Model Boat Mayhem - Forum

Technical, Techniques, Hints, and Tips => Wood Care: => Topic started by: Dan.Lord on August 13, 2007, 05:12:54 PM

Title: Decking / Planking
Post by: Dan.Lord on August 13, 2007, 05:12:54 PM
Hi all, does anybody know of a supplier of ready made decking sheets in this country ? I got some for a previous build, from Micro-mark in the USA, but got stung on the customs charges when it was delivered. It would be nice to get it from the UK if possible. Cheers Dan.
Title: Re: Decking / Planking
Post by: R2-D2 on August 13, 2007, 05:18:09 PM
Try   http://www.deansmarine.co.uk/  they have some .
                   http://deansmarine.co.uk/order1/accp/Untitled-7.jpg
Luke
Title: Re: Decking / Planking
Post by: Martin [Admin] on August 13, 2007, 05:33:14 PM
Also try - http://www.modellingtimbers.co.uk/index2.html
Title: Re: Decking / Planking
Post by: DickyD on August 13, 2007, 06:17:44 PM
You could try :

http://www.yellowcatshop.co.uk/shop/default.asp?clientid=14&gid=4dmod&viewstate=32769&tabcatid=3500106&subcatid=3500120

They show sheet planking of various timbers but no pictures. There is a phone number at the bottom of the page.
Title: Re: Decking / Planking
Post by: Peterm on August 13, 2007, 07:12:32 PM
I got mine from The Dolls House.   Their web address is on Google.   Pete M
Title: Re: Decking / Planking
Post by: Dan.Lord on August 13, 2007, 07:30:31 PM
Hi Thanks for the web addresses. I've had a quick browse through them, they seem to do individual planks, the type I was after are glued togeather with black glue to simulate caulking, as in the pic. I've left a couple of e mails to see what they do. Cheers again for the help Dan.
Title: Re: Decking / Planking
Post by: R2-D2 on August 13, 2007, 09:11:23 PM
If you find the supplier can you tell us they look very handy.


Luke
Title: Re: Decking / Planking
Post by: Dan.Lord on August 14, 2007, 03:34:01 PM
If you find the supplier can you tell us they look very handy.


Luke
Hi I got these from the USA at www.micro-mark.com , they do various width planks at roughly £3.50 a sheet which is 3" X 36". The only problem is that sometimes you get caught by customs & they put another £10.00 on the price. the planks look great once fitted & stain up really nicely too. Dan.
Title: Re: Decking / Planking
Post by: Bryan Young on August 23, 2007, 10:52:13 PM

Moderated A general plank is about 5" wide for a modern ship. I also notice that there is no "end" to the planks. Moderated I would suggest between 20 and 25 feet as a rough guide. The shift of butts is important. Get it wrong and you will destroy your decking. Difficult to say how to do it in words but the idea is to get as much separation between the butts as possible. I suppose 4.2.3.1. layout should look correct. Moderated. BY.

Title: Re: Decking / Planking
Post by: Colin Bishop on August 23, 2007, 11:09:56 PM
Bryan's post isn't altogether helpful but if you search "Planking" on the Forum there is quite a lot of useful information.
Title: Re: Decking / Planking
Post by: Martin [Admin] on August 23, 2007, 11:22:52 PM


'Anyone can be polite to a king. It takes a gentleman to be polite to a everyone else.'

Sarcastic and demeaning remarks are never helpful and will not be toterated on this forum.

Strike One BY.

Admin.

Title: Re: Decking / Planking
Post by: colin-stevens on August 24, 2007, 10:38:37 AM
never found planking ready printed that has the butts. if you find any one who supplies pleese share.
i made my own for one of my ships. cut indiviual planks to the correct lenght then glued them to black paper, edge down, in blocks of 30 or so. when the glue had dried just sliced them apart with a very sharp knife then glued them down to a false deck. very satisfying finnish, but toock forever.
good luck
colin
Title: Re: Decking / Planking
Post by: RickF on August 24, 2007, 11:25:05 AM
I adopt a similar approach. but I use black insulation tape to represent caulking. I also found it very difficult to align the butts if I cut the planks to length prior to gluing down, so now I use continuous strips and represent the butts with a sharp, hard pencil line. I usually use 1/16" thick obechi, to the appropriate scale width - in the illustration below 6" (1:96 = 1/16")

Rick
Title: Re: Decking / Planking
Post by: colin-stevens on August 24, 2007, 11:37:19 AM
here is a bit of mine
http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=299.0;attach=434
Title: Re: Decking / Planking
Post by: charvey on August 24, 2007, 11:39:51 AM
I used stringing lines from a marquetry website http://www.marquetry.co.uk/main/acatalog/Stringing.html, I used 1mm "Black" on it's side to give about 0.75mm caulking and 3.2mm Teak, which they did as a special cut for me, though it was no more expensive. They also do line banding which may be useful.

Cut each plank to size before you fix it to the deck, this is especially important for the angled or shaped ends, though the square ends can be trimmed to length by a few millimeters if the length is not quite correct. Each "Plank" is glued to the deck using Dunlop Thixofix, spread on the plank and plastic deck.  Allow the thixofix to dry to the touch then press the plank onto the deck with a good firm thumb! Using Thixofix will allow you to move the planks slightly to get the positioning correct. and once you have done an area everything should hold it's self together.

