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Dry Dock / Shipyard: Builds & Questions => Navy - Military - Battleships: => Topic started by: Bob K on May 05, 2016, 10:17:06 AM

Title: HMS Royal Marine
Post by: Bob K on May 05, 2016, 10:17:06 AM
HMS Royal Marine

Having been greatly impressed by the sea handling qualities of a Dean’s HMS Bronington at Black Park recently I decided to buy HMS Royal Marine from the same ‘compact kit’ series.  A WW2 armed trawler.

What’s in the box
For £120.16 you get to build a ship just over 2 ft (619mm) long x 4 inches (102mm) beam with a good quality detailed f/glass hull, 3 sheets of plastic ready marked for cutting, 2 trays of nice standard resin and metal fittings, sheet of vac formings, brass wire, rigging thread, deck planking sheet, plus prop shaft rudder and propeller. It came with a full size colour plan, 22 page detailed booklet of illustrated instructions, and a CD of photos. 

(http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n626/bobkiralfy/HMS%20Royal%20Marine/In%20The%20Box%201_zps97jxhmmo.jpg) (http://s1143.photobucket.com/user/bobkiralfy/media/HMS%20Royal%20Marine/In%20The%20Box%201_zps97jxhmmo.jpg.html)

In addition I bought a motor, 5A ESC, coupling, and 6V 1600mA battery.

First impressions:  The hull will need very little trimming.  Fittings, as usual with Dean’s these days, will need almost no dressing to remove flash etc.  For such a little vessel there is certainly a large quantity of fittings, more than 200.

As usual with one of these I will need to carefully read all the instructions, at least twice, before formulating my plan of operations.  I am going to enjoy building this one !
Title: Re: HMS Royal Marine
Post by: big_bri on May 05, 2016, 04:02:14 PM
I love armed trawlers Bob, I was thinking of getting one of these a couple of months ago, but decided to do something a bit bigger...This is mine in 1/32 scale
(http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn280/brianc_023/IMG_2557.jpg)
I might pick one of these up from Ron a Wicksteed
Looking forward to your build mate :-))
Title: Re: HMS Royal Marine
Post by: Bob K on May 05, 2016, 04:46:22 PM
Looks really nice Brian, excellent workmanship.  It is roughly three times the length of mine, but I am sure it will prove very seaworthy.  More info please as your build continues . . .
Title: Re: HMS Royal Marine
Post by: Capt Podge on May 05, 2016, 08:34:47 PM
That seems like a fair price for what you're getting Bob - hope to drop in on this one from time to time.  :-)

Regards,

Ray.
Title: Re: HMS Royal Marine
Post by: ballastanksian on May 05, 2016, 11:03:20 PM
More interesting stuff to read about:O)
Title: Re: HMS Royal Marine
Post by: Bob K on June 12, 2016, 02:10:15 PM
Going slowly and carefully on this build.  As stated previously started with reading through the instruction book twice before removing anything from the box

Hull Preparation

Carefully cleaned the fibre glass hull.  Not much trimming required on the edges. Nice.
Next was carefully cutting out the rectangular freeing ports as these would be required for positioning the deck support strips.  A pattern of 0.5 dia holes, and finished with a fine point dremmel bit and mini diamond files.
I drilled the marked position for the rudder tube, which was then fitted with its bearing in some epoxy reinforced Milliput.
With the rudder positioned I could now determine the prop/propeller position, drill its hole, and tack/glue in place.  I also added an oiling tube to the shaft.

(http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n626/bobkiralfy/HMS%20Royal%20Marine/prop-shaft_zpstngpl1zj.jpg) (http://s1143.photobucket.com/user/bobkiralfy/media/HMS%20Royal%20Marine/prop-shaft_zpstngpl1zj.jpg.html)

Using the vac-formed motor mounting I modified it for neoprene mounting and a clamp.  I used a 2.0 mm ID tube as an alignment tool between shaft and motor, before epoxying in the mounting and prop shaft.  I may reposition the 6V 1600 mAh battery to get the best weight distribution before fitting the ESC and rudder servo.  On the plans the servo is a long way back, and I would prefer a shorter push rod if possible.

So far, going well. 
Title: Re: HMS Royal Marine
Post by: ballastanksian on June 12, 2016, 04:48:42 PM
That is a tidy installation so far Bob. I like to see a good dollop of resin, and it hasn't run either :-))
Title: Re: HMS Royal Marine
Post by: Bob K on June 12, 2016, 05:25:40 PM
Thank you.  I used a little resin around the hole, moulded the Milliput around the rudder shaft & bearing, then coated it over on the top.  Always worth spending time getting the internals accurately set up, before fitting the deck supports and deck. 

I am also planning the rest of the electrics before fitting the deck.  ie:  I would like the Planet Rx vertical with its aerial inside the wheelhouse for best reception.
Title: Re: HMS Royal Marine
Post by: radiojoe on June 12, 2016, 05:31:16 PM
Just caught up with this build Bob, as you probably already know with a fair bit of your own input Deans do make a lovely model, the hull in particular light with plenty of detail, enjoy your build Bob I'll keep following. :-))
Title: Re: HMS Royal Marine
Post by: raflaunches on June 12, 2016, 06:43:13 PM
Lovely work Bob, nice filing-everything ship shape and square. :-))
I do prefer a short servo arm rod as I often have the horrible feeling that if they are too long it'll bend the rod or damage the servo.
Title: Re: HMS Royal Marine
Post by: derekwarner on June 12, 2016, 10:47:01 PM
Very good Bob......will be following on also.....love your file set  :kiss:

Derek
Title: Re: HMS Royal Marine
Post by: Bob K on June 13, 2016, 07:39:28 AM
Nice Rolson files Derek, just like mine.  I have five sets of files, for different purposes.  From the ultra fine diamond Sealey ones used on the freeing ports, to some aggressively chunky ones like my twelve inch Dreadnaught -  which I believe was specifically designed for working on 1/528 scale models of post 1906 battleships.   %%
Title: Re: HMS Royal Marine
Post by: Bob K on June 21, 2016, 12:42:15 PM
One of the reasons for my liking Dean’s models is that I prefer working in plastic than wood any day.  Everything is pre-marked on the sheets supplied and numbered according to the instruction book and photo’s.  However, it is always best to check and measure each part before cutting.  A sharp knife and steel rule is all that is needed.

