun ports is enough to cover that  O0

Then - wet test pictures,
The first is with the brass that will be in the water temporarily fitted, weight will be added as ballast later.
the next is with the sail winch and rudder servo, no real discerable difference.
then with the proposed battery and receiver - Woah - due to a little bit of miss-positioning of a feature water started to come in so whilst I wait for the glue to set.
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: warspite on February 11, 2017, 06:01:57 PM
and
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: ballastanksian on February 11, 2017, 06:40:02 PM
No leaks I hope?

Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: warspite on February 11, 2017, 06:42:09 PM
big one for such a small hole  O0
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: warspite on February 11, 2017, 06:43:21 PM
as its a test, its not a problem, just painting the gun carriages wheels until the glue dries
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: warspite on February 11, 2017, 08:51:34 PM
Ok, latest

The following is the slow build up of parts to see the effect, I don't have to do buckaroo as I know I would not get all the bits on before it turned turtle, so as you can see the bowsprite helped in levelling out with the battery, but once the decks were on and the mast added, then it got dicey, well the repair crew drowned at one point  {-), the last photo shows the 1200mha battery clamped to the sail board - weighing at 112g, not including the clamps, it was still maybe not enough to bring the bow down, but I am sure that whatever I add will still be above the perceived waterline, I hope.

so next will be to fit the sailboard permanently and the rudder and the control mechanism, will need to build the cradle first to allow it to be worked on, and paint the black parts.
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: warspite on February 12, 2017, 05:13:20 PM
SOOO - after the water test, the hulls been split apart again and now the painting and other things can begin, so as a change I did a bit of crew construction here is how it begins,

1) 6 crew members bodies (formerly the cannons), 2) cut pieces of styrene rod, 5mm and 8mm (in actual fact the lengths never are the same), 3) glue the legs together, some in a different pose than the majority, 4 & 5) attach the 'body' to the legs, 6) leave to set for a while, there is the enevitable one or two that don't want to stay glued, but hey, its a learning curve, 7 & 8) close ups - some I have painted the flesh or black on, some white or all three, 9) gun crew number 1, all pulling the cannon out - now how this is when the ships built will be interesting, but for now as KPNUTS said once, a bit over the top and will be hidden - but I know its there, 10) Gun number 2 with the holes drilled for the crew - note this gun is further back, I am going for the gun practice look, so some will be like this - I do have 16 to do.
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: warspite on February 12, 2017, 05:15:52 PM
More of gun crew number 1, will try and do some better photos when they are painted. And yes gun two is higher off the deck - need to fix that
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: warspite on February 12, 2017, 05:56:48 PM
Why is it when you photo the items it immediately shows up the flaws  :D

its either my eyesight or I'm tired, so will dunk the crew in white and then do the other colours.
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: warspite on February 19, 2017, 05:07:32 PM
Todays offering, there a now 5 gun crews, just another 11 to go, and finding a suitable different pose for each crew is difficult, but at least I don't have to do 100.
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: warspite on February 26, 2017, 08:16:29 PM
Here is todays offering, fitted two crew and 3 cannon since last week, been busy treating the wife to a meal out for her birthday and sorting out a new pc for the youngest (think I got ripped off there  >>:-()
 any way
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: warspite on May 28, 2017, 12:37:07 PM
Well its been a while, but I started back on the lower gun crew and they are now installed - though putting the ladders in from above will be a problem - oh well, here are the photo's of the gun crew - sorry they are a bit blurred.
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: warspite on August 17, 2017, 12:45:29 PM
Finally fitted the hatches over the gun ports, just need to finish painting the chequer.
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: warspite on August 18, 2017, 03:33:50 PM
And painted chequer, not as good as I wanted but hey, its been a while since I did anything on this, I will paint the copper bottom when shes completed, coating it with matt varnish as well to preserve the paint finish, just like Soveriegn.
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: ballastanksian on August 18, 2017, 07:21:57 PM
I love the crew! Lots of action. The hats are clveverly done  :-)) Crews add a lot of work to a project and so I salute you seeing them through.
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: warspite on August 20, 2017, 02:22:33 PM
Thanks, they all probably have their heads holding up the upper deck after trying a slight fitting exercise, but as the are under they might not even get seen, couple of things to do like finish the mod to the sail board and keel, weight saving etc, so some soldering next week.
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: warspite on September 14, 2017, 10:10:41 AM
Got slightly misdirected with work, so no work done yet, though did the new work bench finally, moved the old one and cleared the loft to make more space, just have to tidy the work bench to make things easier to store / find.

