Model Boat Mayhem

The Shipyard ( Dry Dock ): Builds & Questions => Working Vessels => Topic started by: ProfessorBong on February 22, 2016, 08:27:47 pm

Title: Graupner Fischkutter HF-408 Elke - My build
Post by: ProfessorBong on February 22, 2016, 08:27:47 pm
Right so following on from my intro in the beginners section, here i am with my first ever boat build, and it wasn't even planned. I have inherited the kit from family for me to build so some sentimental value here (see my intro post).

So my first ever boat build, only ever built Airfix etc before so although i hear that my Elke is a fairly easy build its a big step up for me! So this thread is going to be partly a build topic but also very much a "HELP" topic  O0 . So please check back if i post an update as its more than likely i be asking for help in my first build, especially as the plans are all in German (have the English instructions but still not overly clear).

So the kit is the Graupner Fischkutter HF-408 Elke, which has been in family loft for about a decade, He had everything ready but hadn't started the build, so it includes quite a lot of optional extras. And it has the paints,glues,brushes,saws,paper,knifes so im pretty much ready to go, think i just need to dig out some correct sized drill bits this week.

(http://s17.postimg.org/ftslufk5r/Photo_19_02_2016_15_16_31.jpg)

So yesterday i spent 2-3hrs just reading through the English instructions and checking the parts list off, it seems everything is 99% there, only major things i noticed missing where:
I hadn't actually decided on whether to build the boat purely static for display (due to family interest) or if to put R/C gear in it and run it (be my first), so if anyone can offer some advice there id be grateful? How can i get those missing parts for running? How expensive is the R/C gear to make it run (boat and hand controls).

After reading through i made a tiny start with cutting out the ABS parts and sanding down the edges so they are ready to go, already enjoying this! I did slip a little with knife and made a small nick in the companionway ABS, not sure if there is a way to fill or fix a small ABS nick?

(http://s7.postimg.org/9h7rnumob/Photo_21_02_2016_12_42_26.jpg)

Next it says to drill the holes, so i need to find some suitably sized drill bits tomorrow or Wednesday
------------

Please stay on this topic to help a newbie out, there will no doubt be daily questions!! Thanks
Title: Re: Graupner Fischkutter HF-408 Elke -- (Newbie Build - Plenty of Questions!)
Post by: Kipper on February 22, 2016, 09:50:45 pm
Hi Prof,
Bit of a newbie myself on here, but something I was made aware of by those more 'in the know' ....
. check how old the glue is, it may pay to buy some new anyway & buy some that is 'waterproof' just
incase you decide to 'get her wet'.  :-))
Title: Re: Graupner Fischkutter HF-408 Elke -- (Newbie Build - Plenty of Questions!)
Post by: essex2visuvesi on February 22, 2016, 10:59:36 pm
The missing tiller can be fabricated from a servo arm
The motor mount from some scrap ply
and the coupling is easily found for just a few pounds
I echo what kipper said re glue, and buy new.  Its not worth the risk of watching all your hard work fall to bits due to old glue


Electronics I would suggest looking here:-
http://www.hobbyking.com/
Title: Re: Graupner Fischkutter HF-408 Elke -- (Newbie Build - Plenty of Questions!)
Post by: ProfessorBong on February 22, 2016, 11:01:36 pm
Thanks Kipper


Funny you should mention Glue as i was actually wondering the same thing myself about its age! But whilst i am at can i ask what glues i need?
Here is what the box did have in it:
(http://s16.postimg.org/imlb7i91x/Photo_20_02_2016_15_56_17.jpg)


So if i am going out buying new glues, what types do i need? The kit obviously is a mix of ABS, Balsa, Ply and Dowel
Thanks
Title: Re: Graupner Fischkutter HF-408 Elke -- (Newbie Build - Plenty of Questions!)
Post by: Capt Podge on February 23, 2016, 12:11:31 am
Hello again Prof.

Glues.
2 part epoxy resin - this can be bought in tubes you mix in equal parts or (my preference) twin syringes with single plunger. Usually buy mine at the likes of Wilko, other outlets available.

Cyanoacrylate (superglue). I use HAFIX brand but you can buy superglue just about anywhere.

Wood Glue. I usually opt for Evostick, other brands available.

Plasweld (or Plastic Magic) - brush it on, hold for about 10-20 seconds, pieces are "welded" (melted) together. Only used for joining plastic to plastic. Made a mistake ? no problem, just brush on again and pull the pieces apart.

