Model Boat Mayhem

Mess Deck: General Section => Beginners start here...! => Topic started by: Del Boy on March 28, 2017, 09:37:50 pm

Title: Al Khubar build
Post by: Del Boy on March 28, 2017, 09:37:50 pm
Hi there, first to introduce myself ...... I am about to build my first scale ship and a good pal recommended the MS Conserver kit. I was so impressed with the build by Locksley on this forum I went ahead to try and buy it but ..... unfortunately no longer available. Back to the drawing board and selected the Al Khubar also from MS. Jackie was extremely knowledgeable and helped a great deal and the kit arrived yesterday, superbly packed so I now have high hopes of getting started. I was thinking about installing two Graupner 600's with the two 50mm 4 blade brass props MS supplied. Has anyone either tried this setup or have any alternative suggestions. I want to stick to Brushed cans if possible for other reasons. Thanks in advance!
Derek
Title: Re: Al Khubar build
Post by: Stavros on March 28, 2017, 10:35:32 pm
If I was you I would go with whatever Model Slipway recommend


Dave
Title: Re: Al Khubar build
Post by: Buccaneer on March 29, 2017, 07:29:39 pm
Hello Derek

I built the Al Khubar as my first motorised boat about 10 years ago. I bought it from Westbourne Models and was recommended to fit two MFA geared motors, can't remember the ratio, which gave it a good performance. As knowledge and experience grew I found them noisy. I would now suggest a couple of Mabuchi 555 from Componenet Shop. About half the price and a good motor for this sort of boat.

John
Title: Re: Al Khubar build
Post by: Del Boy on March 29, 2017, 08:01:17 pm

Hi Dave, John,


Thanks to both of you for your advice. I did ask MS as the instructions say 'we used 6:1 geared 540's running on 12v in the prototype' but that was probably some time ago so I called them to see if that was still the recommendation and the suggestion was to ask Component Shop. I have not had the time in working hours to do that yet but hopefully tomorrow or Friday!


I have just joined the SRCMBC and it was also suggested to go direct drive because of the noisy gearboxes so will certainly be taking all your advice.


I like the idea of twin 555's, as you say cheap and also a good range of mounts to boot.


Please forgive the simple picture attached, just wanted to try an upload and see the result.


Thanks both again, much appreciated.


Derek
Title: Re: Al Khubar build
Post by: Buccaneer on March 30, 2017, 07:47:14 pm
Hello Derek

I am a member of SRCMBC as well, see you at the lake. Ask David or Lorna to point me out or you can see my picture on the Solent Website.

John Tybjerg
Title: Re: Al Khubar build
Post by: Del Boy on March 30, 2017, 09:28:29 pm
Hi John that's great! Do you favour Thursdays or Sundays? I expect to be in Yarmouth this weekend but after that will get there. Look forward to meeting you!
Derek
Title: Re: Al Khubar build
Post by: Buccaneer on March 30, 2017, 09:37:11 pm
Hello Derek

I normally go Sundays. You will find a lot of good advice is available. I don't go the first Sunday of the month as I have another standing commitment but otherwise, weather permitting, I am usually there by 1000-1030.

John
Title: Re: Al Khubar build
Post by: Del Boy on May 03, 2017, 07:54:31 am

Hi,


At last found some time to start. Just made up a base to hold the hull as suggested by MS. Not much but off and running!


Derek
Title: Re: Al Khubar build
Post by: TugCowboy on May 03, 2017, 11:33:17 am
It's a start! Now better make something it can hold.
Look forward to seeing more of the build as it progresses.
Title: Re: Al Khubar build
Post by: T33cno on May 03, 2017, 12:40:06 pm
Watching with interest  :-))
Title: Re: Al Khubar build
Post by: Del Boy on May 03, 2017, 07:01:18 pm



So spurred on by TugCowboy's comment  {-) found some time to start to set up the running gear on STBD. Not easy lots of fingers needed! Even using the jig suggested by MS this is not going to be easy to align the prop tubes , kort nozzles, A frames etc. but will try!
Title: Re: Al Khubar build
Post by: T33cno on May 03, 2017, 07:10:48 pm
For my Portgarth I made this with same hole centres inboard and outboard to ensure shafts were parallel


(https://photos.smugmug.com/Portgarth-build/i-kvhMBHb/0/9f60ed6c/XL/IMG_0820-XL.jpg)


(https://photos.smugmug.com/Portgarth-build/i-PfCfTLg/0/afa609e4/XL/IMG_0821-XL.jpg)
Title: Re: Al Khubar build
Post by: Del Boy on May 04, 2017, 10:08:05 pm
Hi Andy, you beat me to it! I saw your albums last night and started to appreciate your work. Loads of questions I am afraid. Firstly I think I see you have mounted the motors on a metal plate, is this out of experience, I was simply thinking plywood? Secondly what are the vertical tubes on the two prop shafts for? Not seen this before. Longshanks had suggested making up a robust jig to ensure the best alignment and I am planning to try that tomorrow and your pictures show me how so great thanks. I really will try and set up the jig you have made to line up the shafts correctly. I must admit I struggled to mark up the positions on the hull so was a bit hit and miss with that but your photos show that you made very accurate measurements on your hull. I will try again and emulate for the port side at the weekend. Thanks again for your help, really appreciated.  Derek
Title: Re: Al Khubar build
Post by: Martin (Admin) on May 05, 2017, 04:23:30 am
Quote from: T33cno on May 03, 2017, 07:10:48 pm
For my Portgarth I made this with same hole centres inboard and outboard to ensure shafts were parallel

