Model Boat Mayhem

Mess Deck: General Section => Chit-Chat => Topic started by: liammedwards on April 11, 2016, 09:58:13 pm

Title: New Boating Lake (Hemel Hempstead)
Post by: liammedwards on April 11, 2016, 09:58:13 pm
Hi everyone i am new to this Forums and wanted to share some information with you all.


I am a very keen modelling and have been building scratch built boats for the last few years. 2 years ago i contacted the Local Council of Hemel Hempstead regarding model boating on whats called The Water Gardens which is located in the centre of town. A short while later the local council replied to my email and since we have been in talks about opening a new Boating club in the town.


I am looking for keen boaters to join me on my quest of starting up a small club on the waters which is set to open in August as it is currently undergoing some very much needed renovations.


If you are interested it would be great to hear from you.


Liam
Title: Re: New Boating Lake (Hemel Hempstead)
Post by: ballastanksian on April 11, 2016, 10:18:48 pm
Wishing you well in your endeavours forming the Hemel Hempstead Model boat club Liam. Keep us informed of details etc, so that if we visit, we can drop by and say hello :-)
Title: Re: New Boating Lake (Hemel Hempstead)
Post by: plastic on April 12, 2016, 06:14:04 am
Excellent - always good to get a local place to sail. I'd be interested in joining a club if it gets going. Please keep us informed.
Title: Re: New Boating Lake (Hemel Hempstead)
Post by: liammedwards on April 12, 2016, 08:04:37 am
I will keep you all updated, due to have a meeting with the Local council soon to discuss further plans.
 :-))
Title: Re: New Boating Lake (Hemel Hempstead)
Post by: NoNuFink on April 12, 2016, 08:51:28 pm
I'm interested. 
I live in Hemel and have just started boat building again.  I assume that the proposal is to use the larger lake where the fountain is.  This was a model boat lake when originally designed and I sailed on it back in th 70's.  In fact I've still got a letter giving me permission from the 'New Towns Commission' who owned it back in  those days.

However, back in those days car parking was possible in Waterhouse street and free in the car parks.  These days Waterhouse street is a bus lane & out of the question and the nearby car park is £5 even on a Sunday.  If you are going to have a meeting with the council I would suggest that car parking would need to be high on the agenda 'though some sort of permit would be a possibility I suppose.

If all else fails perhaps you could persuade the council to put a boating lake in Gadebridge park near the car park at the junction between the Leighton Buzzard Rd and Gadebridge Lane.  All together a more sensible place - there being no model boating facilities anywhere in Dacorum.

Very interested.  Will be watching closely.

NNF
Title: Re: New Boating Lake (Hemel Hempstead)
Post by: plastic on October 06, 2016, 08:36:24 am
Just to bump this thread - was there any outcome?

I see that work is well underway refurbishing all of the Water Gardens area and it may be finished soon - so has any agreement been reached with the council?
Title: Re: New Boating Lake (Hemel Hempstead)
Post by: liammedwards on October 06, 2016, 09:06:20 am
Thanks for the bump up i forgot i had posted on here. So we had a meeting back in July with the council and all was given the go ahead. We spoke about the rules and regulations and how we will enforce this on the water. We discussed about when the waters can be used and the overall maintenance of the waters edge.


The council have put a small platform in this will be where the model boating platform will be there have been talks about this being too small but as a place to put your boat in and out of the water it would be perfectly fine.


I am due to have another meeting with the council closest to completion date when they final tell me when that is just to go over a few things. I will keep you updated.


Liam
Title: Re: New Boating Lake (Hemel Hempstead)
Post by: plastic on October 06, 2016, 09:18:17 am
Cool - will users have to be members of a boat club?    Will there be an official Hemel Boating club?

Any idea if we could negotiate preferred/free parking nearest to the venue for loading and unloading of boats?
Title: Re: New Boating Lake (Hemel Hempstead)
Post by: liammedwards on October 06, 2016, 12:10:37 pm
From our last meeting our plan is to make a small boating club which anyone can join. Under the name of Hemel Hempstead Model Boat Club. (for obvious reasons)
But our aim is to try and make the Waters a free for all so anyone can come and sail there boats. I believe there are plans to have small signage up around the area which will be basics of the rules and boats that are not permitted on the water.


