Model Boat Mayhem
Mess Deck: General Section => Model Boating => Topic started by: haustrup on November 29, 2016, 01:26:25 pm
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Dear friends.
Sorry, but I have to delete my question, it was too general, I'll be back
Regards
Steffen
Topic renamed! - Admin
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There's no such thing as a general or stupid question!!....go on, we're all exited now.
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The one we can't see O0 O0 O0
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Hi Ron, I do understand that it sounds a little strange that I cancelled the message, but I wasn't sure if I had the permission to ask worldwide in public, so that is why.
I had a question from a friend connected to, let's say "a major European model manufacturer" asking about which model I and my friends in our local club would think were "missing" or could be interesting to have on the market - seen from our point of view.
I realized that this was meant to be both static and RC models, and therefore it was too open a question to be able to answer, as the wishes of course would vary quite a lot/too much all over the world and I have no idea of their sales plans at all.
If the question had been more specific, such as "do you think that a model from ie. an icebreaker or a polar supply ship would be interesting, I could easily have done that, but not with such an open question.
He did specific ask what I thought about one ship - a five masted barque - as I've never heard of a kit for such a ship, but my knowledge to static models aren't that big, so I wouldn't just ask for that.
Regards
Steffen
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Heller produce a model of the five masted barque "Preussen" in 1:150 scale.
Regards.
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Maybe rephrasing the question / questions!:
What ship, boat, vessel, object, etc. would you like to see as a kit?
What scale?
Type of construction preferred?
How much would you realistic be willing to pay for it?
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One problem I can see asking this question, 100 modellers will almost certainly give 100 different answers which then puts you right back to square one..
Paul..
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True but this is Mayhem! .......... and it's Monday.........and it's winter outside here....... and it's nearly Christmas! :kiss:
Large Modern Tug.
1:72 - 1:40 ish
'Airfix' or precut parts
£200
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Hi Haustrup,
There are hundreds of models out there, all different types and if a manufacturer of boat/ship kits asked.."Which type do you want to see a kit of?" There would be hundreds of different suggestions as well.
We have some expressions in the UK like....'Suck it and see' or 'Whatever floats your boat'...apt, if not helpful,
Generally a kit manufacturer might as well stab a long list with a pin and go for whatever turns up. I have, however noticed that modellers in different countries lean towards different types of model boats, I'm sure I'll stir up some replies here!.
There seems to be some small interest growing among those who love multi masted ships etc, whether Galleons and their ilk, clippers and barques, and I don't remember seeing a kit supplier specialising in Radio controlled versions of these craft in a big way.
Most of the R/C models from the 'Age of Sail' are the results of individuals trying to solve the problems of steering and getting the best out of many sailed rigs using home grown and invented solutions.
Maybe an enterprising kit manufacturer could look at doing some hardware to rotate 4 masts etc or even produce a fully working R/C Victory.....different.
Ron.
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well I feel that what is need to increase the numbers of the younger generation into model building is a kit that has all the necessary build instructions for the novice person to build. An example of this would be a GRP hull with a DVD. On that DVD you would film the complete build in steps, with details of the correct bonding agents, how to set up the plans and how to follow them. Start with 1.48 scale or 1.72 so that people with large hands and fingers can be involved. Use classic ships in the world of cargo, ferry's, sailing ships and navel patrol vessels. Small enough to be built in small locations. Spare rooms or garden sheds. The detail would need to be made up of fitting, that can be purchased as the build is progressing keeping the cost down over the time of the build. Good painting instruction on the painting recommended by the manufacturer in steps that make sense to a novice. once the bug to build take holds they would expand to large ships but the idea of the DVD filming of the build would be a great advance to model building for the novice. Once the knowledge base has been increased they will move away to the more detail and building fun of more complected kits.