Decking and Superstructure

Rather than having the rudder servo a long way for’ard near the battery I made a wood-reinforced styrene bridge for it over the prop shaft.  Another small mod was using 3/16" Plastruct square sections for the deck supports instead of the styrene strips supplied.  Deck was cut out and trimmed to fit.  I am not gluing it in just yet, taking time to get all the coamings fitted, linkage set up, complete the wiring, and position the Rx as high in the hull as possible but away from the ESC.  Original plan was to site Rx in wheelhouse, but dropped as it would have been too close to the ESC. 

(http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n626/bobkiralfy/HMS%20Royal%20Marine/hull-innards_zpspikr7iph.jpg) (http://s1143.photobucket.com/user/bobkiralfy/media/HMS%20Royal%20Marine/hull-innards_zpspikr7iph.jpg.html)

Into the bath to establish optimum position for battery tray - merely showed that more ballast would be needed.  Some 5 min epoxy to set the tray in place. 

When all the internals are fitted and wiring tested I can glue the deck in and finish the edges with a fine filler.  Starting to look like a ship.

Title: Re: HMS Royal Marine
Post by: Bob K on June 23, 2016, 10:06:00 AM

Sorry about the loss of the last photo, Photobucket gets a bit unstable sometimes, refusing to add pictures then duplicating them.  Replacing here:-


(http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n626/bobkiralfy/HMS%20Royal%20Marine/hull-innards_zpsypcvnun5.jpg) (http://s1143.photobucket.com/user/bobkiralfy/media/HMS%20Royal%20Marine/hull-innards_zpsypcvnun5.jpg.html)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

HMS Royal Marine

Wiring completed and tested.  Everything working nicely.  I prefer to get the insides done before fitting the deck whilst maximum access is available.

(http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n626/bobkiralfy/HMS%20Royal%20Marine/wiring_zpsiyikzelg.jpg) (http://s1143.photobucket.com/user/bobkiralfy/media/HMS%20Royal%20Marine/wiring_zpsiyikzelg.jpg.html)

Deck now glued in after fitting coamings and hatches.  Measuring everything first is really important on this model as some of the pre marked numbered pieces did not fit too well, especially around the steering cover and f’o’s’cle deck area.  Unusual for these kits.  Luckily there is plenty of spare styrene sheet to remake undersized parts from.

(http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n626/bobkiralfy/HMS%20Royal%20Marine/deck-on_zpsnwbry9js.jpg) (http://s1143.photobucket.com/user/bobkiralfy/media/HMS%20Royal%20Marine/deck-on_zpsnwbry9js.jpg.html)

When glue is fully set I will apply some fine filler to the joins to tidy them up.


Title: Re: HMS Royal Marine
Post by: radiojoe on June 23, 2016, 01:42:15 PM
Hi Bob,  printed pieces not fitting is not at all unusual for Deans, which is why I say " with a fair bit of your own input" but you do get the basics of a very nice model, good job there is plenty of waste styrene I had to bin some of the printed pieces on mine as they were just too small and had to make new ones, I think the best thing about Deans kits is it teaches you how to scratch build so I thank them for that,   she's coming along nicely Bob, looks like a good sea keeping hull. :-))
Title: Re: HMS Royal Marine
Post by: Bob K on June 23, 2016, 03:25:00 PM
Thank you Joe.  This is my 4th Dean's construction and I have rarely had problems before, and then only minor occurrences which can usually be circumvented by keep reading the info and measuring before cutting.  I have also 'scratch' built models so this approach is second nature.  The term "kit" may be misleading to those familiar with Airfix etc  where you just pull a part off the sprue and stick it on.  I would say semi-kit is more accurate.  Model making skills are still required, especially planning out each stage in advance, and 'dry building' each sub-assembly to check fit, and where necessary adjust.

She has all the makings of a good sea boat, despite her size.  At £120 excellent value IMO.
Title: Re: HMS Royal Marine
Post by: Bob K on June 29, 2016, 03:53:31 PM
HMS Royal Marine

Let me make it clear that my purpose in this build log is to show how this ship can be built, with a few small ‘improvements’ of my choice, to encourage and assist others who may be interested in doing so.  It is not a difficult build, but care and good planning are essential.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Finishing off the f’o’c’sle area and deck edges with a fine filler was fairly straightforward.
A fair amount of it needed to smooth the inner hull f/glass texture. 

(http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n626/bobkiralfy/HMS%20Royal%20Marine/focsle-break_zps79kcgtux.jpg) (http://s1143.photobucket.com/user/bobkiralfy/media/HMS%20Royal%20Marine/focsle-break_zps79kcgtux.jpg.html)

Next was the large forward hatch. I decided to use a lip at the rear and two magnets with steel keeper plates at the for’ard corners. 
Keepers were conduit knockouts from a slimline conduit box.  Just the right size and thickness.


(http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n626/bobkiralfy/HMS%20Royal%20Marine/hatch-cover_zpscnxjhaaf.jpg) (http://s1143.photobucket.com/user/bobkiralfy/media/HMS%20Royal%20Marine/hatch-cover_zpscnxjhaaf.jpg.html)

Before starting on the superstructures, around 120 bulwark supports had to be constructed.  Rather than cut tiny pieces from the 0.5 mm styrene, as per the instruction book, I decided to use 1/16” Plastruct tees and a 1/16 x 1/16 square section for the ‘wooden” handrail above. 
I just felt I could make a neater job that way.

Careful planning on spray painting is required, even at this early stage.  I aim to use the same method as previous ships (See my HMS Amazon thread (http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,32820.msg344018.html#msg344018)) in getting the hull prepared, masking access holes and prop etc.  Superstructure to be built as sub-assemblies, and fittings mounted on card using double sided tape with legend giving their assembly part numbers for identification.


