Model Boat Mayhem
Mess Deck: General Section => Tugs and Towing => Topic started by: destroyer42 on April 13, 2017, 04:06:46 pm
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Hi All,
our local club is looking to re-introduce tug towing, what are the rules that clubs use?
Also steering courses do clubs set out their courses to accommodate all sizes of models as currently some of our members feel that they would like to have a go and it's something that needs up grading and made more fun as some members feel intimidated by the more experienced members around a steering course.
I for one would like to see a steering course laid out to accommodate all sizes of model and maybe a penalty put against those models which are small, or have bow thrusters, steerable kort nozzles etc. which are not on the real model.
What's you views and how does your club carry out tug towing and steering courses?
Destroyer42
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Glynn Guest, Andy Cope and I have been trying to stimulate some discussion about this on the new MPBA website forum, without much success at the moment but you can read it here: http://www.mpba.org.uk/community/main-forum/your-mpba/paged/1/
Andy has also published a link to the steering courses used by the Southend club which has a good selection of workable layouts here:
http://www.smpbc.co.uk/2015-scale-series.html
I think it would be good to see more scale steering events, they need not be particularly competitive but there is much satisfaction in putting your boat through its paces in a way that exercises your handling skills rather than just swanning around the lake in rather aimless circles! Scale steering used to be a thriving competitive scene and while I think a lot of people are no longer into intense competition, that doesn't mean that a lot of fun could not be had from a more relaxed regime with just friendly rivalry.
I don't know much about tug towing myself but no doubt someone will be able to supply information. It is another area where ship handling skills can be demonstrated on a team basis and means you can actually use your model tug in a similar way to the full size prototype which has to be a good thing.
Glynn and I would like to see the MPBA sponsor a good open steering event somewhere reasonably central to attract as many people as possible. Realistically it would need to be hosted by an existing club which has a readymade set of hazards and obstacles and the organisation to stage it.
Colin
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Hi, I am the competition secretary for (Lincoln) 'Hartsholme Electric MBC'.
We have been doing steering courses for 35 years and tug towing for the past 5 in seriousness. Our rules are the same for any competition, Penalties are given as ; 10 points for a wrong course deliberate or otherwise, 2 points for every touch/scrape against an object in the course either by the tug or tow (vessel), 3 attempts at any particular part of a course such as the touching of a bell buoy or attempt at docking betwixt two fixed points (thus failure after 3 attempts incurs a 10 point penalty). We have found that for scale steering events a minimum length of vessel of 21" is applicable and within tug tow a contestant may use whatever he deems fit (as it is by experience that no particular drive system is superior to another when it comes down to the pressures of guiding a barge/s through a challenging course!!) All objects are of uniform distance apart (1 yrd/m) making gates to steer through. The courses are diagrammed in colour and set out as near to the map as is possible. Start and finish gates are designated by red and green bouys (Port and starboard). A demonstration run is verbally given or even shown by the secretary so as all competitors have no excuse. Although good humour and discretion rule the day. If you would like any further details, I am more than happy to share photos of objects, courses etc
Good luck to you all
Pirate
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Topic renamed on request....
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At Balne Moor MBC we have operated tug competitions for many years. Our rules have been posed on this Forum before.
I've tried to put them as an attachment to this post, but the file size is currently too big.
I'll persevere and find a way to post them again.
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Destroyer42,
The easiest way to see our tug towing rules is to have a look at our website.
Use the link below and look at our tug and scale page, the tug towing rules are printed there.
Hope this helps
Michael
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I think it would be good to see more scale steering events, they need not be particularly competitive but there is much satisfaction in putting your boat through its paces in a way that exercises your handling skills rather than just swanning around the lake in rather aimless circles! Scale steering used to be a thriving competitive scene and while I think a lot of people are no longer into intense competition, that doesn't mean that a lot of fun could not be had from a more relaxed regime with just friendly rivalry.
I couldn't agree more with those sentiments. It used to be fun going to a model boat regatta watching the thrills AND spills of skippers manoeuvring their models round a well thought out course. Nowadays you are lucky if you see a couple of buoys laid out to sail round.
Jim.
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Glynn Guest, Andy Cope and I have been trying to stimulate some discussion about this on the new MPBA website forum, without much success at the moment but you can read it here: http://www.mpba.org.uk/community/main-forum/your-mpba/paged/1/ (http://www.mpba.org.uk/community/main-forum/your-mpba/paged/1/)
Andy has also published a link to the steering courses used by the Southend club which has a good selection of workable layouts here:
http://www.smpbc.co.uk/2015-scale-series.html (http://www.smpbc.co.uk/2015-scale-series.html)
I think it would be good to see more scale steering events, they need not be particularly competitive but there is much satisfaction in putting your boat through its paces in a way that exercises your handling skills rather than just swanning around the lake in rather aimless circles! Scale steering used to be a thriving competitive scene and while I think a lot of people are no longer into intense competition, that doesn't mean that a lot of fun could not be had from a more relaxed regime with just friendly rivalry.
I don't know much about tug towing myself but no doubt someone will be able to supply information. It is another area where ship handling skills can be demonstrated on a team basis and means you can actually use your model tug in a similar way to the full size prototype which has to be a good thing.
Glynn and I would like to see the MPBA sponsor a good open steering event somewhere reasonably central to attract as many people as possible. Realistically it would need to be hosted by an existing club which has a readymade set of hazards and obstacles and the organisation to stage it.
Colin
As many Mayhemers will be aware, Balne Moor MBC is renowned for its tug-towing activities. We are more fortunate than many clubs as our pond is on private land so we are able to leave harbours and buoys etc in-situ for the season.
For many years our programme of events included an MPBA Challenge Shield each October. That competition was in the 3-2-1 format where teams of tuggers towed vessels around courses set for a single tow, two tugs towing and all three tugs working together. The MPBA withdrew its support for the event in 2016, saying they were no longer interested in supporting scale sailing and tug towing.
