Model Boat Mayhem - Forum

Mess Deck: General Section => Tugs and Towing => Topic started by: tizdaz on November 04, 2016, 10:18:55 PM

Title: 71" (1.8m) TID Tug Build
Post by: tizdaz on November 04, 2016, 10:18:55 PM

Hiya guys / gals!


My first post here :)


Im waiting for the hull of my 71" (1.8m)TID Tug from Models By Design, about another 5 weeks as there made to order.


I feel like a child waiting for xmas, really looking forward to getting it :)


This will be the first time ive ever built from scratch (Except for the hull) The semi kit comes with the superstructure etc but im going to be making my own or at least alter the one that comes with it as I want to build the Anteo tug.


Below is a vid i found on youtube of the exact tug im getting:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4OfmE7moigc (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4OfmE7moigc)


And heres a pic from the website:
(http://www.modelsbydesign.co.uk/uploads/thumbs/thumb_432.jpg)


But this is what i'm aiming for:
(http://www.historicships.com/TALLSHIPS/Mantua/Anteo%20Tug%20MA743/AnteoWeb.jpg)


Ive been browsing around & looking up info for the build, I have plans/pics etc.. So far this is what I have in mind:

Motor
BF24 from MMM
(http://www.mobilemarinemodels.com/ekmps/shops/mobmarmods/images/bf24-motor-599-p[ekm]270x270[ekm].jpg)
12 pole - Hi Torque - Lo Rev - 24volt
Max revs 4000rpm
Shaft = dia. 8mm x 20mm long
Body size:-
OAL = 145mm
Dia. = 70mm

Prop Shaft
Maxline - 8mm thread http://www.mobilemarinemodels.com/maxline-2422-p.asp (http://www.mobilemarinemodels.com/maxline-2422-p.asp)

Prop

PropProp-Shop, Brass 6" Diamater (about 15cm) with 7" pitch (4 blade scale prop)

ESC
Im not too sure which ESC to get at the moment, im going to go for Mtroniks Viper Marine HV, but they come in 4 different flavours: 15amp/20amp/25amp & 40amp, so i'm not sure which one i should get thats best for my motor, any ideas?

I will be using 2x 12v Gel Cell batterys, again there's different types in terms of Ah, i was thinking around 7ah, but there also 10Ah, am i right in thinking that the Ah is basically the capacity, so the higher the Ah, the better the run times?

As for the actual build, im thinking of using 1.5mm ply for the superstructure & 3.5mm ply for the deck (i will be using 1.5mm planking on top of the deck)

Then for the bulkheads & battery base i'm thinking 10mm ply?

The rudder i'm going to have to make this myself out of brass, but i'm not sure what thickness of brass i should use, so any input in this would be great, at the mo i'm thinking around 3mm? The length of the rudder isgoing to be around 15cm as thats the diamater of the prop!

Anyway as soon as the hull arrives i will post some pics & throughout the build...no doubt i will be asking many questions and asking for advice during the build from the experts :)

Cheers :)

Daz

FAO Forum Dev, whenever im trying to post im having to go back into my post (using Modify) as all the font sizes get messed up, its auto putting the [ /size] tag in random places of my post!?
Title: Re: 71" (1.8m) TID Tug Build
Post by: Kipper on November 04, 2016, 10:58:19 PM
I hope you have a launching ramp where you sail, at 71" she's going to weigh heavy, not something
you can lift in & out of the lake by yourself I would think. My tug is a mere 35" & she weighs 2 stone.  :-)
Title: Re: 71" (1.8m) TID Tug Build
Post by: tizdaz on November 04, 2016, 11:14:25 PM
hiya :)


most of the weight will be in the ballast/batterys which i'm going to make removable to make transporting it doable, infact it would be almost impossible to move around (out of the water!) with the ballast!
Title: Re: 71" (1.8m) TID Tug Build
Post by: Stavros on November 05, 2016, 08:06:52 AM
You can usa a car batt in her.....as for a Esc i personally wouldn't waste my money on a mtronics.go for an ACTion one far more reliable and less likely to catch fire..........that reminds me i must finish mine


Dave
Title: Re: 71" (1.8m) TID Tug Build
Post by: Stavros on November 05, 2016, 08:12:43 AM
If memory serves me right Alan's Tid in the video used to run a 750kva brushless on a reduction gbox




Dave
Title: Re: 71" (1.8m) TID Tug Build
Post by: john44 on November 05, 2016, 09:12:40 AM
Hi, you state the motor is 24v and you are using 2 x 12v batteries, are you going to wire
The batteries in series = 24v or in parallel = 12v. If it's 24v check your esc can take that voltage
As most have a max of 12v.


John
Title: Re: 71" (1.8m) TID Tug Build
Post by: Stavros on November 05, 2016, 11:44:22 AM
 Thats why i said Action as they do one that will take the voltage


Dave
Title: Re: 71" (1.8m) TID Tug Build
Post by: tizdaz on November 05, 2016, 02:06:42 PM
Hiya guys :-)


Yup i will be running the batterys parallel (24v).


Im guessing the mtroniks esc is not very good then, thanks for the heads up, i will go and checkout the action one you mention :-)
Title: Re: 71" (1.8m) TID Tug Build
Post by: tizdaz on November 05, 2016, 02:18:17 PM
I jist had a look, that action ESC seems great, i looked at the diagram for it and it mentions the p92 distribution board, is that what id need for connecting power to things like lights/sound module and fog module etc? And should i connect to the main drive batterys or should i just use a seperate 12v gel cel for the modules so it leaves the drive batterys free purely for the motors?


Thanks :-)
Title: Re: 71" (1.8m) TID Tug Build
Post by: dougal99 on November 05, 2016, 02:24:42 PM
Nothing wrong with Mtroniks ESCs. I've used them for years with no problems. Before deciding what amperage capability you need, you need to know what amps your motor is going to pull. If you buy an MMM motor they should be able to give you some guidance.
Title: Re: 71" (1.8m) TID Tug Build
Post by: tizdaz on November 05, 2016, 03:23:41 PM
Ah oki doke thanks for that :-) 


Ive emailed MMM On few occasions asking for such info about motor but no replys :-(


How do the distribution boards work, im guessing it will let me power different devices with diff voltages from 1 power source (ie: 12v battery)?


Thanks
Title: Re: 71" (1.8m) TID Tug Build
Post by: Kipper on November 05, 2016, 03:31:23 PM
Ive emailed MMM On few occasions asking for such info about motor but no replys :-(

Try phoning them, Brian always tries to help customers where he can.
Title: Re: 71" (1.8m) TID Tug Build
Post by: David Shaw on November 05, 2016, 04:56:16 PM
Hi,
Mtronics have two 24v brush ESC. Designed to take fully charged 24v lead acid batteries or 6s lipo's.
Mtronics ESC are modern tec, not something designed last century. With excellent customer service. I have both brushed and brushless ESC from Mtronics. Never had any problems with them.

David
Title: Re: 71" (1.8m) TID Tug Build
Post by: Tiny69 on November 05, 2016, 04:57:53 PM
The action Power dist boards only distribute the same voltage that is supplied from the main battery, ie 6 - 12v, except the 5v BEC circuit for the radio receiver.  Have a look at the Action wesite via the component shop to view the many wiring diagrams showing how various components are connected together.

http://www.componentshop.co.uk/p92-power-distribution-board.html (http://www.componentshop.co.uk/p92-power-distribution-board.html)
Title: Re: 71" (1.8m) TID Tug Build
Post by: john44 on November 05, 2016, 04:59:46 PM
Hiya guys :-)


Yup i will be running the batterys parallel (24v).


Im guessing the mtroniks esc is not very good then, thanks for the heads up, i will go and checkout the action one you mention :-)


Hi, again,
running the 2 - 12v batteries in parallel will give you 12v not 24v they will have to be wired
In series for that voltage


John
Title: Re: 71" (1.8m) TID Tug Build
Post by: tizdaz on November 05, 2016, 06:27:01 PM
Hiya, yup my mistake was getting my wires crossed! lol :-)
Title: Re: 71" (1.8m) TID Tug Build
Post by: Tid 65 on November 11, 2016, 08:56:38 PM
Hi just a bit of info for you and hope it is helpful,I've got a 63inch tid,running gear is car radiator fan motor with plenty of power and cheap to buy, low 2-3 amp usage on a 4inch 4 blade prop,two 12volt 40amp wheel chair batteries for power and ballast,two 12volt 7amp batteries for smoke unit,2-3lb of water for smoke unit,8lb of lead in the stern,all up wait is 100lb.goes very well and stops easy,turns well and looks impressive on the water.of you want my rudder dimensions I'll let you know when I can measure it after the boat show this weekend because it's on our club stand.any more help you may need please ask and I'll try and help.
Title: Re: 71" (1.8m) TID Tug Build
Post by: tizdaz on November 11, 2016, 09:34:05 PM
Hiya tid :-)

Thanks alot for info much appreciated! Did you buy your motor from a scrap yard as ive had a good look online at car breaker sites but cant seem to find just the fan motor and theres lots of different ones which only come with the fan :-( also did you have to make your own motor mount?

Any pics of your tug :-) ?

Dont suppose you have a link for the battery you use for the motor by anychance?



Info for rudder would be great!


Thanks again! :-)
Title: Re: 71" (1.8m) TID Tug Build
Post by: Stavros on November 12, 2016, 08:27:33 AM
Look at the component shop website ....they are under the lead acid batt section.......stick a couple of 063 sized (they fit a mini/small car)car batts in it and connect them up for 24v


Dave
Title: Re: 71" (1.8m) TID Tug Build
Post by: tugmad on November 12, 2016, 01:09:38 PM
A couple of pictures of the 1/16th scale PBEverard that I built some years ago, fully scratch built,
Title: Re: 71" (1.8m) TID Tug Build
Post by: tugmad on November 12, 2016, 01:11:04 PM
A couple more.
Title: Re: 71" (1.8m) TID Tug Build
Post by: tizdaz on November 12, 2016, 01:14:30 PM
Hiya Starvos :)


I just had a look but the biggest I found on there was 35Ah: http://www.componentshop.co.uk/batteries/lead-acid/?___SID=U&capacity=258&voltage=146 (http://www.componentshop.co.uk/batteries/lead-acid/?___SID=U&capacity=258&voltage=146) which weigh in at around 10kg each


Ive been looking around and found some that are 40Ah & weigh around 14-15kg each which will help alot towards ballast, so ive been thinking...


Should i use:
2x 12v 40Ah (28kg) - For Motor only
1x 12v 20Ah (7kg) - For 12v Modules etc
1x 6v 10Ah (4kg) - For 6v Modules etc


This would give me a combined weight of just under 40kg, im guessing that the total weight of ballast i need for my tug will be around 50-55kg, but will know for sure as soon i get my hull & do a ballast test.


If i did decide to get the 40Ah batterys, would my charger still be suitable: http://www.logicrc.com/?ItemId=O-FS-LX60BP&s=c:0,c:40 (http://www.logicrc.com/?ItemId=O-FS-LX60BP&s=c:0,c:40)
And maybe i should invest in another charger so i can charge 2 batterys at a time?


Cheers :)
Title: Re: 71" (1.8m) TID Tug Build
Post by: tizdaz on November 12, 2016, 01:17:53 PM
@tugmad


Great looking TID you got there :)


What size prop is she running?
Title: Re: 71" (1.8m) TID Tug Build
Post by: tugmad on November 12, 2016, 01:20:40 PM
Hi Tidtaz    110mm   X. 4 blades on a 5 MM shaft,  MG  roadster 12 volt Cooling fan motor
Title: Re: 71" (1.8m) TID Tug Build
Post by: tizdaz on November 12, 2016, 02:44:59 PM
Hi Tidtaz    110mm   X. 4 blades on a 5 MM shaft,  MG  roadster 12 volt Cooling fan motor


Brilliant thanks! :-)
Title: Re: 71" (1.8m) TID Tug Build
Post by: tizdaz on November 16, 2016, 10:23:06 PM
Oki doke!


