Model Boat Mayhem
Technical, Techniques, Hints, and Tips => Engineering Techniques and Materials. => Topic started by: jumpin_jack on August 23, 2007, 06:08:09 pm
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I am just about to embark on a 1/96 semi kit, and I am wondering when building the superstructure,which is the best thickness of plasicard to use? I have used 0.5, 1mm and 1.5 mm in the past but i think that using the thicker grades tends to make the model very heavy and unstable.
What does everybody else use? I look forward to hearing from you all.
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I have been playing with this stuff for a few tears I started of using it to cover light ply as it paints well and is very very light but am about to re build a superstructure in it using 1/8 x 1/8 plastic or wood strip for give a bigger area gluing corner joint. the thing about it is that it will not distort when its in the sun or gets warm but will bend when req in fact the thin stuff can be rolled to make funnels and the thiner sheets arrive in a tube it takes paint very well and as the sides of some of the new type of boats have flat panels it will never sag with age you could always use it as well as plsarcard on the higher structures to keep the weight down but its worth a look at one other thing is that because of the thickness it looks scale I use the glue that recommend but have tried super glue and that works well peter,
http://www.mickreevesmodels.co.uk/ look for Pro skin its at the bottom of accessories
Pro skin on right the other is 1mm plasticard
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:)
Hi Guys Check out Mayhem for aircraft carrier Gambier Bay. Most of the plastic card used on this model is 1mm with 1/8 sq plastic in areas that need extra gluing surfaces. Most important I found was the correct glue to use. The stuff that comes in a brown bottle I found to be very strong and too much tends to distort the plastic after a while. I now use liquid poly from Humbrol, a little bit slower drying but no problems with distortion. The carrier that I am building at present is 64" in length, 13" across the flight deck and 18" from keel to the top of the mast - a lot of plastic card used.
Hope this help
Stan :)
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I am just about to embark on a 1/96 semi kit, and I am wondering when building the superstructure,which is the best thickness of plasicard to use? I have used 0.5, 1mm and 1.5 mm in the past but i think that using the thicker grades tends to make the model very heavy and unstable.
What does everybody else use? I look forward to hearing from you all.
I would use a combination of thicknesses. Load bearing areas of the model such as decking and bulkheads you might want to make with 1.0 or 1.5mm card but non load bearing members such as superstructure you might want to make from 0.5mm.
As always there are no hard and fast rules but I would not get trapped into thinking that a certain model must be made from a certain thickness. Use what you think is the most appropriate for the situation and don't forget tnhat thinner card can be supported by stiffeners and frames to keep weight down which could then be made from plastic extrusions so it would glue easily and form a very light yet strong structure.
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On a 21, I use 40 thou(1mm) base and 30 (.75mm) Thou structure sides and decks above 01 deck all skeletoned with Evergreen strip of different sizes. I'll send you a building guide.
Paul... ;)
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Thanks Paul,
That would be a great help.
Phil
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I am just about to embark on a 1/96 semi kit,
What ship are you building Jack
Holmsey
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One of our 21's Dave, he won it half price last weekend. ;D
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Holmsey,
Thought i'd have a go at a 21 after Cardiff. I must admit i've been admiring your model of the Winston chuchill for a while now. So Im now going to get back into locking myself away in the shed. O0
Phil
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I must confess, Im not a great lover of Plasticard, Ive never been able to work purely with it. What I normally do is build a Superstructure, say, a bridge out of 1/64 plywood or balsawood - correct the mis-shapes etc., in the ply, fill it, and then cover it using 0.5mm Plasticard. I find this a lot easier to do and I manage to get a reasonable result with it. I normally stick the Plasticard on with Superglue. I do envy these people who can build complete models out of Plasticard. Ive seen some beautiful models made with the stuff and Ive also seen many modellers make it look so easy to use - when Ive tried, copy everything they have done - I either put too much glue on, cut it wrong...or just make a pure mess of it.
aye
john e
bluebird
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Must agree with you there John. I don't usually build in plasticard but on the Deans Medea I'm building as q quickie (ha ha!) I keep wanting to substitute thin ply for the plastic. Much easier to work and takes just as good a finish with a bit of sealer on it first. In fact I've substituted a ply deck for the plastic one which only weighs half as much. The 0.5mm ply also makes a great bulwark liner in place of using filler.
