Model Boat Mayhem - Forum

Dry Dock / Shipyard: Builds & Questions => Yachts and Sail R&D: => Topic started by: petesubman on February 19, 2016, 11:08:58 AM

Title: hms victorys new paint schème
Post by: petesubman on February 19, 2016, 11:08:58 AM
What colour  is victory , terracotta, pink apparently  the paint scheme  that was used up to present day was the 1926 paint scheme ? Regards  Pete
Title: Re: hms victorys new paint schème
Post by: unbuiltnautilus on February 19, 2016, 01:25:06 PM
The easy parts are the 'new black, which is spot on to Revell Anthracite, or half way between Humbrol Tank Grey and Black, and the red, which is also a spot on match to Humbrol Satin Red, no132. The buff/ochre colour is a bit more of a problem.
It seems to be close to both Revell and Humbrol Flesh colour, but with a bit of a sandy yellow in the mix to take the pink out. We have 'match potted' our big HMS Victory with a couple of options as shown in the picture of her at Chichester last August. Around the forward gun ports you can see two patches of colour. We have since obtained half a coffee pot of proper Victory paint, but it is not really suitable for model use, being thin and glossy. We will, however do some test shots to see if we can find a decent, off the shelf match, watch this space.
Title: Re: hms victorys new paint schème
Post by: petesubman on February 19, 2016, 03:42:16 PM
That looks pretty close, i would like to see the results of the other paint you have, the programme i saw quite by chance mentioned blue decks and cream masts, regards  pete
Title: Re: hms victorys new paint schème
Post by: unbuiltnautilus on February 19, 2016, 05:38:39 PM
I have heard about light yellow masts..could be interesting..
Title: Re: hms victorys new paint schème
Post by: warspite on February 20, 2016, 10:49:14 AM
Was surprised to see your victory sitting quite close to the water at the centre gun ports, which I found happens to my sovereign (victory in another guise), so it never really got explained what the colour was supposed to be, surely the build cost were detailed and kept for the records, so the amount of paint and it's colour or the various colours that went to make up the final colour should be available.
Title: Re: hms victorys new paint schème
Post by: petesubman on February 20, 2016, 11:42:54 AM
According to the people that tested the paint layers the yard apprentices  mixed the paint recipe with linseed oil, when testing the paint from the time of trafalgar they discovered a layer of soot in the paint, the programme  was called dissapearing britain with larry lamb and maureen lipman, regards  pete
Title: Re: hms victorys new paint schème
Post by: petesubman on February 29, 2016, 08:03:22 PM
I bought a tin of revell flesh colour and athracite, the flesh colour does look very  close lm tempted to try it out on my brig hms sophie when get my tablet sorted  my take some pics, regards  pete
Title: Re: hms victorys new paint schème
Post by: unbuiltnautilus on March 16, 2016, 12:01:35 PM
In between Atlantic Convoys over last weekend, I skived off for half an hour to photograph the 'new look' HMS Victory. She is now painted in the new look 'pink and slate grey' finish and looks fine to me. Although the colours are still pretty subjective, depending on lighting conditions.
It was about 4pm and the sun was two hours away from sunset, so the port side was in shadow, while the starboard side was lit from a low angle.
Title: Re: hms victorys new paint schème
Post by: unbuiltnautilus on March 16, 2016, 12:03:38 PM
the masts, cannons on the shore and boarding ladders are still painted in the original Ochre colour.
Title: Re: hms victorys new paint schème
Post by: unbuiltnautilus on March 16, 2016, 12:05:29 PM
There are still small areas around the stern decoration with the original colour still showing. They offer the best contrast with the new scheme.
Title: Re: hms victorys new paint schème
Post by: unbuiltnautilus on March 16, 2016, 12:08:29 PM
The name on the stern is apparently now period accurate also, some took some photos of that too.
Hope this all helps. Our big Victory will get a repaint over the summer, will post some pics as it goes...
Title: Re: hms victorys new paint schème
Post by: petesubman on March 17, 2016, 07:47:53 AM
Really good pictures and i have to say it looks and feels right even down to the lettering on the stern. As you said the light conditions tend to effect the paint tones, thanks for taking the time to take the pics regards, pete
Title: Re: hms victorys new paint schème
Post by: JerryTodd on March 17, 2016, 07:40:51 PM
I'm wondering what this means for other British vessels of the period.  I'm doing an 1812 frigate - should she be those colors?  Does WHERE a ship was refitted/equipped make a difference?
What about masts and spars?  Will everything formally ocher  get this cream color?
I have no problem with the color or the reasoning/research behind it - I just want to paint my model the correct color.  :)
Title: Re: hms victorys new paint schème
Post by: petesubman on March 18, 2016, 07:09:40 AM
Not sure on that one jerry, in some cases i think it came down to how much money the captain had in his coffers so to speak , there is a preserved frigate Hms Trincomalee  at hartlepool i wonder what she looks like paint wise regards pete
Title: Re: hms victorys new paint schème
Post by: Netleyned on March 18, 2016, 10:47:33 AM
Trinc was Black and white with buff masts last time I saw her.




