Model Boat Mayhem

The Shipyard ( Dry Dock ): Builds & Questions => Yachts and Sail => Topic started by: U-33 on August 10, 2015, 08:25:04 am

Title: HFM 590 yacht
Post by: U-33 on August 10, 2015, 08:25:04 am
I've just bought a brand new HFM 590 yacht kit off of eBay, and I recall that some back that the builders of these little boats would replace all the rigging lines with different materials...my question is, what do I replace them with?


Any help would be much appreciated.



Title: Re: HFM 590 yacht
Post by: Netleyned on August 10, 2015, 09:09:22 am
Mornin Rich
I use Spectra Braided Fishing line
50LB Breaking strain.
Should be plenty strong enough.
I always put a dab of nail polish on the knots
Superglue tends to wick along the braid stiffening it.


Ned
Title: Re: HFM 590 yacht
Post by: rickles23 on August 10, 2015, 09:15:17 am
Hi,

The latest rigging line is called Spectra.

It is a lot thinner than the usual rigging line and is far stronger.

The same type of line is used a lot in rod fishing.

A word of warning: Use the new model of the bowsies and do not attempt to snap the line with your bare hands otherwise it will leave bad cuts.

Regards
Title: Re: HFM 590 yacht
Post by: U-33 on August 10, 2015, 09:17:32 am
Morning Ned...


Is that what you use on all the lines, mate? Both the lines that support the mast and the sail lines?




Morning Rickles,


Thanks for your advice as well...I didn't know there were any new style bowsies? Where would I get those from?
Title: Re: HFM 590 yacht
Post by: rickles23 on August 10, 2015, 09:26:46 am
Hi U-33,

I live in Australia and get most of my spares from this website:

https://www.radioyachtsuppliesaustralia.com/index.php

The new bowsies are a lot easier to adjust when the fingers are wet or cold.

Regards
Title: Re: HFM 590 yacht
Post by: U-33 on August 10, 2015, 09:31:35 am
That's terrific, I'll go googling and see if I can locate them in the UK...thanks Rickles, much appreciated.
Title: Re: HFM 590 yacht
Post by: tigertiger on August 10, 2015, 09:35:34 am
If you can't track down spectra, an alternative is Dacron line, from Sailsetc.com and others. 25kg should be more than enough.
I use it for both running rigging and fixed rigging. I have also used wooden homemade bowsies with Dacron, not sure how that would work with Spectra.
Title: Re: HFM 590 yacht
Post by: U-33 on August 10, 2015, 09:40:57 am
Thanks TT...I have a fishing tackle shop not far from me, so I'll pop in and have a look later today.


Thanks for the help...as always, much appreciated.
Title: Re: HFM 590 yacht
Post by: Netleyned on August 10, 2015, 09:41:36 am
Rich,
Measure the supplied lengths of standing and running rigging lines
and let me know.
I have a 100 metre reel here and you are welcome to what you need.
Like Tiger Tiger I use the same for running and standing lines.
I've mislaid your address so PM me with the details of what you need.


Ned
Title: Re: HFM 590 yacht
Post by: U-33 on August 10, 2015, 09:43:25 am
Ned, you are a true star, sir...the kit should be here tomorrow (with a bit of luck) so I'll measure what's what and get back to you. Thanks mate...
Title: Re: HFM 590 yacht
Post by: tigertiger on August 10, 2015, 10:47:48 am
When measuring remember to add about 10cm  (5cm for each end) to every length for knotting.


If your tackle shop does not have Spectra, the key thing to remember is that the line used should have no stretch, and not shorten when wet.
Title: Re: HFM 590 yacht
Post by: U-33 on August 10, 2015, 11:14:06 am
When measuring remember to add about 10cm  (5cm for each end) to every length for knotting.


If your tackle shop does not have Spectra, the key thing to remember is that the line used should have no stretch, and not shorten when wet.