Clever! Me Like it!   :-))
Title: Re: Al Khubar build
Post by: T33cno on May 05, 2017, 06:04:11 am
Hi Derek
It is all detailed here
http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,57583.0.html (http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,57583.0.html)


The tubes are for applying oil and are made to order by MMM
The mounts and many other parts are made from paxolin but it's all on the thread Andy  :-))


Edit
No I'm not experienced and some things I've done are I believe a first as I'm not lead by tradition. Other things I would be lost without the valuable advice of forum members
Title: Re: Al Khubar build
Post by: Del Boy on May 31, 2017, 12:28:05 pm

After major trauma trying to position motors, shafts, props, kort nozzles, rudder tubes, A Frames and Skegs I had to take a break, just getting no where fast. Just could not get proper alignment so decided to try something different and started to cut the slots above the deck for drainage. I used a Brad point drill in my handheld 40 year old Stanley and it worked really well even if it did take ages! Apologies for the out of focus picture but I think you get the principle. If anyone has advice on an Al Khubar alignment method I am all ears (and eyes)!!!


Derek
Title: Re: Al Khubar build
Post by: Del Boy on May 31, 2017, 12:32:26 pm

After finishing drilling I simply joined the various holes and attempted to turn them into reasonable looking drainage slots.
Derek
Title: Re: Al Khubar build
Post by: BFSMP on May 31, 2017, 04:23:20 pm

looks smart and accurate to me, delboy :-))


Jim.
Title: Re: Al Khubar build
Post by: Del Boy on October 11, 2017, 09:34:37 pm
After a long and not so hot summer back in the workshop! First task was to align the shafts and rudder bushes and I have simply expoxied the tops of the A frames in and then added the lower rudder support, advice from Longshanks and many others was applied to a) put stiff tubes around the two couplings to keep them straight and then b) as T33cno suggested put two plates inside and out to keep the shafts parallel and finally c) Longshanks again suggested cut outs for the final prop positions. I don't mind admitting I found this all very difficult and I have made some mistakes but you have to start somewhere! I grew up on Tamiya kit precision so this is a new adventure.  ok2
Title: Re: Al Khubar build
Post by: Del Boy on October 16, 2017, 08:33:38 pm
Just a test with Flickr
https://www.flickr.com/photos/155484366@N08/albums/72157687411062660 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/155484366@N08/albums/72157687411062660)
Title: Re: Al Khubar build
Post by: T33cno on October 16, 2017, 08:58:45 pm
Looks tidy Derek  :-))
Title: Re: Al Khubar build
Post by: Del Boy on October 19, 2017, 08:46:13 pm

Hi there, I have had a couple of you ask what I meant by 'a) put stiff tubes around the two couplings to keep them straight'. This was a suggestion from Longshanks saying cut a tube so that it fits tight over the coupling before epoxy is applied to the prop shaft to get a direct and straight drive train. First photo shows the Brass tube lose over the shaft and second is with the tube pushed tight over the UJ. It worked a treat!


https://www.flickr.com/photos/155484366@N08/37766420762/in/album-72157687411062660/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/155484366@N08/37088842664/in/album-72157687411062660/


Hope it helps others who are starting this for the first time as it did me!


Cheers


Derek
Title: Re: Al Khubar build
Post by: ballastanksian on October 20, 2017, 09:03:49 pm
Using stiff tubes to link the shafts and motors while settig the drive train up is a well tried and oft used technique. She looks a fine model Del Boy  :-))
Title: Re: Al Khubar build
Post by: Del Boy on October 21, 2017, 07:08:36 pm

Thanks ballastanksian, all thanks to others!


Also thanks to 'Storm Brian' I found the time to mount the two motors and then do a trial with the radio kit, rudder mixer etc. Works pretty well but will need to rejig the starboard side, getting a rough sound from that drive train. I had only tacked the drive train in place so should be easy to break that and reset (what am I saying!). Please ignore my terrible soldering, had a dreadful time on the motor casings, just could not get it to take........


https://www.flickr.com/photos/155484366@N08/37835755091/in/dateposted-public/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/155484366@N08/37578163440/in/dateposted-public/

Title: Re: Al Khubar build
Post by: T33cno on October 21, 2017, 07:26:13 pm
Good work.
Do both props turn freely by hand? one may be tight.
Title: Re: Al Khubar build
Post by: Del Boy on October 22, 2017, 05:30:16 pm
Hi Andy, yes they both turn quite freely so I am a bit confused. I will have a go at swapping over the UJ's tomorrow and then the motor, I guess something could be out of line but just to check before hacking into the joints!
Title: Re: Al Khubar build
Post by: T33cno on October 22, 2017, 08:23:23 pm
Good approach  :-)) 
Are your shafts lubed?


