Model Boat Mayhem

The Shipyard ( Dry Dock ): Builds & Questions => Navy - Military - Battleships: => Topic started by: zanussi on August 20, 2007, 05:29:00 pm

Title: Italeri Elco 80' Torpedo Boat PT-596 1:35 - My Build
Post by: zanussi on August 20, 2007, 05:29:00 pm
Well, sigh, here I am selling out. I had been determined my next model would be scratch built, and I would stick to post Washington Treaty British ships for a few years.

Well then Itiliari brought out the ELCO and I just could not help myself. Well it is based on the British Fairmile MTB I suppose, (ducks as the Yanks throw heavy objects) and it is post Washington Treaty, but it is no way scratch built.

As it happens though I had some radio kit kicking around waiting for a stalled project so I decided to have a go at powering the thing up.

The kit is pretty awesome, detail is great and there are some really nice touches in a basic PE set, metal barrels for some of the guns, rigging and netting and so on. Size wise it is the biggest kit I have attempted since Snowberry, which died horribly in the shed when son number one threw a tantrum with the lawn mower, but as he is now off driving tanks around Salisbury Plain I figured it might be safe to try something on this scale again.

Topic name changed..... Admin.

Title: Re: ELCO sell out
Post by: zanussi on August 20, 2007, 05:33:49 pm
I had two 11" shafts, I did want to power the boat up with two motors, but a quick bath test showed I had little margin in weight so I decided on a single shaft and oversized rudder to compensate for the lack of motor assisted turning.
Title: Re: ELCO sell out
Post by: zanussi on August 20, 2007, 05:35:10 pm
An attack with a small pipe cutter and I shortened one shaft and pinched the collets of the other to use in the "P" frames, the Elco does not use A frames.
Title: Re: ELCO sell out
Post by: zanussi on August 20, 2007, 05:36:59 pm
I soldered one of the collets onto the shortened shaft sleeve, the idea being to leave an exposed length of the inner shaft below the waterline, I had no chance of making the power shaft to scale with the others, but I could at least make the effort!
Title: Re: ELCO sell out
Post by: zanussi on August 20, 2007, 05:39:40 pm
I had a rudder to hand, but no sleeve for it, I found a bic pen barrel worked just fine.

The centre shaft exit was expanded brutally and the sleeve fitted and sealed into place with car filler. The rudder servo and loose end of the shaft held in place with hardwood dowel from B&Q araldited to the hull.
Title: Re: ELCO sell out
Post by: zanussi on August 20, 2007, 05:42:28 pm
I chopped the trailing edge of the rudder away, this follows the pattern of the real rudder and gave me clearence for the propellor. the remaining collets I glued onto the model P frames, these may not be tough enough and if so I will replace them with brass sheet, but for now they will do, the rudder may also be cut back more, but not yet, need to see how it handles first.
Title: Re: ELCO sell out
Post by: zanussi on August 20, 2007, 05:45:17 pm
A touch of filler to smooth things along a bit.
Title: Re: ELCO sell out
Post by: zanussi on August 20, 2007, 05:48:14 pm
And add the model shafts and props and very small rudders.
Title: Re: ELCO sell out
Post by: Martin (Admin) on August 20, 2007, 05:52:06 pm
Looking good!  O0
Don't forget to check the propshaft of leaks before your maiden voyage!   
Title: Re: ELCO sell out
Post by: zanussi on August 20, 2007, 05:53:54 pm
A piece of scrap brass from an old clock locked down the shaft, I find old clocks a very useful source for cogs and brass bits and so on. I then found I had mis measured the shafts, had more extending in the boat than I wanted. The obvious answer was to cut down the inner shaft and re-tap, but I seem to have misplaced my tap and die set, it meant the motor had to be mounted higher than I planned, but on the plus side it was forward more, there is little freeboard available at the stern so the more weight forward the better.

Starboard side is the receiver and port the speed controller, rudder linkage is a bit of bent wire, I will probably replace that with a proper linkage the next time I go to the model shop.
Title: Re: ELCO sell out
Post by: zanussi on August 20, 2007, 05:58:13 pm
You got it Admiral! I already sank it on the bath test, water came up the model rudder holes!

