Model Boat Mayhem - Forum

Dry Dock / Shipyard: Builds & Questions => Yachts and Sail R&D: => Topic started by: hammer on December 20, 2016, 03:12:33 PM

Title: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: hammer on December 20, 2016, 03:12:33 PM
If I paint a picture of a ketch I am an artist. But building a model I am a craftsman. This seems the general point of view. I suppose if just following a plan it could be so, but given that plan to different modellers they will produce different results. So I think ART as it is much easier to paint a picture than build a model.
I am posting in sail because my method of building the Irene of Bridgwater will continue here. I like to build subjects that mean something to me, in this case I was born in Bridgwater. In the past I have made Flying Foam topsail schooner & Crowpill steam collier  both registered in Bridgwater, Albatross a sailing trawler built Teignmouth where I have retired. Two paddle steamers Glen Usk as I sailed on her when 10 years old, the Duke of Devonshire, a frequent visitor to Teignmouth pier many moons ago. No plans available for any of the above.  Also 2 pilot cutters they don't count being from plans.
Back to Irene she still exist having had Bridgewater added to her original name, much altered from original.  Launched in 1907 is how I want to portray her delivering bricks & tiles, bringing back coal, her main occupation.
 To start trawl the internet, visit Bridgwater Museum, library & any where I can think of may contain information. Lloyds of London but not this time as I have dimensions as she still exist, but will visit her or book a cruise.     
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: hammer on December 22, 2016, 05:14:30 PM
Well 74 members don't disagree with me.
After my searches I am undecided do I build as working, or as restored? Obviously accurate  information  available for the present ship. But the main reason on the early ship the one prop has a cut out in the rudder & through the stern post. Where as now twin props one ether side. The problem ships of this type benefit from external ballast. I don't like lumps of lead hanging off the bottom. on my Flying Foam part of the keel made of lead, 2 rods ran up through tubes, the top of the tubes connected by a lose chain. In the stand the lead pressed up in place, remove the hatch, lift the boat by the chain, lead still in place. launch, release the chain lead drops down. And no one knows. In the albatross a 1/8 steel plate with the centre removed, filled with lead dropped down as a centre plate. Operated with a sail winch in the water, no one knows. The centre plate is best as it reduces leeway. So the single prop will get in the way. Photo shows centre plate down about one quarter of drop.
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: captain bligh on December 22, 2016, 05:48:35 PM
Hi hammer
We normally do an exercise with the Irene  with the lifeboat when she calls in to us for a few days.
But this year we was all invited down on board for a big cooked breakfast and very nice it was to  :-)) :-))
Mike
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: derekwarner on December 22, 2016, 09:24:29 PM
Morning RGY........great to see your text  ok2.......

The one thing that strikes me as difficult to understand is the angle of the propeller shaft to the axis >>:-(....the angle between both shafts is ''acute'', but how the shafts align internally is the question

Could they be driven by a splitter box with a very physically close output each through a universal to a single engine?  >>:-(

I read your note in the other thread thankyou.....my very best to you for the Festive season............. Derek

 
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: hammer on December 23, 2016, 11:23:26 AM
Captain Bligh thanks for the reply, I think she is in Plymouth at present. I will have to find out exactly where.
Derek, well observed  as always but no she has 2 Gardener diesels engines. The angel is more upwards than inwards. This photo at different angle shows it better. 
Found a lot of information already. Bridgwater Museum yesterday, on the net day before. Breath 20.98ft that's 21 in my book, length is questionable, 100ft, 85ft, quoted but over what? eventually found 83ft at water line. I have a photo taken square onto & at water level, This will be scanned into my drawing program on layer1 on layer2 draw over the photo, remove layer1 & I have the elevation. Now I need a body plan look through my library to find a fit. I have 3 books on old sail with small drawings, also when ever I get a public library book I scan it into my computer. Copy right? Now all these are very small, so enlarge on computer, problem the lines are enlarged also. So I enlarge until lines about 1/8th wide print, trace in the centre of line, repeat until sections correspond to the with of the model. Usually only twice. The spacing of frames usually equal 10 plus half stations at each end but not always.  Once I have built the hull all other drawing will be done on the hull. The elevation is not at the scale of the model , a double  sided scale rule made, red side for elevation black for model.         
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: derekwarner on December 23, 2016, 10:42:39 PM
As RGY notes..... %)

'Back to Irene she still exist having had Bridgewater added to her original name, much altered from original.  Launched in 1907'

'length is questionable, 100ft, 85ft, quoted but over what? eventually found 83ft at water line'

We must remember that reliable/accurate wind up tape measures as we know them today were not invented until the early 1900's  ;)

Before that, many...many inaccurate nominations of length or distance were made measuring devices of the day

Shipwrights in the 1800's used rolls of finely woven cotton string carefully marked with 1ft graduations.......goodness knows how tighter pull would have been required to take up the slack & get out the sag  {-) at about 100ft away...and what mark was recorded?  :-X

Derek
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: hammer on December 27, 2016, 10:47:19 AM
Derek, It seems some can't measure now ether. Went to pub Christmas eve saw a mate who had a plan of Irene for me. (more drawing really). Can get lucky now & then. He was the one who told me 83ft at water line. That is what it says on the plan, got it home and measured with the scale no the bottom, it measures 85ft at water line. So I am going with 85, won't make much difference when I decide on the scale. Having worked in the construction industry I am used to working from small plans, compared to the finished item, although the always had DO NOT SALE printed on them.   So will not need my drawing around the photo which matches very well considering. In my library have Schooner Sunset by Douglas Bennett. Found a very similar ship Snowflake, same beam, flat bottom, plenty of sheer and only 4ft longer than Irene. I will print all the photos I have of Irene pin them on the workshop wall along side the drawings. I will be ready to start work when I get back from holiday mid Jan, after I have done a lot of thinking. Scale, materials construction and Irene or Irene of Bridgwater???   
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: hammer on December 27, 2016, 10:50:19 AM
You will notice the sections aren't spaced equally, as mentioned earlier. Probably taken off from the ship after.
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: hammer on December 29, 2016, 10:50:16 AM
On Marine Traffic, see Irene is in Santa Cruz, Tenerife. Hope she is still there when I get there next week.
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: captain bligh on December 29, 2016, 11:28:15 AM
She was leaving for there when we had breakfast aboard of her calling into Vigo Spain on route to drop off the owner I beleave.
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: derekwarner on December 29, 2016, 10:32:51 PM
RGY....keep us posted when you return...."I will be ready to start work when I get back from holiday mid Jan"

Enjoy your holiday %)....where are you off to? :o....... Derek
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: hammer on December 30, 2016, 05:13:01 PM
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: hammer on January 19, 2017, 10:47:13 AM
I found Irene in Santa Cruse, took a load of photos of details. That was a coincidence as I hadn't thought about modelling Irene when I booked the cruise in October, luck plays a big part in research.
I did a lot of thinking laying in the sun, here is the results. Having built 2 pilot cutters & a sailing trawler which sailed well with internal ballast only, but the trading schooner needed external ballast. As in the photo above the trawler had a centre plate & an expanding rudder. The drop plate operated by a sail winch with a sewing machine bobbin. Rudder expanded by normal servo & Bowden cable. Irene will be smaller so not enough room for extra servos.   
The answer, a carrying handle up through the hatch will hold the drop keel up when lifted of the stand. In the water the keel will drop pulling the expiation for the rudder down. This will simulate the shape of the cutters.  Sorry the fag packet drawing is not very clear.  Any questions ?   
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: derekwarner on January 19, 2017, 11:49:28 AM
Well RJY....apart from sitting in the sun for too long  %) what else have you been getting up to?

The mudmap appears OK.......

1. it could be R/C controlled latching self lowering, then with the same R/C servo winch hoisting under power only
2. may need some side [P&S] lateral support, otherwise a very high loading could occur at the main lowering pivot pin toward amid ships......

Derek
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: hammer on January 19, 2017, 03:10:42 PM
Had a few ciders, climbed a mountain, a day in the Moroccan desert in a 4+4, Tour of the ships non public areas, & other boring things.
 I try to keep this a secret but attached is my trawler being rescued after sinking. The drop keel box split at the pivot point. I wont let it happen again. In mitigation she had sailed for 2 years before with out trouble. It was a very windy day, only scale boat stupid enough to sail. All repaired.     
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: hammer on January 20, 2017, 11:47:02 AM
Marked up the slipway. Painted silver to obliterate marks from previous builds.  Centre line for keel, position of frames, shape of stem and shape of counter stern at deck level. also in the picture the scale rule, red side up for plan.
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: hammer on January 22, 2017, 10:48:40 AM
Cut the card patterns for the frames, stick them to ply with contact adhesive, so they don't stretch. Before I cut them out I have to make the drop keel & its box, as the model will be built on this. Looking in my store found the brass plate & 3/8 square steel. Change of plan no lead use the steel to make it stronger. (Derek) Unfortunately my mill is out of commission, have to cut a slot with an angle grinder. Or do other things, like clear the bench.
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: hammer on January 23, 2017, 02:41:12 PM
Still not decided how to finish model, "Irene" working or "Irene of Bridgwater" cruising. If "Irene" I have stopped the brass part of the drop keel at frame 8. This will give room for a reduction gear moving the motor sideways & down. Note in this photo brass bearing for connecting to rudder. The keel box can be higher containing more plate, this can stay inside, helping with support. Also shown the pivot, the short piece fits between frames 1&2. The pin stainless steel threaded 1/4+40 one side. Brass not soldered to steel yet.
 If Irene as now I will only have one working propeller, other side shown folded.
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: hammer on January 27, 2017, 04:41:58 PM
 Brass plate fixed to keel. Keel box sides made, just need a coat of resin before joining. Stem & rudder post done, (sorry not clear in the photo) both made from 3 layers the middle layer protruding inwards to form a rebate to take the planning.
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: hammer on January 30, 2017, 02:56:52 PM
Saturday, resin to inside of keel box & etching primer to the keel. Sunday pit crew for son motorcycle racing. Monday cut out frames, fixed keel to the slipway, and started to frame up the hull. Plum up the stem & stern post with squares. The frames notched over the keel box and a plank central just below deck level. Frames aliened to marks on the slipway. the keel box is fitted the thickness of the planking so they fit under later. Hammer aka R.G.Y.
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: hammer on January 31, 2017, 09:30:31 PM
All framed up. I know some of you are looking, can you see my mistake?
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: derekwarner on January 31, 2017, 11:05:24 PM
Well we are certainly watching RGY........ "can you see my mistake?"

not really sure what we are looking for  %)

1. you have left the little screw top lid off the yellow paint bottle  {-)
2. is the alignment of the 4th frame from the bow a little out or is this a parallex type error? ;)
3. the rise of fall of the stem & stern to midships a little low compared to your earlier sketch and drawing? :-X

Keep us posted with the build.....

Derek
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: hammer on February 01, 2017, 09:40:04 AM
I knew I could rely on you Derek, but you are wrong. I am happy with the structure, frames are all aligned ok, and the sheer looks flatter as photo looking down.  I have measured the stem to the deck height only. Needs to be up under the bowsprit. Not the end of the world.
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: hammer on February 01, 2017, 03:24:33 PM
Marking the sub deck, using frame measurements. Had to cut out centre as the camber & shear wouldn't bend in one. I also need to resin inside later. Because I always use second hand materials if possible, the quality is suspect.
   A better view of the shear, it also shows number 6 frame is a little high. Will run a saw through the joint once or twice & sand down the exposed portion.
   Removed the drop keel, now resting on a pillow, so she can be place in any position. Now have to tidy up the edges with a dermal sanding disk. Install the servos & motor with prop shaft. So now is decision time, do I go "Irene" 1930s or 2017.  If built 2017 and I get something wrong I am sure to be told about it. But I do have plenty of information, and she looks prettier .    If 1930 I will have to guestimate a few things but who will know.  Help! Last photo shows "Irene" in Combwich pill with the brick yard in the vary back ground.Help!
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: hammer on February 02, 2017, 03:11:10 PM
Worked out where things are going, fixed the 2 sail arm servo.  Decided to go for the old Irene, so motor will be as shown. The only thing I don't know is, there is usually a water tank on deck, but I can't see one yet. The deck house was the problem from my photos it looked far to long. The reason it contains the wheel house, most unusual. The other deck house contains a motor winch, also the galley I am thinking.   
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: hammer on February 03, 2017, 05:04:14 PM
The photos above taken in "Carvers" dry dock Bridgwater. I can remember when it was filled in.
 I don't go in the work shop weekends so no reports till Monday, Pub Sat racing Sun, no the rain & wind won't stop enduro.
Started on the prop shaft, found the end off a towel rail I think? A rod with a ball on the end, chromium plated brass.  Tuned it down to fit an "O" ring. I made a plate with a bearing the size of the rod, the cutting tool just behind set to the finish size. turned a bearing to fit each end of the tube soldered in. Just 2 lock nuts to hold the gear wheel & solder on the prop blades next job.
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: derekwarner on February 03, 2017, 10:47:04 PM
RGY......we see what you mean about the bridge & the deckhouse being in one......may not be all that typical....but is what you have......just thinking %)......the combined structure would be no issue in building, but offer a larger footprint deck opening :-))........