Title: Re: HMS Royal Marine
Post by: Bob K on June 30, 2016, 03:38:50 PM
HMS Royal Marine, initial sea trials

With innards installed and tested, and with basic deck-work fitted it was time to progress from bath to initial sea trials.  Purpose was to test seagoing operation and ballasting.  For the purposes of this test a temporary cover was fitted over the superstructure coamings. 
In the bath it is not that easy to see the exact waterline on a deeply curving hull, nor check how the hull rides under power.

(http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n626/bobkiralfy/HMS%20Royal%20Marine/BP-jun16%20b_zps5rh9xtcy.jpg) (http://s1143.photobucket.com/user/bobkiralfy/media/HMS%20Royal%20Marine/BP-jun16%20b_zps5rh9xtcy.jpg.html)

(http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n626/bobkiralfy/HMS%20Royal%20Marine/BP-jun16%20d_zpsbnhxwle9.jpg) (http://s1143.photobucket.com/user/bobkiralfy/media/HMS%20Royal%20Marine/BP-jun16%20d_zpsbnhxwle9.jpg.html)

Lead shot ballast in small zip-loc bags to make it easier to trim.  I decided to remove 150gm from the forward section and 50gm from the aft.  Rides better in the water.
Steering is super sensitive with the huge rudder.  I am going to need alter the linkages before putting the top hamper in place.

All in all a successful two hour sailing session.

Title: Re: HMS Royal Marine
Post by: Bob K on November 24, 2016, 03:26:08 PM
HMS Royal Marine.

A long enforced pause in all dockyard work here, but progress on this model is finally underway again.  Hull sea trials went well, everything tested out and primary ballasting done.  I have made a start on the superstructure, which will be in sub-assemblies to facilitate spray painting.

Forward gun platform mounting needed some improvisation as illustrations and parts had got out of step since the original kit.  However, no worries. Some 20mm tube and Plastruct sections solved it.  The platform and lip were straightforward.

The main superstructure parts required a lot of measure (and sometimes remake) before cutting. Additional packing had to be made up as it was about 4mm wider than the coaming box already installed on the deck.  No real problem, but it underlines the need to plan well ahead and take extra care.

(http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n626/bobkiralfy/HMS%20Royal%20Marine/RM-24-11-16%20a_zps0xxlrwct.jpg) (http://s1143.photobucket.com/user/bobkiralfy/media/HMS%20Royal%20Marine/RM-24-11-16%20a_zps0xxlrwct.jpg.html)

Before cutting out the various parts with windows I needed to cut these small openings with great care - before separating the parts including them.  I found that a sheet of thin foam board underneath helped the Xacto knife work as the lattices of 22 cut-outs are quite fragile. Small incisions, made away from the corners.

(http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n626/bobkiralfy/HMS%20Royal%20Marine/RM-24-11-16%20b_zps4xjf5km2.jpg) (http://s1143.photobucket.com/user/bobkiralfy/media/HMS%20Royal%20Marine/RM-24-11-16%20b_zps4xjf5km2.jpg.html)

Successful, and will only need minor needle file dressing afterwards.

Title: Re: HMS Royal Marine
Post by: derekwarner on November 24, 2016, 09:18:13 PM
Watching on Bob....she looks fine in the water :-)).....are all of the superstructure building walls pre numbered? ... as I see two different sized  sections however both marked as No 115  O0

Derek
Title: Re: HMS Royal Marine
Post by: ballastanksian on November 24, 2016, 09:24:28 PM
She's building up nicely Bob. I agree with your comments earlier about parts fit, I made a few new plates for the superstructure on my M15 Monitor, nothing seriously complex to make.
Title: Re: HMS Royal Marine
Post by: Bob K on November 24, 2016, 09:38:35 PM
Astute observation Derek, as always.   :-))

Yes there are two parts marked "115" but as they are clearly identified on the instructions booklet photos as to where they go and it was quite obvious in practice.  NB:  The lower row of parts is for the wheelhouse, the upper row the chart room above.  In all fairness this kit was originally designed in 1990 and has been through several improvement iterations since. The original build sequence photos however remain 1990. It would probably require a new 'from scratch' build to re-photograph and re-annotate the instructions booklet and styrene. 

In practice by reading everything carefully and 'measure before cut' it all works out.
Title: Re: HMS Royal Marine
Post by: Capt Podge on November 24, 2016, 11:06:25 PM
It's good to see you back on this one Bob - and you have my full sympathy with regard to all those window/door cut-outs. They can be a bit of a nightmare but, taking one's time usually produces the required results.  :-)

Regards,

Ray.
Title: Re: HMS Royal Marine
Post by: Bob K on November 26, 2016, 05:36:29 PM
HMS Royal Marine.

Some very delicate needle file work to dress those 22 tiny cutouts.  Phew!

From this point onwards I am cutting all parts oversized and gradually trimming down to ensure a good fit.  Taking time to let adhesives dry solidly before final joint trimming, then going on to the next group of parts.  So don’t expect daily updates.

Wheelhouse and Bridge both coming on nicely.

The steering cover needed quite a bit of packing to become a good fit over the steering coaming box.  To hold the cover against the rear of the coaming box I used neoprene blocks attached to the underside of the cover with impact adhesive.

(http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n626/bobkiralfy/HMS%20Royal%20Marine/rm-26-11-16_zpse8wyffhf.jpg) (http://s1143.photobucket.com/user/bobkiralfy/media/HMS%20Royal%20Marine/rm-26-11-16_zpse8wyffhf.jpg.html)

Glazing will go in after spraying of course.  I intend fitting LED's.

More edge bulkheads for the bridge deck next, then I will use 1/16” Plastruct tees on their inside faces.  The same as I used on the hull bulwarks.  After that I will start work on the after part of the main superstructure.
Title: Re: HMS Royal Marine
Post by: ballastanksian on November 26, 2016, 09:54:47 PM
Excellent progress Bob. Full marks for window fettling.
Title: Re: HMS Royal Marine
Post by: Bob K on November 28, 2016, 10:04:47 PM
HMS Royal Marine.