Next bit is to secure the receiver power pack down, using double sided tape, the same as the receiver and speed controller, this allows me to resite them later if needed, the switch and recharger cable I am just leaving loose, I hope to merge them with the cockpit controls somehow.

I have no power pack suitable for the small space, so after browsing the internet I have ordered a couple of power packs for paint guns that should fit either side of the motor and allow me enough movement to trim up. Note here the holes in the hull, the model deck screws down which is another really nice touch for the would be power upper!
Title: Re: ELCO sell out
Post by: zanussi on August 20, 2007, 06:04:30 pm
I pre-painted the deck a drab green and screwed it home, then started to fit the base of the cockpit, or bridge, or whatever it is on a small craft! I mentioned nice touches, another is a photo book showing actual ELCO's in history, a photo tour of a preserved boat and plenty of information, I like to know as much as possible about the models I build and this was such a pleasent surprise to get.

I have no intention of trying to match colours and so on, this is duck pond charger, just a bit of fun to take camping with us.

At this point I was ordered to clear the dining table, so that is all for now.

Happy modelling all.
Title: Re: ELCO sell out
Post by: J.beazley on August 20, 2007, 06:23:03 pm
I saw one of these at basingstoke lake last weekend running on M2 shafts with a pair of motors from a scalectrix car all run off a ACTion ESC.
She went along very nicely on 8.4 volts and could almost keep up with my Schutze on 6 volts.

looks like your doing very well with your build keep it up.

Jay
Title: Re: ELCO sell out
Post by: Ian Robins on August 20, 2007, 09:45:54 pm
Hi,
Not picking fault as the model looks brilliant, but the reciever looks like a 35mhz one.
Continue with the build and maybe you will be at the Mayhem weekend next year if Martin has one
ro88o
Title: Re: ELCO sell out
Post by: zanussi on August 21, 2007, 03:45:19 pm
I saw one of these at basingstoke lake last weekend running on M2 shafts with a pair of motors from a scalectrix car all run off a ACTion ESC.
She went along very nicely on 8.4 volts and could almost keep up with my Schutze on 6 volts.

looks like your doing very well with your build keep it up.

Jay

I am using a Combi Drill motor rated 6-9 volt and the battery packs I have ordered are 8.4V, if she can take the weight I will run two in parallel. 2mm shafts and smaller motors would have been neater, but I was constrained by what I had to hand, the wife was less than amused at what I had already spent on the kit!

Thanks for the input.
Title: Re: ELCO sell out
Post by: zanussi on August 21, 2007, 05:07:54 pm
Hi,
Not picking fault as the model looks brilliant, but the reciever looks like a 35mhz one.
Continue with the build and maybe you will be at the Mayhem weekend next year if Martin has one
ro88o

It is 40Mhz, but showing my ignorance would 35Mhz be a problem? I admit the last time I bought a radio control unit before this it was 27Mhz and you had to watch out for peskie CBers with illegal US rigs. I would like to make next year, was working this time, and with any luck I will have ELCOs big British Brother ready by then too, a Fairmile D scratch built in 1/24, still working on the hull at the moment.
Title: Re: ELCO sell out
Post by: Ian Robins on August 21, 2007, 05:31:15 pm
Hi,
Just asking re the reciever as all my 40mhz recievers have black ariel wires and 35mhz have orange ariel wires.
As for the frequency 27mhz and 40mhz is for ground based models and 35mhz is for airbourne based models. If you have insurance and you use the wrong freqency then you could have problems if you needed to claim.

ro88o
Title: Re: ELCO sell out
Post by: Colin Bishop on August 21, 2007, 06:03:48 pm
It's a bit more than just insurance! Use of 35mhz in boats or surface models is illegal as it is reserved for model aircraft only. As you can imagine, use of the aircraft frequencies has to be organised carefully as the consequences of a crash caused by somebody else broadcasting on the same frequency can be very serious. There have been fatalities and injuries caused by crashing model planes in the past. At best you will not be permitted to run your model at any organised model boating event with a 35mhz setup and at worst you could cause a nasty accident and leave yourself personally liable to damages.
Title: Re: ELCO sell out
Post by: zanussi on August 21, 2007, 10:16:38 pm
Thanks, I did not know that, I will pull the radio model and check it but the shop I bought it from told me it was 40Mhz and suitable for boats, but never mentioned there was a legal requirement! Well well, we live and sometimes learn! Handy things these forums. I am guessing then I am looking at some impressive expense to correct it? Not just a Xtal swap. Sigh.