I did the STD side first then left it a week and completed the port side planking (the order is not important ;-) ) then gently rub it down using a fine rubbing paper (I used wet and dry) wrapped around a small block, remembering to finish rubbing with the grain of the wood. I say rub gently, the wood is less than 1mm thick so it does not take much to sand through - I know I have done it! If any of the planks lift whilst rubbing down they can be reattached with thixofix applied on a pin or something.

This was my first attempt so the planking is simplified - I am sure though you could produce a more prototypical planking using this method.

The picture shows the planking rubbed down but not oiled - I have now used Robbe Wood Wax to really bring out the finish.
Title: Re: Decking / Planking
Post by: charvey on August 24, 2007, 12:02:09 PM
Here is the cockpit floor, and the anchor locker detail.  The boat is a Robbe Comtesse.

Chris
Title: Re: Decking / Planking
Post by: sinjon on August 24, 2007, 12:36:57 PM
I also use black insulation tape, same as RickF, I got the tip from Bryan Young, I think it works well, for me the best yet.

I lay my planks down on double sided tape, the deck marked with the planking shift - length of the plank divided by four, and each plank advanced by 1/4, so that every fifth plank lines up with the first.

Also on the insulation tape, I leave a few mm spare at the end, which I fold round for the butt.

Very, Very tedious, but it really does look good.

Colin
Title: Re: Decking / Planking
Post by: red181 on August 24, 2007, 10:06:33 PM
Guys, in very simple terms, explain the insulation tape caulking please. I am about to start a planking project, it will be my first, although I have had a bit of a practise run on scrap wood. I cannot do any planking off the deck, it has to go straight on due to the curvature and shape of the deck. THe caulking needs to be grey, so I was thinking of grey insulation tape, or "gaffer tape2, which is a bit thicker, and grey!
So am I right saying lay a plank, allow to set, then a strip of insulation tape, then another plank, and so on?. If so, when rubbing down the planks for the final laquer, will you not rub the tape and cause it to fray or rip?.
It needs to be grey to replicate below.
Many thanks,
Paul
PS.... Any quick responses would be appreciated, going to the shows tomorrow so if I need to buy anythig, thats the day!
www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=6407663
www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=6407662
Title: Re: Decking / Planking
Post by: Colin Bishop on August 24, 2007, 10:23:29 PM
If you have to lay the deck direct then you might consider using grey sewing/button thread between the planks. Use aliphatic or similar glue. (I assume that the base deck is wood). Then coat the deck in sanding sealer to stiffen the thread and planking and rub down with medium wet and dry before finishing with matt or satin varnish. I have used this method successfully with black thread and it looks OK. Time consuming though! Quick grab aliphatic does speed up the process.
Title: Re: Decking / Planking
Post by: red181 on August 24, 2007, 10:54:38 PM
Thanks Colin, yes its a wood deck. If I use thread, is that thick enough? Does the thread have be be level with the top surface of the plank ( if you know what I mean) The pictures above all seem to be one level of caulking and plank. I dont mind spending time doing it, I started painting the hull 4 weeks ago, just doing a bit at a time!
Paul
Title: Re: Decking / Planking
Post by: Colin Bishop on August 24, 2007, 11:15:51 PM
Yes, I know what you mean. I used thin stripwood which measures 0.6mm thick using my electronic calipers. The thread was button thread which is a bit thicker than standard sewing thread and is close to the thickness of the wood so no problems there. I "painted" aliphatic wood glue along the deck and laid the plank then laid the thread alongside it. Then I laid the next plank, pushing it up alongside the first one to sandwich the thread. I used a damp cloth to wipe the surface clean and bed everything down. It's tedious but not too slow and because the glue is water soluble you can fiddle about if the layout isn't quite right. The finished result looked like this at 1:48th scale.

Other people have different methods which work equally well. Depends on what you are comfortable with.
Title: Re: Decking / Planking
Post by: RickF on August 25, 2007, 12:10:33 AM
With the "insulation tape method", you take a length of tape approximately three feet long and place it sticky side up. You then fit as many decking planks - ON EDGE - on to it as possible and rub down well. Using a sharp blade you then separate the planks. This gives you a number of planks with caulking attached down one side.

You then glue down your deck with your favorite adhesive and leave to set, All that remains then is to smooth it off. I find that if you start sanding straight away the friction heats up the excess tape and makes a mess. So I use a scraper initially (a Stanley knife blade seems ideal) then finally sand gently. I then draw in the butt joints and give it a few coats of satin varnish, sanding down between coats. If I'm feeling a bit artistic, I highlight/stain some of the longer planks between butt joints to disguise the fact that they are continuous strips.

Rick
Title: Re: Decking / Planking
Post by: sinjon on August 25, 2007, 06:33:52 AM
Hello Paul,
The technique I use for insulation tape caulking is - lay down a strip of tape sticky side up, secure each end with selotape. if you want thicker caulking, just keep adding layers of tape. My planks I have precut to length, and at the scale that I am working to, I can get about 20 to one width of tape, squeeze them tightly together & put edge on to the tape. Cut the tape leaving spare at each end,turn over & burnish the tape onto the planks, turn back over, then its a simple process of just running the finest scalpel between each plank. I start in the middle of the plank and cut out to each end - its easier to control the little bit of spare tape at each end, that you can fold round to cover the butt.
Its sands down well, with no fraying.

Colin


i
Title: Re: Decking / Planking
Post by: red181 on August 25, 2007, 09:23:48 AM
thanks to all! Its times like this that this forum comes into its own, where else can you get all this valuable info between 11.30pm and 6.30am! I will try the tape method, looks like its going to be a long job and a winter 1st launch!!
Paul
Title: Re: Decking / Planking
Post by: Bunkerbarge on August 25, 2007, 01:57:51 PM
I know Iíve posted pictures about this before but as we are talking about planking again I thought I would share my own technique.