Just reading...Pub Sat.......you may have told me years ago......but is it that dreaded black goop   >>:-( that you partake in?...............Derek
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: hammer on February 04, 2017, 09:49:05 AM
I am from Somerset now in Devon, us do drink zider. Although its more like lemonade now, good scrumpy is had to find. I am off now they open at 11-00am, should be home by 5-00pm.
   You are right about the large hatch, that's where the rudder servo will go. Not as pretty as the new one but can't have it all.   R.G.Y
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: hammer on February 06, 2017, 02:43:25 PM
  All most completed the prop shaft just put the prop in the citric acid until the morning, add the twist then polishing.  Put the shaft in the lathe using the jaws to divide by 3, marking the angle 40deg. Cut the slots with derma, two discs in the mandrill giving the extra width.  Cut 3 squares of brass out of a old Victorian door step. (never throw any thing away).  Marked 1 piece then stuck them together with super glue. Filled down to the marks, heating  them up to burn off the glue. Bent them over.5inch rod long ways to form the dish. Silver soldered the assembly together. I hold it in position with fire cement, this sets as the torch is applied, and can be cracked off after. I keep the cement in original pot, seal small amounts in polythene bags, and a small amount of water in bottom of pot. this will stop it setting, it will keep for years this way.
  Temporally fitted the rest of the sub deck, the straight cot down the centre had to be concaved .5inch to a commutate the sheer & camber. Then marked out the important features. Done in marker so you could see.
   
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: hammer on February 07, 2017, 03:24:44 PM
Not a lot to report. Got fed up with polishing, still more to do. So just fitted it all into the hull (temporary). Made a start on the gear box as well.
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: hammer on February 08, 2017, 04:27:41 PM
Planking, looking at the men's heads in the dry dock sizes up the planks to be about 1ft  wide.
Need to divide the frames with no planks more than half an inch, slightly over scale but this will only be at the widest frames. First rap a strip of paper over half a frame mark the distance, repeat on all frames. The widest frame (5)in this case will need 14 strakes at least, fitting an A4 paper, mark 14 half inches starting central 7 each side. The smallest frame (1) will need 3/8th to cover it. Surprisingly little difference really. So mark 3/8th marked at the bottom of the paper. Join the marks, place the strip with the distance marks square across with the measurement touching the outer marks, draw a line mark the frame number. From this the divisions, transfer to frames. I start with the garboard strake & the top strake working to the centre. May not stick rigidly to the spacing, if going under stick a wide one in, or thinner as the case may be.   
I make my own planks, rip down on bench saw, thickness them by pushing under a roller on an upturned belt sander.  Always push against the rotation of the belt, other wise it will snatch 7 take fingers.
By to days standard 1ft planks are very wide, but I do have a pitch pine flooring board 11in on my bench. Taken out of a grain store 60 years ago.
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: hammer on February 09, 2017, 05:10:08 PM
Finished the gear box. But disaster, well not so bad as that. The motor wouldn't clear the keel box by 1mm. As the box is made of 3mm ply couldn't shave any thing off it. Have to put an idler gear in, won't through it away may come in one day.
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: MartinL on February 09, 2017, 10:26:27 PM
Hammer, sorry if it's off topic but I was impressed with your adapted belt sander. Is that a roller or just a large diameter bar over top of belt, and is it fixed at other end?
Thanks
Martin
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: derekwarner on February 10, 2017, 12:49:55 AM
'Impressed'  <*<...oh yeah?...to me it looks just bl**dy dangerous

"how to launch a wooden plank toward the moon :o...in one easy lesson"

Lets ask my mate RGY if he still has 10 fingers & 10 toes?  {-)

Derek
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: John W E on February 10, 2017, 08:21:47 AM
Hi there Derek

Although I done condone Hammers method of sanding planks - for the reasons you have pointed out - I can confess of maintaining a rather larger version of his machine and method for a living :-)  I used to maintain a machine called a Steinemann sander at Formica where I worked - it works on the same principle as Hammer's method of sanding but as you can imagine when things went wrong and we got an 8 x 4 Formica board jammed in the machine, it just literally used to destroy the board into millions of pieces :-)

john
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: hammer on February 10, 2017, 09:55:30 AM
Answers to the questions. It is a roller, only fixed on one side. This has the advantage that a slightly thicker section can be obtained on far side.
Derek any machine can be dangerous if used the wrong way. The idea came about because it bit me once. You probably saw the accident on another post of mine. Me finger went between the belt & the frame, so I though a bar across would stop it happening again, so why not a roller. As I said the wood MUST BE PUSHED AGAINST THE ROTATION OF THE BELT. The small strips are easily held & they are being pushed away from danger.
I have worked with wood working machines for 60 years, knowing the danger & never get to confident. No gloves, safety glasses, ear defenders, hard hats steel toe cap boots or knee pads. In my day, only wish we had knee pads as my knees are shot.  The evidence below you will have to take my word about my toes.. Well it did get some replies which was nice. 
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: John W E on February 10, 2017, 02:10:17 PM
:-) us Northerners believe that certain people in the West Country may evolve from the Waorani Tribe who are known to have 6 fingers per hand and also 6 toes - so you may have lost a couple of fingers for all we know - and - we wouldn't know any different.

Nice model - be safe :-)  Enjoying your build  :-))
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: hammer on February 10, 2017, 04:45:52 PM
Bluebird, sometimes it feels like I have 6 when trying to get a nut or screw in a small space. Are you blue (sad) or blue with cold up north. OW ARRR! Thanks for your post any way. OW ARRR!
 Funny how a mistake can be a good thing. I cut the stem short, remember. Well this allowed me to cut the ginger bread flat on the bench, before fixing.
Finished the second gear box it fits this time a tight squeeze, had to remove frame 8, temporary. Just need a cradle to support the motor on Monday. The gears & motor where taken out from something or other that was broken, can't remember what.
 
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: hammer on February 14, 2017, 01:51:52 PM
Did some thinking the week end, always dangerous. If I had a plan I would change it. So change the model instead.  Controlled the sails on all my other sailing boats with single sheets. One servo for the main & mizzen ( if fitted ), one for stay sail & jibs. I also did make a top sail schooner "Flying Foam", now on display in the Cottage Loaf Inn Llandudno. This had two braces to swing the square sail yards. I could also furl the square sails.
 So I have moved one servo to allow a starboard & port sheet for the staysail. Giving more control, if boat gets stuck in irons when tacking pulling the sail to one side should push it around, at present I flip the rudder quickly one way, slowly the other, a few times, works.  Going down wind pulling it out to the opposite side to the main, (goose wing ) really makes a boat fly, at present just luck.  The jibs will be just in or out, but with two sheets showing.
 Next the prop, made a three blade, but better with a four, as the original. Dividing & marking on the lathe.
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: hammer on February 15, 2017, 03:35:05 PM
Started the expanding rudder. I like to make every thing so it can be removed for maintenance, had a job with the rudder & prop. By turning away the rudder stock it can be moved sideways enough to get the prop past, before pushing the stock right home. The expanding rudder from stainless. Just needs cladding in wood.
All the frames are marked for the planks. The paper stuck with contact adhesive, fit the plank to the mark then scrape off that section before gluing the plank. Only one garboard strake fitted today. Now I have started I hope to fix four a day. So should be posting in 7 days not counting weekends, unless some one wants to know anything. Hammer, aka R.G.Y
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: derekwarner on February 16, 2017, 12:19:50 AM
Well RGY......has someone altered the pitch on the propeller blades or is it just an optical illusion after guzzling too much Scrumpy?  {-)....... Derek
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: JimG on February 16, 2017, 11:38:35 AM
Different props, the first looks like a 3 blade and the second is the 4 blade.

Jim
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: derekwarner on February 16, 2017, 12:23:06 PM
Hullo JimG.......how is Dundee this morning?........you are of course correct, the latter propeller has certainly grown an additional blade in addition to a greater pitch...I was really asking RGY to admit the effects of the Scrumpy  {-) on his build...... Derek
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: hammer on February 16, 2017, 04:49:50 PM
Thanks Derek I knew I could rely on you. Thanks Jim for trying to put Derek straight you never will, I have been trying for years. As for the pitch on the prop who knows, always was a good guesser. If you can't measure you have to be. Piece work most of my working life so. Measure twice cut once, NOmeasure once & cut as many times as you can.
As I marked out the planks I found I will need a stealer at the bow. Just like the original boat, very pleased. also in this picture can be seen the zinc plats protecting the timbers from the anchor.
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: hammer on February 20, 2017, 03:42:29 PM
Having trouble with the planking, can only manage 2 strakes in my normal play time 10 till 1. Going to lose money on this contract {-).  Trying Gorilla glue for first time has to be clamped overnight, although it said 20 minutes on the pot. To much pressure with the bends in the hull. Could use thixotropic (is that how its spelt ?) wood glue as on previous boats, sticks ok, but expands out of the joints can be very messy.
Delays as two funerals this week, that's what happens at my age. Not mine though and we have to go to the social club to drown our sorrows.
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: derekwarner on February 20, 2017, 10:17:51 PM
RGY...if that darned Polyurethane expanding  <*< glue gets too much......this whitish glue is has near equal properties of water resistance ..... Derek

PS....your word for 'if applied to the ceiling, will not fall of it's own weight' certainly does apply for that other goop  O0
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: hammer on February 21, 2017, 05:00:25 PM
Wall paper paste I never thought of that, thanks Derek. But I have cracked the problem, put the foam type glue on the frames & Gorilla on the edge of the planks. It can foam all it likes on the inside of the hull, (insides on my boats never look very pretty.) The clamps can be removed in 30 minuets, speeding up the job no end.
In between planks I made some mahogany light ply. Stuck veneer on to 1/16 balsa, with contact adhesive, this will be used for the deck house soon.
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: John W E on February 21, 2017, 05:27:49 PM
Hi ya Hammer

May I ask, why are you not using brass pins of about 10 mm in length to secure your planks to the frames as they would have done in the real ship - just out of curiosity.     If you didn't want the heads to show of the brass nails, you could leave them slightly proud until glue has dried.  Cut the tops of the brass pin off and punch it home.

that way you can do more than 2 planks in one sitting at your table - I normally plank roughly about 5 per side in my playtime :-) then the school bell rings hahaha :-)

John
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: hammer on February 22, 2017, 11:09:53 AM
Thank you John, very good suggestion. But you have caught me out, I am using 3/16 balsa & pins pull through, hence the clamps. I have a stack of balsa to use up, from aero modelling days. Four foot by 4 inch planks with prices of 18p. I will cover both inside and outside with resin. This will be my fourth boat built this way. A 5ft steam powered paddler 2001 1/16 balsa still going strong.
Besides Derek made me afraid to make my planks with the thicknesser.
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: John W E on February 22, 2017, 06:28:54 PM
hammer, on another thread - please put some good photographs of that paddle steamer on :-)   I must admit I was getting sick of cutting paddle wheels out of brass and when I finished cutting them out I said this is it - no more paddlers - now I have seen yours I like that!