One other thing to do is clad the remaining loft to make it more acceptable and tidier, looking to skin the floor with the same ply, as the old loft flooring sheets have been contaminated with dust from the old roof mastic when the roof was replaced a couple of years ago - need to replenish the coffers first.  >:-o
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: warspite on November 17, 2017, 07:59:42 AM
Still trying to fill the coffers, and my shifts don't allow me time to clear the loft.
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: warspite on January 14, 2018, 08:50:59 AM
I know the chit chat topic is locked - so I will add my tuppence worth here - how long is a piece of string - answer 42, then the reply was 40.5, well if you have two mice around, then they are bound to knaw on the end of it, so both answers are correct  {-) {-) {-) {-).

Well still no update to report, shifts are taking up a lot of time, and the temp is too cold to work in the loft, cannot bring it out of the loft as the swmbo has laid down the law on keeping the house clutter free - (she needs to rethink this as the lads rooms are an absolute disgrace, and her side of the bedroom resembles a rubbish tip, lol).

(NOTE - even my texts are not in the youfs language.  %) ;)
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: ballastanksian on January 14, 2018, 05:20:48 PM
(NOTE - even my texts are not in the youfs language.  (http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/Smileys/Tug/rolleyes1.gif) (http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/Smileys/Tug/wink.gif)

That is probably for the best! Not being a subscriber my self, but I have heard from various friends that such a home situation is a key to a less stressful life  :}

Anyhow, I look forward to seeing progress when you have the time and temp to get back to it.
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: warspite on February 03, 2018, 12:43:44 PM
Well, trying to move on a little, the following are the pipes I plan to use to send the cord down into the bowels of the ship, these cords will be connected to the sail winch the other end will attach to the yards on the fore mast, which is in turn to be connected to the main mast and possible the mizzen.

All this is prototyping, the tube have been cut to the same length and the bits on deck that protrude if not flush will be disguised as barrels next to the first of the three guns on the port and starboard sides of the ship, a bracket is needed to hold the bottom to the inside of the hull, it will be out of sturdy plasticard to prevent the tube swinging or dropping, the tube passes through the main gun deck up to the top deck, so slots will be needed to allow it to pass at the edge and then filled in to make the main deck watertight when that is fitted - but that's in the future.

The photos show the tube cut to the shorter of the two tubes, one end exposed and the final shot of the two tubes.
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: warspite on February 03, 2018, 12:45:17 PM
Just need to clean up the inside edges to reduce the risk of the cord being frayed by the metal.
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: warspite on February 04, 2018, 10:58:23 AM
Well - cleaned up the ends, without my magnifier set up its difficult to tell if its how I want it but we will see later, used a counter borer drill bit to chamfer the inside and the dremel to clean up the outside etc.
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: JerryTodd on February 04, 2018, 09:12:46 PM
I put a Phillips bit in a cordless drill and spin it in the end of the tubing which smooths and flares it.  You don't have to push hard, and can controol how much flare you get.  Be careful though, it gets hot.
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: warspite on February 05, 2018, 12:12:26 PM
something similar but the intension is not to splay the end, just chamfer, the tube to small in diameter without trying it on some scrap, to get the heat needed I would think my cordless is not fast enough, the heavy duty drill might do the trick though.
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: ballastanksian on February 05, 2018, 08:23:51 PM
They look pretty smooth to me  :-))
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: warspite on February 06, 2018, 12:10:12 PM
Thanks, if I had splayed the end it may be difficult to retain the length of the short end of the tube, whereas the long end has to fit through the decks and it would be difficult to conceal it as say a barrel.
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: warspite on February 07, 2018, 04:04:23 PM
And today I have completed the first fix of the tubes to the hull sides, second fix will be above the perceived main deck but below the top deck, some of the crew will be pushing the top deck up from a preliminary inspection -oh well.

I have used epoxy to stabilise it, but even that's gone off now, so before the next fix I will have to get some more.

I am also looking at changing the sailboard, so another test will be required, sealing the two halves together again and trying to replicate the conditions again, this time with the sailboard altered and weighted.
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: ballastanksian on February 07, 2018, 10:06:35 PM
I can see how the system will work now. Quite clever  :-))
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: warspite on February 08, 2018, 09:24:14 AM
Once the sail winch is fitted and the deck about to go on (possibly screwed on for access - still have to figure that out yet), will have to feed the thread through these and leave the tails tied together under the hull until everything is fitted, once tested then do the remaining rigging.
 :embarrassed: :-)
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: warspite on November 04, 2018, 07:21:47 PM
So, it's been a long time coming, an update.