These are better if you are aligned.


http://www.modelboatbits.com/MICROFLEX-COUPLINGS (http://www.modelboatbits.com/MICROFLEX-COUPLINGS)


I use these but specially modified by Steve to 8mmx8mm plain


http://www.modelboatbits.com/POWERFLEX-COUPLINGS (http://www.modelboatbits.com/POWERFLEX-COUPLINGS)
Title: Re: Al Khubar build
Post by: Del Boy on October 25, 2017, 08:57:06 pm

Hi T33cno, thanks for this, you will see why in a moment! First I tried to see if the motor was running true, seemed to be. Next I swapped the Pt prop shaft for the Stb one, no real difference I could see. I desperation had a rummage in my VERY old spares box (circa 40 years at least) and found an old spare plastic UJ. Fiddled around with this and got it on the shaft and it has made a significant difference. Too embarrassed to run with this so will be buying a pair of Microflex tomorrow! I see they have an oiling system so might buy that as well funds allowing. Daft question I know but what stops the water running up the tube and into the bilge? In my youth the shaft was filled with grease but MS say don't do that as it creates drag, any thoughts on that? Thanks again for the tip on couplings, much appreciated! :-))
Derek
Title: Re: Al Khubar build
Post by: T33cno on October 25, 2017, 09:06:12 pm
Thick oil like 20/50 is most popular me thinks and recommended by MMM too. Without an oiling tube there is little option but to use a waterproof grease in my mind but others may know better.
As for water penetration the oil not only lubricates but is a barrier.
I oil my tubes or top them up prior to every outing.
Title: Re: Al Khubar build
Post by: Del Boy on November 18, 2017, 01:11:04 pm

Ok so after a bit of a break that included a trip to the IMBS in Warwick (that I found inspirational and made me realise I need to try a lot harder!) got out to the workshop. I have started to fix the deck supports
https://www.flickr.com/photos/155484366@N08/37718507814/in/album-72157687411062660/
Then my pal Longshanks who was up for the IMBS helped me mark up the water line
https://www.flickr.com/photos/155484366@N08/37718497924/in/album-72157687411062660/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/155484366@N08/37718492914/in/album-72157687411062660/
We then ran a test to see how much ballast will be needed......
https://www.flickr.com/photos/155484366@N08/38377226586/in/album-72157687411062660/ supposed to be a tug but note the cargo capabilities!
https://www.flickr.com/photos/155484366@N08/37718526824/in/album-72157687411062660/ sits very nicely.
Weighed all this lot up and then the white metal fittings, estimated the remaining plastic and finally Rx, Servo, ESC's etc. and should be roughly OK.
Need to fix a battery 'shelf' and the rest of the deck supports next.
Derek



Title: Re: Al Khubar build
Post by: Del Boy on November 19, 2017, 08:44:12 pm

Battery support installed and sealed in with P38. Boring I know but all I had time for today!
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4571/38471379176_ebe5b954cb_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/21BzSGY)P1000632 (https://flic.kr/p/21BzSGY) by DEREK RULE (https://www.flickr.com/photos/155484366@N08/), on Flickr
Support beams next.
Title: Re: Al Khubar build
Post by: longshanks on November 19, 2017, 10:52:01 pm
Longest journey starts with the first sixth step  ;)
Title: Re: Al Khubar build
Post by: Del Boy on November 21, 2017, 09:00:17 pm

Started on the foredeck supports now. Bit tedious but OK. Need more clamps!
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4567/26792165089_eefe1e7ce4_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/GPwRfR)P1000636 (https://flic.kr/p/GPwRfR) by DEREK RULE (https://www.flickr.com/photos/155484366@N08/), on Flickr
Whilst they were drying tried a simple Rx layout design....
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4549/26792159339_adfec890b7_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/GPwPxH)P1000634 (https://flic.kr/p/GPwPxH) by DEREK RULE (https://www.flickr.com/photos/155484366@N08/), on Flickr
Interesting, what I thought was going to be lots of space ends up quite small!
Title: Re: Al Khubar build
Post by: Del Boy on November 23, 2017, 08:52:22 am

Made a start on the battery mount yesterday. Used 15mm sq. pine and seems to do the job. Longshanks recommended not fitting the end stop yet so that come balancing time I can move the battery forward if needed, clearly a great idea. That should be relatively easy to add later as there is a big opening under the bridge once deck etc. is all in place and final trimming is needed.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4519/38530325736_309a2911e7_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/21GMZsY)P1000637 (https://flic.kr/p/21GMZsY) by DEREK RULE (https://www.flickr.com/photos/155484366@N08/), on Flickr
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4573/26810941379_ea830cf1f4_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/GRc5MZ)P1000638 (https://flic.kr/p/GRc5MZ) by DEREK RULE (https://www.flickr.com/photos/155484366@N08/), on Flickr
Hoping to find time for deck fitting today.
Title: Re: Al Khubar build
Post by: longshanks on November 23, 2017, 02:19:27 pm
That's not going anywhere  :-)

Don't know what the jury think (I've never worked with big lead acid cells).