John
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: hammer on February 23, 2017, 11:48:34 AM
John my second paddler build can be seen on paddelducks you will have to log in to see the pictures. forum, construction, page2, then Duke of Devonshire. 24 pages plenty to see had over 91,000 hits. Proud or what.  http://www.paddleducks.co.uk/smf/index.php  or this my work
http://www.paddleducks.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=5011.0
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: hammer on February 24, 2017, 12:02:18 PM
Only 3 more strakes left to do per side. Planks flowing nicely at the stern, and I have done the stealer at the bow. Someone may be wondering what am I going to do when I can't get clamps on?  String around the hull and wedges.
  But I want a change, so made a kit for the windlass.
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: hammer on February 26, 2017, 02:52:56 PM
26th started planking on 20th so only 5 play times ( no play Saturday ). But play today Sunday, no racing this week.
The best plank the last going in. Measure the plank with divider on each frame. As I said earlier I don't follow the spacing exactly only near the end.  Some sanding & filling done, not to much as I want to show the planks. Although a half inch wouldn't show to this scale, but the planks on the original are quite pronounced. So I will try to do as an artist painting a brick house will do, not paint every brick, just a few & suggest the rest. 
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: hammer on February 27, 2017, 03:15:26 PM
 Sanded & filled the visible cracks then took an hour to clean up the dust & shavings.  Coated the inside with resin a good way to find & cure any leaks. Stuck masking tape over the leaks temporary to seal.
Fitted the drop keel & rudder to find the height for the carrying handle, this rest on the keel box when fully extended. The rod can be seen above the hull on left. After cutting to length drilled & tapped to take a 5mm screw, retaining the wooden handle ( needs tidying.) The dinner bell rang, well the bang on the floor. So gave the outside a quick & thin coat of white emulsion, more filling & sanding tomorrow. 
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: hammer on February 28, 2017, 03:53:23 PM
Ran out of filler so made some from Artex mixed with P.V.A., having to wait for it to dry.
Made the masts dowel, taper planed down then sanded in the lathe. Arial embedded in the mizzen mast, ( still on 40 megs ). All my receiver aerials are cut  9" long so I know the length of the extension what ever one I use. You will notice the hounds the mast are not parallel, done deliberately. This is to help miss the square yard crane, (if I fit one) as I will need to lower the top mast loading in car.
One dead eye, only another 31 to go. Aluminium as you can see, I don't have any wood close grain enough to hold together this small. Notice packing on one jaw making the hole off centre. Using three jaw chuck  to position holes. Bit of a long job, position the rod on the packing, centre drill, remove, drill 1.9mm hole, reposition & repeat for each hole. Cut grove with parting tool, & part off. Can only drill a maximum depth for 3 as drill tends to wander after this. So have to start again.
 Assembled the windlass & made a bell with a clapper. 
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: hammer on March 01, 2017, 04:34:40 PM
Cut the hatches. Reinstalled the motor and servos. Had to move the rear servo to the main hatch as I couldn't get it in without cutting the side of the opening. Must be able to remove all moving parts or they will fail.  Made the bowsprit & mounted the mast.  Using 2 levels to make sure mast are in line & perpendicular. Any one got any thing to say, I know you are looking. R.G.Y.
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: hammer on March 06, 2017, 09:08:24 AM
Arms on the servos, and the sheet runs under the deck installed. I normally use plastic fuel tube could only get silicone tube this time. Not so good as It is a lot more flexible, and gluing the ends a bit of a problem.  Wire threaded through to pull cord later.
The carrying handle may have to be removed to get the hatch on when on display. We will see it will be touch and go.
Derek, Answer from other thread, I didn't know Captain Jimmy, unfortunately. 
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: hammer on March 07, 2017, 01:59:22 PM
My method for control of the rudder, springs. The number of times I have hit the rudder loading the models in the car and damaging the controls!! numerous. Now the springs take the shock. 
Sub deck fixed and planks ready, supplied by well known fast food & coffee houses.
Made kits for the deck houses, the side shown at the bottom upside down to show chamfered corners.  Motor shed on left. Plane ply roofs.
My pilot cutter just unpacked not sailed for two years  As lost club lake and the new pond not big enough for a 16th scale boat with no motor. I am going to sail in our river , with a bit of luck, can only sail three quarters hour each side of high tide, can reach 10 knots on the ebb.  Sprayed sails with water hopefully the creases will fall out. Speak to me.
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: JayDee on March 07, 2017, 07:42:41 PM

Hello Robert,


The springs in the Rudder linkage are a good idea !!.
I will have to give them a try on my boats.


John.   :-))
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: ballastanksian on March 07, 2017, 08:28:13 PM
This is an excellent build and also a great store of tips Robert. The divider idea (probably as old as the hills but new to me) is inspired and bother free.

As Jay Dee said, the spring rudder control linkages are a great idea.
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: Tug-Kenny on March 08, 2017, 10:42:50 AM

I also like the  SPRINGS  idea.  What a brilliant idea,  especially for transporting it around.

Well done Sir.

ken
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: hammer on March 08, 2017, 04:34:05 PM
Thanks all three of you for speaking to me, it tells me I'm not wasting my time on the computer.
The springs need to be quite strong. Obviously a pair or one cut in half, as in my case.
Gluing the deck house, lay it flat masking tape on the outside, glue on chamfer, fold square and hold. View of finished joint.
Laid the cover boards and another coat of paint.
Mystery photo, answer soon, there is a clue in one of the photos.
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: derekwarner on March 08, 2017, 09:38:04 PM
Ahhhh. setting of the shrouds RGY?...we see a series of angled references marked on the deck

How do you establish these?......take the centre shroud an reference and vertical line from the tip of the mast?, then position another shroud line on either side? [or just copy from an image of the original vessel?]

This may sound simple, however for the mainsail, you have a 5th shroud line marking going aft of the main 4??

I am sure you will know what I mean as my yachting knowledge  :o is near zero

Derek
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: derekwarner on March 09, 2017, 12:09:15 AM
 %)..."we see a series of angled references marked on the deck"...  >>:-( sorry, side of the  hull ...

 :embarrassed: ...Derek
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: hammer on March 09, 2017, 09:31:20 AM
Yes Derek those are the chain plate alignment marks. I forgot to mention that I had marked them in when the masts where in position. Down from the hounds on the main & three quarters the way up the mizzen. They must be inline with each shroud. The fifth one at a shallow angel is the backstay.   
The mystery photo will be revealed soon.
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: hammer on March 09, 2017, 02:09:55 PM
The mystery picture is two strips of balsa with rubber stuck between. Rubber from a windscreen wiper which split. Did anyone notice the extra hatch in the bow. Just in case I need access for ballast or the cable runs need attention. Rubber seal now fitted.
Lining up the centre planks (only front one shown) with a string line. So when I clear deck house & hatches there will be a straight line.
Also made 32 dead eye. Hurray.
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: hammer on March 10, 2017, 04:52:32 PM
Assembled the deck house, still a bit to do, sort doors, rest for mizzen boom, skylights & paint.
All the spars are now shaped, ( three artist brushes & a pencil.) fittings to make.  In between all those deck planks!! Mod only 9 spars in photo should be 11. main mast, top mast, mizzen mast, bowsprit, staysail boom, main boom, mizzen boom, main gaff, mizzen gaff, main jack yard, & mizzen jack yard.
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: hammer on March 13, 2017, 04:57:51 PM
Made a mistake with the staysail boom, I picked it up and used it for the mizzen boom. that's why I was one spar short, all sorted now.
Had a change of plan with the deckhouse glazing. With the kit I made the intension was, cut out the windows & stick the clear plastic on the back. I normally use pop bottles for this, being bent it needs a backing.  But S.W.M.B.O. bought some fish in a flat plastic tray, unfortunately  she had washed it otherwise the boat would have smelt of the sea. I cut a square laid it on top of the pattern & stuck veneer to it.   Much better as the glass is the correct distance in.  Photo of pattern.
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: hammer on March 14, 2017, 01:00:31 PM
Plodding on with the deck planks, notching in to the cover board takes the time. I use marker pen to simulate the pitch in joints. I have found it better to only mark one side of the joint. Notice the centre plank I did both sides to much. Will improve when scraped, using a hard back razor blade for this. Neighbour gave me 1,000, should see me out.
The free planks have to be closely inspected for straightness & width. 
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: hammer on March 15, 2017, 05:03:11 PM
Still plodding on. In between started blocks 40 required, first stage glue cross pieces to strip, the excess trimmed off later. far to fiddly to glue the right length.  The double blocks have an aluminium strip in the middle later.
 Very thin light ply wound & glued around tube, for mast hoops.
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: ballastanksian on March 15, 2017, 10:17:28 PM
I like the joggling on your deck planking Hammer  :-)) Did you use elderly brush handles or buy cheap ones and re-purpose? That is another good idea saving time shaping dowel to shape.

Don't worry about feedback, I am sure your topic is being read by many, the views number will tell you how much you are giving to the forum membership, especially when you add tips like the spring linkages  :}
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: hammer on March 16, 2017, 05:20:54 PM
ballastanksian, you obviously don't know me, I try not to buy anything. So the brushes old & worn out. Your mention of the joggling made me think some one may like to know how I do it. I place the plank in position over the covering board, mark the edge where it crosses the covering board, at the point come into the covering board. In this model about 3/32" ( depends on scale) straight line between these points & cut. Place the plank back in position cut the covering board down the side of the plank with a scalpel. Being very careful not to slice a finger. Nice to hear from you, not from far away ether.
Have enough mast hoops for the mizzen. more to cut for the main, cut slices with a razor saw, when on a mandrel,( in this case a pluming fitting wrapped with tape). Other wise it will collapse, after every cut I apply super glue to the end. A photo of the main model there are lots of bits made as well. 
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: derekwarner on March 16, 2017, 10:39:05 PM
It's OK Ian......our friend RGY is well known as a model builder of great resourceful manner, utilizing any materials he can lay his hands upon %)

Coffee stirrers from Mc Donies  are a great favourite

He is such a spend thrift  ok2...he has a small glass jar on the fireplace mantle with the 'sixpence' from his first wage pay packet way back in 1959 

You will realise this coin bears the image of the very young Monarch QEII..................Derek  %%
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: hammer on March 17, 2017, 04:07:12 PM
Thank you Derek you know me so well. Haven't found any use for cider cans in this build.
 But I was paid 1, 1 shilling & nine pence for my first wage, had to give my mum 10 shillings. I never got an Australian six pence & the date was 1955 not 1959.
One more line of planks starboard side then sand & scrape, this has been done in yellow circle.
Forward hatch now you see it now you don't. Batteries & receiver going in here. I was sure I needed to get in the space.   The companionway ( square not planked ) will hide the radio & motor switches.
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: hammer on March 18, 2017, 03:47:42 PM
I am away for a few days. I have made very small hinges for other models, if anyone is interested, tell me and I will show you how. If not I will continue with Irene when I return. R.G.Y.
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: hammer on March 27, 2017, 04:59:46 PM
I have returned. No one wants to make miniature hinges then. I will need larger ones for the wash ports later. The wash ports on Irene are of a rare type hung on the forward edge not the top.  How are they kept shut? this is where me job as a carpenter comes to the rescue. If the bottom hinge is farther out from the frame than the top a door will rise slightly as it opens, this will also tend to close the door. or in this case the wash port, & that is how it was done.
While I was away I realised a mistake. West country roller reefing as on Irene has to have a parallel boom, so the paint brush handles sacrificed for nothing.
The dolly winch, three different  types, can see Irene has the cast iron type. before I went away I made a kit. First finding suitable gears ( have a box full, all second hand). Turn two brass rings cutting off a section. Super glue sections together & drill the holes. Heat them up to release the glue, that's why there black. Soft solder the bits together and paint. Black at the present but will have to change to green, the traditional  colour for iron work on deck, black on mast iron work.
 
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: hammer on March 28, 2017, 04:15:28 PM
Placed the deck fittings, just so I can see how she will look.
Finished the dolly winch, now the correct colour. Held down with self tapping screws, the two forward will now have slots filled, they are filed square to make them more authentic. The aft pair hold the secret hatch down, so the slots will remain, they are square though. The front of the hatch slots under projecting planks.
I am always working on more than one job at any one time. Lantern lights for the accommodation & fixing down the deck house. Details tomorrow may be as I am bowling.   
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: Brian60 on March 28, 2017, 05:12:18 PM
Cheers for the heads up on the post Hammer, I hadn't realised you had one on the go as I don't check this R&D forum. Still I have caught up from page one and its looking like another epic build! I'd be interested in the hinges build, I have a couple to make for my drop down doors in the bow of my current build.
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: hammer on March 29, 2017, 02:34:36 PM
No trouble Brian, is your build here?
Hinges. Cut a strip of brass shim approximately 15mm wide length depending how many hinges are wanted.  Next cut a 1.5mm outside diameter tube 10mm longer than the shim. This is so solder won't capillarate  into the tube. Apply the flux and fix down on a thermal builders brick, using fire cement. Small pieces of silver solder are placed next to the tube, not to much. Soft solder is no good as it will melt when grinding the groves. I now use a small lathe to grind the groves, Dremal mandrill & disc. But I have done it by hand with a "Dremal" to a larger scale. Being more accurate in the lathe, if the tube is uppermost the grinder will bend the shim slightly allowing the finished hinge to close together tighter. Cut the shim to the size required,  last photo marked ready. Fit a dress makers pin into the tube cut off the end and secure with super glue (gel type only on the end of pin).
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: hammer on March 29, 2017, 02:51:20 PM
Sky lights they would be lantern light on a house. Finished, the aft light slots in to the roof can be removed to screw down deck house. Finished the motor winch shed. Matt varnished the deck & the fittings above. Of course the deck on a working boat was not clear timber, it would be painted with ant thing to hand, Lead paint mixed with old engine oil a favourite. But no one likes that on a model. Under coat on the hull grey, brushed on that way small imperfections can be filled.
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: derekwarner on March 29, 2017, 10:11:55 PM
Silver soldering the hinge......my example of that pencil torch you show is about as useful as a soggy box of matches on Guy Fawkes night.... {-).....I don't know how it could solder anything  >>:-(