One of the interesting aspects of getting into a new hobby is that you think a bit more out side the box and use ideas brought from many outside sources.  My method of planking is based on my observations of real deck work on ships during many dry docks over the years rather than established modeling practice and so is probably a bit unusual.  I donít hold it up as the best but it works well for me and so I offer it as an alternative to consider.

The model in question  is the Mountfleet Ben Ain at 1/32nd scale and the planks are 5mmx1mm.

The first deck was the focísíle where I glued all the planks to a ply base separated by plastic spacers to give a 0.5mm gap around all the planks.  I couldnít find any specific drawings of the time so I assumed that steam ships of this nature being built to a price may well not have had joggled planking, which is considerably more expensive, so I decided not to joggle mine.  I was also led down this path by the pre-printed overlay and I was well on my way before I realized that this could be considered.

Anyway after the planks had all set I made up my caulking mix of waterproof PVA and black powder paint and spread it all over the planks.  All a bit heart stopping to see all that nice work disappear under a pile of black gunge!  After it had set the laborious task of rubbing it all down started.  When the planks showed through I was very pleased with the results and a couple of coats of satin yacht varnish gave me quite a pleasing effect.

The next deck was the bridge deck which received a very similar treatment but was quite a bit easier for not having any fitted planks.

My technique was modified a bit though for the last deck, the flying bridge deck, based on earlier learnings.  Firstly I spaced the planks with plastic extruded angle which was far more consistent and, more importantly, a lot easier to handle.  Then, instead of coating the whole deck with the glue mix, I put it into a small syringe and piped it along the edges.  Strangely enough this is now exactly the same method used when caulking real planks when teak decking is laid on a ship.

Once again a couple of coats of satin to finish but only after the fittings had been glued to the bare wood first to enable the best possible bond.

I have actually just ordered a number of the plank strips from Micro-Mart for future non scale applications which I am looking forward to having a play with.  You could spend a lot of time on their web site!!
Title: Re: Decking / Planking
Post by: HS93 (RIP) on August 29, 2007, 02:22:17 AM
Saw this update on how full size are doing it, I was supprised how thin and Flexable it was.

Peter

http://www.newson.co.uk/boat/flexiteek-and-aikona-decking/
Title: Re: Decking / Planking
Post by: boatmadman on August 29, 2007, 03:29:31 AM
Hi,
An alternative is to use sticky back plastic - fablon. Lay a plank on its edge on the sticky side and with a scalpel cut the fablon alongside the plank. Glue the planks to the deck and when all finished rub down etc.

I have used this method with success a number of times. I have found that because the fablon is stuck to one plank and butted up to by the next plank, it doesnt move or fray when sanding down.

If you get any excess sticking well above deck level, before sanding trim with a v sharp chisel.

Works for me.

Ian
Title: Re: Decking / Planking
Post by: Bryan Young on August 29, 2007, 07:57:17 PM

Moderated A general plank is about 5" wide for a modern ship. I also notice that there is no "end" to the planks. Moderated I would suggest between 20 and 25 feet as a rough guide. The shift of butts is important. Get it wrong and you will destroy your decking. Difficult to say how to do it in words but the idea is to get as much separation between the butts as possible. I suppose 4.2.3.1. layout should look correct. Moderated. BY.


What on earth has gone wrong here? I was just wondering how a post on planking could be "moderated" and found that little lot! I never wrote that!
However, I was intrigued by the post by "Charvey". He seems to have done a lovely job with a sort of diagonal planking. My main problem with "Bluebird of Chelsea" (NOT "Bluebird of South Shields"), was that the planks themselves were curved. Cutting these was a horrendous waste of time, money and expensive timber. I never thought of doing it in stright diagonal lines. DOH!! Silly me. BY.
Title: Re: Decking / Planking
Post by: Bryan Young on August 29, 2007, 08:03:56 PM
Bryan's post isn't altogether helpful but if you search "Planking" on the Forum there is quite a lot of useful information.
I quite agree. Even as the supposed author of that drivel it had me confused! Something went wrong with something!
Just finished decking another one (without all the distracting details not attributable to me)......BY.
Title: Re: Decking / Planking
Post by: charvey on August 29, 2007, 09:51:41 PM
Hi Bryan,
My planking does curve, but only very gently to follow the line of the deck. This is one reason why I chose to use Dunlop Thixofix to glue the planks down. Here is the overall result:

Thanks

Chris
Title: Re: Decking / Planking
Post by: boatmadman on August 29, 2007, 09:53:01 PM
I have done curved planking using cyno - worked ok for me.

Ian
Title: Re: Decking / Planking
Post by: Bryan Young on August 29, 2007, 11:22:50 PM
I know Iíve posted pictures about this before but as we are talking about planking again I thought I would share my own technique.

One of the interesting aspects of getting into a new hobby is that you think a bit more out side the box and use ideas brought from many outside sources.  My method of planking is based on my observations of real deck work on ships during many dry docks over the years rather than established modeling practice and so is probably a bit unusual.  I donít hold it up as the best but it works well for me and so I offer it as an alternative to consider.

The model in question  is the Mountfleet Ben Ain at 1/32nd scale and the planks are 5mmx1mm.