Ball is rolling now, en route is my motor, batterys, Action Electronics have also sorted me out a modified P103 for my 24v setup which will be 4x 12v 20Ah batteries linked in Parallel/series combo to give me 24v 40Ah (gareth) was the chap i spoke to, very good chap indeed and knows his stuff (unlike me!). I was also going to buy the P98 ESC from them but they out of stock at mo :-( so will have to wait. Ive also splashed out on 1 of those soldering iron helping hands things as ive got a feeling im going to need it!


Going to pick up some materials for the build this week in terms of wood/fillers and glues etc, clock is ticking, about 3 more weeks for my hull to be ready!!


Will also order the prop this week which is from Prop-Shop but going to wait to order the shaft until hull arrives as i will need to measure the length i need.


Anyway im.really excited about this build, cant wait lol :-)
Title: Re: 71" (1.8m) TID Tug Build
Post by: Stavros on November 16, 2016, 10:48:13 PM
If you know what the thread size of the prop then Ill measure my shaft for you and then if you contact Steve form Model boat bits he will make you one exactly the same as mine....Sorry to say this but you WILL NOT Buy a better shaft ANYWHERE


Dave
Title: Re: 71" (1.8m) TID Tug Build
Post by: tizdaz on November 16, 2016, 11:05:16 PM
Hiya mate, well my motor shaft is 8mm so im going to try keep it all at 8mm to keep it simple, i was going to get the shaft from MMM along with the coupling etc, the prop will have an 8mm thread but i need to ring prop shop to make sure they can do 8mm :-)
Title: Re: 71" (1.8m) TID Tug Build
Post by: derekwarner on November 17, 2016, 12:09:00 AM
If this is the motor you are to use [with the 8mm output shaft] you are off to a very good start

The image shows a very robust mount frame which is secured to both ends of the motor

Take a leaf from full size installation and consider construction of a mating frame assembly with the same footprint to be epoxied into the hull, however with four M? studs securely fixed to the frame......with nuts and lock nuts you will have a motor fame that can be accurately adjusted for true alignment with the angle of the prop shaft, but also adjustment for true alignment with the axis of the prop shaft

Using an 8mm shaft may infact require two shorter sub tube assemblies [for adequate support], as opposed to one continuous outer tube

I suspect the 8mm diameter shaft will require an outer tube of say 14mm :o

Keep us posted as this drive will be of interest to many  O0

Derek
Title: Re: 71" (1.8m) TID Tug Build
Post by: tizdaz on November 17, 2016, 11:24:22 AM
Hiya Derek :)


Indeed that is the one!


Im going to be ordering the prop shaft from MMM probably as they sell one which has 8mm shaft & 12.5mm tube: http://www.mobilemarinemodels.com/maxline-2422-p.asp they also do custom size couplings :)


No probs about keeping you updated i will be posting my progress regulary on this topic :)



Title: Re: 71" (1.8m) TID Tug Build
Post by: tizdaz on November 17, 2016, 02:12:27 PM
First couple of bits arrived, 2 of the 4 batteries, they only had 2 in stock! :( & motor, i gave the motor a quick test, working fine & very quiet, but i'm going to need to get a sprocket removal tool prob as its on solid!


(http://www.cherryhilldaynursery.co.uk/bt/batts.jpg)
(http://www.cherryhilldaynursery.co.uk/bt/motor1.jpg)
(http://www.cherryhilldaynursery.co.uk/bt/motor2.jpg)
Title: Re: 71" (1.8m) TID Tug Build
Post by: tizdaz on November 17, 2016, 03:28:08 PM
Heres wiring diagram that A.Electronics sent me for wiring up my batts to the modified P103 they have done for me which in total will give me 40Ah & 24 Volt..


(http://www.cherryhilldaynursery.co.uk/bt/thumbnail_4batts.jpg)
Title: Re: 71" (1.8m) TID Tug Build
Post by: Fastfaz on November 18, 2016, 07:59:54 AM
Hi,
  That splined end looks exactly like the one that was on my motor and if it is the same its quite soft metal, I removed mine by carefully hack sawing both sides the splitting the metal (slowly and with care). Hope this helps.
    Cheers,
          Pete.
Title: Re: 71" (1.8m) TID Tug Build
Post by: Netleyned on November 18, 2016, 08:27:10 AM
I have removed them by carefully
cutting along the groove in the splines
with a cutting disc in a dremel.
Ned
Title: Re: 71" (1.8m) TID Tug Build
Post by: tizdaz on November 18, 2016, 06:18:04 PM
hey guys :)


i was thinking of using my dremmel but wasnt too sure, but if its a soft metal will give it a shot & cut inbetween splines as mentioned, cheers guys :)


On another note, i have just recieved the mount from MMM... fine piece of kit i must say, looks solid & very well built. But my motor is way too small for it & the mount is for the BF24 that MMM sell.


So I think im going to buy the BF24 motor from MMM, its quite pricey but it will be a solid & secure & its also 12 poles so im guessing will have much more torque than this motor I have which is 150watt.


I will keep the 150watt motor & use it on a smaller build in the future :)


Anyway here some pics of the mount & then a pic of mount with my motor which you can see it falls way short for the mount.


(http://www.cherryhilldaynursery.co.uk/bt/motor_mount3.jpg)
(http://www.cherryhilldaynursery.co.uk/bt/motor_mount2.jpg)
(http://www.cherryhilldaynursery.co.uk/bt/motor_mount.jpg)
Title: Re: 71" (1.8m) TID Tug Build
Post by: derekwarner on November 18, 2016, 07:31:57 PM
Daz....

Electric motor [pairs] of poles is a design function which dictates speed......you can think of torque is a by product of speed...[but at the expense of current draw]

Clearly the motor mount has been incorrectly ordered or incorrectly supplied........could you not return it for a replacement of the same sizing as you previously displayed which suits the ZY 6812 [24 volt - 150W motor] ?

Derek
Title: Re: 71" (1.8m) TID Tug Build
Post by: tizdaz on November 19, 2016, 12:18:13 AM
Hi Derek :)


The Motor & Mount are from 2 seperate places, when i bought the mount i did so knowing that i may need to modify it for the motor i already have to fit, however the advert for the motor i have bought stated that the barrel was 135mm in length, however i have just measured it & its actually 105mm... 32mm shorter than advertised! If i knew it was only 105mm i would not have bought it as i knew the mount i was going to get was for a motor with a barrel length of 155mm. So i've sent them an email to the motor supplier, not that its going to make any difference unless they have sent me the wrong motor by mistake.


But i have a couple of options..


I could get a mount made to fit this motor or i could buy the motor from MMM which will fit prefectly in the mount i bought from them & put this motor to the side for another build in future.


Marks Model Bits offer bespoke engineering service so im going to drop them a message about fixing a mount up for this motor, i know the mount is a simple piece of kit but i dont have the right tools or i would make my own :(


The only thing im worrying about at the moment is if this motor will have enough power to drive my tug which will have a 15cm diamater prop, the motor is 24 volt & ive tested it on the bench at seems to have plenty of torque etc but i dont have any tool for measuring its power etc so the proof will be "in the pudding" as they say once i get the hull & give it an actual test :)
Title: Re: 71" (1.8m) TID Tug Build
Post by: tizdaz on November 24, 2016, 09:07:32 PM
I spoke to andy from Models by Design today, my hull is ready, sooner than expected!! Picking it up saturday, about a 520 mile round trip! Be worth it though :-)
Title: Re: 71" (1.8m) TID Tug Build
Post by: Stavros on November 24, 2016, 09:44:21 PM
As you are going down to collect your hull...WHY NOT ASK the man himself what motor and prop you should be using ...






Dave


ps...make sure your car is big enough...as boy oh boy did I get some funny looks off a copper as the Tid was uspide down on my head....OH by the way the car was a Corsa and was allready full of boats etc having been to Wickstead



Title: Re: 71" (1.8m) TID Tug Build
Post by: tizdaz on November 24, 2016, 11:05:30 PM
Hiya,


Ive already asked he just said a big one lol :-( but ive got this one here im going to try so will see how it is, my car a c4 grand picasso (7seater) ive measured the space with all rear seats down and it will fit in, its the first thing i checked before i ordered it lol :-)


Prop wise is what i originally thought, 6" (15cm) 4 blade, prop-shop also confirmed that this should be ideal, so as soon i get the hull and measure it to make sure the prop will fit, i will then place the order for it :-)



Title: Re: 71" (1.8m) TID Tug Build
Post by: tizdaz on November 27, 2016, 02:08:47 PM
Well, picked up my hull yesterday, after a long (but enjoyable drive of around 10 hour round trip) I have to say, the Hull is a piece of art, very nice craftsmanship.. i don't know too much about fibreglass hulls but I know enough to say Andy has done an excellent job & hes also a very nice chap!


Few pics below, to give a small reference to the size, ive placed a can of pop next to it in a couple of the pictures!


(http://www.cherryhilldaynursery.co.uk/bt/hull.png)


(http://www.cherryhilldaynursery.co.uk/bt/hull1.png)


(http://www.cherryhilldaynursery.co.uk/bt/hull2.png)


As ive mentioned earlier, im building the tug based on the Anteo so i'm probably going to be making my own superstructure out of ply, or i will modify the fibreglass one that came with the hull, but will see :)


Let the FUN begin!! : :D :D  :D
Title: Re: 71" (1.8m) TID Tug Build
Post by: tugmad on November 27, 2016, 05:15:11 PM
That looks really nice Tidtaz, but I hope you put the superstructure the other end 😂😂😂😂👍👍👍👍😇😇😇
Title: Re: 71" (1.8m) TID Tug Build
Post by: captain bligh on November 27, 2016, 05:54:21 PM
Hi'ay
Can I just ask where you got your original motor from??
cheers
Mike  :-))
Title: Re: 71" (1.8m) TID Tug Build
Post by: tizdaz on November 27, 2016, 06:00:32 PM
That looks really nice Tidtaz, but I hope you put the superstructure the other end 😂😂😂😂👍👍👍👍😇😇😇


haha! :D


i was waiting to see if anyone noticed (honest!!) :D


couple of more pics & also another goody arrived in post in form of a P103 board from Action, this is a modified version of the P103 as it will be running 24v on 4x 12v gel cells that i'm going to be running in series/parallel setup.


(http://www.cherryhilldaynursery.co.uk/bt/hull3.png)


(http://www.cherryhilldaynursery.co.uk/bt/hull4.png)


(http://www.cherryhilldaynursery.co.uk/bt/p103.png)


Daz :)
Title: Re: 71" (1.8m) TID Tug Build
Post by: tizdaz on November 27, 2016, 06:03:19 PM
Hi'ay
Can I just ask where you got your original motor from??
cheers
Mike  :-))


Hiya, sure it was from Ebay but i'm still yet to test it, its a 24v 150watt, 3500rpm, its basically a scooter motor, so if it can shift a person around on a scooter at around 10mph then it should be fine pushing the tug along, time will tell i've almost finished making a mount for it, MMM also do a 24volt motor which (if this one i already have ain't upto the task) i will probably buy the one from MMM :)
Title: Re: 71" (1.8m) TID Tug Build
Post by: captain bligh on November 27, 2016, 06:20:14 PM
Thanks for that tizdaz  :-)) :-))  will be following your build  O0
Mike

Title: Re: 71" (1.8m) TID Tug Build
Post by: tizdaz on November 27, 2016, 07:46:14 PM
no probs captain bligh :)
Title: Re: 71" (1.8m) TID Tug Build
Post by: rhavrane on November 27, 2016, 08:12:52 PM
Bonjour Tizdaz,
No problem with your choice, you do not need a lot of power to push or pull even a large boat, my tug Jan has just a Stuart D10 and see what it can do with less than 2 bars od steam pressure (the launch weighs about 450 kilos!) : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BPPux5exRNE
Idemwith my Moulay-Idris : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8BZAgnvt6E  :-))
Title: Re: 71" (1.8m) TID Tug Build
Post by: tizdaz on November 27, 2016, 10:32:45 PM
Hi rhavrane :)


Thanks for the info, Very impressive videos! Lovely tug also!
Title: Re: 71" (1.8m) TID Tug Build
Post by: rhavrane on November 28, 2016, 08:21:36 AM
Bonjour Tizdaz,
I have to confess that I know by experience how an electric engine is quite more powerful than an elsewhere powerful steam boat.

