Model Boat Mayhem

Mess Deck: General Section => Tugs and Towing => Topic started by: GrahamD on October 22, 2015, 11:26:48 AM

Title: New MMM build?
Post by: GrahamD on October 22, 2015, 11:26:48 AM
I posted this elsewhere but didnt get any replies, so I'm hoping its better in here  <:( 




Now the Northlight (Maggie) is nearing completion, I've got to admit I'm hooked, and part converted from Aircraft building lol. Always fancied a Tug and quite keen on playing with towing etc. I've ordered a Mobile Marine Models Portgarth, and have emailed them for availability of the hull etc, as I know they must be at Blackpool this weekend (sods law I'm in Blackpool next weekend   ).

A few observations I've seen and read (and in fact a second hand model of the Model Slipways Vliestroom I had a few years back), I'm not sure about using plastic sheet. The Vliestroom had gone brittle, something I don't think would happen with ply, not only that I find I'm more at home with wood. So questions ?


1/ Am I biting off more than I can handle ? (I have built many models over my lifetime, but I'm talking Billings and Keil-Kraft)
2/ If I go for the Bow Thruster option, what size would I need and from who as MMM do not list one ?
3/ Do I look for alternative motors to the MMM T12 (Fan blower or WHAT ELSE ) ?HELP ?

(in fact I've now ordered packs 1,2 &3 and the Korts)
Title: Re: New MMM build?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on October 22, 2015, 11:45:50 AM

1. No. You're learning everything you need to know from your Northlight build, so nothing to worry about.

2. Anything stated on the plans?  ( See: http://www.deansmarine.co.uk/shop/index.php/cPath/35_38 (http://www.deansmarine.co.uk/shop/index.php/cPath/35_38) )

3. The MMM T12 motors are very nice....!

4. "I'm not sure about using plastic sheet. The Vliestroom had gone brittle" - that's very unusual, has it been stored somewhere with a lot of sunlight!
Title: Re: New MMM build?
Post by: Brian60 on October 22, 2015, 02:03:42 PM
1. Go with your gut instinct- you can do it! You've built other models and made mistakes I'm sure, you learn from the mistake and correct it, or start over. This is the nature of meddling modelling.

2. I think there is only 1 manufacturer of bow thrusters still available - Raboesh. They come in 25mm tubes I think or it could be 20mm. So you sleeve the tube up or down to suit--See answer 1! Raboesh are expensive, so you might want to explore making your own.

3. Motor choice, hmm. Look at what is recommended in the kit and then use those or locate a similar power unit of other manufacture. Having a airplane background you may want to swap out standard brushed motors for brushless which you may have more knowledge of.
Title: Re: New MMM build?
Post by: Skimmer Fan on October 22, 2015, 03:18:03 PM
Home made bow thruster you can refine it but it works.
Title: Re: New MMM build?
Post by: GrahamD on October 22, 2015, 03:45:23 PM
Hmm cool skimmer. I also found this on on rcg


(http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p286/Metatron_the_Seraphin/Outros/CIMG2423.jpg)


(http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p286/Metatron_the_Seraphin/Outros/CIMG2424.jpg)
Title: Re: New MMM build?
Post by: Fastfaz on October 22, 2015, 04:44:52 PM
   Hi,
       The Portgarth is a great tug for towing although there are a lot of bits to knock off, re the MMM kit speaking from experience make sure that you check all the fittings for an acceptable finish and do not cut any parts from the template pack unless you have treble checked the fit be aware! I got that p++++d off with the bits from my Norton cross that I invoked the Frank Sinatra theory and did it my way.
       T12 motors are very good but expensive, if you plan on towing heavy tow's have you thought about car heater motors? a lot of the guys at Balne moor use them and they are the towing experts, you can get them on fleabay for round the 25,00 mark. I have a T12 in the NC and she pulls fine with low drain on the battery (12v 7ah lead acid). Re the bowthruster make your own, my first attempt was with the NC and she works really well only alteration I would make is to site the tube right at the bottom of the hull. If you need or want any photos of the NC PM me our email address and I'll send you some. Hope this helps.
      Cheers,
           Faz. :-)) :-)) :-)) :-)) :-)) :-)) :-))
Title: Re: New MMM build?
Post by: FsASTSyd1 on October 22, 2015, 07:04:16 PM
Motors of all shapes and sizes from this outfit.


http://www.distel.co.uk/DC_motors_1.htm
Title: Re: New MMM build?
Post by: andywright on October 28, 2015, 07:22:31 PM
I wouldn't bother with a bow thruster when you have twin screw, save the money. You will get the same effect when manoeuvring by using one engine ahead and one astern, also use steerable kort nozzles, then you can direct the thrust. Also buy good propellers, Prop Shop make props especially for MMM kort nozzles.
Title: Re: New MMM build?
Post by: Fastfaz on October 29, 2015, 08:20:17 AM
    Have to disagree about the bowthruster, with a lot of practise you'll be able to make the boat go sideways, you won't do that with just twin screws in steerable Korts.
     Cheers,
         Faz.
Title: Re: New MMM build?
Post by: norry on October 29, 2015, 04:33:49 PM
If you are going to tow with the tug then its Bowthruster every time....