Also according to the council they plan to have grounds people which will work around site which will also over look activity on the grounds but that isnt set in stone.


As for the parking we are trying to fight this one although the parking is directly behind the waters you cant always guarantee parking but this is the same anywhere you go, IE St Albans parking is a nightmare to get parked near the lake.



Title: Re: New Boating Lake (Hemel Hempstead)
Post by: Klunk on October 07, 2016, 02:33:00 am
Hi Liam.  Let me know when you plan to open. I'm sure I can get a few from the Luton club to pop over for some support!
Title: Re: New Boating Lake (Hemel Hempstead)
Post by: AntV8 on February 27, 2017, 10:52:45 pm

Hi Liam,


Any updates on this?


Cheers, Ant
Title: Re: New Boating Lake (Hemel Hempstead)
Post by: roycv on February 28, 2017, 02:47:55 am
Hi I would also like to know what progress there is, parking is a big problem as mentioned in a previous contribution.  I am Secretary of the St. Albans model engineering society and any help you need regarding constitutions etc please feel free to ask.
Parking at the St. Albans lakes is very difficult at weekends not too bad weekdays.
Best of luck and keep us updated please.
Roy
Title: Re: New Boating Lake (Hemel Hempstead)
Post by: 6705russell on February 28, 2017, 03:02:36 pm
I have been involved in the Lottery funded refurbishment of the Water Gardens in Hemel, it is a shame the local council will not let you go on the water there or is it not big enough?
Title: Re: New Boating Lake (Hemel Hempstead)
Post by: Klunk on May 19, 2017, 04:46:51 am
Update on this.
There will he a grand opening in July 2017.
Liam if your about please contact me. I have had some input with the council about going forward with the club.any other people wishing to join hemel club please put your name on here and I am sure Ian will contact you soon.
Title: Re: New Boating Lake (Hemel Hempstead)
Post by: plastic on May 19, 2017, 07:06:49 am
I'm up for this - please send me details. Cheers
Title: Re: New Boating Lake (Hemel Hempstead)
Post by: roycv on May 19, 2017, 07:48:50 am
Hi, can you be more specific as to the day of the Grand opening please?  If available I would like to be there.
Best regards Roy
Title: Re: New Boating Lake (Hemel Hempstead)
Post by: Klunk on May 19, 2017, 08:59:07 am
Hi all. Did not have the paperwork at hand when I was at work last night.
Date 22 July  (Saturday)
Time. Setup from 8am official start about 10am.
Drop off and parking will inform nearer the date.
Finish time about 4pm
The new water Gardens will be opened on the above date.
This is being organised by the council,  there is parking nearby, priced at £4 for the day. The council will be arranging a drop off point near the lakeside. More on where exactly once I know. There are 2 landing stages to launch and recover, and 4ft wide footpath down one side of the water. there is limited space for tables which will also be open to the public. Water safety will be present with nominated people allowed to enter the water.
Title: Re: New Boating Lake (Hemel Hempstead)
Post by: plastic on July 10, 2017, 06:30:06 am
Is there any update on this?

The council website says only club members will be allowed but there's no links to any club.

Who do we contact?
Title: Re: New Boating Lake (Hemel Hempstead)
Post by: Klunk on July 10, 2017, 07:43:36 am
i am at a meeting with Hemel this wednesday. but there will be an opening of the water gardens in mid July. There will be a new club being formed and there will be another meeting after the opening with the council to finalise some details. I am yet to meet Ian as he has been working when the council meetings have taken place. will post up the event details on weds/thursday  so stay tuned
Title: Re: New Boating Lake (Hemel Hempstead)
Post by: plastic on July 21, 2017, 10:50:51 am
All good for tomorrow?
Title: Re: New Boating Lake (Hemel Hempstead)
Post by: Klunk on July 21, 2017, 10:59:15 am
All good  mate. Event is 11am till 430. I will be there from 8am to set up esc. Turn up when your ready. Use the water gardens south car park to drop off your boats etc. There may be spaces there or in the north carparl
Title: Re: New Boating Lake (Hemel Hempstead)
Post by: Klunk on July 21, 2017, 11:01:59 am
Short notice but if anyone local would like to turn up.