The first picture is the modified sail board where a piece was soldered on to widen the board, was not happy with my efforts, so the next couple of photo's show today's update, first mark out some brass, next mark the holes, then drill the holes, cut the slots for the tabs and fold them over, finally fit the new sailboard top to the right hand side of the hull.


On doing all this I noticed that the glue for the tubes for the rigging had gone yellow, so i will have to cover them with some fresh epoxy, stripped back the planned pieces of plastic card that were to hold up the deck, since after dry testing the gun deck, some of the crew were a little high, so will have to fit the deck lower, not a major problem, but i had to cut the slots for where the tubes pass through the deck, so that's why the test and subsequent alteration.
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: warspite on November 05, 2018, 04:23:13 PM
well the hull is together, just have to fill any holes in the keel and glue the bow together, final bit of epoxy filler then to be fitted at the bow. Once that is done fit a plastic card seal over the whole front end to tie it together, then to start fitting the sail winch.


Still have to finish the mizzen mast, so still loads to do, did remove the support for the gun deck as this will allow it to sit further down in the hull to account for the tall crew, have cut and painted a piece of plasticard to cover the lower hatches in the gun deck.


The Sovereign is in the background of the last photo.
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: warspite on January 28, 2019, 10:17:06 AM
Yesterday did a state of where I am at photo's, with the clips removed and a new bottle of plastic weld, I will need to sand back the white paint to fit the bottom thin plastic card keel cover, also will need to remove any paint over the rear transom area to allow it to be installed before the next water test. (Thats if I finish the levelling off of the washing machine, which is dancing under the new kitchen worktop, and fit the kick boards, oh hum)
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: warspite on January 29, 2019, 06:24:26 PM
Well as stated, got the washing machine flat - hopefully, might actual head the opposite direction now, the kick boards are on and started on the covering the joint at the keel, two reasons, its a seal and second it adds strength to the two parts being held together.


The rear part I have to decide whether to make it a two part joint i.e. step up in increments so that a battery can slide down to lower in the boat, the transom is on (fitted before adding the strip down the centre).
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: warspite on January 31, 2019, 10:13:15 AM
This is the sail winch and rudder
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: warspite on February 02, 2019, 08:06:45 PM
Here is the sail winch and rudder servo fitted, the second picture shows stiffeners added at the hull. Moved the Soveriegn forward to compare where the painting needs to be removed for the other parts fitted to the outside, but I need to build and finish the mizzen first, this is so I can perform the balance in a test tank, i.e. with a full upright rigging.


I do hope in this one I can get less weight in the skeg so that she has a shallower draught weed catcher, also need to do a test run with the batteries, don't know how long the various old batteries I have will last from a supposedly full charge, any links to a relevant thread would be appreciated.
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: warspite on February 05, 2019, 06:33:19 PM
Here is question that some one might have the answer for, on her mizzen mast there is a gaff sail that has a beam that protrudes over the stern, sorry for not knowing what it's called, it appears to hang over quite a bit, and I was wondering how it is controlled and why it protrudes so much, I know that a 'stay' sail can be fitted between the main and mizzen that is similar to the gaff on the rear, not sure what effect it would have on a ship this size though.


On Sovereign I just made the boom rotate and the had a piece of cord limit how far it swung from left to right, actually on reflection, will need to do the same on this one.


Also noted how shiny the black is - so will have to tone it back.
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: warspite on February 08, 2019, 05:42:57 PM
Well finally started on the mizzen.


First cut two pieces of tube that closely fit over the new booms - the originals are two flimsy and are warped.
Then bent the tube to suit, with the pieces added.
mixed up some epoxy and attached the booms to the existing mizzen mast.
Finally, wrapped some cotton round it, though may remove this later.


Currently the piece doesn't move as freely as I wanted it to, may have some residue epoxy inside the pieces will free it up later as I progress.


The booms are slightly smaller than the originals and sovereigns as they appeared to be way too long.
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: warspite on February 10, 2019, 07:24:37 PM
Well, went into the loft and did a bit on the mizzen mast.
1st up was fitting the bottom of the ratlines, found the smallest drill I had and drilled out the plastic ends, then laboriously fed each line into it's corresponding pulley, glued it initially, then tied it off, took quite a while for all 8 rat lines.


2nd, fitted the platform, then the rail at the rear.


