Model Boat Mayhem
Technical, Techniques, Hints, and Tips => Painting, Finishing and Care. => Topic started by: Seaspray on April 14, 2015, 03:52:55 pm
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{:-{ Anybody following the Scotia build will see that I am at the painting the hull next. But I've come up against a problem. Having prepared the hull for painting (again) after the last disaster due to cold weather I just can't seem to get a really white top coat on the the hull I've primed it with Halfords white primer and gave it a little smoothing up with 600 paper, primed it again to give full covering again a very little smoothing. Then I spray it with Honda Polar White Halfords. Yet it still looks grayish. So i gave a good rub down to break the sheen on the Polar White and then sprayed it white primer .. and its still gray not white like I had on the Meteor. The wood part of the model. The Gallows / slipway up stern are very white with primer only.
pic 1 the piece of paper is white the hull isn't
pic 2 all the white on hull note the stern gallow area is white.
It is a new can of primer bought 3 weeks ago
Any Ideas are appreciated to get a really nice bright looking white on the hull.
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Because the paint says polar white its important to note that car paint is not pure white!. Its in the name, polar, like arctic or any other number of suffixes to the word white, actually mean its a SHADE of white not pure white.
You can of course just use the primer, which is white and then seal it with your clearcoat, or move away from car paint and use a can of appliance white which is oddly enough white!
The appliance white can be sprayed over your car primer, but car paints cannot be sprayed over the appliance white. This is because the car paints are either cellulose based or acrylic based to mix with each other, they react if sprayed over enamel which is what appliance white is.
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If they still do it Ford Diamond white was always a very bright white. :-))
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Radiojoe
I used Ford Diamond White on the Meteor but it to was a cream colour switch to primer you can see the difference
The whitest white I have come across is Tamiya glass jar x-2 but i don't want to paint brush the hull. There is a Spray but it isn't compatible with acrylics I use
cheers
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It's obviously changed since I had my Ford Zodiac in 1973 which was a very pure Diamond white I guess nothing stays the same. O0
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If you have a local car repair shop close by ask them if the have a pure white paint to the colour you are looking for. They have key cards to match the colour you want. When you get the white you are looking for ask them what manufacture use it and what is is code. Then go get a can from a auto shop. All paint now used on vehicle is a acrylics. They may be helpful after a cop of coffee.!
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too true mate Ah the good old days of Humbrol oil paints and spray varnishes
cheers
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Halfords Appliance White works for me.
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Halfords do an Appliance Gloss White in the same range as their car sprays. I've used it numerous times in conjunction with the other Halfords acrylic aerosol paints - including it being overpainted with a darker colour - and it's fine. It's also about as white as you can get.
DM
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Agree 100% with DM, the Halfords Appliance white is the one to use and is acrylic according to the can. Although labelled as gloss it gives a very nice sheen to a model hull or upperworks. Definitely the one to go for.
Colin
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White paint now there lies an interesting topic lets start at the begining of this topic....
Honda Polar white has a lot of YELLOW in it's constituiton ...........now here is the CLUE O0 O0 O0 O0 O0 O0 O0 O0 O0 O0 O0
Ford Diamond White that is sold by Halfords etc is yet again the YELLOW shade.........I forget now how many shades of this White actually is ................a RIGHT NIGHTMARE to match
One of the best whites to spray on a model is Vauxhall Glazier white......BUT BUT BUT it has a slight tint of Blue in it ....NOT really enough for the naked eye to spot.
Trouble is with a lot of these Aerosols is simply user error....WOAH before anyone goes off on one I will EXPLAIN
You might honestly think that you have shaken the can up well enough BUT as the paint gets lower in the can yuo will get MORE of the individual tracers that make up the paint mix comming through...I would conclude that as the rest of the hull is white and only this section has a yellowed section then I would say 100% that this is the case.Unless of course that Seaspray is saying that the complete hull has a yellow tint then I would say the same reason for it
Dave
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Dave & Colin
I seen this the other day at Hals and thought twice about using it. Should have gone with my gut feeling and went for it. Will try it tomorrow. I got Halfords Plastic Primer instead but didn't use it as bells were ringing not to.
Dave (Stavros) Know what you mean about not shaking the can for 2 minutes and constantly shaking during spraying. Once caught out (many years ago) I don't get now.
I still think there is something coming thru the primer from the hull. So I've rubbed a small part of the area with 400 cleaned it and gave it a quick coat of Chestnut Acrylic Lacquer. Will use white primer later tonite check it tomorrow and decided which way to go
%%
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I take your points Dave but the fact is that in conventional automotive whites there are a number of variations in shades between manufacturers. The latest car whites have mica flakes in them which are reflective and when you compare a car painted with these with one with a conventional white then there is just no comparison. The mica white positively 'glows' which I am sure you are already well aware of. It's 'white metallic' really.
The Halfords Appliance White is an excellent choice for white areas on model boats as Dave Milbourn suggests and a no brainer for most modellers in my view.
Colin
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Nothing was ever mentioned about various shade differences between vehicle Manufacterers let alone Mica Particles as this doesnt apply to the original posters problem,but as usual you are allways right in your own opinion
Dave
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Don't be prejudiced Dave. It isn't relevant. I am not trying to impose my views, just trying to be helpful! As should we all.
If you visit Halfords then there are a lot of different shades of white from various manufacturers, some are 'plain' others 'mica' or 'metallic'. We are spoilt for choice really.
