Model Boat Mayhem
The Shipyard ( Dry Dock ): Builds & Questions => Lifeboats => Topic started by: Canterbury Coxswain on January 03, 2016, 12:38:58 pm
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Never thought I would be doing this! I blame Craig [Craggles] and Ned [Netleyned] - the former for showing the start of his Speedline 1/12th Severn build and the latter for his pick-up on my comment on Craig's thread.
So, here we go. Like a lot of folk reading this my workshop is full of lifeboat 'projects' - at 1/12th scale an Arun, Trent, Solent, Mersey, Atlantic '21; at 1/10th scale an Atlantic '75; at 1/16th scale the FCB2 [EffSeaBeeToo] Shannon Prototype; at 1/32nd scale an Impact [RNLI] Severn conversion; at 1/72nd scale the aforementioned Severn and a German DGzRS 46m 'Hermann Marwede'. The Arun was my first, not finished, but on the go for some 15 years! I hope this will make some folk feel better for having read this - print it off and show 'the other half' that there is someone worse than you!
To the nub of the matter. I bought this kit some years ago, wanted to convert it to radio control, started it, put it down when a 'hic-cup' occurred. Painted the hull when I wanted 'an in build' display on my Lifeboat Enthusiasts' Society [LBES] stand at a Show, and then recently - having already bought the shafts and propellers from PropShop - decided to get on with my twin shaft conversion, as there were a number of single shaft 'Deans' versions appearing. I wanted something that could be put on the 'calm' water of a pool at an indoors Show like Brighton Model World [February
I hope this will encourage a few to have a go for themselves. It is small, just about viable, can be made in a very limited space and does not require a workshop [only to store all the other lifeboat projects] and is relatively inexpensive. I will try a few 'posts' over the next few days to start to catch up the build.
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Sorry Reader,
Meant to say in the opening narrative above - Brighton Model World [February 19th - 21st 2016] and the 'Warwick' International MB Show. I got distracted by comments from the kitchen regarding Sunday lunch!
Kim >>:-(
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HI Kim
Will be watching this closely, i have 2 of the ready to run models, tank stear type that i am going to covert to "proper control" will be interesting how you do the conversion, good luck
Regards
Mark
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Just had a look at the one I have, kindly donated by
a member on here.
I was waiting for the upgrade version of the drive
from Dean's that seems to have disappeared.
Twin screw would be heaps better.
I have the hull together with no holes yet
so ready to look and learn.
Congrats on 'Full' status and thanks for the beer :-))
Ned
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In case you decide to build one of these I'll go back one step to the hull build - it needs to be done carefully and utilising the deck as a dry fit 'in-fill', this keeps all in shape while it dries and leaves no problems later on.
Also to be borne in mind are the size and therefore the 'all up weight' to keep it on the actual boats waterline. The model is just under nine and a half inches long [OAL] or 238mm and has a width of three and one eighth inches or 79mm. The length on the waterline is eight and a half inches long. The weight to bring it to the waterline, once the shafts and their outer casings were fitted, plus the propellers, 'A' frames, rudders and their shafts were in place was 42 grams. This is at the point where I have constructed the wheelhouse in such a way [not as per the plans] that it can be taken on and off as a whole, easily, and that will allow the removal of the interior - as should it be required this is another saving of 12 grams! As I am writing this now some time after this part of the build the electric speed controller [ESC], forward only, has arrived from Hobby King in Hong Kong. The internal controls and electrics come out as:
- 3.7 volt single cell LiPo battery - 14 grams
- ESC - 3 grams
- Receiver [Rx] - 4 grams
- motors x2 [with gear boxes 3 grams] - 6 grams
- shaft couplings - 2 grams
- servo for rudders - 9 grams
All of this equals 38 grams, leaving some 4 grams for the extra plastic parts of the kit, paint [do not forget this as the weight is considerable on this tight tolerance build] and the wiring. So I might need that interior detail section out when on the water. I'll take a photo of these items later today or tomorrow and post, obviously some of the wiring and plugs will be reduced or taken off once the set-up has had a 'dry run' off the boat. This will save some valuable weight as it is included in the figures above.
The photo of the deck area will show how I have assembled and then cut out the wheelhouse floor to leave an up stand [which will need to be raised a little at the bow end to repel water from the forward deck area] and adding the back wall of the wheelhouse as an integral part that can be lifted off - not as per the plans. Trust this all makes sense, so far.
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The shaft outer tubes supplied by PropShop I reduced by 20mm, having cut through and gently tapped from the inside the end bearing, then I faced off the cut end on the lathe and re-inserted the bearing. Later, when all fitted in place I also took about 15mm off the shafts too. I drilled one hole through the hull from the outside, starting small and then progressing up through the sizes to 3.5mm, then finished off with a round file to get the elliptical shape to allow the tube to sit low in the aperture. Once I was satisfied I did the same with the other side and then made a couple of spacers for bth ends of the shafts with a 25mm separation. Normally I would make discs to replace the propellers on the outside part of the shafts with a 3mm x 2 [allowance for clearance over the 12mm diameter] - here I used Blutac and to position them before 'spot welding' with Superglue [CNA] and then boxing on the inside and using 24 hour Araldite resin glue. All seemed to go OK. When hardened, removed the spacers and fitted the shaft and propellers. Satisfaction so far. Next session the 'A' frames.
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Great work, like the tube supports in the last picture
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Looking great Kim
I knew I should have bought one of these while I had the chance for inspiration on my 1:12th version. Just had a look for one and they seem hard to find again?
Be good to see the progress so keep up with the updates. :-)
Craig.
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Thanks Craig - glad to see you have actually tracked one down and purchased it, as you say it will acquaint you with the boat a little.
On with the 'A' frame build next. I started by using a little bit of etched brass 'sprue' from my Speedline Trent parts, so it is a little oversized, but I was happy with that. I then soldered the required size tube inside the bend and then 'chain drilled' the slots, having broken off the already assembled plastic ones. Then I pushed these through the slots, bent them over [not very pretty at that stage!], before boxing them on the inside of the hull and then filling with 24 hour Araldite resin glue. During this process the paintwork has got scratched, but it has to all be rubbed back before completing the hull paintwork. For those wondering, I use the Halford's spray paint for this, being the Ford Balliol Blue - the nearest match to the actual BS numbered RNLI paint. When fitted and hardened off I then fitted the shafts back and with a small amount of reaming on one side they both spin freely, however, I have noticed one shaft is now about 1/32nd of an inch out of line! Next I'll concentrate on the rudder build / conversion and their shafts.
