Model Boat Mayhem

Technical, Techniques, Hints, and Tips => The "Black Arts!" ( Electrics & Electronics ) => Topic started by: U-33 on March 20, 2015, 08:01:37 am

Title: Soldering wires...
Post by: U-33 on March 20, 2015, 08:01:37 am
Spot of advice gentlemen, if you please...


I have to solder a couple of fairly heavy (thick) wires together...now, how would you join the wires together? Would you bare the ends back, twist them together, then solder them together? Or would you lay one wire on top of the other one then solder? 


Remember that soldering isn't my strong point... :embarrassed:
Title: Re: Soldering wires...
Post by: malcolmfrary on March 20, 2015, 08:29:05 am
For light wire, clean, tin, twist, solder.  Heavier wire too heavy to twist easily after you've tinned it, clean, tin, lay alongside each other and solder.  Heavier yet, clean, tin, push the ends into a copper sleeve previously tinned up the inside, give it a good crimp then get it all hot enough to melt the solder.
Did I remember to mention cleaning the wire ends before tinning?  Just twisting wires and the applying solder is likely to result in a dry joint with a solder cover.
Title: Re: Soldering wires...
Post by: U-33 on March 20, 2015, 08:34:28 am
Thanks for that...clear and concise information even for me, the Jeremy Clarkson of soldering.


 :-))   
Title: Re: Soldering wires...
Post by: RAAArtyGunner on March 20, 2015, 09:21:16 am

Thank you  :-)) :-)) I would have missed the cleaning bit.
Title: Re: Soldering wires...
Post by: Netleyned on March 20, 2015, 10:05:12 am
Thank you  :-)) :-)) I would have missed the cleaning bit.


In Soldering, Cleanliness is next to Godliness  :-)) :-)) :-))


Ned
Title: Re: Soldering wires...
Post by: U-33 on March 20, 2015, 10:15:29 am
Just had a try, but fingers aren't cooperating today...soldering delayed until tomorrow.  :embarrassed:
Title: Re: Soldering wires...
Post by: plastic on March 20, 2015, 11:15:42 am
Another easy trick for the home solderer is use some single-strand copper wire to bind the 2 larger wires together so they are mechanicaly stabilised before soldering. You get a stronger joint with less chance of a dry joint
Title: Re: Soldering wires...
Post by: RAAArtyGunner on March 20, 2015, 11:24:03 am
For light wire, clean, tin, twist, solder.  Heavier wire too heavy to twist easily after you've tinned it, clean, tin, lay alongside each other and solder.  Heavier yet, clean, tin, push the ends into a copper sleeve previously tinned up the inside, give it a good crimp then get it all hot enough to melt the solder.
Did I remember to mention cleaning the wire ends before tinning?  Just twisting wires and the applying solder is likely to result in a dry joint with a solder cover.

Malcolm,
For cleaning of wire prior to soldering a liquid such as the old spirits of salts y/n.

Looks like I did not pass soldering 101 because I have taken the wire to be clean when stripped of insulation and probably been damned lucky that dry joints have not resulted. Explains why some joints went together smoothly whilst others took a couple of attempts.

 Plastic,
I like the wire winding hint need less hands

You live and learn is true,

Title: Re: Soldering wires...
Post by: sparkey on March 20, 2015, 12:11:38 pm
 :-)) You should NEVER use spirits of salts on electrical soldering will cause all sorts of corrosion problems,good old Fluxite the best flux for this kind of work,binding the two cables together will give mechanical strength and conductivity,Ray :-))   
Title: Re: Soldering wires...
Post by: RAAArtyGunner on March 20, 2015, 10:20:05 pm
Sparkey,

Thank you, found it on web,  :-)) :-)) now to find Aussie supplier, Electricians in OZ go by sparkey, in UK y/n
Title: Re: Soldering wires...
Post by: sparkey on March 21, 2015, 06:28:51 am
 :-)) Sparkey is not only my trade but my surname Sparkes what else could I do for a living,my uncle's name is Parsons and he is a vicar,strange world isn't it,Ray. {-) {-) {-) {-) {-)   
Title: Re: Soldering wires...
Post by: RAAArtyGunner on March 21, 2015, 07:36:45 am
Well that is living up to history as I recall it Masons were called Mason, Blacksmiths were Smiths etc so you are honouring a well founded tradition. O0 O0 :-)) :-))

Aussie chippies also call sparkeys bright sparks {-) {-) {-)

Seriously well done. O0 O0
Title: Re: Soldering wires...
Post by: malcolmfrary on March 21, 2015, 09:12:01 am
Well that is living up to history as I recall it Masons were called Mason, Blacksmiths were Smiths etc so you are honouring a well founded tradition. O0 O0 :-)) :-))

Aussie chippies also call sparkeys bright sparks {-) {-) {-)

Seriously well done. O0 O0


Names and jobs strikes a chord with the late Terry Pratchetts Lancre Morris Men -

Carter, the baker,
Weaver, the thatcher,
Carpenter, the tailor,
Baker, the weaver,
Thatcher, the carter,
Tailor, another weaver,
Tinker, the tinker

New wire freshly stripped can be considered clean, If using wire wrapping, it should be ready tinned or tinned before use.  Wire recovered from a transformer or dead loudspeaker will be enameled, and need a lot of cleaning.  If cleaning is needed, I go for mechanical cleaning (scraping it), and for solder I almost always use cored solder.  Flux is for bigger jobs, like large tags, and never the acid type because that stores trouble for later.  It does need the right iron - the object is to get the solder and both bits of metal in the area of the join as hot as needed for the solder to flow easily.  This implies an iron that a) gets hot enough b) stays that way during the operation c) has a big enough tip area to transfer heat as rapidly as possible into the metal to be joined.   Doing the heating quickly gets the joint hot enough before the heat has a chance to travel up the wires, melting the insulation as it goes.
Title: Re: Soldering wires...
Post by: flashtwo on March 21, 2015, 10:32:52 am
Hi,

Use the flux cored, leaded solder - it flows much better than the lead-free type and doesn't need such a high temperature, and for our "small" jobs its not going to affect the environment. I normally run my temperature controlled iron at 280degC for leaded solder.