Is it worth putting a strap of some sort over the top??

Kev
Title: Re: Al Khubar build
Post by: T33cno on November 23, 2017, 07:40:40 pm
No straps on mine, they're far too heavy to move on their own. :-))
Title: Re: Al Khubar build
Post by: Del Boy on November 23, 2017, 09:45:05 pm

Thanks for the suggestion Kev, it does feel very secure (famous last words) plus of course 'er indoors is good at that sort of stuff so will be requested depending on 'er mood!
Thanks too Andy I will see on the first few sails how it goes, it does seem to weigh a ton so should be stable like yours.
Must admit a Grumpy Monk tonight  :(( , just could not get an acceptable fit around the decks .... must try harder
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4566/37888790434_94ddfcc321_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/ZJ6Xnu)P1000640 (https://flic.kr/p/ZJ6Xnu) by DEREK RULE (https://www.flickr.com/photos/155484366@N08/), on Flickr
So to cheer myself up I started mounting the various bits of electronic gear on the plate I intend to use, that went better!
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4575/37888792944_b2921a17ae_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/ZJ6Y7L)P1000641 (https://flic.kr/p/ZJ6Y7L) by DEREK RULE (https://www.flickr.com/photos/155484366@N08/), on Flickr
Will continue with this over the w/e
Thanks for checking in chaps, much appreciated!
Derek
Title: Re: Al Khubar build
Post by: david48 on November 24, 2017, 09:14:06 am

I have had thoughts about battery movement in my Fairmount , its is not the movement when its on the water ,its when its in the car . Because thy are very difficult to get in and out thy have to stop in all the time so when the car hits a hole the battery there is a slim chance because thy are heavy it could do damage ,that's why I secured them down.
That's my twopennys worth .
David
Title: Re: Al Khubar build
Post by: T33cno on November 24, 2017, 09:29:27 am
I find it best to transport the batteries separately and fit them when at the pond. This makes everything lighter and easier to handle.
Fair point about difficult access David. Mine is made easier by using two rather than one huge one
Title: Re: Al Khubar build
Post by: Del Boy on December 05, 2017, 08:32:52 pm

David, Andy, first of all thanks for the suggestions, hints and tips. In fact I do have to own up, the battery I have been showing is from my dingy inflator so 'free' to a certain extent. I thought I would try with that first, see how I got on and then if a change of strategy is needed buy two smaller cells just like yours Andy. Just me being cautious really but I do like the idea of fitting at the lake, will give some thought to transport needs and supporting it up high to do this fitting. Back in the workshop briefly today and threw in (quite literally and I know it looks it as well) two supporting beams for the Rx shelf. Not pretty but hopefully functional. I am hoping to tackle the final fit of the rudder servo tomorrow. Bit worried as part of that linkage has to go under the rear deck and don't know if my fingers and thumbs can manage that but that's to think about tomorrow.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4529/38826868532_1e2f27bc25_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/229ZRiN)P1000642 (https://flic.kr/p/229ZRiN) by DEREK RULE (https://www.flickr.com/photos/155484366@N08/), on Flickr
Title: Re: Al Khubar build
Post by: david48 on December 05, 2017, 08:47:01 pm

Make your self a dummy battery out of wood the same size as the battery you intend to use ,then its not heavy to use and you can build round the space it takes up ,then you know you can get it in and out.
David
Title: Re: Al Khubar build
Post by: ChrisF on December 05, 2017, 09:35:35 pm
You're making a nice neat job of everything, good work.
Title: Re: Al Khubar build
Post by: Del Boy on December 06, 2017, 09:15:31 pm

Thank you Chris, the encouragement is well received!


Fixed the Rx and ESC shelf in place tonight, added a simple rudder linkage too to see what issues I might get.


(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4571/38879236831_3f42c3e949_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/22eCfzv)P1000644 (https://flic.kr/p/22eCfzv) by DEREK RULE (https://www.flickr.com/photos/155484366@N08/), on Flickr


Then dropped the rear deck over just to see if I had the right access etc. to remove and lift out for adjustment and repair, dare I say it but seemed OK!


(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4563/25008196348_ba1728f1e7_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/E6Txv7)P1000646 (https://flic.kr/p/E6Txv7) by DEREK RULE (https://www.flickr.com/photos/155484366@N08/), on Flickr


Thanks for stopping by....


Derek
Title: Re: Al Khubar build
Post by: T33cno on December 06, 2017, 09:29:54 pm
There's tidy for you  :-))
Title: Re: Al Khubar build
Post by: ChrisF on December 06, 2017, 09:40:07 pm

Derek, interesting that you have  the rudder servo on its side to suit the low rudder assemblies, not seen that before.


I'm about to start building a boat that would benefit from a reduced height rudder but was concerned that water could get into the hull up the shaft. Can this be a problem?