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It was at this point I decided to plug the two rudder shaft holes with Blutac, and with the shafts and propellers in place, weight the model to the water line, including the wheelhouse and interior - job done - now to take off the wheelhouse and weigh the extra weights [three 3.7 volt LiPo batteries], inside a large amount of water!! :embarrassed: Silly boy to use batteries as weights - let that be a learning curve for others, but no damage appeared to have been done when they were very quickly dried off and allowed to dry 'naturally'. I was fortunate, if you have not used this type of batteries before it is well worth looking up the safety side of things and the method to use [sand and salted water] should a mishap occur. The ingress was through the underside of the bow thruster tube on the hull's bow. You can see I dammed one side with a small 'V' of styrene card and then infilled with Araldite resin glue - when dry a second test in the ubiquitous washing up bowl and all was well. :} On with the rudders. I had decided to use the original kit ones and modify slightly in both the thickness and length [an extra 2mm], but so they still 'look' in scale. To this end I utilised 1mm [.95mm] stainless rod [from PropShop], styrene card and a dentists' drill I acquired cheekily some 53 years ago from my dentist Alan Vogt in Trinity Road at Wandsworth Common! I was a young lad heading for the teenage years making Airfix kits [as you can see, still am!] and Stanley gave me a handful, which I still have and use - if only he could know! I bent the shaft to a right angle, drilled out a 'cavity' [excuse the pun] to accept this shaft, glued it with Araldite, then covered with that side with a template of styrene card to the new depth, adding a small piece on the original side. This was then all shaped and polished with those nail file emery boards [from Boots the Chemist] that go down to the 12,000 grade level and ladies use to polish their nails - superb. Then the outer rudder tubes were added when cut to length, inserted and glued in place, using a small length of styrene tube on each to re-inforce. Then, later adding a small rectangle of 1mm carbon fibre sheet profiled and fixed to the stern / transom hull to prevent flex when the servo is connected. Next will be the deck support plates, as I mean to be able to screw the deck into place on the hull.
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Well done CC....those rectangular and square encasements for epoxy grouting the prop shaft casings & A frames are simply good design & workmanship :-)) ...if they do it in real vessel applications, there is no reason why we should not follow the same path .......
Yes, that displacement check & estimation or calculation's are also good practise O0 .....Derek
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I have one on its way £15.00 plus £4.00 postage Antics website also found some for £60.00 a bit overpriced!
Joe☺☺☺
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That's a good price too.
I found mine on a website from a company called Kingkit who deals in previously owned and end of line model kits. I have used them before and always been impressed with what I have received but as it is a pre-owned kit there is a chance it is an older release but he does guarantee they are complete and un-started unless otherwise stated. He has 10 more in stock if anyone else is interested.
Paid £18.50 for it, will let you know what it looks like when it arrives.
Will make a useful reference I think for my bigger, 1:12th scale kit. :-)
Craig.
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Got one ma self fro Antics :} had the same idea Craig! I am going to use it as an aid to my 1/16 build that I have on the bench.
Tim
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There's certainly a 'rush' on the Airfix 1/72nd Severn kit now - should push the prices up! I wonder what the economy would look like if you took out all the model kit world production, purchases and postage costs?
I said I would take a shot of the internal electrics bought so far. As also said, some of the plugs will be taken off and items 'hard wired', also the lengths of cables reduced to what is required. I am having second thoughts on the 'forward only' ESC, so have ordered two units from a Chinese gentleman in this country that have reverse also, but a 'with brake' mini-switch too. A little more weight, but worth the try - I'll only be using one, much as I would love to have one on each motor!! Talking of which, when the battery is connected to the little geared motor unit [and it's on full speed] I have tried to stop it turning with my fingers and gave up with the heat and pain caused! Seemed quite powerful, I think they are used for mini quad-copters. Regarding the servo and weight, I am also thinking of milling out some of the blue plastic case if required - but not my first choice.
Off to Canterbury Choral Society rehearsal in a short while [Haydn's Nelson Mass and Vivaldi's [popular] Gloria - RV 589] for a Concert in a few weeks time in the Cathedral, so I'll try and post the deck support panels installation when I get back later.
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It will be interesting to see how performance of a more scale like two prop version compares with the simplified single shaft one that Dean's Marine did with their forwards only Mini RC set a while back
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIfbJcBrs4Y
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Thanks for this video clip 'ANI' - it was a reminder that the HiAb could overbalance the model to the starboard side, so when putting the electrics in, a slight compensation for that ought to help with the final outcome. Ron's also went very well and a comparison, although not what I intended, will be interesting to see. I just wanted something that could go on a couple of indoor small pools at Shows and on another small 'project' I have whirling around in my head - like we do! I also wanted it to look scale-like when off the water and on the stand's display area. Interesting, it handled better than I could have imagined, so might be able to venture further afield, but, I must 'walk' with it [get it on the water to the right level] before I can 'run' with it [send it out into the deep at those type of speeds!]. Kim.
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I am on Board Kim, don't let me get wet! %)
Len.
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Well, My Airfix Severn has arrived today, very pleased with it.
It is, how shall we say, small though....... :-))
I was expecting it to be a bit smaller than my 1:12th version bit it's tiddly! I can see now that radio controlling it isn't as straight forward as I first thought so carry on with your build Kim and I'll copy once you have worked out all the bugs. :-)
Craig.
(http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd126/craggle427/Severn%20Build/IMG_3157.jpg) (http://s227.photobucket.com/user/craggle427/media/Severn%20Build/IMG_3157.jpg.html)
(http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd126/craggle427/Severn%20Build/IMG_3156.jpg) (http://s227.photobucket.com/user/craggle427/media/Severn%20Build/IMG_3156.jpg.html)
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Kim,
Can you give us a link to the esc supplier?