Have a glance to this video and see how a simple Power 1000 pulls my 20 cm3 Reeves Warrior MK3 tug Moulay-Idris :  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HF0bGRDXGjA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HF0bGRDXGjA)
Title: Re: 71" (1.8m) TID Tug Build
Post by: derekwarner on November 28, 2016, 08:31:47 AM
Raphael....... >>:-(.....this a bad example...........1000W of steam power @ the shaft, must equal 1000W of electric power @ the shaft

Clearly the power of one tug was greater than the power of the other

Derek
Title: Re: 71" (1.8m) TID Tug Build
Post by: tizdaz on December 08, 2016, 10:18:58 PM
Just finished making the mount, seems solid! :)


I used 3mm aluminium sheet & 10mmx10mm brass bars


(http://www.tizdaz.co.uk/boat/img/mount/motor_mount_bars.jpg)

Got my Tap & Die set out.. (i used some green tape as a depth marker for the thread).
(http://www.tizdaz.co.uk/boat/img/mount/motor_mount_tap2.jpg)


Finished mount
(http://www.tizdaz.co.uk/boat/img/mount/mount.jpg)
(http://www.tizdaz.co.uk/boat/img/mount/mount2.jpg)
(http://www.tizdaz.co.uk/boat/img/mount/mount3.jpg)
(http://www.tizdaz.co.uk/boat/img/mount/mount4.jpg)
Title: Re: 71" (1.8m) TID Tug Build
Post by: tizdaz on December 13, 2016, 01:42:10 AM
Just a bit of an update:
Hull Preparation..
First thing is to prep the hull, this involves sanding down the rough edges of the fibreglass for a smooth finish, I will then then be adding some wooden supports within the hull for the deck (Bulkheads/Deck Beams) & also for the areas where electronics, batterys & motor are going to be placed, For added strength I will be applying some U-Pol Easy 1 all around the inside of the Bulwark & also on top of the plywood deck once fitted & then sanded down for a smooth finish. I will also reinforced the bottom of hull using a piece of ply with a thickness of 10mm fixed in place using some P40, this is where the batterys are going to be seated so it was essential that I reinforced it as the total weight of the batterys will be around 30kg.


Making the bulkheads is quite tricky as i want as much as a snug fit to the hull shape as posisble! ..In the end I bought myself a Plastic French Curve, which is basically a piece of lead coated in rubber which can be bent to any shape & hold its form, which means it is ideal for getting the shape of my hull for making the bulkheads, I used some cardboard for the template to make sure the shape was correct, once I was happy the shape was correct I then used the carboard template to copy over onto the 9mm ply.
(http://www.chalonerautorepair.co.uk/tmp/img/hullprep.jpg)
i managed to do a bit more of the bulkheads, I cut them out of ply & fit pretty snug, got 3 more left to do then I i will fix them in place using P40, they are spaced 25cm apart (5 in total), before being fixed in, the center of each of the bulkheads will be cut out square to allow me to fit a base which is where the electrics/batterys etc will be seated.

I used a bendy ruler for basic hull shape then transferred to cardboard, then taped smaller pieces of cardboard to plug the gaps to get snug fit, I then used the cardboard template to cut the bulkhead out of ply, Last pic is checking the deck sits flush on top of bulkhead..
(http://www.tizdaz.co.uk/boat/img/hullprep/bulkheads.png)

And heres what she looks like at the mo:

(http://www.tizdaz.co.uk/boat/img/hullprep/9.png)(http://www.tizdaz.co.uk/boat/img/hullprep/6.png)
For my very 1st build im happy so far, yup i know it's only a couple of bulkheads & motor mount, but the amount of time its taken just to get this far is alot! ..but im happy so far with the results

Motor & Mount
The motor I'm going to use is a 24-Volt, 150watt which has around 3000rpm. Current draw should be around 6-7amps (its basically a scooter motor so should be more than enough for pushing the tug along at scale speed using direct drive, The motor came supplied with a steel gear fitted onto the shaft & it was on solid! ..I had to use a Gear Puller removal tool to get it off, the shaft has a flat spot which is good for the grub screw when fitting the coupling. The mount I made out of 10mm x 10mm square brass rods for the base & 3mm Aluminium Sheet for the end plates.


I cut 2 lengths (100mm) of the brass bar & then I used a tap to make a thread at each end of the bars
(http://www.chalonerautorepair.co.uk/tmp/img/brassbar.jpg)


I then cut the 2 end plates out of the Aluminium sheeting & cut out the holes & then fixed the motor to the mount using bolts
(http://www.chalonerautorepair.co.uk/tmp/img/mmount.jpg)


I'm pleased with the outcome of the mount, its very solid and has 4 mounting holes (2 either side) to fix it to the base, this will make removing/inserting the motor for maintenance fairly simple.

Prop & Prop Shaft & Rudder..
Prop I'm going to use will be a 5" 4 Blade along with a 12.5mm Brass outer with an 8mm stainless steel inner shaft with oiler, coupling will probably be 8mm plain (motor output shaft) to 8mm threaded (drive shaft) but not 100% sure yet. The rudder will be made out of copper sheet & hot welded to the rudder post & then 2mm wood planking either side of the rudder to finish it off.
(http://www.chalonerautorepair.co.uk/tmp/img/prop_shaft.jpg)


Im going to continue with making the rest of bulkheads & then I will sort the deck out which will be 5.6mm ply


Daz
Title: Re: 71" (1.8m) TID Tug Build
Post by: tizdaz on December 14, 2016, 02:46:08 AM
Added a couple of more bulkheads..


(http://www.tizdaz.co.uk/boat/img/hullprep/10.png)
(http://www.tizdaz.co.uk/boat/img/hullprep/11.png)
Title: Re: 71" (1.8m) TID Tug Build
Post by: Martin [Admin] on December 14, 2016, 12:30:29 PM
 
How does outside the hull look?
 No 'bulkhead' ripples I hope.
Title: Re: 71" (1.8m) TID Tug Build
Post by: tizdaz on December 14, 2016, 04:22:14 PM
Hey :-)


Nah no ripples, but they not fixed in yet, i will be making a start on fixing them in with p40 tomoz, but when in place they just sit nicely (not forced etc) so should all be good hopefully! :-)
Title: Re: 71" (1.8m) TID Tug Build
Post by: Stavros on December 14, 2016, 04:39:54 PM
Thats why i didnt bother putting bulkhead in mine....being a thick lay up ....others who have built the hull havnt done so as well.....Each to their own I suppose......I agree Martin bulkheads have their places definatly on wooden hulls and styrene and thinly laid up hulls...but they do have a nastly habit of showing up down the side of the hulls.This is simply due to the chemical reaction causing a heat transfer thus slightly deforming the side thus bulkheads showing down the side of the hull.

As i had explained all the hull needs is some wood along the sides to support the deck with wood port to stbd as supports.


I personally  wouldnt even be thinking of a deck let alone bulkheads at the mo till I had sorted the Motor and shaft alignment let alone the rudder and linkage....


WHY may you ask....well as I have built this hull   and now due to a shaft bending I have to work through the hull to gain acces,even thought it is a large hull...believe you Me it is going to be a right palava to get at the shaft to seal it up inside and to be honest with you there aint a lot of room between the deck and hull




Dave
Title: Re: 71" (1.8m) TID Tug Build
Post by: Fastfaz on December 14, 2016, 07:00:35 PM
  I cannot agree more with Stav re fitting the propshaft,motor and rudder etc while you have the freedom of an open hull, as he says if you have a problem later on its a complete b+++++d to correct. Some time ago I had a problem with the shaft on the bowthruster in one of my tugs and boy was that difficult to cut out and repair! a bit like wallpapering your hall through the letterbox. I also agree about the bulkheads especially if you are using P40 the heat it generates is amazing as it cures, if you want some photos of how to do the deck (i.e. cross supports) PM me and I'll email you some.
    Cheers,
        Pete. :-)) :-)) :-))
Title: Re: 71" (1.8m) TID Tug Build
Post by: tizdaz on December 14, 2016, 08:26:18 PM
hi guys :)


I'm fitting bulkheads, not for strength of hull, but mainly for support of the base where batterys are going to sit & support for the deck, You mentioned your deck was made out of fibreglass & you also fibreglassed the bottom of your hull for extra strength stav, i don't really have that option as i've never used fibreglass before so i dont want to chance it making a f*%k up! but i'm quite handy with wood so for me using ply for the deck & bottom of hull is the better option, the bulkheads are barely touching the sides of hull (just enough to stop them from falling when free standing) i was going to use P40 to fix them in place but after what Fastfaz mentioned about generating heat i can see why this may cause a ripple effect, so i might have another look around for a more suitable bonding glue so any suggestions would be great :) ?


Aye I have no intention of fixing the drive gear in place before deck is fitted, but in the mean time I will get the deck cut to shape etc so its ready to go in, & with it being ply it will have  some flex allowing me to slot it into place so i maybe able to fit it in as a single piece, if not then i will have to fit it in seperate pieces like you have done with your fibreglass deck, i just wont fix it in place until everything below deck is done including the wiring.
Title: Re: 71" (1.8m) TID Tug Build
Post by: tizdaz on December 14, 2016, 08:59:03 PM
Would this be better than P40 in terms of fixing the bulkheads to hull so it doesn't cause any deformation to the hull as mentioned above?

P40 http://www.halfords.com/motoring/paints-body-repair/fillers-preparation/u-pol-glass-fibre-repair-paste-900ml (http://www.halfords.com/motoring/paints-body-repair/fillers-preparation/u-pol-glass-fibre-repair-paste-900ml)


or what about Gorilla Glue?

ta!
Title: Re: 71" (1.8m) TID Tug Build
Post by: Stavros on December 14, 2016, 09:15:14 PM
NO as it is the same thing......ALL you NEED to do to strengthen the hull to take the weight of the batts is to lay a piece of ply on the bottom of the hull with P40 THAT IS ALL and simply run a fillet of P40 around the edge of the wood.I will Guarantee you it will not move


Yes I glassed my deck in and the wood simply because I know what I am doing and if you REMEBER right I DID OFFER to glass the deck in for you. ....NO brainer then is it....You will as I have said and Fastfaz have pointed out you WILL run the risk with bulkheads of having outlines of them along the hull....


Bonding in deck supports along the length of the hull and the odd one port to stbd will NOT deform the hull in any way at all.


Dave

Title: Re: 71" (1.8m) TID Tug Build
Post by: tizdaz on December 14, 2016, 10:16:01 PM
hiya mate!


Aye i ain't forgot you offered to do it fella & was muchos appreciated ;) , I just wanted to have a go at doing it myself really as I need to learn & the best way of learning (imo!) is to get hands on & do it myself as this will be the 1st of hopefully a few builds for myself, i got the idea of using bulkheads from off net, i think one of the places i read about it was kingston Mouldings who use ply bulkheads in there fibreglass hull builds using P40 so i thought it would be ok.


Is the problem with using bulkheads due to them pressing against hull causing them to "rib" the hull or is it something else? I ask because if its the first, I've read up that leaving a couple of mil gap between the actual bulkhead & hull & then filling the gap with P40 is the way to do it?
Title: Re: 71" (1.8m) TID Tug Build
Post by: Stavros on December 14, 2016, 11:02:33 PM
Read the previous post properly.........one word HEAT

What you have got to remember is that the hulls from Kinston Mouldings are SMALLER than this tug and they are thinner....and I don't mean that they are of an inferior build quality either...before someone gets on his High horse !!!!!!