The first deck was the focísíle where I glued all the planks to a ply base separated by plastic spacers to give a 0.5mm gap around all the planks.  I couldnít find any specific drawings of the time so I assumed that steam ships of this nature being built to a price may well not have had joggled planking, which is considerably more expensive, so I decided not to joggle mine.  I was also led down this path by the pre-printed overlay and I was well on my way before I realized that this could be considered.

Anyway after the planks had all set I made up my caulking mix of waterproof PVA and black powder paint and spread it all over the planks.  All a bit heart stopping to see all that nice work disappear under a pile of black gunge!  After it had set the laborious task of rubbing it all down started.  When the planks showed through I was very pleased with the results and a couple of coats of satin yacht varnish gave me quite a pleasing effect.

The next deck was the bridge deck which received a very similar treatment but was quite a bit easier for not having any fitted planks.

My technique was modified a bit though for the last deck, the flying bridge deck, based on earlier learnings.  Firstly I spaced the planks with plastic extruded angle which was far more consistent and, more importantly, a lot easier to handle.  Then, instead of coating the whole deck with the glue mix, I put it into a small syringe and piped it along the edges.  Strangely enough this is now exactly the same method used when caulking real planks when teak decking is laid on a ship.

Once again a couple of coats of satin to finish but only after the fittings had been glued to the bare wood first to enable the best possible bond.

I have actually just ordered a number of the plank strips from Micro-Mart for future non scale applications which I am looking forward to having a play with.  You could spend a lot of time on their web site!!


Can you remember when it was that this subject first came up an what sub-heading/thread it was on? I am trying to find my original posts on the use of insulation tape. Thanks if you can help. BY.
Title: Re: Decking / Planking
Post by: Bunkerbarge on August 30, 2007, 12:17:22 AM
There's this one:

http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/Forum_1.htm
Title: Re: Decking / Planking
Post by: red181 on August 30, 2007, 12:56:50 AM
Hi Bryan, , to me they look grey, not black caulking. I am doing the interior of the boat in mahogany, with white caulking, but the deck will be a light colour, and I thought the caulking on these picc was grey, comments welcome! Too many late nights on this forum could have damaged my eyes, but why do you think grey will not work?
Paul
(http://img2.putfile.com/thumb/8/24019510817.jpg) (http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=6451516)(http://)

(http://img2.putfile.com/thumb/8/24019510854.jpg) (http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=6451515)(http://)

(http://img2.putfile.com/thumb/8/24019510840.jpg) (http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=6451514)(http://)

(http://img2.putfile.com/thumb/8/23517051141.jpg) (http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=6407662)(http://)
Title: Re: Decking / Planking
Post by: red181 on August 30, 2007, 01:00:18 AM
sorry, pics didnt work, they where there in the preview!!
have a look at the attachments in my previous  post please, see what you all think
Title: Re: Decking / Planking
Post by: tigertiger on August 30, 2007, 01:41:43 AM
Hi PMdevil

From the look of the foreseck photo the caulking does at first gslance appear gre. However i also see the dceck is in the process fo being scraped.
I am assuming the following. It is black caulking but becuase the surface is rouphed up it is reflecting/defracting light differently. As soon as it is poliched or varnished it will appear shiny black again.
A bit like balck plastic car fenders/bumpers looking grey until oiled/polished.

The other photo of the boat side on also the deck looks a bit grey. This is either because the deck is very scuffed up (hence the refurb in the later photo) or it is just a trick of the light/photography.

From what I can see that is. But what do I know.
Title: Re: Decking / Planking
Post by: Bunkerbarge on August 30, 2007, 01:59:43 AM
It looks to me, and I have no doubts about this, like you have a varnished interior with white caulking, which is slightly discoloured by the varnish, and the external deck is normal scrubbed teak decking with black caulking.

This would make sense to me as you would not want varnished walkways, which could be very slippery, but you would not want a rough wood finish in the interior spaces.  You will normally find varnished wood in areas that are likely to come into contact with people as it is so much more comfortable.
Title: Re: Decking / Planking
Post by: Bryan Young on August 30, 2007, 05:53:32 PM
Bryan's post isn't altogether helpful but if you search "Planking" on the Forum there is quite a lot of useful information.
I am not too sure what you are talking about. Are you mentioning something that has been "moderated"? If so then that post whatever it said (I do not know, as it is in "blue") did not come from me. I am really not too sure where to go with this, but I think my password has been hijacked somewhere down the line. Could you please tell me what was "not helpful" so I can possibly read it for the first time.
From what I can gather, a very early post of mine describing the use of Insulation Tape as a method of caulking has been re-introduced to the forum under my name. In general..in fact as a rule...I do not post messages twice. Especially word for word with some offensive words added. I do not know what these "offensive" words are. Something is not right and it appears to be aimed at me. I joined the forum to shove in my pennyworth . Probably ruffled some feathers, but is that not what a "forum" is all about? What has happened to me recently has been malicious and unworthy of anyone interested in model boating. I hope this can all be cleared up soon. BY.
Title: Re: Decking / Planking
Post by: Bryan Young on August 30, 2007, 06:00:52 PM
With the "insulation tape method", you take a length of tape approximately three feet long and place it sticky side up. You then fit as many decking planks - ON EDGE - on to it as possible and rub down well. Using a sharp blade you then separate the planks. This gives you a number of planks with caulking attached down one side.