Canopy Glue. I use formula 560 - excellent for gluing acetate to just about anything, great for your wheelhouse windows.

Other forum members will no doubt know of more....


Regarding drilling holes - I presume you mean for the rudder and proptube  - use an undersize drill bit then ream out to the required size. Same applies to any holes you drill on the model I reckon.

Hope this helps to some degree....

Regards,

Ray.
Title: Re: Graupner Fischkutter HF-408 Elke -- (Newbie Build - Plenty of Questions!)
Post by: essex2visuvesi on February 23, 2016, 12:16:21 am
Loctite Super glue flex gel is a nice easy to use superglue.

Title: Re: Graupner Fischkutter HF-408 Elke -- (Newbie Build - Plenty of Questions!)
Post by: Norseman on February 23, 2016, 09:18:02 am
http://www.shop4glue.com/aliphatic-resin-waterproof-wood-glue-adhesive-20-c.asp

I like Aliphatic resin and the above is good supplier of most types of glue  :-))

Dave
Title: Re: Graupner Fischkutter HF-408 Elke -- (Newbie Build - Plenty of Questions!)
Post by: essex2visuvesi on February 23, 2016, 10:44:32 am
http://www.shop4glue.com/aliphatic-resin-waterproof-wood-glue-adhesive-20-c.asp

I like Aliphatic resin and the above is good supplier of most types of glue  :-))

Dave

are they back up and running? Last time I looked they were not accepting orders
Title: Re: Graupner Fischkutter HF-408 Elke -- (Newbie Build - Plenty of Questions!)
Post by: ProfessorBong on February 23, 2016, 11:37:25 am
So do i need all these glues? And which ones for which? Ie: Balsa to Balsa / Balsa to Ply / Wood to ABS / Etc


Thought i could i get away with a new tube of UHU Hart and some Revell plastic cement only? Guessing not..
Title: Re: Graupner Fischkutter HF-408 Elke -- (Newbie Build - Plenty of Questions!)
Post by: essex2visuvesi on February 23, 2016, 11:41:36 am
So do i need all these glues? And which ones for which? Ie: Balsa to Balsa / Balsa to Ply / Wood to ABS / Etc


Thought i could i get away with a new tube of UHU Hart and some Revell plastic cement only? Guessing not..


Balsa to Balsa - Hart
Balsa to Ply - Hart
Balsa - Abs - Epoxy
Wood to Abs - Epoxy
Superglue for fittings
plastic fittings on sprue - Superglue or revell cement

Title: Re: Graupner Fischkutter HF-408 Elke -- (Newbie Build - Plenty of Questions!)
Post by: ProfessorBong on February 23, 2016, 11:43:28 am
Thankyou sir, thats much easier  :-))
Although what is Sprue (did i mention i am a noob!)


EDIT: Google says its the plastic stubs etc from leftover parts, all good! lol
Title: Re: Graupner Fischkutter HF-408 Elke -- (Newbie Build - Plenty of Questions!)
Post by: essex2visuvesi on February 23, 2016, 11:44:28 am
Thankyou sir, thats much easier  :-))
Although what is Sprue (did i mention i am a noob!)


The bits that look like they come from an airfix kit
Title: Re: Graupner Fischkutter HF-408 Elke -- (Newbie Build - Plenty of Questions!)
Post by: ProfessorBong on February 23, 2016, 11:45:27 am
Thanks, found it on google eventually!
Right i shall order some glues then!  :-)
Title: Re: Graupner Fischkutter HF-408 Elke -- (Newbie Build - Plenty of Questions!)
Post by: Capt Podge on February 23, 2016, 11:50:11 am
....and don't forget, if you intend putting the model in water, use epoxy resin to seal around the rudder tube and the prop tube. The very best for that job is a product called STABLIT EXPRESS however, it is quite expensive.  (Don't allow any to get inside the tubes as it's difficult to remove)

Hope this helps.

Regards,

Ray.
Title: Re: Graupner Fischkutter HF-408 Elke -- (Newbie Build - Plenty of Questions!)
Post by: ProfessorBong on February 23, 2016, 11:52:48 am
Good plan, im undecided on water yet. But i suspect i shall make it Watertight in case i later decide to do so..
Title: Re: Graupner Fischkutter HF-408 Elke -- (Newbie Build - Plenty of Questions!)
Post by: essex2visuvesi on February 23, 2016, 12:07:00 pm
....and don't forget, if you intend putting the model in water, use epoxy resin to seal around the rudder tube and the prop tube. The very best for that job is a product called STABLIT EXPRESS however, it is quite expensive.  (Don't allow any to get inside the tubes as it's difficult to remove)

Hope this helps.