Our final event of the season is now sponsored by Svitzer Tugs. We also have a scale steering and tug towing event sponsored by Norther Winches.
Regarding scale-steering, we too have found people are less interested in serious competition but do enjoy the challenge of a set course. Last year we introduced a self-scoring system akin to golfing which proved so popular we are continuing with it. For challenge events, the top three scoring sailors will go again with an independent judge. Tug-towing competitions are still judged independently throughout.
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Regarding scale-steering, we too have found people are less interested in serious competition but do enjoy the challenge of a set course. Last year we introduced a self-scoring system akin to golfing which proved so popular we are continuing with it. For challenge events, the top three scoring sailors will go again with an independent judge. Tug-towing competitions are still judged independently throughout.
Having never been to Wickstead, and probably never will get there due to mobility problems, I could never comment upon what does or should go on there, but it seems to be a consensus of opinion that it would be nice to have some sort of competition running throughout the weekend of the Wickstead "regatta" with a prize for the winner appropriate to the competition, and as such why not hold a tug towing competition.
If there are any members from the Balne Moor MBC going for the weekend, who seem expert in this field of competition, perhaps they could meet with Colin Bishop (whom I agree with about making these meetings more interesting) and who has immense knowledge himself of the MPBA rules and regulations for such competition from what I read, at Wickstead and between them , come up with a course for tug towing. Perhaps Wickstead club could lend the buoys and other paraphernalia for setting out such a course.
Then if it all went well, then change the type of course and competition for next year to another type of craft, with Colin officiating again.
Just an idea and input even if sadly I can't attend.
Jim.
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Hi All,
our local club is looking to re-introduce tug towing, what are the rules that clubs use?
Also steering courses do clubs set out their courses to accommodate all sizes of models as currently some of our members feel that they would like to have a go and it's something that needs up grading and made more fun as some members feel intimidated by the more experienced members around a steering course.
I for one would like to see a steering course laid out to accommodate all sizes of model and maybe a penalty put against those models which are small, or have bow thrusters, steerable kort nozzles etc. which are not on the real model.
What's you views and how does your club carry out tug towing and steering courses?
Destroyer42
Hi I thought you would have contacted Ray Malone your top man at Tug towing. Ray has had many a trip to Balne Moor & also we
have been down to South End towing. Here is the layout of our pond at the moment, where we can have towing & scale steering at
the same time, we found that some members was not interested in towing or did not have a tug all though a tug was offered to tow
with, so on a towing regatta we felt that the scale boys should also have a go, so if it's towing, scale have a sail, if it's scale day
towers have a go, every body happy :-))
John
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Hi You mention grading, We go for Large & Small boat, a boat over 40" is classed as Large, the rest is classed as small, we
combined one course into two by putting a slip off for the large boat, then it comes back onto the main course. If you build your
course right you will find the model at 34"/36" with bells & whistles will have a hard time, hope this helps & makes sense.
John
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Hi These are the rules we tow by.
John
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This is a old towing course. one man tow
John
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Hi All,
Many thanks for your reply's and comments, unfortunately like a lot of clubs our steering course and tug towing is rather undescribed and I'm looking to resurrect it.
A lot of members complain that the course are either to complicated or their boat is to big to go around the course. What distance do other clubs have between buoys gates etc being in mind some members only sail scale warships which can be 6 feet long?
Do you dock points for any enhancements that are not on the real ship like bow thrusters, kort nozzle's which are not on the real model?
I want to make it a bit more fun rather than the seriousness it currently is, thus putting off the majority, you views would be appreciated.
Destroyer 42
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i dont think the course's we have at southend are that challenging colin as the last regatta steve b took part with a boat he never used before getting 2 clear round's & getting first place!! beating both me & frank who have taken part in many regattas over the years well done steve!!
most of us do build models that are true to scale have the same running gear as the real ship ie- kort nozzels bow thrusters even voith units theres lots of boats out there that are built useing ''modellers licence''
i personally think if you start docking points because the model has a bow thruster or a steering nozzel or voiths not many will want to take part in doing the courses =taking the fun out of things !!
what i think is to make a different course each time so no one gets used to the same courses
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It wasn't my suggestion to start docking points for boats with bow thrusters etc. If you have a decent course then the most important thing is to know how your boat responds. My best steering boat was always a single screw tramp steamer. No complicated controls but it was very handy round the courses. Having lots of thrusters etc. can just make things overcomplicated sometimes so there isn't always the advantage you might expect.
Anyway, these days I think it is just fun to test yourself around a course irrespective of what others are doing. If you have built your boat then it is always very satisfying to explore how it responds around an interesting course. Doesn't really matter if you win anything or not. It's still more interesting than just sailing around in circles.
Colin
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its not you colin bishop its destroyer 42 who is also a colin :-)) i cant agree more though you can have a model with all the bells & whistles but its how you drive it that counts :-))
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Interesting debate.
I was a member of SMPBC for over 10 years until I emigrated south. There were many great days at the club on both steering and towing regattas with up to 50 boats at the water side in the 90’s & 00’s until the moaners started taking over………………….‘It’s too windy, ‘that’s too tight’, ‘I can’t see that’ etc. etc. It is indeed this moaning which has cost the club many good officers over the years and a sad inditement that the moaners were not told to put a sock in it!
Steering or towing is a competition, if you make courses so slack that you can get a 50 inch model around then of course it is going to be much easier to take a 18 inch model around, but the main point it is equal for all. If one part is tight for your 50 incher then it is going to be tight for the next and the likely hood of a touch is equal! Things can always be manipulated, I remember one chap who has since passed on had a 50 inch landing craft with a beam of about 5 inches. When slalom sections were set out due to the width of his model he could sail strait through them! An ingenious idea where many similar models then followed with cannel boats etc.