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When rotating masts you lose the detail found in the Airfix type - so you have to replace the mats (I am trying to work out the operating of the yards at 1:180 on Airfixs victory - resuming sometime in the next week ok2), their scale is usually too small to be realistically feasible for operating effectively and expensive if you go say for the larger Heller victory, clippers and the like are at scales in the 150 - 200 range and extremely top heavy so the sail board is a must and then it pulls the vessel down so the controlling equipment has to be as light as possible.
me, size is also an issue for transporting, the most common subjects appear to be warships and tugs then fishing vessels, then novelty, where what I would like to see is some of the more industrial vessels - now this usually means a lot of offshore oil, very few ferries, though Carl has been working on two exceptional examples and train ferry no 3 is also a classic project.
Mearsk style carriers are bulky to transport as is others, the Apache tanker is looking like a good project to follow and distinct.
Brockelsby and similar fine detail masterpieces are all a dream to watch, but out of my skills range.
As for Airfix style kits - always, its easy for me to convert than build from scratch, but that's not proper modelling - that only comes with altering the basic by adding detail to make it special and fix what the kit supplier has only hinted at - I know some will disagree, but why supply a brass etch part if the actual kit is supposedly a fair representation - because its not - its only good due to the amount of detail it can represent at that scale, so in most cases, a semi kit with the hull prefabricated and the basic superstructure is a cost effect way of a kit.
Cost is only relevant as to how much an individual is prepared to pay.
In conclusion - what subject is interesting, has not been fully modelled and can be done without taking years and masses of cost to the modeller.
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To me, the range of 1:200th scale styrene ship kits has opened up the market for warship modellers who want a kit they can assemble without too much faffing. It may have lots of bits, but they are usually pretty good quality and are well cast.
To that end, a range of Ninteenth century to first world war cruisers and battleships in 1:200th would get my juices flowing and must include one of the Helgoland class Dreadnoughts:O)
A business needs to plough its own furrow. It has to make a few educated guesses at what will sell well and pay for the development costs etc. If said product sells well then the proceeds can be invested on less popular subjects thus broadening the companies appeal. In the hobby sphere, many companies started because they felt there was a hole in the market, and the proprietor had the skills or wherewithal to have products developed to fill this void. Sometimes, these are almost philanthropic activites intended to advance that part of the hobby with interesting kits and figures. Others just want to add things to their own collection and fund this by way of selling more of the product.
To paraphrase my second ever client; 'You have to sculpt a range of SS Panzer Grenadiers if you then want to have a range of French or BEF figures'.
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A simple question really:
Working Boats: 1950-60's Cargo Boats, Some of the one-off specialist or support boats, anything that looks different.
Quality: Up with Mountfleet Models, Caldercraft
Size: Probably have to be 1:48 or a bit less but not too small. 1 metre or so, small enough for one old man. About 10 Kg max.
In time for Christmas 2018?! O0 O0 O0
John
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My Preferences
RC working model historic scale sailing vessels.
Fore and Aft rigs are definitely easier to sail. Rigging can also be simpler. Gaff rigged, yawl/schooner/pilot cutter. Maybe a 2, 3 or 4 masted schooner. Maybe with fore staysail, jib, and flying jib
Size rather than scale is the limiting factor, and so about 80-120cm hull length.
If it masts can be taken down for transport that would be a big plus.
I have one schooner kit, but it lacks detailed fittings.
Cost is the kicker
Affordable
The Victor Models Mary J Ward is about USD 370 (complete except radio gear, servos)
Scale 1:16 Hull length 86cm. Length with bowsprit about 96cm + overhanging main boom.
ABS hull.
The downside is it must be shipped from USA, and that costs postage and import duty.
Nice but just too expensive for me.
The Robbe Valdivia (discontinued) was about 600 Euros (extra for ballast kit, radio gear, motor kit and fitting kit) I think complete it was about 1100-1200 Euro.
ABS Hull
Scale 1:20 Length overall, about 1.6m. Getting a bit big for transport.
The Robbe (Billings) Vanadis USD 1100, discontinued in 2016, some stock left in the US. I am not sure what comes with this kit.
Ideal
Length overall 100-130cm
Price for a complete kit (less radio gear and servos) in the range of 300-500 Euro would be nice.