Regards,

Ray.


UHU Plus Acrylic is a cheaper and more readily available alternative to Stabilit Express.  They are both made by Henkel and from what I can see they are pretty much the same thing

Title: Re: Graupner Fischkutter HF-408 Elke -- (Newbie Build - Plenty of Questions!)
Post by: Stan on February 23, 2016, 12:25:26 pm
Almost same only difference Mega Bucks

Stan.
Title: Re: Graupner Fischkutter HF-408 Elke -- (Newbie Build - Plenty of Questions!)
Post by: essex2visuvesi on February 23, 2016, 12:36:02 pm
Almost same only difference Mega Bucks

Stan.


Interestingly tho Stabilit is cheaper than UHU plus in Finland
Title: Re: Graupner Fischkutter HF-408 Elke -- (Newbie Build - Plenty of Questions!)
Post by: Kipper on February 23, 2016, 01:22:25 pm
I use these people for my resins etc, they carry a good range at reasonable prices ..............
http://www.sheffieldfibreglasssupplies.co.uk/home/4562615629 (http://www.sheffieldfibreglasssupplies.co.uk/home/4562615629)
Title: Re: Graupner Fischkutter HF-408 Elke -- (Newbie Build - Plenty of Questions!)
Post by: ProfessorBong on February 23, 2016, 07:11:06 pm
Thanks guys


I shall get some wood glue from my brother as he has a carpentry business and has it by the buckets full.
And i will order some other glues this evening.  :-)
Title: Re: Graupner Fischkutter HF-408 Elke -- (Newbie Build - Plenty of Questions!)
Post by: Unsinkable 2 on February 23, 2016, 08:44:35 pm
Trading angels on eBay do a good deal on superglue, I use it for everything to everything with the occasional wood glue and epoxy resin. Then cover it all with fibreglass resin and then body filler and sand it smooth......... Welcome to the madness Bong.... U2
Title: Re: Graupner Fischkutter HF-408 Elke -- (Newbie Build - Plenty of Questions!)
Post by: Norseman on February 23, 2016, 10:06:59 pm
are they back up and running? Last time I looked they were not accepting orders

Last time I was up there I bought a shedload of stuff and I think he was talking about moving the factory. I have just emailed and will let you know the reply. I was hoping he would be at the Ellesmere Port show.
Title: Re: Graupner Fischkutter HF-408 Elke -- (Newbie Build - Plenty of Questions!)
Post by: ProfessorBong on February 23, 2016, 10:08:30 pm
So on your advice i have ordered:


UHU Hart
UHU Plus Acrylit
Generic CA (Medium)
And some Needles files


I wasnt sure on thin/medium or thick for CA? So i went for the middle for now, can always order some more.
Title: Re: Graupner Fischkutter HF-408 Elke -- (Newbie Build - Plenty of Questions!)
Post by: Unsinkable 2 on February 24, 2016, 12:39:22 pm
Medium you did right!
Title: Re: Graupner Fischkutter HF-408 Elke -- (Newbie Build - Plenty of Questions!)
Post by: essex2visuvesi on February 24, 2016, 12:45:59 pm
Just noticed you have an english copy of the destruction manual


Any chance you could scan and email a copy as mine are only in German
Title: Re: Graupner Fischkutter HF-408 Elke -- (Newbie Build - Plenty of Questions!)
Post by: ProfessorBong on February 24, 2016, 01:10:57 pm
Just noticed you have an english copy of the destruction manual


Any chance you could scan and email a copy as mine are only in German


There is a very good chance indeed, give me a couple of days as my scanner is in Loft and its got a NZ plug on! But its no bother as i been meaning to drag it out for some documents i need to scan anyway..
Dont ditch your German instructions though, as the English has no photos, need to read the two together to tie text to photos!
Title: Re: Graupner Fischkutter HF-408 Elke -- (Newbie Build - Plenty of Questions!)
Post by: essex2visuvesi on February 24, 2016, 01:34:28 pm