I have seen and been involved in cases over the years where certain individuals will insist on judging there closes rival and employ underhanded tactics such as just ‘mentioning’ something at the most inopportune moment to distract your attention! Yes, I did not believe it at first but yes it is indeed true as it happened far too many times to be a coincidence. This is the level that some people stoop to attempt to steal a victory, but in most cases fail, I am sure!
I hope that the cake is not being over egged. The club as there retains enough knowledge in the of people who have been there since my days such as Ray, Les, Andy, Gerry. These guys are the ones that you should be talking to as they know the winning recipe and could guide should these things be resurrected.
A competition is just that, I hope that the PC road of; ‘everyone is a winner’ is not being walked. At the end of the day some people just cannot drive model boats, they are always welcome to join in, but should not expect a special course to be laid for them! I know that I cannot juggle whilst doing the hula-hoop on a unicycle, hence if I ever entered such a competition for circus skills I would not expect to come anywhere!
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The way forward? %)
Colin
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Hi All,
An interesting debate to seek the views of other clubs on this subject, it's something to explore at club level in order to resurrect this declining sector of model boating and hopefully seek to discuss this with our current committee, with a view to enhancing the scale section with emphasis on having fun, which hopefully will drive interest from members to get involved.
Destroyer42
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Hi Colin,
That looks fun, where do you get the boats!
Destroyer42
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Is that Dartmouth Colin?
Teaching the new RN Commanding
Officers!
Ned
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It's on the Gunwharf development at Portsmouth.
Just imagine converting them to brushless!
Colin
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for a fun steering course, i've seen a U tube clip of boat snooker! pairs of buoys in the appropriate colours, with points as snooker. 4 reds, so that they can be "potted" either way. i think it was against a clock as well, but an mtb was not any quicker around the "table", as it kept touching buoys.
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Hi All,
Many thanks for your reply's and comments, unfortunately like a lot of clubs our steering course and tug towing is rather undescribed and I'm looking to resurrect it.
A lot of members complain that the course are either to complicated or their boat is to big to go around the course. What distance do other clubs have between buoys gates etc being in mind some members only sail scale warships which can be 6 feet long?
Do you dock points for any enhancements that are not on the real ship like bow thrusters, kort nozzle's which are not on the real model?
I want to make it a bit more fun rather than the seriousness it currently is, thus putting off the majority, you views would be appreciated.
Destroyer 42
Hi I am building a Tug 1/48 scale the question is because I want to (Tow) and also maybe in completion Towing, I want my Tug to resemble on the outside as close to (Scale as Possible) but I want to fit (What ever I want to as a drive system as Motor size and Prop size and bow thrusters if I wish) electric of course powered with Maximum 12volts system. So a simple way of looking at this is eg: A driving test to gain a licence in a car? IS a test of (SKILL and Knowledge) No matter the Make of (CAR) (Truck in HGVs) or (Buses) or even (Trains) and Boats or (Tanks) RC Models ( Sails? Battle ships, Tugs, all manner ) should be able to participate even (NON Scale with crazy designs Race ) So That will be my approach on this build (Rope sizes) are open for discussion as yet I have not found any information only up to the competitor? Thank You for this thread hopefully I will keep an eye on it and look forwards to Finishing my (TUG)
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I would endorse your view of what is acceptable/permissible.
You could argue that what is below the water is open to your own interpretation.
At Balne Moor the default scale tends to be 1/32, but only because it is more robust and things are less likely to get broken. Many in reality are 'stand off" scale. Things do get broken when you tow.
Most of our tugs have bow thrusters etc even if the real subject does not. We have tugs which are built as pure towing machines and others which are finer scale, it's up to you.
The thing is to enjoy it :} however you configure it!
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I would endorse your view of what is acceptable/permissible.
You could argue that what is below the water is open to your own interpretation.
At Balne Moor the default scale tends to be 1/32, but only because it is more robust and things are less likely to get broken. Many in reality are 'stand off" scale. Things do get broken when you tow.
Most of our tugs have bow thrusters etc even if the real subject does not. We have tugs which are built as pure towing machines and others which are finer scale, it's up to you.
The thing is to enjoy it :} however you configure it!
Thanks for your reply as you may realize I am up to my neck in it at the moment trying to get it all in my head before I actually saw or drill anything?? I have got most all I need but trying to get a good battery at a reasonable price ?? No luck but seen a 12v 22ahs but maybe just to big doing mock up you know the stuff (measure 3 or 4 or 5 ?times then forget what you are doing?? Ill say this (WHEN) it is built if every thing goes ok I may come over to your place for a look round? Thanks
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Hi These are the rules we tow by.
John
excuse Me I don't see anywhere about (One) Tug?? so I can't enter if I am on my own?? with the only Tug I have??
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You'd be very welcome to come anytime and have a look at what we do.
We have three tug towing competitions later in the year in August, September and October (details on our website - link below). There will be tugs to borrow if you've not got yours ready. The August one is less competitive, though non are taken too seriously.
The second of those events has sections for 1, 2 and 3 tugs. What happens though is that you compete as part of a team of three.
The teams are agreed on the day and you'd be paired with more experienced tuggers.
I get my batteries from Component shop my largest tug has two batteries fitted a 12x20 and a 12x10. They make great ballast.
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You'd be very welcome to come anytime and have a look at what we do.
We have three tug towing competitions later in the year in August, September and October (details on our website - link below). There will be tugs to borrow if you've not got yours ready. The August one is less competitive, though non are taken too seriously.
The second of those events has sections for 1, 2 and 3 tugs. What happens though is that you compete as part of a team of three.