Chris
Title: Re: Al Khubar build
Post by: longshanks on December 06, 2017, 10:54:37 pm
Wow that's neat, love it

 :-))

Title: Re: Al Khubar build
Post by: Del Boy on January 03, 2018, 08:02:16 pm

So, December, Christmas and New Year out of the way and back in the Workshop at last!
First thanks for the kind comments chaps, much appreciated.


Chris, I have no idea if water comes up the rudder tubes (bet it does!) so will no doubt need to solve that one!


David, appreciate the battery size comment. At the moment the battery is 'stolen' from my Dingy Inflator box and if it works in the tug on the water I will be happy. If not and weight distribution etc. becomes a problem I will go and buy two new smaller batteries as T33CNO did on his build.


In the meantime looking to site the Rx. I have read that this should go as high as possible and one aerial horizontal and the other vertical. Methinks best place for that then is in the superstructure somewhere. To do that I would need to extend the ESC / Servo cables but has anyone had interference problems doing this before, I suspect it needs about 300mm to be comfortable. Any thoughts please?


Ta


Derek
Title: Re: Al Khubar build
Post by: longshanks on January 06, 2018, 06:04:56 pm
Happy New Year

Top of the rudder shaft should be above waterline, so no problem ....

Re RX In my experience as long as it's high in the hull I've had no problems

Kev
Title: Re: Al Khubar build
Post by: Del Boy on January 06, 2018, 07:50:48 pm

Happy New Year to you Kev, trust it's warm enough for you! Thanks for the comments, rudder shafts do indeed look just above the waterline. See Rx later.


First shot, my Christmas present, very comfy, can recommend one to anybody with a bad back!


(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4643/38833039244_3af9a146a8_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/22axtDo)P1000668 (https://flic.kr/p/22axtDo) by DEREK RULE (https://www.flickr.com/photos/155484366@N08/), on Flickr


After much dithering and extending servo cables etc. to give some flexibility in mounting higher up the hull I made up a simple Rx Battery Box


(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4727/38833047954_34d30c4d0f_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/22axwey)P1000670 (https://flic.kr/p/22axwey) by DEREK RULE (https://www.flickr.com/photos/155484366@N08/), on Flickr


Tucks in nicely twixt the two motors.


(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4734/38645802345_8058ee0cdb_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/21SZQCZ)P1000671 (https://flic.kr/p/21SZQCZ) by DEREK RULE (https://www.flickr.com/photos/155484366@N08/), on Flickr


Bit of twiddling and fixing tomorrow then on with making it all a bit stronger.


Thanks for stopping by.


Derek
Title: Re: Al Khubar build
Post by: Del Boy on January 16, 2018, 07:25:30 pm

Hi,


Made some progress today. Tidied up some of my wiring, dry ran the Tx, RX, Mixer, ESC's etc and then pulled it all out prior to painting. Just finished putting a supporting fillet under all the deck supports and will tackle the hatch supports tomorrow. Sorry the photo is not too clear!


(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4621/25857499788_38f64ba562_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/FoWrPS)P1000689 (https://flic.kr/p/FoWrPS) by DEREK RULE (https://www.flickr.com/photos/155484366@N08/), on Flickr


More later!


Derek
Title: Re: Al Khubar build
Post by: Del Boy on January 20, 2018, 12:20:58 pm

Hi, made some more simple progress. I installed the Deck Beam's (they do seem incredibly flimsy) and did my best to reinforce with quite a large amount of P38 and Epoxy. I guess they will hold now. Photo shows them masked up>


(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4602/25903220788_4413e01c46_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/FsYM5Y)P1000690 (https://flic.kr/p/FsYM5Y) by DEREK RULE (https://www.flickr.com/photos/155484366@N08/), on Flickr


Then I gave the whole interior a quick coat of Halfords Grey Primer. I did this because on my last couple of boats (decades ago) I could not stop water ingress and the various wooden parts got swollen and were lots of trouble.


(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4741/25903222198_b9bf5b28a8_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/FsYMvh)P1000692 (https://flic.kr/p/FsYMvh) by DEREK RULE (https://www.flickr.com/photos/155484366@N08/), on Flickr


Not much planned now, lucky me off for a holiday! When I get back have to tackle the rudders, not looking forward to that as once epoxy's set they cant be removed!


Thanks for looking in,


Derek
Title: Re: Al Khubar build
Post by: longshanks on January 21, 2018, 09:33:38 am
Looking Good!
Wont be long and you'll have the deck on .....

Kev
Title: Re: Al Khubar build
Post by: Del Boy on April 10, 2020, 07:14:26 pm

So picking this up again after two years! Tackled the two Rudders. I trimmed the shaft to a slightly shorter length, roughed it up with a file and likewise inside the two Rudder halves. I then drilled a hole in the centre, used a two part rapid epoxy and using a small bolt and clamps set aside to dry. Hopefully will hold!