TT...that's damn good thinking, I wouldn't have thought of allowing extra for knots, etc.

Are there any other modifications I should be considering before I commence building? I'm not going to be racing the thing, so I have no class rules/regulations to worry about, it's just going to be a fun boat to enable me to pop down the lake for the odd hour's sailing whenever the fancy takes me.


I have bought these http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/400667425440 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/400667425440) from eBay as I remember reading of yacht builders using them

Title: Re: HFM 590 yacht
Post by: tigertiger on August 10, 2015, 12:04:37 pm
As they are for sea fishing, they should be plenty strong enough for standing rigging.
If they are for the ends of running rigging, just make sure that the clip at the end can fully close to stop whatever it holds from hopping off. A tweak with pliers will fix those that don't.
Title: Re: HFM 590 yacht
Post by: U-33 on August 10, 2015, 12:06:04 pm
Thanks TT...much appreciated.
Title: Re: HFM 590 yacht
Post by: rickles23 on August 11, 2015, 03:36:23 pm
Hi,

I am not sure what size your yacht is but I use Spectra on a 50 inch racing Marblehead.

No snapped lines at all.

It comes in a couple of colours so I have a yellow for all the essential rigging and green for the rest.

Regards
Title: Re: HFM 590 yacht
Post by: Netleyned on August 11, 2015, 03:49:21 pm
Less than half a Marble head at 590mm
Almost 2feet in old money.
Rich, fraid my dyneema is green so no two tone
rigging for you.
It's 50lb breaking strain so no probe on a little un.

Ned
Title: Re: HFM 590 yacht
Post by: U-33 on August 11, 2015, 05:05:25 pm
Colour is totally immaterial, Ned..I don't mind what colour it is. Green....hmm, doesn't match my eyes though.  ;D
Title: Re: HFM 590 yacht
Post by: unbuiltnautilus on August 11, 2015, 06:23:46 pm
Nice Yacht, you will be well chuffed with it. They sail well and look good to boot. Don't, however, drop it on the road and break the keel bulb off on a glorious July morning, on the way to the pond..cos then its stuffed! So in answer to your 'what upgrades' question..I would extend the steel re-enforcing wire into the keel weight before sandwiching the two keel bulbs together, wont ruin your sailing then :-))
Title: Re: HFM 590 yacht
Post by: U-33 on August 11, 2015, 07:28:25 pm
Thanks for that, Skip...I'll do that.


I take it that you tried dropping a 590, then? You are a silly boy...what are you?
Title: Re: HFM 590 yacht
Post by: U-33 on August 11, 2015, 08:33:24 pm
The gooseneck (technical term) on these yachts is just a piece of tube, a bent piece of wire, and some thread to tie it all together...is there a modification, does anyone know?
Title: Re: HFM 590 yacht
Post by: tigertiger on August 12, 2015, 01:34:55 am
I can't quite picture this. When you say 'some thread to tie it all together', do you mean a line that pulls the boom towards the mast. That is from about 1/3 the way out along the boom and attached to the mast below the gooseneck (the gimble like affair that attaches the boom to the mast)?


Can you post a photo?
Title: Re: HFM 590 yacht
Post by: rickles23 on August 12, 2015, 04:43:33 am
Hi,

Attached are two diagrams.

As Tigertiger states please post a photo and we can help from there.

The first photo is a gooseneck, the bit that holds the boom to the mast.

The fitting below the boom is the kicking strap, although this is a metal version it can be done with rigging cord.

As with full size yachts it depends how much money you are prepared to invest.

Regards
Title: Re: HFM 590 yacht
Post by: U-33 on August 12, 2015, 07:49:58 am
Scanned copy of the gooseneck...very basic?
Title: Re: HFM 590 yacht
Post by: unbuiltnautilus on August 12, 2015, 09:12:07 am
Thanks for that, Skip...I'll do that.


I take it that you tried dropping a 590, then? You are a silly boy...what are you?