3rd, did a dry run of fitting the upper mast, It did not fit, either the designer miss calculated the cut out on the upper mast or didn't allow for a cut out in the bottom mast, so had to create my own, it now fits.


Then I fitted the upper platform, all the masts are only finished to the upper platform last item will be to fit the upper masts, but being fragile I am leaving that for now.
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: warspite on February 10, 2019, 07:35:20 PM
Next I thought about the gaff sail, when it will be fitted there is nothing to stop it riding up or down the booms so first of was to tie some cotton onto the ends of each boom end, then epoxy it, the corner ties will be on the outside of these so in theory stop it moving  along the boom, the ones near the mast will be tied both sides to prevent it going either way, I don't intend to epoxy the sail ties to the bom in case I want to replace them, the sail for this gaff (J on the plans) is currently being flattened and has been cut down significantly to fit.


An initial coat of paint has been applied, just some touch ups here and there, touched up the outside of the hull as well.
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: warspite on February 11, 2019, 06:11:07 PM
Well did a bit more painting over the mizzen although with the cold it doesn't appear to be drying, also the matt black is not matt, will have to look at that again.


Internally painted the first coat of white where the hull is original colour, so when a torch is shone in it will help see whats in there, a further coat will help.


So the pictures are of the bottom beam on the mizzen - now with its sail attached, apparently is was always carried furled up.
the next is of another sail, then up against the bowsprit, then it being furled, and finally attached.
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: warspite on February 13, 2019, 05:39:29 PM
And here is my comical offering for today,


I flattened off the black, though will need to tidy it up a bit,


Fitted the first of the ratline pulleys, then wrapped it and fitted the other, then painted it the matt black.


A closer but blurred view,


And finally the upper platform where it is wrapped around and this was also painted, the upper mast will be painted brown eventually.
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: warspite on February 16, 2019, 12:57:27 PM
Did the topsail and mid sail for the mizzen, had to wet them to get them flat, next would be to affix the gaff sail, then bunch it all up, still have to create the rudder, that will be next week.

Then set up for the ballasting test, first weight the boat dry without the servo's in, then fill the inside with water to the perceived waterline whilst it is the water - then weight it - subtract one from the other and see how much ballast needed, then I will need to find out how much and how deep I will need to make the skeg to give a decent balanced hull.
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: warspite on February 21, 2019, 10:05:04 AM
Started to fit the gaff sail, initial connection, will be sewing it it the top and bottom, made a small rig to hold a wet wipe as a filter to an opening of this pc, so going to fit that later, then design the rigs for the other fans I have fitted, two in the side panel and another in the rear of the case, the wet wipe even when dry catches a lot of fluff so its worth doing. As the fans push air into the machine it prevents a mess inside the more air in the cooler it is and also the case is under positive pressure.
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: warspite on February 21, 2019, 11:23:52 AM
Sewn to the booms.
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: warspite on February 22, 2019, 05:48:02 PM
Tried to think of a way to operate the rudder from the proposed location, so it would be better than the previous ship, and could not come up with anything better, so re-positioned it in front of the rudder position, as it is lower than the other it should allow the batteries to slide in better, need to build a tiller to match and be able to remove it when needed.


Provisionally I am looking to increase the rudder size under the hull to give a greater turn since on this one I am not fitting a motor.


The last photo is that frame fitted with the wet wipe filter, when building the one at the back of the case I came to the conclusion, I am C*ap at building in plasticard.
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: warspite on March 08, 2019, 05:17:33 PM
OK, the first picture is of the original sail board, cut down to provide the rudder, the lines scribed on it are for the positions of the holes required to lighten it, the holes will vary in diameter to suit the material edge, each hole will also allow the plastic card plating to stick to each other. the second picture is the original shaft that was to be used, it will be shortened to suit and a coupling added between it and the tiller to allow it to be removed, the tiller will be a brass plate on a tube where the tube is secured in the coupling, once built i will try its operation as I don't know if it will operate correctly.
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: warspite on March 18, 2019, 05:33:31 PM
So here is the next on the list, mojo was hard to start, work beckons in 2 weeks, so need to get a move on. This went from 10 grammes to 7 grammes
Title: Re: Attempt number two for an Airfix Victory at 1:180
Post by: warspite on March 26, 2019, 08:42:02 AM
Well had the occasion to go into the loft and get a drill and bits out to hang an item in the lads bedroom (he could have cleaned it up first - but thats another story), anyway drilled a few more holes and according to the scales it went from 7g to 6g then flashed between them until finally stopping on 5g. Next is to clean up the excess solder on the joint, then solder it to the shaft.