Water gardens opening at Hemel Hempstead.
Start 11am till 430pm
I will be there from 8am to set up. We have limited space for tables,  but anyone wanting to turn up and sail please free yo do so.
Title: Re: New Boating Lake (Hemel Hempstead)
Post by: ballastanksian on July 21, 2017, 08:32:58 pm
A friend of mine is popping over to have a look around with his little girl, you may get a new convert to model boats!
Title: Re: New Boating Lake (Hemel Hempstead)
Post by: Klunk on July 21, 2017, 10:16:59 pm
He is more than welcome
Title: Re: New Boating Lake (Hemel Hempstead)
Post by: AntV8 on July 22, 2017, 08:11:14 pm
Doh!! Double booked myself for today!!

Let us know if there is another sailing day soon!

Ant
Title: Re: New Boating Lake (Hemel Hempstead)
Post by: Klunk on July 22, 2017, 11:20:06 pm
You are always more than welcome to come to Wardown Park in Luton. We sail every Sunday from 10am till 12.
Title: Re: New Boating Lake (Hemel Hempstead)
Post by: plastic on July 23, 2017, 06:40:01 am
Thanks to Luton for organising the event - and providing the shelter from the rain!  :-))

It's a nice little bit of water and the launch area is ok but could have been a bit bigger. Unfortunately, all the benches are in the wrong place and the bushes are a bit tall so you have to stand in the launch area to see your boat.

It was nice to see the good variety of boats on display and on the water.

The cool little rescue boat earned its keep yesterday.
Title: Re: New Boating Lake (Hemel Hempstead)
Post by: Klunk on July 23, 2017, 08:09:21 am
Just note. Anyone wishing to join a new Hemel club,  please contact me. We will be organising a meeting in the near future with Liam. This will take the firm of an informal Q and A session  where I can give details of how we propose to go forward.  This will be the basis of the club rules etc, and hopefully we can get enough peeps to attend to make it worthwhile.  Going by the interest on the 22nd that should not be too much of a problem. I will post details about any meetings here and will organise another sail but on a Sunday soon.
Title: Re: New Boating Lake (Hemel Hempstead)
Post by: plastic on July 23, 2017, 03:06:00 pm
Tugs in action

Title: Re: New Boating Lake (Hemel Hempstead)
Post by: plastic on January 06, 2018, 12:06:03 pm
Has there been any update with regard to the Hemel Hempstead boating club?

Has the interest evaporated?
Title: Re: New Boating Lake (Hemel Hempstead)
Post by: Klunk on January 06, 2018, 12:26:34 pm
 Hi plastic. Still interest there.....but the council are bullshitting. Im not pulling any punches on this any more. Im being the right run around. The latest is its the government fault as they have to apply for some permission. Thats a complete lie as its already a designated boating pond. This is interdepartment politics. Im getting back onto them this week about the license as that has now been 4 months. Im also asking for a meeting with the senior dept heads to get this moving.
Title: Re: New Boating Lake (Hemel Hempstead)
Post by: roycv on January 06, 2018, 01:26:55 pm
Hi,Klunk, I have bashed away at this sort of thing before, the only way is to just go and sail your boats and see if 'they' can find a reason to stop you.  If they do, take photos and go to the papers they love to get involved. 
It leads one to think that there are more important things in this world to work on apart from stopping people sailing their model boats.
At St. Albans 'they' turned away our help to clear the boating lake citing Health and safety, there are some real 'berks' running things these days.
Good luck Roy
Title: Re: New Boating Lake (Hemel Hempstead)
Post by: bfgstew on January 06, 2018, 01:36:36 pm
You can't call them berks, that's an insult to berks.
I can think of something to call them, but this a family forum........ <*<
Title: Re: New Boating Lake (Hemel Hempstead)
Post by: Colin Bishop on January 06, 2018, 01:51:07 pm
I think you have to make some allowances, they are responding to the compensation culture. If a volunteer helper were to slip and injure themselves they fear they could be sued. Probably the answer is to have some sort of no liability form that leave volunteers responsible for their own actions but whether that would stand up in a court of law is perhaps a moot point.