Quick update on the wheelhouse and bridge decks:

Just completed adding the bulkhead supports using 1/16” Plastruct tees on the inside faces, tapered towards to top.  1/16” Plastruct U channels used as rails, plus some 0,5mm styrene on the outside faces of the bulkhead supports. 
Decks dry assembled for the photo below.

(http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n626/bobkiralfy/HMS%20Royal%20Marine/RM-28-11-16%20b_zpsukdjldgi.jpg) (http://s1143.photobucket.com/user/bobkiralfy/media/HMS%20Royal%20Marine/RM-28-11-16%20b_zpsukdjldgi.jpg.html)

Next up will be working on the rear part of the main superstructure.  Looking ahead the top of the funnel is just a hole, so I will have to fabricate a funnel top, including a slightly domed grille. 

Title: Re: HMS Royal Marine
Post by: ballastanksian on November 28, 2016, 10:11:34 PM
Looking good Bob. The bridge sturcture is quite large for the size of vessel, but proably much more practical then earlier ones.
Title: Re: HMS Royal Marine
Post by: raflaunches on December 04, 2016, 05:49:11 PM
Hi Bob


Nice work with the bridge windows- I had the same experience with the Dreadnought's too. The laser cut ones in the new M-33 and M-15 kits are a god-send! :-))
Title: Re: HMS Royal Marine
Post by: Bob K on December 04, 2016, 06:23:47 PM
Thank you Nick. 
Just doing the four 20mm gun tubs plus lifeboat and life-raft decks, the last of the styrene sheet parts.  Coming along well.  She does sail nicely.
Title: Re: HMS Royal Marine
Post by: raflaunches on December 04, 2016, 06:34:21 PM
Glad to hear Bob, I've just started a similar sized model and it's amazing what you can get into a hull that small which wasn't available not that long ago. :o
Title: Re: HMS Royal Marine
Post by: Bob K on December 07, 2016, 11:48:10 AM
HMS Royal Marine.

Another update:  Four 20mm gun tubs made up, mainly fabricated from the marked styrene supplied, but with Plastruct tees and thin sheet strip as per the bridge bulkheads. 

A good tip:  The top of a Pritt Stick makes an ideal former for making these.  Gun sub assemblies made up.  I have to say the quality of Dean’s diecast and resin fittings is such that very little dressing was required.

Next was the four sub decks for the lifeboats and life rafts from the styrene parts in the kit.

(http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n626/bobkiralfy/HMS%20Royal%20Marine/RM-7-12-16%20a_zpswlii0vwe.jpg) (http://s1143.photobucket.com/user/bobkiralfy/media/HMS%20Royal%20Marine/RM-7-12-16%20a_zpswlii0vwe.jpg.html)

(http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n626/bobkiralfy/HMS%20Royal%20Marine/RM-7-12-16%20b_zps3ogkxgwh.jpg) (http://s1143.photobucket.com/user/bobkiralfy/media/HMS%20Royal%20Marine/RM-7-12-16%20b_zps3ogkxgwh.jpg.html)

That’s all the parts from the styrene sheets.  Next will be the two tall ventilators and the funnel.  I have around 150 cast parts, resin and white metal.  I will be making up several strips of foam board 60 mm wide with 40 mm double sided tape.  Loose parts will be stuck to these for spraying with part number legend strips concealed under Postit stickers. The stickers can then be peeled off after spraying to leave legends intact.

Title: Re: HMS Royal Marine
Post by: spooksgone on December 07, 2016, 08:15:02 PM
Its coming along nicely now. Some really nice building on here.
Title: Re: HMS Royal Marine
Post by: ballastanksian on December 07, 2016, 09:36:29 PM
She's starting to look very nice Bob. The Tee pieces do make the tubs look busier. I look forward to your next installment.
Title: Re: HMS Royal Marine
Post by: Capt Podge on December 07, 2016, 10:51:23 PM
Loose parts will be stuck to these for spraying with part number legend strips concealed under Postit stickers. The stickers can then be peeled off after spraying to leave legends intact.

That is a very, very good tip Bob - thank you for sharing. :-))

Regards,

Ray.
Title: Re: HMS Royal Marine
Post by: Dean's Marine on December 08, 2016, 10:23:53 AM
HMS Royal Marine.




(http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n626/bobkiralfy/HMS%20Royal%20Marine/RM-7-12-16%20b_zps3ogkxgwh.jpg) (http://s1143.photobucket.com/user/bobkiralfy/media/HMS%20Royal%20Marine/RM-7-12-16%20b_zps3ogkxgwh.jpg.html)

I am sure the 4" gun cab  is only shown this way for trial fitting ?
here is my one
just checking.
will you have it sailing for the xmas open days ??.if its to choppy we can put in on the deck of the Agincourt
 Regards
 Deans marine
Title: Re: HMS Royal Marine
Post by: Bob K on December 08, 2016, 11:14:45 AM
Having to massively improvise as the parts and pictures are way out of step.  ie:  There was no means of mounting the gun platform supplied so I had to make something up.  I had assumed the new gun hood was a later version than the instructions picture.  Had I mounted it on end on the cross frame in your last photo the breech would have been a scale ten feet off the deck, looking way off scale.  Nothing like the pictures

I have a lot of spraying to do before fitting sub-assemblies, so next weekend is far too early for sailing her, or using her as a lifeboat for HMS Agincourt.  However, I will be at the Open Day as promised.
Title: Re: HMS Royal Marine
Post by: unbuiltnautilus on December 08, 2016, 06:40:11 PM
I believe it is a Canadian mounting/shield, and does look a bit 'odd' compared to the usual RN pattern shield. You may notice the low barrel height that you currently have,  when you start adding the stanchions.
Title: Re: HMS Royal Marine
Post by: derekwarner on December 08, 2016, 08:03:55 PM
Bob....history does confirm that with all Ships of War.......the ink was not yet dry on the official specification or plans when the Admirals :police: decided on yet another new revision to the build or design  O0

This was especially true with the armament's and associated weaponry.....