I was exploring all parameters of operation of the model %)
Title: Re: HFM 590 yacht
Post by: rickles23 on August 12, 2015, 09:14:44 am
Hi all,

A gooseneck can be made in many different ways.

Two more pictures for you.

1/ Made of solid brass for a 1950 style restoration Marblehead

2/ An early home made type

Regards
Title: Re: HFM 590 yacht
Post by: U-33 on August 12, 2015, 09:34:54 am
A couple of ideas there...I sense a little job for someone coming up (Andy...tattooed  %) )
Title: Re: HFM 590 yacht
Post by: tigertiger on August 12, 2015, 11:36:54 am
Looking at the figure given in the instruction book.


It is basic but will work, no problem. Remember simple is often best. It is also worth remembering that sail boats generally have a balanced design to give good performance. Once you start shifting things about you could be making the boat sub optimal. Below I explain what I mean by shifting things about.


From the diagram you are looking at having the gooseneck 19mm off the base of the mast, I am also assuming this would be the deck.
This leaves no room for an additional kicking strap.


If you make space for a kicking strap (non essential) then there will be two knock on effects.
Firstly the gap between the deck and the foot of the sail will be increased, quiet a lot proportionally, and this will have a negative effect on sailing ability. The smaller the gap the better.
Secondly, you may need to recut the sail, cutting off the foot. Or lengthen the mast. The former would give you a smaller sail area and shift the centre of effort forwards, she would not sail so well. The latter would put more weight up high, and the centre of effort of the sail would also be higher. This would affect how far she tips over in the wind. This in turn means you cannot sail in as strong a wind as before.


We are only talking about 2cm, but on a smaller vessel 2cm may not be negligible. As you said, you won't be racing. So why spend additional money on custom parts? Keep the cash for beer.
Title: Re: HFM 590 yacht
Post by: tigertiger on August 12, 2015, 11:42:39 am
Addendum.


Something I have said to people before. If you are new to sailing, get your first boat on the water asap and enjoy.
You will also be using a boat that is set up right to learn how to sail nicely, and set and balance your rig. Its not rocket science but it takes a bit of practice to do it elegantly. With a standard boat you know where any shortcoming are (probably the skill of the skipper) and not have to worry about problems with the boat.
Tinker with your next boat.
Title: Re: HFM 590 yacht
Post by: U-33 on August 12, 2015, 11:47:05 am
Thanks for that, TT...makes sense, even to a yacht virgin like me.


I'll leave things as they are, then....much appreciated...thanks again.


And thanks for the addendum...just wish the perishin' thing would hurry up and get here. It's only coming from Fareham ... :embarrassed:  ...I could have driven down there and collected it in a couple of hours.



Title: Re: HFM 590 yacht
Post by: U-33 on August 12, 2015, 02:18:28 pm
The 590 has just arrived....now to open the box.
Title: Re: HFM 590 yacht
Post by: rickles23 on August 12, 2015, 03:54:40 pm
Hi,

Our work here is done.

If you can find a copy of Vic Smeed's book Model Yachting it will explain everything.

My copy is many years old now but I still refer to it now and then.

Regards
Title: Re: HFM 590 yacht
Post by: U-33 on August 12, 2015, 08:37:18 pm
When I opened the box earlier, there was a copy of "Radio Control Model Yachts"  by Trevor Reece tucked inside it, looks an interesting read.


Tomorrow I'll open the box properly and take some photos of the kit.


Thanks for the help, guys...
Title: Re: HFM 590 yacht
Post by: U-33 on August 12, 2015, 10:27:10 pm
Couldn't resist opening the box and taking a quick peek...the hull looks to be a very nice moulding. Not bad for a 30 year kit...
Title: Re: HFM 590 yacht
Post by: rickles23 on August 13, 2015, 09:32:34 am
Hi U-33,

That is looking very good, if the rest of the parts are as good you are on the start of a good looking yacht.