Title: Re: New MMM build?
Post by: ray123 on October 29, 2015, 09:07:50 PM
my latest tug  is twin screw & steering nozzel's 70mm  (mobile marine model one' )  i can side step with ease   


i dont have a bow thruster
Title: Re: New MMM build?
Post by: Fastfaz on October 30, 2015, 03:28:01 AM
     Yo Ray,
            Instructions how please.
                 Cheers,
                     Faz.
Title: Re: New MMM build?
Post by: Brian60 on October 30, 2015, 07:28:31 AM
Hmm cool skimmer. I also found this on on rcg


(http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p286/Metatron_the_Seraphin/Outros/CIMG2423.jpg)


(http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p286/Metatron_the_Seraphin/Outros/CIMG2424.jpg)

Have you got a full link to this article? I can see how it works, but what I fail to see in those two photos is how they have made the motor waterproof and following on how they keep the water from flooding the hull. To me it looks like the motor is just 'plugged' into the tube.
Title: Re: New MMM build?
Post by: ray123 on October 30, 2015, 08:07:59 AM
     Yo Ray,
            Instructions how please.
                 Cheers,
                     Faz.
hi faz    i have a f 14 navy 'twin stick   the 2 nozzels  are linked together  this is how i can go sideways


one motor  ahead  & the other one astern  then add the rudder hard over  the boat may at first ether  go forwards at first  so just ease off the forward motor a bit  untill you get the balance right     this is how i do it  :-))
Title: Re: New MMM build?
Post by: Tug Fanatic on October 30, 2015, 08:50:04 AM
Getting the model to move sideways is not the same as getting it to push sideways. The 540 motor that is used in most of the type of bow thruster shown by skimmer fan above gives the same sort of thrust as a Springer gets from its main thrust motors. By comparison the others are toys. If you really want to have the sort of control where you can push/pull a heavy tow in any direction there is only one choice here.

If you just want to be able to move the model sideways then the choice is much wider. 
Title: Re: New MMM build?
Post by: inertia on October 30, 2015, 10:07:47 AM
Point of fact:
I know the square root of Sweet Fanny Adams about tug-towing but I can spot a 540 motor from a mile away. The motor in those photos of the DIY bow-thruster is not a 540. It looks more like a 260 to me. I wouldn't bet on one of those pulling the skin off a rice-pudding, and I certainly wouldn't entertain fitting one in the bow-thruster of a towing tug. As T-F says, you need as much oomph as you can get for that job. Those flat paddles/flaps are very prone to stripping their fixings if anything intrudes into the tube (is that one just glued on???) , and they're not terribly efficient anyway. A decent 540 3-pole motor on 7.2v running a 'proper' propeller in a tube via an angled shaft, bevel gears or flexible drive would be my choice.
DM
Title: Re: New MMM build?
Post by: Tug Fanatic on October 30, 2015, 11:11:11 AM
Point of fact:
I know the square root of Sweet Fanny Adams about tug-towing but I can spot a 540 motor from a mile away. The motor in those photos of the DIY bow-thruster is not a 540. It looks more like a 260 to me. I wouldn't bet on one of those pulling the skin off a rice-pudding, and I certainly wouldn't entertain fitting one in the bow-thruster of a towing tug. As T-F says, you need as much oomph as you can get for that job. Those flat paddles/flaps are very prone to stripping their fixings if anything intrudes into the tube (is that one just glued on???) , and they're not terribly efficient anyway. A decent 540 3-pole motor on 7.2v running a 'proper' propeller in a tube via an angled shaft, bevel gears or flexible drive would be my choice.
DM