I think I have located the motor/gearbox at Hobbyking.
It gives the weight as 1.9g so I assume its the right one.
40000 rpm seems a bit high?
Ned
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Mine came today to :-))
Your right Craig its certainly going to be fun trying to rc it.
Tim
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Kim brought along his build so far, to our Club Meeting last night. Yipes it is small!!, time to get your eyes tested and an upgrade to specs. After my 19ft build this looks so tiny and he talks in Grammes and even peeling labels off to reduce weight.
Len.
Scale Secretary, Model Boat Association Dover, Kent UK.
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Just in case anyone is looking at this and thinking "seems a lot of effort" I noticed today that the ready to run Severn is in the sale items on the RNLI web shop for only £40. I was tempted but think three Severn's in the house may be a bit over the top. :}
It claims to be 1:20 scale as well but it's not. The drawings I have are 1:20 and it's a decent size but looking at the dimensions on the RNLI shop page I reckon their model is closer to 1:35 scale.
Craig.
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Your correct Craggle, this mistake was pointed out to the RNLI back in 2007 when the model was first produced, they failed to correct it in their brochure then and it is still being advertised as 1/20th scale 9 years later!
The boat is basically accurate however and runs very well when converted to full R/C.
17-09
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Hi Ned
Can you give the Hobbyking code number for the motor/gearbox you found please
Mark
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Sorry folks, but like all of us, you suddenly get a period [for me the last 48 hours] when life just takes off and has to be dealt with - model boats then take a 'stern' seat!
He is the the hull with the deck supports, made from 1mm styrene card with triangular supports glued underneath to take any later small pressures in the downward movement! The two that come after the bow one were given a gentle tweak with the fingers to conform to the slight 'S' configuration.
I'll try and catch up the number of personal queries a few have raised either later tonight or tomorrow night - tomorrow is also a busy day!
Thanks for all your interest. The new ESC with reverse and a switched brake has arrived, so I'll weigh it and photograph it and it should be on soon.
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Just picking up on a few comments and requests.
NetleyNed is correct on the geared motor set-up from Hobby King - 'Micro Power system with gearbox [GPS-6]. I agree that the rpm [unloaded] is quite high, But it's a starting point and can always be replaced with something better later [or before if I find it!]. They were only £3.38 each.
Those wanting details for the ESC - Hobby King again, but 'Forward Only' 3Amp single cell [3.7volts] for brushed micro motors - part number BR3A/11885 at £7.04. It only weighs 2 or 3 grams, right on the limit, so goes backwards and forwards between the weights - what's in a gram between friends, well a lot in this little set-up!!
Now, just turned up is the new ESC 20Amp with forward and reverse + a switchable brake [for brushed motors]. I got this on Ebay from TOMTOP Technology Ltd item number 171871525406 costing £6.88. I have attached a photo, unfortunately it weighs 12 grams! However, a lot of this can be reduced by shortening the length of some of the wires and taking the plugs off. Of course it would have been nice to have an ESC for each motor, possible with the forward only ESC with the wheelhouse interior removed.
I aim to drill and tap the 1.2mm threads for the deck screws next, but that will probably have to wait until Wednesday. I have been very busy during the last week on a number of other lifeboat related matters. After that I might well make up a test bed for the electrical system, outside of the boat. Big Ada mentioned my little talk at last week's MBA-Dover meeting. Something that I had overlooked was the voltage required for the Receiver [RX], brought to my attention by another club member. My system here is on a single cell LiPo of 3.7 volts - the Rx will require 4.8 volts. So I shall raid my little railway OO scale MAN lorry [to be converted into an RNLI supplies and parts delivery vehicle - what else!!] which works on this voltage, but requires a Spectrum 2.4Ghz system - there, more 'drinking voucher' money that I will have to charge up to 'house keeping'. I bought this as a kit at the Dortmund Modellbau last year, but I'm booked to be back this April with 17-09, so shall replace it then.
Well, have a good week and thanks for the interest.
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Canterbury Coxswain visiting another Airfix Severn build here today, put to good use holding the finished hull and deck, this one fitted out with the Deans micro R/C. (Single shaft version) should have cleaned it before photographing...
17-09
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Just noticed, the lower photo on the previous post is only 1/2 inch shorter than the actual model! (when viewed on my laptop)
This demonstrates the small scale of a 1/72nd build and might help those who have commentated just how small it looks.
17-09
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Found a little bit of time this afternoon [in a very busy lifeboat and modelling week - spent a few hours photographing 12-21 RNLB Margaret Jean out of the water at Ramsgate where she is on the quayside as a Relief boat - another 180 detailed photos] to drill and tap the 1.4mm screw holes to fix the deck to the hull. Used a 0.8mm drill prior to tapping with a 1.4mm tap. The bow plate first two did not work too well, so moved them back slightly and the next two worked! Will have to fill the holes now. The stainless steel screws came from Knupfer at the Dortmund Modellbau last April. Eight in all will fix the deck - when all in place they will not have to come off too often hopefully, but do allow full access, should it be needed. I will wipe a smear of Vaseline around the inner hull lip, prior to fixing for the last time before its first sea trials [in the bath!].
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Canterbury Coxswain, one question, will the deck remain Grey.... :-))
Sorry Fella, couldn't resist
Seriously, really interesting build, keep it coming, really enjoying it.
Mac
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Yes, 'Mac', it will remain grey, but another shade of the fifty to hand!!
Kindest regards and a Happy New Year,
Kim
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As you will know by now, I'm always on the lookout to find a way to reduce weight anywhere on this project, firstly to make sure that I get the model to sit on the correct waterline and beyond that, wouldn't it be great if we could get an ESC on each motor, even at 'forward only'. So when 17-09 and myself visited the London Model Engineering Show at Alexander Palace yesterday [and saw so many Mayhemers!!] I bought this little LiPo off the 'minicam' stand of Cam-Shop-Online.com; it measures 30x20mm [the original one is 30x50mm] and weighs just 6 grams [the other is 14 grams] and delivers 600mAh, whereas the other one is slightly more at 730mAh. That said, I will only be using it for short on-water displays and I overheard the lady on the stand say that when used on quadcopters at full burst it gives 5+ minutes duration, whereas in its use for the microcam it will last for up to eight hours. It cost me £7.