From memory the Trevor Reece book is around 20 years old. It should be the same as Vic Smeeds.

More photos please.

Regards
Title: Re: HFM 590 yacht
Post by: U-33 on August 13, 2015, 10:19:41 am
More photos as requested, Mr Rickles...


There's even two tubes of adhesive included in the kit, plus a craft knife as well.


Last photo shows the all important registration number..
Title: Re: HFM 590 yacht
Post by: rickles23 on August 13, 2015, 10:23:37 am
Hi,

Well that is a good start.

Very good condition.

Regards
Title: Re: HFM 590 yacht
Post by: U-33 on August 13, 2015, 10:29:33 am
It is in 99% perfect condition, according to the lady from whom I bought it from, it was purchased brand new by a family member, put in the garden shed, and there it remained until a few days ago when the shed was sorted out. None of the bags had even been opened, they were all attached to the box as they would have been when it was packed ready to ship, around thirty years ago.


I consider it a bargain...33.
Title: Re: HFM 590 yacht
Post by: rickles23 on August 13, 2015, 04:03:23 pm
Hi,

So that is roughly $70Australian.

That is a REAL bargain.

Regards
Title: Re: HFM 590 yacht
Post by: U-33 on August 13, 2015, 04:17:10 pm
I thought so...  :o


Made a start on the building today...hull and deck trimmed, and fit perfectly, just a little final sanding to do to tidy up the edges.
Title: Re: HFM 590 yacht
Post by: U-33 on August 14, 2015, 09:16:27 am
A little more done last night...rudder cut out and assembled, and the internal rudder support cut out.
Title: Re: HFM 590 yacht
Post by: Martin [Admin] on August 14, 2015, 10:19:14 am
 
Looking good, strong stand!!   :-))

1. How thick is the plastic?
2. What glue you using?
3. Does it come with the keel bulb weight?
Title: Re: HFM 590 yacht
Post by: U-33 on August 14, 2015, 10:26:15 am
Would I be ok to replace the supplied moulded styrene centre hatch cover with a clear 3mm hatch, bolted down the same as a submarine hatch? Bolts up through from underneath, rubber gasket and securing nuts on top?


I'd like to be able see what's going on inside the hull, just in case of water ingress or something falling off somewhere...


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Martin..the styrene is of variable thickness, depends on where it is...but a minimum of 2mm it seems.
Glue...I always use Revell Contacta Professional for styrene to styrene joints, sometimes with a fillet of Devcon epoxy for extra strength if needed.
And yes, the keel bulb weight is supplied with the kit.
Title: Re: HFM 590 yacht
Post by: U-33 on August 14, 2015, 12:40:33 pm
Something like this...


Fear not, it's only a temporary hatch...  ;D
Title: Re: HFM 590 yacht
Post by: U-33 on August 14, 2015, 03:53:05 pm
Cancel that post above, changed my mind...I'm going to use the 3 kit hatches, but the middle one I'm going to insert a recessed clear panel into the hatch itself. I'll look much better, I think...


Hatches now all opened up..
Title: Re: HFM 590 yacht
Post by: unbuiltnautilus on August 14, 2015, 04:21:14 pm
Trust in Harveys stuff, always worked for me.
Title: Re: HFM 590 yacht
Post by: U-33 on August 14, 2015, 04:33:54 pm
Harvey's...can't drink the stuff, it's horrible. Oh...you mean Harvey Middleton? Yep, I'd agree with that...I've had a 575, a Thames Barge, a Deep Dive, and now the 590, they all seem to work straight out of the box.
Title: Re: HFM 590 yacht
Post by: unbuiltnautilus on August 14, 2015, 04:56:27 pm
Harvey's...can't drink the stuff, it's horrible. Oh...you mean Harvey Middleton? Yep, I'd agree with that...I've had a 575, a Thames Barge, a Deep Dive, and now the 590, they all seem to work straight out of the box.