Most people who make model boats want a 'pure' white and, as Dave Milbourn has pointed out, 'Appliance White' which is the white applied to 'white goods' such as refrigerators fits the bill very nicely. The Halfords version has a nice semi gloss sheen when applied to model boats which should suit most people's requirements. Like Dave Milbourn I have always found it to be just what I wanted.
So what's not to like?
Colin
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Err didn't I mention appliance white way back at the top of the topic, nice to know so many agree with me! But I've always had better results with using white primer with a clearcoat over it.
The reason is that if you are clearcoating the paint then the gloss of the appliance white needs flatting back to provide a key, so you may have just used the primer anyway. Of course if you are just leaving the paint as is, there is no need for clearcoat or flatting back.
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I have found that my use of Halfords Appliance White has given a mid sheen on the model rather than gloss so happy with that.
Colin
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I used Halfords appliance white on my ferry. gives a very nice finish . I used this white primer . One thing I found the primer would seam to have less pigment in the appliance white as it is a primer .
john
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The Halfords red primer and grey primer give a very good finish if sealed with a topcoat varnish but the white primer does really need a proper topcoat such as appliance white.
My earlier comments this appear to have been moderated! Never mind!
Colin
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I think you will find the Scotia has a blue topsides
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Thanks to all problem solved. I rubbed back the primer and there was a lot on and used Halfords Appliance gloss white and it has worked a treat. If I am stuck in the future by not getting pure white with primer I'll use appliance white.
I also had a little problem with the red primer on the bottom of the hull. It left a rough finish like a matchbox side where you strike the matches which I thought was great, till I tried to clean the hull with a wipe. It ripped the wipe to shreds. So after rubbing that down smooth it has got a respray. Moral don't use 3 year old primer.
Thanks all again. Now the blue currently have 6 various cans of different shades of blue hopefully the last can bought is near the shade I want. I think a lot of the colour tape on the can top is not a true shade of what is in the can. I also discovered Halfords mix up colours for you from a chart but was told it was for motorbikes, after I had bought it
Cheers
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Adding absolutely nothing to the debate but but my favourite "white" white is Halfords appliance white, however colour is a very subjective matter and one mans white is another mans blue/white.
Think back (those that can) to OMO in the 60's it gave housewives, as married women were called in those days "Brilliant whites" in their washing. Yes it did, with that dazling hint of blue!. Five years later, they made things last in those days, the whites had all turned light blue like my school shirts.
As I said doesn't contribute much to the thread but the suns shining and I'm off to spray some white paint!.
Paul.
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Just to stir the paint pot a little, some Norwegian offshore vessels used to (still do?) have particularly bright white upperworks. I was told by one skipper that this appearance was given by just the tiniest hint of blue in the white. Thus, a pure white model might not always be correct.......
Barry M
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So in line with the sales pitch of Professor "OMO" they should turn blue in a few years.
I'm off...............
Paul.
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Ill let you into a little SECRET....appliance white has a lot of BLUE tinter in it........there is a shade of Ford Diamond white like this Ho Hum !
Dave
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Another question has come up.
Do you have to use Tamiya brand acrylic thinners with Tamiya acrylic paints ? It so expensive for so little.
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Any type of acrylic thinners should do the trick.....arnt a lot of the acrylic tamya paints water based?
Dave
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it's just isopropanol alchohol. get it cheap as chips from resin suppliers.
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Any type of acrylic thinners should do the trick.....arnt a lot of the acrylic tamya paints water based?
Dave
Apparently so but if you try to clean you brushes in water after using them it takes an age. Much quicker with either Tamiya or ultimate airbrush thinner.
I tend to use Tamiya thinner, tho for airbrushing ultimate airbrush thinner is better value for money as it's cheaper and you need less to get the same consistency.
http://www.umpretail.com/products/ultimate-airbrush-thinner (http://www.umpretail.com/products/ultimate-airbrush-thinner)
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I have used both, isopropanol and Tamiya thinner and really can't tell the difference. There is some on Amazon at the moment 1/2ltr for around £6 inc p&p but probably cheaper by litre or gallon. I clean down with panel wipe(fast dry) at about £8 a gallon so these types of chemicals need not cost the earth.
Paul.
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Cheers lads.. it says to clean with water on the little bottle but it feels like the brushes are greasy even when dry.
When i said to the model shop owner about washing them in water he said you won't get them really clean. Think he is right.I don't mind using acrylic thinners just looking for more thinners for less money than Tamiya
Might switch to Humbrol acrylic paints probably they're the same.
Me thinks next model will be airbrushed with Humbrol oil based paints
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I've never had much success spraying enamels with an airbrush and the cleanup takes an age.
Might just be me tho lol
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When I used to do armoured vehicles I was taught and used meth spirits with Tamiya acrylics
Worked a treat :-))
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Essex.. I've never sprayed enamels but i think it has been done. Just not a fan of acrylics
Gingyer.. Got plenty Meths here try it tomorrow.
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How did you get on??
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Gingyer
Haven't tried it yet as I had finish the hull on the inside with Tamiya white (5 coats over a rattle can primer to get coverage) before your reply had come up. Will have a trial today on a spare piece of wood
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Update
Meths done a good job of cleaning the brush I was using. Just a little run under the tap to remove the meths. I mixed a little Tamiya white with meths 50/50 and using a brush was o.k but this is the mixture Gingyer uses on the airbrush, so will I when I get one. i use to have to finally clean my brushes with soapy water after using Tamiya thinners as they felt greasy but the meth works a treat. Cheers Gingyer
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Glad it was of use :-))