Derek
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: Brian60 on March 30, 2017, 08:59:20 AM
I've used my wifes baking blow torch in the past, those things you see on the cookery programs. The damn thing has more heat energy than my big diy/plumbers blow torch! My build is up a few forums, its the blue ship in my avatar, stril barents. But its come to grinding halt for quite a while - lots of seemingly unsurmountable problems that need to be overcome all that the same time. My own fault for wanting to make it all operational.
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: hammer on March 30, 2017, 02:32:50 PM
Right again Derek, I don't silver solder using that small torch. I had just finished soft soldering parts of the dolly winch. The needle point flame allowed me to solder with in 1/2" of joints done before.
Brian I know the problem, I very often get a idea in the middle of the night.
Put the 4 jaw in the lathe turned spigots on the stations & Samson post, cut off with razor saw. 50 sanctions + a couple extra. No problem fixing the bowsprit held the Samson post & bowsprit together drill a hole through, fit a brass rod. The problem I do have is the rails. The main rail is quite low, but the topgallant rail is unsupported by the sanctions. Just resting on a single plank very weak.
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: hammer on March 31, 2017, 02:21:14 PM
Oh dear, there always has to be trouble in a build, lets hope its the only one. When I was rubbing down the under coat & filling some imperfections, I noticed resin from the inside had run into the thread on the prop shaft. I have tried to scrape it out with a point but cant shift it. I cant get a die on to it without cutting a large part of the rudder post away. Another option is drill it out & start again. But drilling out brass encased in wood no. But last night I had a cunning plan, use that little blow torch, (the one Derek & Brian don't like) & set fire to it. So Monday out in the garden with a fire extinguisher. May be posting a pile of ashes next week.   
Any way I have painted the stanchions blue, stuck to carpet tape to stop them blowing away from the spray. I made a gauge to drill the holes for them allowing for the planks.   
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: hammer on April 02, 2017, 05:02:28 PM
Had a day in the shop today as no racing. The burn was successful the resin gone from the thread & the bearing holder screwed on. Can get the motor back in soon.
Cut the rail to fit the deck plus the length forward & aft to fit.
Painted the hull black & the ply I will be using for the bulwark  planking cream.
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: hammer on April 03, 2017, 02:13:28 PM
Replaced the motor, rudder & drop keel then had a floatation test. Evan with 2 batteries in the bow, 2 large sail arm servo and the steel keel, a lot of lead required to bring her down to the waterline.   Gave another coat of black, also put the zinc protection plates on the bow. Paper soaked & stuck with paint. 
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: hammer on April 04, 2017, 03:23:32 PM
 As she was launched yesterday, so made proper a stand. Just visible in photo 2.
Started on the rail, using PVA glue this time as need time to get it right.
Chain plates, trying to replicate the drawing. First cut strips of brass on bandsaw.  Soft soldered a 1mm inside diameter tube to the ends. Notice fire cement holding tube in place, tube longer than joint to stop solder entering tube. Started to leave a gap between each strip, but they need to be tapered, so not necessary. Bind the deadeye to the tube with copper wire. This allows the deadeye to swivel.
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: hammer on April 04, 2017, 03:32:03 PM
Sorry got a bit confused with the pictures. Tried to delete one of the twin just added another & deleted no2. Hear is photo 2. Grand & great grand children tomorrow, so have to keep out shop .
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: ballastanksian on April 04, 2017, 09:12:50 PM
Hey west country neighbour! She is coming along really nicely. It was interesting to see your method of joggling and that it fits with other methods I have seen, so yet another tip to add to the memory.

Now I have learnt that materials to be soldered need to be very clean, I am enjoying the odd bit of model engineering I am doing.   

Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: hammer on April 06, 2017, 04:11:29 PM
Finished the handrail apart from a bit of sanding & varnish.
drilled all the 1mm holes in the chainplates OK I broke the drill after 10, but rubbed it on the grinder
believe it or not it drilled the remaining 6.
The metal work on the bowsprit made, just have to remove & paint black, after etching primer.
Measure the bowsprit where band is wanted, drill a hole in a brass rod to that size. Turn down the out side  until I think its thin enough & part off. Make the small rings by rapping brass wire around a small rod, several more times than the number of rings required. Cut down the centre of the rod with junior hack saw ( a tip hold in the vice & use the jaw as a guide). Soft solder onto the bands & the dolphin striker. The gammon band (in silver ) is just a pattern for next time.
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: hammer on April 08, 2017, 09:37:23 AM
Having really pushed on in the last Two & a half months. It will slow down now as the outdoor bowling starts next week. Not much to report anyway making the metal fittings for the mast & painting, will keep me busy.
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: Brian60 on April 08, 2017, 03:41:11 PM
Same here. After enduring a damn cold winter where its been too cold to be in the craft room which is unheated. I just begin again and the weather has gone from winter to summer in 3 weeks, totally missing out Spring. So its all outside living now  :embarrassed: :embarrassed:
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: derekwarner on April 08, 2017, 10:35:56 PM
RGY....in Australia we have a pass time called Barefoot Bowling at our many Bowling clubs......this is to encourage youngsters and families to join in & make a fun day in the sunshine with a lunch at the Bistro...[and a beer]

The only problem I encounter is my 10 & 7 YO grandsons seem to better my score every time  >>:-(

I know you will accept my Pre Paid apology for the deviation off the plotted course  {-)

Looking forward to continued progress.... Derek
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: hammer on April 09, 2017, 12:04:27 PM
Derek, its fine, with sail the wind makes a ship deviate often. Any post is most welcome even from you. {-) {-) :} %) No you know I love them really.
Brian, I am ploughing through your POSH venture build what a lot. We haven't had an winter this year in Teignmouth. Fifteen minutes of snow gone in sixty seconds & two frost so far. We have a micro climate here on the English Rivera, OK its not Spain not twenty miles up the road ether. Photo of one of our palm trees eighteen feet high at last measure. The low windows are into circular & chop saw room.
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: hammer on April 10, 2017, 04:03:13 PM
I did manage to get something done today, before the grand children arrived, staying the night. Clamped some bulwark planks on & fitted one chain plate. Notice the bulwarks are stepped back in from the hull. Three inch planks on the hull & one inch on the bulwarks. Although the stanchions are tennoned into the cover board, the tennons are clear of hull planks.  I have tried to replicate this, not many do.
Put it all together just to inspire myself.
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: hammer on April 12, 2017, 03:45:35 PM
Chain plates fitted on one side, glued & pined.  The arrow indicating the string used to line plates exactly to each shroud. 
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: hammer on April 13, 2017, 10:13:48 AM
I have fallen into the trap of building without a plan. Over scale the chain plates scale 9" wide there coming off, I hope!! Along with the hand rail. :embarrassed:
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: hammer on April 13, 2017, 04:49:20 PM
And the bulwark planking all off, the glue sticks to metal, wood & paint. Luckily paint don't stick to ether that well.
 After the destruction thought I better make something. So made two double blocks. Had to use a magnifying glass to turn the sheaves on the lathe, they rotate on a dressmakers pin. Will be oiling them not varnishing ceasing up. 
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: Brian60 on April 14, 2017, 01:05:51 PM
The patience of Job to make those Hammer. When I did my sailing trawler I worked out how large the sheaves should be at 1:48 then looked around for commercial items that were close enough %)
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: hammer on April 14, 2017, 04:06:30 PM
Patience Brian, I think you know better, I am up to page 8 on your See Hunter, looking at the winch build, that's patience. Like you say each item is a job on its own, finally hopefully fitting all together makes a model.
Only made two blocks, need two triples, should be no problem, but need thirty smaller singles. But I have a cunning plan. For next week or when ever.
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: hammer on April 18, 2017, 05:20:17 PM
Thought I would have ago at the fittings for the booms. The bands around the mast made as before ( bore a bar to fit & part off). Solder a lug on place on a mandrill together & drill pivot hole, so they are the same.  The barrel, drill down the centre of a 3/16th rod to fit a 3/32 rod. Solder on a lug wile soldering the rods together. Notice the small rod protrudes farther out at the bottom. This is so as I take the tension of the sail the top can pull out freeing the barrel, allowing the sail to be rolled around the boom. The lug is drilled 10BA clearance. The rod in the centre of the boom is turned from hexagon bar, a saw cut down the centre of the remaining hexagon. Drilled & tap 10BA & clearance one side. Now looking in my old gears, thinking of a size to make the reefing drum a stroke of luck. I found the wheels from a correction tape dispenser just the job. 
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: hammer on April 19, 2017, 03:11:06 PM
What am I going to use part of milk container for, Answer soon maybe tomorrow.
Finished the goose necks, or are they cranes, something like that. The mizzen shown as operating, the main shown released so the sail can be reefed. In the passed I have removed the 10BA bolt to achieve this, but small bolt small hole cold fingers not ideal. 
Both jack stays are on the booms, hope they are strong enough, very thin. Also in the photos can be seen the start of the topgallant rail.
Temporary string for stays, so I can make patterns for the sails. This could be a long job if I stich them when sat watching rubbish on TV. But I do have another cunning plan. 
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: derekwarner on April 19, 2017, 03:53:05 PM
RGY....maybe just because I am in OZ, or your images have crossed the International Date line  :-)

But.... as shown.....does the Mizzen Boom clear the top of the [Aft] Deck House/wheel helm roof?

....or is it time I went to Spec Savers  {-)

Derek
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: hammer on April 20, 2017, 02:59:21 PM
Howzat!! not out Derek. Sloping down just a touch, the topping lift will rise it over the crutch, rest to you. No one had a guess at what the milk container was for.  The handle cut at the top makes a good ventilator. I have used this method before, strong & light. Most important of all, cost nothing. In this case had to make it smaller. Slit down the front overlapped & melted back together, with that pencil blow torch. Look close just 2 little ripples on the join. The one I have soldered all the mast fittings with. Brian & Derek so there.  :kiss: Hammer. 
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: hammer on April 21, 2017, 03:37:29 PM
Here is a trick I am proud of. The cast hawser hole in the bulwarks can be difficult to carve. This is the easy way. Drill a hole down the centre of a dowel, of a suitable size. Cut off the end at a sharp angle, then a slice at a slightly less angle. Then cut in half across the shortest point, turn one piece over & glue back together.  (right hand side No 4) A bit of sanding jobs a good'un.
 Chain plates back on bulwarks finished, even around the stern.
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: Brian60 on April 21, 2017, 06:52:48 PM
Milk bottle, I know I know :embarrassed:

Cut a diagonal from the handle to the opposite bottom corner. You then have a handy scoop for filling plantpots with compost. If you leave the cap in place it can also be used to water the same pots  O0 %) %)

Ot take the cap off and use to mix small amounts of paint on the top or upside down to have a small amount of thinners in to clean brush.