Well, wrong radio gear aside I fitted the skylights and photo etch covers, I left them brass as I think it looks pretty cool, in defence I was reading in "Roll on the Rodney" how one of the first actions on RN ships post war was to clean all the paint off the brass work, I will break some other paint rules later, like the mufflers (silencers to us Brits) are shown nicely painted, but in practise I reckon the heat would burn off the paint and leave them as galvanised steel, (stainless not likely is it?).

Other work is starting on the cockpit, some nice detail including decal controls with transparent covers, but first a light grey coat, I have served briefly on a couple of US destroyers in NATO and recall the light flat grey which abounded all interior areas, I don't suppose the coastal craft would have been much different. If it moves, salute it, if it does not, paint it grey.

Quick warning to anyone planning on building this: just because the holes are cut for the skylights does not mean they will be used! I ended up short on glazing and had to slice up some of my own from the waste transparency after glazing holes that will be covered by guns later. Morale: RTFM! Each skylight is held with a spot of superglue, enough sqeezed up from the edge of the "glass" so that the photo etch applied at once was secured in place using the waste in all but one case which resulted in a good old carpet hunt, assisted by the dog.
Title: Re: ELCO sell out
Post by: Colin Bishop on August 21, 2007, 10:46:38 pm
If the shop you bought it from told you it was 40mhz and it isn't they should have known better and you are entitled to get it changed or a refund. Take it back! Not your fault you didn't know the rules - they should have told you.  Anyway, you know them now! :)
Title: Re: ELCO sell out
Post by: madrob on August 21, 2007, 11:41:43 pm
Great to see your build zanussi, hope to pop over and see it in the flesh one day
Title: Re: ELCO sell out
Post by: zanussi on August 24, 2007, 01:15:59 pm
Hey Rob, welcome anytime! you could always assist me in clearing the shed of all the cheap wine and beer we brought back from France, and you could cast your experienced eye over Lynn's new pride and joy, could use some advice on the doors (don't worry, will not hijack you from your own restorations!)

Been working late this week every night, but I reckon I can get the ELCO into water this weekend for engine trials, so thinking caps on again, don't want to risk that pond they built over the old pit head down by Sash, read too many Stephen King books, no telling what is lurking in the deep shafts below!! Need a nice friendly bit of water so I can wade or swim out if it gets into trouble without some slimey creepy grabbing me!
Title: Re: ELCO sell out
Post by: zanussi on August 27, 2007, 04:08:56 pm
Ok, cool busy weekend but got some work done that mattered as well as the domestic stuff. Nice to see you again Rob!

Okay, the battery packs for the paint guns took me by surprise, a lot smaller than I expected, it remains to see if they give me the required endurance. Lacking a switch to isolate them I jury rigged breakers with spade connectors for bath trials, seen here.
Title: Re: ELCO sell out
Post by: zanussi on August 27, 2007, 04:12:11 pm
With the deck in place I led out the cable that will need to be within reach, stern first they are: receiver charger, receiver isolator switch, main battery charger and two pairs that are the battery isolaters, the risk of shorting worried me so after this shot I made one of the isolators and insulated it, leaving only a single wire isolator for now.

BTW, I checked the specs, my transmitter is good for a huge range of frequencies, up to 75 MHZ, but the reciever is indeed locked to the 35 MHZ range, I will have to change it.

Title: Re: ELCO sell out
Post by: zanussi on August 27, 2007, 04:17:00 pm
Bath trial, not easy to see I know, but on the whole I was pleased, the stern rode high and the bow not bad at all, I did decide to trim the batteries further aft but she seemed to ride at the required waterline pretty well. I powered her up and there was a comfortable "shove" from the props and a very handsome wake churned up, she will not win races, but she will chase ducks nicely. A couple of problems showed though: a leak at speed, could not see where, and reverse was catastrophic, the motor went to full power at once and dis-assembled the prop and shaft, yike, not sure what is up there, I am guessing the speed controller.