This however was in earlier years when men in blue suits with gold buttons & braid made decisions......sadly today it is those persons  <*< in pin stripe suits sitting shoreside [probably have never seen water or a warship] who make decisions based upon costs

Derek
Title: Re: HMS Royal Marine
Post by: Bob K on December 08, 2016, 10:57:12 PM
HMS Royal Marine.

OK guys, here is my quandary.  The gun body, including trunnions, was an excellent fit in the recesses for them in the resin hood as I have it.  To mount the hood on end would have needed filler to mount the barrel.   Using the cruciform base shown in the paperwork the C/L of the gun would then have been a scale nine foot above the deck.

Sorry, it just looked odd that way, especially when using 1/96 scale crew alongside it, and it is well clear of stanchions.

Below is a picture of a similar 4 inch mounting of the same era.  Mine is a compromise, but my crew can reach it.

(http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n626/bobkiralfy/HMS%20Royal%20Marine/4%20inch%20gun%20mounting_zps09kkzjjx.jpg) (http://s1143.photobucket.com/user/bobkiralfy/media/HMS%20Royal%20Marine/4%20inch%20gun%20mounting_zps09kkzjjx.jpg.html)     
           
(http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n626/bobkiralfy/HMS%20Royal%20Marine/4%20inch%20gun_zpsjospfuah.jpg) (http://s1143.photobucket.com/user/bobkiralfy/media/HMS%20Royal%20Marine/4%20inch%20gun_zpsjospfuah.jpg.html)
Title: Re: HMS Royal Marine
Post by: gingyer on December 09, 2016, 02:15:45 AM
Bob,
The gunners stood on a platform begin the gun :-))
http://https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/QF_4_inch_Mk_XIX_naval_gun# (http://https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/QF_4_inch_Mk_XIX_naval_gun#)


If you added the platform it would then let your crew fire it....... I think.....
Title: Re: HMS Royal Marine
Post by: gingyer on December 09, 2016, 01:50:05 PM
Sorry that links wrong....


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/QF_4_inch_Mk_XIX_naval_gun (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/QF_4_inch_Mk_XIX_naval_gun)
Title: Re: HMS Royal Marine
Post by: Bob K on December 09, 2016, 02:19:06 PM
Hi Gingyer.  There is no mini platform, and even with one having the breach nine feet off the deck is not a realistic option for any QF wide arc training mounting.  It needs to be operated by a team direct from the main platform it is mounted on.
Title: Re: HMS Royal Marine
Post by: gingyer on December 09, 2016, 03:57:04 PM
Bob,
a bit lost when you say no platform you probably need to make it, it won't be in the kit.
From the deck the breech would of been about 8-9' off the deck.
the platform is built into the shield and turns with the gun, so the ammo crew on the main deck pass the rounds to the gun crew standing on the platform.


early/ older 4" guns are shown in the picture you posted earlier these had a box like square shield around them these dated from WW1 and used on Flower class corvettes and some armed trawlers.
later 4" guns have the distinctive rounded shield (as per yours in the kit and these were fitted to the military class) these had their breech mounted near enough in mid air, the breech and associated equipment were moved higher for use in engaging Aircraft so the breech could swing lower allowing the gun to elevate.


this is a link to a drawing of one of the later marks it shows the high position of the breech.
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:QF_4_inch_Mk_XVI_gun_on_Mk_XX_mounting_rear_view_diagram.jpg (https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:QF_4_inch_Mk_XVI_gun_on_Mk_XX_mounting_rear_view_diagram.jpg)


this link will show you a good picture of the rear of the twin version of the gun
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QF_4_inch_Mk_XVI_naval_gun#/media/File:Cruiser_Guns%27_Crews._May_1943,_on_Board_HMS_Jamaica_and_Berwick._A16318.jpg (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QF_4_inch_Mk_XVI_naval_gun#/media/File:Cruiser_Guns%27_Crews._May_1943,_on_Board_HMS_Jamaica_and_Berwick._A16318.jpg)
you can see the hight off the parts a bit clearer and also give you a better idea with the gun crew in place


castle class corvettes and other ships were fitted with the same variants,
John haynes built a 1/192 version for a castle class and you can see it here
http://www.johnrhaynes.com/caistorcastle/caistor4.html#imageguide (http://www.johnrhaynes.com/caistorcastle/caistor4.html#imageguide)


hope this helps  :-))
Title: Re: HMS Royal Marine. Funnel
Post by: Bob K on December 10, 2016, 03:26:22 PM
HMS Royal Marine.  Funnel

A bit of additional funnel detailing underway.  I could have left just a hole at the top (awkward to paint right down through) but looked into funnel tops of similar vessels of the same era.  A simple sleeve and ring with sealing cap at bottom, together with a central support strip notched for brass wire. 
My preference. I think it looks better from above than the end of a tube.

(http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n626/bobkiralfy/HMS%20Royal%20Marine/RM-10-12-16%20a_zps65dtrjzu.jpg) (http://s1143.photobucket.com/user/bobkiralfy/media/HMS%20Royal%20Marine/RM-10-12-16%20a_zps65dtrjzu.jpg.html)

Paint Preparation

As mentioned before, I am thinking ahead for spray painting by building in sub-assemblies with individual white metal and resin parts mounted onto foam board strips with double sided tape, grouped according to colour.  Part I.D. references are marked on the foam board edge, which will be temporarily covered in Post It notes during spraying so that part references are retained for fitting.

To my mind this saves a lot of hassle as you can take a part from the tray, clean up its edges etc, stick it on the board and mark its reference at the same time.

P(http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n626/bobkiralfy/HMS%20Royal%20Marine/RM-10-12-16%20b_zpsmcg1atyy.jpg) (http://s1143.photobucket.com/user/bobkiralfy/media/HMS%20Royal%20Marine/RM-10-12-16%20b_zpsmcg1atyy.jpg.html)  (typical)

PS:  As to other gun types - only “ used on Flower class corvettes and some armed trawlers”, note this IS an armed trawler, which did not have additional platforms or mega high breeches.  A simple workaround due to parts that have evolved more than the instructions. 