Ned




Title: Re: hms victorys new paint schème
Post by: petesubman on March 18, 2016, 12:46:19 PM
Your right Ned, wonder if they ever tested her paint, regards Pete
Title: Re: hms victorys new paint schème
Post by: Colin Bishop on March 18, 2016, 12:50:22 PM
Ship colours changed quite frequently in those days depending on the local circumstances and, as said above, the captain's pocket. Prior to Trafalgar I think a lot of ships didn't have stripes at all. I believe there was a sort of linseed oil based varnish that was commonly used to protect the wood.

Colin
Title: Re: hms victorys new paint schème
Post by: warspite on April 12, 2016, 08:34:14 PM
Yikes, have I got my work cut out. >:-o
Title: Re: hms victorys new paint schème
Post by: petesubman on April 14, 2016, 04:31:36 PM
This is my hms surprise  in the water for the first time today it was too weedy for props ,its taken  three years to get this point. I used geoff hunts superb book for colours and other details , i did have a chuck all the toys out of the pram moment , im  leaving her the way she is, and best of all she floats, regards pete
Title: Re: hms victorys new paint schème
Post by: Netleyned on April 14, 2016, 04:51:33 PM
Looks really good Pete.
Colours are as they should be I would say.  :-))


Ned
Title: Re: hms victorys new paint schème
Post by: unbuiltnautilus on April 14, 2016, 05:58:49 PM
And HOW many times have you watched Master and Commander, before getting the model back on the workbench to do just a bit more?!
Very nice. Don't worry about colours, Victorys new colours do not necessarily mean the same colours for a 38 gun frigate. Anyway its Geoff Hunt accurate and Movie accurate and that would be more than good enough for me, keep up the good work :-))
Title: Re: hms victorys new paint schème
Post by: petesubman on April 14, 2016, 06:13:32 PM
Your right, its been on and off the bench and i think your right about the colouring there must have been varations , have just got a book of ebay about the special effects  model  ships  built for the hornblower  tv series ,casting my eye over justinian and indefatigable, mmmm, regards pete
Title: Re: hms victorys new paint schème
Post by: warspite on April 14, 2016, 07:27:39 PM
If I do another (yea right) it was going to be indy, but I think competion would be better, bonne homme whatever or similar as long as it was near as damn it to 1/180. Bounty is the wrong scale and some others are either too expensive or not nearly as good looking.
Title: Re: hms victorys new paint schème
Post by: petesubman on April 14, 2016, 07:56:07 PM
According to author Martin Saville in his book hornblowers ships thier history and models hms bellona was used as basis for the  model of indefatigable,  have you looked at the heller victory or la soliel, regards pete
Title: Re: hms victorys new paint schème
Post by: Nemo on April 14, 2016, 10:41:10 PM
I have just finished reading the history of HMS Bellerophon (Billy Ruffian to her crew) and found this contemporary painting of her in Plymouth with Napoleon Bonaparte on board, 1815.
Based on this, your colours seem just right Pete!