I have now made the little stand up on a base plate [idea nicked off 17-09!] which has made life easier. Photo to follow on next post, when I hope to have moved on a little on the build side.
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doing a real good job watching this with interest
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I have mentioned this in other threads but if light weight combined 2.4 GHz Rx and ESC is your area of interest, I can highly recommend Micron RC and the service they offer. My most recent kit conversion, the Airfix Vosper MTB, performs very well indeed on a Deltang Rx 60 board powered by a 250mAh single cell LiPo as configured by Micron to my specifications for a total cost of about £30 + postage. Micron also do suitable geared motors. Have a look at http://www.micronradiocontrol.co.uk/rx_dt_land_r6.html
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ANI,
Many thanks for this - I had come across them before, but had forgotten them, so a timely reminder. Do you have the Rx60-6? I shall look at one of their servos too.
Kim
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It was invoiced as a Rx60-3-W but if you e-mail Micron the specific requirements they will sort out which version to configure to.
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Sorry, been missing for three weeks - like us all, other priorities take over modelling life - a set of rehearsals for a Choral Concert, 12 DVDs of lifeboat photos for modellers off Mayhem to burn off [great - thanks - have raised another £67 for the RNLI], a week sick with a horrible sickness virus and helping a couple of friends with their boat builds and also a couple of big articles for Marine Modelling International magazine!
Enough, on with this build. In the last post I promised to put a photo of the little 'converted' stand idea I 'nicked' off 17-09, simple, but effective.
Then, on this build, I am trying out a few new products recently purchased for my 'other life' in military modelling [modern jets, armoured vehicles and figures / busts] - no idle moments this end!! One being the series of Mr. Hobby 'surfacers' [grey liquid styrene -500 used here, but finer ones too being 1000 and 1200] that fill gaps and join lines. You will see evidence in the photos around the propeller shaft exits on the hulls and I also decided to see what it looked like to paint on the inside of the hull to 'tidy-up' the styrene deck supports, the shaft support boxes and the join line around the three hull sections.
This afternoon I have started to sand this back [not easy in such confined spaces], but then there were still gaps, so I have then tried the Deluxe Materials product - Perfect Plastic liquid putty. I also applied this across the transom area join, as there were very fine scratches here that could be seen in different light conditions. I have now come in to leave this to dry. Hopefully, when this is done I will later sand to a fine finish, which will allow me to start the hull paint job, proper. That will be tomorrow at one of 17-09s three workshops! Only time will tell.
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A bit of a back handed compliment calling Alan simple but effective.
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One thing I did forget on the last post was that 'Allnightin' had mentioned MicronRC, with whom I have been in touch. I was after having a channel for each of the motors, as well as reverse, but they cannot achieve that for me. However, I am hoping to get this week a Rx that will give me forward/reverse on both motors using a 'Y' lead and the battery leads fixed, plus the servo output for the rudders.
I have used a number various methods to get the shaft exits smoothed off and likewise the transom area hairline scratches. The latter did not work using the 'Perfect Plastic' putty, so I chose to take it back with a sponge backed 200 grit, glued to a trimmed down coffee stirrer and then polish the area with scratch remover paste. I will finish off with a fibre glass scratch pen before priming. The shaft exits look smooth and reasonable, but we all know what things look like when we put a light coat of primer on - areas to continue filling and smoothing <:( !!
Let's see what tomorrow brings.
Food now and then the live American Football [NFL] Super Bowl until 0330hrs!!!
Finally, it looks as if MBA-Dover will be looking for a new 'Scale Secretary' soon - eh Big Ada?
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Hi Kim
Looking good and this has to be the quickest build you have ever done {-) {-) {-)
Derek
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I was after having a channel for each of the motors, as well as reverse, but they cannot achieve that for me.
I'm a bit puzzled about that as Micron supplied me with a Rx 43 series with two bidirectional ESC. It worked fine when I tested it on receipt but haven't put it into a mdel yet. Quoting Andy Rutter at Micron in October 2014:
"The Rx43d-2 has 2 x bi-directional ESC that can supply up to 400mA. ... the current rating can be increased to 800mA or 3A with an add-on amplifier." See http://www.micronradiocontrol.co.uk/rx_dt_actuator.html#dt_rx43d .
Did you only discuss Rx 60s by any chance?
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Allnightin,
Thanks for this. Yes, I did put the RX60 onto my enquiry as it seemed OK and the right weight. I will have a look at the RX43 later and its specifications and get back to them. It would be good if I could have this idea working in this little chap above - still dreamin'!!
I'll keep you all up to date.
Regards, Kim
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Well, nearly got blown off the cliffs of Dover today, on my way to 17-09s workshop. When I arrived he said 'which one of my five workshops?' - yes I got it wrong and had left two off! It went downhill from there. In trying to get used to my new Badger Patriot Arrow double action airbrush my 'teacher' was heard to utter words like 'impetuous', 'must listen' and '....try a little harder......', I await my report to arrive in the post - 5/10 - if lucky!! >>:-( It's a long time since I did any 'non-rattle can' spraying.
You will see my efforts below, I have sprayed the white on for the 'reverse masking' technique to apply the waterline. Then later in the week mask to apply the blue [above] and then the red oxide 'anti-foul' coat [below].
You can see the handle 'teacher' made to put through the inside shaft apertures, after filing the ends so as not to damage the bearings. This allowed a good hold and the easy positioning to be able to spray from all sides. I was pleased with the finish. The screwed up paper towel stopped the over-spray from entering inside the hull. That is 'teacher's' hand, by the way.
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Looking good kim.
I went to the top of Beachy head on Saturday which was somewhat breezy too! Very thankful of the big pub up there for the shelter and a huge meal! Popped down to the Eastbourne lifeboat museum as well, good little display and lots in the shop to buy. :}
What paints are you airbrushing here?
Craig.
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Good morning Craig and thanks,
My parents lived up in the 'village' at Eastbourne [brother still lives down in the town] opposite the Hydro Hotel - yes it can get a 'bit blustery'!!