Tanks for the update and (yes ) is the short answer I will look you out not sure about August though? batteries I think I may have some hopefully run 2 ? 12v x 15Amh each and maybe run a 6v x ? forgot the amps for the min? both lead acid sealed the 6v for bow thruster and rudder servo? and even reciver? brother is (A sparks) old but knows his stuff so he will do drawings for wires? The sise of batteries (were) a problem Its a Mine Field out there but like The sealed ones and for amps Thanks (Yoshic48) Tag but Roy is mine.
The teams are agreed on the day and you'd be paired with more experienced tuggers.
I get my batteries from Component shop my largest tug has two batteries fitted a 12x20 and a 12x10. They make great ballast.
Formatting re-arranged
ken
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You'd be very welcome to come anytime and have a look at what we do.
We have three tug towing competitions later in the year in August, September and October (details on our website - link below). There will be tugs to borrow if you've not got yours ready. The August one is less competitive, though non are taken too seriously.
The second of those events has sections for 1, 2 and 3 tugs. What happens though is that you compete as part of a team of three.
The teams are agreed on the day and you'd be paired with more experienced tuggers.
I get my batteries from Component shop my largest tug has two batteries fitted a 12x20 and a 12x10. They make great ballast.
Hi (Butts) the batteries have you got there size the ones I am looking at are 151mm X 98mm X 96mm if possible I could do with slightly smaller with higher amp hrs any help would be great?
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If you check out Component Shop's website there is a 12vx12ah battery which is almost exactly the dimensions
you quote. I note though that it is currently out of stock.
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If you check out Component Shop's website there is a 12vx12ah battery which is almost exactly the dimensions
you quote. I note though that it is currently out of stock.
Thank you for all your help best use the time to Build?? and look forwards to meeting you in the future Roy
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No problem, just remember to enjoy the build :} .
Look forward to seeing it perform at Balne Moor :-)) .
Michael
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Hi Roy regarding batteries I use 2x 12v 12amp batts in my Afon hull which runs 70mm lost props powered by some very powerful motors the tug will tow any ship round all day without changing the batteries another supply for the batts are alarm wholesalers worth a look if you struggle to find some pm me as I used to work at a wholesalers and can get batts still
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Hi I am building a Tug 1/48 scale the question is because I want to (Tow) and also maybe in completion Towing, I want my Tug to resemble on the outside as close to (Scale as Possible) but I want to fit (What ever I want to as a drive system as Motor size and Prop size and bow thrusters if I wish) electric of course powered with Maximum 12volts system. So a simple way of looking at this is eg: A driving test to gain a licence in a car? IS a test of (SKILL and Knowledge) No matter the Make of (CAR) (Truck in HGVs) or (Buses) or even (Trains) and Boats or (Tanks) RC Models ( Sails? Battle ships, Tugs, all manner ) should be able to participate even (NON Scale with crazy designs Race ) So That will be my approach on this build (Rope sizes) are open for discussion as yet I have not found any information only up to the competitor? Thank You for this thread hopefully I will keep an eye on it and look forwards to Finishing my (TUG)
Well I did have a leak but fixed now still doing electric Tested and ok but working out for (extras) but should be moving on now with deck work ?? And Yes I was about 4.5 kls over weight?? looking for good (Loud) Horn?? I did see one member on here has them but don't know who any Ideas would be welcome?
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No problem, just remember to enjoy the build :} .
Look forward to seeing it perform at Balne Moor :-)) .
Michael
By the way I may change the colours of my model and name I hope that does not bother anyone??
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Hi I am building a Tug 1/48 scale the question is because I want to (Tow) and also maybe in completion Towing, I want my Tug to resemble on the outside as close to (Scale as Possible) but I want to fit (What ever I want to as a drive system as Motor size and Prop size and bow thrusters if I wish) electric of course powered with Maximum 12volts system. So a simple way of looking at this is eg: A driving test to gain a licence in a car? IS a test of (SKILL and Knowledge) No matter the Make of (CAR) (Truck in HGVs) or (Buses) or even (Trains) and Boats or (Tanks) RC Models ( Sails? Battle ships, Tugs, all manner ) should be able to participate even (NON Scale with crazy designs Race ) So That will be my approach on this build (Rope sizes) are open for discussion as yet I have not found any information only up to the competitor? Thank You for this thread hopefully I will keep an eye on it and look forwards to Finishing my (TUG)
Any help on how to ballast a vessel to be (towed by Tugs) of different sizes of tugs (Scale ) 1/48 , 1/32 scale 1/72 scale is it the how big inches and how much ballast in grams or kg?? I am puzzled as Actually (The Yorkshire man ) Tug 1/48 scale = beam 9" and 34" Long is not technically correct? the real tug is 24mt long and 9 metre wide so the model is incorrect??so I need the weight for towing a barge? I do know that models have the waves are possible not to scale?
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Take some empty Plastic Milk Bottles with you, and fill them from the Pond, then after use return water to the Pond.
Len.
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Yes, that is one way we use to ballast tows at Balne Moor.
We used to have the "St George" at our pond a 1/32 scale SD14 cargo ship. That's a big model and a lot of ballast!
Another of our tows has a valve system which allows it to take on water as it settles on the pond.
The third has on board electric pumps which flood the hull after it is put in the water.
Depending on how "to scale" you want to be, you do not want to be handling a tow when it is ballasted. We have a heavy tow boat launch to avoid members being projected into the pond. :embarrassed:
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Hi Butts,
last year I looked the movies on YT where tug towing in Balne Moor is showed. Very impressive, I like tug towing with models! I miss new movies, the newest I found are a couple of years old. Can I find new ones anywhere?
Regards
Harry
The picture shows a salvage of a grounded container vessel...
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.Hello Harry,
No, unfortunately I do not think there have been any recent videos of tugs towing at Balne Moor.
We'll have to try to make some this year :-))
There are four videos on the Club website, one is the Club video, the other three are old ones you may have already
seen on YT. The gallery has photos of all the events we held in 2017. The link is below.
Your photo and video link are very interesting :-))
Regards
Michael.