Because they are smaller they are laid up lighter...in other words THINNER...and here lies the clue...as they are Thinner is means they will NEED bulkheads....your Hull is a heavyweight and thus simply don't need bulkheads




Dave


Title: Re: 71" (1.8m) TID Tug Build
Post by: Ron Rees on December 14, 2016, 11:29:09 PM
Used to build canoe hulls (Full size) for the club at school and they needed two wooden bulkheads. P40 or similar will definately generate heat and the thicker your spatula is (Thumb!!) the hotter it will get. The wood bulkheads could be fairly loose, that is not the problem, its the heat generated that forms the ripples, which will always be there if you do it that way.


Do NOT use Gorilla Polyurethane glue, you'll get in a right old mess.


  Cut out the bulkhead centres as you planned, then cut strips of 1 inch wide Glassfibre tape (You can buy this on the roll) Using a throwaway shiney surface, old tile, glass, piece of laminate etc, paint GRP resin onto the tape and place into position in the corners where the wood and the hull meet. Do one side of as many as you can and let them harden, This does not generate as much heat, although there is a slight risk if you slap too much resin on.
When dry go round and do the other side.  (You can also buy GRP rope which is also good)


This is only what we used for canoes...PS. The foam was sprayed in front of the front bulkhead and behind the rear one, through 2 inch holes for bouyancy aids in case of damage. This could work with yours as well


I also agree with the others, have your running gear/motor mounts set up next, before the bulkheads, much easier.


Just my opinion.....Ron.
Title: Re: 71" (1.8m) TID Tug Build
Post by: tizdaz on December 15, 2016, 10:24:27 PM
oki doke, going to take the experts words of wisdom & go back to beams & scrap the bulkheads!


but.. because ive already made 4 bulkheads, would it be ok to cut them right down so i just have the bottom quater of them to basically sit a piece of ply on them for the base for battery etc? or should i not bother... only because seems a bit of a waste if i have to bin them?


would this still cause the hull to have the rib effect ya think ?
Title: Re: 71" (1.8m) TID Tug Build
Post by: Stavros on December 15, 2016, 11:13:53 PM
YES


As in Previous post sit some ply in some P40 along the bottom of the hull and there you go




Dave
Title: Re: 71" (1.8m) TID Tug Build
Post by: captain bligh on December 16, 2016, 11:38:56 AM
I've seen many a time on full scale boats when someone has put the frames in at 500mm centres and made the mix to hot and put three lays of (2oz glass) sorry still work in old money  %) . Or should I say 3x 600 gram glass and pulled a hull to pieces hull being maybe 1/2"-3/4" thick that is just down to heat build up.On a dark hull it smacks you in the face from 100 paces  :embarrassed:


Mike
Title: Re: 71" (1.8m) TID Tug Build
Post by: tizdaz on January 03, 2017, 01:58:57 AM
quick update,


Fitted a couple of beams and will be adding a 3rd, i will then add beams length ways joining them together, this will give a solid base for the deck to sit on, also a few more bits arrived in post, brass sheet for rudder, some flux, silver solder, connectors, 14awg wire, Titebond 2 premium wood glue (tested this out & have to say it bonds like cement, even when I tried to rip the 2 glued pieces apart it basically split the wood, the glue didn't give!.. Highly recommend this stuff for your wood glue & also water proof. And also picked up a butane gun for my silver soldering.


I'm now waiting for a brass strip & a 12" 4mm prop shaft to arrive so I can build the rudder (nope the 4mm prop shaft is NOT for the drive!) ...but i will be chopping it up for mounting the rudder! (cheers dave for the tip!) For the drive I will be ordering a Prop-Shaft & Prop shortly, I've decided to go with a 4.5" 4 blade prop. Also for the rudder servo its a toss up between the mpex rhino digi4 (i use these in my large scale off road models for the past 15 years pretty much) have around 25kg of torque which will be plenty for the rudder but also a VERY good & reliable servo. But ive also been looking at the SAVOX SW-0231MG which is a fully waterproof servo with 15kg torque which again is more than enough torque and also over half the price of the mpex, so will have a think, I will prob go for the savox simply because its waterproof which is a bonus for obvious reasons


When i was fitting the beams i used a piece of ply that i will be using for the deck & clamped in place to give the correct angle for the beam to be fixed..
(http://www.tizdaz.co.uk/boat/forum/beamsfit.jpg)
(http://www.tizdaz.co.uk/boat/forum/beamsfit2.jpg)
(http://www.tizdaz.co.uk/boat/forum/beamsfit3.jpg)


Beams fitted (need to add 1 more at the stern) you can also see the markers on the forward beam which is the point where i will be running beams length ways
(http://www.tizdaz.co.uk/boat/forum/beams.jpg)


Bottom braces, (not fixed in yet with epoxy and also need to fit 1 more at the stern) but will be shortly, i will be placing a 12mm piece of ply on the top which is where the batterys & electrics etc will be seated
(http://www.tizdaz.co.uk/boat/forum/bottombrace.jpg)






Heres a few of my bits ordered..
(http://www.tizdaz.co.uk/boat/forum/fewbits.jpg)
Title: Re: 71" (1.8m) TID Tug Build
Post by: derekwarner on January 03, 2017, 03:06:54 AM
Daz.........just to clarify %)....

Titebond II is listed and marketed as water resistant under 'ANSI Type II water-resistance test criteria
Titebond III is listed and marketed as water proof under 'ANSI Type I water-resistance test criteria

My understanding this latter product is the only white glue [easy cleanup, non foaming like that Gorrrrrrila >>:-( glue] marketed that has the water Proof word on the label

I also understand you would literally need water sloshing around & not drained out for an extended period for the Titebond II to fail.......then again that criteria does sound like the bilge in a model boat  :o

Derek
Title: Re: 71" (1.8m) TID Tug Build
Post by: Stavros on January 03, 2017, 07:49:59 AM
If thats the torch you got to do the silver soldeeing  then simply forget it you need propane and not butane to do that job...been there had the tee shirt


Dave
Title: Re: 71" (1.8m) TID Tug Build
Post by: tizdaz on January 03, 2017, 11:33:56 AM
hiya mate


as long its done in a warm area so the butane liquid isn't cold then it burns just as hot as propane, but im also going to use rosin flux and a soldering block i have to do the work on which reflects the heat which helps big time with silver soldering, ive done it this way in the past, only a couple of times but it worked ok so fingers crossed \o/


what SS did you use as at the mo i'm still looking around as i don't want to buy a whole reel for just this little job but cant seem to find anything but full spools?
Title: Re: 71" (1.8m) TID Tug Build
Post by: Stavros on January 03, 2017, 04:53:31 PM
Er i dont use reels of it i use sticks off ebay


Dave
Title: Re: 71" (1.8m) TID Tug Build
Post by: tizdaz on January 03, 2017, 08:47:03 PM
Aye found some, i was looking for easy flo 2 but it got replaced with silver flo 55 couple of years ago which was why i couldnt find it lol, all sorted now though cheers dude :-)
Title: Re: 71" (1.8m) TID Tug Build
Post by: tizdaz on January 10, 2017, 06:19:46 AM
Bit of an update


Made a start on the wiring for the batterys..
I Hot Soldered the wires to the ring terminals, & then soldered the wires to the connectors, Ive added connectors throughout the wiring setup to allow me to remove/insert 1 battery at a time as a majority of the of time I will be sailing this on my own, so I need to make it so I can transport it on my own with ease, so being able to remove/insert 1 battery at a time was a must as each battery weighs around 7kg, this will allow me to fit/remove the batterys with the hull in the water which in turn will make transporting the hull to & from the water very simply (& light!). This is 1 of 2 pairs of batterys that will be hooked up to a modified P103 distribution board.


Ive also fixed the motor to a piece of 9mm ply, As you can see, I fixed it in place using bolts passed through from the underside, I did it this way so the motor can be removed/inserted with ease if needed just by loosening/tightening the 4 nuts then the motor can then be lifted on/off the bolts, the wooden base will be epoxied down with P40. I will also be using a shaft bracket (pic below) to keep the shaft firm and solid in place.


Shaft bracket:
(http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/PrsAAOSww9VXglsU/s-l500.jpg)


(http://www.tizdaz.co.uk/boat/img/electrics/1.jpg)
(http://www.tizdaz.co.uk/boat/img/electrics/2.jpg)
(http://www.tizdaz.co.uk/boat/img/electrics/3.jpg)


(http://www.tizdaz.co.uk/boat/img/motorANDmount/8.png)


Also done a lil more to the.  The cross beam with red marker pen lines going across....this section will be cut out once rest of the frame is in place, (this is only to support the frame while im still building it) What you see in pic is just half of the frame complete. Once its all complete i will then cut the support piece out leaving a nice big hole to access the hull :) ...Oh, the batterys are just there as weights while i was fixing the bottom beams to hull using P40 :)


(http://www.tizdaz.co.uk/boat/img/hullprep/2f.jpg)


And finally, the prop shaft hole! I measured it up & lined it up with a length of 6mm dowel from B&Q which worked perfectly for marking out the areas for my rudder/prop & prop shaft/ lower keel etc ...I have to admit...i checked, double,trippple,quadrouple checked this just to make sure the measurements were correct! (touch wood!). But all seems good, at the mo the hole is just 6mm diamater, the shaft im getting i think is around 12-15mm, so im not going to cut the hole any bigger until the shaft arrives. The prop ive decided to opt for is the 5.1" 4 blade from prop-shop which is exact scale & will fit perfectly.


Before anyone says that the hole is not in line with the red spots! ..thats because those red spots were "guesstimates" from about a week ago using just my finger & bright light just to get a rough idea... which to be fair i wasn't far off lol :)
(http://www.tizdaz.co.uk/boat/img/propANDshaft/1.jpg)


Just a quick pic of my man cave which at the mo is a boat yard :D
(http://www.tizdaz.co.uk/boat/img/misc/workArea.jpg)
Title: Re: 71" (1.8m) TID Tug Build
Post by: Tid 65 on January 12, 2017, 10:07:32 AM
Hi sorry not to get to you until now,hope your build is going well and ready for Ellesmere.my rudder is 12cm X 8.5cm aprox.be good to met you at Ellesmere and have a chat.
Title: Re: 71" (1.8m) TID Tug Build
Post by: tizdaz on January 13, 2017, 12:17:35 AM
Hi TID 65 :)


i don't think it will be ready for e.port but i'm still going along \o/


Few more pics..

Finished fitting lower beams and added another deck beam, I cant fit the last of the main deck beams for time being until I have fitted the base otherwise I wont be able to fit it inside in 1 piece.
(http://www.tizdaz.co.uk/boat/img/hullprep/hull7.jpg)
(http://www.tizdaz.co.uk/boat/img/hullprep/hull8.jpg)

Using some cardboard I've made a template for the base which will be 12mm ply, which i'm hoping to fit tomorrow if time allows.
(http://www.tizdaz.co.uk/boat/img/hullprep/hull9.jpg)
(http://www.tizdaz.co.uk/boat/img/hullprep/hull10.jpg)

I also decided to pick up some Gorilla 2 part epoxy for strengthening the joints. All the joins are held together with P40 (wood to fibreglass) & Tightbond 2 (wood to wood). Im using the gorilla epoxy to fill in the gaps of any joints to make sure theyre solid. it also dries clear. Its on the expensive side but i will only be using it for small jobs all joints that you see in the pics so far has some of this on them & theres still around 1/2 left
(http://www.tizdaz.co.uk/boat/img/hullprep/hull11a.jpg)
(http://www.tizdaz.co.uk/boat/img/hullprep/hull11.jpg)


:)
Title: Re: 71" (1.8m) TID Tug Build
Post by: tizdaz on January 15, 2017, 06:09:31 AM
Ok i managed to get some time & i've cut the deck out using 12mm ply, fits good, just need to tidy it up a little, once the motor is installed i will fit the 2nd piece around the motor, once its all glued down i will be using "easy 1" filler to fill all the gap around all of the edges..