The paints are Vallejo [Spanish company] and this was the white primer which I [suggested by 'teacher] thinned 10 drops from a pippet of thinner to 5ml of paint. When the other two colours are on the hull, plus the Nato Black for the rubber fenders, I'll give it a coat of Vallejo Satin varnish.
Are you going to the Brighton Model World? If so look me [and teacher] out on the LBES stand - this little chap won't be finished!!
Kim
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Remember this little 'fella' is only some 9" [230mm] long and 3" [75mm] wide.
Visited 17-09 [teacher] in his 'inner' and 'mid' workshops today. Having masked and painted his two of these little 1/72nd scale Severns, I thought I would ask him to mask mine up for the blue acrylic coat [Halford's Ford Balliol Blue 'rattle can']. After more than an hour later he finished and I was allowed to spray away! Tamiya 6mm masking tape was used first and then a next boundary layer of 10mm and after that some genuine Duck tape, where the fine edge was not required - in my book [and 17-09s] you can't beat Tamiya! I took the masking tape off after an hour or so of spraying, pulling the tape away and back over the painted area [carefully] - therefore not pulling the paint 'downwards'.
After a couple more days of drying I will hope to return and we'll then do the anti-foul coat [Halford's Red Plastic Primer also referred to as Red Oxide]. Meantime I hope to finish off the filled in holes at the bow of the deck and spray that grey. This is how mine will appear at the Brighton Model World next week [19th-21st February], alongside 17-09s superbly painted and detailed Dover and Newhaven models - ahead of mine, but not finished. Come and see them in their various states and have a chat. One of 17-09s has a minute blue flashing 'emergency' light, it looks so good.
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As a side note look at this site
www.deltang.Co.UK
Some useful micro escs/rx combined
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Klunk,
Thanks for this. Again, like Allnightin recommended with MicronRC, I've been there before and forgotten them, but this looks more like the site I used before - I remember the name Deltang. There's certainly a good choice here. I'll go through them thoroughly and order something when I return from the Brighton Model World. I will do an update here when I get what I want. Thanks again though, this is where the Forum comes in handy and is 'reciprocal'.
Kim
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Hi Kim
Little boat looking great. I haven't yet decided on the Brighton model show but will this weekend. I'll have a chat with my dad and see if he fancies a trip down there with me. Only 40 minutes or so from me so not far to go and the previous years it's been good so should make the effort.
I'll let you know what I decide and come and seek you out during the day if I'm there. Are you there all three days?
Craig.
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Yes Craig,
Stand 141 - Lifeboat Enthusiasts' Society [adjacent to the Southern Model Lifeboat Society]. We'll have some 18 model lifeboats and three vehicles, two will be DGzRS. Two DVD monitors with RNLI on one and DGzRS on the other. Some will venture onto the indoor pool and they are mostly 1/12th and 1/16th [1/14th vehicles] scales. there will be literature on all the boats and some actual RNLI artifacts I've purchased.
We set-up on Thursday and we are there for the three day duration - me and my Team of eight, maybe you can join us with your Severn next year [even if she's still in build - all mine are!!!!]. Seek me or 17-09 out.
Kim
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I think you will find that Deltang produce the bare boards which are usually sold on to firms like Micron who wire them up and configure them to individual requirements.
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Hi Kim
would you be able to take me a copy of you dvd with the Severn class lifeboat on to the brighton model show so I can collect it on Friday .
Regards Derek
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Nice to meet you Kim and Alan on Saturday at the Brighton show and great to be inspired by the models on display and Alan's lovely little Y-boat build. Could have stayed longer talking really but will catch up again in the near future I'm sure.
I'll send you an email in a short while so you can send me details on joining the LBES.
Cheers
Craig.
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As Craig has said, we met at the Brighton Model World, where I and my colleagues and friends of the LBES put on a lifeboat stand display. I will attach few photographs of the Team and some of our display lifeboats, including the Award Winning RNLI Cup 'Y' Class 1/12th lifeboat by Alan Poole [17-09] from the Sandown Park Model Engineering Show 2014 that Craig mentions. You will also see our little Severns on display.
During the Brighton Show I spent each day on our stand converting and painting lifeboat men figures and also 17-09 'reverse' masked the bottom line of the 'boot topping' for my little Severn - he has a very good eye for that. I then covered the rest up for any over-spray not to ruin the blue coat. Photos were taken when I got back to the workshop. The next 'post' will show the result.
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Well, I sprayed the red oxide [anti-foul] coat on yesterday and then took off the masking tape and saw the finish. There are a few small areas for remedial work, the bow area cross-over points on the spray rails and the transom stern corners. These will be masked later in the week and then judiciously hand painted [touched up]. The process was not without its problems though.
- an area around the port-side bow-thruster started to 'crazy pave' and wrinkle, so I quickly put on the workshop secondary heating [electrical convector heater] and slowly cooked the area, gently. Rightly or wrongly it worked!! That was a Halford's acrylic red oxide on a Vallejo white acrylic primmer coat - hmmm. It pulled back and then looked like a weld line around the pronounced streamlining, but it finally went.
- another area, along the underside of the central stern trim plane, bubbled and would not 'pull back', so I use the straight edge of a 6" rule and pushed it flat and then gave another light coat of spray - it has seemed to work.
- three other very small bubbles appeared under the long starboard spray rail, these would not go, so I have left them. None of the above has ever happened to me before when spraying - hey ho, but all in all I am very pleased, 17-09 made a very good job of the masking.
After the remedial work I will attempt the rubber fendering, spraying a Vallejo Nato black.
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Hi Kim,
Is that a Graupner Harro Koebke in one of your photos? Looks fantastic - who built that one?
Charlie
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Hi Charlie,
Yes, it is. It belongs to Phil Locke, who is beside it. It comes all fully built and includes the motors, bow thruster and ESCs [I believe] - which you have to fit, then provide the Rx and batteries [ARTR]. It has a working water canon and LED lighting throughout; the three propellers are brass and not plastic. The central and Starboard side props rotate outwards and the Port side outwards - all when viewed from the stern. Phil ordered from a German company who were offering it at Euros 300 off the list price. After ordering it, it arrived some six days later strapped to a pallet and in a large cardboard box [very large!] - nothing wrong - and being in the EU no extra import duties to pay! Phil is going to do some minor / cosmetic upgrades from his research of the actual vessel. He seemed very pleased with it. I hope I have most of this correct.