Or cut off across the bottle below the handle and you have a container to mix polyester or epoxy resin in, when any remainder sets, the bottle can be flexed and the dried lump falls out so it can be re-used. :embarrassed: :embarrassed:

But I don't think you meant any of these.
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: hammer on April 24, 2017, 05:16:28 PM
Yes well done Brian.
Other things are getting in the way now. But managed to finish both gaffs, with all metal work. The pully for the gaff sail sheet, the smallest yet. Sheve only 1/8th
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: hammer on April 25, 2017, 05:16:43 PM
The cunning plan for the sails. Heming & stitching is difficult to get anywhere near to scale, unless the scale is large. So I experimented with the flying jib, worked very well. Except I have the bolt rope on the wrong side. I had tried this on glass before but the glue puddled showing badly.
Using the Paper pattern cut out the cloth ( I use ticking) With at least 1/2" all around. Mine was washed & ironed. This was because it has been folded in a drawer since the last boat.
Cut 4 Teflon blocks & drilled 2 holes ( Teflon cut from an old chopping board). A panel pin through holes one up one down. Place paper pattern on a board, nail the blocks so the nail sticking up is on the point. The other nail is clear of pattern, this will allow the block to pivot. Wind a string that has been soaked in PVA (water resistant type) around the nails.
The cloth is slightly dampened with a spray, not to much or it will be to heavy & also the glue could run.  Push the nails up through the cloth letting it sag again not to much.
When dry remove it from board, cut off the excess cloth as tight as possible to the string. I then mark the panels with pencil. I do this on both sides, after the first side I tape it to the window so I can see & get them the same. Then give sail a coat of very watery coat of PVA, some mixed with acrylic paint.
Seen on my model Flying Foam I had over done it a bit.   
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: hammer on April 26, 2017, 04:15:32 PM
The photo yesterday with no comment. Is a hit & miss vent, cut to make gratings, painted streaky brown. This is not my idea, its a good one.
The hawser hole finished & the stern ready for filler & paint. Will finish hull paint before completing topgallant rail.   
Although I have a stand still using the pillow, as it makes a good pin cushion.       
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: hammer on April 28, 2017, 03:53:23 PM
On my larger model the halyards have been done as the prototype. This leaves a lot of string to coil at the pin rail, very fiddly. The cunning plan this time, disguise  a block as a bowsie.  Have done an experiment & it works. Not done much else.
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: hammer on May 01, 2017, 01:45:34 PM
No play again, getting serious.
 Hopefully to morrow I can start on the punt (ships boat). I have made a dozen or so before, but this will be the smallest yet. Only 5.5" long 2" wide 1.5" deep.
 Picture shows one off my pilot cutter 12" long. It is true despite the photo & it floats.
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: Brian60 on May 02, 2017, 04:22:57 AM
I like the pin idea for the bolt rope. I'm assuming you do overclocking stitching and not just rely on the glue.
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: hammer on May 02, 2017, 05:09:05 PM
Thanks for the like Brian. Stitching not yet, all part of the experiment, we will see. Looks strong now what happens in a gale how knows.
 Found a jig I used before to make a 6" clinker boat, can be altered to fit 5.5" clamped in vice. The stem & keel made from 3 thin strips of mahogany. The centre piece standing proud of the two thinner outer pair, forming a rebate. In larger boats I normally cut a groove. Cut out the transom glue together & pin on the jig ready for the planks.   
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: hammer on May 03, 2017, 04:17:42 PM
The garboard strakes fitted on the ships boat, only one each side per day. Blue tape on temporary frames to prevent boat sticking to them.
The hatch cover finished. Just the pumps to complete the deck fittings.
Hull looking resplendent with grey topsides. To stop paint running under masking tape, I balanced the boat upside down between two of my benches.  I had to do this as I had glued the mast in prematurely. To get from one side to the other, I had to crawl under My back hit the mast  bout self righted BANG on floor. Lucky the only damage snapped the mizzen mast in half. managed to glue it back, but will have to really on the shrouds.   
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: hammer on May 04, 2017, 04:24:42 PM
Managed to mend the broken mast, won't have to rely on the shrouds.  Because it had splintered over about an inch, managed to push it back together with glue. A tap on the top with a hammer, can hardly be seen & as strong as before.
Fitted the topgallant rail, first I fit a strip against the out side, then mark the width by finger & pencil. Cut on band saw round off the corners done.
 Two more planks on the punt. Using very thin ply about 1.5mm.
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: hammer on May 07, 2017, 10:19:10 AM
No workshop, no cider, no racing, no bowls. Had two days in hospital had a minor stroke.
 Back soon. Hammer
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: derekwarner on May 07, 2017, 10:22:49 AM
RGY..... >>:-( there is nothing minor about a stroke ....so take care my good friend...........& leave those pretty nurses  :kiss:...alone

Derek
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: Brian60 on May 08, 2017, 09:48:40 AM
As so you had a TIA then (transient ischaemic attack) yes its a minor stroke BUT treat it the same as you would a full blown one! Take care mate, as a long term nhs employee I've seen plenty and dispensed medication for plenty. At the end of the day, a stroke is a stroke, take the relevant precautions and recover your health, do not treat it lightly - take it as a warning that a major one could follow if you don't look after yourself.
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: hammer on May 08, 2017, 11:02:44 AM
Derek and Brian thank you both for your concern. If it hadn't been for my wife I probably wouldn't have known I had had a T.I.A. In my shop my left eye felt strange & I had a head ache. So I went & made myself a cup of tea. Just then my wife came home, said she had seen a couple of our best friend. I didn't know who she was talking about. She asked me to name our children I could not for about 5 mins. So straight of in the ambulance, sirens going.  Yes I do know about strokes my fathers death started was T.I.A.s. Horrible and worse for a partner. I have no physical signs at the moment, so that's good. I will be doing as I am told because I am being waited on hand and foot now. Just going to hospital. :-)) :-))
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: hammer on May 16, 2017, 11:23:09 AM
I managed to get down to my workshop this morning. Forty five minuets was enough. Wile I have been resting the last ten days did a lot of thinking, always dangerous. One of the conclusions, ships boat to big on the old mould.  So I have made one 5/8th lower & 1" shorter. Improved the design by slotting the frames over the support, so the position can be adjusted.  Altered the start I had made by cutting an inch off the keel & re attaching the transom, after reducing its height.   Removed the 4 planks, scrap.
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: hammer on May 17, 2017, 01:08:09 PM
 Managed an hour to day. I have said before the big danger building without plans is getting things to BIG. Along with the boat above, the ventilator I made, the same to BIG. Now made one of metal. Flattened a square of copper from a 15mm water pipe. Drilled a larger hole in an old strap hinge, there was a good chamfer on the hole already. Rounded off the end of a 3/8 steel bar. Annealing the copper twice, after forming trim with snips, completed the dome no problem.  The hard part was hold it in the correct position to solder it to the down tube.
Also fixed the first strake on the new ships boat.   
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: derekwarner on May 17, 2017, 11:17:20 PM
Ah......we can see who excelled at trigamawatse at school...all of those truncated cones & thingies  %)

From what we see you have used that age old standard...

A <d B <O C >b / jk ......[pretty smart were those old Roman pyramid builders  ok2 ]

...Clearly with the intention to capture air at atmospheric pressure and increase the velocity is a laminar manner, thus increasing combustion air pressure in the engine room by 0.00000005 PSI and dramatically improving efficiency  {-)


Derek
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: hammer on May 18, 2017, 09:28:43 AM
That's exactly how I worked it out Derek.  {-)   :D   Finally decided on position for the switches, radio & motor.  As I will need the hatch open to lift the handle. 
One thing I forgot to mention the mast hoops have to be on before fixing the mast.
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: hammer on May 18, 2017, 04:10:57 PM
The engine hatch, pumps & the ventilator in place. I have drilled up through the tube into the bowl.  Need to decide where the exhaust is going it looks like its almost adjacent the mizzen mast. don't want the main sheet getting tangled. 
I am showing a patch on the tarpaulin on the main hatch, an accident the ply used had a label stuck on it. When I covered it with fine nylon it showed through. So it became a patch.
 Also need some small hinges for the wash ports. 
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: hammer on May 19, 2017, 02:33:09 PM
Continuing slowly with ships boat. I saw an article in model boats mag on building a clinker boat. The modeller had used straight planks, in reality only two planks are straight the first & the last. They have a more pronounced curve as they get to the bilge and then straighten as they neer the top. Photo of the third planks ether side.
I found a model of the motor fitted in Irene 1930, seen here. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Pa7K287VlU   An ELLWE 2fb.
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: hammer on May 20, 2017, 04:38:47 PM
Just found more evidence on Irene. Harold H. Underhill, in Deep Water Sail said of "Irene" topsides painted white. Will do that should look good. Also she only has 1ft 2ins freeboard when down to her mark. That will be 1/2ins at my scale. So I will require more lead, but not down that low..
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: bbdave on May 20, 2017, 05:59:05 PM
Interesting read I'm about to undertake a pilot cutter build and it's good to look how others go about building and a fellow Teignmouth resident.


Dave
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: hammer on May 21, 2017, 06:53:58 PM
The reason I won't be loading her down to 1ft 2ins is that is above the hole for the carry handle. Although I have a rubber washer to stop any splash I don't want it under water.
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: hammer on May 22, 2017, 08:38:55 PM
Finding it difficult to concentrate since my T.I.A. So I have abandoned the clinker punt for the time.
Changed to the rigging & making blocks.   
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: hammer on May 23, 2017, 05:23:24 PM
Made the hinges for the wash ports, shown earlier how I make my small hinges,(page 4) so no repeat. The size can be judged by dress makers pin & 1.5mm holes.
Painted top sides white need another coat, & rub down, gloss showing imperfections.
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: hammer on May 24, 2017, 03:26:13 PM
Still making pulley blocks. One thing not shown, I cut a slither off the end of 15mm copper water pipe. Binding the block & providing a fixing point. This is not my original idea. 
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: hammer on May 25, 2017, 03:00:43 PM
Completed enough blocks to get the gaffs up. So I was able to make patterns for the remaining sails. Will be making sails one a day, although won't be rigging them as I need proper cord. Instead of the string as now. On order but long time coming, even longer when waiting.
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: hammer on May 26, 2017, 03:32:52 PM
Finished the wash ports at last, after much experiment still can't get them to close automatically. Putting the pin out of line won't work as there isn't enough weight. Even tried lead instead of wood still no good. If they stay open after letting out water so what. The hinges stuck on with epoxy, the door nailed & nails riveted on inside. Frame nailed into stanchion. Just a delicate bit of painting now, not my best skill. The load line is the pencil line as 1929. Dr Morrish's plan shows it a lot lower as less ballast was carried. this didn't do the handling an favours apparently.  He also had port holes below the old load line.
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: Brian60 on May 26, 2017, 06:16:20 PM
That's a strange way for the washport doors to operate. I'm not saying its wrong but maybe if you had hinged at the top they would close better?
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: hammer on May 27, 2017, 04:54:23 PM
Yes Brian top hung would be easy, unfortunately the prototype had them side hung. There's not alot I don't know about hanging doors, regularly hanging 48 per day.( that was 50 years a go) An expectable standard then would be 8 per day. The faster you are the better you had to be as the Clarke of Works would look a lot closer. As I said before the hinges would be thrown to make them shut. That is the top hinge fixed further in than the bottom, as the door opens it will rise, useful when floors are uneven. 
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: hammer on May 28, 2017, 03:45:03 PM
One lifebuoy turned off the end of a broomstick.
Ira Arthur Aldridge master1927 (no cert:). was responsible for the enclosed wheel house 1929.
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: hammer on May 29, 2017, 03:41:01 PM
Sent away for some rigging cord. After waiting a week it arrived, well I got it wrong far to thin. So I have decided to make a rope walk. Then I can make exactly what I want. 
Found a set of gears from my rubbish, probably out of an old printer. Turned axels to fit the bore with a sharp point on the end. Placed a small gear against the large on top of 3/4 ply. with the axial in each of the two, tap with hammer & gives the spacing. draw a circle & divide by three. Drill the holes starting with a small drill, then one of the correct size. Cut the point off axels & push through the holes. An angel cut on the axels of the  small gears where they protrude through the ply. These will hold the cord, & the tension will hold the gears in mesh. I am using an off cut of decking board for the track. That's the Whorls finished, when I have strapped the drill down, I will cut the ply to fit, plenty of length on top, if I need, just turn it over.  Just the Topper & Looper  to follow soon.
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: derekwarner on May 29, 2017, 11:20:04 PM
I will be watching RGY...... :o.....do it need a centre core?........... Derek
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: hammer on May 30, 2017, 04:07:16 PM
I was wondering where you had got to Derek.  :kiss: Keep looking. :o  Three strands twisted right= rope. three rope twisted left =cable. four strands twisted right over a centre core = shroud. This will need another gear in the whorl I do have another gear. the others will have to be re -spaced. Probably to much, depends how I get on. 
Ripe walk ready for test tomorrow, fingers crossed. Seven ft eight ins long should produce about five ft of rope. The pictures should be self explanatory. One thing the weight box stuck with tape as glue not dry.
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: derekwarner on May 30, 2017, 10:45:20 PM
Right RGY >>:-(....I have heard of a Penny Farthing bi-cycle O0....but not a Penny Wheeled Rope Walk Trolley    :o

Thanks for the info on construction......your machine looks perfect...& a little less expensive that the US$2800.00 110 volt variable speed version I say on e-Bay....[from memory a link posted by our member Danielle from Switzerland]

Don't dismantle the machinery, as I may need to get some subcontract ropes/cables/shrouds made sometime in the future

[Flattening a penny coin under a train wheel was a pastime for kids......but big trouble :police: if you got caught ..... so just per chance do you know what form of wound construction was the hangman's twine?............]