Colin
Title: Re: New Boating Lake (Hemel Hempstead)
Post by: Klunk on January 06, 2018, 01:54:42 pm
Colin, a fine point.  But all this has been sorted. All im waiting on is a licence from the council to formally start the club. Everything èlse is comlleted. All h and s. Pollution study, club rules, public liability etc. Thus is a formal note from the council to say yes!
Title: Re: New Boating Lake (Hemel Hempstead)
Post by: plastic on January 06, 2018, 01:58:09 pm
I think if a group of people just turn up & sail regularly there there's not really much they could do to stop you wilfully boating on a boating pond.

It's all the official club red tape that causes the problems - and they just love to sit on paperwork.
Title: Re: New Boating Lake (Hemel Hempstead)
Post by: Colin Bishop on January 06, 2018, 02:08:48 pm
Sorry Klunk, I was responding to Roy's point re clearing the pond, not yours.

You may just have fallen fould of the cuts made in local governement over the years, too much paperwork and not enough people. Same thing with planning applications, there is almost always a huge backlog these days it seems.

I hope you get your permission without further delay.

Colin
Title: Re: New Boating Lake (Hemel Hempstead)
Post by: Netleyned on January 06, 2018, 02:21:51 pm
Be an Association instead of a Club
No officials, just a gang of like minded
people who like to use the pond to sail
a boat now and then.
No one can stop you turning up with
a few mates from time to time but steer clear (pun)
of fast leccies.The tree huggers hate them <:(


We do this in Cleethorpes but we do have Insurance
 Ned
Title: Re: New Boating Lake (Hemel Hempstead)
Post by: roycv on January 06, 2018, 02:30:51 pm
Hi Colin well I laid down a few rules for members to go in the lake, like go in with a sturdy stick to lean on and we used to take bouys out and I bought floating containers for these so they could help if you slipped over, but it was less than 2 feet deep at most.  We never had any problems, I do get the feeling that some people invent a worse senario as guidance.

Our last non-sailing one day trip there needed £5M insurance cover.  This was in case (it was suggested) a 30 year old with 2 children was totally incapacitated for life due to our negligence.
There is no point in putting up a notice saying taking part is at your own risk either.
This thinking is killing off activities that are essentially quite innocent.
regards Roy
Title: Re: New Boating Lake (Hemel Hempstead)
Post by: Klunk on January 21, 2018, 08:45:58 am
RIGHT UPDATE TO FOLLOW THIS WEEK...............TO ALL THOSE INTERESTED IN FORMING THIS NEW CLUB PLEASE PM ME WITH YOUR DETAILS. IN THE FINAL STAGES NOW..............FINGERS CROSSED!
Title: Re: New Boating Lake (Hemel Hempstead)
Post by: ballastanksian on January 21, 2018, 09:18:28 pm
Ooh, there has been movement! I wish you well in your innaugural meetings Klunk.

Title: Re: New Boating Lake (Hemel Hempstead)
Post by: Klunk on February 27, 2018, 03:59:50 am
ok have had a new draft if the license. all seems 9k. i am niw entering the final stages to sign all thus off. im trying to get steam boats to operate at hemel as well. this is an exercise in itself. i will ve meeting with the council rep after the 10th march to sort out the rules and regs on this one. im using BMPA guidance leaflets for steam guidance and a set of bespoke rules for use lakeside. have completed the risk assessments and sent them off.  just waiting on tge powers that be now! ps they have changed the byelaws to accommodate the club! that i did not know
Title: Re: New Boating Lake (Hemel Hempstead)
Post by: roycv on February 27, 2018, 05:11:54 am
Hi Klunk just a thought but when you meet the council guy perhaps have a typical steam boat with you? Might help remove any misunderstandings.
regards Roy
Title: Re: New Boating Lake (Hemel Hempstead)
Post by: Klunk on February 27, 2018, 06:49:45 am
Hi Klunk just a thought but when you meet the council guy perhaps have a typical steam boat with you? Might help remove any misunderstandings.
regards Roy
Hi Klunk just a thought but when you meet the council guy perhaps have a typical steam boat with you? Might help remove any misunderstandings.
regards Roy