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I have trouble with plasticard too, i make a template out of thick card to get the shapes right then transfer them to plasticard, trouble is the card often looks better than the placticard one, think i might try bluebirds idea, balsa skinned with thin placticard
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I too can find plasicard difficult especially those difficult to cut small shapes, I think I'm going to have to top up on the filler before I attempt the type 21.
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Look like I'll have to start a training course eh? O0
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A master class in Plasticard? Oh yes please Paul!
BTW: I have a great plasticard RTTL kit donated by ModelSlipway!
I'll put it up for free as long as you agree to take pictures and do the build here on Mayhem. Contact me by PM with a picture of one of your recent builds..... "Anda I makea you han offera you canna refuse!" (In my worst God father accent!)
(http://www.modelslipway.com/Vosper%20RTTL/RTTL.jpg)
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Some useful info here...
http://www.stationroadbaseboards.co.uk/faq-plasticard.htm
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I'll have to let this one go Martin. I'm still practicing .... :)
Thanks for the info, Funtimefrankie. Very interesting.
Cheers...Ken
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I must confess, Im not a great lover of Plasticard, Ive never been able to work purely with it. What I normally do is build a Superstructure, say, a bridge out of 1/64 plywood or balsawood - correct the mis-shapes etc., in the ply, fill it, and then cover it using 0.5mm Plasticard. I find this a lot easier to do and I manage to get a reasonable result with it. I normally stick the Plasticard on with Superglue. I do envy these people who can build complete models out of Plasticard. Ive seen some beautiful models made with the stuff and Ive also seen many modellers make it look so easy to use - when Ive tried, copy everything they have done - I either put too much glue on, cut it wrong...or just make a pure mess of it.
aye
john e
bluebird
I know I keep banging on about it....but please try a good quality double-sided tape. Not normally thought of as a modelling material, but if the technology is there then why not use it?
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Have to agree with Bryan on that suggestion and the best d/sided tape I have found at the moment is called "refix" tape . It used in the car trade for fitting badges/ mouldings and the like so you just know it will stand up to the abuse.
You can get it from any good motor factors like "Brown brothers " I dont think places like Halfords stock it but I may be wrong there O0
Good call Bryan :)
Shane
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Hi All,
If you want some inspiration in building in Plasticard - have a look at this picture and then the link - this model was built purely from Plasticard. I built the same model using the original drawings from Vosper, I made the model out of timber. I can tell you the hull has some very complex and complicated shapes in it and for someone to be able to reproduce these shapes from Plasticard must be one amazing modeller. It just shows what can be done if you really try.
www.pdbowker55.freeserve.co.uk/HSL2564.htm
aye
john e
bluebird
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This model looks a lot better in the flesh than the pics and it is double diagonally planked like the real thing, in plasticard and it goes just like the real thing, the builder is a friend of mine and as you quite rightly said he is a good builder.
I model stuff entirely from plasticard and don't have any probs either despite what shapes you need to create.
If you wish to stick plasticard to wood why not try impact adhesive, yep the Evo Stick stuff lightly applied to both parts then place it on and it will never come off just ensure YOU HAVE PLENTY OF VENTILATION or you might just fall over ;D ;D
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Hows about this for complex shapes in plasticard :) :)
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It's very good but I still have a nagging feeling about the longevity of plasticard. OK in the short to medium term but I reckon your work of art will just disintegrate over the longer timescale as the material is basically unstable, being derived from petrochemicals.
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Hi all,
I agree with Colin there mind, I very much doubt the lifespan of Plasticard. I know they are upgrading Plasticard and improving it, but, still the bits that I have managed to glue on previous now older models, I have found very brittle e.g. I built the Bostom Blenheim about 12-15 years ago and the bullwarks on the side were made out of Plasticard and now if I bump the model it cracks, not where the joints are glued, but, 1/8 to 1/4 inch from the joints.
Aye, I still prefer to build in wood.
aye
john e
bluebird
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If you go to the British Museum you will see model boats built in wood by the ancient Egyptians thousands of years ago. You can't beat natural materials! Plasticard is a nice material in many ways but, like John, give me wood every time for building satisfaction.
