Model Boat Mayhem - Forum

Mess Deck: General Section => Chit-Chat => Topic started by: Jerry Hill on September 14, 2015, 12:46:43 PM

Title: 'She' or 'It'
Post by: Jerry Hill on September 14, 2015, 12:46:43 PM
I can not fit into the tradition of calling boats 'she'. It's an inanimate machine , end of. Discuss :}
Title: Re: 'She' or 'It'
Post by: Arrow5 on September 14, 2015, 12:55:14 PM
You could go German , mostly masculine but then....if there is an "ach" in the month it could be die das or der :o
Title: Re: 'She' or 'It'
Post by: TomHugill on September 14, 2015, 01:34:57 PM
I can not fit into the tradition of calling boats 'she'. It's an inanimate machine , end of. Discuss :}

No discussion needed, boats are she, end of.
Title: Re: 'She' or 'It'
Post by: Capt Podge on September 14, 2015, 01:39:05 PM
Apart from any other considerations, it's traditional.
 
So is FATHER TIME and MOTHER NATURE <*<
 
....and it's not "End of" if its open to discussion :-X
 
 
Regards,
 
Ray.
 
Title: Re: 'She' or 'It'
Post by: Jerry Hill on September 14, 2015, 01:52:56 PM
Apart from any other considerations, it's traditional.
 
So is FATHER TIME and MOTHER NATURE <*<
 
....and it's not "End of" if its open to discussion :-X
 
 
Regards,
 
Ray.

End of for me as I won't be swayed, but I would like to understand what's behind it. Tradition based on what? There used to be a time where females on ships were deemed to be bad luck, then we suggest it's a female by nature. I don't get it.
Title: Re: 'She' or 'It'
Post by: GAZOU on September 14, 2015, 02:07:59 PM
 %)

This subject with fact of very numerous pages on a French forum in .......
We are always in the same point there: it or it

That is a question
Title: Re: 'She' or 'It'
Post by: dreadnought72 on September 14, 2015, 02:33:43 PM
All three!

During building: "It" - "Have you tested its radio yet?"

When sailing: "She" - "She looks lovely on the loch!"

When things go wrong: "Thing" - "The thing broke down after listing badly, then caught fire and sunk."

Andy
Title: Re: 'She' or 'It'
Post by: Bob K on September 14, 2015, 02:38:19 PM
If only ships really were inanimate objects the question would never arise.  In practice they rarely ever are, each with their own quirks and idiosyncrasies, often with a predilection for doing unpredictable things at the least opportune moment. Almost as if they had their own personalities that need pandering to or allowing for whilst coaxing or cursing in the manner of appeasing some ancient goddess to elicit a favourable response.  This unfathomable 'personality' has been more often associated with a female character that needs to be wooed amid the stormy uncertainties of a wild seaway.

Even model boats can sometimes exhibit illogical quirks beyond that of simple inanimate objects.
Title: Re: 'She' or 'It'
Post by: mook on September 14, 2015, 03:37:07 PM
Whether an inanimate object can be called a he or she depends on what it is

Ships.          She
Car.              He
Plane.            He
Motorbike.    She
Steam train.  She

I tend to designate anything with an engine as he or she but that could just be a woman thing or is it just me  {:-{
Title: Re: 'She' or 'It'
Post by: Colin Bishop on September 14, 2015, 04:45:00 PM
What's Windows 10 then?  :o
Title: Re: 'She' or 'It'
Post by: boatmadman on September 14, 2015, 05:03:37 PM
The offspring of "she" and "it"
Title: Re: 'She' or 'It'
Post by: Netleyned on September 14, 2015, 05:05:36 PM
The offspring of "she" and "it"


 {-) {-) {-) {-)

Ned
Title: Re: 'She' or 'It'
Post by: Colin Bishop on September 14, 2015, 05:29:14 PM
Very good!
Title: Re: 'She' or 'It'
Post by: warspite on September 14, 2015, 06:52:39 PM
so an Iraqi tribe then  :}
Title: Re: 'She' or 'It'
Post by: mickyrubble on September 14, 2015, 06:58:48 PM
Some times when im building a boat i have a great need to question its parentage.
 >>:-( <*< <:( >:-o >>:-( <*<
Title: Re: 'She' or 'It'
Post by: ballastanksian on September 14, 2015, 08:42:07 PM
I heard that changing a ship's name was bad luck, but the Royal navy changed ships names often when relegating the vessel to another duty such as a training ship or an accomodation ship, and they usually survive.