Title: Re: HMS Royal Marine
Post by: ballastanksian on December 10, 2016, 07:29:04 PM
Thanks for the tip using Postit notes a temporary masking. Of course, the adhesive is weak enough to stop them from becoming permanently stuck to computer screens or your forehead when playing that guessing game  :} That is another idea to write down.
Title: Re: HMS Royal Marine
Post by: RAAArtyGunner on December 10, 2016, 08:58:52 PM
Bob,
a bit lost when you say no platform you probably need to make it, it won't be in the kit.
From the deck the breech would of been about 8-9' off the deck.
the platform is built into the shield and turns with the gun, so the ammo crew on the main deck pass the rounds to the gun crew standing on the platform.


early/ older 4" guns are shown in the picture you posted earlier these had a box like square shield around them these dated from WW1 and used on Flower class corvettes and some armed trawlers.
later 4" guns have the distinctive rounded shield (as per yours in the kit and these were fitted to the military class) these had their breech mounted near enough in mid air, the breech and associated equipment were moved higher for use in engaging Aircraft so the breech could swing lower allowing the gun to elevate. Also, during firing, the breech when recoiling at high elevations, would clear the deck/platform. Hence no encumbrances at rear of the gun. Otherwise the gun was limited in the amount of elevation, (Quadrant Elevation).


this is a link to a drawing of one of the later marks it shows the high position of the breech.
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:QF_4_inch_Mk_XVI_gun_on_Mk_XX_mounting_rear_view_diagram.jpg (https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:QF_4_inch_Mk_XVI_gun_on_Mk_XX_mounting_rear_view_diagram.jpg)


this link will show you a good picture of the rear of the twin version of the gun
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QF_4_inch_Mk_XVI_naval_gun#/media/File:Cruiser_Guns%27_Crews._May_1943,_on_Board_HMS_Jamaica_and_Berwick._A16318.jpg (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QF_4_inch_Mk_XVI_naval_gun#/media/File:Cruiser_Guns%27_Crews._May_1943,_on_Board_HMS_Jamaica_and_Berwick._A16318.jpg)
you can see the hight off the parts a bit clearer and also give you a better idea with the gun crew in place


castle class corvettes and other ships were fitted with the same variants,
John haynes built a 1/192 version for a castle class and you can see it here
http://www.johnrhaynes.com/caistorcastle/caistor4.html#imageguide (http://www.johnrhaynes.com/caistorcastle/caistor4.html#imageguide)


hope this helps  :-))
Title: Re: HMS Royal Marine
Post by: Bob K on December 10, 2016, 10:59:14 PM
HMS Royal Marine.

I am trying to do a build log here, before we all get carried away into the practicalities of high angle antiaircraft weapons. 
Below is a photograph of HMS Sapper, sister ship to armed trawler HMS Royal Marine.

(http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n626/bobkiralfy/HMS%20Royal%20Marine/HMS%20Sapper_zpsqjmnml4m.jpg) (http://s1143.photobucket.com/user/bobkiralfy/media/HMS%20Royal%20Marine/HMS%20Sapper_zpsqjmnml4m.jpg.html)
 
Note there is no ‘loading’ platform, nor is the breach many feet above the heads of any gun crew - which would have made it effectively inoperable.  For convoy and coastal duties the four inch gun was for defence against surface vessels, principally submarines. Elevation was probably in the range of -6 to +20 degrees.  My barrel height closely matches this, and is well clear of stanchions.
As you can see this is a more than practical arrangement which I believe I have closely replicated, within the limitations of parts supplied.
Title: Re: HMS Royal Marine. Painting
Post by: Bob K on December 14, 2016, 01:32:10 PM
HMS Royal Marine.  Painting

Everything thoroughly cleaned before mounting.  Sub-assemblies made up to suit spraying access to all faces.  Loose items mounted on strips with part references covered for spraying.  Planning this effectively is half the battle.  Wait until nice day outside then start with good old Halfords grey Primer rattle can to effect a good bond for the final Tamiya acrylic paints.  ie: GRP/white metal/resin/styrene.

(http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n626/bobkiralfy/HMS%20Royal%20Marine/spray%201_zps1wekfewc.jpg) (http://s1143.photobucket.com/user/bobkiralfy/media/HMS%20Royal%20Marine/spray%201_zps1wekfewc.jpg.html)

Acrylics will be sprayed in my shower-curtained spray area in the workshop as this requires spray gun and compressor.  A three quarter circle of shower rail on the ceiling and two large cheap disposable shower curtains that go over the workbench and almost down to the floor.  Face mask always used indoors.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Detail of 4 inch gun, modified to measured photographs of sister ship and similar mountings.

(http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n626/bobkiralfy/HMS%20Royal%20Marine/spray%20detail_zpstamkjkk6.jpg) (http://s1143.photobucket.com/user/bobkiralfy/media/HMS%20Royal%20Marine/spray%20detail_zpstamkjkk6.jpg.html)

It now looks more like it should, IMHO, especially alongside 1/96 scale crew figures.
Title: Re: HMS Royal Marine
Post by: big_bri on December 14, 2016, 03:42:02 PM
Begining to look the part now Bob, well done matey :-))
Title: Re: HMS Royal Marine
Post by: Bob K on December 14, 2016, 03:59:15 PM
Thanks Brian.  At this point I am trying to show how I prepare for spray painting, whilst I can still get to all the surfaces I need to cover.
Title: Re: HMS Royal Marine, painting
Post by: Bob K on December 28, 2016, 08:25:23 PM
HMS Royal Marine.  Painting

Some basic painting techniques in this stage.  Whilst obvious to many it may be of interest to others as this aspect is often skipped in build logs.

To get a hull colour approaching what I needed I had to mix Tamiya XF-19 (light grey) with XF-2 (white) eventually reaching a 50/50 mix to get it light enough.  I find a 20% addition of Tamiya thinners works well for my airbrush.  Airbrushed topcoat applied, three light coats 20 minutes apart. 

A few days to let the paint dry solidly, then applied Model Technics Trim Line tape to define the under hull red lead edge.  Sticks nicely and takes curves / detail well when burnished down.  Next used green Frog Tape partly overlapping the Trim Line and some white bin liner to protect the model beyond this area.  Halfords Red Oxide rattle can is a good colour match for anti-fouling.