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12 to 15 yrs ??? ye gods and little fishes, by then we will probably be building things in a replicator housed next to a computer aided design suit built into a matchbox that we keep in our pocket,,,12 to 15 yrs !!!! ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Ya need to build in a skeleton like I do, my oldest one is over 20 years old and still going strong, once painted it protects the Styrene from UV, this causes it to break down, the other thing with it is, the type of paint used. Modelling paint such as Humbroll or Revell types are ok, but, not these types of stuff for cars, NO, not good for it at all. Acrylics are fine also, the other thing is don't expose it to rapid temperature changes, or leave it in the back of the car on a hot sunny day. Its a case of knowing the nature of the beast, I've been building with styrene for over 30 years and never had this cracking problem as such, I have had curves split occasionally, but, the answer to that is to heat the styrene as you are building it to do a curve and not do it cold. If anyone wants any help with this stuff I am here. There are do's and dont's as there is with everything.
Paul ;D...
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;D Aye, the good old days we used to bash people over the head and drag them back to the cave too ! ::) ::)
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I'm in the mood for bashing heads tonight, got some new neighbours who let their kids run riot knocking on doors and scratching cars for fun, this is war here! :o ;)
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Aye, 15 years ago, when I was building the Boston Blenheim, there was a bearded caveman trying to bash some sense into a man from Rushton diesel engine Company with a rather large spanner, as I can remember - and there was no sign of any Plasticard there ;D
Now I know where all the emergency exit signs went from that ship - the first Plasticard Paul got his hands on ;D aye remember that day Paul
aye
John E
Bluebird
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Thats, Ruston John, not Rushton, silly blighter tried to set the timing the same as for a generator from new spec and not a propulsion engine from used spec, silly twit! ;D
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Hi Bluebird. The answer is that I am not an amazing modeller, with regard to my plasticard model of 2564. I only did it to see if it could be done. I used John Prichards plans MM1335. Using 2mm card for the frames and stringers, 1mm for the deck and superstructure, with some 0.5 mm thrown in for good measure, the planking was done in 0.5mm plasticard, but double diagonal planked just like the original boats during WW2. Midships and the stern can be done in quite wide pieces with a cut at 45 degrees to the keel, and the outer sheet scribed with a point scriber to simulate the planking every 1/4 inch or 6 inch on the real thing. the bow shape and underside in order to maintain the double curvature I used 1/4 inch wide strips working from the chine line to the keel and the deck. I always build my hull inverted and to allow for the shear of the deck line work to a datum parallel to the waterline, the datum being high enough to get spring clamps under when you reach the top of the deck. Don't forget to cut the frames sligthly smaller than the plan drawing to allow for the thickness of the planking, and extend them to the datum line I screwed 8mm squre timber to the extension pieces and screwed them vertically to the building board. The stringers help with giving something to stick the planking to.
Please be aware that Plasweld liquid should only be used in a very well ventilated area, that is windows open and a fan blowing the fumes away from you. liquid poly is not as mind numbing!!! but still needs plenty of ventilation.
PHILL BOWKER (ALIAS SHOSEIMARU)
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PHILL (ALIAS SHOSEIMARU) Hi there,
First of all, Welcome to the Forum and I hope you enjoy it - you will get some good laughs on here O0
Thank you for your response. It is funny how I should find you now - because whilst I was building my version of the 2564 I tried to find out who actually built the model and try to contact you. I drew a blank on that UNTIL NOW :) I hope you will stay around on this forum, because we need people like your goodself to show us (those that cannot/struggle with the use of Plasticard).
I, myself, am one of those people who are very limited to how I can use the material Plasticard. I tend to make the item from solid timber (i.e. balsa wood) and cover them with the material Plasticard. i.e. ammo boxes, small deckhouse structures, square vents and soforth. Yet I know these could be made without the aid of a substructure, but, everytime I have tried, I have just ended up with a mess >:( that is why I say, when I look at the likes of what you can do, and others, just makes me sit back and wonder what am I doing wrong. Lack of patience...I dont know. Personally, though, one of the things I think it boils down too is, if you are happy using any material like Colin Bishop and myself are quite happy and confident to build in timber and it comes natural to us...so working in Plasticard must come naturally to you and others.
Anyway, for those of you who are interested Ive included 2 photographs of the 2564 vessel that I built from timber.
Sadly, to say, the only thing that is made from Plasticard on this model are the perspex gun domes and the ammo boxes.
Ive included an internal shot for cds123 because cds123 had asked me a while ago if I had any internal shots. The motors are two Mtroniks Vision 600 spring marines and a 30 amp Electronize Speed controller.
Aye
john e
BLUEBIRD
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Topic Split - Building the Shoseimaru (http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=6142.0)