Kim
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HI CC, you mention bubbles in your paint, could be you have water in the airline, try one of the moisture traps attached both to the compressor and to the airbrush / spraygun
Mark
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Thanks Mark,
I was not using my airbrushes for this [and they do have moisture traps in the line system], but a can of Halfords Red Oxide spray. I've used these many, many times before and never got this result - crazed. The main thing was the 'heat treatment' seemed to 'pull' the paint back into shape. The other little bubbles might have been condensation formed in the can, but they were warmed to room temperature. Appreciate the response though.
Kim
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Hello Kim,
In the picture of you holding the boat in the air, what is the model behind you on the bench. It looks like a lifeboat hull but an unusual cabin.
Is it another model of an airfix kit or is it larger as it does seem a goodly size.
Jim.
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Hello Jim,
You are right, it is another lifeboat - the 2nd Arun Class prototype with the designation 52-02 and built in 1973. It was the first lifeboat to have the 'drop' in the sheer line forward of the stern steps. She was RNLB Sir William Arnold, stationed at St. Peter Port in the Channel Islands and named after a local dignitary. The original prototype was RNLB Arun, built in 1971, but she had a 'flat' deck and the designation 52-01, also stationed at St. Peter Port. She has had three owners since being sold out of service.
As for the model, I acquired her some eighteen months ago, in a slightly sorry state and requiring attention. She is at 1/20th scale and the original builder - I think - has cut down a Metcalf BP Forties hull and deck from a 54' version to a 52' version, modified the deck and built this 'one off' design wheelhouse in thin plywood. I have so far:
- re-drawn the windows, which were all over the place, and then filed them out to the correct profiles, in places adding small pieces of wood to fill in the defects.
- Fettled and fiddled [as we do] with the bottom edge of the wheelhouse to get it to sit correctly on the deck - it now does.
- Used a slit saw to make a rectangular stern access cover, so that one can get to the rudder assembly a lot easier.
- Filled a number of small holes over the hull
- Sprayed the whole model primer grey - my preferred colour at this stage - I now await further comments!!
- Removed an area of the top wheelhouse roof area and fitted a removable panel for 'engine removal and installation' as per the actual boat
- On the small roof forward of this also removed a single small pane area for the window that goes here
- Filled various deck holes and gaps.
- Acquired a set of brass stanchions, two Buehler motors, a Forge Electronics small digital sound module with a Severn Class Caterpillar engine sound for start-up, run and close-down [which I recorded on the Newhaven lifeboat] and two ECS.
It will eventually be for the small indoor pools at Shows and also for my school classroom visits as an RNLI Education Presenter - a lot easier to carry!
Thanks for your interest. Just back from another superb [but bitterly cold] day at Dungeness with some good lifeboat modelling friends, looking at all things Shannon.
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Amongst other things, I have been doing the small corrections to the 'boot topping' - having bought an OptiVisor, I can now see EVERY little speck that needs correcting. Almost there and then mask for the 'rubber' fender to be painted, followed by the hull decals. That will be next week, as this week is a very busy one with three rehearsals and a large choral Concert which I will be singing in at the Cathedral this Saturday.
So today went to Kearsney Abbey, for a relaxing day in the sun with 17-09; he tried out his 1/72nd Severn [could not not post these photos to help inspire and encourage you with what can be done with a 9" Airfix model - courtesy of 17-09 and his 'single shaft' version of 17-21, what detail - remember its size! - look at his use of tissue and PVA glue on the 'Y' class RIB cover] and my latest acquisition of a secondhand Graupner 9 meter Klasse DGzRS 'Gillis Gunnbransson' 1/20th scale lifeboat. A superb tonic - all went very well.
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Well, almost a month has gone by and the 'remedial' work spoken of in my last main posting has only just been completed - after some five or so visits into the workshop, each time thinking 'if only I did.....'. Well, that is it now! I've attached a few photos to show the 'progress' made - when this close to such a small model you can still see little things wrong, but I'm hoping that the final varnish coat will 'cover' some of the 'ledges' created by the masking tape! All of that said, I'm pleased, so have started this afternoon masking the fixed rubber side fendering, ready to paint tomorrow or Wednesday.
Had a great time last Thursday going down to RNLS Dungeness and finishing the main photography [another 231 photos] for my Shannon DVD of static photos for modellers. Also measured all the rails' diameters, likewise the nuts, bolts and washers to produce an 'information sheet' for modellers too. Spoke at length to their Engineer, Trevor Bunney, who gave me lots of good information on the SuperCat, trailer and Shannon for talks that I am going to give in the West Midlands in May. A really good day and time well spent.
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Looking good Kim, coming along nicely.
I might just get a copy of the Shannon DVD from you when you are all done. Not building one yet but you never know.... ;)
I had a quick glance at the Ilfracombe boat when I was there last week. The boat house wasn't really open to visitors but the roller door was slightly open and someone was working in the back. I sneaked some photos under the door but didn't really have the time to wait and say hello, Sure they would have let me in if I had off. I'll be back there sometime for another look though.
I'll update my build thread this week with progress as I now have the motors in place and running.
Craig.
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Thanks Craig,
But just one word of warning - don't get an Opt-visor! If you aren't a rivet counter, you will become one and if you are already one you will become a mega rivet counter. I have a 2.5 lens front, which gives a working distance of 8" - superb! Watch out if buying one though, search the internet, I got mine for £32 [genuine article], they can easily cost twice as much. Give good 'focus' on accuracy of build and painting. You can actually see what you are doing!!
I'll add you to the list for the Shannon DVD - should be finished at the weekend.
Kim
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Well, had a great day!
Firstly, masked up the fixed rubber fendering area around the hull. Used Tamiya 6mm masking tape [what else!] cut into 2 and 3mm strips. Also used a new Swann and Morton scalpel blade, just one even pressure across the excess tape areas and remove with tweezers, easy.