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I will do my best to start uploading videos again I do miss seeing them again
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I will do my best to start uploading videos again I ...
:-)) :-)) :-))
Is this your channel?: https://www.youtube.com/user/ministeve72
Regards
Harry
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The gallery has photos of all the events we held in 2017. The link is below.
Your photo and video link are very interesting :-))
Thank you 2 times :-))
Regards
Harry
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Tug towing with three tugs in Miniatur Wunderland, using their floating dock.
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Yes Harry it' a shame I didn' keep up the video's as I would have liked more of friends we no longer have with us I will endevour to pull my finger out this year
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Heres my first attempt at towing at Balne Moor, if my memory serves me well this was about 5years ago {-)
hope the link works https://youtu.be/iDIMsQ8TyZQ
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It's a while since the pond looked like that Brian.
I reckon a bit more than 5 years, I've never seen it quite like that.
The crane is still there, but needs renovation now. The listing tow is no more <:(
I knew already that yours is a fine Maltby, but seeing do what it should is great :-))
I got a bit seasick towards the end though :embarrassed:
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Hi chipchase,
Great video of your 1st tow at Balne moor ,and a nice looking tug. I don't think my 1st tow was as smooth as yours.
Spud
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It's a while since the pond looked like that Brian.
I reckon a bit more than 5 years, I've never seen it quite like that.
The crane is still there, but needs renovation now. The listing tow is no more <:(
I knew already that yours is a fine Maltby, but seeing do what it should is great :-))
I got a bit seasick towards the end though :embarrassed:
it is a great venue Butts, my mate Peter had the camera {-) i will have to try and get back one of these days :-))
I think it was more good luck than skill Spun LOL
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Heres my first attempt at towing at Balne Moor, if my memory serves me well this was about 5years ago {-)
hope the link works https://youtu.be/iDIMsQ8TyZQ (https://youtu.be/iDIMsQ8TyZQ)
Well done, a new movie :-))
As I understand it's quite still at the pond in Balne Moor nowadays?
Regards
Harry
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Yes, it's usually quite still at Balne Moor Harry. The difference is that now there are far more harbours and obstacles to steer around with the tugs (and for scale steering).
This year there will be a section which has fewer obstacles so the warships
can show their paces.
Come along anytime Brian, there's a full programme of the events on our website, follow the link below
Michael
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Come along anytime Brian, there's a full programme of the events on our website, follow the link below
Michael
:-))
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This year there will be a section which has fewer obstacles so the warshipscan show their paces.
Surely building a model of a warship is a big challenge, it has so many details to build. But on the pond tug towing and crane workings are much more interesting. The movies from Balne Moor are proving this :-)
Did you know, in Hamburg the Royal Mail has a mailbox, too: https://youtu.be/qHQ9gKA5KbM (https://youtu.be/qHQ9gKA5KbM)
Regards
Harry
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This is all interesting stuff, but warships are so different to tugs in maneuvering.
Example: The battleship I am building will have a turning circle of around 20 feet, three times its length, but my springer tug with Kort nozzle can spin virtually on its own axis.
A lovely film clip from a European show recently had warships being towed through lift bridges, turning it, and berthed alongside the quay. Very skilfully accomplished.
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That sort of is our point Bob.
We have quite a lot of tug members as people know, but we also
have members with large warships which, as you say, do not turn as quickly.
The more open area is to make the pond more usable for those warships. We've even installed
a heavy boat lift, to avoid the potential for injury :-))
Novel idea for a postbox Harry. When it rains our post arrives wet, so I do not know how the submerged box will fare %%
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Hi, I am the competition secretary for (Lincoln) 'Hartsholme Electric MBC'.
We have been doing steering courses for 35 years and tug towing for the past 5 in seriousness. Our rules are the same for any competition, Penalties are given as ; 10 points for a wrong course deliberate or otherwise, 2 points for every touch/scrape against an object in the course either by the tug or tow (vessel), 3 attempts at any particular part of a course such as the touching of a bell buoy or attempt at docking betwixt two fixed points (thus failure after 3 attempts incurs a 10 point penalty). We have found that for scale steering events a minimum length of vessel of 21" is applicable and within tug tow a contestant may use whatever he deems fit (as it is by experience that no particular drive system is superior to another when it comes down to the pressures of guiding a barge/s through a challenging course!!) All objects are of uniform distance apart (1 yrd/m) making gates to steer through. The courses are diagrammed in colour and set out as near to the map as is possible. Start and finish gates are designated by red and green bouys (Port and starboard). A demonstration run is verbally given or even shown by the secretary so as all competitors have no excuse. Although good humour and discretion rule the day. If you would like any further details, I am more than happy to share photos of objects, courses etc
Good luck to you all
Pirate
Hi yes I am trying to get all the information I can I can Not find a rule of thumb for the (Length) and ( importantly Weight) of the (tow barges) for each Size and class of tug Any information would be helpful, I do intend this summer to visit (Blaine Moor ) when the weather breaks as they have helped out a lot already hope to see all soon?
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As always, you're welcome to come along and have a look at how we do things at Balne Moor. Have a look at our website (link below) and pick an event date which is suitable for you. Even when it's listed as a scale sailing day we'll have tows in the water to test your skill. The exception will be the May MPBA joint event which will be scale only.
Whilst in theory you could come on other weekends, it has to be by arrangement. We are unusual in having a secure site which has benefits, but also makes it difficult for visitors to get in on non event days.
Hope to see you some time this season :-))
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Hi,
today I began to implement a new way of 'handicapping' for tug tow. I am testing the bollard pull of each tug in our club whose owner is desirous of competing this year. Utilising a 3m length of floating cord as a tow rope from vessel to shore, attached at shore is a digital fish weighing device (c 5 pound via e bay). The results today so far; 0.32/0.57/0.94/0.97/3.5/3.8/5.6 llb. So you see there is an evident division of 1llb and below and that of 3.5 llb and above. Thus when all the results are in we will have a low category pulling a lighter barge (c10 llb in weight(MMM)) and a high category pulling my own design barge (c28 llb). the 'twin tow will also be governed by this division with the lower category pulling a lighter merchant vessel, and the higher towing my own design larger vessel. If desired I will keep all informed of these advances as and when there is more data.