(http://www.tizdaz.co.uk/boat/img/hullprep/hull10a.jpg)
(http://www.tizdaz.co.uk/boat/img/hullprep/hull10b.jpg)
Title: Re: 71" (1.8m) TID Tug Build (update 12/12/17)
Post by: tizdaz on December 12, 2017, 04:28:16 PM

Hi guys, bit of an update!

Not done much past couple of months due to other commitments... but its back on now, Ive made a start on the wheel house, also ordered a few more things.. My prop has arrived & got to say.. what a gem piece it is, brilliant work from Simon :) Ordered a new radio & also ordered some bits for my deck fittings etc.

Im going to get the wheel house finished over next couple of days & then continue on with the hull :)


Now my prop arrived in post today so I can continue the build with the hull & get the deck sorted, just a few pics of wheel house & prop, more pics to follow!




Wheelhouse planking: Next step is to use filler & varnish
(http://www.tizdaz.co.uk/boat/img/structure/wheelhouse.jpg)
(http://www.tizdaz.co.uk/boat/img/structure/wheelhouse2.jpg)


Prop arrived in post, Lovely piece of engineering, im very impressed with the quality i have to say, thanks to Simon!
(http://www.tizdaz.co.uk/boat/img/propANDshaft/prop.jpg)
Title: Re: 71" (1.8m) TID Tug Build
Post by: tassie48 on December 12, 2017, 10:12:22 PM
Looking good mate mine arrived in OZ just prior to my move to New Zealand  and is on the way over with the rest of our house hold effects following your build The guys at Mountfleet Models were just great way over packed which is great keep going with your build tassie48
Title: Re: 71" (1.8m) TID Tug Build
Post by: tizdaz on December 13, 2017, 12:29:08 AM
Looking good mate mine arrived in OZ just prior to my move to New Zealand  and is on the way over with the rest of our house hold effects following your build The guys at Mountfleet Models were just great way over packed which is great keep going with your build tassie48


Hiya Tassie,


Thanks, its getting there, its my 1st real build so not gunna rush it :)
Title: Re: 71" (1.8m) TID Tug Build (Updated 14/12/17)
Post by: tizdaz on December 14, 2017, 02:51:08 AM
hmm
Title: Re: 71" (1.8m) TID Tug Build
Post by: tizdaz on December 14, 2017, 02:55:15 AM
whenever i try to post, it keeps failing & i have to keep re-trying until it works, its like russian roulette! & when it does finally post, parts of the text font is so small its un-readable, ive had this problem since i my very 1st post, even tried it on another PC & a laptop, same issue so it must be something to do with the back end of the forum :( ..anyway gunna try it again for the...10th time!!
Title: Re: 71" (1.8m) TID Tug Build
Post by: tizdaz on December 14, 2017, 02:56:32 AM
nope :( seems to only do it with post i put images into.. Ah well, gunna try again!
Title: Re: 71" (1.8m) TID Tug Build
Post by: tizdaz on December 14, 2017, 02:58:44 AM
ok tried it on laptop this time, still not working :(


Going to try it on IE as atm im using Chrome..
Title: Re: 71" (1.8m) TID Tug Build
Post by: tizdaz on December 14, 2017, 03:01:22 AM
tum de dum..
Title: Re: 71" (1.8m) TID Tug Build (Updated 14/12/17)
Post by: tizdaz on December 14, 2017, 03:04:04 AM

Ok, the workaround is i have to view in code mode, for some reason it automatically puts some of the text font size to 2px! But this only happens when i insert images linked form another website (ie my own website) ..so defo something wrong with the code somewhere? Anyway at least i know what to do as a work around ^^

Few more pics..


Filler applied..
(http://www.tizdaz.co.uk/boat/img/misc/filler_Thumb.jpg)


(http://www.tizdaz.co.uk/boat/img/structure/whouseWindows2.jpg)

Then sanded, the front corners actually look like corners now :)
(http://www.tizdaz.co.uk/boat/img/structure/whouseWindows.jpg)
Soo, its coming along now, Remember this is my 1st ever full build! Im no expert like some of the guys on here with theres builds, but im happy so far with how it's coming along & im enjoying the build lots :)


Tomorrow i'm going to do the rear where the doors will be & then the roof, ive ordered a few more bits from Mobile Marine Models, one of which is the Motor, Prop shaft & Safety Coupling! I already have a motor that i bought off fleabay, its a 24v 150 watt 3500RPM, but the one from mobile marines is a larger motor.. The plan was to try the one i have off fleabay, if it wasnt upto the job then i would buy the one from mobile marines, but after thining about it, it would be nothing short of a nightmare to swap the motors as the mount is a totally different size as its a larger motor, to play it safe ive bit the bullet & just going to throw the mobile marines motor in, its quite pricey (80) compared to the 15 one i got off ebay! ..but tlike i say, will probably save me a nightmare down the line. The motor off ebay i shall use on my next build will be a smaller scale so will be ideal.

Here's what my wiring diagram will look like, the last 2 components are on there way to me (P44 switch board & P112S distribuition board) as I have the rest. The only thing not on the diagram is the smoke generator which will be the Steam Msster Unit (SMU) which will be connected to the P112S. Reason why i have 2x Distribution boards as I basically wanted 2 seperate circuits, 1 purely for the motor using 4x 12v 22AH batterys & another for the Modules such as Smoke generator/Lights/Sound etc which wil lrun off a seperate 12V 22AH battery, but i still wanted them all going through my ESC, so the diagram below shows what components are needed for this to happen.
(http://www.tizdaz.co.uk/boat/img/electrics/elecs_diagram.PNG)






More pics to follow! :)
Title: Re: 71" (1.8m) TID Tug Build
Post by: tizdaz on December 15, 2017, 02:43:22 PM
Well, my wheelhouse is coming along nicely, just need to go over it once more with a little filler & then i will sort the roof out, the roof will be removable as to allow access to the inner of wheelhouse, anyway here's a few more pics..


(http://www.tizdaz.co.uk/boat/img/wheelhouse/whouse11.jpg)
(http://www.tizdaz.co.uk/boat/img/wheelhouse/whouse2.jpg)
(http://www.tizdaz.co.uk/boat/img/wheelhouse/whouse3.jpg)
(http://www.tizdaz.co.uk/boat/img/wheelhouse/whouse5.jpg)
(http://www.tizdaz.co.uk/boat/img/wheelhouse/whouse6.jpg)
(http://www.tizdaz.co.uk/boat/img/wheelhouse/whouse7.jpg)
(http://www.tizdaz.co.uk/boat/img/wheelhouse/whouse9.jpg)


More pics soon!
Title: Re: 71" (1.8m) TID Tug Build
Post by: tassie48 on December 15, 2017, 06:12:02 PM
Looking good mate you are doing a great job are you going to varnish the timber ? keep up the great work can not wait to get mine on the slipway and started how did the vents come up still waiting for mine following your work with interest tassie48
Title: Re: 71" (1.8m) TID Tug Build
Post by: tizdaz on December 16, 2017, 12:31:37 AM
hiya tassie :)


Yeh i will be varnishing, i'm also going to use shellac sand & seal before hand as i had a chinwag over phone with Stan form these forums & he highly recommends it:
https://www.uktoolcentre.co.uk/products/rustins-sanding-sealer.html?SID=803848&gclid=Cj0KCQiAgs7RBRDoARIsANOo-HgrEiSzFV_NlSNfHMx0UFqJTh8-ua02siAcu5t7Flq0xg75zCOUp0QaAiKbEALw_wcB&SID=803848&gclid=Cj0KCQiAgs7RBRDoARIsANOo-HgrEiSzFV_NlSNfHMx0UFqJTh8-ua02siAcu5t7Flq0xg75zCOUp0QaAiKbEALw_wcB (https://www.uktoolcentre.co.uk/products/rustins-sanding-sealer.html?SID=803848&gclid=Cj0KCQiAgs7RBRDoARIsANOo-HgrEiSzFV_NlSNfHMx0UFqJTh8-ua02siAcu5t7Flq0xg75zCOUp0QaAiKbEALw_wcB&SID=803848&gclid=Cj0KCQiAgs7RBRDoARIsANOo-HgrEiSzFV_NlSNfHMx0UFqJTh8-ua02siAcu5t7Flq0xg75zCOUp0QaAiKbEALw_wcB)

My vents are great, I will get some pics later & post them,


Bet you can't wait for yours to arrive! I have to say im really enjoying it, im just taking my time & enjoying the build :)
Title: Re: 71" (1.8m) TID Tug Build
Post by: tizdaz on December 16, 2017, 08:38:29 PM
Few more pics, i made a start on the roof, this will be removable for easy access to the wheelhouse, i will be planking the roof also, a few more items goodies arrived this morning to, thats the last of the electrics that i need (except for sound & smoke generator) going to get them after xmas now prob.[/size]
(http://www.tizdaz.co.uk/boat/img/wheelhouse/whouse12.jpg)
(http://www.tizdaz.co.uk/boat/img/wheelhouse/whouse115.jpg)

I used (an old bank card!) as spacers when bonding the wood together to allow a tiny gap so the roof can be removed & slotted back into position..
[/size]
(http://www.tizdaz.co.uk/boat/img/wheelhouse/whouse13.jpg)
(http://www.tizdaz.co.uk/boat/img/wheelhouse/whouse14.jpg)

Last of the electrics from Action in form of a P112 Distribution board, I already have a P107 Distribution Board, but as i mentioned earlier, I will be running the motor of a seperate circuit, so this is for the the lights/sound/smoke etc (the sound & smoke modules will connected to the ESC).. Also picked up a Twin Relay & fuse board..
[/font](http://www.tizdaz.co.uk/boat/img/electrics/action.jpg)[/font]
Title: Re: 71" (1.8m) TID Tug Build
Post by: tizdaz on December 16, 2017, 09:05:27 PM
Forgot to post pics of vents for Tassie, but im not going to try modify my post because everytime i do it messes the whole post up & i have to keep redoing it! :(


Anyway here's the vents, ive gave them a quick sand, but still needs more, when i come to fit them i will be adding more detail to them..


(http://www.tizdaz.co.uk/boat/img/deck/vents.jpg)
Title: Re: 71" (1.8m) TID Tug Build
Post by: tassie48 on December 16, 2017, 10:10:02 PM
Thanks mate looks great what number will your Tid Tug be called still doing all my research into fittings bridge interior etc going to run both water cooling coil around the motor and a cooling fan to cool the motor and help with the funnel up draft were it exits the hull keep up the great work tassie48
Title: Re: 71" (1.8m) TID Tug Build
Post by: tizdaz on December 16, 2017, 10:27:28 PM
hey :)


not sure yet on the number, i may even choose my own name for her! but will see :)


I was thinking of water cooling my motor but decided to see how it goes without, providing there's enough air flow should be too bad.. but i have an idea.. i may fit a small fan to the shaft near the coupler this will blow a breeze right onto the motor... so i may give that a go :)


Yeh i did a bit of research myself & my plans show whats what also, very basic inside.. im still trying to figure out how to make the wheel though, im going to do the center in wood but i want to use brass for the spokes & handles if poss :)
Title: Re: 71" (1.8m) TID Tug Build
Post by: mrlownotes on December 16, 2017, 11:05:42 PM
Hi Tizdaz,

I have been looking at your circuit diagram for the electrics.
Are you sure the P103 will handle 24V ? The Schottky diode may need upgrading as the instructions state 15V max.
If you are already aware tell me to mind my own business.

I'm enjoying your build. Thankyou for sharing your progress.

Title: Re: 71" (1.8m) TID Tug Build
Post by: tizdaz on December 16, 2017, 11:36:49 PM
Hi Tizdaz,

I have been looking at your circuit diagram for the electrics.
Are you sure the P103 will handle 24V ? The Schottky diode may need upgrading as the instructions state 15V max.
If you are already aware tell me to mind my own business.