I was told that military vehicles are called 'He'

Title: Re: 'She' or 'It'
Post by: Jerry Hill on September 14, 2015, 10:43:59 PM
 :-)

Keeping it light please know I've no problem what people call their craft, as such I guess a sea plane is in some folks eyes a bloke in a womans world when he's not working. Hmmmm.  :-)

Idiosyncrasies? Yes, they certainly exist in both mechanics and electronics, but they are touching on Chaos Theory for explanations, but that is where the answer lies and I see it as no reason for calling something a woman, suggesting deviation from correct operation means they must be female is an insult isnt it? %)

It is a tradition, no doubt. I wonder how far back in history it goes, a long way I reckon. I guess the reasoning back then maybe be less visible to us now perhaps.



Title: Re: 'She' or 'It'
Post by: essex2visuvesi on September 14, 2015, 11:15:03 PM
I heard that changing a ship's name was bad luck, but the Royal navy changed ships names often when relegating the vessel to another duty such as a training ship or an accomodation ship, and they usually survive.

I was told that military vehicles are called 'He'


Not always....
There's the Green Goddesses
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_Goddess
Title: Re: 'She' or 'It'
Post by: derekwarner on September 14, 2015, 11:27:47 PM
Interesting  %)....found this a part of an older text...I have highlighted the word describing the vessel............. Derek

According to Genesis, God gave Noah instructions for building the ark. Seven days before the deluge, God told Noah to enter the ark with his household and the animals. The story goes on to describe the ark being afloat throughout the flood and subsequent receding of the waters before it came to rest on the Mountains of Ararat.
Title: Re: 'She' or 'It'
Post by: Capt Podge on September 14, 2015, 11:42:51 PM
Found this on a google search
 
http://www.boatsafe.com/kids/kidsquesshe.htm (http://www.boatsafe.com/kids/kidsquesshe.htm)
 
Conversely, here's another from a Naval Historian
 
http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2014/feb/01/ask-grown-up-boats-called-she (http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2014/feb/01/ask-grown-up-boats-called-she)
 
 
...and let's not forget Her Majesty the Queen (and others) who, when launching ships recite the words "I name this ship (name). God bless HER and all who sail in HER".
 
So far, no definitive answer found......
 
Regards,
 
Ray.
 
Title: Re: 'She' or 'It'
Post by: rickles23 on September 15, 2015, 09:48:53 AM
Hi,


According to Lloyds of London ships are no longer called shes.


Most of the Royal Navy and private owners told Lloyds what they could do.


Regards
Title: Re: 'She' or 'It'
Post by: Bob K on September 15, 2015, 09:50:55 AM
In most European Romance based languages, with roots in Latin, nouns are assigned gender without upsetting the Politically Correct Brigade.  In French for instance a chair is feminine and a hat is masculine.  In Latin the word for ship was “Navis”, feminine gender.  Since medieval times English has gradually lost its gender pronouns and associations, but some traditional aspects remain.
Hundreds of years of usage cannot easily be wiped away, no matter how irregular and often illogical our language has become. 

See also:  http://www.glossophilia.org/?p=1411 (http://www.glossophilia.org/?p=1411)
Title: It or She
Post by: Nemo on September 15, 2015, 11:18:04 AM
In my 50 odd years of sailing I have called all my boats, large or small,  'she' or 'it' as the need takes me and with this discussion I do not think it odd that I never thought to use the term 'he'! It is just an affectionate habit (calling ships 'she') that sailing men have  acquired through the centuries - it's that simple.  O0
Title: Re: 'She' or 'It'
Post by: radiojoe on September 15, 2015, 12:29:25 PM
Ships will always be "she" to me,  to quote the Queen launching a ship "may god bless HER and all that sail in HER" That's good enough for me. %%
Title: Re: 'She' or 'It'
Post by: Positive on September 16, 2015, 11:48:01 AM
Why are ships wimmen? says Billy Magee,
'Ere's a few reasons as look good to me.
There's good uns an' bad uns, an wild an' contrary,
An stubborn an' stupid an' devil-may-carey;
There's some that ain'nothin' but varnish an' paint,
There's some 'as got tempers 'ud bother a saint,
There's some steers a course an' there's some as just won't,
There's them fellers stick to an' them as  they don't
An' this 'ere's a fact about wimmen and 'ookers - *
The best uns to live with ain't all the best lookers.
'Umour an' coax 'em you'll get your own way with 'em,
'Andle 'em wrong, there's the divvle to Pay with 'em.
'Larn all you life, you won't know all about 'em.
An' wot 'ud the world be for us chaps without 'em?