My thoughts were to attempt at leveling the proverbial playing field and giving All a chance of competing pro rata. I have measured the respective tows;large barge - 4 foot x 11 inches x 6
small barge - 33 inches x 8.5 x 4
large tow - 10 foot x 15.5 x 8 (c 125 llb)
small tow - 5 foot x 1 foot x 9 inches (c 40 llb)
I do hope this is of use. Only time will tell (perhaps this is the year I will not be the tug tow champ of our club!!?)
regards
Pirate
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Hi,
today I began to implement a new way of 'handicapping' for tug tow. I am testing the bollard pull of each tug in our club whose owner is desirous of competing this year. Utilising a 3m length of floating cord as a tow rope from vessel to shore, attached at shore is a digital fish weighing device (c 5 pound via e bay). The results today so far; 0.32/0.57/0.94/0.97/3.5/3.8/5.6 llb. So you see there is an evident division of 1llb and below and that of 3.5 llb and above. Thus when all the results are in we will have a low category pulling a lighter barge (c10 llb in weight(MMM)) and a high category pulling my own design barge (c28 llb). the 'twin tow will also be governed by this division with the lower category pulling a lighter merchant vessel, and the higher towing my own design larger vessel. If desired I will keep all informed of these advances as and when there is more data.
My thoughts were to attempt at leveling the proverbial playing field and giving All a chance of competing pro rata. I have measured the respective tows;large barge - 4 foot x 11 inches x 6
small barge - 33 inches x 8.5 x 4
large tow - 10 foot x 15.5 x 8 (c 125 llb)
small tow - 5 foot x 1 foot x 9 inches (c 40 llb)
I do hope this is of use. Only time will tell (perhaps this is the year I will not be the tug tow champ of our club!!?)
regards
Pirate
Hi Thanks yes that sounds great in practice (I don't know )? I am building a practice /(Barge) out of a cardboard box? and yes we have the skill to make it water proof as well as sink proof (Hopfully)
we have made other models this way and we will see how it goes, but it may be on the large as in width and high to be determind but about 33in long and could weight as much as we like for different classes??
well it will be OK for tests and practice will let you know ??
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As always, you're welcome to come along and have a look at how we do things at Balne Moor. Have a look at our website (link below) and pick an event date which is suitable for you. Even when it's listed as a scale sailing day we'll have tows in the water to test your skill. The exception will be the May MPBA joint event which will be scale only.
Whilst in theory you could come on other weekends, it has to be by arrangement. We are unusual in having a secure site which has benefits, but also makes it difficult for visitors to get in on non event days.
Hope to see you some time this season :-))
Hi Thanks as usual and yes will do that when weather breaks .... and had some practice with tow? yet to try? will also try and test tow strength as above? see you in the ?Summer)?? Roy
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I am building a practice /(Barge) out of a cardboard box? and yes we have the skill to make it water proof as well as sink proof (Hopfully)
we have made other models this way and we will see how it goes, but it may be on the large as in width and high to be determind but about 33in long and could weight as much as we like for different classes??
well it will be OK for tests and practice will let you know ??
A waterproofed box will a good basis to practise. What you need to do though is have enough weight within it so that you can feel the change in handling of the towing vessel. Believe me, the handling does change significantly. You might know how to put your "light" vessel into any manoeuvre, but you have to relearn when towing a weight.
I'm still learning how to handle the effects %% %% .
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Hi Yoshic 48
Here is a barge you could tow & save your self some time in making your box you could pick it up at Balne Moor when you come to
visit, a small donation to the club & take it away.
John
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Roy forgot to say. barge 33" x 14"
John
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Hi Yoshic 48
Here is a barge you could tow & save your self some time in making your box you could pick it up at Balne Moor when you come to
visit, a small donation to the club & take it away.
John
Hi that may well be a good Idea if its still there when I get there? will be looking at weather and your dates just now to see just when I can get in? will notify before hand any way and I may turn up
with my tug (defiantly) also small (speed boat) encased to preserve it as I built it in the early 60s also My brother and a joint friend may come as well?? but will let (Butts) now or leave message and wait confirmation before coming Thanks?
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A waterproofed box will a good basis to practise. What you need to do though is have enough weight within it so that you can feel the change in handling of the towing vessel. Believe me, the handling does change significantly. You might know how to put your "light" vessel into any manoeuvre, but you have to relearn when towing a weight.
I'm still learning how to handle the effects %% %% .
Hi Yes that is another problem trying to find information on (Class) size (Power of pull) I did try that this week but forgot results get next sunday? also (Size) of Towed (vessel) and what overall weight for what class?? I do understand your course may be difficult with (My 1/48 scale Yorkshireman Tug) (with my not true deck fittings) but as said before It looks good to me and up to now goes quite well? would love to send you some photos but I can't get them to down load on here ? and as (Poll) offered just maybe I may come away with a barge as well?? if still there? when I get there? But I am coming sometime/ Roy and my tug is Heavy?
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Hi,
sorry have been otherwise engaged for a few weeks. Am about half way through collecting all the data for the club members tugs as regards bollard pull. Also measuring length, motor, voltage, propulsion type/size, scale and pull. When all of this is together I will post the results as of general interest but pertinently regards the size of tow each vessel is able to pull with ease and control. I will also post pictures of tugs, tows etc to give some sense of perspective. Please be patient as this takes a lot of cooperation and logistics but I do believe this information could be used by all fellow tug towers and could also be added to by other interested parties to then have a chart of comparable tugs and data.