 
Title: Re: hms victorys new paint schème
Post by: petesubman on April 15, 2016, 10:22:48 AM
Nice pic nemo, i suppose its how you or the painter perceive  the colour  your looking at and how the subject is lit, oh dear its all getting technical were are my rose tinted glasses, if you look at the pics unbuilt  nautilus  posted the colour looks right, the 1/48th suprise has a 1/24th brother which i will try the updated scheme on , regards  pete
Title: Re: hms victorys new paint schème
Post by: unbuiltnautilus on April 15, 2016, 11:26:31 AM
Many contemporary paintings seem to show the pale colour that Victory now wears. However, many paintings show other colours. It was often the captains prerogative as to how much to lavish on paint and decoration on their individual ships, Captain Hardy being described as a bit of a 'tight git' opted to go with the Admiralty standard colours rather than spend a bit more on something a touch more colourful. I assume Victory is wearing the Admiralty standard 'crabfat' of the day.
 Pure supposition but, I would assume Frigate Captains, able to bolster their finances with prizes of war, ( ( more than your typical Admiral lumbered with the big Ships of the Line, ) may be more keen to flaunt their hard earned wealth, by sprucing up their individual ships. I would :-)
Title: Re: hms victorys new paint schème
Post by: warspite on April 15, 2016, 08:00:45 PM
Bellerophon, being English would not be the opposition, anyway, so what is the new official colour in scale terms, ie humbrols - my Sovereign is Tamiya XF-4 as its a bit deeper in a shade to humbrol Matt 74 (Linen), which Airfix has in the manual under the OCRE areas, I prefer the Ocre as it looks newer, where as, the new colour looks like its faded with use, so then again it might be better. 
Title: Re: hms victorys new paint schème
Post by: petesubman on April 15, 2016, 10:39:14 PM
I used revell flesh colour for the chrome yellow  and revell anthracite  for the black paint work on my brig sophie as suggested by unbuilt nautilus  and it does work havent done the masts in the cream paint yet , regards pete
Title: Re: hms victorys new paint schème
Post by: warspite on April 16, 2016, 10:23:03 AM
so what numbers would those be, humbrol's matt 61 is what I use for flesh, and would be too meditereanean or fake tan coloured, (little un looks like he got sunburn  {-) )
Title: Re: hms victorys new paint schème
Post by: petesubman on April 16, 2016, 11:25:09 AM
Revell enamel matt 35 flesh colour  and  matt 9 anthracite  the flesh looks odd till ,it goes on with the anthracite  ,have a look at the pics on this thread , regards  pete
Title: Re: hms victorys new paint schème
Post by: warspite on April 16, 2016, 11:52:45 AM
so the flesh is put on top of the anthracite, so the black shows through the flesh to darken it, I was going to paint the whole of the top section with the lighter colour and mask off to paint the black, as it would not bleed through then.
Title: Re: hms victorys new paint schème
Post by: petesubman on April 16, 2016, 12:51:01 PM
The flesh colour replaces the ochre and the anthracite  replaces the black , do a test on a piece of card, regards pete
Title: Re: hms victorys new paint schème
Post by: warspite on April 19, 2016, 07:56:33 PM
having looked at the colours on the photos, the anthracite isn't that bad, but until I get to the model shop, getting the ocre is going to have to wait, plus getting a replacement spray gun is next, and the pennies for that are far and few between at the moment, so doing other bits will be on the cards first.
Title: Re: hms victorys new paint schème
Post by: Colin Bishop on April 20, 2016, 08:03:18 PM
I visited the dockyard today and spent an hour or so wandering about Victory with two friends. There is a lot more of the ship open to the public now including the poop and you exit the vessel from the hold into the dry dock. They are still working on the restoration but there is much to see all the same.

HMS Diamond was moored nearby.

Colin
Title: Re: hms victorys new paint schème
Post by: warspite on April 20, 2016, 08:23:30 PM
Notice how some have only one rope through the nub on the rear of the cannon whereas some have two with the other draped over the top of the nub. I also noted they had painted the panelling around the ships wheel, I hope that the paint comes of cleanly if they ever put it back to mahogany, would that have been done in the time of Nelson?
Title: Re: hms victorys new paint schème
Post by: Colin Bishop on April 20, 2016, 10:59:16 PM
The modern naval vessel is HMS Diamond - hopefully in an unfused condition.....

Colin
Title: Re: hms victorys new paint schème
Post by: warspite on April 21, 2016, 06:56:18 PM
now I don't get that!!!
Title: Re: hms victorys new paint schème
Post by: Colin Bishop on April 21, 2016, 07:02:40 PM
You may have missed the recent report that the electrical generation capacity of the Daring class is insufficient to meet the maximum load placed upon it with the result that the circuit breakers or whatever they are trip out leaving the ship dead in the water.

Extra generating capacity will need to be installed which entails cutting the ships open to install the necessary equipment.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-35432341

Colin
Title: Re: hms victorys new paint schème
Post by: derekwarner on April 21, 2016, 11:17:47 PM
mmmmmmmmmm  <*<........a little off thread, but this is not new.....has been kept under wraps as the design inadequacy was known during the actual build of the Type 45's & prior to the first vessels commissioning .........the blame lies on the steps of Whitehall not at Portsmouth .......extract from BBC News

"Admiral Lord West, a former First Sea Lord, said the development was "very worrying" and the MoD must have known "three or four years ago" that the destroyers had problems"
Title: Re: hms victorys new paint schème
Post by: warspite on April 22, 2016, 06:33:26 PM
Not so much a problem for Victory as she has access to land based supplies  %). (heard somewhere that so new ships were under powered forgot it was these 45's.
Title: Re: hms victorys new paint schème
Post by: petesubman on June 03, 2016, 08:35:20 PM
Got to visit  victory in the flesh this week, they are in the process of painting the masts cream , had a chat with one of the guides who explained that the original invoice had been discovered from the period up to trafalgar it listed the ingredients  and costs.The colour scheme is correct much to the annoyance of many builders of the victory that had viewed the boat, I have to say it looks right, regards pete
Title: Re: hms victorys new paint schème
Post by: Ship Worm on October 30, 2016, 10:02:46 AM
Interesting to see the comments about Victory's colour scheme. I know when I did a couple of detailed static models of her that it took some doing to get a colour that I 'thought' was right because of the difference in shade on most photographs.
Currently doing a fairly detailed model of Mary Rose which is a minefield of different opinions as to colour and decoration. Even phoned the museum at Portsmouth and apart from the colour of one block which they knew was black, they did not know the inside decoration/colour. I remember diving on her when she was still on the seabed - but that is another story.