590S, Deep Dive, Lightning, Thunderboat, 12M Yacht, Type 23 Frigate...When models WERE models and you had to use glue....not Royal Mail to send its smoking husk back to the nearest importer of tat!

I have turned into a moaning old git...is there any room left on this forum for 'just one more'?
Title: Re: HFM 590 yacht
Post by: U-33 on August 14, 2015, 05:24:34 pm
Join the club, skip...I'm Chairman of the MOGS. (Miserable Old Gits Society)  %)
Title: Re: HFM 590 yacht
Post by: U-33 on August 15, 2015, 02:06:30 pm
Top picture is for Martin...the supplied keel weight in the keel.


Second picture shows the started radio installation...rudder post bonded in position, rudder servo installed, and sail winch servo arm made. Instead of the tiny hooks supplied, I made two loops out of 1/16th brass wire, superglued them to the arm, fixed them into position with shirring elastic, then coated the whole lot with superglue.
Title: Re: HFM 590 yacht
Post by: rickles23 on August 15, 2015, 03:54:30 pm
Hi,


The white rudder support.


Is there a prvision to grease the rudder shaft?


Regards
Title: Re: HFM 590 yacht
Post by: U-33 on August 15, 2015, 04:07:28 pm
Good point...no, there isn't. The only way to do that is undo the grub screw, drop the rudder out and grease, then reassemble. I'll come up with something....
Title: Re: HFM 590 yacht
Post by: rickles23 on August 15, 2015, 04:12:11 pm
Hi,


Best to sort it out now as it would be very tricky when the yacht is built.


Been there...done that!


Regards
Title: Re: HFM 590 yacht
Post by: U-33 on August 15, 2015, 04:16:10 pm
Good thinking, Mr Rickles sir...the rudder support is hollow, so the easy way would be to drill into it, add a short length of brass tube with a length of (capped) silicone tube attached to it, and drip warmed grease through the tube.
Title: Re: HFM 590 yacht
Post by: Martin [Admin] on August 15, 2015, 05:30:07 pm
 
What sail servo?
Title: Re: HFM 590 yacht
Post by: U-33 on August 15, 2015, 05:31:10 pm
Futaba S003 servo with the kit sail arm attached, Martin, same as the rudder one.
Title: Re: HFM 590 yacht
Post by: Netleyned on August 15, 2015, 06:17:00 pm
How long is your piece of string Rich?
If you think the cord supplied is ok  then use it,
If it is synthetic and has not been subject to
UV light it should be ok.
If not, the offer of dyneema is still there.
Just measure what was supplied and I will send
it plus a bit extra.
PM me your address and length {-) and I'll drop
it in the mail.

Ned
Title: Re: HFM 590 yacht
Post by: U-33 on August 16, 2015, 11:29:58 am
I haven't got round to measuring the thread lengths yet, Ned...haven't even unpacked the rigging thread yet.


Been cutting out hatches and making some clear covers out of old cd cases.
Title: Re: HFM 590 yacht
Post by: Stavros on August 16, 2015, 11:43:12 pm
Rich I have never heard of a Yacht that has a greasing point on the rudder...mine was last greased up 4 yrs ago and it still doesn't leak,so top tip don't create a rod for your back or even if it ain't broke don't try and fix it and reinvent the wheel


Dave
Title: Re: HFM 590 yacht
Post by: U-33 on August 17, 2015, 09:31:48 am
Good point Dave...thanks.
Title: Re: HFM 590 yacht
Post by: Martin [Admin] on August 17, 2015, 09:40:48 am
 
Worse case, you can pull the whole rudder out, re-grease and reassemble - you can get to both ends.
Title: Re: HFM 590 yacht
Post by: U-33 on August 17, 2015, 09:42:29 am
True, Martin...it only takes a minute to undo a couple of grub screws, drop the rudder out, grease and reassemble.