What ever you do
Have fun
Pirate
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Hi Pirate,
Excellent work, I for one will be interested on your results/graph.
Destroyer42
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Hi,
sorry have been otherwise engaged for a few weeks. Am about half way through collecting all the data for the club members tugs as regards bollard pull. Also measuring length, motor, voltage, propulsion type/size, scale and pull. When all of this is together I will post the results as of general interest but pertinently regards the size of tow each vessel is able to pull with ease and control. I will also post pictures of tugs, tows etc to give some sense of perspective. Please be patient as this takes a lot of cooperation and logistics but I do believe this information could be used by all fellow tug towers and could also be added to by other interested parties to then have a chart of comparable tugs and data.
What ever you do
Have fun Hi (Pirate) it would be great to have that information there is some information on the net (USA) Foss Regatta) although they have some very large Tugs and (barges) I don't know if you have seen this info it could be a help? https://sosiski.com/post/jOlX2MJWkNc/r-c-model-tugboats-foss-cup-2012// you may have seen it? I am just after basics at the min so could maybe enter in the future it depends how (Clubs) are it should be Fun as well as Skill and yes there does need to be a (handicapping ) method keep up the good work will be coming to your club in warmer weather
Pirate
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https://youtu.be/HXm8CqoXTas (https://youtu.be/HXm8CqoXTas)
To illustrate what is possible, here is Steve Clubbe's video of a tow at Balne Moor with
San George in 2013 (Harry has mentioned it elsewhere on this thread).
The lead tug is a standard Robbe Happy Hunter. Fixed korts and rudders. To the best of my knowledge
the bow thruster was not working - I know it does not work now, but I'm not certain about its
condition in 2013. San George is at least 4m long and very heavy, yet Happy Hunter coped admirably.
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Hi I am building a Tug 1/48 scale the question is because I want to (Tow) and also maybe in completion Towing, I want my Tug to resemble on the outside as close to (Scale as Possible) but I want to fit (What ever I want to as a drive system as Motor size and Prop size and bow thrusters if I wish) electric of course powered with Maximum 12volts system. So a simple way of looking at this is eg: A driving test to gain a licence in a car? IS a test of (SKILL and Knowledge) No matter the Make of (CAR) (Truck in HGVs) or (Buses) or even (Trains) and Boats or (Tanks) RC Models ( Sails? Battle ships, Tugs, all manner ) should be able to participate even (NON Scale with crazy designs Race ) So That will be my approach on this build (Rope sizes) are open for discussion as yet I have not found any information only up to the competitor? Thank You for this thread hopefully I will keep an eye on it and look forwards to Finishing my (TUG)
Just a bit of an Update ? Yes have finished and lots of re hashing of Batteries, wiring, and other but I think I am happy as I can be now It seems to have a lot of power but is a bit heavy? with hashing everything Yes I have lights of my own, Horn of a sort? and believe the tug pull is about 1 and 1/2 to 2Lbs? will have to recheck, that is steady pull on scales from bank? Nice thick rope ? to hook to any other? No winch so can alter rope Length if needed? just now Waiting for friend to finish (Barge 33" ) and My home made Cardboard own design, with my brothers system of Harding and water proofing? we will see? takes awhile to do though, all will soon be ready. Good Towing to all. Thanks for the (San George ) connection.
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Hi Roy. What props do you have on the Yorkshireman?
John.
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Hi Roy. What props do you have on the Yorkshireman?
Hi John (Roy) here yes two 50mm 6 Bladed Brass the 50mm is to fit the fixed cowls with twin rubbers and a (Bow Thruster the Raboesch double brass bladed one?
I run a 12v Lead acid and a 6v lead acid so lasts and lasts? but still experimenting? because I tried two 12v at first but it was to heavy? 6v (Bow Thruster, lights, horn and rudder servo
12v runs two 800 brushed motors (MFA Torpedo Marine ) I think and a cooling fan? apparently they are lower revving than the 850 and only draw about 10amps I will be bringing it to (Balne Moor) in the summer
but will organize that with (Butts)
John.
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Hi Roy. Could you post a photo of your props please.
John.
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Not seen 6 blade on a tug before do show
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Hi Roy. looking at your pulling poundage I think you need to change your props to kort thruster props the props you describe are
more for a Sub. photo attached.
John
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Hi Roy. Could you post a photo of your props please.
John.
Hi John ?? well it didn't go nor did my message so start again ? ill try sending you through email if I can get it private message? and it was tested last week and ( steady pull from bank = 2lbs No snatch) but the scales were not up to much?
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Name Length Scale V Motor Prop' B' pull
[/size]Southampton 22" 1:32 7.2 2 x 280 K 25mm 0.32
[/size]44 31" 1:48 7.2 600 50mm 1.30
[/size]Tow Knee 20" 1:24 12 555 45mm 1.35
[/size]Stan tug 24" 1:32 12 2 x T4 K 40mm 1.8
[/size]Wrangler 33" 1:32 12 T 12 K 55mm 2.3
[/size]Happy hunter 40" 1:50 12 2 x 700 K 60mm 3.2
[/size]Dutch river 34" 1:32 12 2 x 555 K 60mm 3.5
[/size]Knowurrys 34" 1:20 12 2 x 850 Z 65mm 3.5
[/size]Giorgi Vatev 34" 1:20 12 2 x 600 K 60mm 3.8
[/size]Rachem 24" 1:32 12 900 K 65mm 5.6
[/size]Kashed 27" 1:32 12 2 x 900 K 65mm 5.78
[/size]
[/size]As promised so far, with some five other tugs to be measured but due to the weather etc moan moan, the HEMBC fleet has not all been through scrutiny! I am sure someone could make a very nice chart of the above but my thoughts and consequential actions are to make our tug tow this year a tad more easier and open to more vessels/captains. So as can be seen there is a two way divide or maybe even three way.;
[/size]up to 2 pound
[/size]2 to 4 pound
[/size]over 4 pound.