Then hand painted with Revell enamel 'anthracite' [NATO black really] paint. After which I gently dried off with my small craft hot air blower [like a hair dryer - normally used for my heat shrinking on electrical wiring - got it from London Rubber Stamp Company for around £12]. This removes the tackiness from the paint surface and allowed a quick removal of the masking tape.
There were a few areas where I had 'strayed' over the masking tape, so removed these small lines with Rustin's burnishing cream [go steady as it soon takes the paint off] on a cotton bud. Then buffed and polished cream off - done!!
The next couple of days will hopefully see the application of the decals, using MicroSol - now that takes me back more than 18 years!
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That looks superb, an excellent standard!
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Hi Kim
Looking very smart :-))
Del
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Captain Fizz and Derek [Del], thanks for your encouragement.
Not such a good day today [after pruning right back a large buddleia davidii in the garden- it's that time of year!], as I attempted to start the decal fixing and fortunately had a spare set salvaged from 17-21's workshop rubbish bin a couple of years ago. The stern arching 150th Anniversary stripes decal decided to crack, even when using MicroSet [blue bottle - more of that below]. So used the spare set, having now trimmed both ends exactly to their edges. I did not attempt, at this point, to trim the carrying medium back top and bottom as the actual boats do not have this trim applied directly underneath the rubber fendering - now show me a model lifeboat that gets that right, can't remember one, it should be around 1" below. However, as can be seen from my photo below, even mine is too low [should be half that distance], but the carrying medium would not allow me to butt it any higher. To overlap it against the rubber fender and trim off later I did not want to do as I had just spotted that this new decal had 'patches' on the printing! These can be seen above the word 'Newhaven' and towards the starboard stern corner. Also the decal was starting to develope white patches - all in all a moment I could have done without. So I lifted the decal with the tip of a scalpel blade and fed some more MicroSet underneath and reset it in place. Then I over-painted with MicroSol [red bottle] and waited. It's not perfect or anywhere near as good as I wanted, but that is life! I then went ahead and applied the boat's Station name 'Newhaven Lifeboat' one that my family and I have supported for more than fifty years.
Now for a couple of corrections to my previous post. Firstly, when speaking of MicroSet I called it MicroSol. 'Set' is used to get a better adhesion for your decal and 'Sol' is used after 'Set' when you want the decal to soften even more and conform to rivet heads or sink into engraved lines. There are a number of YouTube videos covering the process. Secondly, when I said it took me back 18 years, I meant to have said '48 years'! Lastly, when commenting on the previous Post to that one, I mentioned 'optiVISOR' and spelt it wrongly, not something I like doing, so here it is correctly spelt and in the same upper and lower case lettering as used by the company.
Well, tomorrow I will spend a day relaxing with 17-09 on the cliffs above Dover, looking at new acquisitions modelling wise and also comparing my new Models by Design 1/12th Shannon hull, deck and wheelhouse against the RNLI plans. Back to decals again on 'Good Friday' - for me, I hope it will be.[/color][/color]
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Just going back into the workshop to 'touch up' the two corner upright 'rubber' fenders, as the MicroSet started to take the 'Nato black' enamel paint off - something that has not happened to me before. Meant to mention this in the last Post, but in looking at it on MBM here I could see the blue showing through! I have to keep reminding myself, it's only a hobby - not the end of the world! Well, we sometimes think it is................ and I'm not the only one, eh?
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As Kim says............... "it's only a hobby - not the end of the world! Well, we sometimes think it is..and I'm not the only one, eh?"
Well sometimes the builder is his/her own most critical critic O0............you are completing a very detailed build......we love to see the images as you progress :-)) ............. Derek
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Derek, you are right. So with that in mind, and on a dry and sunny Good Friday here in the Garden of England [Kent - South East England], I gave the gardening a miss and spent three hours this afternoon in the workshop!
Now, before I went any further with the decal application, I suddenly remembered another little detail [chuckle, chuckle oh rivet counters!] that I wanted to add on my little 1/72nd scale model, that I have never ever seen on a 1/12th scale lifeboat, the fixed rubber fendering joint coverings. So out with the reference photos on the computer, marking them onto the Airfix build instructions and then mask, paint and remove masking. I enjoyed myself and in that three hours I only managed to complete the port side of the boat. However, I did also fill the forward holes in the deck and then sand back to make the deck flat again. Then I went to spray the deck grey, and horror of horrors - I had run out of Halfords grey primer! Never been known before. A job for tomorrow.
I have added a photo below of a few home made tools and one purchased item I would not be without. I give these, just in case some of those folk reading this build are new to the hobby and wonder how we do things. Firstly, a BBQ wooden skewer, flattened off across the pointed end [not easily visible - I'll try again tomorrow with another photo], this I use to 'push home' the Tamiya masking tape into the small corners. This worked OK until I came to the stern quarter and this did not work so well; I have left the results so that you can see what I mean. That said, some will be hidden by the decal, at a later stage, and the other I will wait and see what it looks like, as on the real boats they are far from perfect - tut, tut! Secondly, there is a wooden coffee stirrer where I have shaped one end, added glue and stuck on some fine 'wet and dry' paper to use as a file type instrument. Here I used it to remove the bulk of the filler on the forward deck and then finished off with the 'flexifile', also shown, which I would not be without. These come in various grades right down to 12,000 grade - yes that is correct and not a typing error! They come as flexible nail file shapes [my one here I have just cut back the ragged edge sections to give new edges], square foam pads and even cloth types. A lot cheaper option is from a Chemist and the items used mainly by ladies to keep their nails neat. You can polish the plastic right back to its original smooth look.
During all of this process this afternoon I kept looking at the white 'boot topping' line on the spray rail towards the bow and finally succumbed to rubbing this back as it had a ridge on it! The keen eyed might have spotted this; it will get re-painted in the next couple of days. There is a word for people like me! :((
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Forgot to mention in the last Post that I have added a small styrene 'bar' across the deck hatch opening [shown here white], so that should there be a small ingress of water, coming off the forward deck, there might be a chance that most gets deflected. Hope that explains the last photo.
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BFSMP [Jim],
Where has this last eight months gone?!!