You then glue down your deck with your favorite adhesive and leave to set, All that remains then is to smooth it off. I find that if you start sanding straight away the friction heats up the excess tape and makes a mess. So I use a scraper initially (a Stanley knife blade seems ideal) then finally sand gently. I then draw in the butt joints and give it a few coats of satin varnish, sanding down between coats. If I'm feeling a bit artistic, I highlight/stain some of the longer planks between butt joints to disguise the fact that they are continuous strips.

Rick
Hi,Rick.
Interested that you use a 3' length of tape! I find I am in trouble with anything over 6"! I also get only 11 planks off a length, but maybe you have access to a wider tape? I always leave about 0.25" sticking out beyond the plank ends to give me enough tape to fold over for the butt joints.
Can't get over the idea of a 3' length of springy tape though! Cheers. BY.
Title: Re: Decking / Planking
Post by: Bryan Young on August 30, 2007, 06:18:19 PM
Hi Bryan, , to me they look grey, not black caulking. I am doing the interior of the boat in mahogany, with white caulking, but the deck will be a light colour, and I thought the caulking on these picc was grey, comments welcome! Too many late nights on this forum could have damaged my eyes, but why do you think grey will not work?
Paul
(http://img2.putfile.com/thumb/8/24019510817.jpg) (http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=6451516)(http://)

(http://img2.putfile.com/thumb/8/24019510854.jpg) (http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=6451515)(http://)

(http://img2.putfile.com/thumb/8/24019510840.jpg) (http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=6451514)(http://)

(http://img2.putfile.com/thumb/8/23517051141.jpg) (http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=6407662)(http://)

I would guess that you are building to a rather large scale. Perhaps !:12 or 1:18. If that is the case then my insulation tape method will not work.
You are now into the realms of very thin (equivalent thickness to 0.25") plasticard as caulking. And as far as I know there is no grey plasticard on the market. Cut black and you will get black, cut white and you will get white. Yachts and cruise liners often use white caulking, personally, I have never heard of grey. Could be wrong. But I bet you it was white!. BY.
Title: Re: Decking / Planking
Post by: funtimefrankie on August 30, 2007, 07:26:57 PM
You can plasticard in all sorts of colours....
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/1-5mm-A4-Plasticard-hips-Plastic-Sheet-Art-Craft_W0QQitemZ320091390101QQihZ011QQcategoryZ26258QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem
Title: Re: Decking / Planking
Post by: Bryan Young on August 30, 2007, 07:35:05 PM
You can plasticard in all sorts of colours....
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/1-5mm-A4-Plasticard-hips-Plastic-Sheet-Art-Craft_W0QQitemZ320091390101QQihZ011QQcategoryZ26258QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem

OK I stand corrected. But do you think that a mega-bucks gin palace would have grey caulking? I think it would be white. Willing to be proved wrong though! But it would still be about 0.25"thick.(had to get that one in!). BY.
Title: Re: Decking / Planking
Post by: Colin Bishop on August 30, 2007, 07:43:59 PM
Quote
But do you think that a mega-bucks gin palace would have grey caulking? I think it would be white.

Yes, that's what you tend to see at the Boat Show - and why they make you take your shoes off before going aboard - and that's if you can blag an invite in the first place! Gin palaces are built to be looked at, not to do anything so vulgar as to go to sea!
Title: Re: Decking / Planking
Post by: kayem on August 30, 2007, 08:25:21 PM

Yes, that's what you tend to see at the Boat Show - and why they make you take your shoes off before going aboard - and that's if you can blag an invite in the first place! Gin palaces are built to be looked at, not to do anything so vulgar as to go to sea!


Very true. When I was involved with Moonraker Power Yachts, we used to get owners bringing year old examples back to the boatyard with the engine hours not even into three figures. When owners, probably the same ones, complained of poor performance, the service guys used to take them out to sea for an hour or so to give them a really good blast, after which they usually went a lot better.
Title: Re: Decking / Planking
Post by: dougal99 on August 30, 2007, 08:49:55 PM
When I lived in Spain the biggest boat in Puerto Banus never left the dockside in the three and a half years I was there. Always very clean though. The deck was too high to see the colour of the caulking from the dock.  ;)

Doug
Title: Re: Decking / Planking
Post by: Bryan Young on August 30, 2007, 10:51:50 PM
Quote
But do you think that a mega-bucks gin palace would have grey caulking? I think it would be white.

Yes, that's what you tend to see at the Boat Show - and why they make you take your shoes off before going aboard - and that's if you can blag an invite in the first place! Gin palaces are built to be looked at, not to do anything so vulgar as to go to sea!

Nice that you are still talking to me (or at me!) BY.
Title: Re: Decking / Planking
Post by: Colin Bishop on August 30, 2007, 11:13:33 PM
Always happy to discuss matters of common interest Bryan. We can all learn from your techniques in building superb models like Baroda. Have you thought of starting a build thread?
Title: Re: Decking / Planking
Post by: red181 on August 31, 2007, 12:12:14 AM
Thanks to all, Tigertiger, you are probably right about the true colour of the caulking, and bunkerbarge also. BY, its 4' long, Huntsman 28 (open rear cockpit), circa 1960,  1:12 scale?
THe same as in "From Russia with love". I was tempted to have the fuel barrells in the back, as in the film, but thats going too far (it would however hide some planking and  caulking!)
I picked up some sheets of grey plasticard for 10p each at the ellesmere show, looks like I dont need them now!
Paul
PS... Bryan, why would the insulation tape method not work on a model of this size? On the photos, the planks are quite narrow, and due to the deck being narrow there are not many of them, just wondering before I waste any time with the wrong method!
Title: Re: Decking / Planking
Post by: Bryan Young on August 31, 2007, 06:09:59 PM
Always happy to discuss matters of common interest Bryan. We can all learn from your techniques in building superb models like Baroda. Have you thought of starting a build thread?