Robbe/Graupner used to do more than one such kit, but now sadly discontinued both. It could be that they could not do it at a cost people wanted as both were really in the 1000 Euro plus price bracket.
Victor Models has two scale sail models at a reasonable price, but are in the US in the price range of 220-250 Euro (plus post and customs). There could be a market gap in Europe for models in the same price range, or more detailed models at a moderately higher price.
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Well, there are countless kits / models of lifeboats, mostly the same 'current' types repeated by numerous manufacturers. The only lifeboat I would consider building is a Liverpool Class, but unfortunately no one makes one. A while back there very nearly was one nearing completion, but it never made it to "finalised" where I could order it.
So, a Liverpool Lifeboat please. With the large number of lifeboat enthusiasts about there has to be demand for a more traditional version.
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Hi Tiger tiger, I may have some good news for you. I used to write occasionally for Marine Modelling and to help pay for a trip to Dortmund I sent in an article on Valdivia. I talked to the salesman and demonstrator for the Valdivia model.
You should know that the topmasts slide down for transport and he moved the yacht around in his Renault Clio on the back seat.
He very knidly let me operate her on the large pool at the exhibition, very nice too. He had sailed on her some years before and supplied lots of photos and I think prompted the production of the model.
regards Roy
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Well if it is who I imagine it is asking, I would suggest some good solid, reliable sellers, similar to Billing Boats of the past. I shall stick with RC stuff, as static models are very fickle. Who would think that it is difficult to impossible to sell Mary Rose kits in Portsmouth, but there you go!
Tugs; Modern equivalents to the Bankert ( with better access to the insides ), Smit Nederland ( without the big flush hatch, that let lots of water in! ), Polar Star (?) Trawler, White Star Fast Sports Fishing Boat ( but just that bit bigger ), and as mentioned, Lifeboats ( classic or modern designs ). Look to the Dutch for modern and appealing designs, Damen Shipyards for example..but proper British lifeboats though!!
That stuff sold and sold, and that is what matters. I would like to see an Orca from Jaws, a Swedish Combat Support Boat ( with jet drives ), A Royal Marines Pacific Rib etc, but that stuff wont sell in the numbers needed, so leave that to us scratch builders.
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Hi, I would like to see a kit for a Norwegian steam coastal ship from the 1920's 30's. As per the ones shown in the current Model Boats magazine.
I built the Noggsund from GG but a nice scale one could be really nice.
regards Roy
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The kit that I would have really liked was the Black Swan at 1:72 that Matchbox were rumoured to have largely tooled just before they went. An ideal companion to the Flower class Corvette.
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A kit that I would like to see is a model of any ship that I really would like to scratch build but don' t know how to do it. BY.
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A nice Liverpool lifeboat kit
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I'd like a nice big liner as a fibreglass hull with plastic moulded/printed fittings - most of the fittings on them are multiple repeated like lifeboats, windows, balconies, ventilators etc. so should be relatively cheap to engineer.
Either one of the classics (except Titanic -too many around) like QE1 or 2, QM1 or 2, SS United States, SS France or maybe one of the big modern cruise liners like the Royal Caribbean fleet.
1/200 would be a good size with huge intenal volume so you can fit it out with as many electronic gadgets as you like, smoke plant, working lifeboats, disco decks, lighting - sky's the limit.
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The kit that I would have really liked was the Black Swan at 1:72 that Matchbox were rumoured to have largely tooled just before they went. An ideal companion to the Flower class Corvette.
A good Lines plan and GA drawings are readily available....why not have a bash at building your own? BY.
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Reading through the replies on this thread just proves that no kit manufacturer is ever going to be able to cover, never mind satisfy the myriad of "desirable" kits. So I'm afraid you are all just going to have to take it or leave it when it comes to making a choice.
When you buy a popular kit and proudly show it off, it must be a bit depressing to find you are just one of a crowd of clones.