Point of Fact:
I don't think that you are looking at the same thruster as I am. I said very clearly that I was looking at the example above from Skimmer Fan at Reply 3. This is not the same as the paddle type posted by GrahamD and Brian60.
This is the one that I mean
http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=52801.0;attach=154444 (http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=52801.0;attach=154444)
This type of thruster - which as far as I know was developed by Ministeve - is normally powered by a 540 motor into a 40mm waste pipe with a cut down 45mm plastic prop and is brilliant. The small motor and paddle type thrusters might be ideal for turning a model but nothing more.
Title: Re: New MMM build?
Post by: inertia on October 30, 2015, 11:45:58 AM
There's nothing here with which I'd disagree, m'duck.
You should know by now that one of the rules of Mayhem is not to read any of the previous posts before you reply!  8)
DM
Title: Re: New MMM build?
Post by: Brian60 on October 30, 2015, 12:01:47 PM

You should know by now that one of the rules of Mayhem is not to read any of the previous posts before you reply!  8)
DM

I resemble that remark -- several times O0 O0 %%
Title: Re: New MMM build?
Post by: Fastfaz on October 30, 2015, 03:36:52 PM
     My Anita.C (Norton cross) has a bow thruster similar to the one in  reply 3 it was built on Ministeve's advice using B&Q white waste pipe (I think its 40mm ish haven't measured it) a suitable 4 blade brass prop and shaft that I had in stock coupled to an MFA 500. If you want to see a bowthruster pushing a big tow sideways have a look on the Balne moor "North sea winches" post she is the Norton cross in Weijsmuller colours. That's how a bowthruster should work.
     Cheers,
            Faz. :-)) :-)) :-)) :-)) :-)) :-)) :-))
Title: Re: New MMM build?
Post by: mrturbo553 on October 30, 2015, 05:43:26 PM
Portgarth,tug towing, North Sea winches ,
Is this my cue to chip my two pence worth in !!
 :-))
Title: Re: New MMM build?
Post by: Fastfaz on October 30, 2015, 06:03:56 PM
Yo Shady,
     How could my Anita.C compete pushing sideways with your beast of a Portgarth? I'm sure its got a bigger motor than my Ducati. Folks you need to to try this tug then you will understand.
     Cheers,
           Faz. :-)) :-)) :-)) :-)) :-)) :-)) :-))
P.S. My word that's a big engine! said the "Fat Controller."
Title: Re: New MMM build?
Post by: GrahamD on November 04, 2015, 06:45:35 PM
And look what arrived yesterday (had to drive 3 miles to meet courier as he was lost)




(http://i314.photobucket.com/albums/ll431/grahamdrry/mmm/20151104_182137_zpsiprzr2lp.jpg)
Title: Re: New MMM build?
Post by: derekwarner on November 04, 2015, 08:29:18 PM
 %).....Looks like an ironing board with a wooden brace + a pair of P frames & a few 60 diameter Kortz thingies......not sure what KHD 10x2 MS is?

When will you unwrap the parcel?......... Derek
Title: Re: New MMM build?
Post by: GrahamD on November 05, 2015, 12:47:03 PM

When will you unwrap the parcel?......... Derek


Now


(http://i314.photobucket.com/albums/ll431/grahamdrry/mmm/20151105_122714_zpsasetdymn.jpg)




(http://i314.photobucket.com/albums/ll431/grahamdrry/mmm/20151105_123042_zpshyah7ocs.jpg)
Title: Re: New MMM build?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on November 05, 2015, 01:48:49 PM
 
Have you got the motors in yet?   ok2
Title: Re: New MMM build?
Post by: GrahamD on November 05, 2015, 01:53:13 PM

Have you got the motors in yet?    ok2


Ordered the MMM M12's today.
Title: Re: New MMM build?
Post by: Brian60 on November 05, 2015, 02:14:37 PM
Check out this topic...
http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,52917.0.html

I reckon the motors in this Playmobil could be adapted to bowthruster use, see them working in the video.
Title: Re: New MMM build?
Post by: steamboat66 on July 09, 2016, 04:59:00 PM
i'm sure one of you could come up with a direct drive thruster using a brushless motor. they can work in any environment, wet or dry. only the wires to seal up then.
Title: Re: New MMM build?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on July 09, 2016, 06:13:19 PM
Check out this topic...
http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,52917.0.html

I reckon the motors in this Playmobil could be adapted to bowthruster use, see them working in the video.

Good call!   :o
Title: Re: New MMM build?
Post by: andywright on March 25, 2017, 07:26:22 PM
    Have to disagree about the bowthruster, with a lot of practise you'll be able to make the boat go sideways, you won't do that with just twin screws in steerable Korts.
     Cheers,
         Faz.
I make the full size tug I am captain of go side ways all the time with twin korts, it's just a knack, it's easier with a tow