C. Fox-Smith

*   Hooker, or 'ooker above, was the slang name for ships in the distant past, when the word had a different meaning from now!

I wonder if Jerry has been to sea? - somehow I doubt it.  ;)

Take the following time-honoured nautical sayings:

I name this ship.... and God bless all who sail in her.      (Launching ceremony)
Steady as she goes (Helm order).
Stop her. (Order to stop engines).

Should these in fact be:
I name this ship.... and God bless all who sail in it?
Steady as it goes!
Stop it!    {-)

I have known hard men who sailed in the same ship for decades on end, and when their beloved ships were scrapped, their hearts were broken!

I myself spent 11 years in one ship, and she meant the world to me.   It was heartbreaking when I left her all forlorn in a drydock in the driving snow and hail, never to see her again, when she was sold at the age of 27 years.

Nowadays, it is fashionable to call anything that floats a "boat" even if it is a quarter of a million tons!  >:-o

Old traditions should be honoured, in my view :-)
 
Bob
Title: Re: 'She' or 'It'
Post by: Jerry Hill on September 16, 2015, 08:40:32 PM
I wonder if Jerry has been to sea

Only on sea trials during 29 years in the marine industry, always slept in my own bed at the end of the day though  :-)
Title: Re: 'She' or 'It'
Post by: Xtian29 on September 17, 2015, 03:39:40 AM
Hello


In French as in Latin there is gender for everthing.   A boat is "he" for a croiseur (cruiser) and "she" for a frégate (frigate)  - then if the croiseur is named Jeanne D'arc, it's no more "he" but "she" as the Maid of Oleans was a woman (or just ashes for british  %)  )  Well : the result is la Jeanne d'Arc

So I stop here as the word paquebot (liner) is male, the word France is female and the result for the 60's famous ship is : le France   %% 


Anyway in English, I don't care about LLoyds recommendation, I like and use "she" for any ship or boat, even if she's named HMS Churchill (S46) maybe I should change to  "it" if one time there is a USS Caitlyn Jenner   :embarrassed:


Xtian

Title: Re: 'She' or 'It'
Post by: warspite on September 17, 2015, 01:50:02 PM
Yea that one would have a nasty surprise waiting for you under the waterline, a bit of a bulbous bow type appendage just back of the smoke stack.
Title: Re: 'She' or 'It'
Post by: Positive on September 17, 2015, 04:51:16 PM
I can understand those in the shipbuilding industry regarding ships just as large machines, without a soul.    It is different when you sail  in them for any length of time though.     They develop characters and appear to live and breath even though they are machines.
They need to be well fed with oil (or coal in days gone by), or they will not work.      Electricity is pulsing through their wiring veins and the beat of the engine is like a heartbeat.     When I first went to sea, I was talking with the seamen on the poop deck of the old ore carrier Sagamore when they were discussing this same subject.    An old  able seaman went over to one of the small vents on the side of the deck and told us to listen to it.      It sounded for all the world like breathing, in and out.   He then said  to listen to it in heavy seas, and it would sound like panting, and gasping as the ship laboured to cope with the stresses.       I only did trials on one ship, an oil tanker out of Cammell Lairds.    We went up to the measured mile off the isle of Arran, returning 48 hours later.  Being so new, the ship had no character and was just behaving like an awkward lump of steel with an engine in it.     

But I sailed for 5 years in the passenger liner Windsor Castle, and 11 years in the passenger liner St. Helena, and developed a real love for them over the years.    I also sailed in 17 other ships, from colliers to passenger liners, and they all had distinguishing traits that were usually different to sister ships that were identical, but behaved differently.

Other countries may have different ways of looking at it, but I was taking it from the British point of view, held by most of those who sailed in them!

Doesn't matter all that much to me, but I regard ships as "she.!"      It does annoy me though when merchant ships are referred to as "Boats."        Warships are never referred to as boats.     Warships or battleships, why not "warboat" or "battleboat?"    {-)

Bob