(http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n626/bobkiralfy/HMS%20Royal%20Marine/red%20lead_zpstkhknh6s.jpg) (http://s1143.photobucket.com/user/bobkiralfy/media/HMS%20Royal%20Marine/red%20lead_zpstkhknh6s.jpg.html)

Usual pause to let the paint dry, then more Trim Line tape to mark out for the light blue camouflage areas.  Tamiya do nothing like this colour so used Humbrol matt 89.  Uncomplicated areas involved so brush applied.  Not keen on airbrushing enamel as cleaning the equipment afterwards is a real pain.

(http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n626/bobkiralfy/HMS%20Royal%20Marine/painting_zpso1cxkncy.jpg) (http://s1143.photobucket.com/user/bobkiralfy/media/HMS%20Royal%20Marine/painting_zpso1cxkncy.jpg.html)

Between paint drying I made up the stand from dowelled MBF using the templates in the instructions, plus some 1.6mm MIL Neoprene affixed with impact adhesive.  Note one of the loose parts mounting strips with ident masking removed.  Instead of using the planking decals supplied I decided to use very thin sheets of wood veneer instead.  Planking lines applied in pencil.

Now I can start putting it all together.




Title: Re: HMS Royal Marine
Post by: ballastanksian on December 28, 2016, 08:52:19 PM
I hate cleaning airbrushes at the best of times but can see the issue with enamels and the need for spraying white spirit about.
Title: Re: HMS Royal Marine
Post by: Klunk on December 28, 2016, 08:57:43 PM
Hi Bob.  Thanks for the info on muses and thinners. Always handy to know other people's ratios with the different manufacturers  of paint
Title: Re: HMS Royal Marine
Post by: Bob K on December 30, 2016, 11:36:55 AM
HMS Royal Marine

With most of the work on detail parts done as part of the painting processes it is now mostly a case of identifying where the cast and metal fittings go from the plans, and fixing them in place.  A few bits of minor detail painting to do, mostly prior to removing parts from spraying boards. Again, easier to do before assembly.  Coming together quite quickly now.

(http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n626/bobkiralfy/HMS%20Royal%20Marine/stern%20detail_zpsl0quafn6.jpg) (http://s1143.photobucket.com/user/bobkiralfy/media/HMS%20Royal%20Marine/stern%20detail_zpsl0quafn6.jpg.html)

The masts will be interesting, tripods of thin brass tubes.  I may make up a small jig for this so I can silver solder the joints.


Title: Re: HMS Royal Marine
Post by: Klunk on December 30, 2016, 11:42:55 AM
A quick question in general here. So I apologise in advance Bob , but were life rafts etc really yellow during the war?  I habe seen many modelled warships from wwii with yellow ones and just querying
Title: Re: HMS Royal Marine
Post by: Bob K on December 30, 2016, 12:01:55 PM
A quick question in general here. So I apologise in advance Bob , but were life rafts etc really yellow during the war?  I habe seen many modelled warships from wwii with yellow ones and just querying

Not 100% sure Klunk.  The photos and illustrations show a kind of off white, but RAF ones were more of a yellowish orange.  Looking on Goggle I can see everything from khaki to yellow and brown.
Title: Re: HMS Royal Marine
Post by: Klunk on December 30, 2016, 12:15:51 PM
That's what I've seen but nothing definitive
Title: Re: HMS Royal Marine, nearly complete
Post by: Bob K on January 02, 2017, 03:11:50 PM
HMS Royal Marine, nearly complete

Following Klunk’s reply I did a lot more net trawling on life raft colours. Very little info out there, but I did find something that said in peacetime of that era the rafts were carried in their normal colour, but tended to be painted to match the superstructure in wartime.  Also looking at a lot of photos of WW2 model warships this seems to be what most modellers have done.  So, I have repainted them a slightly different shade of light grey.

More of the pre-prepared painted fittings are going aboard.  I normally use etched stanchions, but thought I’d try the Dean’s supplied die-cast ones with 0,5 soft brass wire.  Drilling holes in decks is easy with a tiny archimedes drill.  Opening out the holes in the cast stanchions not so easy, but all part of the part dressing operation.  Pre-painted, then assembled with lengths of rail, fitting and gluing as I went.  Not too many on this ship !

Photos of progress so far :

(http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n626/bobkiralfy/HMS%20Royal%20Marine/RM%202-1-17%20a_zpsvp6wicpl.jpg) (http://s1143.photobucket.com/user/bobkiralfy/media/HMS%20Royal%20Marine/RM%202-1-17%20a_zpsvp6wicpl.jpg.html)

(http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n626/bobkiralfy/HMS%20Royal%20Marine/RM%202-1-17%20b_zpsh8255ke4.jpg) (http://s1143.photobucket.com/user/bobkiralfy/media/HMS%20Royal%20Marine/RM%202-1-17%20b_zpsh8255ke4.jpg.html)

Still a fair bit more to do.  Stairs, more handrails, masts, rigging, life boats (Quaycraft), etc, but now fast approaching the status of a trip to the lake.  Should I add Milliput Splinter Mats to the bridge?  With detailing I never know when to stop  %%

Bob K
Title: Re: HMS Royal Marine
Post by: raflaunches on January 02, 2017, 03:14:05 PM
Lovely job Bob
She looks very professional. Neat work with the hand rails.
Title: Re: HMS Royal Marine
Post by: Klunk on January 02, 2017, 04:55:32 PM
Bob. I apologise profusely! !! I was a genuine question  as well. Everything I've seen is a dirty white in the few colour films and pics I've seen.....but most modellers paint the life rafaft yellow, which to me seems strange as the shop is painted for camflage but then having a garish yellow seems to go against the grain!


I owe a bacon roll next time we meet.
Title: Re: HMS Royal Marine
Post by: ballastanksian on January 02, 2017, 06:19:12 PM
I would definitly sculpt some splinter mats and then call it a day as regards details. You could always go back and add a few more details during a periodic model tidy up?