(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49757995632_497f246095_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2iNWJyq)P1020824 (https://flic.kr/p/2iNWJyq) by DEREK RULE (https://www.flickr.com/photos/155484366@N08/), on Flickr
Title: Re: Al Khubar build
Post by: Del Boy on April 12, 2020, 07:46:19 pm
Added Lead ballast to Bow, Port and Stern. Surprised just how much was needed.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49765849186_670496b16d_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2iPCZ9w)P1020832 (https://flic.kr/p/2iPCZ9w) by DEREK RULE (https://www.flickr.com/photos/155484366@N08/), on Flickr

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49765318098_09cfd597d2_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2iPAggQ)P1020834 (https://flic.kr/p/2iPAggQ) by DEREK RULE (https://www.flickr.com/photos/155484366@N08/), on Flickr

This is going to weigh a Ton!
Title: Re: Al Khubar build
Post by: Del Boy on April 12, 2020, 07:54:14 pm
Next up final checks to the Rudder linkage. Whilst I thought there was considerable space ended up with this very basic solution.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49766172662_55d8d00469_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2iPEDiG)P1020831 (https://flic.kr/p/2iPEDiG) by DEREK RULE (https://www.flickr.com/photos/155484366@N08/), on Flickr

Have to be honest it did require some 'adjustment' to the deck support beam, not for operational reasons but just dismantling etc. if needed later on.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49765820506_34fb49ad06_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2iPCQC3)P1020826 (https://flic.kr/p/2iPCQC3) by DEREK RULE (https://www.flickr.com/photos/155484366@N08/), on Flickr

Final test revealed all Electronics working as planned plus Rudder's so that's a wrap then!  :-))
Title: Re: Al Khubar build
Post by: Del Boy on April 12, 2020, 08:09:30 pm
So my final efforts today. All wiring tidied up (receiver, switches etc. to fit later) and so this is my final format prior to fixing the Decks.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49765299473_cd7e28eab6_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2iPAaJH)P1020828 (https://flic.kr/p/2iPAaJH) by DEREK RULE (https://www.flickr.com/photos/155484366@N08/), on Flickr


Forward Coamings in place


(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49765317278_7bf080bf50_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2iPAg2G)P1020836 (https://flic.kr/p/2iPAg2G) by DEREK RULE (https://www.flickr.com/photos/155484366@N08/), on Flickr


This feels like progress! :-)



Derek
P1020828 (https://flic.kr/p/2iPAaJH) by DEREK RULE (https://www.flickr.com/photos/155484366@N08/), on Flickr
Title: Re: Al Khubar build
Post by: warspite on April 13, 2020, 09:18:08 am
The Ballast strip, should it not be lower in the hull, you appear to have fitted it above or very near the waterline, is this after a buoyancy test and any up top structure, has that been accounted for?  {:-{  just wondered, I like your tidy up statement, wish I was that un-tidy
Title: Re: Al Khubar build
Post by: Del Boy on April 13, 2020, 01:01:44 pm

Really good points Warspite. As a complete newbie to this I took advice and it was suggested to get the weight as high up as possible in order to try and limit the inevitable 'bobbing' in a rough sea/pond. What I did was a 'bath test'. I added all the Styrene for the rest of the build in roughly the areas where it will end up. I then added all the white metal fittings again in a similar arrangement and then armed with Spirit Level set about balancing it all out with the Lead strips. Obviously I hope it works and don't doubt for one second the advice from a very experienced Sailor.


I do really appreciate you taking the time to comment, what are you building yourself?


Derek
Title: Re: Al Khubar build
Post by: Taranis on April 13, 2020, 01:39:07 pm
For stability all the weight should be along the keel and always as low as possible. Maybe I'm wrong I've not been modelling a great deal longer than you Derek but I've not come across anyone advocating placing ballast has you have been advised.    :-))  Looking good
Title: Re: Al Khubar build
Post by: derekwarner on April 13, 2020, 02:35:06 pm
mmmmmmm  :o .....best spend some time on Metrecentric point of Balance......

The simplest way to consider this is the speed of the arc of travel of the pendulum in the Grandfather Clock.......the longer the pendulum arm to the weight increases the time between reversal of direction. This in a model boat slows the speed of vessel roll, but increases the angle of roll

So lowering the metrecentric point reduces conditions such as ''bobbing'' and actually adds to realism in the vessel motion and roll


Having said this, bath testing is the logical path to determine the optimal location for ballast placement

Courtesy of the WIKI people


https://www.marineinsight.com/naval-architecture/intact-stability-of-surface-ships/ (https://www.marineinsight.com/naval-architecture/intact-stability-of-surface-ships/)


Derek [from Australia]

Title: Re: Al Khubar build
Post by: tugsov on April 13, 2020, 07:13:17 pm
Probably going a bit off topic here, but I'm not sure I buy into that explanation. The metacentric point is considered a fixed point in ship stability until a ship heels. It's the centre of gravity that you want to move. And the center of gravity will always move towards the weight that's added.


So if you add weight in the bottom of the Hull the centre of gravity moves away from the metacentre and the distance of metacentre to centre of gravity is increased, giving your vessel more stability, but the effect of this is faster rolls. If you add weight higher up the centre of gravity moves higher, and may end up above the metacentre, in which case you end up with negative stability and a capsize.