I imagine that building a hull is considered to be the most difficult thing to make (it isn't) but there's a greater variety of hulls on the market than full kits to choose from. I know that I've said it before, but starting with just a bought hull and a bit of research then you'll no longer be just one of the crowd. BY .
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A good Lines plan and GA drawings are readily available....why not have a bash at building your own? BY.
Too little eyesight, too many thumbs (at least, when I get tools an materials in front of me I seem to grow extra semi-independent thumbs.) Sticking together and colouring in, after a professional has made the parts, fairly OK. Measuring and making, less so, at least to the standard that I would want to be seen with. The mythic Black San kit does fall into the "KIT I would like to see" category.
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Since Graupner stopped making the Glasgow there is a shortage of a good paddler kit.
Tony
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One main thing to think about is model boat building is becoming a dying hobby due to not enough of the younger generation getting attracted to it. I'm 35 and personally have never been interested in the old mast n sail ships etc . I've even been getting my 9 yr old daughter into the hobby who has been helping with a lot of fiddly bits etc but going from our point of view in order to attract and hold the attention of younger ones the hobby needs more kits with working auxiliary functions
I.e fire monitors. Cranes. Work boats etc
How about an anchor handler that can actually lift and lower anchors from the ponds etc or buoy layers that can do similar
The biggest fascination with my daughter at the moment is the graupner weser model we just finished and having it with working monitors and search lights etc plus being able to drop the anchor and park it in the middle of the pond whilst you have your lunch is what she enjoys
On a personal note though robbe should bring back the happy hunter kit as I know this is a well sought after model and they would make a killing releasing an updated version especially with all the aux functions
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Are there any kits of any of the Dunkirk Little Ships at all?
Please forgive my ignorance as i'm new to this hobby and not sure if there are any out there.
Or maybe some plans.
http://www.adls.org.uk/t1/
Ian
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The little ships were a hugely diverse bunch of small craft of different types. Best bet is to look for pictures of them, pick one that takes your fancy, then find a kit that is a close match.
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The Dunkirk "little ships"
There are still loads of them left.
One of the more interesting jobs I did in the RFA was to be the "Fleet Coordinator of the return to Dunkirk ifrom Dover in 1990. My ship was RFA Sir Bedivere and we also embarked many of the surviving men of the Royal Green Jackets. I recall that there were well over 30 of these boats all neatly formed up in a sort of convoy. Stationed directly below our port bridge wing was Bluebird of Chelsea. She still exists and takes part in most of the Thames pageants.
Model Boats magazine produced one of their "super plans" of her in 1991....later on I built a model of her at 1/12 scale (about 50" long). It's the only one of my models that I've kept.
I produced a build log for her and it appeared on this forum.
I still have that build and the plans on CD. Regards. Bryan.
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i wonder if this is said manufacturer
john
ps i have asked for QE2 in 1:350
https://www.revell.de/ideas/
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Are there any kits of any of the Dunkirk Little Ships at all?
Please forgive my ignorance as i'm new to this hobby and not sure if there are any out there.
Or maybe some plans.
http://www.adls.org.uk/t1/ (http://www.adls.org.uk/t1/)
Ian
The RNLB Rosa Woodd and Phyllis Lunn was a 41' Watson lifeboat, which served at Dunkirk, and the Metcalf Mouldings RNLB Ann Letitia Russell was the same class of lifeboat.
There was also a 46' Watson and possibly either a Liverpool or self righting boat of same length that did their duties, and I believe from what I have heard both these lifeboats are on the cards , again from Metcalf Mouldings eventually.
Jim.
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I would love to a Ryhope but this time in 1:32 scale maybe mobile ,marine might make it one of there next hulls will have to speak to Bryan next time am there.
Regards Howard.
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Frasinul at about 40 inch long Bill..
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What about the Mersey Ferries Iris and Daffodil Later named Prefixed Royal as a result of their exploits
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I would like to see a class of boat that is ignored by kit company's, namely, Luxury Yachts. Especially the multi deck type with the flowing lines with lots of glazing.
Regards Glyn