Not really. For each model I make I try to find alternative ways of doing things. For an example (oh! not again!) I got fed up to the back teeth (if I had any) with some of the horrible results arising from using contact adhesive putting plasticard on to 2mm ply. Always seemed to "gas-up"- and this led me on to my favourite double-sided tape ((Not Again! I hear you shout). Another problem I have come up against is the "bleed" of superglue into veneer...it wrecks the veneer by bleedin in with a white stain. Maybe I should leave the unit for a day to "dry out".
To me, model building is not rocket science but just a matter of patience and "going the extra yard" so to speak. Many, many models would be so much better if the builders were not in so much of a rush to get the model finished and on the water. But it all comes down to what you want from a model I suppose. If you REALLY want to see a thread on my on-going build then I will do so, but I do not want to be accused of "hogging the site" like the last time around. PM me with your thoughts. Bryan.
Title: Re: Decking / Planking
Post by: Stavros on August 31, 2007, 06:25:51 PM
Having seem the Baroda it would be interesting to see your techniques of model building.If you are doing one how can you hijack the whole site it would be impossible to do so,so lets see you at work so to speak and lets all benefit from your years of kn owlage building models

Stavros
Title: Re: Decking / Planking
Post by: Colin Bishop on August 31, 2007, 06:51:31 PM
Quite agree with Stavros. We see your models more or less fully complete Bryan with only some coy hints as to how they got that way. A bit more info in the form of a build thread or just a series of short pieces on "how I did this" in respect of fittings or structural techniques would be welcome and informative.

Colin
Title: Re: Decking / Planking
Post by: Robert Davies on August 31, 2007, 06:52:01 PM
Raising our Game

A point that Bryan has made before is that we all should be encouraging each other to 'raise our game' in our modelling efforts. We can do this by knowledge transfer via the forum. Having seen the Baroda at EP I'm pretty sure that I could get a 'leg up' as it where, from studying and experimenting with some of the techniques that Bryan used during it's construction.

OK I'm singling Bryan out here.... but there are many people on the forum that have much to teach - Even such basic stuff as decking and planking, can be a minefield to the GRP and Plasticard era modeller such as myself. (Wood's funny stuff y'know....)

So go on Bryan, 'hog away!' :)

-Rob
Title: Re: Decking / Planking
Post by: Bryan Young on August 31, 2007, 06:56:47 PM
Having seem the Baroda it would be interesting to see your techniques of model building.If you are doing one how can you hijack the whole site it would be impossible to do so,so lets see you at work so to speak and lets all benefit from your years of kn owlage building models

Stavros

Thanks Stavros. Those are the kindest words you ever said to me!
OK. I will post an on-going "thingy" on my building of a ship called "General Havelock". Until recently there was a pub in North Shields called "The General Havelock". Pulled down to build a "Netto" (funny name for a shop?). The vessel was built in 1895 as s.s. "Leona" by Reids of Port Glasgow.
for the Humber Steam Shpping Co. Her displacement was about 1400 tons. (200' x 30' x 13'). She was bought by Hudsons of Sunderland and renamed in 1904. She traded between Sunderland and London from then until 1926 . She went eventually to Algerian owners and (I believe) she was not scrapped until 1948.
That is the pre-amble. Further posts will be under "Havelock" on the "our builds" thread. Hope youdon't get bored! BY.
Title: Re: Decking / Planking
Post by: Bryan Young on August 31, 2007, 07:19:42 PM
Thanks to all, Tigertiger, you are probably right about the true colour of the caulking, and bunkerbarge also. BY, its 4' long, Huntsman 28 (open rear cockpit), circa 1960,  1:12 scale?
THe same as in "From Russia with love". I was tempted to have the fuel barrells in the back, as in the film, but thats going too far (it would however hide some planking and  caulking!)
I picked up some sheets of grey plasticard for 10p each at the ellesmere show, looks like I dont need them now!
Paul
PS... Bryan, why would the insulation tape method not work on a model of this size? On the photos, the planks are quite narrow, and due to the deck being narrow there are not many of them, just wondering before I waste any time with the wrong method!

I had not realised that you were building at 1:12. I thought it had to be of a largish scale but you (originally) did not specify. At 1:12, insulation tape is far too thin. I have only ever built one model at 1:12 (Bluebird of Chelsea) and eventually reached the conclusion that using thin strips of plasticard (your choice of colour...but I would go for white) was the only way to go. I cannot recall the thickness I used but whatever thickness equates to about a quarter of an inch will be ok. Do not worry about bits sticking up...they will trim off very neatly when all else is set. BY.
Title: Re: Decking / Planking
Post by: Bryan Young on August 31, 2007, 07:22:38 PM
Quite agree with Stavros. We see your models more or less fully complete Bryan with only some coy hints as to how they got that way. A bit more info in the form of a build thread or just a series of short pieces on "how I did this" in respect of fittings or structural techniques would be welcome and informative.

Colin

OK. I gave in a few minutes ago. I surrender! Will do, but give me a bit of breathing space. BY.
Title: Re: Decking / Planking
Post by: Bryan Young on August 31, 2007, 07:52:40 PM
Raising our Game[b/]

A point that Bryan has made before is that we all should be encouraging each other to 'raise our game' in our modelling efforts. We can do this by knowledge transfer via the forum. Having seen the Baroda at EP I'm pretty sure that I could get a 'leg up' as it where, from studying and experimenting with some of the techniques that Bryan used during it's construction.