I'm enjoying your build. Thankyou for sharing your progress.


hiya,


yeh its all good, i've spoke over the phone with the guys at Action, most of the components i have have been modified by them as i'm running 24v :)


but well spotted! :)
Title: Re: 71" (1.8m) TID Tug Build
Post by: tassie48 on December 17, 2017, 04:36:15 AM
Tiz did you see the Deans Marine Christmas open day photos do like the dingy small boat they have will get one  mine will  go on the aft deck under the tow bow rails as deck cargo that and a ladder stashed on deck, just finishing off the steering chains and  troughs and tensioners all in brass will operate on the jumbo servo rudder servo tassie48
Title: Re: 71" (1.8m) TID Tug Build
Post by: tizdaz on December 19, 2017, 01:31:09 AM
Hiya,


nah didnt see it :(

Wheelhouse planking is now all done along with the removable lid for access & im quite pleased with the outcome to be honest :)  ..just need to do a little more filling & varnish, New motor arrived along with prop shaft so time to get buzy! ..had to make a new mount for new motor as its larger & had to cut the shaft down, nothing fixed in as yet but seems to all line up good, tomorrow will be the day to finally get the prop/shaft fixed in & the bottom fixed in, anyway here's pics.. :)


(http://www.tizdaz.co.uk/boat/img/wheelhouse/whouse21.jpg)

Formed the shape of roof on this piece of timber using good old steam... From the pan on stove!
(http://www.tizdaz.co.uk/boat/img/wheelhouse/whouse30.jpg)
(http://www.tizdaz.co.uk/boat/img/wheelhouse/whouse115.jpg)
(http://www.tizdaz.co.uk/boat/img/wheelhouse/whouse22.jpg)

Fitting test! All good!
(http://www.tizdaz.co.uk/boat/img/wheelhouse/whouse23.jpg)
(http://www.tizdaz.co.uk/boat/img/wheelhouse/whouse29.jpg)
(http://www.tizdaz.co.uk/boat/img/wheelhouse/whouse25.jpg)
(http://www.tizdaz.co.uk/boat/img/wheelhouse/whouse33.jpg)

Now it fits snug, time to do the planking..
(http://www.tizdaz.co.uk/boat/img/wheelhouse/whouse31.jpg)
(http://www.tizdaz.co.uk/boat/img/wheelhouse/whouse32.jpg)
(http://www.tizdaz.co.uk/boat/img/wheelhouse/whouse19.jpg)
(http://www.tizdaz.co.uk/boat/img/wheelhouse/whouse26.jpg)

Mission Accomplished .....For the Wheelhouse anyway!
(http://www.tizdaz.co.uk/boat/img/wheelhouse/whouse20.jpg)
(http://www.tizdaz.co.uk/boat/img/wheelhouse/whouse27.jpg)
(http://www.tizdaz.co.uk/boat/img/wheelhouse/whouse28.jpg)
(http://www.tizdaz.co.uk/boat/img/wheelhouse/whouse24.jpg)

New motor (old motor is one on left, new one is quite a bit bigger & heavier and is 250 watt) & my prop shaft etc, I used some studlock which is very similar to Threadlock but MUCH stronger & vibrations wont loosen it (its what i use for the manifold studs for my tuned pipe on my largescale buggy) So the nuts & bolts on the mount wont be going anywhere!
(http://www.tizdaz.co.uk/boat/img/motorANDmount/motors.jpg)

Had to cut shaft down a little, now it fits snug..
(http://www.tizdaz.co.uk/boat/img/propANDshaft/shaftcut.jpg)

Complete with oiler
(http://www.tizdaz.co.uk/boat/img/propANDshaft/prop5.jpg)

Clearance test... All good!
(http://www.tizdaz.co.uk/boat/img/propANDshaft/prop4.jpg)

Alignment test.. Lines up well & enough gap for the Safety Coupling to be fitted..
(http://www.tizdaz.co.uk/boat/img/propANDshaft/whouse18.jpg)

& finally, I know most of you are lucky enough to have a "Man-cave" I live in a 1bed flat so space is very limited, so i make do with what i got...bit of a tight fit but it doesn't stop me!!
(http://www.tizdaz.co.uk/boat/img/misc/workArea3.jpg)
(http://www.tizdaz.co.uk/boat/img/misc/workArea2.jpg)

Thats the lot, more pics soon ^^
Title: Re: 71" (1.8m) TID Tug Build
Post by: tassie48 on December 19, 2017, 03:44:40 AM
Tiz looking great mate do like the cabin top of the bridge well done I will do the same going to build the bridge interior so a lift off lid is a grand idea gee your prop looks good as well will order the Electrics same as what you are using going 24 volt big motor.
Mine will have the lift up windows complete with leather straps at the front of the bridge and plan to hang my door so they can be opened as required,I will post some photos once the hulls get to New Zealand in the new year some time the two sliding hatches down aft will be open into the hull same with the vents so air can get in ,take a look at macsmouldings he has some great 1/12 scale fittings axe firehose seagull etc  looking for some crew figures now macsmoulding has some need a couple of old style period crew members to make her lifelike .
Trust you and all our Mayhem members take care over the Christmas holiday break all the best tassie48 out
Title: Re: 71" (1.8m) TID Tug Build
Post by: tizdaz on December 19, 2017, 04:15:54 AM
Thanks Tass :)


Yeh i was toying with the idea of having 1 of the cabin doors on hinges so can be open or closed, but decided not to in the end, but like yourself, the hatches etc will be on hinges so they can be opened/closed.. only thing i'm not quite sure about is doing this means the hull wont be water tight, if for whatever reason a lot of water splashes over it then water will just go straight into hull where the electrics are.. so i'm still trying to think of a way to stop the water entering the hull if i want to have hatches on hinges etc.


yeh ive been on Macs mouldings a few times, he has some good moldings, but the hatches etc are for the lifeboat & too small for the TID, so i'm going to be making my own. For For figures believe it or not the standard starwars & Doctor Who figures are 1/12 scale, so could use them & just change there clothing but also a few sites below:


http://www.cornwallmodelboats.co.uk/acatalog/krick_figures.html
https://www.melodyjane.com/dolls-house-people
http://www.matlockminiatures.com/contents/en-uk/d274_miniature_figures_dolls_house.html


:)
Title: Re: 71" (1.8m) TID Tug Build
Post by: tizdaz on December 23, 2017, 06:54:34 PM

Hi guys :)

Just a quick update.. Made a start on the keel/skeg & also fitted the bottom deck to support batterys/electrics etc & finished the supports for top deck. I decided to also redo the nav lanterns/deck lanterns as the ones i did previous were too large and didn't really look scale, Motor is now also mounted & safety coupling attached, all lines up perfect. I also decided to go down the LED route instead of Grain of Wheat bulb, I got some called "Warm Light" for the deck as they look more realistic than the bright white & the red/green for navigation lamps. The main reason why i changed my mind & went with LED's instead of GoW is they don't get hot so no need to worry about placing them right next to plastic etc, the ones i have are 12v from Action who pre-wired them with resistors.


Anyway will post pics soon :)
Title: Re: 71" (1.8m) TID Tug Build
Post by: tizdaz on December 29, 2017, 03:03:30 AM
Time to update with more pics ^^

Removed the temp crossbeam section and fixed the motor in place with P40
(http://www.tizdaz.co.uk/boat/img/hullprep/hull13.jpg)

Added deck support around the edges & fixed the base board with P40 & filled gaps around edges with Easy 1 Filler
(http://www.tizdaz.co.uk/boat/img/hullprep/hull14.jpg)

First Part of deck (Stern) cut out ready to fit, this won't be fitted for ease of access until I have all the rudder section/servo complete, there will also be a hole cut out of this for access to servo/linkage
(http://www.tizdaz.co.uk/boat/img/hullprep/hull15.jpg)

Portholes almost complete, these were made using different size brass circles then fixed some minature nuts around the edges, I just need to add latches which I will add using small pieces of copper wire
(http://www.tizdaz.co.uk/boat/img/structure/portholes2.jpg)

A few more!
(http://www.tizdaz.co.uk/boat/img/structure/portholes3.jpg)

Checking alignment of motor
(http://www.tizdaz.co.uk/boat/img/motorANDmount/motors1.jpg)

Gave the prop a good polish with Autosol Metal Polish, pics don't really do it justice but it come up damn nice I have to say!
(http://www.tizdaz.co.uk/boat/img/propANDshaft/prop15.jpg)

Checking the alignment again with a shaft support temp fitted
(http://www.tizdaz.co.uk/boat/img/propANDshaft/prop6.jpg)

Fixed the rudder support post using 2 methods, the first I used JB Marine Weld, once set I then used Epoxy Putty over the top to give it some shape. I also used the end of an 8mm prop tube placed it on the end of the keel, this was fixed using the same method, in the pic you can just about make out the hole for the rudder shaft
(http://www.tizdaz.co.uk/boat/img/propANDshaft/prop14.jpg)

The other end of keel I added another small strip of the brass bar then fixed it to the keel using JB Weld, I then filed it to the shape of the prop shaft, however I left a small gap to put some JB weld in for a good bond
(http://www.tizdaz.co.uk/boat/img/propANDshaft/prop12.jpg)

Checking it seats well
(http://www.tizdaz.co.uk/boat/img/propANDshaft/prop13.jpg)

Checking clearance for the prop before I fix the shaft in place
(http://www.tizdaz.co.uk/boat/img/propANDshaft/prop8.jpg)

I propped up (excuse the punc!) the prop shaft using bits of timber to get the correct alignment
(http://www.tizdaz.co.uk/boat/img/propANDshaft/prop10.jpg)

I put sides around the shaft support then used a little Gorilla 2-Part Epoxy to hold the shaft in place, but I added less hardener than the resin (I put my finger over the hardener hole so less came out) for more time to make adjustments to the alignment before it set this area will then be filled with P40 when the Gorilla epoxy is fully set, you can just about see the epoxy as it's clear
(http://www.tizdaz.co.uk/boat/img/propANDshaft/prop11.jpg)

Checking alignment of the prop
(http://www.tizdaz.co.uk/boat/img/propANDshaft/prop9.jpg)

Next is to add the P40 around the shaft support & then make a start on fabricating the Keel :)
Title: Re: 71" (1.8m) TID Tug Build
Post by: Martin [Admin] on December 29, 2017, 03:39:46 AM

(http://www.tizdaz.co.uk/boat/img/propANDshaft/prop15.jpg)


(http://www.tizdaz.co.uk/boat/img/propANDshaft/prop9.jpg)



Brass propeller porn....
    :-))
Title: Re: 71" (1.8m) TID Tug Build
Post by: derekwarner on December 29, 2017, 04:17:02 AM
Hey Daz.....those Portlights look superb :-))

Just a recommendation.......during the installation of each, make sure the 5th bolt is in the 12:00 position...[against the horizontal]

This is how Portlights were installed when manufactured with an uneven number of retaining bolts O0

Derek   
Title: Re: 71" (1.8m) TID Tug Build
Post by: tizdaz on December 29, 2017, 05:10:45 AM
Hey Daz.....those Portlights look superb :-))

Just a recommendation.......during the installation of each, make sure the 5th bolt is in the 12:00 position...[against the horizontal]

This is how Portlights were installed when manufactured with an uneven number of retaining bolts O0

Derek


Thanks Derek :)


the gap at the bottom is where i'm going to be putting a latch type handle :)
Title: Re: 71" (1.8m) TID Tug Build
Post by: Mark T on December 29, 2017, 10:09:06 AM
Wow thats a nice piece of engineering going on there mate  :-))
Title: Re: 71" (1.8m) TID Tug Build
Post by: tizdaz on December 29, 2017, 01:14:38 PM
Wow thats a nice piece of engineering going on there mate  :-))


Thanks Mark ;)
Title: Re: 71" (1.8m) TID Tug Build
Post by: tizdaz on January 07, 2018, 12:31:46 AM
Well, my 1st update of 2018!


