Model Boat Mayhem
Technical, Techniques, Hints, and Tips => Other Technical Questions... => Topic started by: Bob K on September 16, 2016, 01:55:41 pm
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Hi All. I did bring this up in another thread, but perhaps someone could advise me if I ask as a separate topic question.
I am limited to a maximum boat length of 1.2 m due to the size of my little Agilla car in which the front seat will not fold down. There are several models I would love to build ( eg: Deans HMS Bellerophon and HMS Fencer), but both are over 1.6 m.
Is there any practical way of splitting a hull for transport without making it look totally naff and obvious, ensuring the joint bulkheading is totally watertight, and being able to lock the halves together without kneeling by the lakeside (which I can't do.)
Maybe shearing a foot off the bow, using tapered dowels into tubes with spit pins inside the upper hull, and of course without unsplitable essentials across the join.
PS: I did ask my wife if I could borrow her Zafira on Sundays. She said "Why?". I replied "so I can build bigger boats". She said "NO!".
I am sure many have come across this problem and overcome it.
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... the front seat will not fold down.
Take the seat out? Four bolts and (maybe) an electrical connector if you've got fancy heated seats. Takes five minutes. You could build a box to fit the space in order to provide a level surface, which could also store gear.
Andy
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Can you do basic fibre glassing, flat sheets or simple almost flat parts? Its a loaded question of course!!
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Cannot take seat out due to lower spine and legs problem, same as prevents me kneeling at the lakeside.
Yes, have done fibreglassing, bulkheads, sealing, and partial hull modifications.
But how to build almost invisible bulkhead joins ?
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http://modelwarshipsuk.informe.com/forum/aircraft-carriers-and-amphbious-f18/rex-s-hermes-t961.html
Read the first bit of this. Rexs join was all but invisible in use
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Interesting, but no images. You have to be a member to see them.
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Over on page 2 of my SS Ohio build log in Working Vessels, there are a series of photos of the join that self aligns, then bolts together On Ohio much filler was still needed to make the joints good. this is because she is a timber build.
We have fitted a joining bulkhead to at least two models, which were already built and sailing. this required a precision bulkhead to be built, with a self locating key way face. Then a second, opposing bulkhead to be laminated off of the first one. These were built slightly over size, and separate from the model.
A cut line was then marked around the hull, accuracy being important here. The next stage was to drill 0.5mm holes around this cut line, into which 0.5mm piano wire was routed across the hull. This is used to face up the two bulkheads to. the 0.5mm wires. (It is worth drilling bolt holes through the two bulkheads as they are together, before fitting the bulkheads into the model.) The bulkheads are then fitted into the model, either side of the wire, and bonded in to the hull. Much care needed here to ensure a very good bond as well as accurate fitting.
The piano wire is removed from the model. this should leave you a 0.5mm gap between the bulkheads, which is your cut line. Once the hull is cut, some fine finishing will still be needed with filler etc, to get everything looking just right.
With this method, it is worth cutting where the sides are near parallel, with little or no tapering towards the bow or stern, as removing 0.5mm from a tapered end will cause a step to appear.
Alternatively, the joint could be disguised by some type of down pipe or garbage chute, lifeboat runner or camouflage colour change on a warship.
I shall try and find some examples to photograph, within the group.
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There are plenty of hardware options and fittings that can be stolen from electronic equipment flight-case designs.
These cases are designed to stack, lock, align & dismantle and be very roughly treated and be weather/corrosion resistant so the hardware is ideal.
The locks can be on the bottom of the boat out of sight.
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I really would like to see some detailed photographs, if anyone could oblige. Splitting the hull where parallel (centre 50% of length) is likely to cause some major internal logistics problems such as electrical connections, batteries and ballasting. How to fasten the joined parts without on the water screws and bolts etc.
I am sure more will be apparent when I can see how it is done.
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Bob, I had a quick look at some plans etc of the ship and saw that there is an ash chute that runs down the sides slightly halfway along the hull coming from the bow and wonder if you use these to mask the split in the hull? On the Dreadnought they don't go all the way up but would break up much of the visible join. On the Iron Dukes, they have a chute that runs all the way to the weather deck making them even more convenient as masks.
The Bellerophon has a deep armour patch that could be used as a mask for the split.
Now onto connections between hull halves. A fellow Yeovil club member uses contacts for connecting internal TV and stereo systems (Miniature screen and sound system!!! in his pleasure cruiser model) which could be mounted on each bulkhead to touch when the hull halves are fitted together. These contacts could be sprung to make sure they remained in contact.
Alternatively, have the wires routed over the bulkheads and hidden by the superstructure. If the water is getting in here then the model is already at risk of swamping so you could simplify your connection issues.
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Now not being frivolous Bob %)....have you considered trading the wife in for a new younger sportier model?...preferably one with a Pantech
Derek
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Have a look at this "split-hull" HMS Edinburgh - you might get some inspiration from it - the build photos start about a third of the way down, page 1 of 3. www.shipmodels.info/mws_forum/viewtopic.php?f=76&t=52900
Regards,
Ray.