OK I'm singling Bryan out here.... but there are many people on the forum that have much to teach - Even such basic stuff as decking and planking, can be a minefield to the GRP and Plasticard era modeller such as myself. (Wood's funny stuff y'know....)

So go on Bryan, 'hog away!' :)

-Rob

Thanks for the comments. It helps me tremendously that I spent 40 years "at sea" (I guess that leave periods take up a proportion of that) but my ships ranged from  Cable Repair Ship "Lady Dennison Pender" (built in 1918) to RFA "Fort Victoria" of recent vintage. It was only in 1966 that I got interested in model ships....ships as opposed to "boats". My first efforts were disastrous. Looked great, but did'nt work. Try again. Then I built "Recorder" (still going strong from completion in 1982). All I did was to "raise my game" and think about it....with copious amounts of the amber nectar (noy the Aussie stuff). Thought and pre-planning is the big idea. Before I do ANYTHING I ask myself "what is the downside" or "how will this affect what I want to do later". I hate "architectural" models where everything is so neat,precise, exact and antiseptic without any feeling for the ship. Apart from the obvious like getting the verticals and horizontals about right. I tend to do the rest by eye. Apart from having a rather "old fashioned" way of thinking ....well, how does that work? or would a man really be able to that job? Stuff like that. And I think that that way of thinking makes my models looked "lived-in". Keep talking. BY.
Title: Re: Decking / Planking
Post by: Colin Bishop on August 31, 2007, 08:21:23 PM
Quote
I hate "architectural" models where everything is so neat,precise, exact and antiseptic without any feeling for the ship.

I couldn't agree more. A good model is a work of art which brings out the essence of the original.
Title: Re: Decking / Planking
Post by: J.beazley on September 09, 2007, 10:25:56 AM
Reading this entire thread ive come across the knowledge on how to plank which is great but noone has posted up many references to what width planks you use for different scales.

building in a scale around 1/100 im guessing the planks have got to be really small in width 3mm ??? :-\

Jay
Title: Re: Decking / Planking
Post by: malcolmfrary on September 09, 2007, 11:21:51 AM
Surely the width of the planking used depends not only on the scale, but on the width of planking used on the original.  At large scales this is noticable, at smaller scales it is probable that the correct width is not available from stock anyway, and it all comes down to creating a correct impression - rather than the exact number of planks across a deck, just the difference between "many, lots and lots 'n lots".
Title: Re: Decking / Planking
Post by: Colin Bishop on September 09, 2007, 11:48:32 AM
For many 20th century vessels I think you will find that deck planking should be around 5 to 6 inches wide. (Titanic had 5 inch planks). I believe that some of the older battleships may have had 9 inch planking when you could still easily get planking of these greater widths.

With regard to thickness, it is well known that most of us modellers are as thick as two short planks so this would act as a basis for calculation.... ;)
Title: Re: Decking / Planking
Post by: sinjon on September 09, 2007, 12:07:20 PM
I planked the decks of my Missouri 1:128 with advice from Ken Parker.
The plank length was 60mm, and the width 1.6mm. Hundreds if not thousands, it seemed to take forever,
all stuck down with Zap-a-Gap cyno. My fingers were always stuck together, I got through two bottles of de-bonder.
I now go Bryan's route, double sided tape and black insulation. Surprisingly quick once you get into the swing of it. Just finished the fore deck of my Bulldog at 1:48, plank length of 115mm x 2.9 wide (with caulking) now ready to trim out for bollards etc.

Colin
Title: Re: Decking / Planking
Post by: tigertiger on September 09, 2007, 12:07:45 PM
in a scale around 1/100 im guessing the planks have got to be really small in width 3mm ??? :-\

or if 5" (90mm) planks then 0.9 mm then  :o
Title: Re: Decking / Planking
Post by: DickyD on September 09, 2007, 02:02:52 PM
in a scale around 1/100 im guessing the planks have got to be really small in width 3mm ??? :-\

or if 5" (90mm) planks then 0.9 mm then  :o

5" used to be 125mm do the Chinese make them smaller to make them cheaper ? ??? :-\
Title: Re: Decking / Planking
Post by: DickyD on September 09, 2007, 02:21:32 PM

building in a scale around 1/100 im guessing the planks have got to be really small in width 3mm ??? :-\

Jay
That'll make your planks in real life sizes, 300mm or 12 inches Jay.  ::)
Title: Re: Decking / Planking
Post by: J.beazley on September 09, 2007, 05:34:58 PM
so im looking at even smaller then 3mm Richard, man this is hard work :D :D

Jay
Title: Re: Decking / Planking
Post by: DickyD on September 09, 2007, 05:40:17 PM
so im looking at even smaller then 3mm Richard, man this is hard work :D :D

Jay
5" or 125mm @ 1:100 scale is obviously 1.25 mm.
Rather you than me mate. O0
Title: Re: Decking / Planking
Post by: J.beazley on September 09, 2007, 05:43:44 PM
Will be sticking to the 3mm wide planks then  O0 see how i get on and see what she looks like then decide if they need to be thinner (i so hope not)

1.3mm wide would take me years to plank all 8 foot of her.

Jay
Title: Re: Decking / Planking
Post by: J.beazley on November 06, 2007, 07:32:50 PM
Right couldnt get on with 3mm wide planking so im going to plank the decks with 5mm wide planks as its easier.