Cut the sides of the deck out, ready to be fitted, but as mentioned earlier, the deck wont be perma fitted until all electrics/rudder are in place etc.
(http://www.tizdaz.co.uk/boat/img/hullprep/hull16.jpg)

Shaft bracket held firmly in place using P40 & then once that had set, I used epoxy over the top to give it a clear/solid finish.
(http://www.tizdaz.co.uk/boat/img/hullprep/hull17.jpg)

Close up of the shaft bracket held in place
(http://www.tizdaz.co.uk/boat/img/propANDshaft/prop16.jpg)

Made a start on the keel/skeg sections, Those of you with a keen eye for scale will notice that the lower keel is slightly different to that of the real TID, On the TID the lower Skeg only covers half of the Keel, I would have liked to do it the same way, But I wasn't sure as the 2 parts of the Skeg (upper & lower) is what will be supporting the prop shaft, so in the end I decided to go with strength over looks so to speak! & I do a full lower skeg as this will support the prop shaft all the way along so will make the support much more firm. This will be the only part that won't be true to the original TID! Although I did do some googling & it seems the TID's skeg varied somewhat from TID to TID, so here's my version!
(http://www.tizdaz.co.uk/boat/img/propANDshaft/prop23.jpg)

Checking fitment, bottom one fits perfectly, but the top piece I decided to redo as it was a little too short
(http://www.tizdaz.co.uk/boat/img/propANDshaft/prop24.jpg)

Fixed the Bottom pice of the skg to the Keel using 3 screws going through the bottom of the keel into the skeg, I countersunk the holes so the screw heads sit flush with the keel. I then used some JB Marine Weld (this is VERY good stuff for bonding metal) in between the keel & the skeg to seal the gap as well as to fit it in place. You will also notice that around the rudder area I shaped it off, this was done using some epoxy putty then once set I went over it with JB Marine Weld & then filed/sanded to get the shape I wanted. I also used a round file for the top of the skeg so the prop shaft sits inside it snug.
(http://www.tizdaz.co.uk/boat/img/propANDshaft/prop22.jpg)

Different angle..
(http://www.tizdaz.co.uk/boat/img/propANDshaft/prop21.jpg)

Testing the fitting, all good (except for the top piece of skeg which as I mentioned, was a little too short
(http://www.tizdaz.co.uk/boat/img/propANDshaft/prop19.jpg)

New top section of skeg done & fits like a charm! As with the lower piece, I filed the underside so the Prop Shaft sits inside it snug, this will also help with the bonding using JB Marine Weld when I come to perma fix it in place. The top of the skeg will also be screwed into place through the hull & with some JB Marine Weld in bewtween to help with the sealing/bond.
(http://www.tizdaz.co.uk/boat/img/propANDshaft/prop18.jpg)

Checking alignment from the rear, all looking good!
(http://www.tizdaz.co.uk/boat/img/propANDshaft/prop9.jpg)

Another shot from a slight angle
(http://www.tizdaz.co.uk/boat/img/propANDshaft/prop17.jpg)

Made a start on the rudder tube, in this pic is 2 parts of a Prop Shaft which I'm using for the rudder shaft. I cut the bottom end of a Prop Shaft off to my desired length, this also had the Bushing, so then I had to cut the bushing from off the top end of the Prop Shaft & then bond the 2 together, which is what you see below. the grey stuff you see is where the join is using JB Marine Weld, this will be filed/sanded down. The actual shaft you can also see in the pic which is held in place to make sure the alignment stayed 100% straight while bonding the 2 pieces together
(http://www.tizdaz.co.uk/boat/img/propANDshaft/prop20.jpg)



That's it for now, I've also made a start on my electrics board, but hit a few bumps so no pics as yet as!
Title: Re: 71" (1.8m) TID Tug Build
Post by: ballastanksian on January 07, 2018, 08:11:08 PM
I have just found this build and I like the skeg and rudder workings very much  :-))
Title: Re: 71" (1.8m) TID Tug Build
Post by: tizdaz on January 07, 2018, 10:41:42 PM
Thanks ballastanksian :)
Title: Re: 71" (1.8m) TID Tug Build
Post by: nemesis on January 08, 2018, 12:01:10 PM
Good Prop advert  for Simon,s product, beautiful piece of casting. nemesis
Title: Re: 71" (1.8m) TID Tug Build
Post by: tizdaz on January 08, 2018, 05:16:26 PM
Good Prop advert  for Simon,s product, beautiful piece of casting. nemesis


indeed, lovely piece of engineering, especially when I gave it a good polish, had to put my shades on ^^ :D
Title: Re: 71" (1.8m) TID Tug Build
Post by: tizdaz on January 08, 2018, 05:21:21 PM
Well, I've almost done my rudder! I silver soldered it, 2mm Brass plate that I cut out to the shape of the rudder (this is what took the longest in making the rudder, cutting through 2mm Brass sheet aint as easy as it sounds..even for a dremel with a diamond blade!!) onto a 4mm stainless steel shaft, I also added some JB Marine Weld to finish it off, seems nice and solid & tested the fitment/alignement & all looks good (touch wood!!) Just going to add some detail to it once the Marine Weld has set & then I will post some pics. I was going to plank it but decided to keep it plain & add some detail instead :)
Title: Re: 71" (1.8m) TID Tug Build
Post by: tizdaz on January 13, 2018, 03:33:35 AM
Time for an update, Finally finished the rudder..

First I cut out the rough shape of the rudder from a 2mm Brass sheet
(http://www.tizdaz.co.uk/boat/img/propANDshaft/prop39.jpg)

I then filed & sanded to give the final shape
(http://www.tizdaz.co.uk/boat/img/propANDshaft/prop40.jpg)

This was the (not so fun) part! ..Silver soldering the Rudder shaft to the rudder it's self. I did this using a Butane blow torch which I picked up off ebay, I used 2 house bricks for a base, I then lay another brass piece I had on top of the house bricks (to help with reflecting the heat) I then keyed the area to be soldered using some sand paper & put some flux on the contact sides & then lay the rudder & rudder shaft in position using 20pence pieces as shims as these were just the right thickness so the rudder was centre to the shaft, I also used a couple of die pieces to keep the shaft firmly along side the rudder. It took about 5mins for the flux to run which indicated the correct temperature to add the silver solder.
(http://www.tizdaz.co.uk/boat/img/propANDshaft/prop38.jpg)

All sanded down, solid as a rock! ..tested the alignment & all good!
(http://www.tizdaz.co.uk/boat/img/propANDshaft/prop36.jpg)


(http://www.tizdaz.co.uk/boat/img/propANDshaft/prop37.jpg)

I then used some JB Marine Weld along the joint, this ensured that if there was any area missed with the soldering this would fill the join as well as add extra strength.
(http://www.tizdaz.co.uk/boat/img/propANDshaft/prop35.jpg)

Once the JB weld set, I then sanded for a smooth finish
(http://www.tizdaz.co.uk/boat/img/propANDshaft/prop34.jpg)

Next I cut out 3 strips of 1mm brass & wrapped it around the shaft & onto the rudder, these were fixed in place using JB Marine Weld & then I used 3 small pieces of wood along with clamps to hold in place while it set. This will again add extra strength to the rudder as well make it look more like a rudder!
(http://www.tizdaz.co.uk/boat/img/propANDshaft/prop33jpg.jpg)

All set & solid!
(http://www.tizdaz.co.uk/boat/img/propANDshaft/prop32.jpg)

Time for more sanding..
(http://www.tizdaz.co.uk/boat/img/propANDshaft/prop31.jpg)

Next I added some rivets (well, kind of!) I cut off the head of some button head bolts, filed them smooth & then using JB Marine Weld I placed them onto the strips & then filled the head with the weld.
(http://www.tizdaz.co.uk/boat/img/propANDshaft/prop28.jpg)

Once all set I sanded down to a smooth finish
(http://www.tizdaz.co.uk/boat/img/propANDshaft/prop30jpg.jpg)

One more final sanding..Mission Complete!
(http://www.tizdaz.co.uk/boat/img/propANDshaft/prop29.jpg)

Im pretty happy with the final outcome, once sprayed I think it will look pretty decent, not bad for my 1st attempt :)
(http://www.tizdaz.co.uk/boat/img/propANDshaft/prop26.jpg)
(http://www.tizdaz.co.uk/boat/img/propANDshaft/prop27.jpg)
(http://www.tizdaz.co.uk/boat/img/propANDshaft/prop25.jpg)

Next will be to perma fix the skeg/propshaft etc in place & connect rudder to the servo :)
Title: Re: 71" (1.8m) TID Tug Build
Post by: tizdaz on January 13, 2018, 03:56:25 AM
Also I may be having a rethink on my electrics, after doing the first test of running the prop, I connected it up using 1x 12volt battery as I just wanted to run it in with the grease etc. However even with 12volt it seems there is plenty of rpm & power, the motor is rated 12-24volt, I kept the RPM high & the motor stayed stone cold as did the ESC. So now I'm thinking instead of having 24volt as I was going to use Series/Parallel setup to give double the Voltage & double the Ah (Total would have been 24 volt & 44Ah) ..I may just run the batterys in Parallel, this will give 12volt but will have a total of 110Ah with 5 batterys as each battery is rated 22Ah.


I'm hoping to do my 1st water test next week, so I will decide then as I will be running on 12volt so then I will know if she has enough juice using just 12volt, if so then it will make things so much simpler in terms of electrics! Time will tell..


In the meantime here is my very first vid! ..testing prop on 12 volt running-in the shaft with the grease, in this vid shes running at about half throttle, remember the skeg is NOT yet perma fixed in place, its just propped up with a few bits of timber! but she still runs smooth as silk :)

http://www.tizdaz.co.uk/boat/vids/PropShaft.mp4 (http://www.tizdaz.co.uk/boat/vids/PropShaft.mp4)


What I have noticed is in this next vid, the prop seems to be off balance, you can notice a wobble effect on the blades, but the spindle is dead straight, what you guys think? It's only noticable on low rpm, as soon the rpm picks up you cant notice it, but i'm pretty sure there should be no wobble effect at any rpm?

http://www.tizdaz.co.uk/boat/vids/propshaft2.mp4
Title: Re: 71" (1.8m) TID Tug Build
Post by: JimG on January 13, 2018, 08:31:40 AM
If you have to do any more silver soldering don't use housebricks as a support. They are always slightly damp (unless you have had them in a hot oven for several days) and the heat from the soldering can cause this moisture to flash into steam. This can cause the surface of the brick to break up, in extreme cases with some force throwing pieces of brick around.
I use the firebricks from inside an old storage heater, these are designed to be at a high temperature and are undamaged by the burner flame.

Jim
Title: Re: 71" (1.8m) TID Tug Build
Post by: Stavros on January 13, 2018, 08:57:42 AM
Nothing at all wrong with that prop



Dave
Title: Re: 71" (1.8m) TID Tug Build
Post by: SailorGreg on January 13, 2018, 09:28:59 AM
If you have to do any more silver soldering don't use housebricks as a support. They are always slightly damp (unless you have had them in a hot oven for several days) and the heat from the soldering can cause this moisture to flash into steam. This can cause the surface of the brick to break up, in extreme cases with some force throwing pieces of brick around.
I use the firebricks from inside an old storage heater, these are designed to be at a high temperature and are undamaged by the burner flame.

Jim


And don't use a brass sheet to "reflect the heat". It's much more likely to act as a heat sink and take the heat from your soldering so it takes longer and runs the risk of getting a poor joint. If you plan to do much more silver soldering it's probably worth spending a few quid on a vermiculite sheet such as offered here (http://www.cupalloys.co.uk/brazing-ancillaries/). 