You asked a question on 24th february this year about the 'other' lifeboat in the bckground - the Arun [2nd] protoype 52-02. I was at the LBES Chatham Historic Dockyard meeting yesterday and another member brought me the original plans to have a look at, superb, so I might be starting ANOTHER build thread up on that one, once I get back from the 'Warwick' IMBS next month. At the moment I am 'all hands to the deck' [literally] on my Shannon build for the IMBS.
Regarding this Severn build, I am awaiting a very, very small RX and ESC unit from Germany that will give me 'forward' and 'reverse' and allow individual control of each shaft, so when I get that [and after the IMBS] I will start this build again too, as the winter months will give me time for a multitude of boat builds, but still with the emphasis of getting the Shannon on the water.
Kim - C.C.
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Hello, Kim..
That was a while ago. It was not long after my friend Neil had shown me pictures of a model he had built of her for the owner of the actual lifeboat, which he had renamed Samuel J and the plans looked similar.
Jim.
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As reported a short while ago on my 1/12th Shannon 'thread' I have had a busy past two months and during that time 'upset' my right shoulder joint. So to keep modelling I decided to re-visit the Severn build and seeing as I had two sets of the Airfix water-slide transfers and had been disappointed that the first ones put on had allowed the paint to show through and not look 'bold' enough at this scale, I thought I might have a go at the stern 'red/yellow' corporate striping overlay with the second set.
I decided I would use my new Dr. Slick [from FishTec] small scissors to cut the transfer both out of the sheet and then trim as close to the colour as possible. I use these for my military modelling uses, but as they have a serrated edge on one blade decided to try. I also used my newly acquired stainless Swiss tweezers from Dumont et Fils - absolutely superb! These were also purchased recently for my military modelling projects.
The stern transfer went on well and I shall proceed with the others over the next couple of weeks.
During my recent trip to the Intermodellbau 2017 in Dortmund last week I finally tracked down the very small Rx which has three ESCs built in to control my two motors and will give both forward and reverse on each shaft [tank track style control] and still has control for four servos and two lighting switches!! All at just under 12mm x 14mm and weighing in at just 0.34 grams - how's that for a product. It came from the Sol-Expert Group on www.1zu87modellbau.de (http://www.1zu87modellbau.de) and is normally used for the 1/87th scale r/c lorries and trucks. Its code is Rx43d and cost me Euros 37. However, on the small instruction leaflet I noticed it is a unit produced by DelTang [www.deltang.co.uk] in this country at much the same price.
I also purchased a miniature speaker from Tams Elecktronic [13mmx8mm] - used in model railway trains - just in case I can get a friend to build me the sound unit to power it! It's a Mini 1208 [product number 70-03023-01] is just 2.5mm thick and comes with a sound box to fix it in, bringing the depth to 6mm. The power rating is 0.25Watts, impedance is 8 Ohm with a maximum sound level of 68 dB. Being German made the quality is just wonderful, both in construction and sound.
Canterbury Coxswain
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Its code is Rx43d and cost me Euros 37. However, on the small instruction leaflet I noticed it is a unit produced by DelTang [www.deltang.co.uk] in this country at much the same price.
Dare I mention our discussions about 14 months ago re this board ............!
Did you get the board set up to your requirements or is that still to be done? If the latter you may find the downloads at the Micron site handy.
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Allnightin,
No, I had not forgotten your helpful information and I have got the downloads from the Micron site in the past and now for the product I got in Dortmund. Christian who owns and runs Sol-Expert I have got to know over the past four or five years at the Intermodellbau and he calls me 'the mad Englishman'. His English is very good and with some long discussions this unit appeared to be the right one for me and my requirements and low voltage input - time will tell! I had contacted Micron after your recommendation, but what I got was not very helpful at the time - maybe it was just me, as electrics are not my 'forte'.
Good to hear from you again.
Kim
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For those following and also doing the same conversion, or hoping to later, I forgot to mention that this series of little Rx [receivers] use DMS2 Protocol technology, so require a Spectrum DMS2 or OrangeRX Tx [transmitter] - I have just ordered the latter.
C.C.
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Again, an apology for having had such a period away from the build of this lovely little kit, especially those who are building and converting them in the same way and at the same time. However, if you follow other lifeboat builds on MBM you will see that most of my 'model boat' time has gone into the 1/12th Shannon class build - and this is only a very small part of my life!
This last Wednesday my very good friends - the Arno family - who have come across from Germany again visited 17-21, the Newhaven lifeboat featured here, with me. Paul the Coxswain and Henry the Assistant Mechanic did us proud and we had a good morning and later a fine Italian lunch nearby.
That visit has now inspired me to finish my model in the 'new' colour scheme of the exposed metal fittings throughout [to save on maintenance costs]. I have attached a few photos from those I took, including a shot of one of the new German MTU engines. I know a lot of modellers will not like this paint scheme, but I have now got used to it and thought it would make a different version on show on my stand at Shows next year. It will also always remind me of the great day I had with Arno and his 'ladies'. The build will continue once I get back from the 'Warwick' Show in a couple of weeks time.
Lastly, I am including a detail shot of 17-09's 1/12th front wheelhouse screen shot alongside that of 17-21's taken on Wednesday - see if you can spot which is which! He has even included the small wiper tensioner springs! I believe Alan used 0.9mm stainless tube - you will also see the small detail differences on the fixtures and fittings of each lifeboat.
C.C.
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SPEACHLESS......Alan, that is outstanding fella.
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State of the art that is, indeed!!!
Our visit to the Newhaven lifeboat was a highlight during our recent holiday. The RNLI crew were so friendly and answered all the questions we asked. We felt very happy as the picture shows. Thank you very much Kim, and what a magnificent means this forum is. Without it we never would have made friends with each other.
Kind regards
Arno & family
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Any updates on this build?
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Boat Captain,
No, not recently as I have spent any spare time away from other hobbies on my Shannon build. However, I have small items now to solder - micro miniature and am just about to get a new micro tip soldering iron. Once that arrives I shall take a deep breath and attempt to wire up the electrics to the receiver. During the next couple of weeks I will attempt to start the exterior detail during a couple of half days. Sorry to keep folk in 'limbo', but so much to do!
Thanks for your interest.
Kim [C.C.]