Derek

PS 1....is it a two person operation ?...one to roll the wheels & walk the walk & the other to press the Patented Speed Controller?......if so just give me a yell & I'll pop over with a few bottles of Cider for morning Tea  {-)

PS 2.....from a constructional aspect, if we produced a rope, cable or shroud of 6' 6" in overall length and found it was 1" too long, would we reinstall it in the machine and the person in charge of the Patented Speed Controller reverse the mechanism to unwind the 1"...or do you just cut it off? :P
 
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: hammer on May 31, 2017, 03:41:54 PM
Q1 One man operation (person), sorry Derek couldn't afford the air fair. Nor could I afford pennies for the wheels, only Half pennies. On top of all that nurse band cider  :embarrassed: after my problem.
Q2 As you know rope is whipped on the ends to stop it unwinding. I just dab the end with super glue, where I want to cut it. I am a bit disappointed as I only get 4ft from 7.5ft. I have another length of decking board, could cut that down the middle, that would make 23ft.
As for the hangman's noose it did one of me ancestors no good at all. He didn't leave a note. Your  ancestor got off,  light just deported.   The English aristocracy treated us peasants worse than anyone.   :o
One mod on the walk, three saw cuts in the top, of the looper post & a nail at the bottom. saw cuts hold the treads until tied & the nail stops the looper falling to the floor. Works very well, at first nothing happens then all of a sudden the topper rushes up to the end, and have to stop it quick.
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: hammer on June 01, 2017, 02:53:31 PM
Back on the ships boat. I hold the next plank up against the last. (difficult to photograph need more hands.) Mark where it needs to be shaped. A touch of super glue at each end & join opposite side plank.(The ends cut off later.) In the vice & shaped with a spoke shave. When it fits mark how wide it needs to be at stem ,transom & temp frames. Join the marks by eye & trim down. Cut off the ends separate & glue on the boat. Leave till next day even with quick drying glue, as quite a pressure has to be applied.  See how bent the planks are. I am propping down from the ceiling as the squeeze on the planks pushes boat off the temp frame. 
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: Brian60 on June 03, 2017, 04:36:03 PM
Pretty sophisticated rope walk! when I made mine I never bothered with the clamp for the drill, just hand held it. I also found that to get decent length I went the whole length of the hallway - 10 metres. Then I moved into the garden to get longer rope  %) with a set of pulley's to get the weight to swing correctly at the other end. My bobbin was free hanging with a small weight underneath to stop it twirling around.
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: hammer on June 04, 2017, 12:10:42 PM
Thanks Brian, I have never done anything sophisticated before. Making 4ft is a wasteful way to make rope.  You have given me a good idea, I don't have a10 meter hall. I don't think it would go down well across the lounge into the kitchen.  But under my sun deck & conservatory will give me 35ft. I will dispense with the plank and fix the drill whorl unit & looper upside down on the joist. The topper can stay on the carriage hopefully the carriage will be heavy enough. I can leave it in place in the way of nothing.  :-))  Than you Brian.
R.G.Y.   
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: hammer on June 05, 2017, 02:37:15 PM
A wile ago now Brian of Humber Trawler fame http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,46369.0.html
asked if I was stitching the sails or relying on the glue only. All this time I have waited for a windy day, sure it came with rain also. I fixed the sail ( reject the bolt rope on the wrong side) to railings. Left there all morning no problems at all.  This was a sterner test as the railings don't give as the model will. So no stitching hurray.  {-)   The blue rope in background is washing line, most important to the wife. ;)
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: hammer on June 06, 2017, 02:55:32 PM
Ships boat planking completed at last, one problem it seems to have stretched on the jig. Could have left it hanging over the hatch, but no decided to cut off the back & add a new transom. The old shipwrights would cut a ship in half pull the ends apart & fill in the gap, so why not the other way around. Fitting out next.
Finished the pin rails on the bulwarks & the mast. cocktail sticks on rail & T pins on the mast. 
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: Brian60 on June 08, 2017, 09:51:01 AM
Coming along well mate, next time I build a ship with sails I'm going to pinch this idea! The novel approach to the planking on the small boat is novel, however looking at it in the photo's it seems to be a bit 'stubby' at the stern, out of proportion sort of. What I mean is, shouldn't it have a slight taper making it narrower toward the stern? Something just looks off?
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: hammer on June 08, 2017, 03:44:46 PM
True Brian the consequence of reducing the length, well it certainly didn't help maters.  I think it has improved with the ribs pushing the middle out. I hope to push it further out with the thwarts.
The ribs are split down  bamboo kebab sticks. Boiled & soaked 24 hours & boiled again just before use.
Something else I am not happy with are the mast hoops. Way over scale, as I said before the pit fall working with out a plan. I have an idea, but the new will have to be made on the mast.   
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: hammer on June 09, 2017, 04:25:27 PM
Made the parrals on main & mizzen gaffs. Small bits of plastic covering off electrical flex, strung on cord.
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: Brian60 on June 10, 2017, 01:42:22 PM
plastic tubes from cotton buds are the same size as the flex hammer :-))
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: hammer on June 12, 2017, 04:51:22 PM
 Ships boat almost there, just the duck boards & varnish now. I must say I struggled with this one, would not like to build any smaller. Well not with ply, cardboard may be. Managed to push the middle out a little improving the shape. Mine always seam to pinch in on removing from the temporary frames. Float test after the paint on outside.
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: hammer on June 15, 2017, 08:35:40 PM
Not been in the shop this week. The cotton bud tip is a good one Brian, sure someone will find it useful.  Still bigger than the flex I have though.
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: derekwarner on June 16, 2017, 12:12:20 AM
Flex......you in need of some small flex?

All single core - 99.999% pure oxygen free copper, 2.25 micron of 99.999% pure silver :kiss: plating over the conductor, Teflon coated, 99.999% pure aluminium reverse sheathed, Teflon colour spiral coated outer.....interference supressed to 10,000 МΩΩ)].......very flexible........ capable of withstanding 240 degrees C

Brand new, never used except in a simulated Naval War engagement....[it is the wiring loom from a  <*< Harpoon Missile]

I could post over a few yards FOC if needed O0....just let me know the required conductor size & the choice of spiral colours  %%

Derek

Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: hammer on June 16, 2017, 03:42:19 PM
Thanks very much. But no sale this time Del boy.
 Are you the OZ branch of Trotters International Trading.  {-)
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: hammer on June 17, 2017, 04:01:29 PM
Replaced the wooden oversize mast hoops, with plastic. Bent the plastic sheet around a dowel over the toaster. When the boss was out.   Note the mistake, had to remove the gaff & replace above the hoops.  :o
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: hammer on June 20, 2017, 04:35:21 PM
Duck boards fitted in punt. Oars, rowlocks & and painter next. The gripes holding the punt in place will be elastic & hook holding the hatch down, Ease to open to get at handle & switches. 
Bowsprit rigging almost compete, just 4 pulley blocks for down hauls. In this period bottle screws (turn buckles)  mostly used to tension fore stays. But just on the corner of one of the photos a lanyard can be seen.
 Irene now has netting to save any one falling. When there was no H&S the ropes across from outer stay & footrope, are not the save the crew but to stop rope & chain going in the sea.
I have not been idle repairing my old paddle steamer GLEN USK for an outing tomorrow. 
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: hammer on June 22, 2017, 04:24:22 PM
Replaced the wooden patterns for the servo arms. Used 1/16 plated steel edges bent to stiffen it up.
Both the main & mizzen will need more throw. Added two pulleys, outer for the main, inner a little less throw for mizzen. The pieces for the main spread showing construction. Of the fore sails only the stay sail needs more throw. No extra throw required on the  four jibs. They all attach to the brass swivels on top of the pulleys. The plates are also bent up the back of the pulleys to stop the guide lines falling off. When the wind isn't as quick as my finger.
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: Brian60 on June 22, 2017, 07:42:00 PM
I'm really liking all the bowsprit detail, the chains look the part. :-))
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: derekwarner on June 22, 2017, 11:48:32 PM
Yes Brian60...I think the bowsprit is very realistic too  :-)) and a credit to the builder  O0   

Hadn't posted any comment as I have spent the past 2 days with every copy of Middle Eastern Dictionaries available at the University of Sydney's Middle Eastern Regions Studies Rooms trying to translate the words or symbols as depicted   :-X

There appears to be a few oohs & ahys , but that's as far as I could decipher ....the last longish flat & curly symbol above the anchor chain hawser appears to be a visual abstract in someone's mind of a 2 masted vessel on the crest of a wave [however sailing astern :o]......[an alternate view on this could be a representation of a Shark with 2 fins swimming astern]

There is certainly a lot of images made by these folk over the past 2000 years

Derek
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: hammer on June 23, 2017, 08:45:45 PM
Thanks for the encouragement Brian. Derek, I was trying to spell Irene, but thinks I had to much zider. Sobered up making small bully blocks for down halls & top & jib sail halliards. A few tricks I use. A small chisel for cleaning the slots in the blanks. A needle knocked in the end of a piece of scrap wood, cut off the eye & sharpen on a diamond file. For fitting the wheel place on a stub of a dressmakers pin,(arrow) this will hold it wile filing. Knocking the pin through the block get to the stage
in photo, cut off head push right in & cut off. This allows the off cut to be used on the next block.
A finished block the scalpel showing the scale.
Finale photo the hounds & gaff on the main.
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: hammer on June 26, 2017, 04:05:50 PM
Having got fed up with making blocks & rope, needed to see progress on the model. So decided to hoist a sail. Made the hanks, by pulling a wire around a small rod in the lathe. Painted black & cot up.
By the way Brian, I failed to make the long up side down ropewalk work, kept getting tangled.
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: Brian60 on June 26, 2017, 05:49:28 PM
Not enough counterweight on the bobbin :-)) If its suspended rather than a 'run along' cart, just add a weight hanging off it, think of a yacht keel, its the same principle, except the weight stops the bobbin spinning around.
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: hammer on June 27, 2017, 07:11:47 PM
OK Brian you think the weight not heavy enough. I will experiment later as I have made enough on the short original for Irene. GEOFF
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: hammer on June 28, 2017, 06:35:30 PM
Not a lot to show other things are getting in the way. But I have sorted the control lines ready to connect to the sails. Will have to reduce the length of arms on the rudder, more movement required.
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: hammer on June 29, 2017, 10:21:07 PM
All the fore sails connected up & operational. The three jibs, when the starboard side lines are at there shortest, as in photo above. The clew is just pulled over the lower shroud, as the sail moves over the line increases in length allowing sail to brail out further. The say sail is pulled to the centre line, with the same results. Port side works the same obviously.  This is the first time I have used this method. Only having a single line on previous models.   
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: hammer on June 30, 2017, 02:49:38 PM
Ships boat finished & mounted on its skids. Oars carved from coffee stirring sticks. Rowlocks copper wire soldered together.
Two more sails to set. Stitching to boom & gaff by just poking a needle through the cloth, the thin coating of PVA applied when making them, holds the holes open.
Hopefully sea trials next week, if I get more time than I have had this.
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: hammer on July 03, 2017, 05:25:01 PM
The observant among you will notice I have used two different methods to lace on the sails. No particular reason, I do prefer the method shown on the stay sail boom, as the sail can be tensioned as you move along. However it didn't look right with the wooden jack stay on the main boom.
A couple of tips, I expect you all know but may be one person doesn't. The cord is to thick to go through the eye of a needle, supper glue on the end of the cord slice to a point with a scalpel, use cord as a needle. I needed to drill holes deep inside the hull, epoxy a drill into a tube, job done.
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: hammer on July 04, 2017, 05:12:36 PM
Almost ready for launch, need to complete the shrouds first. If you can remember I rested Irene upside down between two benches so I could paint bottom of hull. Unfortunately she self righted rolled off,  snapped the mizzen mast. The repair has withstood me working on it, but sailing with out shrouds??? :o.
All sails in place, just research the correct belaying points. Made a mistake with the mizzen top gaff sail didn't fit well. Cut off the bolt rope on the luff, moved it over glued it over new position. Glue spread on the outside of rope & just under. Dried with wife's hairdryer (couldn't wait) then cut off the excess. The cloth lines are wrong so will make a new one later.
No more shop this week have to play bowls.
I have noticed about 80 of you are looking in a day. but no one is saying any thing.  :kiss: :kiss:
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: david48 on July 05, 2017, 12:29:20 AM

It is probably that no input has been posted , is the fact that you are making a very good job and we are all admiring the work ,and can not find anything to nit pick . You are on top of the  build .
David
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: Tug-Kenny on July 05, 2017, 11:35:18 AM

I love to read each update, and am following your  'build'  with interest.  I rather fancy building one of these  (if I can find the time) as it reminds me of my yachting days sailing the Bristol channel.

Just remember that  'no news is good news'.  You're doing a splendid job and I look forward to seeing her on the water. I hope I'm not  'nit picking' when I notice your photograph numbering system is duplicating itself.  %)   oh er, that's torn it.