I use the Veroboard with gold plated strips, but also clean it with meths (denatured spirit) to remove greasy finger prints. I've never bothered to clean freshly stripped insulated wire, nor small components.

When I'm using the "Verowire" hookup wire the iron is set to 350degC to melt the special insulation, which becomes a flux for soldering.

Most bad joints come from trying to solder at too lower temperature. Have a hot iron (50W temperature controlled) with a good thermal mass, heat up the joint quickly and dab it with solder.

Some larger components with shiny tags, that have mechanically assembled rather than soldered in manufacture, sometimes need scraping clean, since they seem to a very thin layer of possibly lacquer on them.

If you are using wire wrapping, make sure the first couple of turns have the insulation on them, since this removes the mechanical stress on the bare wire.

Ian

Title: Re: Soldering wires...
Post by: RAAArtyGunner on March 21, 2015, 09:46:45 pm

New wire freshly stripped can be considered clean, If using wire wrapping, it should be ready tinned or tinned before use.  Wire recovered from a transformer or dead loudspeaker will be enameled, and need a lot of cleaning.  If cleaning is needed, I go for mechanical cleaning (scraping it), and for solder I almost always use cored solder.  Flux is for bigger jobs, like large tags, and never the acid type because that stores trouble for later.  It does need the right iron - the object is to get the solder and both bits of metal in the area of the join as hot as needed for the solder to flow easily.  This implies an iron that a) gets hot enough b) stays that way during the operation c) has a big enough tip area to transfer heat as rapidly as possible into the metal to be joined.   Doing the heating quickly gets the joint hot enough before the heat has a chance to travel up the wires, melting the insulation as it goes.

My usual problem, so have been going wrong in this area.  I need a bigger iron/tip, the unit is already temperature controlled but has small tip, more suited for printed circuit work.
Title: Re: Soldering wires...
Post by: essex2visuvesi on March 22, 2015, 09:40:11 am
For bigger jobs like soldering bullet connectors on motor wires etc these are a godsend


(http://iw.suntekstore.com/acimages_cache/266/10002697/suntekstore1335520023_image.jpg)
Title: Re: Soldering wires...
Post by: RAAArtyGunner on March 22, 2015, 09:45:04 am
For bigger jobs like soldering bullet connectors on motor wires etc these are a godsend


(http://iw.suntekstore.com/acimages_cache/266/10002697/suntekstore1335520023_image.jpg)

I have one of those, never thought to use it for that, but am learning a lot from this thread
Title: Re: Soldering wires...
Post by: U-33 on March 22, 2015, 10:12:10 am
Same as that...I never knew soldering was such an art. My iron is rated at 40watts, but it doesn't seem to get that hot, so I'm going to treat myself to new one with this months pension.


 My soldering is normally confined to just soldering wires together, but now and then I do need to solder bullet terminals, and on occasions, brass wire to brass rod, etc. Any recommendations for a decent soldering iron, chaps?
Title: Re: Soldering wires...
Post by: grasshopper on March 22, 2015, 01:03:30 pm
Have a rummage round car boot sales for an old tinman's soldering iron, about 75 watts but with a huge tip made of copper, takes about 20 minutes to get to temp but brilliant for soldering cells, big cables, sheet materials etc., as it holds it's temperature well. It means you can work fast and clean without holding the iron on your workpiece too long.

Title: Re: Soldering wires...
Post by: inertia on March 22, 2015, 01:45:09 pm
Here's the Daddy! I bought one of these new about &!! years ago for around three quid. It will solder just about anything except PCB's.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vintage-Industrial-Solon-Electric-Soldering-Iron-Brand-Newin-Box-/271812830246?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item3f494ea426 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vintage-Industrial-Solon-Electric-Soldering-Iron-Brand-Newin-Box-/271812830246?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item3f494ea426)
DM
Title: Re: Soldering wires...
Post by: grasshopper on March 22, 2015, 05:00:14 pm
I have that very same one plus another older one that has a square sectioned end, a Bakelite handle and a cloth covered rubber cable...


Don't make 'em like they used to....
Title: Re: Soldering wires...
Post by: Netleyned on March 22, 2015, 05:09:43 pm
If it ain't got a two pin plug it's a youngster

Ned
Title: Re: Soldering wires...
Post by: essex2visuvesi on March 22, 2015, 09:57:12 pm
Here's the Daddy! I bought one of these new about &!! years ago for around three quid. It will solder just about anything except PCB's.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vintage-Industrial-Solon-Electric-Soldering-Iron-Brand-Newin-Box-/271812830246?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item3f494ea426 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vintage-Industrial-Solon-Electric-Soldering-Iron-Brand-Newin-Box-/271812830246?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item3f494ea426)
DM


I'd pay good money to see you make railings with that bad boy!  ;D
Title: Re: Soldering wires...
Post by: inertia on March 22, 2015, 11:08:03 pm

I'd pay good money to see you make railings with that bad boy!  ;D

Silly boy. Haven't you noticed that I usually qualify my most outrageous statements e.g. "just about anything"? See? I've even qualified this one!
BTW I take it we're not talking 'railings' as in 'park gates' here? Not even the meanest council would send their most stupid employee out to solder those up - or would they............???  :o
DM

(I use a small gas torch with Baker's No 3 Flux and plumber's solder for model boat railings)