I think the randomness of the splintermat detail given their flexibility adds a touch of life to what is understandably a mecanical straight line structure.

Title: Re: HMS Royal Marine
Post by: Bob K on January 02, 2017, 06:26:34 PM
Not at all Klunk.  A perfectly valid question, which at least got me researching some more.  Thank you for asking.

At 619mm long this is less than a tenth of the length of the next 1/96 scale warship I intend to build, but at only £120 plus electrics the amount of detail makes it excellent value IMO.
Title: Re: HMS Royal Marine, ready to sail
Post by: Bob K on January 06, 2017, 09:50:30 AM
HMS Royal Marine, ready to sail

It always seems like the many last little details take forever.  Masts and rigging, various stairs and ladders, lots more handrails, and of course breaking out my tiniest brushes to detail seventeen 1/96 crew members.  Somehow no model is complete without some crew visible, plus it gives a sense of scale.  Several light coats of Pastikote satin clear varnish to protect the finish for sailing.  Lastly the glazing can go behind the numerous windows and portholes before the last sub-assemblies get glued on.  Wiring LED’s

I am quite pleased with my somewhat modified 4 inch gun.  It looks about right, especially with railings and crew alongside.

(http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n626/bobkiralfy/HMS%20Royal%20Marine/RM%206-1-17%20a_zpsx7dm7ckp.jpg) (http://s1143.photobucket.com/user/bobkiralfy/media/HMS%20Royal%20Marine/RM%206-1-17%20a_zpsx7dm7ckp.jpg.html)

(http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n626/bobkiralfy/HMS%20Royal%20Marine/RM%206-1-17%20b_zpsa32optqx.jpg) (http://s1143.photobucket.com/user/bobkiralfy/media/HMS%20Royal%20Marine/RM%206-1-17%20b_zpsa32optqx.jpg.html)

I find that these builds make a refreshing change from long term projects whilst still giving plenty of scope for customising or adding extra detail.  My next build will be ten times longer with a very high proportion of “scratch” in its construction.


Title: Re: HMS Royal Marine
Post by: ballastanksian on January 06, 2017, 08:40:22 PM
That is a gorgeous model Bob. I hope to see itat Wicksteed later this year.
Title: Re: HMS Royal Marine
Post by: Bob K on January 06, 2017, 09:29:50 PM
Thank you. I enjoyed building her.  Wicksteed is on my 2017 list.  See you there  :-))
Title: Re: HMS Royal Marine
Post by: ballastanksian on January 06, 2017, 09:33:01 PM
Fingers crossed.
Title: Re: HMS Royal Marine, maiden voyage
Post by: Bob K on January 08, 2017, 12:58:20 PM
HMS Royal Marine, maiden voyage

Final ballasting test showed up just how high and heavy the superstructure had become.  Almost 200 grams.  A lot of fittings + brass masts.  Had to take out the bags of lead shot and substitute for some lead bar on the underside of the hull.  Sits slightly lower on the water than I’d like, but is now stable.

(http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n626/bobkiralfy/HMS%20Royal%20Marine/Black%20Park%203_zpsochoxtzn.jpg) (http://s1143.photobucket.com/user/bobkiralfy/media/HMS%20Royal%20Marine/Black%20Park%203_zpsochoxtzn.jpg.html)

Sails really nicely though.  A two hour session at Black Park on a very calm but slightly misty Sunday morning.  I am well pleased with the overall result.  Sorry, no LED's or splinter mats (extra mass) will be going on this one.

(http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n626/bobkiralfy/HMS%20Royal%20Marine/Black%20Park%202_zpsu7jknynj.jpg) (http://s1143.photobucket.com/user/bobkiralfy/media/HMS%20Royal%20Marine/Black%20Park%202_zpsu7jknynj.jpg.html)

Title: Re: HMS Royal Marine
Post by: raflaunches on January 08, 2017, 03:52:45 PM
Very nice Bob- she looks most purposeful on the water. You've done a wonderful job with the kit and I look forward to seeing her for real later this year. :-))
Title: Re: HMS Royal Marine
Post by: ballastanksian on January 08, 2017, 06:22:00 PM
I don't blame you Bob. It is no point adding all the details if it affects her sailing abilities especially if the sailing is an important part of your hobby.

Being able to say stop is a good skill to have.
Title: Re: HMS Royal Marine
Post by: markjames68 on April 18, 2017, 03:18:50 PM
Lovely build of a. Lovely boat,
A question tho, you have mentioned a couple of times that your next project is ten times longer.....?
6.19 metres ! . 20 feet give or take! What is it?? Alsi if its 1/96 project, that means the real boat would be 1900 odd feet long..
Title: Re: HMS Royal Marine
Post by: Bob K on April 18, 2017, 04:12:38 PM
I did say that, but HMS Royal Marine is just over 600 mm long.  I am aiming to build HMS Agincourt at the same scale, which will have to be split in half for transport due to its length.  Over 6 m

On detailing, no I don't know when to stop - my favourite stage in any build.
However, it was mainly the height of the superstructure plus supplied die cast and resin fittings plus the supplied brass rod for masts that created the issue, not what I had added over and above that.
Thin deck planking, scale figures, etc will not have made much difference.

Anyway, she is sailed regularly, providing not too much wind (waves).
Title: Re: HMS Royal Marine
Post by: unbuiltnautilus on April 18, 2017, 05:13:36 PM
She looks sweet in the water, nice job, well done :-))


Good news on HMS Agincourt, I think you are getting a touch of the old tunnel vision on the length there. She is 2.15m or 84.6" or just over seven foot long. Still no tiddler and certainly worth transporting in two halfs.


Six metres, crikey, I thought, Schleswig Holstein is 4.2 metres long, and they make me sit in that one O0



Title: Re: HMS Royal Marine
Post by: ballastanksian on April 18, 2017, 09:11:25 PM
Sadly Bob has no choice but to lop it in two halves to fit in his car. There was an interesting bit of the specific topic with loads of suggestions on how to build a two part hull and how to do the electrical connections; or not.