That's my understanding anyway, but the metacentric point doesn't move to my knowledge.






Title: Re: Al Khubar build
Post by: ballastanksian on April 13, 2020, 08:15:25 pm
I have heard and seen that putting ballast at the sides of a hull either on the bottom or just where the hull turns to form the sides gives a good balance between speed of wobble and height in the hull. I did this in my Destroyer and Monitor hulls and it seems to work.
Title: Re: Al Khubar build
Post by: warspite on April 13, 2020, 09:20:54 pm
I am certainly no expert - others are better at an explanation, to me though I high weight causes instability a low weight increases stability, that's to say the reduction of the possibility of a roll, weights fore and aft give better riding of the hull through waves so I have heard, never really built anything that could test the theory, only experience is my flower class corvette riding up and down violently at the bow and stern when all the weight was in the area under the rear part of the focsule on the hull bottom, see sawing effect, it could handle it like the real ship, just very disconcerting as a modeler.
Title: Re: Al Khubar build
Post by: Del Boy on April 15, 2020, 06:57:36 am

Many thanks to you all for your comments, input and suggestions, I really do appreciate them all.


I think maybe adding weight higher up was because I have a big Lead Acid Battery down low in the hull so hopefully pretty stable in that regard. I did do an on water test and to my untrained eye seemed OK but time will tell. I have the Decks down now so when final trimming is needed will definitely be loading up along the keel line. Thank you all once again.


(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49775391448_b5fb932446_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2iQtTJh)P1020829 (https://flic.kr/p/2iQtTJh) by DEREK RULE (https://www.flickr.com/photos/155484366@N08/), on Flickr


Working on the Bulwarks now so will be a while  ok2

Derek
Title: Re: Al Khubar build
Post by: DaveM on April 15, 2020, 09:43:38 am
I notice that you've fitted the battery lying on its side and exactly along the centreline of the keel. Do be aware that in this orientation the battery is heavier on the side away from the terminals - because the lead plates are in the bottom half of the case when it's standing up normally - and that this might cause a list to starboard.
DaveM
Title: Re: Al Khubar build
Post by: Del Boy on April 16, 2020, 11:22:23 am

Ha! I wondered why I had to add weight to Port  :embarrassed: did not know that so thank you very much Dave! When it comes to the final trimming I may well be able to adjust that to my advantage.


It seems like every aspect of this Hobby has a unique piece of interest, I have learnt so much from everyone already and not really got going yet, wonderful and thanks for your interest and support  :-)


Busy chopping out Bulwarks right now, what a job. Has dawned on me I will have to paint around this lot later  :((


Thanks for dropping in.


Derek
Title: Re: Al Khubar build
Post by: Del Boy on April 16, 2020, 11:57:56 am

So, just wondering what Filler is best to use on Styrene? I have a rather eclectic mix to hand (of various ages I must admit !) so what do members suggest for easy sanding etc.?


(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49780613697_81d7b83782_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2iQWE84)P1020893 (https://flic.kr/p/2iQWE84) by DEREK RULE (https://www.flickr.com/photos/155484366@N08/), on Flickr
P1020892 (https://flic.kr/p/2iQWEhH) by DEREK RULE (https://www.flickr.com/photos/155484366@N08/), on Flickr
Title: Re: Al Khubar build
Post by: Fred Ellis on April 16, 2020, 01:30:10 pm
My self I use the P38. then a bit of stopper if needed.
Title: Re: Al Khubar build
Post by: coch y bonddu on April 16, 2020, 05:27:01 pm
P38 is old hat and it simply leaver air holes far better off using easy light or one of the lightweight fillers that are 2 part ie filler and hardener,one of the best fine fillers on the market these days is a product called Dolphin glaze,can be used on any undercoat to hide a scratch for expample and does not leave and filler ringing marks on the surface.....Best place for the P38 is in the nearest bin sorry it does not have any place in our hobby far far superior products out there nowadays that rub down far far easier than that stuff.


Some of you will question this fact but believe you ME after 40 years on the car body trade i should know a thing or 2 about fillers,ask anyone in the trade what would they like an easy life or a difficult one i think i know the ans




Dave
Title: Re: Al Khubar build
Post by: DaveM on April 16, 2020, 07:33:23 pm
P38 does have its uses. I use it to make patterns for masters from which I then take silicon-rubber moulds and thence resin castings. It sets hard and sands very nicely, but in my usual applications it's only used once. For styrene filling I've always used Squadron Models' putty.
Nice to see my drawings of A-K still have their uses. They were originally drawn in pen onto tracing film so I don't have any digital copies. Those bulwark supports were as annoying to draw as they were to make, mask and paint!
Still, that's why we make model boats, innit?
Dave M
Title: Re: Al Khubar build
Post by: Taranis on April 16, 2020, 07:52:26 pm
I have found the new breed of squadron putty to be as much use as a chocolate fire guard
So many complaints that Leeds model shop readily accept returns
Title: Re: Al Khubar build
Post by: Del Boy on April 17, 2020, 11:36:04 am

Thank you all for your comments, much appreciated. So I have P38 but ……………….. absolutely rock hard from ages ago so that's been dumped! So decided to take Dave's advice and ordered the Dolphin Glaze from Lord Amazon, will let you know how I get on.