Well done on your build.

cheers

ken
 
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: derekwarner on July 05, 2017, 12:02:53 PM
RGY......on page 1 of this thread .....I suggested we were watching %)....so be sure this never changes my friend

Derek
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: hammer on July 06, 2017, 08:24:23 AM
Thanks for the posts boys, cheered me up on end. Tug Kenny, that's looking. But I can explain, I but the photos in the computer & delete them from the camera. The camera then repeats the number.
I was getting a bit worried I thought I had upset you Derek. I know you can vouch for the fact my photography has improved 100%.
Off bowling now.
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: Tug-Kenny on July 06, 2017, 10:31:50 AM

I tend to load my camera pictures into a file on the computer and re-size them from megabytes down to 100K.  The new images are then stored under that boat's name in a new file with alphabetic names.

ie,  Model boat 'Titanic'  1,  then 2  etc.

Hope this helps.  (and save AGRO from these external holding sites)     %)

Once again, well done with your build.

ken
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: derekwarner on July 06, 2017, 10:44:08 PM
 :o ....'I thought I had upset you Derek' ...wot me?...in OZ with the blazon sun beating down every day  {-)...we develop our backs and shoulders to be as tough as Crockadiles skin 

No...I know a little about some things ....and not a lot about others.....'mizzens, shackles, fathoms, yards etc' so I am just keeping my mouth shut lest my foot slips O0

Derek
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: hammer on July 07, 2017, 10:15:32 AM
Kenny, after I have posted construction photos I delete them. No interest to me but if I need them I can down load from here.
Derek we have the sun at present 31 degree in Teignmouth yesterday.
A lot has happened to family. Son went Aezberg Rodeo Austria, (have a look youtube) racing his motor bike, fell off broken collar bone so no racing.  My wife (cook, cleaner, gardener, shopper & carer) had a big operation. So no bowls, all those jobs down to me & I have to wear a nurse uniform. The good news if she goes to sleep I may get into work shop.
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: hammer on July 07, 2017, 05:28:33 PM
The boss slept most of the day so I went in shop. I will know when she is better, will get a lot of orders.
Started on the shrouds using builders line, some I had over from work 20 years ago, nice and supple.  Blackened with marker pen. Cut a slot in the felt pad, stretch the line rub up & down till black. As it weathers it turns the 51st shade of grey, looks effective. In the past I have twisted the line applied super glue, to represent a splice. Hit on a far better idea heat shrink, its a better representation as the splice would be wormed & served. (look it up Derek ). Both method seen in photo shrouds top. Thanks Kenny your idea good one. Fixing the dead eyes to the shrouds. Cut short lengths of tube brass or aluminium needs to be a tight fit on double shroud. So tight that it has to be pulled through. Thread tubes on wire, loop shroud & pull, photos start & pull.  I use a bent piano wire to give a constant distance for the lanyard, Crimp the tubes gently. Move piano wire to next. Only did the fore most on the mizzen trouble seen in wrong 1. Will have to remove sail shorten boom & replace fittings. Wrong 2 is not so bad in fact its good, Top sail gaff clue pulley on the wrong side of gaff. I have added another in correct place, will use the original for the ensign.
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: derekwarner on July 07, 2017, 10:55:11 PM
That's a pretty good looking set of threads there RGY O0....ever considered getting a job as a ships Rigger? <*<.....Derek

PS...

Assumed the worming had nothing to do with worms in oatmeal so have just found the following......I found this short documentary one of the better & is self explanatory...... thankyou  :P

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nGP-ek3CLU8
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: hammer on July 10, 2017, 02:45:09 PM
Yes good video Derek, no rigging retired 20years. No workshop to speak of ether, boss getting better, no sneaking off duty now.   
Just a few things done earlier.   Top mast stay, spreader fitting.  Top mast purchase & vang deadeye with lashings painted (brass tube). Starboard vang 1 deadeye, Vang 2 portside deadeye. In the back ground is the ships boat gripes, brown sheering elastic. Holding the hatch cover in place. I had to fix the vang deadeyes as the forestays were sagging with weight of sails. Although the mast is fixed to keel & deck still a little movement.   
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: ballastanksian on July 10, 2017, 08:56:01 PM
She looks lovely. Your idea to use heat shrink is canny. I might get some for when I have to do some rigging on warships.

Keep up the good works (Nursing and building).
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: hammer on July 11, 2017, 04:32:03 PM
Thanks for the encouragement Crewkerne, gardening, cooking & cleaning.
Had a problem for some time, but cracked it now. I like to build as detailed as possible, still keeping a practical sail boat. My previous models have been larger than Irene. I was able to belay all the ropes properly coiled & looped. A lot of the ropes have a purchase at the bottom as well as multiple pulleys at the top. The answer a dummy block, rope comes down in top, out the side back in the same side, down to belay, back fix into side. Now it can be lengthened to reef the sail with out undoing. The dummy pin is a loop of wire pushed up through the rail, then doubled over so it can't come out.  A short end of rope is coiled & hooked over the top of the wire, disguising the wire. The top sails are no trouble all there lines belay on the mast. I can get at them removing the lot, sail & all. The jibs will fold down on to the bowsprit. When the lines are fixed I can complete the shrouds. Then test sail. Details will be added afterwards. Not that anchors, cat head & rat lines are details. 
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: hammer on July 12, 2017, 03:20:06 PM
Baggie rankles on the toping lift. Pipe cleaners, Half inch from the end burn off the fluff, untwist the wire & thread into the end of the cord, apply super glue. Paint a dirty brown. repeat on other end. 
Switches installed in the hatch, wires hooked out of the way of controls. 
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: hammer on July 13, 2017, 05:07:07 PM
How the rope is coiled just around a finger, loop over as shown. Leave a loop to go over pin, I then soak in watered down PVA, mould to shape let dry. If this is not done the rope will spring out & not look natural as it has no weight.The ropes belayed on the mast are just wound around the pins. The weight of the false coil will stop it unwinding. The mizzen mast is complete just the ensign to add after the launch. The smudge of brown on the mast is a spare hoop, for emergences. 
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: Brian60 on July 15, 2017, 09:50:13 AM
I like the baggie's  on the topping lifts, I'll have to remember that tip for my next sailing vessel. Your way of making rope coils is the same as mine, make a loop pass and end through to form a second loop to locate on the pins, then soak in diluted pva.

She's coming on a treat mate, looking forward to it on the water.
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: hammer on July 15, 2017, 02:26:04 PM
Thanks Brian great minds think alike so they say. 
Should be on the water soon, hopefully. After that a lot to complete the model. marking on the hull name, port, depth, and plimsoll line. Anchors ,chains, chain leads, Armstrong patent windlass and cat head. Mooring cleats and fair leads. Chimneys and exhaust pipes.  Life belts made once but lost somewhere in the shop. then there is general detritus like ladder, bucket, planks and rope laying about the deck, which will make the art of a model. See my trawler not documented online, but written up in Model Shipwright No 134.     
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: hammer on July 19, 2017, 04:30:46 PM
Every thing is conspiring against me getting ready to launch at the present. Very little time in the shop. Wife in hospital for tests she is radio-active at present, HELP. Never mind will get there soon.
I have completed all the sail lines, just the main shrouds to do. Using another method for the dummy blocks, simpler to make & can make them smaller. With a strip of wood the size for the blocks. Drill down the centre 1/4 inch, then drill across to connect to the bottom of the hole, & out other side. Cut off the block & round off the corners. Push the rope down the centre hole, with a wire that fills the cross hole push rope out the side. Take rope to belay & back up into the hole where the wire went, & glue, careful not the get glue on rope on other side of hole. Before starting a very small amount of super glue on the rope stops fraying but not to much or it won't bend into the cross hole.   
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: Brian60 on July 21, 2017, 10:23:04 AM
I applaud your stamina for making the blocks, more than I ever bothered to do. I bought ready made ones, either with working brass sheaves or just plain wood. I like to build to scale but for me that was going to far and if they were a little over size or even under size, only I would know! These in the photo were sourced from modellingtimbers.

Hope your wife improves soon mate, but tell her if she wants irradiating, put her head in the microwave instead of the gas oven :D
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: hammer on July 21, 2017, 04:59:16 PM
Thanks Brian, only radio-active for 24 hours, I suspect you know all about bone scans. 
As I have said before I enjoy the research, planning & building more than sailing. So making all I can that's why I avoid buying any thing that I can make myself.
Even making everything except glue, paint & motor ( did make gear box but not gears, could have but had stock) it has only taken me 7 months.  Out of which take 3 weeks holiday, a stay in hospital, nursing wife, bowls Wednesday & no weekend work. Sorry play.  {-) OK still some detail to add.
Rain & gales here & done me favour, had to stay in workshop. Irene is ready for the water just charge the batteries, night before. But with the weather forecast that will be Monday at best. 
The photo shows up the lettering but it is not that bad as the letters are only 2mm high.
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: hammer on July 28, 2017, 04:13:16 PM
The weather has not been good here, well not good enough for a maiden sail.  I removed the speed controller from another model, connected it up to Irene. Switching on nothing, tried the battery, flat, tried another that went flat as well. Found I had a short in the switch, Fitted a new one now have to charge the battery & hope the controller is not damaged.
To cheer my self I made the anchors.  The materials, strip of brass plate, brass rod, brass square & stay off a broken umbrella. Most of the shaping done with a file, plus 4 holes, 2 for the shank 1 for the stock 1 for chain. First I braze the shank to the crown, building up the brazing to thicken the arms & the bottom of the shank. Then silver solder on the top ( less heat ). Finally soft solder in the stock adding a ball of solder on the end. Fix on the chain & spray black, before it dries spray with red oxide from a distance. I will add brown later to create the appearance of rust. 
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: hammer on July 28, 2017, 04:34:30 PM
Parts of an anchor, as in my book. Save you looking it up Derek.
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: derekwarner on July 28, 2017, 10:39:51 PM
Thanks but that's OK...as I knew these  %).......

[although not wood worm, and not fluke worm....but certainly with an e]

So would the original have been iron or steel? [and created by a smithie <*<] or a combination of both?

Now if this is true, which part was steel?

Derek
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: hammer on July 29, 2017, 02:07:12 PM
Derek I know you know, the font of all knowledge. I just had to put your name to get a response, as I know you are still watching. I have said before when I was at school they never had dislecsae or something like that. It was called stupidity & you where put at the back of the class, & forgotten. So thanks to spell checker. I can tell you most old anchors made of wrought iron, in the Black country area of England.  Some recovered are on display in Teignmouth, I will take a photo soon.
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: derekwarner on July 29, 2017, 10:21:16 PM
You must have very smart spell checkers in your neck of the woods if they have eyes to find a glitch .....stupidity ....well my Pa [Grandfather] taught me that stupidity is in the eye of the beholder.....& school.....no we were so poor we couldn't afford to go to school apart from the training in our voyage in the First Fleet from the Thames to Sydney Harbour

That training consisted not of mathematical or scientific lessons, but memorizing every word in the Oxford book of words 1878 version

Obviously the sketcher of your representation of the anchor should have spent more time reading the Oxford than lazing about and drawing 

No need for a photo for my benefit...we have plenty of old wrought iron relics here .....:kiss:.....

Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: hammer on July 31, 2017, 04:41:26 PM
You needn't look if you don't want. But I thought you would know why the metal looks like wood, after being in the sea for about a hundred years. Even I know its corrosion but why the irregular pattern. Ignore the things hanging on the anchor, supposed to be art.  {-)  So as I started at the beginning of this post, why is not model making an art.  :o 
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: derekwarner on August 01, 2017, 02:51:11 AM
I hope not too far off line from Irene........however we have a beautiful pair of Black Smithed [as in forged] 102 year old iron anchors in a small marine park for the Port of Kembla ....

Approximate sizing is Shank  = 12 ft, with the Crown = 6ft

They show the same [however much younger] appearance to that shown by RGY.......

We were taught that these wood like longitudinal corrosion marking is a direct result of the steam powered forged in   <*< fold marks in the iron....all relative to the manual rotation of the iron blank by the Smithies Mate

Today with our technology, forging is a far more scientific process over the older .....just heat & bash approach
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: JimG on August 01, 2017, 12:16:53 PM
From Wikipedia

Quote
Wrought iron is an iron (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron) alloy (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alloy) with a very low carbon (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon) (less than 0.08%) content in contrast to cast iron (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cast_iron) (2.1% to 4%). It is a semi-fused mass of iron with fibrous "xxxxx" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/"xxxxx") inclusions (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inclusion_%28mineral%29) (up to 2% by weight) which gives it a "grain" resembling wood, that is visible when it is etched or bent to the point of failure. Wrought iron is tough, malleable, ductile, corrosion-resistant and easily welded (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welding). Before the development of effective methods of steelmaking (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steelmaking) and the availability of large quantities of steel, wrought iron was the most common form of malleable iron. A wrought product is one that has been mechanically worked by forging, extruding, rolling, hammering, et cetera, to change its form and properties.