Repeating the test with the deck off showed the leak was from the holes for the model shafts were not being plugged properly by the shaft ends, soon sorted, my own drive shaft, lubricated with vaseline, shed not a drop.
Title: Re: ELCO sell out
Post by: zanussi on August 27, 2007, 04:19:03 pm
I had hoped to move on to a pond now, but the poor fit of deck to hull persuaded me not to, I will gasket seal the deck down and screw before I put her on real water, need some gasket seal first. So back to the workbench to start on the deck houses, first the Bridge with some nice Photo Etch.
Title: Re: ELCO sell out
Post by: zanussi on August 27, 2007, 04:21:38 pm
The deck houses come in three removable sections, the base parts are seen here, essentially Bridge, Accomodation and Engine venitillation. It soon became apparent that the centre section would be the easiest to give access to the most commonly needed isolators.
Title: Re: ELCO sell out
Post by: zanussi on August 27, 2007, 04:35:33 pm
With the centre accomodation section removed there is loads of room for charges and isolators, need to tidy them up though. You can see in this shot how I have moved the red motor battery packs further aft. I also checked the stability in the bath, she bounces back nicely, I had been worried the motor was too high for stability.

Oh, don't bother getting on at me about the camoflage, I have spent too many years chipping and painting real ships to get over-excited on that score, at the end of the day Admiralty paint schemes (and presumably the USN equivilent) are guide lines, what actually goes on the vessle depends on availability of paint and the wants of the Skipper! In the case of the Elco it appears they were camoflaged to allow them to lurk close inshore of Pacific islands, or even under jungle overhang, during the day, and they go hunting at night. My boat will be painted with that in mind and based on what I happen to have in the paint box, this boat is for me to learn about making one go, not the minutia of paint.

After this I went on to fit the hull chines and paint below the waterline, then put it aside to take advantage of the great weather to work on the fibre glass hull of her big brother: Dog Boat.
Title: Re: ELCO sell out
Post by: madrob on August 27, 2007, 10:47:53 pm
Its moved on a fair bit from when i was there saturday....soon be chasing ducks.

sent you a link, about fiberglassing
Title: Re: ELCO sell out
Post by: zanussi on August 28, 2007, 08:16:59 am
Got it thanks Rob. Yes those cheeky ducks better watch out, Elco will be unarmed, but Dog will carry either a water cannon or a BB gun, been looking at the arsenal Lynn confiscated off the kids recently after catching them sniping out the bedroom windows, there is a compressed air pistol that looks particularly suitable for conversion!
Title: Re: ELCO sell out
Post by: rem2007 on November 27, 2007, 02:34:48 pm
was surfing and found this today, just fyi




PT-596 - 80' Elco Boat in Spectacular Detail 1/35th scale



Kit # PT121 $150.00 our price $125.00

 Italeri’s PT-596 Torpedo Boat is a huge model.
At 1/35 scale, the hull length is 27.55”.
The tooling to create the hull is the largest single
part ever made by Italeri, weighing a massive 748 lbs. Italeri’s skilled designers, historians and craftsmen pulled out all the stops. This gorgeous, first ever kit of
this type from Italeri contains 322 parts molded in olive green plastic, plus
one clear acetate sheet for the windows, one photoetched fret containing 86
parts for torpedo fins, rocket launchers sides, 37 MM. gun ammo conveyor, gunsights, main mast aerials, instruments panel, deck lights, and seven screws.
The one piece hull and single piece deck are wonderfully detailed, as are
the on-board twin 0.50 Cal. machine guns positions. Finely engraved
Mk.13 torpedoes with side impulse launchers, containing 17 parts for each
unit add to the spectacular realism, along with the detailed exhaust with
silencers and rear smoke generator.