If i can get my one certified I would! but not a bad idea, even if its just to show them how it should be done (best not me then!!)
Title: Re: New Boating Lake (Hemel Hempstead)
Post by: ballastanksian on February 27, 2018, 11:17:48 pm

Take rules for steam plant currently published for steam testing etc for your rules. It will save reinventing the wheel. Also,for the sake of the rep, these will show that such activities are covered by responsible authorities and responsible people, and live steam will pose little risk to the public.



Title: Re: New Boating Lake (Hemel Hempstead)
Post by: Klunk on February 28, 2018, 03:00:17 am
Take rules for steam plant currently published for steam testing etc for your rules. It will save reinventing the wheel. Also,for the sake of the rep, these will show that such activities are covered by responsible authorities and responsible people, and live steam will pose little risk to the public.




tank testing is different from operating in an open public space.
1. you have to have insurance
2. the boiler must have the required test certificate
3. safety procedure must be paramount when the public are around
4. a risk assessment must be approved by the local authority
5. proof that safety procedure are adhered to when operating steam.
whilst all of these have been covered in various documents already submitted, we are at the will of people who do not/will not understand. also at tge same time tge local authority is trying to reduce its exposure to being sued by the public for allowing "dangerous practices".
i am willing to do practicable information whereby people are shown how things "should" operate, but remember we are dealing with a public authority, who while they are the driving force behind the formation of the club, are alsp the same people who can close ot down just as quick. indeed there is a whole section dedicated to just that!

Title: Re: New Boating Lake (Hemel Hempstead)
Post by: Klunk on February 28, 2018, 03:21:17 am
I think if a group of people just turn up & sail regularly there there's not really much they could do to stop you wilfully boating on a boating pond.

It's all the official club red tape that causes the problems - and they just love to sit on paperwork.
plastic in answer to this i have found out that the bye laws were changed at hemel without our knowledge. like most councils this was put through as a minor change in the byelaws but it did not have a public consultation. so although the lake was a boating lake for the public, the law now states that to use the lake you must be a member of the club. (we never asked or wanted this, and never knew about it!).
as for club red tape......as im the secretary at Luton vlub i dont believe in red tape. in fact we have not had a committee meeting like other clubs in 18 months. if someone has an idea and they appproach a club official i nirmally deal with it there and then.  we only have 4 officials now so there is no need for a big meeting.  we get together discuss the issue and decide.  job done.
it works and works well. ive seen other clubs where there is bickering between sail, scale and general sailing with all sides throwing the toys out of the pram.  at the end of the day its a model boat club and no section has preference over the other.
when thus is up and running im hoping you come along and see (be aware im looking for volunteers!). if you have an idea run it past me in private, im open to all ideas from the mundane to the absurd. i might NOT agree with you but i will listen and see if you can change my mind.
Title: Re: New Boating Lake (Hemel Hempstead)
Post by: Klunk on March 21, 2018, 06:00:33 am
big update........hardcopy of final draft on its way to me. a read through by solicitors our end and all will be go. we have steam in the licence with dome operating amendments.
so all in all 9 months start to finish!
to all who are  interested in attending the club i will endeavour to get an opening sunday meeting organised once everything is signed sealed and delivered.
Title: Re: New Boating Lake (Hemel Hempstead)
Post by: plastic on March 21, 2018, 06:38:00 am
Bravo!
Title: Re: New Boating Lake (Hemel Hempstead)
Post by: Klunk on March 21, 2018, 07:13:40 am

Bravo!
you will be there i hope!