Great build. Pretty ambitious, but loads of fun I guess!  :-))


Greg
Title: Re: 71" (1.8m) TID Tug Build
Post by: Mark T on January 13, 2018, 09:37:41 AM
You've made a really nice job of that rudder and from the video the prop looks fine to me  :-))
Title: Re: 71" (1.8m) TID Tug Build
Post by: tizdaz on January 13, 2018, 03:32:46 PM
Hi guys,


cheers for the pointers, will take the silver soldering tips onboard but I don't think i will need to do anymore silver soldering on this build, it was purely for the rudder


Yup, I agree about me being ambitious! ..lets face it, if none of us were ambitious we would all be in the dark ages still! ..The rudder & prop etc were the parts I was not 100% looking forward to doing as I knew it would be a lot of work, but touch wood, so far i'm happy with my work, still got a fair bit of way to go, but once I've got the electrics & drive system all sorted, I can then relax a little & start adding all the detail to deck/superstructure etc :)


Good to know my prop is all good, just wasn't sure as this is my first build :)


cheers guys :)
Title: Re: 71" (1.8m) TID Tug Build
Post by: Tombsy on January 13, 2018, 07:12:35 PM
I have to balance the props on my fast boats, does anyone do it with tug props at lower rpm?
Title: Re: 71" (1.8m) TID Tug Build
Post by: nemesis on January 15, 2018, 09:07:51 AM
Yes, just think of a 5" dia bronze prop being out of balance and what it would do to the tail end shaft bearing, nemesis
Title: Re: 71" (1.8m) TID Tug Build
Post by: tizdaz on January 28, 2018, 10:37:56 PM
I just spent about 30-40min typing out an update to hit post & then all the code got screwed up again!! :(
Title: Re: 71" (1.8m) TID Tug Build
Post by: tizdaz on January 28, 2018, 10:45:08 PM
Prop shaft & rudder all done, will grab some video soon of it in the water, but i did a dry test with the prop running & its very smooth with no vibrations which is good as it means of course that the alignment is good etc.

Also stained/varnished the wheelhouse & made a start on the wheel, also cut out the rest of the deck pieces which are ready to be fixed in place & also made a cutout on the stern for access to the rudder linkage/servo..

Using some 2mm copper sheet I made some braces for the keel..
(http://www.tizdaz.co.uk/forum/attachment.php?aid=202)
(http://www.tizdaz.co.uk/forum/attachment.php?aid=203)

The top half of keel is screwed in from inside of the hull through a piece of 3x2 block of wood which I fixed in place using Epoxy
(http://www.tizdaz.co.uk/forum/attachment.php?aid=227)

I used JB Marine Weld to fix & seal the keel to the Hull & Prop Shaft..
(http://www.tizdaz.co.uk/forum/attachment.php?aid=204)
(http://www.tizdaz.co.uk/forum/attachment.php?aid=205)

I then covered the keel with JB Marine Weld, this made it solid as well as make it water proof
(http://www.tizdaz.co.uk/forum/attachment.php?aid=206)
(http://www.tizdaz.co.uk/forum/attachment.php?aid=207)
(http://www.tizdaz.co.uk/forum/attachment.php?aid=208)
(http://www.tizdaz.co.uk/forum/attachment.php?aid=209)

I then added the copper braces to add strength joining the top & bottom parts of keel to the prop shaft, again these were fixed in place using JB Marine Weld, these were held in place using a few pieces of scrap wood while the Marine Weld set..
(http://www.tizdaz.co.uk/forum/attachment.php?aid=210)

Once set I then sanded down to a smooth finish..
(http://www.tizdaz.co.uk/forum/attachment.php?aid=211)

I then used some Epoxy Putty to shape the area above the prop joining the keel to the rudder support/rudder shaft, I then coated it using JB Marine Weld & then sanded for a smooth finish..
(http://www.tizdaz.co.uk/forum/attachment.php?aid=220)
(http://www.tizdaz.co.uk/forum/attachment.php?aid=221)
(http://www.tizdaz.co.uk/forum/attachment.php?aid=222)

I cut out the rest of the deck pieces, once I have the electrics sorted, these deck pieces will be perma fixed in place & then covered with some filler..
(http://www.tizdaz.co.uk/forum/attachment.php?aid=213)
(http://www.tizdaz.co.uk/forum/attachment.php?aid=214)
(http://www.tizdaz.co.uk/forum/attachment.php?aid=215)

Hole made for access to Rudder Linkage & Servo..
(http://www.tizdaz.co.uk/forum/attachment.php?aid=217)
(http://www.tizdaz.co.uk/forum/attachment.php?aid=218)
(http://www.tizdaz.co.uk/forum/attachment.php?aid=219)

Wheelhouse Stained & Varnished..
(http://www.tizdaz.co.uk/forum/attachment.php?aid=194)
(http://www.tizdaz.co.uk/forum/attachment.php?aid=195)
(http://www.tizdaz.co.uk/forum/attachment.php?aid=196)

Made a start on the wheel, need to add handles which will be in form of 4mm Brass tube..
(http://www.tizdaz.co.uk/forum/attachment.php?aid=199)
Title: Re: 71" (1.8m) TID Tug Build
Post by: tizdaz on January 28, 2018, 11:11:53 PM
Rudder Linkage / access hole

I cut out access hole for access to the rudder servo/linkage, this will be hidden once the deck/fittings are finished.
(http://www.tizdaz.co.uk/forum/attachment.php?aid=223)
(http://www.tizdaz.co.uk/forum/attachment.php?aid=224)


I used a little JB marine weld to hold the position of servo support beams, JB Marine Weld is quite slow setting so It gave me time to make small adjustments during the cure so I made sure alignment was good.
(http://www.tizdaz.co.uk/forum/attachment.php?aid=225)


I then used some P40 to bond the beams in place & I also made a timber frame around the rudder support & filled this with some P40 & then Gorilla Epoxy around the edges to be sure it was watertight..
(http://www.tizdaz.co.uk/forum/attachment.php?aid=226)
Title: Re: 71" (1.8m) TID Tug Build
Post by: tizdaz on January 28, 2018, 11:55:12 PM

Final test & all seems good (touch wood!) You might hear a little rattle which is basically the washers on the shaft, in the water they won't be rattling!



Rudder is very responsive & I adjusted the EPA to roughly 60-70% which gave enough throw & is well within the safe area.



http://www.tizdaz.co.uk/boat/vids/proptest3.mp4
Title: Re: 71" (1.8m) TID Tug Build
Post by: Captain fizz on January 29, 2018, 11:29:50 PM
Your build is coming on a treat Daz.Love the straps on the rudder and skeg, it's the details that count! :-))


Simon
Title: Re: 71" (1.8m) TID Tug Build
Post by: tizdaz on January 30, 2018, 12:04:10 AM
Your build is coming on a treat Daz.Love the straps on the rudder and skeg, it's the details that count! :-))


Simon


Thanks for the kind words :) ...yup its coming along slowly!


New link for video as I cant edit previous post:


http://www.tizdaz.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?tid=12
Title: Re: 71" (1.8m) TID Tug Build
Post by: tizdaz on February 12, 2018, 06:19:28 PM
So today was THE day!

Decided to go New Brighton with my pops to give her a water test (moment of truth as they say!) ..Turned out great, Still needs more ballast as I expected, But the 12-volt is plenty so no need for me to mess about with 24-volts :)

Anyway here's a quick vid!


http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6enou8
Title: Re: 71" (1.8m) TID Tug Build
Post by: nemesis on February 12, 2018, 06:33:34 PM
Very good, the point on the bottom of the transom should just break the water, nemesis
Title: Re: 71" (1.8m) TID Tug Build
Post by: ballastanksian on February 12, 2018, 09:26:47 PM
Looking good Daz  :-)) The rudder looks the part.
Title: Re: 71" (1.8m) TID Tug Build
Post by: tizdaz on February 12, 2018, 10:23:01 PM
cheers guys :)


Quite a relief when I didn't see any water in the hull! lol


Remember this is my 1st ever build so I was a little shaky! But now I can continue on with build, going to finish the electric box, then I will fix the deck & then i've got some Easy 1 Filler which i will seal the deck with.


Heres quick pic from today's test (only pic I got!) apart from the vid


(http://www.tizdaz.co.uk/forum/attachment.php?aid=228)
Title: Re: 71" (1.8m) TID Tug Build
Post by: derekwarner on February 12, 2018, 11:48:05 PM
It  is certainly interesting that after all of the trials & tribulations  %) for 24volt control systems, that a 12 volt supply now appears adequate

During the dry test, the motor presented an interesting resonance from startup.....equating to the sound of a constant speed fluid coupling drive approaching final speed

The dry test disappointingly did not display any clear motor speed control especially at lower shaft speed

So whilst higher shaft speed may be required for towing/manoeuvring work, a little more ballast aft may also be required to minimise initial cavitation

Derek
Title: Re: 71" (1.8m) TID Tug Build
Post by: tizdaz on February 13, 2018, 12:15:05 AM
It  is certainly interesting that after all of the trials & tribulations  %) for 24volt control systems, that a 12 volt supply now appears adequate

During the dry test, the motor presented an interesting resonance from startup.....equating to the sound of a constant speed fluid coupling drive approaching final speed

The dry test disappointingly did not display any clear motor speed control especially at lower shaft speed

So whilst higher shaft speed may be required for towing/manoeuvring work, a little more ballast aft may also be required to minimise initial cavitation

Derek


Hi Derek :)


To be honest on the dry test in the video I didn't really do low throttle much as when low RPM it was quite noisy & it was late night & I live in a flat so my neighbours wouldn't have been too happy!


But on this water test at low rpm she plodded along nicely & was very quiet/smooth, in this vid it was mostly 1/2 to full throttle (again very quiet & smooth) as i wanted to test the power on 12-volt would be enough (which it definately is) ..yup she is going to need around a further 10kg in terms of ballast which I expected :)
Title: Re: 71" (1.8m) TID Tug Build
Post by: nemesis on February 13, 2018, 02:32:59 PM
It is surprising just how much ballast these tugs take to get down on the waterline, also they were not that fast in real life, about 7/9 knots, enough for harbour work, so your test went well.nemesis
Title: Re: 71" (1.8m) TID Tug Build
Post by: tizdaz on February 13, 2018, 08:51:28 PM
hiya,


yup needs a fair amount of ballast! I had a rough idea from the start of this project that i would need around 50kg ballast, seems i wasn't far off!
Title: Re: 71" (1.8m) TID Tug Build
Post by: captain bligh on February 14, 2018, 12:01:13 AM
Looking good and plenty of running time with all the batteries  :-))
Title: Re: 71" (1.8m) TID Tug Build
Post by: tizdaz on February 22, 2019, 12:58:13 AM
Couple of updates!
Ive been buzy with other stuff but now im back onto the build so heres a couple of things ive done:
Decided to make my own Mist Unit, For those that don't know baout these kind of devices, they are NOT the oil type smoke generator's, these ones run purely of cold water, nothing more!
I will be running it using timgarrod's board that allows more or less flume of mist depending on throttle, it also has a remote on/off switch that can be toggled via the transmitter, ive gave it a test & it works great, highly recommended, just fire timgarrod (https://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,56353.0.html) a PM if you want to know about these boards, on to some pics:

I decided to use 3mm clear perspex for the unit, to join the pieces I used a liquid called Model X Pro that is specifically designed for bonding plastic/perspex together.
(http://www.tizdaz.com/forum/attachment.php?thumbnail=174)

(http://www.tizdaz.com/forum/attachment.php?thumbnail=170)

The actual Mist device runs from 24v supply, so to hook it up im using a 24v step up as my battery is 12v. The fan im using runs from 12v.
(http://www.tizdaz.com/forum/attachment.php?thumbnail=173)

For the outlet I used some plastic plumbing pipe, i fixed a small connector thats usually used for joining 2 pieces of pipe together, this was ideal as I can insert/remove the pipe for ease of transport
(http://www.tizdaz.com/forum/attachment.php?thumbnail=175)