What length should the planks be then now im planking in 5mm strips.
Will lay some planks down on the aft deck and maybe i shall start with my build thread for the battleship.

Jay
Title: Re: Decking / Planking
Post by: Ian Robins on November 07, 2007, 09:15:27 PM
Hi all,
one of our members (Northampton and District Model Boat Club), does his planking by getting a piece of wood the right plank size eg 90mm x 3mm then he paints one side with magic marker (black).
He then holds the wood in the vice and sets up a hand plane to cut a slither of wood on each pass.
After 5 mins he has a pile of wood shavings all curled together. Then all he does is straighten them and stick them to the sub deck.

Wood shavings to wood  - white wood glue
Wood shavings to plastic - Epoxy a piece of paper to the plastic and when dry plank the paper.
The resulting planking is very thin and very light ideal for small scale models. He is currently decking an Arfix Cutty Sark.

To see the result view any of the three square rigged boats on our club stand this weekend at leamington spa

ro88o0
Title: Re: Decking / Planking
Post by: Bryan Young on November 19, 2007, 07:22:20 PM
I reckon that planks were made and fitted according to the lengths of timber available at the time. I think that anything between 20' and 30' would be acceptable....in my experience the general length was about 20'. But to continue on this thread, really, does anyone measure the width of a plank to within a half millimetre? On most ships you will find that 4" or 5" wide was "the norm"...except for "Capital" ships where the width could be up to 9" or a bit more. At 1:48 scale I reckon that 1/8th" looks ok and at 1:96 then 1/16" will bear scrutiny....unless you build static models when "scale" is very important.
Title: Re: Decking / Planking
Post by: J.beazley on November 19, 2007, 09:08:23 PM
Well reading the thread over and over im planking with Matchsticks  :o
Ive started on the aft end first to see how it goes and well the 10,000 matchs i bought arent going to last long :-\

On the plus side it loooks rather good and will look even better with a coat of varnish over the top.

Jay
Title: Re: Decking / Planking
Post by: Brian_C on November 19, 2007, 09:56:17 PM
hi all, planking the decks is a long and boring task, but with time and effort it  can really make the model stand out to look the part, hms nelson 96th scale, took app 4.500 planks on the main deck and app 1.100 on the boat decks, i used basswood and black elec,s tape for the caulking,  i wold never score the decks again, plankings the way forward to give a more pleasing look to the eye,,,, brian_c  O0
Title: Re: Decking / Planking
Post by: Ron1 on November 19, 2007, 11:45:35 PM
I have planked my decks using the electrical tape for years, here,s some on IRON DUKE.
Title: Re: Decking / Planking
Post by: hazegry on January 19, 2009, 03:25:14 AM
wow those are great I have a question how are you doing the butt joints? I have got to do this on my next model
Title: Re: Decking / Planking
Post by: marion2009 on July 25, 2009, 06:52:18 PM
Has anyone built a yacht around 950mm [Robbe Comtesse] in length and planked the deck. I am wondering how much strip to buy as the postage is so expensive to have to buy twice.
I thought about 3mm x 0.6mm walnut strip.
Thanks.
Title: Re: Decking / Planking
Post by: tigertiger on July 26, 2009, 02:45:22 AM
Hi Marion the answer to this is, I don't know. But here is what I would do.

I would take a piece of paper and draw the outline of the deck area. Then draw on the planking arrangements at the width of plank used. Including the but joints at the ends of the planks, unless I was going to have a continous plank from fore to aft.

This will give me the number of pieces needed. I would then add for waste. If I was going to plank end to end in one go, I would add 4 or 5 planks, in case of breakage.

If there were going to be butt joints, I would make sure that a plank could give me two pieces of different length that I could use. I would also add about 10-15% for wastage, from breakage or cuts that did not work out.

If I were going to curve the planking, I would allow 20% for wastage as I know I will break stuff.

I would expect to have stuff left over at the end, but this would go into my box of timber bits for future models. Much better than running out.
Title: Re: Decking / Planking
Post by: suffolk1928 on January 17, 2013, 08:40:41 AM
Just planning a deck planking attempt- this thread has been very useful. Another method I've read about is running a soft pencil down the edges of the planks before laying to simulate caulking. Does anyone have any experience of how this compares with the electrical tape approach?
Thanks!
James
Title: Re: Decking / Planking
Post by: John W E on January 17, 2013, 09:33:04 AM
hi James will this help you
http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=33734.msg361505#msg361505 (http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=33734.msg361505#msg361505)
aye
john
Title: Re: Decking / Planking
Post by: Neil on January 17, 2013, 02:24:49 PM
Trawlerman has just used this method using the thick leaded carpenters pencil to very good results.
I myself use normal aliphatic resin glue, and put water based black paint in the glue mix and when the planks are squeezed together the glue oozes up to make the caulking effect.
it doesn't affect the properties of the glue either.
neil.
Title: Re: Decking / Planking
Post by: nemesis on January 19, 2013, 09:40:35 PM
Hi,I use the same method ie a soft pencil, to good effect. The deck then becomes as one when glued up in comparison to using tape etc. Remember the tape will act as a separator when gluing up therefore keeping each plank apart from its neighbour. It works for me. Nemesis
Title: Re: Decking / Planking
Post by: suffolk1928 on January 21, 2013, 06:14:08 PM
Thank you for the advice! Will try to post some photos of progress once I've got a bit done.
James