Thanks.
Mine was bought as a part started kit (Some trimming of the hull had been done)
Now there's someone doing a build as well its given me the motivation to get started :)


For drilling the holes in ABS I find these save the constant hunting for drill bits
http://www.themodelbasement.co.uk/core-rc-cr235-taper-body-hole-reamer-1-16mm.html (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Foxnovo-Universal-Expanding-Opener-Helicopter)
Title: Re: Graupner Fischkutter HF-408 Elke -- (Newbie Build - Plenty of Questions!)
Post by: ProfessorBong on February 26, 2016, 11:55:15 am
So the postie brought me a collections of Glues today, so i can get stuck in (Pun intended)..
(http://s17.postimg.org/8ew4wtpgf/IMG_5415.jpg)
Title: Re: Graupner Fischkutter HF-408 Elke -- (Newbie Build - Plenty of Questions!)
Post by: Martin (Admin) on February 26, 2016, 01:17:20 pm
 
Groan!..... Ah well, it is Friday!   ;D
Title: Re: Graupner Fischkutter HF-408 Elke -- (Newbie Build - Plenty of Questions!)
Post by: essex2visuvesi on February 26, 2016, 01:46:35 pm
I feel a bond forming
Title: Re: Graupner Fischkutter HF-408 Elke -- (Newbie Build - Plenty of Questions!)
Post by: ProfessorBong on February 26, 2016, 01:54:54 pm
Oh dear god what have i done, we are in danger of getting into a sticking sitaution!  :embarrassed:
Title: Re: Graupner Fischkutter HF-408 Elke -- (Newbie Build - Plenty of Questions!)
Post by: essex2visuvesi on February 26, 2016, 01:57:59 pm
Oh dear god what have i done, we are in danger of getting into a sticking sitaution!  :embarrassed:


Don't worry we'll stick together and fight them
Title: Re: Graupner Fischkutter HF-408 Elke -- (Newbie Build - Plenty of Questions!)
Post by: Hande on February 27, 2016, 04:50:59 pm
Thanks Kipper


[...] can i ask what glues i need?
So if i am going out buying new glues, what types do i need? The kit obviously is a mix of ABS, Balsa, Ply and Dowel
Thanks


I don't pretend I'm any sort of expert! I would offer this piece of experience, though: Whenever ABS is involved as either party in the join, PU (Polyurethan) glue is very good. I have heard too many reports about epoxy coming off ABS - even if it seems good right after glueing. Roughening up is essential with ABS (as with almost everything else!). I don't know if there is any other kind, but mine is a two-component product (50/50). To support my choice, it says on the lable that it is especially applicable to ABS.


Cheers
Title: Re: Graupner Fischkutter HF-408 Elke - My build
Post by: ProfessorBong on February 27, 2016, 10:55:12 pm
Thanks for the tip, i brought epoxy so far and will see how i get on. Never used epoxy before anyway, so its all a learning curve! lol
Title: Re: Graupner Fischkutter HF-408 Elke - My build
Post by: andrewh on February 29, 2016, 05:50:50 am
Hi, Prof


Warm welcome to MBM and the build


In answer to a very first question  - to fill holes in ABS you can make an ABS filler goop using a small airtight pot - glass or similar and chucking into it a load of cut-up bits of the ABS (trimmings, sprue bits) and putting in a dollop of the solvent plastic glue*.  Seal and leave overnight and you will have a more-or less runny liquid plastic.  Apply and leave to dry and it  becomes an integral part of the ABS


*like Polyweld or MEK**
**Methyl ethyl Ketone


Note - it also works with styrene, but not foam polystyrene!


Looking forward to the build.  I hope the plethora of adhesive advice has not left you up a gum tree.
(sorry)
andrew
Title: Re: Graupner Fischkutter HF-408 Elke - My build
Post by: essex2visuvesi on February 29, 2016, 10:54:41 am
Just adhere to the instructions and you'll be fine
Title: Re: Graupner Fischkutter HF-408 Elke - My build
Post by: ProfessorBong on February 29, 2016, 02:21:45 pm
**like Polyweld or MEK**
**Methyl ethyl Ketone


Not sure i have anything like that, but i shall look into it!  :-))  Thanks for the tip..
Title: Re: Graupner Fischkutter HF-408 Elke - My build
Post by: ProfessorBong on February 29, 2016, 02:22:28 pm
Just adhere to the instructions and you'll be fine


Enough! LOL  %)