There’s more. Highly detailed 20 MM. Oerlikon and 37MM. M4 guns
(the M-4’s adapted from the P-39 aircraft) add to the armaments,
with two fearsome, front multiple rocket launchers and reserve
 weapons boxes on the deck.
The propellers are accurately shaped, as expected in a model of this quality
and precision. The meticulous in-depth exactness doesn’t stop here;
A 40 MM. dual role Bofors gun, (a kit within a kit, containing more than 50
parts is included too). Italeri has given the model builder a choice of open or
closed positions for the various escape and entrance doors on the deck.
The decal set is for the PT-596 that was in service in the very last days of WWII.
There’s even a reference manual included with the history and actual photos of the
full size boat. This magnificent model exemplifies Italeri’s “Culture of Modeling”.
 
 

Now Skipper you have your boat were is your crew?



This kit  will crew out 6 for your PT-Boat.
kit 0408 - 9.95



 

 

hope you find it interesting,
loads of stuff on this site as well.
robert
Title: Re: ELCO sell out
Post by: rem2007 on November 27, 2007, 02:38:25 pm
sorry meant to put link there, will post later
robert


http://www.totalnavy.com/35pt596.htm (http://) Also http://www.cybermodeler.com/hobby/builds/it/build_it_5602.shtml (http://www.cybermodeler.com/hobby/builds/it/build_it_5602.shtml)

Martin  O0

Title: Re: ELCO sell out
Post by: rem2007 on November 27, 2007, 05:03:47 pm
oh, thanks martin, had to go run some errands, thats the one.
by the way saw you at Warwick, when we were sitting upstairs having a tea and then didn't see you again. hello anyway.
robert O0
Title: Re: ELCO sell out
Post by: Martin (Admin) on November 27, 2007, 05:43:18 pm

( Re: Warwick. Good move!....... Don't disturb animals when they're feeding! ) {-)
Title: Re: ELCO sell out
Post by: elmo on November 27, 2007, 09:47:04 pm
sorry meant to put link there, will post later
robert
http://www.totalnavy.com/35pt596.htm (http://) Also http://www.cybermodeler.com/hobby/builds/it/build_it_5602.shtml (http://www.cybermodeler.com/hobby/builds/it/build_it_5602.shtml)

Martin  O0


Robert, sorry, but that first link doesn't work for me...?

Plus, have you more detailed info on those crew figures you suggest for the excellent Elco kit?

Much obliged to you - in anticipation.
Title: Re: ELCO sell out
Post by: rem2007 on November 27, 2007, 10:05:50 pm
hi elmo,
thats the only way I know to get there, or just do totalnavy.com
sorry mate
robert
Title: Re: ELCO sell out
Post by: Martin (Admin) on November 28, 2007, 01:14:03 am
Try this.... - http://www.totalnavy.com/35pt596.htm
Title: Re: ELCO sell out
Post by: elmo on November 28, 2007, 07:02:53 am
Try this.... - http://www.totalnavy.com/35pt596.htm

OK thanks, got there this time - Trumpeter crew, been chasing some figures but weren't aware of these - they look just great.  O0

I got my Elco from Relish Models (Internet Model shop) for about £50 then added the Eduard photo-etch detail set to it - tons of brass etch now! http://www.relishmodels.co.uk

I'll need some small motors if I'm going to have three live props, but I think its already been said, have to be careful with the weight in this hull - anyone have any feedback on these : http://www.ewinson.com/rf300ch.htm

Cheers for the assistance.
Title: Re: Italeri Elco 80' Torpedo Boat PT-596 1:35 - My Build
Post by: rem2007 on November 28, 2007, 12:02:36 pm
hi elmo
you might want to give dave at action a call. he has a very good light weight 3 motor set-up that would be perfect for this kt. I saw it at the Modelboat show in Warwick. You can't go wrong and it will let thi kit run well in the water. I was wondering why yo only went with one prop to begin with.
 Glad you found the link. If you like the Elco , take a look at th PRB-MK II on that link, a Vietnam era patrol boat, the kit is plastic from Tamiya, but with some plastic magic and the right propulsion it would fly. Deans does a kit of her withthe jet propulsion at apparently its a rocket outof the pocket.
cheers robert