[/size]This will hopefully be a good handicap system together with a opening of the competition.
[/size]What do you think?
[/size]Perhaps Mayhem members could add to the chart list with there own vessels or other club members tugs!!? This may help you when in the early phase of planning your new tug build to have a better 'guesstimate' (Star trek 'Data' comment) as to drive voltage etc combinations.
[/size]Wishing you all well
[/size]Happy tug tow competitions all.
[/size]
[/size]Pirate
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By the by, I have a 6 bladed prop, a Sitek Kort prop and a Prop shop prop all the same size so will soon put each on in turn to my tug and try its bollard pull, there will be slight external factors but I think the results will be useful. If not ... then please tell me. As this question as to what prop etc in a Kort often rears its head and it needs in my mind some sort of data/validification.
Regards
Pirate
Ps Moderator if you feel either of my last messages need a new thread (I have endeavored to follow the flavor of this one) please move it so to. Thank you
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Hi All,
An interesting debate to seek the views of other clubs on this subject, it's something to explore at club level in order to resurrect this declining sector of model boating and hopefully seek to discuss this with our current committee, with a view to enhancing the scale section with emphasis on having fun, which hopefully will drive interest from members to get involved.
Destroyer42
Hi Guys have had a bad time this year and lack of a car this year as well all to change again just this week ??hopefully ? and I was looking forwards to coming to (blane moor?) even to view? maybe if there is still something on the calendar (September?) Well an question not solved yet In any of the competitions On towing (1) (2) or (3) is there rules that cover diffrent size (Tugs) ie: a 48" scale a 72" scale and a 32" scale? running together as a Team ?? and are there different weights for the (barges) being towed at different sizes I know Ive been out of it for awhile but thanks to every one and hope to see some of you soon. Roy
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Name Length Scale V Motor Prop' B' pull
[/size]Southampton 22" 1:32 7.2 2 x 280 K 25mm 0.32
[/size]44 31" 1:48 7.2 600 50mm 1.30
[/size]Tow Knee 20" 1:24 12 555 45mm 1.35
[/size]Stan tug 24" 1:32 12 2 x T4 K 40mm 1.8
[/size]Wrangler 33" 1:32 12 T 12 K 55mm 2.3
[/size]Happy hunter 40" 1:50 12 2 x 700 K 60mm 3.2
[/size]Dutch river 34" 1:32 12 2 x 555 K 60mm 3.5
[/size]Knowurrys 34" 1:20 12 2 x 850 Z 65mm 3.5
[/size]Giorgi Vatev 34" 1:20 12 2 x 600 K 60mm 3.8
[/size]Rachem 24" 1:32 12 900 K 65mm 5.6
[/size]Kashed 27" 1:32 12 2 x 900 K 65mm 5.78
[/size]
[/size]As promised so far, with some five other tugs to be measured but due to the weather etc moan moan, the HEMBC fleet has not all been through scrutiny! I am sure someone could make a very nice chart of the above but my thoughts and consequential actions are to make our tug tow this year a tad more easier and open to more vessels/captains. So as can be seen there is a two way divide or maybe even three way.;
[/size]up to 2 pound
[/size]2 to 4 pound
[/size]over 4 pound.
[/size]This will hopefully be a good handicap system together with a opening of the competition.
[/size]What do you think?
[/size]Perhaps Mayhem members could add to the chart list with there own vessels or other club members tugs!!? This may help you when in the early phase of planning your new tug build to have a better 'guesstimate' (Star trek 'Data' comment) as to drive voltage etc combinations.
[/size]Wishing you all well
[/size]Happy tug tow competitions all.
[/size]
[/size]Pirate
Hi long time out you have a lot of numbers there? as before My tug is a (Yorkshireman) bow to stern 34" and 9" beam as kit came ?BUT it must weigh about ??13kg ? its heavy to lift in? Bow thruster has (Kort) but not steerable both props forwards or backwards with just rudders moving? I have also modded the deck height at the stern ? funnels are not in the right place and inside is full strong fixed bar with tow rope attached (No winch) last time pull was ?2lbs and a bit did try to load photo on here but something up and I have put my own name on it (Ordinary Man) Ill let you know and NOT built in Hull built in (Rugby) by me? hopefully asap trying to view the club and if possible bring tug with brother and friend as we are trying to make a team (maybe) good hunting to all and most of all no matter any rules have fun with your boats No matter what Roy
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Hi Yoshic48 yes 16th September for the Svitzer event come along with your team, you can lone a tug if you are not happy with your own, or we can put you in another team with people that have done it before but please come and enjoy your selves
John.
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Hi Yoshic48 yes 16th September for the Svitzer event come along with your team, you can lone a tug if you are not happy with your own, or we can put you in another team with people that have done it before but please come and enjoy your selves
John.
Hi (Poll) yes Thanks for the invite I have replied by butting into (Butts) ha ha ha well I have been in contact with him for awhile so yes I will bring my tug so (comments can be made) but I wont take offence at anything will be bringing my brother and our joint friend Graham? An WE are still learning the trade of Towing ( but not modling?) I have asked (Butts) to send reply but think we have it sorted will try to get there ?? around 10.30AM? but will probably be late as coming from (Rugby Town ) in the midlands and possibly have to leave reasonably early as to get back?? its a bit of a (wreckie) to ask all the unanswered questions? from people who know? about these things ? like quick release ropes on the tow? as if the vessel being towed sinks in deep water? and does that mean it takes the (TUG) with it to the bottom? well would like to meet you as well as a lot of the other members? as Butts knows... my name Roy Thanks again have fun on the rope.
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Hi Roy. Yes we will be pleased to me you & your towing partners, you don't have to be here spot on 10.30 just take your time &get here safe.
Cheers.
John