Interesting Dave M that you were involved in the original drawings, I have found them all very clear so far. I did duck fitting the Prop Nozzles through, try as I might I just could not get them to fit and have a clean driveline so they are in the Bitz box


Now back to those Bulwarks!


Thanks for connecting in this crazy time!


Derek
Title: Re: Al Khubar build
Post by: neverupright on April 21, 2020, 08:41:22 pm

Hi Derek


thanks for the kind words about my superstructure on my thread, got to say your progress is looking awesome, motors and everything look bang straight, a lot neater then mine are looking, keep up the good work, longing forward to following your progress.


Carl
Title: Re: Al Khubar build
Post by: Del Boy on April 26, 2020, 07:14:39 pm

So kind of lost my way a bit this week. I was discussing the 50 or so Bulwarks, fitting and then the tedious job of having to mask all round when I came to spray the Decks and sides with Longshanks. He suggested I paint them now and fit the Bulwarks afterwards. I thought this was a great idea so took a good hard look at the state of Decks etc. and had to get the Filler out in what seemed like a never ending task. I had bought some Dolphin Glaze as suggested by coch y bond du and was very pleased, it is as smooth and silk and easy to sand too thank goodness. So have spent the week fitting the carriers for Bow and Stern Fenders and aforesaid filling and sanding. Hoping to finish that tomorrow and do some trial spraying.


(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49822484896_eef00d0a88_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2iUDfYh)P1020908 (https://flic.kr/p/2iUDfYh) by DEREK RULE (https://www.flickr.com/photos/155484366@N08/), on Flickr


(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49821945298_d64a009a64_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2iUAuyS)P1020914 (https://flic.kr/p/2iUAuyS) by DEREK RULE (https://www.flickr.com/photos/155484366@N08/), on Flickr


That's all for now, stay safe and keep modeling!


Derek
Title: Re: Al Khubar build
Post by: Del Boy on May 05, 2020, 11:17:53 am
So I have spent the weekend fixing the Gunwales to the top of the Hull perimeter. Got there in the end and would suggest that anyone doing a similar job spends as much time as they can to bend the tube/wire into a near perfect shape before committing to the Cyno. I also had a challenge fixing and or securing whilst the Cyno set, in the end simply put some wood strips across the top and gently weighted it all down. Clean up next, bit of filling and final painting of the Hull and Decks can start.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49855556198_87099db549_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2iXyKV9)P1020928 (https://flic.kr/p/2iXyKV9) by DEREK RULE (https://www.flickr.com/photos/155484366@N08/), on Flickr
Title: Re: Al Khubar build
Post by: Del Boy on June 15, 2020, 05:21:26 pm

Seem to have made little progress of late but I have been filling and sanding for what seems the entire Spring! I have sprayed the Deck, Bulwarks and just finished installing the Bulwark Supports, gosh what a job but done now. Not all perfect but …………….  I did make up a little cheat though, just a glued down Peg to help position each Support vertically and it has worked reasonably well, compensates for my wobbly hands  :-)) Next job is to start on the superstructure. By the way can anyone recommend some suitable 1:32 scale figures to 'man' Al Khubar when finished?


(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50009475136_5bd3dd3e50_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2jcaCDW)P1020970 (https://flic.kr/p/2jcaCDW) by DEREK RULE (https://www.flickr.com/photos/155484366@N08/), on Flickr


(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50008953893_9e9bee34c0_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2jc7XGZ)P1030019 (https://flic.kr/p/2jc7XGZ) by DEREK RULE (https://www.flickr.com/photos/155484366@N08/), on Flickr


(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50009482461_206abb488b_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2jcaEQe)P1030018 (https://flic.kr/p/2jcaEQe) by DEREK RULE (https://www.flickr.com/photos/155484366@N08/), on Flickr




Title: Re: Al Khubar build
Post by: SailorGreg on June 15, 2020, 06:03:37 pm
There is a wide range of 1/32 figures available on e-bay, but most are military and nearly all would need some modification to fit your model.  If price is no object, you could try browsing around here (https://www.shapeways.com/shops/panzer-vs-tanks-2?s=0&section=1%2F32+Scale+Figures&page%5Bnumber%5D=2&page%5Blimit%5D=48&page%5Border%5D=asc).  They will probably fit the bill but you might need a mortgage to fully crew the ship!

Greg
Title: Re: Al Khubar build
Post by: Martin (Admin) on June 15, 2020, 11:25:10 pm
 
That's a clever idea!

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50009482461_206abb488b_k.jpg)
Title: Re: Al Khubar build
Post by: RST on June 16, 2020, 12:15:34 am
Quote
I did make up a little cheat though, just a glued down Peg to help position each Support vertically and it has worked reasonably well, compensates for my wobbly hands

...no "cheat" employed there! Thats' what modelling is all about!!!!