This gives it the wood look when rusted as the iron rusts away leaving the "xxxxx" inclusions.It is also why early iron ships such the Great Britain have survived so long through the use of wrought iron plates.

Jim
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: hammer on August 02, 2017, 04:15:53 PM
Thanks Jim, I have heard of XXX, my XXXXX must be strong stuff.
The weather is getting worse, so still unable to get Irene's bottom wet. I may even finish her before is happens. Not all bad as I can spend more time in the workshop. 
Working on the cat heads. Started with 1/4 + 1/8 mild steel. Cut to length & drilled holes, then shaped them with a file. One ready for paint.
Finally some shots of the deck as is.  The chimneys & exhaust ported tomorrow. 
 
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: Brian60 on August 02, 2017, 05:44:29 PM
As she's nearly finished what do you have in mind for the next build? Personally as my current one is dragging on and on and on, I've started work on a simple pond yacht named 'June' (downloaded the plan from someplace) something a kid would be happy to shove around a lake, no r/c just set the sail and let it go.
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: JimG on August 02, 2017, 07:41:08 PM
Thanks Jim, I have heard of XXX, my XXXXX must be strong stuff.


The forum filter doesn't like the word s l a g as produced by the smelting of iron ore.
To keep within the topic , good work here and looking better all the time.

Jim
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: hammer on August 04, 2017, 10:37:48 AM
Brian it is doubtful that I will be permitted to build another large model. The list, a footie, steam collier Crowpill 24", Irene 40", Glen Usk Paddler 60", Albatross sailing trawler 68", Hilda pilot cutter 68", and Duke of Devonshire paddler 72". I do have a Minnie traction engine to go no with. Also in photo is a old R.A.F. fire boat I was given, this would be good on the clubs present pond. Not big enough to be a lake.
  However still a lot of things to sort on Irene, past experience has shown better performance can be obtained without all the jibs set. Then there is all the bits lying about the deck, Shown in this interesting picture.  Including the ugly engine exhaust. The method used to make the tin on the top will be the way I make buckets. 
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: hammer on August 05, 2017, 09:49:36 AM
Seeing battens on the stays instead of ratlines, I thought good. But I found the battens much more trouble than the rope.  I tried tying with cotton, drove me up the wall, kept moving. In the end I held them to the outer stays with modified clothes pegs. Putting a dab of super glue on the centre stays. Finally twisting fuse wire around all & painting black.   
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: hammer on August 06, 2017, 01:31:54 PM
Finally made the water. A few teething troubles as expected. All my own fault, first I left the hatch at home! Next the motor battery failed to hold its charge (charged on Tuesday night). Sailing with out the hatch, afraid to go out to far, after a gust heeled her well over(chicken). The mizzen top sail taken off as the halyard knot came undone. Not so noticeable from the picture she is down at the head. A fellow club member loaned me a battery, it was a lot heavier than mine. May have to remove lead from the forward hatch. (new battery)  Better to be higher than lower at the bow. More of a problem, I snapped off a deadeye from a chain plate, Silver soldered, can't soft solder on silver, don't fancy getting it red hot. problem!!
The rudder controlled her well & no water entered, so showing promise.
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: Brian60 on August 07, 2017, 09:33:35 AM
She looks great on the water, a few teething problems are all part of the modelling experience :} think of it as full size shake down runs. 8)
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: hammer on August 07, 2017, 04:59:01 PM
Thanks Brian, as I said all my own fault. It went better than I could wish for.
Sent for a new battery, I should have known better expecting a 40 year old battery to hold a charge. Removed lead from the bow, as the new battery is the same as the one I was loaned. Tied the mizzen top sail back on put super glue on the knot. Repaired the deadeye, made a new chain plate only 3/4" long. Lapped & epoxy onto the original, double thickness but can't  be seen. 
Made & fitted the life bouys  with brackets, stuck to carpet tape so the spray doesn't blow them away.
Cat heads, anchors & chains fitted, a bit difficult to photograph. Put Derek will agree my pictures have improved from the Duke of Devonshire post.   
Looking forward to the next sail now.
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: derekwarner on August 08, 2017, 12:39:01 AM
All just minor commissioning issues  O0 .........RGY back in the August the 4th, we see the ship being loaded with sacks and neatly placed into her hold and up to deck level

Don't quite understand  :o what type product would be loaded as such.....the size of the sacks/bags would suggest a semi finished product, however not Flour nor Cement/Clinker due to moisture, too small for unground grain? and too small for Coal ? and not the right shape/size for Potato sacks?

We also see that cranky cranked  funnel  {-)

Looking forward to her next sailing

Derek

Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: hammer on August 08, 2017, 04:51:08 PM
Derek your guess is as good as mine. If I could recognise the port that might help, but loading or unloading? A port with a crane, in a wide estuary.  In my original copy lettering can be seen on the sacks, but unreadable. Teignmouth still imports animal feed & exports clay, both possibilities. Cement was brought to Bridgwater by ship, as the cement works just 20 miles across the Bristol Channel. Over 200 miles on land, rail (mostly) or road (never then), but always now. It was in hessian sacks weighing 2C.W.T. men where men. Now I don't know the weight but they can be lifted by one hand.   
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: hammer on August 11, 2017, 12:10:39 PM
Fitted the Armstrong patent windlass drive. Made a bucket, turned from 1/2" very old water pipe, not possible with modern paper thin copper pipe. 
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: hammer on September 01, 2017, 03:48:56 PM
Made a 40gal drum, placed on deck, as in unloading photo.
Also made 2 fairleads for the bow rail.  Cut from an old guard from a skill saw. Cut and file the shape, still on the block. Drill the holes, then hold in the vice with the jaws just below the shape required. Rest the hacksaw on the jaws & cut along, job done. Remembering to make a left & right.
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: hammer on September 06, 2017, 11:01:20 AM
One member of the crew is on board, a sleep on the cabin top. The rest will be back from the pub later.
 Properly after I come back from a visit to Chatham historic dockyard.
 P.S. The cat is just a lump of filler.
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: hammer on September 08, 2017, 01:54:50 PM
In the light of experience sailing Irene an alteration. I have removed the hanks from the jibs as it made it difficult to remove them, when the wind demanded it. I have now fitted hooks to the head, clew & tack. Just one hank around the stay where the head, halyard & down haul meet, keeping the sail tight to the stay.
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: hammer on September 15, 2017, 03:57:26 PM
I have found the crew in Chatham, they where in a pound shop. Yes 1 for 12. I don't like spending money but even I couldn't resist a bargain like that. Unfortunately they had signed on to the army.  But after major surgery I think I can rescue two.  The rest will be cut down to fit on my paddle steamer, as passengers, some will have to ware dresses.     
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: hammer on September 21, 2017, 05:01:42 PM
The crew are aboard. The helmsman can just be seen through the screen. I think the captain is wearing his old Army uniform. They must be ready to go as the red duster has been hosted. I just painted this on thin nylon, left over from model aircraft covering.
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: hammer on September 24, 2017, 03:05:57 PM
Irene sank today. Launched with just a small list to starboard suddenly the list increased, the rail level with the water. This brought the hatch combing below water. I could see trouble so bringing her in A.S.P. Got within 3ft of the steps before she went down in 2.5ft. I think the motor battery moved, my own mistake. Retrieving Irene we broke the mizzen mast where I had repaired before. A few deck planks have plimbed up, all the electronics are in the airing cupboard. So in dry dock for at least a fortnight. As I asked in the beginning why is modelling not art. I have come to the conclusion that art is something useless, just something to look at. Well Irene is ART at present.   
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: derekwarner on September 24, 2017, 11:05:51 PM
Goodness RGY...we hope all of the crew are OK  %)......was it the height of the coaming that was the issue, or the hatch itself lift off?

How does one calculate this?.......

By rotating an end elevation view of the hull x the maximum angle of list & then scale up the assumed water line over the deck to the coaming rail?

Would the Fwd hatched 'skylight' have to be considered in the same light if the hull dipped by the bow?...or is this just a 'blocked wooden plate' to elevate your feet prior to accessing the companion way?

Am sure, a few days in dock will see the results of the modifications.......do you allow the crew shore leave during such dockings or are they expected to chip-in & do some extra work?  {-)

Derek
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: hammer on September 25, 2017, 09:03:45 AM
I have sacked the captain, it never happened before he took over. A sail boat should be able to heel right over with no problems. So major redesign required.
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: hammer on September 25, 2017, 04:16:30 PM
Second job after removing all the electrics, remove the heat shrink from the batteries.  Having sunk before (only once ) learnt the hard way moisture inside the heat shrink will rust the connection tabs. Next year no power, and a new battery. Replaced heat shrink with duct tape, having dried over night.
Here is the evidence Derek. Only over at 70deg and the water over the combing. Lucky it hadn't happened before.
Two options increase the height of the combing, not scale. The Irene's load line was only 18ins of freeboard, they must have battened the hatch tight. Or seal the hatch 1/2ins below the top of the combing. Bring the switch wire up through with silicone, stopping ingress. Replace the tube for the carry handle with a larger diameter, and longer, seal again. Also replace lifting rod with a piano wire. Any water getting on the sealing plate can go down the tube, instead of filling the boat. That's the theory, we shall see.   
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: hammer on September 27, 2017, 04:24:35 PM
I have to thank John who sent me a P.M. (very grateful) concerning a deeper keel. Here is what I have, not that deep but hopefully won't get tangled in weed, tree roots and water lilies in our pond. The big thank for John, is tipping the boat over to take a photo, I saw the reason for the sinking. Not noticed under the flat bottom when in the stand!! Wile removing some of the lead to compensate for the heavier battery, I had broken two planks!!
Now repaired with filler on the outside and a patch inside. I will be still altering the main hatch though.
The mizzen mast removed and the bands saved, holding the mast in vice with each band resting on jaws and hitting the top of mast. Joined the old to mark out the new. The shrouds saved as well ready to thread back on. 
The razed deck plank will have to be removed relayed if they don't shrink back, not much hope there.
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: hammer on October 05, 2017, 09:15:19 AM
Taken the electronics out of the airing cupboard, after ten days. All working fine, no damage at all. So called experts have told me not to switch on while still damp. If I did it would be ruined, so to be on the safe side I didn't. But what puzzles me is it had been switched on for fifteen minuets under water with no damage. Any answers.
The new mizzen mast is in, and the deck planks have shrunk back in place.  Should be sailing this Sunday weather permitting. 
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: hammer on November 18, 2017, 08:43:33 AM
Irene on display for the winter, in the bedroom window, privalige. Had three good voyage this season. All sorted, Totnes Castle  is on the slipway now, she will be there some time. Can be seen in work boats above.
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: hammer on January 01, 2018, 12:21:23 PM
The photo of the first sail above shows a full compliment of sails all except mizzen top sail. This photo shows a reduced rig for normal windy day. The mizzen has one roll around the boom, could have a few more as could the main. If it is strong wind.

Being in the bedroom I have looked at the rudder & it has annoyed me. to large a gap around the propeller. Decided to make a new one. While at it I have increased to drop by an inch. This will also help with the stability on rough days.
 
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: hammer on January 05, 2018, 03:10:44 PM
The improved rudder ready for assembly. After the wooden outer's have been epoxied to each side of the frame, sanded & painted. The stock of the frame is inserted into the rudder trunk. Then the sleeve is inserted down the top of the trunk over the stock, The hexagonal section holds it all at the right height. The tiller is threaded into the top of the stock & locked with the lock nut. Drop keel is lowered, rudder drop plate pushed up pipe in frame, the sliding hinge fitted into the hole in the end of keel.   Finally the handle is adjusted to stop the keel from dropping down below the point where the rudder plate would come out.
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: hammer on January 10, 2018, 09:43:22 AM
The reason for he complication, maintenance for prop,& rudder.
Title: Re: The Art of Models Irene
Post by: hammer on January 12, 2018, 03:04:56 PM
There still seems as some confusion still exists. As I have received two P.M. telling me to bolt on a lead keel when sailing. That is why I have the dropping centre plate, made from steel. I did try lead on a previous model but, to low & to heavy, the model bobbed about like a cork. Fine for a racing yacht, with a tall rig, but not a scale boat.
The plate also pulls down the rudder extension, so no bit of plastic bolted on that. If the wind is looks strong enough to push the boat down, I just remove sails. Just as the real thing would do. 
  I hope the pictures make it clear. Handle up plate up & rudder in, handle down, plate down & rudder extended.  The handle also used to carry the boat.
One other alteration I have removed the head sails servo, Now control the stay sail with the main & mizzen. The jibs run free. The original idea of pulling them from side to side is no longer necessary with a motor fitted. Just motor out if caught in irons.