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Ray, that is a magnificent build. Can't see the join. However it does appear to involve 4 large threaded studs, probably with nuts washers and some sort of sealing rings to prevent water getting in.
I was looking for something more click/latching, and preferably without having to split electrics etc across the join.
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You could look at concealed hinges, e.g. for kitchen units, to swing a portion of the boat round. Not sure if 180 deg is possible but 165 is common. Just need a latch (or maybe not as those hinges do hold shut) and wiring can be taken through next to the hinges without a break, just a loop.
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A trailer would solve all your problems, nemesis
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See post 138 of this, it is my 19 foot Bulk Carrier that fits in my Agila.
http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=9488;area=showposts;start=125
Len.
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I suggest you contact the Portland Model Powerboat Association (Portland, Oregon, USA). They have a number of members who have built very large model warships, that are brought to the pond in pieces and assembled there. I have been to their regattas and watched them assemble these ships, often taking an hour or more to be ready to launch. Once assembled, the seams are not visible.
Here is their website. http://www.pmpba.org
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watched them assemble these ships, often taking an hour or more to be ready to launch.
Anything that takes an hour to assemble lakeside does not sound practical. Nor does a trailer or HGV.
Before someone suggests it, a roof rack mounted box would be ripped off by the height limit bar on our car park entrance.
I just want to split a 1.6 m (approx. 5 ft) model so I can get it on my back seat. A simple and quick method, like fixing a bayonet on a rifle, no loose fixings, and without cable looms across the join.
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You missed my point. The Portland club members have very good ways of splitting a large hull for transport, while making the halves water tight. They basically make 2 boxes, fore and aft, and join them so they line up accurately and repeatably.
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I do not know your bulkhead thickness and these might be no good ,have a look at a product called Button -Fix .I am sorry I can not put the link up haven't a clue how to do it on this new machine yet .
David
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Strong magnets might work, with a few dowels to keep everything lined up
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That sounds practical. I am looking to split the hull near the front, using long tapered dowels into closed end tubes. Both bulkheads around the split line will have to be well reinforced around the edges to maintain strength.
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Could you combine the dowels, magnets and electrical connectors into one so that when the pins fit the electrical contacts are also made?
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Anything that takes an hour to assemble lakeside does not sound practical. Nor does a trailer or HGV.
Before someone suggests it, a roof rack mounted box would be ripped off by the height limit bar on our car park entrance.
I just want to split a 1.6 m (approx. 5 ft) model so I can get it on my back seat. A simple and quick method, like fixing a bayonet on a rifle, no loose fixings, and without cable looms across the join.
Cant you just put the Back seats down, you could then get 5 foot boat in.
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Cant you just put the Back seats down, you could then get 5 foot boat in.
You must have a very large car, or an estate. Even with the rear seats down and front seat as forward as it will go four feet two inches is the maximum diagonally. My HMS Polyphemus just squeezes in like that.
As stated previously, the remit is to chop a foot off the bow to avoid splitting electrics.
I need to transport 60 inches length, inside the car. That is around ten inches more than the maximum un-split hulled ship. So, the cut needs to be around a foot to 18 inches from the bow so the forward section requires only ballasting.
Surely someone has done this, and has photos showing their methodology.
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You must have a very large car,
It is an Agila.
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Agila - fold down rear seats and recline the passenger all the way back - should give at least a 6 foot straight run before you get to the dashboard.
My car is slightly bigger - I can get 2.8m (9 feet) doing the same and still close the boot.
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What kind of Agila is that? Mine was new in Aug 2013.
No, the front seat only tilts forwards about 45' and back 30'. Merely nominal reclining adjustment.
It does NOT "fold all the way back" . I am not going to have a garage permanently remove the front seat either, I need it at other times.
Four feet two inches is the absolute maximum ship length, even diagonally with the front seat fully forward, without leaving the doors open. Poking the end of a hull out the window would not be allowed either.
Can we please have some serious suggestions on splitting the front of hull or I will ask Martin to remove this thread.
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You have had sensible suggestions from lots of people
Like building the hull as 2 separate boxes that bolt together - theres pics on the thread links about different methods of doing it.
I pointed you towards a source of clips, fittings and hardware for accurately locating & locking the 2 parts together.
It's not actally very difficult as long as you can make strong, well braced, well sealed pair of bulkheads at the join that can but up to each other and locate accurately.
If the front part doesn't have any electricals, there's no reason why it can't be a free-flooding, neutrally boyant long 'visor' clipped to the front of the main rear floatation 'box' that has the batteries, motors & radio inside.
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Can we please have some serious suggestions on splitting the front of hull or I will ask Martin to remove this thread.
Plenty of serious suggestions made, you just don't like any of them.
Removing the thread would remove all those ideas from the sight of others who might be interested in trying them.